“You saved John’s life. Why can’t that be enough?”“Because it’s not.”
“Because it’s going to be you, Jack.”
“I won’t leave you. I will never leave you again.”
OK, a few weeks ago I wrote a blubbery and passionate response to “Ab Aeterno,” because it was one of the most epic hours of television I’d ever seen. A friend of mine emailed me right before tonight’s episode and said, “Make sure you have Kleenex handy” (he works at the TV station and gets to see the ep a few hours early) and I thought, “Uh oh...” But then it opened with John Locke in a hospital bed and Jack standing over him grinning and I thought, Oh! Maybe he meant tears of joy!!
NO. He most certainly did NOT mean tears of joy. The writers took out not one, not two, but FOUR major characters in one fell swoop. Sayid, like Titus in Edward Gorey’s “Gashlycrumb Tinies” poem, flew into bits. (WAAAAAH!!) And like a certain major character in the series finale of Buffy who’s sort of cut in half with a sword in the midst of battle and it happens so fast we have no time to mourn, it HAPPENED SO FAST WE HAD NO TIME TO MOURN!! There was no sad music, no montage of Sayidness, no characters saying, “Poor Sayid,” no tears, no tearful goodbyes, no body... NOTHING. Oh, Sayid. Let’s pause for a moment before dwelling on the major death scene and say goodbye to this character (and also lend our condolences to redeem147 and Joan...). This is a man who was a torturer, but he tortured himself more than he ever did anyone else. He loved with his whole being, and he hated what he did for a living. He died, and then came back an empty shell of his former self (perhaps THAT was his true death back then?) and only when Desmond talked to him did we see the tiniest shaft of light shine out of his eyes once again. He remembered who he used to be, he remembered that he loved, and he loved mightily, and he spared Desmond, and his final act is a heroic one, jumping on the grenade, so to speak, to save everyone else. Yes, the old Sayid was in there, knowing how a bomb worked, knowing he couldn’t do anything about it, and putting himself before the others. From the moment they arrived on that island, Sayid did everything in his power to get them off. And now, in his final act, he ensured that some of them would live to maybe see their way off the island some day.And then, Lapidus was conked unconscious and we can probably presume he died, unless he washes up on shore next week. Don’t count him out yet, because he certainly didn’t get any final heroic scenes, but on the other hand, he was peripheral compared to everyone else on that sub, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he were dead.
But... that scene. Oh, that scene. For me, the most painful death has always been Charlie’s. We watched his final act, we saw the water pour in around him, we saw him cross himself and say goodbye to Desmond, and then float upwards in quiet death. The piano, the mournful violin, it all came together in a spectacular feat of sadness that I was gutted. But this? This topped it. OK, maybe, as I wrote in my notes (and then my brother immediately emailed me after) it was a little too Titanic, with Rose letting go of Jack’s hand. But I don’t care. It was beautiful. And YES I kept thinking, “Oh my GOD if you both die, then Ji Yeon will grow up an orphan and she will be raised by the Paiks. THE PAIKS!!!” But were they really ever going to get off that island anyway? Probably not. The beauty in that moment was how they died. I was really unhappy when they were reunited and spoke English (??!!) instead of their native Korean, a language that Jin would still be thinking in, and one that Sun has used almost exclusively for the past three years. So when it was clear she was trapped, I was alarmed, and then when they started speaking in Korean, I knew it was all over, and I started sobbing. SOBBING. I was whipping Kleenexes out of the box and really LOUDLY crying, with my husband chuckling on the couch (he has NO HEART. NONE. See, if a character on The Wire died, he’d have been in tears... but he’s never had that attachment to people on Lost. He said, and I quote, “Poor Nikki and her attachment to fictional characters.” Oh yeah, buddy? Let’s see how you handle it if anything ever happens to Coach Taylor on Friday Night Lights... you will be a ball of goo on the floor). Anyway... And then they vowed they’d never be apart, and then the camera pulled back on the sub... the piano music, and then... the hands. Oh my GOD they had to show the hands. What a beautiful, beautiful image, but when the hands pulled away from each other I cried and cried some more. I wanted them to somehow be entwined for eternity. So I cried even harder. And when I finally got my sobs under control, HURLEY started sobbing and I was a mess all over again. Oh, Lost... four major characters in one go.
Why was I crying so much? I was crying for Sayid, for Jin and Sun, for Ji Yeon, a tiny bit for Frank (love the character, but it wasn’t tear-inducing, really)... but also for the end. This show only has 4 hours left (well, as of tonight, don’t know if you hear this, the finale has been extended by a full half hour, so we have four and a half hours left!) and I don’t know if I can handle these goodbyes. I don’t want to say goodbye to the characters, to the story, to the fine writing week after week... I don’t want to see the island for one last time, and know there’s no more Lost. The speculation will be over... but I LOVE the speculation!! I have to say goodbye to the questions, the mysteries, the clues, the hints. To Damon and Carlton’s skilled crafting of this series, to the collection of writers, to everything that Lost is about. I’m so excited to see it end, yet I don’t want to say goodbye.
And tonight’s episode was a forced goodbye, as if a trial run for the finale. Oh god... can I make it there?!
Highlights:
• Jack saying to Locke, “I think you’re a candidate.”
• Sawyer grabbing the gun away from “Doughboy.” HAHA!!! That was AWESOME.
• Bernard again!! We may never see them on the island again, but I’m so happy to see them in the sideways world.
• “Memory serves you were flirting with my wife Rose when I was in the bathroom.” LOL!
• Sun putting the ring back on Jin’s finger. Aw...
• Hurley when he hears Smokey: “And we’re dead.”
• Jack unlocking the cages and saying, “I’m with him.” WICKED line.
• Smokey taking out the two guys by the plane without even batting an eyelash. Oh my god that was epic.
• Kate shot!! ZOMG!
The Numbers:
Did I mention 4 major people died in this episode?? Wah.
Did You Notice?:
• So in this episode Jack seems to be putting together that something odd is happening. He hasn’t been hit by true love or a near-death experience, but he’s just using his own powers of deduction and, methinks, a faith he has in this world that he doesn’t have in the original timeline. In that one he’d think it was coincidence, but in this world he’s starting to think maybe they were on the plane for a reason. The new Jack on the island seems to have faith and a belief that things happen for a reason, and that hard-fought idea is something that the SW Jack seems to already possess. Can he put it together without falling in love or getting mowed down by Desmond?
• Sawyer gets the upper hand, but gives it up for Kate, exactly the same way he did when they were breaking rocks and he gave it because Juliet threatened to hurt Kate.
• Bernie’s still a dentist in this reality!
• There’s something odd about the way Bernard remembers Anthony Cooper, writes down the name, and when Jack says, “It was three years ago... you remember that?” he says, “Of course I do, Jack.”
• “I hope you find what you’re looking for.” Again, Bernard seems to know something more here. (OK, and I also really wanted Bono to jump out of one of those doors and start singing!)
• As Smokey is talking to Jack, you see the smoke from the campfire billowing behind him.
• Smokey is lying to Jack: We already know he can’t actually kill anyone, and he tells Jack that he spared them when he could have killed them.
• The scene of Jin and Sun chatting in the cages is so sweet. The reunion just didn’t get to me the way I wanted it to (mostly because I thought they were about to be zapped by that fence!!) and so this episode fulfilled the reunion fantasy I really wanted for so long.
• As soon as Chip is killed by Smokey, I started yelling, “Zoe!! RUN OUTSIDE!!! YOU ARE NEEDED BY THE CAGES.” ;)
• Jack being in the nursing home seemed to be him forcing Locke to be fixed... the other timeline Jack was coming through in this scene.
• When Helen went to get Anthony I said to my husband, “So is he going to be senile and drooling?” And then... he was. To which my husband replied, “Oh YEAH! In the sideways world, Anthony gets his!!” Only to find out he’s some sweet beloved man here.
• Ah, the old C4. You know, if I were Kate on the island, I’d take one look at that and say, “Oh for god’s sakes, if I see ONE more packet of that stuff, SERIOUSLY...”
• When Locke is explaining to everyone what could happen with the C4, he says, “Boom,” the same way Desmond says it while explaining the bomb in the freighter to Jin and Michael in S4.
• I’m sure it was obvious to most of us the moment Sawyer said, “I’m sorry for not trusting you” that he didn’t trust Smokey as far as he could throw him.
• OK, and right at this commercial break they had a CTV station ID with Josh Holloway looking into the camera and smirking that I’ve NEVER seen before and it made me melt. Holy freakin’ wow.
• Locke saying, “Push the button” and “I wish you had believed me” made me squeal. The first is obvious, the second was John Locke’s suicide note to Jack.
• Jack gets an Apollo bar out of the vending machine similar to the one Jacob got one from when he gave it to Jack.
• Christian died exactly the same way in both worlds. Significant?
• That rosewood box that Claire and Jack look at had a mirror in it, and notice at first it showed both of them, and then the camera turns so Claire disappeared and it was only Jack. A foreshadowing of something happening to Claire Bear?
• The first ones who run to the sub are the four Listies and Lapidus.
• The guy on the sub looked like Radzinsky! For a second I forgot we were in the same timeline and thought maybe it was him.
• Smokey said earlier that he couldn’t travel over water... I think he meant in his smoke monster form, but Jack and Sawyer seem to think he’s like the Wicked Witch of the West.
• Aw... my heart broke when they abandoned poor Claire AGAIN.
• OK, I know that technically, Jack was right and Sawyer was wrong and by Sawyer pulling the wires when he did, without consulting anyone, at least four people died. BUT... considering the last time Jack gave a big speech and was SO sure that he was right, Juliet died as a result, you can’t blame Sawyer for doing his own thing in this scene.
• “THERE IS NO SAYID!” Oh, SADNESS!!!
• John Locke is momentarily distracted as Jin walks by, as if he knows him.
• Like in the other world, Locke has an African-American male nurse.
• When Jack talks to Locke in the hallway, there’s a “Caution: Oxygen” sign behind them, right after the scene where everyone needed oxygen.
• When Jack tells Locke that he went to see his father, I just thought, “GOD, Jack, you have totally overstepped your bounds here...” I know he wants to fix him, but he has to understand that Locke has free will, and should be allowed to exercise it, even if he is punishing himself for what he did to his father.
• What was with Jack using all the catchphrases there? “What happened, happened. And... you can let it go. Come on, John, if we don’t live together, we’ll die alone. I mean, son of a BITCH! This is the beginning of the end for you. I’m a man of science, but also a man of faith... fine, if you’re leaving, fine. I’ll see you in another life, bruthah.”
• I am NOT choosing sides here, but simply pointing out that... did you notice when Hurley and Kate hit the shore, she immediately ran to Jack, grabbing him and upset that she couldn’t find him, but doesn’t seem to notice Sawyer bleeding out on the beach?
So Many Questions...
• Widmore’s list has Ford, the Kwons, and Reyes. What is his list? Considering two of the people on it are dead... does this mean bad news for Hurley and Sawyer?? NO NO NO NO!!!!
• “He’s coming.” Who is he? Is Widmore preparing for The Rapture or something? Is Jacob returning the same way Jesus returned?
• Seriously, WHY are Jin and Sun speaking English??!! It’s really bugging me. But I must admit, having them speak Korean was more powerful at the end because they spoke English up to that point, BUT then it comes off as contrived, since there’s no logical reason why they would speak in English when both of them are more at ease in that language.
• What is the significance of the rosewood box that Christian left to Claire?
• How is Claire staying at a motel if she gave Kate her credit card? (Assuming she had a second one?)
• How many people did Widmore bring with him? Every time you turn around there’s another dozen shooting at everyone.
• I don’t know anything about submarines, but why do they dive for only 30 seconds and it’ll take 5 minutes to go back up?
• “Because it’s going to be you, Jack.” What the WHAT?! Did Sayid just reveal who the candidate actually is? Because my money is on YES. I think most people have been torn between Jack and Desmond, and I’ve thought it would be Jack from the beginning of the season (though I’d be equally happy if it were a surprise).
• Locke says he’s off to finish what he started. What does that mean? He’s going to drive the rest of them to kill each other? He’s going to kill Desmond? (NOOOO!!!)
Me tomorrow:
I’m on Facebook! Come and find me. I am here. :)
Tomorrow listen in to Marshall and Forbes on The Ocean 98.5 in Victoria, BC at 7:10 a.m. local time, 10:10 a.m. EST. Go here and click on the Listen Now button if you’re out of the listening area.
And tomorrow at noon I will NOT be participating in the Globe and Mail Lost chat from noon to 1pm EST (I will be on a plane to NYC... I’m also missing an opportunity to guest-host Innerspace, ARGH) but it will still be happening! Go here to ask questions and comment.
And finally, listen to KEX 1190 at 6:20 p.m. PST, 9:20 p.m. EST where I’ll be on the Mark & Dave show (and they’re big Lost fans so it’s always fun). Go here and click the Listen Now button.
Next week:
A preview that didn’t actually reveal a THING (all old material) but I know what it’s going to focus on. Let’s just say it might be THE episode we’ve been waiting for. (Please don’t kill off anyone, please don’t kill off anyone...)
476 comments:
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Throughout the second half of “The Candidate”, I kept thinking about the Nikki Staffords and Doc Jensens of the world, who actually have to TAKE NOTES during such a moving and intense drama. Nikki, I appreciate and am very thankful that you do. And I’m glad I don’t have to. I’m just letting this episode soak in through my pores. (I was literally shaking for about the last 10 minutes. Better now.) Rest in peace, Sun, Jin, and Sayid. (And Frank?)
By the way, Jorge Garcia is a guest on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.
I too cried for the death of our well loved Sun, Jin, and Sayid but mostly as you said for the upcoming end. I think it just hit me tonight that this wont be on anymore.
Lost's homage to The Poseidon Adventure will return after these messages...
I offer my initial reactions before reading Nikki's post, with apologies, since I'm not sure how much longer I'll be up.
The best lines of the night:
Kate: "What are you doing here?"
Smokey: tika-tika-tika-tika-tika
Jack: "I'm with him."
Jack: "There is no Sayid!"
Other interesting dialogue, mostly of the repeating-themes variety (which some folks feel, understandably, is getting laid on a bit too thickly):
Jack: "I think you're a candidate."
John: "A candidate for what?"
Jack: "If you give me a shot, Mr. Locke, I think that... that I could fix you."
John: "Push the button... I wish you had believed me..."
Jack: "What happened, happened."
There was more that didn't get written down and has since been forgotten.
Some general thoughts on stuff that popped out at me:
My condolences to the DURALSAC —
Dames United Regarding Ardent Love of Sayid Amalgamated Collective.
Very cute Mirror Shot of the Night!
I'm assuming that the tune played by the music box was what Claire sang to Kate in the pit at the Temple, which I recall people mentioning was something that Kate had sung to Aaron, but what import the song and/or the music box have otherwise I don't know. For someone so detail-oriented, I'm constantly surprised by how much of this aspect of Lost goes right by me, but that's why I come here.
You know, I've seen what it takes for pregnant women to negotiate themselves into and out of chairs, and I have a hard time believing that any would wear a miniskirt of the "length" that Claire is wearing. Maybe she wanted Aaron to get an early peek his Uncle Jack?
I'm sorry to see Sun and Jin go, but at least they went together. And I don't just mean that from a romantic perspective. Lost hasn't ever been called out for misogyny that I recall, but well under half of its characters are women, and for only Jin to survive when there was no good reason for it not to have been Sun who survived instead would've struck me as sexist. Of course, Sun and Jin breathing their last right after Sayid went boom (and Ilana before that, though she wasn't a major character) leaves us with mostly lily-white, all American candidates to take over for Jacob, himself fair-skinned, fair-haired, and more fluent in American English than one would expect from an entity who, if not ancient, at least dates back to the time of slave galleys traveling to the New World.
Jack facing the ocean at the end of the episode struck me very much as one of those patented scenes where the leader feels he must remain separate from those he leads. Maybe Jack was just giving Kate, Hurley, and himself space, but I think the message was that he didn't want the others to see him get emotional, and that in turn made me wonder if Jacob didn't go through something similar once upon a time. We've heard him and Esau speak of humanity as a breed apart and perhaps below, but we've also heard Esau speak of his past in human terms, and it's possible that they're either the last of or just disconnected from their own race, be it gods or angels or extraterrestrials or whatever. Jack had just been embraced by Kate, yet instead of consoling her he stepped away, perhaps embracing on still another level the destiny that he feels awaits him.
Good luck, Ji Yeon!
Okay, I was tearing at the Jin and Sun thing, but LOST it completely with Hurley's sobs, but you know what made me cry the hardest of all?
Your beautiful soliloquy on this post.
*sob*
Back with coherence at some point.
The opening scene in episode one of season one is Jack waking up after the crash. He is THE ONE. Emotionally wrenching episode, full of sadness and dread.
OK, real quick now!
How weird was it for Claire and Jack to say "Hello Dr.Shephard - Hello Miss Littleton"
I mean...your dad just died and you kinda had a big dramatic greeting and hell even you and Bernard were on first name basis within 25 seconds of meeting but she gets the Miss Littleton?
Also, when MiB grabbed that sweet 80's calculator watch..."I can morph into a smoke monster and kill everyone, I can be two places at once but one thing I can't do is basic division on the fly!"
How weird was the whole bomb thing? MiB is apparently a clairvoyant (getting the watch before he "found" the bomb)but he failed but he failed to see how the submarine scene would actually pan out.
I was also perplexed by the whole unfolding of the Cooper story. Helen says "Leave it" and then shows Jack Anthony and then what...they just had a staring contest (Cooper won, btw)
she never told Jack the story?
"Leave it alone, Jack!"
"Why?"
"Because his dad is randomly catatonic - don't you see, I have explained everything!"
Sayid...I can't even talk about it.
Oh and Jin! You dummy! And Sun! I don't know about you but if I were dying and my husband was there and he was going to die if he stayed and being all "I love you!" I would say then love me by staying alive and raising our children! Jesus! The poor kid...Sun had no siblings, nor Jin, Jin's dad is 800 years old and Sun's is evil. Nice plan, guys. And Jack - what a doof. We said LEAVE Jack - hello, we are dying together here, you can stop pointing that 4 hit oxygen tank at us now and go.
Joan, I think we heard you shriek. Just sayin'
VW: consido - to stop thinking about something right in the middle of it. "Well, I was going to consido- never mind"
Everything is getting less cryptic and more resolution. Even your recaps, Nikki, are asking less and less questions, little doubt left in what we're seeing. Not that it's a bad thing. I definitely think there will be more emotional stuff coming through (as intense as tonight?) in the last recaps.
Now for what I jolted down!
And then... THREE DIED IN TWO MINUTES?
Whoa... talk about being shocking before the finale!
1. Jack starting to realize the 815 connection with Bernard, Claire and we knew about Locke.
2. What happened, happened! There definitely was a reason why Locke was in a wheelchair. He couldn't figure out why but there was a reason.
3. Sayid: "At least you didn't have to paddle."
4. Kate is not on Widmore's list - she was not listed as one of the six in Ab Aeterno enhanced! But she was not scratched in the lighthouse.
5. Bernard talking reminding Jack how he flirted with Rose.
6. Locke getting everyone on the sub with the C$ - I would take that as proof that he is indeed evil!
7. Locke: "Push the button" -- bleed through, Desmond's intentions!
8. The Sayid sacrifice and telling Jack about Desmond, saying: "It's going to be you Jack."
9. Sun and Jin dying together, that was heart--wrenching... just so sad.
10. Locke: "What makes you think letting go is so easy?" Jack: "It's not."
Reverse scenario from Season 2 dialogue between the two:
Jack: "Why do you find it so easy to believe." Locke: "It's never been easy."
11. And then there were four... 3 Candidates, 1 Kate and 1 Desmond!
Q: Why did Christian wanted Claire to have the music box with the mirror? Did he know maybe Claire would need to see through, get through? Magical box.
So far as we know, Christian's life has been identical in both realities, he died the exact same way too.
Too bad Sawyer didn't read a book before deciding to yank the wires out.
Nikki you're spot on wrt Sayid's death. Come on, give us a chance to appreciate his sacrifice and mourn him before you pop off another one.
I too thought the sub guy looked like Radzinsky. For a split second I thought we were back in Dharma times.
Nikki I figure Jin has been speaking English for 3 years, probably exclusively (unless he taught little Charlotte Korean), and Sun had conversations with Widmore as well as the O6 in English. So I'm willing to overlook the producers going to English in this case.
NOT FRANK! I did think he was going to get his when he was the nearest to the plane, so his sub death wasn't as shocking, but it's still upsetting.
oh... Blam, there is at least one Hispanic left, Hurley, so... yeah! maybe that's where the show is heading. Just saying.
(but my friend had the same reaction you did)
I think I'd feel better about Frank's death if he'd been better used as a character, or if we'd seen him in the flash-sideways, or if he'd had a proper flashback. So much awesome potential, utterly wasted, but at least he died in some way other than foolishly bouncing around sticks of unstable dynamite or waving a gun at Richard Alpert.
At least Jin and Sun were re-united, and knew how much they meant to each other, and Jin got to at least see Ji Yeon (poor thing - sniffle). I think Jin knew neither he nor Jack could make it out without oxygen. He chose to stay with Sun, and, in that context, it was beautiful. His sacrifice made sure Jack and Sawyer got out.
Sayid's death was redemptive and heroic. Charlie 2.0.
Sorry to say, my hard-gained affection for Sawyer is gone. Perhaps it shouldn't be, but it is.
Jack is made of win this season.
This was totally tragic. I will miss Jin, Sun, & Sayid dearly. And yes, Hurley breaking down into sobs was gut-wrenching. Jorge, you rock.
But for some reason, and I have no idea why, Lapidus' (apparent) death is hitting me hardest of all. Maybe because he didn't get a big resolution or development, and it happened so suddenly to him.
So, Nikki, are you saying that the finale will seriously be 2 and a half hours long? Holy maccaroni! Is this true? Should I bake more treats for my party?
I thought the music box was Rousseau's from 'Solitary'. The one that Sayid fixed.
I think the significance of the music box is the song it played. It's "Catch a Falling Star", which is what Christian sang to Claire when she was a baby and what she wanted sung to Aaron by his adoptive parents (and what Kate sang to Aaron off-island).
Also, did anyone notice that awesome old lady in the nursing him that Jack is making eyes at while Helen rolls Anthony over? :D
Kate also had no real reaction to Head Injury Sawyer either, she's all "Do you think I'm pretty Jack? I mean, really, now that Sun's gone, am I the prettiest? Tell me I'm smart."
All this time I was just watching for Sayid, so I'm giving up and not watching anymore.
Okay, I lie, but it felt good to say it. :(
Was I the only one who resented seeing that other Jin with the roses. "YOU'RE NOT MY JIN."
I was so upset about Sayid I didn't even think about Frank. And for me Sun and Jin were anti-climatic.
SAYID!!
I always said he was my Lost Spike.
All right. Attempting to gather my thoughts, because I won't be able to sleep for a while anyway.
Oh. My. Werd.
"At least you didn't have to paddle." hahaha! Zombayid regained his sense of humor. *sob*
Bernard was TOTALLY creepy and knew WAY too much. He was acting like Desmond. Creepy stalkery crazy.
I have been saying since the beginning of the season that FLocke (I'm sorry I just can't call him Locke anymore. He isn't.) was trying to kill all the candidates and every time he said he wanted them to come with him I would add, "or die." I didn't think it would come so true, though. *sob*
Jin and Sun in the cages - that was definitely the real reunion for me.
After FLocke killed the people at the plane I said that no matter how creepy people might think Jacob is, MiB is so evil. He kills constantly and with no regret. My sister said, "Well of course he's evil. Nikki would never believe that anyone was good after they ordered someone to kill Desmond." bwa hahaha!
Catch a Falling Star! I need to look up the entire lyrics to that song. There's got to be some sort of clue in it after all the times it's been referenced.
Claire is more and more Rousseau like
I'm just glad that Sayid died as himself, not as a zombie.
And that's the lot for now. *crawls away to cry again*
VW: valke - nickname for the valkyries
@Blam: The DURALSAC is shattered and even Jack will never be able to fix us. Oh, man...
I can't believe they killed him. And they killed him a lot.
The scene with Jin & Sun was incredible - very beautiful and very, very sad.
But I didn't lose it 'til Hurley did.
It was all over for me when Sayid started running with that bomb. I wanted time to STOP. But it didn't stop. It went so fast. And then my waterworks wouldn't stop.
Sun and Jin...there are no words for this. My daughter was SO sad about it. She just kept asking, "Are they going to die?" I didn't have the heart to tell her. They were her favorite characters and their reunion on The Last Recruit made her day. What a difference one episode makes.
I literally didn't see or hear the last 10 minutes of the ep. due to my sobbing. My son SWEARS he will not watch the remaining episodes with me because of my reaction. Fine by me, as long as I get the projection TV.
I can't comment on anything of note. Nothing. Maybe sleep will help. I've been thinking all along that I didn't want a Sideways World ending for the series, but I'm starting to change my mind...Sideways Sayid, Jin and Sun are better than none.
Nikki, I have finished reading your blog and I am sooo past my bedtime. I will have more tomorrow, I think. However, I did want to say that I loved this ep - because of what happened.
Sayid was back and died as the hero he always wanted to be by sacrificing himself to save the others. Does that mean he is DEAD? This is LOST we are talking about and with previous speculation re. the Sideways world, maybe dying in the Island world does not mean being dead in the Sideways world. We have yet to see if it will still be in existence once the show comes to an end. I hope so as I want Sayid to get his heart's desire and be the person he believes he could be.
Jin and Sun... ... ... sorry, was still crying my eyes out. So beautiful and so emotional. This show can wring it out of me. I realize that people won't like Jin staying with Sun because they have a child and it would be nice for one of them to be there for her. But all the great love stories are about sacrifice - there's that word again - and commitment. These two were committed to each other with a love that was strong and not to be broken. To rise up to such emotion and strength of character, to know that this is the one person who you are meant to be with, for whom you have travelled literally through time and space for... No greater sacrifice than this. I love these two and I am also hoping that whatever waits them in the Sideways world, if it continues to exist, will bring them the happiness they deserve with each other and with their daughter.
Of course saying that - this is LOST and is dead really DEAD?
K - must go bed go or will be totally out of sorts for work tomorrow. More then... Night all.
OH...MY...GOSH!I need my caps to be as big as this page to really show how I felt about this episode!
BEST EPISODE EVERRRRRRR! I, too was crying like a little baby! First, my hands went to my mouth when Kate got shot! I truly thought she was a gonner because of where she was shot! I could have sworn it was right in the heart! Whew!
Something has been bugging me for a looooooong time~how in the world did Jin learn to speak English so fluently? I mean, he just all of a sudden one day started talking like the rest of us! Odd!
Also, you wrote about Sun & Jin speaking English. I think the writers did this so we could concentrate on them instead of reading what they were saying. That has always been distracting to me. I'm kind of glad they did it this way.
I was a blubbering baby when I knew that it was Jin & Sun's time. I still get choked up. I did when I read your post, Nikki, & I am as I write this! It's just so sad!
Poor Sayid! Maybe he will be with Nadia, now. He atoned for his sins, in a sense, by paying the ultimate sacrifice!
Oh, Lapidus! You were one of my favorites! I will miss you so! But,
he could be back. I doubt it. But, one can dream!
Doughboy! Ya gotta love Sawyer & his nicknames!(There is a little girl in my granddaughters' storytime whose name is Sawyer! I think of him everytime I see her little nametag!)
I'm with you, Nikki! I wish Zoe would run right out into the path of ol' smokey! She gives me the creeps!
When you were questioning 'who' was coming, I think Widmore means Smokey.
I think Evangeline & Jorge were really crying! I don't think it was fake! Wouldn't you?!
You know, I really would have not been too upset if Sun & Jin were 'offed' earlier in the series, because they weren't my most favorite characters, but it still made me cry when they died. I just look back & realize that the 'powers that be' made all the right decisions about who goes & who stays. It has really worked!
If THIS episode isn't the one they enter for emmy consideration(unless the finale kicks ass, which it WILL!)they are nuts! If this SHOW isn't nominated for an emmy, I will blow my stack! Superb season, superb storylines!!!
Oh! As for the numbers? Did you notice the time on the watch when Sawyer pulled out the wires? 1:31. I notice that 3 is used a lot. Why?
ANYway, 1+3=4. Juuuuust thought I would mention that.
I am with Marebabe! Nikki, you are the best! You are so thorough with each episode! You find things that I don't notice! Bless your heart! I had tears when you were talking about the show ending! So bittersweet! I told my husband about how you wrote about after this month, when we turn the calendar pages we won't be anticipating LOST anymore. It will be over. He thought that was a very good point.
Oh! I am soooooooooo glad that Cooper got his 'comeuppance', as my mom would say! I almost cheered when I saw that little weasle as a vegetable! Yippee Skippee!!!
HOW on earth would Bernard know about Locke's & his dad's condition if he is a dentist? I think Nikki stated that he was a dentist?
Well, I just think this was a great episode & I canNOT wait til next week! Did I read it right? Is the finale an extra 30 minutes? Yee haw! I honestly believe it will blow all other series finales out of the water in the ratings!
Namaste!
Nikki,
I love your reviews, but I think your Jack hate is blinding you when you defend Sawyer here. If Jack is to be assigned blame for Juliet's death, then Sawyer gets the blame for Sun, Jin, Sayid, and Lapidus.
I remember last year when many people were blogging about how Sawyer was a much better leader than Jack because he did such a good job for 3 years with Dharma, I thought we'd see Sawyer make a major mistake in leadership before we were through and I think tonight was it. I don't dislike the character of Sawyer or Jack, but I think nobody is right 100% of the time on LOST.
I am seriously upset with the writers for killing Sayid. Of all the remaining characters on the show, he has been dealt the worst hand: working for the Republican guard and being forced to torture people, with all the emotional fallout that had for him; losing Nadia, finding Shannon, losing Shannon, finding Nadia, losing Nadia; being killed on the island and zombified...only to end up being blown to bits as he nobly sacrifices himself for the sake of his friends - couldn't they ever give the guy just a little break? And couldn't they have killed Sawyer instead?
And then to dismiss his death so quickly, to have the last part of the episode so crammed together that we didn't even really get a decent death scene? No fair.
And then, right after that - Sun and Jin (almost as son as they were reunited, too. Couldn't they have had just a bit more time together?) dying together, leaving that poor sweet child at the mercy of the Paiks...so, so wrong.
If they kill Hurley I will never forgive them.
Rainier those are some of my favorite words: "And couldn't they have killed Sawyer instead?"
LoyallyLost Jin spent 3 years in 1970s Dharma where no one (presumably) could speak Korean so he had to learn to speak English fluently to communicate with the others. I'm sure he had help from his friends.
Whew! That was intense (understatement, right). A few quick things then back for more later.
I was also thinking of Ji Yeon during the Kwon death scene. I really hope we get maybe some kind epilogue where someone (Sawyer, Kate, Hurley, I dunno) visits her after all is said and done and becomes a surrogate parent or something.
I totally thought Kate took one to the heart when she was shot.
Jack has Juliet, and now Sawyer has his own leadership screwup. Hopefully now everyone will be on the same page.
Anyone get a sense that maybe Widmore and FLocke are in this together after all? The timing of the attack on the sub seemed awfully convienant.
Another outrigger and still no resolution to outrigger shootout from last season. They're just teasing us, aren't they?
I wonder where Ben Richard and Miles are at?
Thanks Joan, your comments on Kate ended the evening with uproarious laughter.
I was just hit with my fantasy version of how Lost ends.
Remember how Richard says "I watched them all die"? I think the Jack group does all die BUT the Richard group lives! Ben redeems himself and gets to be what he always wanted (I mean he does love the island and he did try what he thought was best)the Protector of the Island, and Miles gets his wish too (really he has always been the sidekick to someone). Richard goes to heaven, gets Isabella, Ben is now Jacob and Miles is the new Richard. Boom! Lost!
@Teeborius Maximus - Thanks :D
I've seen a lot of characters die on television ---I watched 24, The Wire, Oz, and everything Joss Whedon has ever made-- but for some reason the deaths of the characters on this series are hitting me a lot harder than any tof the others. I'm trying to figure out why (and not just because this is a site devoted to Lost)
Perhaps its because this has been an epic journey for so many of the characters. To have survived everything that happened over the last six seasons, it's heartbreaking -- plane crashes, hatch explosions, freighters blowing up a tiem traveling island out to kill them, a goddamn hydrogen bomb being detontating --- each time being harder to bear. And then, three of the most beloved characters being killed so unkindly and so quickly almost like extras in a disaster movie.
Has anyone else ever watched a rerun of Lost, hell, any TV series that features a character whose fate is sealed, and it affects you. When Mark Greene died from his bout with brain cancer, I couldn't watch any episode of ER from the shows first eight seasons without thinking "The sword of Damocles is perched over" this man who I'd become very fond of. It made it a little harder to watch the series. Makes it hard to watch Buffy too--- how can I enjoy Cordelia's biting putdowns of the scoobies knowing that she's going be using by a monster demon and die before she turns 22?
Now Sayid is dead. Locke and Ben are brilliantly drawn (I still hope we see the old Locke before the end) and Kate and Desmond are endearing, but Sayid has always been the character I empathisized with most on the show. A good part of was the brilliant work of Naveen Andrews, but a lot of it had to do this character who was probably the most tormented before, during, and after he came to the island. I'm sad he's dead because there was a good man in there (his last actions proved it) and all his life he was subjugated by forces beyond his control. I knew his fate was sealed when they tried to drown him in the temple, but I hoped that the island might show him mercy. I don't feel there was.
And Sun and Jin. Oh God. Their romance was one of the greatest love stories of all time. I was more invested in this relationship then any other one on the show Both Daniel and Yunjin were such fine actors, and you wanted so much for things to work out. I was elated when Jin emerged after the freighter blew up, so hoping that their love would somehow emerge triumphant despite every force in the world being used against them. NOw their love story has ended in tragedy, but not because of anything that their actions did. Their reunion (my God, it was only two weeks ago) made me weak in the knees, and now they choose to end it by letting the last thing either of them see is each other. But now their daughter will grow up without her parents. We know growing up with parents is no guarantee for happiness, but Ji Yeon--- I grieve for her.
(I'm also going to say this once, because it needs to be said. When the raft blew up in Season 1, they were in the middle of the ocean, but Jin managed to float to safety somehow. In Season 4, Jin survived the freighter being blown up, and jumped with the island even though, by then the freighter was miles away. Is it possible, just possible that, he might be the candidate and that the island might save him? I don't want to say this because we know Sun is definitely dead, and one without the other is even worse then both, somehow, but still...)
That is why I mourn their loss. That's why it's going to be awful hard to watch D.O.C. or One of Them, knowing that these character I have become so invested in have no future away from the island. It has nothing to do with race or sex, it has to do with character, and these deaths have caused me agony. I still want to see how all of this ends (I've invested six years in this story) but it's going to be awfully hard getting through the next three weeks.
When you eulogize them Nikki--- give them all a chapter. They deserve that much, if not more.
CATCH A FALLING STAR
Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket,
Never let it fade away!
Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket,
Save it for a rainy day!
For love may come and tap you on the shoulder,
Some star-less night!
Just in case you feel you want to hold her,
You’ll have a pocketful of starlight!
Chorus
For when your troubles startin’ multiplyin’,
And they just might!
It’s easy to forget them without tryin’,
With just a pocketful of starlight!
Chorus
(Music and Lyrics by Lee Pockriss & Paul Vance)
Word Verf: liona : The Queen of the Pride.
Teebore excellent idea about MIB and Widmore being in on it together. As I'm thinking back over the rest of this season, I can see facts that support your theory. I can definitely see Widmore being part of the con to get the Losties somewhere confined to kill them.
I was disappointed when Sayid said “Because it’s going to be you, Jack.”, since I wholeheartedly believe Hurley is candidate.
Also, I noticed Jack's whole catchphrase obsession as well. After Jack said "Let it go" I though he would finish with "You have what it takes, John."
:''''''(
SAYID! NOoOooooOOOOOOOooooooo....
Okay, buck up. All is not lost. We'll get to see Sayid rot in jail in alt-world for killing Keamy & Co, right? Or maybe kick Sawyer's and Miles' butts and escape, right?
Um...RIGHT?!
::curls into a fetal position and wails::
Jack always has a patch of skin showing between his shirt and his pants when he kneels down, but Sawyer never does, hmmmm.....
It's harder to get sad when characters die because we still have them alive in the sideways world, so they aren't really gone, are they?
OH MY GOD. I am exhausted. My eyes hurt. I was hysterical and weeping and my husband just kept looking at me like I was a crazy person. "It's JUST a show," he said to me.
I feel the same as you, Nikki. Heartbroken about Sayid and Sun and Jin, worried for the remaining Losties, and mourning the end which is on its way (but an extra half hour, you say? awesome!)... If I feel like this tonight (emotionally drained), how am I going to feel on May 23rd?
I can't help but hope that when the sideways world and this one collide (which I think they have to...), maybe everyone is going to be okay? Please?
@Blam: Lost's homage to The Poseidon Adventure will return after these messages...
Yes!
@latelylost: Sayid's death was redemptive and heroic. Charlie 2.0.
YES.
@LoyallyLost: Oh! I am soooooooooo glad that Cooper got his 'comeuppance', as my mom would say! I almost cheered when I saw that little weasel as a vegetable! Yippee Skippee!!!
Yes-yes-yes.
@Teebore: I wonder where Ben Richard and Miles are at?
Yes...
Word Verf: tablerte : The country road your dining set travels home.
Awesome episode - but too hurried. I'm starting to fear now that with some of the many mysteries we fans have wondered about over the years they will either be left un-addressed, which would suck, or hurried through/talked through, which also would suck.
Just one of many examples - Walt (remember Walt?) was supposed to be special and have special abilities, right? Remember that scene for example where he made the birds crash into the window?
So ... what's up with that? Will we never learn the answer?
Or will we hear hurriedly said instead:
Character A: "Oh, by the way, some people on this planet have special abilities because they [fill in the blank - maybe they have some of the electromagnetic energy inside their bodies, sort of a reverse-Superman, Popeye-ish deal they were born with]."
Character 2: "Oh, so that explains Walt, and the Oracle lady, and Desmond, and Eloise Hawking, and so on, and so on...?
Character 1: "Yep. Next."
Speaking of weird superpowers ... Flocke's clairvoyancy ("clair...?") is coming more to the fore all the time. By simply peering out at the ocean, he knows some of the Losties died on the sub and some made it out alive. What else does he know?
Next week's episode had better be awesome. A friend reads all the spoiler blogs and has been telling me all season that next week's episode is the "mythology" episode where finally for the first time all the ancient ruins and ancient people's relation to the Island are explained. I hope he's right, I've been looking forward to that for a long time...
Nikki, this season in your blog postings you have been exploring some of the meta-themes of the show: Love. Sacrifice. Fear.
Surely being wrong is a major meta-theme as well? From Locke in the first season with the button ("I was wrong") to Jack and the big bomb, to Sawyer and the little bomb tonight, and even Dogen (who claimed people like Sayid infected by Flocke's influence causing their souls to flip totally to the dark side were irredeemable - we saw tonight Dogen was wrong, too and Hurley's earler Anakin hopefulness was justified after all as Sayid came back to the whole and the good).
Anyway, just thought you might want to reflect on all the times in the series a character has made a major mistake with lasting repercussions. To me that is yet another meta-theme.
WV: "Talistr" - someone who makes it onto the A-list in Hollywood because of their talents in the T&A department.
I can't even put words to my feelings about Sayid, Sun & Jin.
Instead I'm going to talk about the alternate Jack and Claire. I loved how he invited his new sister home to stay with him and called her family. In the regular Lostverse Claire has been deserted by first the father of her child, then she loses Charlie, then she thought everyone left her to rot on the island. But on the alternate world she is accepted and taken in by family. I somehow think that is important to how her story arc ends.
As for blaming anyone for that bomb on the sub. The fault is the MIB's alone. Sawyer freaked and considering it was a bomb I understand. I think that MIB has to have no candidate to fill Jacob's shoes to leave the island. If he can get them to kill each other he wins. So, blaming Sawyer or anyone else other than the MIB is a waste of time. People have a habit of redeeming themselves on the island.
Sorry I missed you on FB earlier. I sent you a message there re: my name in your book! Eeeeee!
(thanks for that ray of sunshine in my evening of weeping...)
The episode was satisfying though incredibly sad. I was happy jack offered Claire a place to stay since they talked so unfamily Like and when Claire turned around, i was like Jack!!!! She's your sister. Do something damn it.
Darlton are very SADISTIC!!! My god. I thought the sinking submarine was tragic but then they really showed the hands, soooo heartbreaking.
Lastly, why does anyone even question jack being THE candidate. He was the first person we saw on this show, it has always Been jack vs lock. So why not the end?
Oh, Nikki…. I am a man gushing tears upon tears from “the scene”. There are few times that a TV show has made me cry, but my hand to Jacob, this season just opened the floodgates for me!
The hands. The HANDS. I lost it completely. And just seeing Hurley cry his eyes out, followed by everyone else, it made me tear up harder.
I can’t help but wonder… when Sawyer regains consciousness, how will he cope? Will he blame himself for this? I’m very anxious to see how this plays out.
RE: Sayid – It really felt like we had good ‘ol Sayid back this episode. Yes, it wasn’t a hero’s goodbye with hugs and tears, but dammit, he did good by me. Also, not quite the “Darth Vader redemption” I was postulating, but it’ll suffice.
@Joan Crawford: Also, did anyone notice that awesome old lady in the nursing him that Jack is making eyes at while Helen rolls Anthony over? :D I DID! AHAHAHAHAHAHA
@redeem147: I always said he was my Lost Spike. tee-hee. I instantly thought of a platinum blonde Sayid with a long black leather coat.
@SonshineMusic: Bernard was TOTALLY creepy and knew WAY too much. He was acting like Desmond. Creepy stalkery crazy. Can I run with this and postulate that Desmond has visited our dear Bernard prior to Jack’s visit??
@Rainier: If they kill Hurley I will never forgive them. I couldn’t agree with you more. Hurley is the one person I am hoping will live out the rest of the series. I can totally understand why people were killed off, but ugh. I was kinda hoping for some sort of Charlie-esque moment, with a slow-mo Sayid running down the narrow hallway with images of Nadia and/or Shannon in his mind and a somber piano/violin playing softly in the background. Realistically though, I don’t think something like that would have tonally fit the situation. Doesn’t mean I didn’t want that though!
@Teebore: Jack has Juliet, and now Sawyer has his own leadership screwup. Hopefully now everyone will be on the same page. Wow, I never thought of it like that! I do hope that too!
Quick hits:
- So I guess FLocke is tech-savvy now?! So much for our “Misadventures of Flocke and Technology” spin-off. “I hate walkie-talkies, and I love my wooden stick. But I LOOOVE making bombs.” (side-note, I wonder if this might catch some flak considering the recent Times Square bombing attempt.)
- I don’t want Lapidus to die with such… abbreviated lines. “Aww, hell.” I mean, I know he’s a minor character and all and he pretty much stands apart from the major cast (other than him, it was pretty much the primary cast, right?!), but… so… little… dialogue.
- I was half expecting sideways Jin to punch sideways Locke in the face. …OKAY, I kinda wanted that to happen, just a little. (A lot.)
- This is a little Looney-Toons of me, but I thought of Claire being so scared of being left behind again, she’d dive right in after the sub, miraculously latch onto the side, and tap on some sort of porthole asking to be let in while already a good 100 feet underwater.
- Kate shot? Meh. Sun trapped behind metal debris? ZOMG!!!!!!11!!one!111!
- I wonder what Desmond’s been up to in the well during all of this action and emotion? “99 bottles of Mccutcheon on the wall, 99 bottles of Mccutcheon, you take one down, pass it around, 98 bottles of Mccutcheon on the wall!”
I guess this is all I’ll post for tonight. Like weeks before, I’ve got to be at the hospital in the wee-hours of the morning. Tomorrow is my last day of Obstetric clinicals, and I’m on Labor and Delivery again. Ladies: I’ve caught the “live show” of caesarian deliveries and the vaginal deliveries, and I must say… WOW. For a body to emerge… from ANOTHER body, you women are amazing. Catch you guys tomorrow afternoon!
WV: crosanov - *as spoken by Chekov* "With the previous deaths of Charlie and Shannon, and now Sayid, Sun and Jin, don't you think the Lost writers have made the fans crosanov?"
A few more thoughts before I crash...
Nikki: What a lovely eulogy of Sayid.
From the moment they arrived on that island, Sayid did everything in his power to get them off.
[Hold your ears, Sonshine...] Especially Joan!
I think this episode was the beginning of the finale. Now that we've seen it, I feel like it should've aired last week — to pick up more quickly on the Jin/Sun reunion, to give us more time to contemplate the deaths that occurred (as long as we had to take a week off), to leave us pondering the last calm before the storm as Jack looks out to sea rather than make us wait a fortnight on the more cliffhangerish scene of the characters at gunpoint on the Hydra beach — but at the same time, I suspect we've just had a taste of the last supper.
Naveen Andrews seemed to have reverted to his native British accent in the first scene with Jack in the outrigger, and later at one point in the sub, just as it sounded to many of us like he did when Sayid first awoke post-drowning in the Temple.
I can't believe I totally forgot to mention Bernard the Zen Dentist (Zentist?). He sure did seem eerily calm and knowing, but not (to me) in a sinister way, and it was great to see him.
VW: looffem — What Bill O'Reilly threatens to do to the objects of his affection.
@Blam: leaves us with mostly lily-white, all American candidates to take over for Jacob, himself fair-skinned, fair-haired,
Not you alone, Blam, this has been one of the main criticisms of LOST. In the end, the LOST universe is white, male, and American. Still it did for some time offer a wider view of the world, though an Americanized point of view--I mean, no show offered so much non-English dialgoue, nor portrayed so many foreign characters in a postive light. Kudos to the writers of LOST for doing so. But with wrapping the show up, the narrative demands a narrowing of the field of main characters, and we seem to be following the first few minutes of the Pilot in reverse--the main ones then were Jack, Kate, Hurley and Claire; at least those were the ones we spent the most time with. I can live with this resolving characters down to a few, because we always have the LA X timeline where we'll see Jin and Sun, and everyone else.
@SunshineMusic:Bernard was TOTALLY creepy and knew WAY too much. He was acting like Desmond. Creepy stalkery crazy
Maybe in all those years with Rose on the island, Bernard and Rose became like Ms Hawking, one of the time police, knowing all and guiding the candidates.
Question: So how does Mib/Locke know the sub sank and some made it out, but he doesn't realize that Desmond is still alive? Come on writers, that's a big mistake.
Once again, Locke blows up a sub, just as his namesake did earlier when Jack wanted to leave the island. Ironic that now Jack does not want to leave the island, and blowing up the sub keeps Jack on the island.
So let me get this straight. Killing the candidates (all at once or nearly) is the point of the game. If Widmore accomplishes this, he gets control of the island. If MiB accomplishes this, he gets to leave the island. But it depends on who kills them--if Widmore does it, then MiB gets no benefit. Vice versa for MiB and Widmore.
So what does Jacob get? So far we've been told Jacob is looking for a candidate to replace him, but why? No one yet has asked this question. Does Jacob get to leave the island, go fishing, get in touch with former candidates, find a new job in LA? We'd all assumed Jacob was here eternally, but no, he needs a replacement. Why?
Maybe this is Jacob's way of getting off the island permanently without releasing MiB.
Finally, where are Ben, Richard and Miles? And where the heck is Vincent? I am hoping we'll see them again, and not in a dire, desperate situation, though I do not hold out for much given this episode. And finally, is Desmond breaking all the rules? Will he not heed Ms Hawking's advice and leave well enough alone?
One word on Sun's memory when she saw Locke coming into the ER. Her memories were not just of the moment given in that episode, but I believe they included all her memories, including her death and Island Locke's role in that. In other words, when people's memories come to them, they can recall everything, even events in the last few episodes we haven't yet seen.
Now that our heroes are on the main island again, this leaves some time for MiB to revert to Smokie form once more and finish off Widmore and crew. Afterall the sonar towers are down for an hour, there is no sub to escape to, and MiB is pissed. At least that would clear out the remaining charcaters, and there really doesn't seem to be much for Widmore's group to do, now that Zoe has lost Jin's expertise on the magnetic elements on the main island. So expect another Temple clearing of Widmore's camp. That'll bring the focus back to the main island and the main characters.
What of the two worlds? We see a lot of bleed through, and just as there was that red light between Sun and Jin in the water at the end, its like a opening to the alternate timeline. Just because we see events juxtaposed doesn't mean that is how they are in reality. Perhaps the alternate timeline is Purgatory.
Wow. I don't know much about subs but with almost three minutes left is there really no way to get that bomb off the sub? A garbage portal? A room with two water-tight doors (close one & open the other)?
Yeah - the whole "let's die together and make our child an orphan thing". I expect better.
So only up to nine 815ers still live (J/K/S/H/C - Walt, assumedly Bernard & Rose and maybe Cindy?)
How is MIB blowing them up in the sub not killing them directly? Was that all a lie? I hope this is explained. Can he kill them if they're off the island maybe?
Knowing LOST - if we haven't seen Lapidus' body I wouldn't count him out.
So, did Smokey kill all Widmore's guys? Widmore himself? We better not be robbed of a final Ben/Widmore confrontation.
-Tim ALan
I loved this episode. I squee'd many times (Jack's 'What happened, happened', the return of Katey Sagal, who I shall crush on until I die). I, like your hubby, Nik, thought when I saw Locke's dad "Ha ha, eat a dick, Anthony so-called Cooper! That's what you get for being... oh, he was a nice guy? Well, that's just tragic, then." And then there was Kate saying to Jack 'What are you doing here?" WTF was she expecting him to say?? "Oh, I'm just out for a run, you know. Saw you guys in a cage, checked to make sure you and Sawyer weren't boning, thought I'd let you out." Almost the stupidest, most needless, Captain Obvious, look-at-me-setting-up-narration line ever.
But most of all this episode just made me realise that it's all ending. And in that vein, here's a haiku that sums up what I'm feeling as this brilliant, intriguing, engaging, and wonderful show slowly (but not slowly enough!) comes to an end.
Not long to go now.
The story I love ending.
I'll miss you so much.
Oh, and @Blam, you funny, funny man: Maybe she wanted Aaron to get an early peek his Uncle Jack?
Oh, my gravy. My pancreas. She hurts from the laughing. You, sir, are BRILLIANT!
I could barely watch the last half of that episode - I was so tense I can't say I enjoyed it. Having a stiff honey vodka now to get over it.
I saw comments on facebook about it earlier and I knew someone was going to die but didn't know who - it nearly killed me!
Sun and Jin....NOOOOOO...I didn't think they would go like this, but it was beautiful. I do agree with the posters that it was incredibly romantic but a tad unrealistic as I would think they'd worry about Ji Yeon growing up an orphan.
Love how their death mirrored Charlies underwater. Lost did it again, I thought the deaths were also similar to Ana Lucia and Libby, characters being killed off back to back without giving us any time to breathe. I was gasping!
All the sayings from before, actually my favorite is when Jack told Locke "I wish you had believed me" and Locke stopping for a minute to contemplate and rolling off....like he knew HE had said it before.
I think Lapidus's death got the shaft! It sort of got "lost" throught everyone elses.
I loved loved LOVED this episode. But I feel empty. Its amazing to me how much I've grown to love these characters. I know its only a show but what a show....sigh...
Sorry haven't read comments yet but will, tight time this morning. . .
Nikki said - That rosewood box that Claire and Jack look at It made me think of Rouseau's music box.
Nikki - Locke says he’s off to finish what he started. I took this as just trying to get off the island. Which in turn means he needs to take out the rest of the gang.
And of course, RIP Sayid, Jin and Sun -- sniff, sniff -- there were actual tears!
But I'm waiting for an exciting return of the Three Amigos (nod to Cinco de Mayo)Ben, Richard and Miles!
And I'm with Nikki, I can't much more of our "friends" dying . . .
I did the bad thing - read all the comments and other sites before watching. I am in Mexico and still figuring out how to watch it.
I'm actually happy that Sun died. All she did for the last two seasons was run around screaming, "MY HUSBAND, DO YOU KNOW WHERE MY HUSBAND IS? I WANT MY HUSBAND!" I do like Jin a lot though, so I was sad about him...
Anyway, I thought the whole death scene was wayyyy too sappy. I sat on the couch rolling my eyes. And the held hands dramatically slipping away?
Ew. But maybe it's just my personality.
I still think Charlie's death was much sadder than this sapfest.
Well, R.I.P Sayid, Frank(?), and Jin. Sun, good riddance.
I believe Christian wanted Claire to have the music box because he used to sing "Catch a Falling Star" to her when she was a baby. I seem to remember someone mentioning it in a past episode.
If Frank died, then the only person left from the freighter is Miles.
There's only three candidates left! Jack, Hugo and Sawyer (potentially four if Desmond is one of them). Who's it going to be? . . .
I cannot wait for next week's episode. We're finally going to know who is on the Light side and who is on the dark side of the force (it WAS Star Wars day yesterday, after all . . . May the "fourth" be with you)
All in all, a fantastic episode. But Ab Aeterno comes slightly before it for best non-finale episode.
John 15:13 - Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
With all of the biblical themes that play in LOST, I think this is the biblical reference that is the most important. The series and especially this episode has illustrated this scripture. I think this sacrificial love is what Jacob expected and called "progress." MIB does not have this same faith in people. Perhaps before the Losties, when Jacob and MIB were playing their "game" that the prior candidates did not demonstrate this sacrificial love for one another. That is what will make this group special and why they are the "progress" that Jacob was talking about.
@Blam - Maybe Jack was just giving Kate, Hurley, and himself space, but I think the message was that he didn't want the others to see him get emotional, and that in turn made me wonder if Jacob didn't go through something similar once upon a time.
Um, Jack cries in every episode.
In re: Sun and Jin and their lack of dialogue for the past few episodes - I think the writers are inadvertently and prematurely cutting out characters who are slated to die soon. I'm worried that those characters who have few lines are wearing red shirts for the finale. I don't think we're looking at a happy ending here. :-(
This is so petty, but I really just want to get email comments...
but Claire's hair is really bothering me.
Ok- go back to the real stuff.
This episode marks the first of the last batch of episodes. It is fast-paced, and perfectly sets the pace and emotion for the final episodes. This felt like a finale, and I can't comprehend the awesomeness of the following episodes if they're all like this. The characters are now all in danger and expendable and no one is safe. When Jack uncovered the C4 in his pack (IT'S A TRAP!!!), I was fearing for all my beloved characters' lives. Not many shows can do that, and it's a credit to the writers for making some of the most memorable characters in television history.
It had to happen sooner or later, and it happened tonight: the death toll is climbing on "Lost". Characters are dying, and I am crying. I'm very surprised that Jin and Sun drowned so soon after being reunited. Damn you, Smokey.
Personally, I hope Jack finds true redemption and victory before the end. He has always been the reluctant leader and made himself responsible for all of his friends. It was tough to watch as he leaves Jin and Sun to die. People better start listening to him, since one has to wonder: would the C4 have exploded if Sawyer didn't remove the wiring? No one really listened to Locke, so now they must try to listen to Jack (who has Locke's way of thinking now). The only 815ers left (against MIB) are Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley. These are the same four that were requested to travel with Michael to obtain Walt from the Others, who got their commands from Jacob. Is this meaningful? Are these specific four extremely special to Jacob?
Rest in Peace: Sayid Jarrah, Jin & Sin Soo-Kwon, and Frank Lapidus. (Man, those were sudden!)
SIDEWAYS WORLD:
Jack continues to be amazed at how he keeps meeting other passengers of Oceanic 815. Everyone is coming together, yet there was no sign of Desmond this episode. Anyway, it was very interesting to see Anthony Cooper as a vegetable, and to learn that it was Locke's fault. Jack also says that, during Locke's operation, his dural sack was ruptured. Jack's first solo procedure on the 16-year old girl also had a ripped dural sack involved.
I couldn't blink for the final 20 minutes. Jack pushing MIB into the water started it, and then the excitement didn't end. Kate getting shot made me cry "NO!", but thank God she lived. Jack's faith in MIB's bluff is very informative, and it proves that Jack is now the most valuable player among MIB's enemies. Perhaps the greatest undoing of MIB is that he is indeed NOT John Locke. Ironic, eh?
Did MIB truly know that Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley survived the submarine death trap? Was he referring to Desmond when he set out with his rifle in hand? He DID look like he didn't believe Sayid when he told him that Desmond was dead. Is Claire going to be safe with MIB? Her name was scratched out as well, so...what's the deal, MIB?
We still have to see what Ben, Richard, and Miles are up to. Last seen, they were headed to the Ajira plane. Are they with Widmore now?
FINAL THOUGHTS:
Again, this is a fantastic episode, and this series never ceases to amaze me. I LOVE these characters, and it's painful to watch some die, but it had to happen soon. But hey, whatever happened...happened. Bring on the final three episodes, because if this episode is any indication, this show is going to end in a VERY satisfying way.
Did anyone else notice that the first aid kit Hurley can't find is RIGHT NEXT TO FRANK?
Very excited for the crucial Jacob/MIB backstory next week!
Benny said -- 4. Kate is not on Widmore's list - she was not listed as one of the six in Ab Aeterno enhanced! But she was not scratched in the lighthouse.
So does everyone have their own list of who they need for whatever? I'm trying to think if Kate has done anything since returning to the island that would "disqualify" her from being a candidate. Has she some how "given in" to Flocke which would then take her off Jacob's list?
Benny said -- 6. Locke getting everyone on the sub with the C$
I knew when Flocke helped Jack on with the pack that the explosives where in there. I called out to Jack, but he didn't hear me . . .
Well, thanks writers, for the FIVE MINUTES of happiness Jin and Sun got before they DIED!!!
On the other hand, thanks also for showing the others grieving for their friends. I held on until Hurley started sobbing and I lost it completely.
And Sayid -- sigh. At least he got a hero's death. And if there's any justice at all, he's with Nadia now. He was never going to live happily ever after without her anyway, and at least we now know he wasn't completely corrupted.
But Jin and Sun, oh my. I kept thinking of the Strausses on the Titanic. Good point, Nikki, they were probably never getting back to their daughter anyway, but look what she has to live with now -- she lives with her Paik grandparents, who never liked her father, and now her mother has up and vanished.
Still crying and processing. None of my friends watch this show! Thank heavens I can post here! YOU all know why I'm crying.
I'm a mess. More later.
Re: FLocke knowing that not all of them died on the sub.
I don't think he knows because he has some sort of extra-sensory thing going on. My immediate reaction was he knows because he is still stuck on the Island. And I don't believe that Widmore wants them all dead. I think FLocke was the one that rigged the explosives from the beginning (I'm thinking he was the one that killed the other 316 survivors) so he could set them all up in the sub. Don't know what Widmore's game is yet, but I don't think it's killing them all.
VW: yaker - one that takes care of yaks
How did Flocke know that the candidates had been placed in the cages? He told Jack they were there after Jack woke up from the canoe ride with Sayid.
Did anyone else notice how the episode was structured like the movie Serenity? First Sayid dies - the character who has already been dead for some episodes and, while heartbreaking, his death isn't a total surprise. (Book) So we're shocked when we lose Jin and Sun (Wash). Now we feel the treat full on that we could lose anyone or everyone.
I lost it when Sayid died (now I know how certain Torchwood fans feel) and got very weepy for Sun and Jin, but it was a total meltdown when Hurley started crying. Especially when I remembered that he was the one who was there for Sun when she thought she'd lost Jin.
I need a break. Maybe the next one will be a musical episode.
I agree with the sentiments that things seemed a little rushed right now, and not in the "season's coming to a close and lots is happening" good way, but more in the "this series is coming to a close, and we've got to shove all this in" way. But it's still Lost, and it still rocks, and what we all do in a few weeks after it's gone?
(always late to the party... stupid time zones!)
Excellent episode - the true "beginning of the end", in the self-referencing fashion that's been the trademark of this season. I cried my eyes out for Jin and Sun, not going to lie :) And yeah, Hurley, Kate and Jack's grief on the beach only made it worse. I've read comments elsewhere that there were too many tears (and justified Jears, may I add) at the end of the episode, while my thought was "finally we see some mourning for the dead on this show!" Not that we haven't seen any, but take Charlie's dead - huge impact for the audience, and yet we've seen a kinda mild reaction to it from the characters, even if he sacrificed for the sake of them all.
On the other hand, as much as I have always been a Sayid fan, his death didn't affect me as much (and Frank, yeah, I liked Frank, but I've been wondering what he was there for since the beginning of the season). Zombie!Sayid felt like a long goodbye to the character we knew and loved, and having him die a heroic death was more catharsis than tragedy. I wonder if it's echoed by sideways!Cooper, who is alive but "already gone".
Speaking of Cooper, I wonder if the Sideways is the world of karmic reward (and karma is definitely a major theme on Lost) resulting from the original timeline. Sometimes to the ironic effect of having a good Cooper paying for the crimes of his bad original counterpart (but if he was a good man in the sideways, then who caused the death of Sawyer's parents in that timeline?).
It might just be a red herring, but I'm crossing my fingers for Christian Shephard to be a key point in the eventual conenction between the two worlds, after having been MIA for the whole season. Looks like he's the real "constant", the one whose karmic balance was the same in both realities. And then well, there's the mystery of the missing body/lost coffin. I think that this episode gave us the definite proof that FLocke is a liar, which casts further doubts on his claim of always having been island!Christian, while personally I believe in he "two Christians" theory (one impersonated by the MiB, and one - possibily the actual body - acting on behalf of the island itself). On the other hand his kindness to Claire looks more and more interesting, which might be a trace of Christian in him... or some sort of weird Oedipal thing if the story about his crazy mother is true. I guess that next week's episode might clear that out. (continue)
Oh, another thing I loved was Jack and Claire finally bonding in the sideways. I have absolutely no clue about the music box though. And - shock! - I'm liking Jack in both universes (while not a big Sawyer fan this season): he might be the new man of faith, but he didn't give up rational thinking... actually, I think he's more rational now than when he was a self proclaimed man of science. He eventually figured out FLocke's plan with such clarity you'd think he'd been watching the show, lol! He's now in tune with the island and its rules, with Hurley being the one who's closest to this "enlightened" status. Sawyer (we'll see if things change when and if he recovers from his wound) is still attached to his earthly desires and Kate is a wildcard, an element that unbalances the cave and the lighthouse, so I really don't know what to expect from her. I can't call myself a fan, but I'm rooting for her to make it to the last stand at this point.
The only thing that is bugging me about this last batch of episodes are some cheap writing choices that strike me as un-Lost, as if the loyal fans that followed the show until the end needed to get didascalic explanations now. I mean stuff like Lapidus' cheesy "someone's got her voice back" comment re: Sun, and as everyone noted, Jin and Sun exchanging their (almost) last words in English when they had entire episodes in Korean. I suspect that the viewers who couldn't handle the subtitles back then didn't make it as far as this episode.
---------------------------
@Blam [May 5, 2010 12:06 AM], it's true that the Lost fandom hasn't been as vocal about it as others would have, but I've definitely seen criticism about the way female and PoC characters have been handled throughout (heck, Harold Perrineau himself had something to say about Michael's arc after all). One of the things I realized when we saw Charlotte in Sawyer's sideways is that she was the only Freightie who didn't get to use her sepcific ability on the island, even if there was supposedly a lot to comment on for her - ancient ruins, weird statues and so on. I was never really invested in her character, but it bugs me that she was basically introduced to deliver a couple of snarky lines and eventually die to give Faraday something to angst over (other than his mommy issues). So when I saw her appearing so randomly in Sawyer's episode it really rubbed me the wrong way, because it's as if her character had no other purpose than beinga romantic interest.
Nikki - I think that Jack was wrong this time too. If they did nothing like he wanted them to they would have all been blown up. Sawyer was right - even if he did speed the timer up he at least got them moving.
Would it be too much to ask for a quick scene in the Finale with Jin's dad somehow getting custody of Ji Yeon?
After a rewatch I'm not totally sure Sayid's gone. On LOST if I don't see a body I'm not 100% buying it. Frank and Sayid coming in out of nowhere to help in the Final Battle?
Poor Jin - he had the worst luck.
I'm leaving on the raft - BAM
I'm leaving on the freighter - BAM
I'm leaving on the sub? - BAM
-Tim ALan
Thank you Carlton and Damon for that brutalizing session of gestalt psychotherapy.
Lapidus:
A ton of wet steel to Lapidus' face?
Fair comeuppance for the worst line in Lost's history, assuming he ad-libbed the scene marring "...someone got her voice back," rather than reading off the script. Nobody ever believed he was a candidate or could fly that busted-up plane anyway.
Sayid:
Pink mist hydro spa treatment in a sub?
Everyone say thank you oh wise Churchillian and fascist leader Sawyer, Mr. Policeman with a star badge! Thank you for the rare opportunity for an Indian actor portraying an Iraqi torturer oft mistaken for an Iranian national to make a touching touchdown dash to death. Jack, what do you mean "there is no Sayid?" Clearly y'all got a little bit of him in your noses and mouths as you swam through his atomized remains en route to the breach in the sub's hull. He WAS already zombie dead anyway.
Sun & Jin
After years of proving to us that Jin is waterproof, their final act is joint drowning while denying their core uniting fluency?
Orphans of the world, unite! I cannot be alone in feeling that this was light treatment of characters who merited a better end committed in service of Team Darlton's need to prove they still have the GodFinger and can still deliver mayhem. We, collectively, repent, oh mighty ones. Yours is the final say. We understand FLocke is The One, the Big Bad, Evil Incarnate and beg forgiveness for our misapprehensions. We relinquish Master of the Universe status to you and your team alone and are but grovelling dogs and swine pleading for life and happiness or, if not consistent with your plotlines and world views, fair demise of our few remaining island survivors.
On second thought, glad to have them done. No more whining about "where is Jin." No more wondering about the final fate of Charlie's/Aaron's DS ring. No more elemental musings as Earth and Water as you just made hand-clasped (and--sadly--postmortemly released) mud. Do whatever catches your whim, because I, for one, was tired of reading subtitles anyway.
Alas, fantastic four, I knew you well...adieu.
@Convergence: Just one of many examples - Walt (remember Walt?) was supposed to be special and have special abilities, right? Remember that scene for example where he made the birds crash into the window?
So ... what's up with that? Will we never learn the answer?
At this point, I think we've got everything we're going to get about Walt. He had special powers, which attracted the Others attention when he landed on the island. So they kidnapped him, tested him (for Jacob candidacy, maybe?) and he turned out to be more hassle than he was worth (too powerful) so they let him leave the island with Michael.
I'd like to know the deal behind his astral projections to Shannon (why backwards and wet?) but I suppose we can chalk that up to his weird powers if nothing else. I'm also curious about the Walt who got Locke out of the pit in season three.
But I'm fairly certain the origin of his specialness won't get explained; that's the kind of "midichlorian" mystery the producers have made very clear they won't be explaining.
@Tim Alan: How is MIB blowing them up in the sub not killing them directly?
It's a subtle distinction, but I understood it to be this: FLocke put the bomb in the sub, but it wouldn't blow up because he can't kill the candidates. But if they do anything to it (shoot it, detonate it themselves, or take action-pulling out wires-that detonates it themselves) then FLocke is no longer directly responsible for their deaths.
Look at this way: FLocke can't shoot a candidate and kill them, but he can hand a gun to someone else and say "shoot." All he did with the bomb was hand a gun to someone and gamble that they'd pull the trigger.
At least, that was my take on it.
@SonshineMusic: I don't think he knows because he has some sort of extra-sensory thing going on. My immediate reaction was he knows because he is still stuck on the Island.
Ditto.
@Stacy How did Flocke know that the candidates had been placed in the cages?
I'm guessing he either did some scouting off camera (not sure how tight a perimeter the fences are making) or Sayid did. Or else, he just deduced that, knowing the layout of the island and its facilities, the cages were the most likely place to put a group of prisoners.
Hey guys we should wake Nikki up...she probably cried herself to sleep...poor thing LOL
@Teebore/Susan: While the idea is sound and could fit the story, I don't think there is enough evidence to support a Widmore-Locke alliance.
I don't think Widmore is completely supportive of the survivors, but at the same time, the antagonism he showed to Locke on the beach (The Package) served no purpose in perpetuating a deception since there was no one around to deceive. And then there's the mortar attack last episode (The Last Recruit).
Personally, I just don't see it.
@Convergence: Truth be told, the writers confirmed that a lot of what fans consider mysteries just aren't to the writers. They said that fans made mysteries out of what was not supposed to be.
Now I don't know which ones they are, but that doesn't bode well in terms of answering every mystery as seen by the fans
@Fred/Kotowski: I think he knows some of them survived because his nature has not changed and he cannot escape. And obviously he knows that. The Desmond thing is that Desmond has knowledge and is special, he can help. But since he is not a candidate, his death/living cannot be detected by Locke.
More so, maybe Locke just knows SOME candidates did not survive since his nature hasn't changed, he just doesn't know who. So his comments do not come from detecting them but rather his nature and the nature of the candidates.
@Tim Alan: According to Jack, the bomb was not rigged. It's Sawyer pulling the wires that activated it. That was the trick Jack said Locke had used.
Found this quote from the Time blog on last nights episode. It actually made sense to me about why Jin decided to stay with Sun.
But that would mean nothing if the show were not also still able to pull our heartstrings. Sun and Jin's deaths, after a pulse-pounding, claustrophobic rescue attempt in the sinking submarine, were wrenching but, more important, ultimately true to their characters. I did wonder, as a parent, why Sun would not ask Jin to swim to safety for the sake of Ji Yeon. But it makes sense to me that he wouldn't be able to leave her. They've been separated for three years and finally, briefly, brought back together.
Deciding whether to stay with Sun or leave for their baby's sake would have been agonizing, and I think the scene would have been stronger to show him wrestling with it. But ultimately it makes sense—for Jin—knowing that his child is being cared for, that he could not leave Sun to drown alone. And an excellent performance by Yunjin Kim, who managed to convey not just her fear of dying, but the deeper sorrow that what she had fought so hard to get—a future with her family—is being stolen from her. She made me feel not just the horror of her death, but worse, the aching loss of the long lives she and Jin should have had.
@ Kotowski: We still have to see what Ben, Richard, and Miles are up to. Last seen, they were headed to the Ajira plane. Are they with Widmore now?
Didn't they say their plan was to blow up the Ajira plane so that Flocke couldn't leave the island? Is it possible that THEY planted the bomb and not Widmore?
Late last night, I read the short announcement of the expanded finale (now 2.5 hours) over on EW.com. One of the comments there was very snarky and grumpy (natch), and basically predicted that ABC did that just so they can make us sit through an additional 30 minutes of commercials. I sincerely hope that is not the case!
After reading through all the heartbroken, grieving comments here this morning, I feel like sending flowers and possibly a piping hot casserole to each and every one of you. C’mon, group hug! :( It just feels wrong to have to use the frowny-face emoticon.
I have good news. As of this week, I am employed FULL TIME, which is a major upgrade. We’re talking benefits, people, among them health insurance and vacation pay! I had mostly given up on the idea of going to the LOST conference in Hawaii in January, 2011. But I received a cash gift for my birthday (which is this Friday), and my husband said, “So, are you gonna squirrel that away, saving towards your trip next January?” I wasn’t planning to, but he got me thinking. This morning I asked my boss if I could possibly take some time off in January, even though my anniversary date isn’t until March. She said no problem. Probably because it’s hardly like I’m a new employee here. I worked for this company 10½ years before getting laid off in 2008. So I am now looking forward to meeting many of you. That will be better than awesome!
Ditto to SonShine and Teebore for pre-echoing my thoughts on some topics!
Hadn't gotten to those comments before posting myself!
and Marebbae congrats and an early happy birthday!
@Benny: While the idea is sound and could fit the story, I don't think there is enough evidence to support a Widmore-Locke alliance.
Nah, I don't *really* think they're allied (mainly because of the fence faceoff; the mortar attack could be seen as part of the con and a way for Widmore to clear out FLocke's Others for him), but the thought occurred to me since the timing of Widmore's attack on the sub seemed to help FLocke's goal of getting everyone on the sub hurriedly.
Basically, I just wanted to throw that out there so if, on the off chance they are allies, I'll look like a genius. :)
According to Jack, the bomb was not rigged. It's Sawyer pulling the wires that activated it. That was the trick Jack said Locke had used.
And that's a much simpler explanation than my complicated gun analogy.
@marebabe: Congratulations! If you do make it to the conference enjoy! Alas, it is not to be for me this time. But I'm sure there will be more and I will make it in the future :)
VW: unted - To change your name from Ted to something else
@ Benny, you make some good points about MIB/Widmore; I've only seen this season's episodes once each, so I've forgotten some of the details.
It still makes me wonder just what Widmore's agenda is. Is leadership of the Others and control of the island all he wants? Does he have nothing to do with the Jacob/MIB war?
FLocke the reformed NeoLuddite--mad bomb skills there!
I've always thought the prohibition of technology around the cabin reinforced by a generous ash perimeter was like keeping Magneto in an insulated nonmetallic isolation chamber. Like a certain American Native destructive spirit who fed off energy/technology and could only be contained by restricting his access, flashlights were empowering and that Benjamin Linus was simply as ignorant of the reason behind the technology prohibition as the ancient Hebrews were of the reason behind the parasitic risks that informed the Levitical pork moratorium.
Huxley's The Island has a greater grasp on the hidden dangers of a life out of technological balance than I can cover here, it's canon to Lost, so I'll leave it at that.
Just sayin'...keep that electromagnetic monstrosity away from your iPad, etc. He's frickin' water resistant. Who knew?
@Teebore/Susan: There is a lot of gray surrounding Widmore, and there are times when the idea of the two being allied is a strong possibility - has been since a possibility since the start.
And I don't think we can throw it out the window completely.
on the off chance they are allies, I'll look like a genius
WE ALL do that I think, but with the amount of stuff we throw out there, I think we not only burned, but blew up or bridges to genius status ;)
Is leadership of the Others and control of the island all he wants?
Bad news, there's not a lot to be leader of!
@Benny but with the amount of stuff we throw out there, I think we not only burned, but blew up or bridges to genius status
Ha! Yeah, too true...
Ally or not, I really hope we get a further peak into Widmore's motivations/goals before this whole schebang is done. Even if they're going to leave it to us to suss out, fine, but give us just a little bit more data first, please?
Geez, LOST -- pace yourself, dude. 4 major deaths in two minutes' runtime? At this rate, the finale's just gonna be a war between ghosts. (Which, considering how hard they have to concentrate in order to hit each other, might come across as unintentionally funny, guys.) Seriously great stuff -- epic, even -- but seriously harsh.
@Joan: ...did anyone notice that awesome old lady in the nursing him that Jack is making eyes at while Helen rolls Anthony over? YES!!! New favorite LOST flirt ever.
Echoing those who've mentioned Bernard's supercreepy prescience in his conversation with Jack. He definitely knows something, but how? I'll be disappointed if that single scene is the last time we see him prove significant in the altverse.
Also wanted to call attention to that excellent conversation between Jack and Locke in the hallway of the hospital. Brilliant, brilliant acting by both Matt and Terry there, and my new favorite Jack-Locke scene ever, I think. Beautifully written as well -- I loved Jack's, "I was hoping you'd go first," and Locke's laugh in response. Superb.
Quick question for those who do a much better job of keeping up with such issues of logistics than I... Perhaps I am misremembering, but didn't Sun have Charlie's Dexter Stratton ring? I thought she had found it in Aaron's crib when they first returned to beach camp, and I've been holding out hope that the sight of it would be what snapped Warfare Claire out of her Smokeyfication trance & back to normal again. Guessing that won't happen if it's at the bottom of the bay...
[it's joshua, by the way.]
@Marshall.
It's possible they planted the C4, since we still don't know what Widmore's motive is in all of this.
INSANE EPISODE!!! And great recap as always Nik. Thoughts:
-I didn't feel the deaths until jack started crying by the beach. For some reason I was thinking of the 1st time we thought Charlie was dead (before Jack beat a hole into his chest and restarted his cyborg heart), I thought we would see Flocke or Lapidus come out of the ocean carrying the limp forms of Jin and Sun and Jack would bring them back to life after using one of the pens that Boone gave him back in the pilot episode. Once the leader broke down, it home for me...their gone.
-The Sayid death happened way too quickly for such an important character, in my opinion. We cold have used a slow-motion run with a quick montage of flashbacks (oh yea, WE NEED MONTAGE!) of his greatest hits (another Charlie reference). Maybe Nik is right, his 1st "death" at the Spring of Life was the biggie and this was just the "Artz-ing" of the Sayid shell that Flocke has been using for his dirty work.
-Au Locke kind of bothers me. After all that we've seen Anthony Cooper put this man through in OT, to see him give up his chance at walking as a self-punishment for crippling this same man is just hard to swallow. And that whole scene at the nursing home was just awkward. Joan brought up a great point: What did Helen say after she introduced Jack to Anthony Cooper? Why did Locke have to tell Jack the story? I completely agree. Also, is Jack in danger of loosing his license again for breaking privacy/patient confidentiality laws? I'm sure did not sign any waivers so this man can go digging through his personal business. Then again, he is Jack the Super Surgeon so the hospital would look past it this one time.
-The explosion itself seemed awful small for having been caused by 4 packs of C4. Sayid could have just thrown the damn thing the same distance that he covered by running. I originally thought he was going to open the hatch and go swimming out into the ocean with the bomb, but he just ran to a different part of the sub. That thing should have been ripped in half in my opinion.
-I think something is a amiss with this Flock/Widmore relationship. When the Candidates+Kate are trapped in the cages again, Sayid shuts off the power and Smokey comes in and start crackin' skulls "Chiklis style," why do they rush out of there and start running as fast as they can? Widmore's group had their power supply cut off, and Smokey can't be killed. Why not hang out in the cages until Smokey kills 'em all, then calmly walk out and head to the plane. Where was Widmore when his group was killed off? He wasn't on the sub, as we later saw, and he wasn't around the cages. I think the whole thing was staged to help gain the trust of the Candidates. As Sawyer later said "that's twice you saved our ass, guess I was wrong about you". here my theory (apologies for the length of this comment):
(cont'd)
When Ben had Widmore exiled from the Island, it was because he "broke the rules", the rules that had been laid down by Jacob. So Widmore is under the impression that Jacob is the reason he was kicked off the Island he loves so dearly.
I don't think Widmore knows that Ben has never actually spoken to Jacob in all the years that he led The Others so he still blames Jacob for keeping him away from what he wants most, The Island.
Jacob is already dead but his possible replacements are walking around as if they run this place. Smokey needs them dead to leave, Widmore needs them dead to ensure he can stay. THEIR WORKING TOGETHER!!!
The C4 was planted on the plane for Smokey to find, who rigged a damn fine bomb in a matter of minutes with only a cheap watch and some old wires from the plane (he even found a way to speed up the timer if the wires were tampered with). Widmore doesn't need the sub because he doesn't plan on leaving, hence it was blown up.
Desmond is the wild card here, I don't know what Widmore needs him for. Unless he uses Desmond's power to open a gateway whenever he needs to get back to the real world.
-last though: Poor Claire has now been left behind 4 TIMES!!! Poor girl must feel like a real unwanted stepchild.
Thats is...RAD OUT!!!
@Teebore: Definitely want more. But given that next week's episode it titled Across the Sea, we just MIGHT have some resolution as to what has been happening in the world outside the island.
It could also be a metaphorical sea, meaning the other world! Convergence begin?
Q: how do MiB/Jacob/TeenBoy all fit into this?
Can you spell 'excitement' - I guess I just did, spell check gave me a go.
@Benny:I think he knows some of them survived because his nature has not changed and he cannot escape. And obviously he knows that
You're probably right, but if that's what the writers want as a solution to Locke/MiB's knowledge of who survived the sub explosion that's pretty cheap and a cheat. And speaking of which, they are beginning to overuse MiB's invincibility to bullets a little too much. Okay, it was neat when he commandeered the Ajira airplane, but then to use it again on the dock, come on. I know he's smoke, but using this special ability is pushing it too much. We want drama, not some nifty super power.
With a candidates name crossed out, does that mean Smokie can kill them? Claire's name is crossed out, and so is Kate's. Locke does seem acceptant of Claire (at least for the moment), so unless she is a pawn to be used for the moment she definitely is back on his side.
Hurley said once more that MiB can't get off the island. MiB seems to focus on images of being a prisoner, as we saw with Richard. We've seen what a prisoner will do in Sawyer's backstory in prison. It may be that MiB has to do these things (kill off the candidates) to fulfill some requirement of the game Jacob and he are playing in order to get off the island, much like Sawyer needed to con his fellow prisoner to get free. We still don't know enough of the mythology of the story to form a coherent idea. Next week it seems that promise will be fulfilled.
Like a lot of comments, Jin speaking English through much of the final scene with Sun seemed out of place. When they switched to Korean it was more touching.
@yourblindspot: Perhaps I am misremembering, but didn't Sun have Charlie's Dexter Stratton ring?
Yes, Sun was the last person seen with the DS ring and, presumably, it sank with her or was otherwise lost/left behind during all her island crossings this season.
@Rad: When the Candidates+Kate are trapped in the cages again, Sayid shuts off the power and Smokey comes in and start crackin' skulls "Chiklis style," why do they rush out of there and start running as fast as they can?
Assuming you mean why do the Candidates start running, it's because they think, having betrayed him by stealing his boat, FLocke wants to kill them too.
@Fred You're probably right, but if that's what the writers want as a solution to Locke/MiB's knowledge of who survived the sub explosion that's pretty cheap and a cheat.
To be clear, I don't think FLocke knows exactly who survived and who didn't, just that one or more candidates did, because he still feels bound to the island.
With a candidates name crossed out, does that mean Smokie can kill them?
For what it's worth, I've always assumed as much.
Random thought while working on my blog post for this episode:
Is it possible, that in the Sideways world, Anthony Cooper is as big a conning SOB as in the island reality, but that by Locke accidentally making him a vegetable, he was unable to finish his long con against Locke?
Thus, Locke inadvertently and unknowingly spared himself the agony of getting conned by his dad, while at the same time ridding the world of a rotten man. That, for all the angst he has over crippling his father as well as himself, at least Locke gets to live believing his father is a good man, ignorant of the truth?
Teebore I like that idea.
@Teebore: Hmmmm.... That's quite interesting!
While the timing is slightlty off with the liver con and such(3 years ago), the timing could certainly be different than we originally saw.
The plane crash could have then taken a conman out of play and made Locke crippled... as he needs to be!
@Benny While the timing is slightlty off with the liver con and such(3 years ago), the timing could certainly be different than we originally saw.
Yeah, I wondered about the timing. Have we ever gotten an indication of how long Sideways Locke has been in the wheelchair? Is it possible that Cooper was in the midst of his kidney con when the plane crashed (flying with Locke was another father/son activity meant to sucker Locke into doing anything Cooper asked)?
@ Teebore:
"Is it possible, that in the Sideways world, Anthony Cooper is as big a conning SOB as in the island reality, but that by Locke accidentally making him a vegetable, he was unable to finish his long con against Locke?"
That's what I assumed. I was chuffed to see the "conning SOB" is a vegetable in the AU. Hurray!
@Kotowski said..."Is Claire going to be safe with MIB? Her name was scratched out as well, so...what's the deal, MIB?"
Claire doesn't matter in Flocke's scheme of things because of this - except as a pawn to be used. I believe he could still kill her but it would not matter to him. Kind of like the men he just killed with no thought at the plane during last night's ep.
@Kiki said..."Benny said -- 6. Locke getting everyone on the sub with the C$
I knew when Flocke helped Jack on with the pack that the explosives where in there. I called out to Jack, but he didn't hear me . . ."
Me too. I yelled really loudly to make sure he did... because the cat lying next to me jumped! At least the cat heard. LOL
@ Nikki - "I don’t know anything about submarines, but why do they dive for only 30 seconds and it’ll take 5 minutes to go back up?"
It's sound science.
A submarine is filled with hollow tubes. When they are empty (filled with just air) the sub floats on the surface like a regular boat. To submerge, a submarine opens these tubes to the outside water and they flood. There is no active work, they just open up and let the water in, the sub becomes less buoyant and dives. They merely steer the sub while it dives. When it reaches the designated depth, they close the tubes and the sub stays at that level underwater.
For a sub to rise again, that water has to be expelled from the ballast tubes. You can't just open the tubes to let the water out the way you let it in. If you did that, it would sink further. Instead you have to actually pump the water out, which means you have to expend mechanical energy that is diverted from the main engines. The water being pumped out of the tubes is being pressed against the pressure of the entire ocean above the sub, so it takes quite a bit of power and a lot more time. It's a slow process to rise, whereas diving is pretty much automatic and fast once you open the tubes.
And that's how subs work, in a nutshell, and that's why it takes much longer to rise than it does to dive.
I keep coming back to Hurley's warning about not letting the smoke monster leave the island. Is it that Smokie is the cork in the bottle (that is the island), and without him all that is evil will escape? Rousseau called Smokie the security system. Without a security system either what's inisde get out, or what's outside gets in. So it might not be that if Smokie leaves, he will wreak havoc on the world, but what else gets off the island will do so.
When I saw the mirror in the box Christian had given to Claire, and we saw both Claire and Jack in the mirror, it reminded me of Pandora's box. Claire's music box is empty, except it does contain something--a brother and sister. These are the two good things in the box that might yet save the world.
If our three amigos, Ben, Ricardus, and Miles (or on European t.v., Kilometres) were going to blow up the plane, they either didn't yet get off the main island, or where captured by Widmore. I thought they were on their way back to the barracks, last time, to get dynamite. perhaps they've now waylaid those plans for something bigger--i.e. blowing up Jughead to end it all? Jack only blew up the detonator and not the bomb. Are there more explosions ahead for us? They don't have the expertise of Sayid, and who knows where Daniel Faraday's notebook is, unless it's on Ben's bookshelf.
Interesting that in the alt timeline, Locke is both a substitute and a candidate. He accepts being one position (substitute), but refuses the other (candidate). This raises the question, could Jacob's candidates have simply refused? It seems that is a possibility with Hurley, whom Jacob met in the cab and asked him if he'd get on the plane. Jacob told Hurley it was his decision. What would happen if one of the remaining candidates simply said, I'm not a candidate anymore?
When Widmore holds a gun to Kate and says it doesn't matter whether she lives or dies, this is like Juliet holding the gun to Kate. Unlike Ben and Keamy, were Ben believed the rules would save Alex, Sawyer knows Widmore would kill Kate. He gives in, and saves Kate.
The Alt timeline is the opposite, given we've seen Cooper injured by Locke, Locke becomes paralyzed in a plane crash, Jack gets his Apollo bar, Locke does not walk at the end. the only constant is Christian's death and going missing. Also, we know Jack took flying lessons, and now alt Locke took flying lessons.
@Teebore:
That's a good question. In the original 'timeline', it must have been around three years, possibly less.
In the sideways 'timeline' it was the crash, three years back. I think figuring out how Leela - euh, I mean Helen - fits into Locke's life may be the key in determining this.
Original
1. Locke finds Cooper, does some family activity, gets conned out of a liver.
2. Locke meets Helen, is obsessed with Anthony Cooper, Helen leaves him.
3. Locke gets found by some kid who asks him about Cooper. He gets thrown out of a window, breaks his back - wheelchair.
Sideways
1. 2001, Locke and Cooper get into a plane crash. Cooper is permanently disabled, Locke in a wheelchair.
2. Oct 2004, Locke and Helen are engaged.
The two questions I have here are:
O: Do we have any time references for the original events; what's the time difference between the liver-con and the condo-fall?
S: When did Locke meet Helen in the sideways 'timeline'; before or after the crash?
@Fred: Interesting thoughts.
My only quibble - and a minor one at that - is with Smokey as the security system. That original observation came from Robert, who had either been compromised or was trying to appease a compromised Rousseau. I'm not sure we can take 'security system' as a given - but I can't say it's wrong either.
Fred said So let me get this straight. Killing the candidates (all at once or nearly) is the point of the game. If Widmore accomplishes this, he gets control of the island. If MiB accomplishes this, he gets to leave the island. But it depends on who kills them--if Widmore does it, then MiB gets no benefit. Vice versa for MiB and Widmore.
I think Widmore -- I'm assuming the two are not working together -- needs to keep the candidates alive. He threatened to kill Kate because he didn't need her anymore because her name is crossed off. Flocke needs to have all the candidates killed (he can't kill them himself) in order to get off of the island. i think the only way he knows that not all the candidates were killed on the sub is that he is still on the island.
Casey said -- And that's how subs work, in a nutshell, and that's why it takes much longer to rise than it does to dive.
This along with the dural sac/spinal surgery explanation (sorry, can't remember who supplyied that info) is why I REALLY love this forum! You are all so wonderfully smart in so many ways!
@Casey - That was a wonderful explanation! I am now going to store it and whip it out next time we have guests over.
"More wine? Say, did I happen to mention how it is a submarine dives and rises? No? Well..."
@Nikki:A preview that didn’t actually reveal a THING (all old material) but I know what it’s going to focus on. Let’s just say it might be THE episode we’ve been waiting for. (Please don’t kill off anyone, please don’t kill off anyone...)
Based on nothing but a hunch and that brief preview for next week, the nest episode will explain that the island world of LOST (indeed the whole world) is a mirage or illusion (remember that name of that boat in the episode in the harbour with Ben, Sayid and everyone). So that would mean, the Losties aren't real, in the sense that downloaded avatars aren't real. But as this is a sophisticated game, their experiences are, and this has been bleeding through into the real world (Alt timeline). Ms Hawking's caution to Desmond was to ensure the two worlds haven't any cross over in terms of memories. But they will and that will make all the difference.
LOST in many ways seems based on a concept like Jumanji. Although time seems to pass, Alan becomes an adult, when he ends the game he is transported back with Sarah to 1969, the start opf the game. Just as LOST began in 2004, we are now back at 2004, but the game still has to end for the remaining players. Considering how many candidates we saw on the wheel in the lighthouse, this game has been going on for some time (unlike Jumanji which ends, and then the next players come along). Is this why we saw Mr. Eko after his death back as a young boy with Yemi going out to play soccer? Probably.
We should notice that MiB has been proving very successful over this game. Given the number of candidates names form the lighthouse, we have to surmise they all died except for the remaining few. Some of these candidates where from the U.S. Army, and Widmore and the Others got rid of them (ironic that Richard was instrumental in this). What would have happened if Pickett had shot Sawyer? Would the gun have jammed, or would Sawyer be dead? The idea that this is all a game makes MiB's comment on Locke more telling. MiB recognizes everything is an illusion and part of the game, but Locke never did. He assumed it was all too real. he was suckered into believing the game was reality, rather than questioning his good fortune.
Which leads to Ms Hawking telling Desmond to keep pushing the button, or God help us all. By pushing the button the game would be forstalled, as 815 never would crash. Desmond may have only needed to keep pushing the button till 815 flew over the island, but he failed. There is thus an element of fate operating in the game. Fate and chance coalesce in Desmond's character. Desmond is like the joker in a pack of cards, or the "get out of jail free" card.
@Kiki:I think Widmore -- I'm assuming the two are not working together -- needs to keep the candidates alive
The way Widmore arranged things, it was like he was using the candidates as bait for MiB. He leaves C4 on the airplane, but obviously whoever did it did a crap job, with wires hanging out. He also left minimal security at the plane, and a convient wristwatch. Further, Wdmore's people show up at the sub only after the Losties get aboard. It's like Widmore is using the survivors for his own ends, and that does not necessarily involve keeping them alive. What he does need is Desmond. But then, he didn't have much protection surrounding Desmond, did he?
@benny:O: Do we have any time references for the original events; what's the time difference between the liver-con and the condo-fall?
The sequence of events occur as follows: Locke meets Emily who introduces him to his father. He is then conned out of his kidney. He then meets Helen at the anger management center. After Helen leaves him, he confronts Cooper and is pushed out the window. It was in 2000 locke was approached by Peter Talbot, who was suspicious of Cooper conning his mother.
So if that's the case, the whole sorry affair of Cooper and Locke occured before 2000, and in 2000 Locke was paralyzed. But if the air accident was in 2001, then it looks like everything changed in Locke's past. Perhaps, Anthony Cooper did con Sawyer's parents, but changed after that. Locke still may have given a kidney, but this time Cooper did not leave (I suspect, given their close relationship).
@Fred: I'd also forgotten the commune, which was post-Helen. Then 2000 is when he gets injured. So now the question that Teebore and I will ask is, how did that liver transplant go?
Did it happen or not? Was it a con that Cooper did not finish but he got closer to his son instead?
Questions with no answers I'm afraid, only speculation!
Hey Folks: I'm only getting started here, and anybody is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen Danielle's music box in quite some time. Does it resemble Claire's? Or could they be one and the same? I do remember that Danielle's had gotten dirty and had some unfortunate scratches on it, unlike Claire's. Sayid ended up fixing it for Danielle. Anybody wanna take this one?
ok, I apologize if it's been said because there are so many comments, lol, but if you have a list and you cross names off, in the end there can only be one. Now Kate was taken off for some reason, but that means she doesn't have to die like all the other candidates. I was wondering if something like this would happen, and then suddenly 3 more names are crossed off the list this week.
I could see it coming down to Jack and Smokey alone on the island. Does Jack cut Smokey a deal to save Kate and she stays with him? Does Smokey kill Kate as vengeance for eliminating his means of escape? I can see the last scene of Lost being Jack and Smokey as a mirror to Jacob and Smokey, sitting to start a new game.
Also, while I'm still trying to figure out just exactly what the hell I saw last night, these thoughts pop into my mind:
Considering that they left for the plane some time before our heroes, where in the hell were Ben, Richard, and Miles?
And at the end when they got on the sub, where was Widmore and Zoe? That part didn't make sense to me. Seems to me Widmore would not have the sub out of his sight lines.
Having a not-so-busy day at work, so I finally got to post before there were 200-odd (pun intended) comments!
Some thoughts on last night's truly astonishing, fast-paced and painfully gut-wrenching episode.
@Blam I agree that Naveen's accent went Brit a couple of times and I can't quite understand that--were they rushing through the scene?
An example of Jack/Locke mirroring in the au: Locke met Rose at the employment agency and Jack met Bernard at his dental office. Another mirroring example: Locke lost the use of his legs after a plane crash in the au and gained the use of his legs after a plane crash in the ot.
Didn't the shots of Sun being overwhelmed by the water and people trying to pull her out remind you of how Juliet kept going down, down, down the hole and couldn't be pulled out?
Not that I'm a shipper (because I want Sawyer all to myself), but Jack's new-found faith about staying on the Island and the growing possibility that he is THE one, sets the stage for Skate.
@Marshall: Yes, Ben, Miles and Richard were heading to the barracks to find explosives and guns, so it's possible that they planted the C4 in the plane...but where are they? I really miss Ben!
The plane may have been saved, but if Frank really is dead, who will fly them off the Island?
@Benny I don't think we know how or when Locke met Helen in the au or how much time elapsed between the kidney-con and the window fall, but I don't think we will ever find out in the big picture.
I can't wait until next week because Allison Janney is one of my favorite actors, and because she is so tall and regal-looking, I am thinking she is going to play some kind of goddess.
@Benny: It was a kidney, not a liver...
@Fred: Much as I like your Jumanji theory, entertaining as it is, I just don't see Lost going in that direction. It would be way too much of a cheat, a tired plot device that I just don't see these writers stooping to.
@Convergence: Surely being wrong is a major meta-theme as well? From Locke in the first season with the button ("I was wrong") to Jack and the big bomb, to Sawyer and the little bomb tonight, and even Dogen (who claimed people like Sayid infected by Flocke's influence causing their souls to flip totally to the dark side were irredeemable - we saw tonight Dogen was wrong, too and Hurley's earler Anakin hopefulness was justified after all as Sayid came back to the whole and the good).
@NurseBrian: RE: Sayid – It really felt like we had good ‘ol Sayid back this episode. Yes, it wasn’t a hero’s goodbye with hugs and tears, but dammit, he did good by me. Also, not quite the “Darth Vader redemption” I was postulating, but it’ll suffice.
Oh, but this was percisely a Darth Vader-type redemption: Sayid has that change of heart right before giving his life for his friends, as Vader has his change of heart just before giving his life for is son...now that I think about it, the "Anakin" reference should have been a huge tipoff that this was coming.
@Fred: We'd all assumed Jacob was here eternally, but no, he needs a replacement. Why?
Maybe this is Jacob's way of getting off the island permanently without releasing MiB.
Jacob was killed; that is why he needs a replacement. He knew that MiB was looking for a way to kill him, so he kept candidates around for that eventuality. The guy planned ahead.
@ Missing Georgia: John 15:13 - Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
With all of the biblical themes that play in LOST, I think this is the biblical reference that is the most important. The series and especially this episode has illustrated this scripture. I think this sacrificial love is what Jacob expected and called "progress." MIB does not have this same faith in people. Perhaps before the Losties, when Jacob and MIB were playing their "game" that the prior candidates did not demonstrate this sacrificial love for one another. That is what will make this group special and why they are the "progress" that Jacob was talking about.
That is a good point. Sacrificing one's life for one's friends has been important more than once in this series, and there are many people in this group who have been or would potentially be willing to make that ultimate sacrifice. It does make me wonder, though, about whether the people whom Jacob brought to the island in the past were just a poor representation of humanity.
@Fred: When I saw the mirror in the box Christian had given to Claire, and we saw both Claire and Jack in the mirror, it reminded me of Pandora's box. Claire's music box is empty, except it does contain something--a brother and sister. These are the two good things in the box that might yet save the world.
In the myth, the thing left in the box is hope. Is this yet another instance of foreshadowing Jack to be the final candidate? (And I gotta say: if at the end, when the final replacement for Jacob is revealed, if Richard hands him a torch, I'm gonna scream. Not in a good way.)
if our three amigos, Ben, Ricardus, and Miles (or on European t.v., Kilometres) were going to blow up the plane, they either didn't yet get off the main island, or where captured by Widmore. I thought they were on their way back to the barracks, last time, to get dynamite. perhaps they've now waylaid those plans for something bigger--i.e. blowing up Jughead to end it all? Jack only blew up the detonator and not the bomb. Are there more explosions ahead for us?
Not unless there is another a-bomb lying around. The reason that a nuke is used to trigger an H-bomb is because it requires the huge energetic output of the nuclear explosion to trigger the reaction: without that energy, you can't get it to critical mass.
Fred -- Interesting game theory. Kind of like a giant games of the Sims. You've got me thinking! Is the game just a way for people to make their lives more exciting?
Fred -- Interesting game theory. Kind of like a giant games of the Sims. You've got me thinking! Is the game just a way for people to make their lives more exciting?
I don't think Claire's music box is the same as Danielle's. Danielle's had a ballerina and supposedly played music from Carmen. Claire's didn't have a ballerina (at least I didn't see one), and played the song her dad used to sing to her.
grrrrr! -- those false post errors. Sorry for the double post!
@Benny: "But she was not scratched in the lighthouse."
My impression of that was that the lighthouse was Jacob's domain where he kept his lists and watched his candidates. The cave seemed to me to be where MIB would run to copy what he found in the lighthouse so he'd have an idea of who to look out for. Which gives Kates name more credibility as a possible candidate. Just a thought.
Although I don't think it is her. Or Jack. But my candidate is still alive as of last night.
And on that note, Child reminds me that this IS Lost, and all of them could be alive next week. She's like, "Don't you people EVER learn?"
@Benny, @Teebore - kidney, 4 yrs in wheelchair
Interesting to note that this week's LOST untangled video DOES NOT mention Lapidus' death!??
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/video/video.php?v=395249177261&ref=mf
Lots of posts!!!
Did anybody notice what was written on Damon and Carlton's board in that "behind the scenes" picture for Wired magazine came true! It mentioned the cages and Jack visiting Bernard!
Other questions I have:
Are we going to find out why Libby was in the mental hospital with Hurley?
Where's Walt and why is so special?
Why does Pierre Chang have so many names?
And...Namaste!
(my password was cropodog)
@Gracie -Child reminds me that this IS Lost, and all of them could be alive next week. She's like, "Don't you people EVER learn?"
Ha! It's true!
@Ambivalentman:
@Gracie: the Death Clock is a website that proposes to calculate the day of your demise based on information you provide (eating habits, age, smoker, etc.) I put it on my website because I think it's funny to laugh at the inevitability of it all sometimes. The date has no meaning, though. I'm sure if I used the site again, I'd get a different result.
I have a morbid sense of humor.
I also have a morbid sense of humor. So I was assuming you are a relatively young person, and I was kind of wondering: IF you are still among us on, say, July 11, 2029, what would you do that day?
Just wondering.
Jack pushing MIB into the water was a great scene. MIB acts like he knows John Locke's reasoning and personality. He thinks Locke was pathetic and stupid, but he's wrong. MIB cannot comprehend what Locke was really all about because he cannot comprehend what Jack is now all about. The Island is special, these people are special, and MIB just can't wrap his head around it. That's why the line "John Locke told me I had to stay" is so powerful. In that instant, Jack is confronting MIB and flat-out telling him that he's a fraud, and that he is NOT John Locke. He's literally wearing a disguise trying to be as influential as Locke was. This series has always had a strong theme with Jack vs. Locke, and to have Jack support Locke so strongly says so much about Locke. He was a man that no one understood, and when people tried to, they ended up hurt (Boone, Eko, Charlie). It's like Charlie said in season 1, "No offense, Jack, but if I had to put my absolute faith in one man to save us all...it'd be John Locke." This is what is happening. Locke, though dead, is still the biggest obstacle for MIB to overcome. Locke may be dead, but his influence on Jack is almost a stronger representation of who Locke is. MIB had to literally inhabit the body of another person to make progress. Locke didn't force anyone to do anything. He's "inhabiting" Jack through simple influence and the power of faith.
That's enough about me praising John Locke (I love all the characters, but if I HAD to choose a favorite, it'd be Locke). Anyway...uh...yeah, good episode!
@Kotowski: Well said! I also thoroughly enjoyed the scene; one of the highlights of the season for me.
@ANYONE: I'm hopeful I can get somebody to explain this to me. Because I'm just not getting there on my own.
Are we supposed to take from this that SAWYER actually killed the others by pulling the wires? Because it has been my understanding for a very long time that neither Jacob OR MIB could kill these people and they cannot kill themselves. As for Jacob and MIB, they may want to kill the others, but are UNABLE TO DO SO. Like it cannot be done. The Losties may WANT to kill themselves, be are UNABLE to.
So, after last night, are we supposed to take away from this that Sawyer killed those who died? Or what?
Somebody please explain this to me, or have I already got it. If I've got it, what do I have?
@ GRACIE
Sawyer is responsible for everyone dying (sorta).Jack said that MIB couldn't kill them and wanted them to kill each other. This is precisely what Sawyer does. MIB WANTED someone to remove the wires and cause the detonation to occur. Of course, you can't blame Sawyer entirely. Last time Jack asked him to trust him, Juliet died. Removing the wires was, unfortunately, justified.
@Gracie
Yes, Sawyer ultimately is responsible for the deaths we saw.
@Gracie: The way I understand it: Smokey (and presumably Jacob) cannot kill the candidates themselves. But the candidates are not invincible: they can be killed by others, Others, and themselves.
Unless, the island (a power greater than Jacob and Smokey) isn't done with them yet, in which case, they do posses a certain immortality.
I could be wrong (I'm making an assumption that the island's protection is both greater than and different than the protection afforded by the "rules" that prevent Smokey from offing candidates himself) but that's my understanding at this point.
That said, Sawyer is indirectly responsible for the deaths on the sub. Had he left the watch alone, it would have just counted down (FLocke couldn't arm the bomb himself). By pulling the wires, Sawyer armed the bomb, thus making him the finger on the trigger, so to speak, instead of FLocke, and thus, FLocke sidestepped the rules.
Last time they were locked in the cages, Kate climbed out through the top. This time, she is reaching through the bars trying to get the keys...why?
Hey guys!! I've been travelling to New York City all day and this is my first chance to really get on here!! 131 comments... man, I'd better get started. I was thinking about you all (and Jin and Sun... and then getting all welled up) while sitting on the plane, and wondering what lovely conversation you were getting up to. Here goes!!
@Rainier: This time, she is reaching through the bars trying to get the keys...why?
Too scared to think straight? Figured getting the keys would be quicker, and then once it became clear it wasn't, she was too locked into the thought of getting the keys to switch methods?
I figure the reason they didn't climb out the top from the get go was because guards were posted.
The whole thing with the bomb bothers me. Surely Said, with his knowledge of explosives,could have come up with some means of separating the watch and whatever was being used to actually detonate the C4 from the explosive...the wires were actually a means of arming the bomb, but what was actually connecting the timer (watch) to the detonator, and the detonator to the explosive?
Blam: You know, I've seen what it takes for pregnant women to negotiate themselves into and out of chairs, and I have a hard time believing that any would wear a miniskirt of the "length" that Claire is wearing. Maybe she wanted Aaron to get an early peek his Uncle Jack?
I think everyone in the hotel just heard me screech with laughter at this one. Oh Blam, you never fail to disappoint!! ;)
Sonshine: Okay, I was tearing at the Jin and Sun thing, but LOST it completely with Hurley's sobs, but you know what made me cry the hardest of all?
Your beautiful soliloquy on this post.
Aw, Sonshine, thank you. Wow. OK, getting verklempt again!!
@Rainier:if at the end, when the final replacement for Jacob is revealed, if Richard hands him a torch, I'm gonna scream
Love it. Seeing how many torches there were on the island, I have to admit it would be a metacomment to have Richard hand Jack a torch and say, you're the winner.
Also the Jumanji reference. Not that LOST is Jumanji, but perhaps the spirit of Jumanji inhabits LOST. Like, the alt timeline being the real world, and their selves on the island being not real. So which timeline is real? 2004? 2007? Some might contend both, but if only one survives, then which one would it be? I'm more and more opting for 2004 LA X timeline.
Next week, let's hope for some big answers. I don't think we'll be disappointed.
Joan: Helen says "Leave it" and then shows Jack Anthony and then what...they just had a staring contest (Cooper won, btw)
LOLZ!! Oh man, you guys are ON today!!
Lindsay: I think the significance of the music box is the song it played. It's "Catch a Falling Star", which is what Christian sang to Claire when she was a baby and what she wanted sung to Aaron by his adoptive parents (and what Kate sang to Aaron off-island).
See, why did I not hear the song? I didn't hear it playing anything... that's really weird. I must have had the volume on too low or something. I would have caught that song instantly. In fact, when she pulled it out I said to my husband, "It's going to play Catch a Falling Star" and then it didn't... as far as I could hear. Damn, must go back and watch that scene again!!
redeem: Again, sorry for your loss, hon.
Was I the only one who resented seeing that other Jin with the roses. "YOU'RE NOT MY JIN."
Yep, it felt so weird to watch him die and then have him walk by moments later, like... what??
Wow! Love yall and your comments - only through a third so far so please forgive if I step on any toes!
So i guess Jin and Sun are no longer possible candidates for Adam and Eve.
@JOAN - your whole 'stay alive to raise our child' rant - heelarious and ditto!
I kinda think Frank really did die from sub door trauma and plus, there was no one to bring him to the surface a la Hurley/Kate, Jack/Sawyer, but I'll be disappointed not to see him again in the alternative world!
Like so many before me, where in the hell are Richard, Ben and Miles? Didn't they leave Jack's group to go to the plane? Did Widmore already get them? Or Smokey? Did they build the steps to the plane? Hurry back pleeezzz!
@KOTOWSKI - "would the C4 have exploded if Sawyer didn't remove the wiring?"
I wondered the same thing - if he had trusted Jack
a la Richard and the C4 would it have somehow changed the outcome?
Numbers - In the nursing home there is an announcement for Housekeeping to dial extension 23!
Loved seeing Bernard, but yes, he was creepy and just knew too much! He drills with his right hand and writes with his left.
How easy would it be for Jack to find an 'Anthony Cooper' in LA without anymore info? That's gotta be a fairly common name.
Jack tells Claire he's sorry he had to run out on her 'the other day' - the other day means more than yesterday so did he really let two days at least go without even trying to reschedule the lawyer's appnt? Wouldn't he want to get to that asap, especially having met his new half-sister?
In the sub Jack sez there may be a shirt in his backpack to use to apply pressure to Kate's bleeding chest. What about supplying the shirt off your back, Jack, am I right, ladies?
Fake Locke is a total badass - the way he snapped that goons neck and is a dead-on sharpshooter!
Locke stopping in his tracks when Jack said 'I wish you believed me' gave me the chills!
Can't wait to read the rest tomorrow!
Music Box
As Susan said, Rousseau's music box had a ballerina in it. This one looks more like a jewelry box. There are definitely no ballerinas!
@Gracie: Yes, the cave was MiB's domain, but Widmore's list did not have Kate. And neither did the Ab Aeterno enhanced episode. It clarified (for us all) that Jacob's visit to Ilana was at a time when Locke was still alive and a candidate. [I don't see it as spoilery but rather informative]
As for being dead, no one has returned from the dead, Locke was smokey taking his form. So unless there are three other smokeys... dead is dead.
@JS: Yes kidney - I got caught on the liver because of Christian's drinking I think ;)
@Mike_D: I don't think we'll get an answer to any of these... 4.5 hours left!
Sonshine: My sister said, "Well of course he's evil. Nikki would never believe that anyone was good after they ordered someone to kill Desmond." bwa hahaha!
LOL!! And she was RIGHT! But you're right, up until now, they've created on and off sympathy for the MiB and tonight, it was pretty clear what side he was on.
Interestingly, on the plane I was reading Paradise Lost (another book, alongside The Stand, that I held off on writing about in the FL books until the final one) and Satan is a powerful, sympathetic character in the beginning of the book, with his true nature coming through by the end.
TO EVERYONE, especially, Nikki, redeem147 and Joan:
I'm passing everyone a message from my Child, age 19 going on 37.
She wishes everyone to know that when the credits roll after the very last show we will know exactly who lived and who died. And not one second sooner. She reminds me, "It only ends once. The rest is just progress." And this IS Lost, so being dead isn't the same as death as we know it.
Message has been passed.
(Child may have a point.)
@Gracie: Are we supposed to take from this that SAWYER actually killed the others by pulling the wires? Because it has been my understanding for a very long time that neither Jacob OR MIB could kill these people and they cannot kill themselves. As for Jacob and MIB, they may want to kill the others, but are UNABLE TO DO SO. Like it cannot be done. The Losties may WANT to kill themselves, be are UNABLE to.
My thoughts on this is, it's not an attempted suicide, it's just an accident that happens to kill candidates. The bomb would not have killed them, but tampering with it lead to the bomb detonating. So the INTENTION was not to kill each other, that was just the unfortunate result. I think that candidates could actually kill each other, but not themselves.
I think it has to do with INTENTIONS rather than pure results.
Greg S: I love your reviews, but I think your Jack hate is blinding you when you defend Sawyer here. If Jack is to be assigned blame for Juliet's death, then Sawyer gets the blame for Sun, Jin, Sayid, and Lapidus.
Oh my goodness, where did you get "Jack hate" from?? I don't hate Jack, never have. I know a lot of people do, and I've commented on his holier-than-thou behaviour in the first few seasons, but few scenes tear me up like the ones where he is at his wit's end, because I've always believed Jack is a good person who's always tried to do good by everyone. I've never hated Jack.
If you read my post carefully, you'll see I was explaining what happened from Sawyer's point of view, not mine. Jack didn't mean for Juliet to die, and he believed with his entire being that everything would be OK, and he really DID do something, by causing the sideways world. Jack was a hero... but tell that to Sawyer right now. Juliet just died in his arms about 3 days ago in his time. He's not going to forgive Jack or believe him again.
I certainly wasn't suggesting from MY point of view that Jack was a bad person or to blame.
And I'm not defending Sawyer. What he did was rash and infuriating to us as viewers... but also something many people would have done in that situation. I was simply explaining it from his P.O.V.
DavidB226Morris: Very beautifully put.
Convergence: Surely being wrong is a major meta-theme as well?
Absolutely! In fact, this season I've been keeping track of it in a separate file that was going to be a sidebar, but might end up being something else. Being wrong and owning up to it (or not) is essential to this show.
Nurse Brian: Your entire post made me happy, from your recap of your feelings watching the Jin/Sun scene to your comment about women giving birth, I heart that post!!!
Fred: So what does Jacob get? So far we've been told Jacob is looking for a candidate to replace him, but why? No one yet has asked this question. Does Jacob get to leave the island, go fishing, get in touch with former candidates, find a new job in LA? We'd all assumed Jacob was here eternally, but no, he needs a replacement. Why?
I took it as, as long as someone is there, the MiB cannot take over. Sort of like, as long as God is in Heaven, Satan cannot invade it. If he's gone, Satan takes over. Jacob, in this case, is like the jailer, sitting on the island and keeping the MiB in chains, and if he's not there, and no candidate can replace him, the spell is broken, and he can leave. There is obviously a supernatural element to all of this, and that could be at the heart of it.
Batcabbage: I, like your hubby, Nik, thought when I saw Locke's dad "Ha ha, eat a dick, Anthony so-called Cooper! That's what you get for being... oh, he was a nice guy? Well, that's just tragic, then."
Laugh. Out. LOUD.
Missing Georgia: Excellent writeup on the passage from the Gospel of John.
@Greg S. and Nikki re:
@Greg S. said...
Nikki,
I love your reviews, but I think your Jack hate is blinding you when you defend Sawyer here. If Jack is to be assigned blame for Juliet's death, then Sawyer gets the blame for Sun, Jin, Sayid, and Lapidus.
Please see my questions below regarding the topic of Sawyer being responsible for these deaths.
Thanks
That should have said ABOVE.
@Rainier who said: And then to dismiss his death so quickly, to have the last part of the episode so crammed together that we didn't even really get a decent death scene? No fair.
I commented some time ago about all the shoving together of the final season, but your comment above just drives it home. We have lived with these people like family for so long (many for longer than me), and don't even get a second to grieve because there's so much story they are trying to cram in. UNFAIR!!! I agree with you Rainier!
Although I'll bite my tongue on your Sawyer comment.
poggy: It might just be a red herring, but I'm crossing my fingers for Christian Shephard to be a key point in the eventual conenction between the two worlds, after having been MIA for the whole season.
I agree, poggy! I think we've talked about Christian more this season than ever before, and he hasn't appeared!!
@Joan. "Richard goes to heaven, gets Isabella, Ben is now Jacob and Miles is the new Richard. Boom! Lost!"
How odd. I've been headed down that same path for about the past hour or so. Although I've got a Candidate who is still alive, and the two don't jive, I like your idea quite a bit. And I'm holding out hope that my Candidate is WRONG!
Teebore: Is it possible, that in the Sideways world, Anthony Cooper is as big a conning SOB as in the island reality, but that by Locke accidentally making him a vegetable, he was unable to finish his long con against Locke?
I totally wondered that, too!! I actually said when my husband was talking about his comeuppance, "Or Locke lobotomized him before he had a chance to properly throw him out a window." But I do love that if fans get what they want in the SW, Cooper is a vegetable. Does this mean Nikki and Paulo are having nails pushed into their eyeballs while rats chew on their toes?! If so, the SW is a very happy place indeed!!
Wow, Casey, wicked explanation!! Thank you for that!
I found a link to a nice interview with Darlton about this episode:
http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/04/lost-producers-actors-candidate/
It is worth reading, if you want to know their thinking on this. No real future spoilers. If nothing else, here is one line (from a previous interview with Terry O'Quinn) that made me laugh: “Puffy is one nasty mo-fo.” No kidding!!!
I was just wondering if Jacob really, truly died, would that nullify (for lack of a better word) the things he's done? For example: He gave Richard eternal life. Could Richard die if Jacob did? Would his death nullify Jacob's actions?
Hmmmmm.
Thanx, Susan for clearing that up. Duh! Also, I rewatched this episode when my husband got home from work(he got home just in time to see Hurley on Jimmy Kimmel. Soooo good!)& saw the scene with Jack & Bernard. Guess I was spazzin' the first time around! Oral work, Bernard with a set of
?dentures? in his hands. Ok, what a dummy I AM!
My brain has a lot of 'freezes' lately & when someone sets me straight on things, I realize 'Hey! I knew that!' LOL!
I do appreciate those who 'set me straight' that they are kind when they give me the info! You all are great! One of a kind & I am so glad that I am on THIS blog & no where else!
THANX, Zari, for the shout out! Glad someone else agrees with me!!!
I've got a feeling Kate might be Jacob's long con on Smokey. Between the fertility situation and Smokey's potential mother issues, I think that the mother aspect will play a part in the resolution of Lost.
Just like Jacob withholding the Candidate aspect from Richard, I think he's dangling Jack in front of every one like he's the chosen one while keeping his wild card (Kate-the definitive wild card) seemingly out of play.
I think back to how Kate defined herself to "unconscious" Sawyer/Wayne(?) in the season 2 episode,"What Kate Did". Torn between the relatively positive(Sam Austen/Jack Shephard/Jacob) and relatively negative (Wayne/Sawyer/Smokey, she's always dangled in the middle of making any allegience.
Couple the lack of maternity and fertility on the island with Kate's desire to be a mother(see "I Do"), I think Jack might make the ultimate sacrifice as "Father" to the Island while Kate makes the choice to become "Mother" to the Island and restore the maternal aspects to it by finally making the "Ultimate Choice" what ever that may be.
Mother to the dead soulds of the island and mother to the new life that comes from her becoming the new "Jacob". The Smoke Monster thinking she's crossed off will never see it coming. And to think that this choice may have been set up for her since Season 2, gets me excited. The writer's have to be aware of all the misogynistic claims being lobbied at them. This may be their "Long Con" with the audience.
re Kate not climbing out of the cage like she did season 3: this time they were all put in Sawyer's old cage, which as far as I recall did not have wide apart bars. At least I remember Kate broke the lock to get into Sawyer's cage, and didn't climb into it.
Oh, did anybody else catch when Helen and Jack were going in to see Cooper and the intercom said, "Housekeeping, dial 23. Housekeeping, extension 23." ??
Another cool use of our numbers.
I’m back, and great-googly-moogly, that’s a lotta comments! Just finished catching up.
RE: Anthony Cooper - I know some people kind of mentioned this in a variation, but…. Maybe because of his vegetative state, might this be the reason why Det. James Ford can’t accurately track him down? Would he disregard him as a suspect because of his condition?
RE: Charlies DS ring – That little scene with Sun picking up his ring seemed significant enough? But after her death, is that the end of his ring too? I mean, I guess they filmed it as a throwback to what happened a few seasons back, and possibly to show some sense of continuity (“See, Charlie’s ring is THERE!”)
RE: The castaways back in the cage – What I wanted to see: (1) See Sawyer work the treat-contraption one more time [him forgetting and getting shocked again would have been HILARIOUS], (2) Sawyer looking around the cages, looking at Kate, and then saying, “HURRR, good times, eh Kate?” *elbow* *elbow*
@Nikki: Thanks Nikki! I have to say though, when I first caught the live show of a baby being born… the first thing I did after I left the hospital was go straight home to my mother and gave her a big hug and told her, “I’m sorry if I hurt you when I was born!!!”. I mean, as nurses, you try to keep composure, but when you’re witnessing some incredible things for the first time (like a vaginal delivery), you find yourself quietly screaming in the back of your head in tune with the mom pushing. YIKES!
Okay, long morning at the hospital, and full from lunch with my classmates celebrating the end of the semester. Time for a nap.
WV: undom - reform from your S&M ways
I know this was mentioned but Jack did not have anyway to find Cooper other than his name. Right? Strange that Jack found him so easy and Sawyer is jetting to Australia on false leads.
Does this mean Nikki and Paulo are having nails pushed into their eyeballs while rats chew on their toes?!
Ha! I don't know about that (we can and will dream) but I do know that the reason they went to LA was to seek cutting edge treatment for end-stage Syphilis. Sadly, at this point, there is little to be done about the repulsive, weeping, and terribly painful ulcerations. And let's not forget the brain-rot! Poor Pa-oo-low has been desperately trying to get a sip of water for days:
Doc: "Come now, Paolo, say 'drink' or no sip. You know the rules."
P: "Dra-dra-dra-dra-urghhhh!"
The really cruel part is that the doctors have resorted to strapping them to plinths while med students parade by and try not to vomit. Bonus points if you splash it on Nikki, kiddos!
So sorry Nikki and Pa-oo-low.
>:D
My thoughts on Sayid:
Desmond was the person to really get inside Sayid's head. Deep down, the true, good Sayid was always still alive inside the claimed Sayid. Spending time with his friends, and being in a situation where all of his friends would've died brought the real Sayid back. All of a sudden he was back to talking about the complexities of explosives and being a leader again. He died the best way his character could die - a soldier's death. He "took a bullet" or "jumped on the grenade" to save everyone else.
ALSO: Did anyone else notice that in the original timeline, Locke regains the use of his legs after a plane crash, and in the alternate timeline, he is paralyzed after a plane crash?
Nurse Brian: LOL!!! Both of my kids tested in the 97th percentile for head size. Then as a joke one day the doctor measured my husband's head and said it was ginormous. I glared at him and said, "You couldn't have told me this BEFORE I gave birth to TWO of those giant heads???" Hahaha!! We always joke that my son's superhero name would be Giant Noggin.
Since next week will be the Jacob/MIB backstory, I started thinking about what them and what major questions are still unanswered.
I think MIB and Jacob may be brothers who were raised on the Island, and that Adam and Eve may be their parents. After all, Adam and Eve are holding black and white rocks, so they have some connection to a Man in Black and a Man in White. Anyone else think this could be a possibility?
@DavidB226Morris whose beautiful words above should be read by everyone. In his writing he includes this, ".....but for some reason the deaths of the characters on this series are hitting me a lot harder than any tof the others. I'm trying to figure out why (and not just because this is a site devoted to Lost)....."
I was thinking along these lines (sort of) when I read Nikki's beautiful coverage of the episode (which I can't quite finish because I cry every time I start reading it again).
IMHO the reason for it is because the show has given us so much. Unlike other shows, Lost has allowed us to peak into their childhoods as well as other aspects of their lives through the use of flashbacks. And we've come to know each of them as individuals, like our neighbors or friends or something. In other shows somebody may tell a very long story about their childhood or a significant moment in their life, but with Lost we get to live that with them, and to see it from their eyes. At times, we see that one story has two sides such as Jack's version of "counting to five", and the other version which told us that Christian taught him that. (I believe that was relayed to us by Christian himself at some point.) This puts a unique spin on the show that I have never seen before, and I don't expect to see it again in quite the same way. Lost will make history for bringing us this way of "knowing" a character and making them real. In order for another show to get us to know the characters as well as Lost has, they would have to spend ten years to do what Lost has done in six. IMHO
Convergence said...
Awesome episode - but too hurried. I'm starting to fear now that with some of the many mysteries we fans have wondered about over the years they will either be left un-addressed, which would suck, or hurried through/talked through, which also would suck.
And doesn't that, all by itself, just make you wanna crawl under a blanket and have a good long cry for all the things we will never know?? I was so afraid of this.
@SuperBad who said: Lastly, why does anyone even question jack being THE candidate. He was the first person we saw on this show, it has always Been jack vs lock. So why not the end?
I only started to question it because it seems so damn obvious that it IS Jack that I had to consider what if it wasn't? So I looked around at the other candidates, and ended up with another one who has said things in the past that left me believing that it could be him/her. But as I've often said, I really hope I'm very wrong.
WV: dumbo. A really great idea for an animated movie! We could get Walt Disney to do it, and maybe it would star.......I don't know.....an elephant?
@Nurse Brian who said: - "I don’t want Lapidus to die with such… abbreviated lines. “Aww, hell.”
I could not possibly agree with you more!! What a waste of a perfect actor cast as the perfect character in a perfect show!! Everybody else I may be sad to see go, but I know each of them had their day and time. But Frank was just poorly under-used.
Damn - I was sure Lapidus was the Candidate. Here's why - he wasn't flying the Flash Sideways plane and every other semi-major character has had a flash sideways appearance.
He was supposed to fly the Oceanic flight - after the crash Smoky (presumably) took out the pilot (who was supposed to be Lapidus).
Finally, the writers may have flagged him why Ilana was speaking and mentioned him as a candidate.
The thought is - you have to die in original world to go to the happier sideways world, but one needed to stay behind (Lapidus).
Anyway, I'm not convinced he's dead, but if so, I'm bummed.
When does SMLocke assemble the bomb? He shows the C4 to everyone at the plane )it was not put together then), they go to the sub where everyone is together, & he swaps packs. He had to put the C4 together with the watch and the battery (where did he get that?) and set it up to explode if the wires were disconnected. How does he know how to do this (it is a bit of a trick, I should think), and when does he have the time???
I'm upset that Sun was so poorly used this season. At the end of last season, she was so tough, and I really liked her that way. I kept thinking that we'd see that side of Sun again, but the writers seem to have just dropped that element of her character. And that is a real shame.
@EVERYBODY: Does anybody know where we are supposed to "assume" Bernard, Rose and Vincent are as of this episode? Alive? Dead?
Last time I remember seeing them was when Juliet, Kate, Sawyer, and a few others passed through where they had made their home, and Rose offered them tea. I don't recall what year that was supposed to be at that time. 1977?
WV: inear. Where my Mom always said you're not supposed to stick your elbow?
This episode made me miss my other favorite show "Pushing Daisies" even more. I wish Ned could have come and touched Sayid so that Zoe could have died!
@Nikki: I don't know a thing about putting a book together or how publishing works or anything else along those lines. But may I say now that I hope Finding Lost: Season Six is about 5,000 pages long and answers every single question you have managed to find. As a reader and follower of this show (and your books), I'd also appreciate it if you would point out things that are "assumed" to be figured out, and just any little question you can find to answer. You could even go on ad nauseum about things we should have learned from the show. Obituaries. Lists. Your usual summaries of the books from the show. Many, many pictures. And any little thing you might be able to pick up on where these actors may be going from here. As the proud owner of all your other Lost books, I'll pay extra to own this one. A LOT extra. Just give me many, many pages!!!
The reason: After Finding Lost: Season Six, what is left to look forward to as far as Lost is concerned? THAT will be the official "THE END".
If'n I don't stop readin' and start replyin', I ain't never gonna get back into the conversation...
Nikki: Oh my GOD they had to show the hands.
That was a nice touch, or whatever the less ghoulish way of saying what I mean would be. 8^)
Nikki: And when I finally got my sobs under control, HURLEY started sobbing and I was a mess all over again.
While the hands were the clincher, this was the capper. Something about how Jorge Garcia broke down reminded me of seeing loved ones do the same — and it stabbed me hard in the heart. I've seen people heave their whole bodies wailing, and I've seen quiet tears streaming down a face, but film and television dramas almost exclusively go one of those showoffy routes instead of what we saw Hurley do — cry real, spontaneous tears that risk looking fake instead of indulge in over-the-top hysterics.
VW: yediv — 1. Opposite of yemult, learnt after yeadd and yesub. 2. Fourth planet from the star Yed.
Nikki: So in this episode Jack seems to be putting together that something odd is happening. He hasn’t been hit by true love or a near-death experience, but he’s just using his own powers of deduction and, methinks, a faith he has in this world that he doesn’t have in the original timeline.
I have nothing to add here but Yup.
Nikki: Christian died exactly the same way in both worlds. Significant?
You weren't the only person to say this, but, at the risk of being pedantic, I don't think that it was exactly the same way. Didn't he originally die in his hotel room? Here it was in the alley next to the bar. Maybe the circumstances were virtually the same, but we've seen other stuff that fits that bill, like conversations on the plane only being a little off; had Christian really died "exactly the same way in both worlds" (or if I'm misremembering) then, yes, probably significant. And for the record, I still think that it's highly possible that his missing body in the alternate timeline is very significant.
Nikki: The scene of Jin and Sun chatting in the cages is so sweet. The reunion just didn’t get to me the way I wanted it to (mostly because I thought they were about to be zapped by that fence!!) and so this episode fulfilled the reunion fantasy I really wanted for so long.
Again, Yup. Have you considered writing about this show professionally?
VW: pressho — 1. Magic word of a drunk magician. 2. Call girl catering to journalists.
@Blam: He wasn't in his hotel room. He had left his wallet and keys in his room, and that was something Jack and/or the attendant noticed that.
@Fred who said: "Question: So how does Mib/Locke know the sub sank and some made it out, but he doesn't realize that Desmond is still alive? Come on writers, that's a big mistake."
At me: DUH!! Excellent catch there Fred. And thanks for pointing that out!
Benny: He wasn't in his hotel room. He had left his wallet and keys in his room, and that was something Jack and/or the attendant noticed that.
Aha! I recline corrected.
Nikki: That rosewood box ... had a mirror in it, and notice at first it showed both of them, and then the camera turns so Claire disappeared and it was only Jack. A foreshadowing of something happening to Claire Bear?
I think that at first it only showed Claire, after which the camera panned over so that they were both in the mirror, and then it only showed Jack.
Nikki: Seriously, WHY are Jin and Sun speaking English??!!
Uh... Jeremy Bentham told them they had to?
Nikki: “Because it’s going to be you, Jack.” What the WHAT?! Did Sayid just reveal who the candidate actually is?
I took that as Sayid telling Jack that it was going to be him rescuing Desmond, not necessarily that it was going to him out of all of them who was the group's and indeed the Island's ultimate savior. Middle ground there is that he meant that it was going to be Jack who triumphed over Smokey, in the sense of saving their mutual friends but not in the sense of replacing Jacob, which might have been part of what Jack was taking in at the end of the episode. I'm not sure that Jack has made the leap yet from accepting that he has unfinished business on the Island to the fact that he or one of the others may actually assume the position of its guardian/caretaker/vessel/whatever.
Nikki: The guy on the sub looked like Radzinsky!
Didn't he? I made that Hanna-Barbera cartoon double-take noise — if I see you on Friday, I'll do it for you in person (calm down, Joan).
VW: ectyr — Spiritual manifestation of the Norse god of war.
Did anyone else notice the elderly woman where Anthony Cooper lives smile at Jack and check him out? That was hilarious.
Also, I'm fearing for Kate's life now. MIB grabs his rifle at the end and means to do some dirty work, but he can't kill Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, or Desmond (presumably), so to quote Jack, "Dammit Kate, run!"
@Gracie: At times, we see that one story has two sides such as Jack's version of "counting to five", and the other version which told us that Christian taught him that. (I believe that was relayed to us by Christian himself at some point.)
It is a universal truth that every story has at least 2 sides. Lost is not the only show ever to show us more than 1 side of a story, but they certainly have done so more often :). In the story that you are referencing here,Christian did not merely "teach" Jack this technique, he ordered him to do so, telling him he had to calm down and embarrassing him in front of the whole team. They then had a confrontation about it. We saw this in the season 5 finale, where Jacob is going around touching the Losties in the flashback, because he comes to Jack right after this confrontation and gets Jack's candy bar for him.
VW: murgerm: the seed of rage that grows in a person's mind, resulting in homicide.
Marebabe: And Frank?
What about Frank? 8^) No, seriously, I think that he kinda got short shrift; we at least could've seen him struggling hard to do... I dunno... something at the end. Then again, this is Lost; while on most shows you might not believe someone's dead until you see the body, on this show, you'd better believe that if someone is dead you're going to see their body, again, upright, either talking to Hurley or appearing in the other timeline or both.
Pete: The opening scene in episode one of season one is Jack waking up after the crash. He is THE ONE.
Not bad for a character who wasn't supposed to survive the pilot episode...
Joan: they just had a staring contest (Cooper won, btw) /
"Do you think I'm pretty Jack? I mean, really, now that Sun's gone, am I the prettiest? Tell me I'm smart."
My laptop has you to thank for getting sprayed with Diet Cherry Dr. Pepper, Joanie Maroney. Twice.
Batcabbage: "Oh, I'm just out for a run, you know. Saw you guys in a cage, checked to make sure you and Sawyer weren't boning, thought I'd let you out."
And once more, with feeling, Herr Fledermauskraut.
LoyallyLOST: Also, you wrote about Sun & Jin speaking English. I think the writers did this so we could concentrate on them instead of reading what they were saying.
Then it backfired, because Daniel Dae Kim does such a good job of making even Jin's improved, three-years-in-Dharmaville English sound like a second language via over-pronunciation that I was distracted by the effort that it sounded like the characters were making to communicate.
VW: dingic — Of or relating to dingoes: "The main reason why Claire wanted Aaron to be adopted by a couple in the States was Australia's noted problem with dingic infanticides."
@Blam, Nikki: When Sayid says "It's going to be you, Jack", I agree that he is referring to Jack rescuing Desmond from the well, but I also think they may be foreshadowing Jack being the replacement for Jacob.
In th4e plane, when SMocke sees the wires that lead to the explosive, I thought it was very careless of Widmore & co. to make it so obvious. I mean, that really kind of put the 'b' into 'subtle. Couldn't they have hidden it a little better?
VW: pecino: a diminutive of one of Sawyer's nicer physical features.
@Anonymous who said: So, did Smokey kill all Widmore's guys? Widmore himself? We better not be robbed of a final Ben/Widmore confrontation.
I hope Widmore dies slowly, with flashes before HIS eyes of the pain, unhappiness, and despair that he personally has caused others. And I'd like him to know in his own mind at that last second that his life was nothing more than his own pipe dream and abuse of others. I would be overcome with glee if Ben, the "BOY!" were the one to do that. (Spouse always says to the TV, "I got your BOY, hanging right here!") And I hope it's just as fun to watch as Nikki's (among many others, including me) final wishes for Zoe. I wonder if they're a couple? They deserve each other.
JS: Um, Jack cries in every episode.
Indeed he does. 8^) My point was that this time was different. He's begun accepting his position as a man apart, not just licking (or stitching) his wounds with Kate in the jungle away from the group but distancing himself even from Kate as he realizes that he's not going to be with her or anyone again if he sees this through.
VW: joilty — Dyslexic cheerfulness.
This is a small nitpick, but one that really did aggravate me: after the beautiful, heart-wrenching Sun & Jin death scene, when they faded to black, they should have held it there at least a couple more beats before cutting to commercial. Preferably longer. The transition as is was just too abrupt.
VW: refisa - a denial of an entry permit into a country.
@BlamL VW: dingic — Of or relating to dingoes: "The main reason why Claire wanted Aaron to be adopted by a couple in the States was Australia's noted problem with dingic infanticides."
Oh, Blam, I always love your VWs so much - but I loved this one more than usual.
VW: frosters - 1. a cold Australian beer 2. a surfer nickname for our favorite snowman
@ Batcabbage said...
I loved this episode. I squee'd many times (Jack's 'What happened, happened', the return of Katey Sagal, who I shall crush on until I die).
If that's the case, I most certainly hope you have been watching her on Sons Of Anarchy on the F/X channel here in Ohio. I've known her as Peg from Married.....With Children, and now Helen from Lost, but she HAS NEVER BEEN BETTER than Gemma on SOA. (Also stars Ron Perlman as her husband.)
If you've missed it, Child says you can see it here after downloading the player:
http://veehd.com/search?q=sons+of+anarchy
Word of advice: Start from the very beginning; Season One, Episode One. Excellent story so far, but it's only two seasons old.
@ninja raiden: I've got a feeling Kate might be Jacob's long con on Smokey. Between the fertility situation and Smokey's potential mother issues, I think that the mother aspect will play a part in the resolution of Lost...
This whole post is an excellent theory Could happen...
(I wanted #200), or I'd have written more...)
Poggy: as if the loyal fans that followed the show until the end needed to get didascalic explanations now
Not only did I not know the word "didascalic", my beloved Dictionary app did not know it either. I kinda got it from context, but I Googled it to make sure in case it was Italian or something. Anyway, yeah, I hear you; I still shudder thinking about Hurley's "Oh, gosh, I think I know what them whispers is" line, with its big neon arrow flashing "Woo! Git Yer Revelations Here!"
Poggy: @Blam [May 5, 2010 12:06 AM], it's true that the Lost fandom hasn't been as vocal about it as others would have, but I've definitely seen criticism about the way female and PoC characters have been handled throughout
You mentioned the Harold Perrineau situation and, yeah, I remember that, but what's most surprising about what I pointed out is that Lost from the beginning had far more racial/international diversity, if not gender equality, than most American prime-time TV series. While it's always shown the white guy(s) in the lead role, from Jack to Locke to Sawyer to Ben to even Jacob, giving relative prominence to a Korean couple and a Frenchwoman and a former member of the Iraqi Republican Guard was admirable — so seeing the nonwhites get stripped away from the core cast at the climax just did not compute, if only because it seems sure to become a topic of conversation. One could say that we're failing to be color-blind and gender-neutral by pointing this out, but (1) that's a tricky argument given how lopsided things stand now in terms of how the bodies are stacked and (2) European-American Jacob? Really?
Benny: oh... Blam, there is at least one Hispanic left, Hurley, so...
This is why I said "mostly lily-white, all American candidates".
VW: loust — Probable state of Claire's jungle mullet.
@ninja raiden: Couple the lack of maternity and fertility on the island with Kate's desire to be a mother(see "I Do"), I think Jack might make the ultimate sacrifice as "Father" to the Island while Kate makes the choice to become "Mother" to the Island and restore the maternal aspects to it by finally making the "Ultimate Choice" what ever that may be.
Mother to the dead soulds of the island and mother to the new life that comes from her becoming the new "Jacob". The Smoke Monster thinking she's crossed off will never see it coming. And to think that this choice may have been set up for her since Season 2, gets me excited. The writer's have to be aware of all the misogynistic claims being lobbied at them. This may be their "Long Con" with the audience.
I like this train of thought, but don't necessarily think that Kate has to actually be the candidate for this to work. Should Jacko (as expected) wind up being the replacement for Jacob, Katie could still stay, and potentially they could have a child, which might even "heal" whatever it is about the island that kills pregnant women. Their child could indeed then ultimately wind up being the new Jacob, with Jack sort of holding the position until said child could take over.
And should they have 2 children, they might even wind up replacing both Jacob and MiB, making Jack & Kate the next Adam & Eve.
A bit out there, I know, but it's a fun thought.
VW: weente - the Taco Bell Chihuahua's word for past tense of "go"
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