tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post2994460708342604933..comments2024-02-04T05:13:04.501-05:00Comments on Nik at Nite: Lostaholics Anonymous: Week 3Nikki Staffordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04463618183850438914noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-55441546430549485212010-10-11T16:15:45.896-04:002010-10-11T16:15:45.896-04:00Haven't read all the comments yet, but here...Haven't read all the comments yet, but here's my two cents anyway. Saddest for me:<br /> Sun & Jin's death, and the scene on the beach afterward when Hurley and Kate start sobbing. <br /> Sun & Jin's first farewell, when he leaves on the raft in season 1.<br /> Sun and Jin's, and Rose's and Bernard's, reunion in season 2.<br /> Juliet's fall.<br /> Locke's weeping when he first sees the wheelchair he'll be consigned to (right after the fall from the building).<br /><br />Boy, did I spend a lot of time crying while watching this show! Worth every tear.JenniferSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-52066730935992484852010-10-09T22:25:09.696-04:002010-10-09T22:25:09.696-04:00I'm back (and still egregiously late. But bett...I'm back (and still egregiously late. But better late than never I say :)<br /><br />@LRTFaraday - Yes, yes, yes - that scene where Ben is all, No one else will have me, had me SOBBING (and telling the tv that he could totally be on my team ;)<br /><br />@sk - ooh, another one that really got to me. How Alex just begged Ben to do something. So heartbreaking.<br />And @Nikki - that scene of Ben saying good-bye to Alex turns me into a puddle every time.<br /><br />Here's one that no one has mentioned, but that always makes me cry is when Shannon gets shot. I know a lot of people didn't like her, but we were finally getting to see her past and she had finally found someone to believe in her and then she dies so needlessly and *sniff sniff*<br /><br />All right, enough tears for tonight.Rebecca T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11994380364321336824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-36611276753621098442010-10-09T13:28:27.611-04:002010-10-09T13:28:27.611-04:00didn't have time to read them all yet, but wan...didn't have time to read them all yet, but wanted to say this really quickly before I forgot.<br /><br />One of the absolute saddest scenes for me is when Sun is screaming for Jin as the helicopter takes off from the freighter. It is absolutely gut-wrenching. That and the scene with her and Hurley at Jin's graveside. *sob*Rebecca T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11994380364321336824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-68520860264956850222010-10-09T08:38:15.065-04:002010-10-09T08:38:15.065-04:00Just finished rewatching Season 3 last night. All...Just finished rewatching Season 3 last night. All I can say is Charlie!! sniff, sniff . . . . .sob, sob . . . . lots and lots of tears. <br /><br />Watching the whole season so quickly and to see Charlie's "transformation", and then . . . heartwrenching.<br /><br />This IS my top sad moment of Lost. No contest. Sun and Jin run second, but for me this was beyond words. Getting teary-eyed again thinking about it!Kikinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-90978621647796089672010-10-08T18:29:39.331-04:002010-10-08T18:29:39.331-04:00Something else re. Charlie's death. For the l...Something else re. Charlie's death. For the longest time I kept wondering, like all of you, why Charlie had to die. All he had to do was run out and shut that door behind him and the water would have stayed contained. But upon re-watching (thanks again for the clip, Nikki), he did it to save Desmond. Once Desmond heard Charlie say Penny's name, he started heading for that room and was trying to get to Penny's voice. Charlie then saw Patchy and realized that if he didn't shut that door and lock it to keep Des out, Des would have gone in there and tried to talk to Penny and HE would have died. Without Desmond, everyting would be lost. So kudos to Charlie for the sacrifice. He didn't just do it to fulfill Desmond's profecy, he did it to save his friend. Ah, Cha'lie. We luv ya.Lisa(until further notice)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-48103899322362092632010-10-08T17:38:33.928-04:002010-10-08T17:38:33.928-04:00One of the saddest for me was the cliff scene in T...One of the saddest for me was the cliff scene in THE END. Jack's been mortally wounded. He's bound and determined to keep the island from sinking. First he says his goodbyes to James:<br /><br />"Good luck to you, James."<br />"Thanks, Doc. For everything."<br /><br />Then Ben says if the island's going down, he's going down with it.<br /><br />Then Hurley says he's with Jack, and Jack knows that's just what needs to happen.<br /><br />Then on to Kate:<br />"Kate, you gotta go...and get Claire on that plane."<br />"Tell me I'm gonna see you again."<br />Nothing but a negative look from Jack, and they both know that's IT.<br />The kiss...and Kate: "I love you."<br />Jack: "I love YOU."<br /><br />OMG. I was sobbing at this scene. Also because Sawyer was witness to it all. It really WAS Jack and Kate at the end. SIGH.<br /><br />And finally...Jack and Hurley at the cave when he tells Hurley that he's going in alone. Hurley tells him that the island needs him. Jack says "It needs you...it needs to be you, Hugo." WAAAAAA....sob.Lisa(until further notice)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-100891446475452122010-10-08T15:34:19.347-04:002010-10-08T15:34:19.347-04:00So many lump in the throat moments, but for outrig...So many lump in the throat moments, but for outright sobbing so hard I might disturb sleeping family, there were three.<br /><br />l. Yes, of course, Charlie's death in the Looking Glass, catalyzed by the reaction of Desmond looking through the porthole, powerless to help.<br />2. Charlie again, in the finale reunion. Oh my. Claire looks up from table 23 at the stage. Flash of recognition. Aaron is born, an emotional Kate assists. Then, Charlie, moments before an embittered man, now overwhelmed by love. The cry. Ahhhh. Great acting by DM.<br />3. Jack and Christian hug. I'd been waiting for this since White Rabbit, when young, beat-up Jack looked up at dick-Dad, then to that clinking glass, with that I-really-really-want-a-hug-but-i- guess-I'm-screwed look, finally, finally, gets that hug. Wow, MF, your sobbing made ME sob. Great stuff.Linda345https://www.blogger.com/profile/14686832191040401466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-70191557254580660792010-10-08T14:37:54.967-04:002010-10-08T14:37:54.967-04:00The hardest moment for me is still from season 1. ...The hardest moment for me is still from season 1. "Deus Ex Machina" conclusion finds Locke pounding on the Hatch, screaming at the Island: "I did what you told me!" This, paralleled with the story of his stolen kidney, just crushed me. It mirrored the relationship I had with my now deceased father (nothing as dramatic as a stolen kidney, thankfully) and the way it played out in my relationship with God. Every time I see it, my eyes burn, my gut twists and I break down.Ambivalentmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12340690686932188014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-3618078635999124772010-10-08T12:46:10.465-04:002010-10-08T12:46:10.465-04:00@Nikki: While you have rightly focused on the sadd...@Nikki: While you have rightly focused on the sadder moments of the show, the hard to endure deaths of favorite characters and moments of love lost for the misguided motivations of characters regarding their fate, I think it is worth mentioning those happy deaths which made us go, "What the !!!!" and then burst out laughing. <br /><br />The first of these was Doctor Arzt and the comment by Hurley, "a little Arzt". Of course, there must be an Emmy in there for Frogurt and the flaming arrow. And who didn't cheer when Phil gets his rod stuck in him at the Swan construction site. And who cannot forget, Tricia Tanaka and the meteorite? Not to mention Juliet's husband and that bus? These moments may have the humour of death akin to the Addams family, but they were so outrageous and funny and dark that who could not help themselves? On balance there have been as many of these outrageous and darkly humourous moments as there have been deeply emotional and sorrowful moments. <br /><br />Freud notes in "Beyond the Pleasure Principle" the nature of the death-drive, how each organism wends its own way towards a state of least tension, the inorganic state (death). Intertextually behind the story of LOST lies all those horror movies in which a group beats death only to have death hunt them down. Indeed, a Freudian reading of LOST would focus on Jack and the death-drive which ends the story with Jack closing his eye. This is why there have been so many deaths in the show, both those outrageous, darkly comic ones and those deeply emotional ones; they are all preparation for the most timely death, that of Jack's. The philosopher Wittgenstein made a profound comment: When a friend dies, an individual is lost; when I die, the world is lost. It is therefore a propos that when Jack closes his eye, the "world" dies for us equally.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474623954925835867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-33428271672716341722010-10-08T10:09:03.127-04:002010-10-08T10:09:03.127-04:00@LittleMo: I always thought that the temple group ...@LittleMo: <i>I always thought that the temple group were well introduced, had lots of characters and potential in there for good plot lines and bam - smokey comes along and annihilates them all after only a few episodes. <br /><br />That one I put down to the studios and money men not Damon and Carlton.</i><br /><br />Personally, I do blame Darlton for the underdevelopment of the whole temple/Dogen storyline. They knew exactly how many episodes they had left to finish their story long before Dogen showed up, but they introduced him and all the trappings of the temple anyway, which means they either didn't really realize how little time they had left or didn't care, neither of which is a very enticing option. <br /><br />@Fred: <i>I am convinced at times that we have to admit the writers sometimes goofed in their plotting the story.</i><br /><br />Oh, definitely. <br /><br />And really, legitimate goofs and ideas dropped or changed by circumstances out of their control (Eko, Walt) don't bother me too much (sh*t happens, even to the best of shows), though I'll still definitely notice them. <br /><br />No, what really bugs me are the things which seemed like goofs, but when asked about them by fans, Darlton said "no, that's not a goof, we'll address it" and then didn't. <br /><br />Fine, if you don't want to admit you made a mistake, just say 'no comment'. But don't make us think things are part of your grand plan when, with the benefit of hindsight, it's clear it never was. <br /><br />Walt is a great example of handling it correctly. As frustrating as his relatively aborted storyline is, it's not that big a deal for me because Darlton came out and said "sorry, the actor just grew too fast, and we had to cut his storyline short". <br /><br />That sucks, but it's out of their control, and at least they were honest about it, allowing us to temper our expectations accordingly.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-26936765329253222442010-10-08T04:14:01.163-04:002010-10-08T04:14:01.163-04:00and talking of plot lines not fully exploited I al...and talking of plot lines not fully exploited I always thought that the temple group were well introduced, had lots of characters and potential in there for good plot lines and bam - smokey comes along and annihilates them all after only a few episodes. <br /><br />That one I put down to the studios and money men not Damon and Carlton. They had to finish the series in so many episodes and didn't have time to fully exploit the potential that this new plotline gave them. <br />Like who was Dogan, how did he get to the island and how does he know so much about it? Has he been down the well and seen the golden light ?<br /><br />Oh - so many questions still!<br />I'm a bit with Teebore and find the number of these questions at times quite frustrating.LittleMonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-79754822205600472422010-10-07T19:52:52.051-04:002010-10-07T19:52:52.051-04:00@Quarks and Teebore: I am convinced at times that ...@Quarks and Teebore: I am convinced at times that we have to admit the writers sometimes goofed in their plotting the story. The Desmond vision of Aaron and Claire is likely one of them, and so the writers just swept over it hoping fans would resolve it in their own way. <br /><br />By the by, there are a series of books by John Sutherland which deals with literary "oops" that seem to crop up in even the best of novels, plays etc. There is also another critique of the logic of Holmes in the Baskerville's case. In time I suspect we'll all come to realize there have been a number of "oops" moments in the writing of LOST. Like really, was Eko supposed to have had a greater role in the series than he did? Why the goof up with Malcom Kelly and the growth spurt? Why the references each season to Boone, when the character was elimintated early on? And what were the writers thinking when they introduced Widmore and Chloe in the final season--the story of a non-story?Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474623954925835867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-79996838571657719072010-10-07T19:05:30.088-04:002010-10-07T19:05:30.088-04:00Does anyone else think that Pierre Chang took an o...Does anyone else think that Pierre Chang took an opportunity to pay it forward when he made his wife leave the island with baby Miles before The Incident ?<br /><br />After being misled by his mother to believe that Dr. Chang abandoned them, Miles realizes the reason why his father made them leave. He witnessed the true fatherly bond of Dr.Chang holding him as an infant, reading him "Me and My Polar Bear."<br /><br />It was a nice touch that Miles was the one to save his life, before The Incident, and calling him Dad.sknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-49506454696744189642010-10-07T19:02:47.694-04:002010-10-07T19:02:47.694-04:00@Quarks: Those are all good explanations (I've...@Quarks: Those are all good explanations (I've particularly always liked the idea that Desmond saw Aaron getting on a helicopter and didn't realize it was with Kate and not Claire), I just wish the show had told us, at some point, which, if any, of those explanations was correct, instead of leaving it up to us to speculate and theorize after the whole story had been told. <br /><br />I know a lot of people enjoy doing that, and I certainly did too, while the story was still being told, but all my theorizing and speculating was predicated on the fact that, at some point, I'd find out whether my theories and speculations were correct and for a lot (most) of them, that hasn't proven to be the case. <br /><br />I'll gladly theorize and speculate and debate meaning and theme and motivation for hours on end, but I believe I shouldn't have to theorize and speculate about plot once the entire story has been told.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-90636987598829551972010-10-07T18:58:07.150-04:002010-10-07T18:58:07.150-04:00I was saying to a friend of mine the other day how...I was saying to a friend of mine the other day how it was weird that even though Lost finished months ago, seeing the last scene in the finale still sends me into a teary mess as if the finale played just a few minutes ago.<br /><br />The character of Jack and the masterful acting of his character by Matthew Fox was the main reason I watched Lost and of course Jack's death in the end, while "expected" was nonetheless a shock when it actually happened.<br /><br />Other Jack scenes which made me sad include the one where, in the jungle, Sawyer told Jack about meeting a doctor at the airport who had a son he was very proud of..<br />The scene when Boone died was very emotionally exhausting. Jack is trying to move heaven and earth to save him but Boone finally says to him to let him go.<br />As Jack was closing Boone's dead eyes and crying, I was a mess myself...Who says big boys don't cry!<br />So may other scenes!<br /><br />I look forward to the jack chat tomorrow!LostBoyJackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09769611430327118393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-55839682686374428472010-10-07T18:54:50.576-04:002010-10-07T18:54:50.576-04:00Just thought I'd weigh in on the whole Charlie...Just thought I'd weigh in on the whole Charlie's death topic. Having watched the whole series now, one way of seeing it is that Charlie had to die in order for the freighter folk to get to the Island. It's not illogical to assume that some of the freighter folk were candidates, especially as some of their names were on the cave and/or in the lighthouse. Thus, Jacob would have brought them to the Island deliberately, and would have needed to ensure that they could get to the Island. It's possible that Jacob (or the Island itself) could have sent Desmond the vision so that Charlie could turn off the jamming equipment. After all, Charlie was probably the only person who could get the password.<br />As for why Aaron and Claire did not get on the helicopter together, as in the vision, I think there are various possible reasons. Perhaps the vision was deliberately misleading, and was not showing the future but only what Desmond needed to see in order to convince Charlie to switch off the jamming equipment. One possible piece of evidence in support of this theory is that, from what I remember, Desmond saw Charlie pushing a button and switching the light off, not entering a password. So Desmond's vision would never be possible, whatever happened.<br />Alternatively, perhaps Desmond or Charlie, or even someone like Mikhail, did something which changed the future, so the vision didn't happen like it was supposed to. It sort of reminds me of Schrödinger's Cat, except in this case the future both happened and didn't happen until Charlie actually got down to the Looking Glass (or maybe before that) and forced the universe to decide whether this future was going to happen or not, and whether the jamming equipment was going to have a button or a password. But either way, Charlie's death was inevitable, as the Island was finished with him.<br />Or, Desmond just misunderstood his vision. Maybe he saw Aaron getting on the helicopter and assumed Claire was with him, when it was Kate or Sun.Quarksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-8772960801959906802010-10-07T18:50:07.521-04:002010-10-07T18:50:07.521-04:00@Fred: Well said (as always) and while I don't...@Fred: Well said (as always) and while I don't disagree with anything you wrote, it doesn't change the fact that the circumstances of Charlie's death stand out as an instance where the writers set something up without knowing exactly how they were going to pay it off (which in and of itself isn't a problem) and then, when it became clear the details of the payoff varied from the details setup, failed to account for that discrepancy (which, for me at least, is a problem). <br /><br />Instead they left it for intelligent and eloquent fans like you and Nikki to account for the discrepancy which, while fun and enlightening in its own right, still strikes me as a bit disingenuous. <br /><br />But that's my hang-up.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-44709432462775680442010-10-07T15:20:53.865-04:002010-10-07T15:20:53.865-04:00@Teebore:Charlie died specifically to bring about ...@Teebore:<i>Charlie died specifically to bring about a vision of Desmond's, and that vision never came true...for some reason.</i><br /><br />I'm with you on this one, and I don't try to reconcile it with leaving the island at different times. Instead, I see it as one of the harsh "truths" about LOST, that not all hoped for resolutions, prophecies, or visions have a happy ending. We have to admit to ourselves, Locke died never understanding. Truly it makes the arc of Locke's life a very sad affair. Similarly, Faraday is killed by his mother, and his hope of resolving the problem goes unfulfilled (the solution was never in Faraday's hands, but in Jack and the fellow survivors). Perhaps Faraday moved things a little forward to get Jack et al. in position to act, but from what we had been led to believe it was more that Faraday had a real plan. <br /><br />So when we look at these poignant deaths mentioned here, we have to ask are they part of the "harsh truths" of the island. Possibilities of love and redemption are cut short, like Libby and Shannon. And what a surprise it was when Michael shot Ana Lucia--of course there had not been enough time for audeince identification so we didn't feel her passing as deeply as Libby's. <br /><br />Boone's death was so poignant and such a shock coming so early (audiences still expected main characters to survive). It was the combination of Jack's struggling to save Boone paralleled by the birth of Aaron that made it such a realistic and emotional scene. And again, Boone's death was so pointless, as he stayed too long in the Beechcraft trying to contact, what turned out to be Ana Lucia's group. <br /><br />Don't forget when John comes back and discovers that Helen had died. The sadness associated with the scene was made more so by Abaddon's remark that "she's in the place she is supposed to be," as though Fate doesn't give a crap about humanity, Fate just wants things to work out. <br /><br />Charlotte's death is also one more of these. Her regression back to childhood, to the moment she first met Faraday would have triggered Daniel's own realization of when he finally does meet her. Charlotte's death is not just one moment/scene, but the later scene as well, when Danile is looking at the young girl before him knowing what will be her fate. <br /><br />So my answer to Teebore is that these deaths are often accompanied by the harsh truths of the island, that they are not culiminations of successful actions nor that their sacrifices result in positibve outcomes. Fate always intrudes on these deaths, and I keep hearing Abaddon's words for each of them. It makes them even more poignant, as they are foreordained.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474623954925835867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-12448876708821712842010-10-07T14:31:52.486-04:002010-10-07T14:31:52.486-04:00I'm rewatching season 3 now so the moments tha...I'm rewatching season 3 now so the moments that are fresh in my mind are:<br /><br />Kate seeing her mom and her mom telling her not to contact her again.<br /><br />A young Ben seeing his mom on the other side of the fence and him yelling after her as she disappeared into the woods.<br /><br />Charlie discovering his brother has sold his beloved piano.<br /><br />Sun meeting Jin's father and him asking her not to shame Jin by telling him they had met.<br /><br />Juliet's sister telling her she is pregnant. <br /><br />Anthony Cooper laughing and ripping up Sawyer's note to Mr. Sawyer.<br /><br />OK -- now on to reading all your thoughts!Kikinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-26842371254686065712010-10-07T13:49:07.702-04:002010-10-07T13:49:07.702-04:00Nikki - I know we keep dipping into the finale in ...Nikki - I know we keep dipping into the finale in these discussions (and I am one of the worst for doing it) but for me it goes like this. <br /><br />The finale was such a deep and meaningful thing that created very strong emotions in me at the time and then afterwards, along with the withdrawal symptons. And most of those emotions were not good or happy. <br />At the moment I have a feeling of - "Yippe we can discover lost again" because you have opened up this group and we are all enjoying being back and chatting. And I am doing the rewatch along with those other two guys. <br />So I was really looking forward to going through some of the characters next. <br /><br />So now if we discussed the finale fully I would relive all those sad and puzzling feelings when I am just feeling happy about our discussing it all again. <br />I know we would carry on discussing other things after that but might we postpone the finale for a few weeks at least. <br /><br />Just my personal views and request (of course)LittleMonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-65468939325976636242010-10-07T13:40:47.388-04:002010-10-07T13:40:47.388-04:00Wow, I'm getting weepy just reading everyone&#...Wow, I'm getting weepy just reading everyone's comments. I agree with all of Nikki's choices (and those clips) and pretty much everyone else's. I'm with Gillian and others who said they cried through the entire last half hour of "The End." And when we see Jack with his father in the church sanctuary, just when I think I can't possibly get more emotional, the tears multiply again when Jack realizes he's dead. It's totally Matthew Fox's acting in that moment, because for an instant, he seems almost like a little boy discovering something sad and scary, yet inevitable, that all of us must someday face. The look of surprised understanding, followed by tears, mourning his own life for a moment, before being so warmly comforted and embraced by the father he could never make this connection with in life... it just slays me.<br /><br />It's very interesting to see how many people still consider Charlie's death the series' most cry-inducing moment. I can't say I disagree. I think one reason it works so well is that they really laid the groundwork for us with the character, so we as viewers truly felt we were losing a friend. It helped that they spent some time in the second half of season 3 redeeming Charlie after some of his disturbing behavior earlier (violently kidnapping Sun, taking baby Aaron, etc.). We got to briefly know and love "our" Charlie again. And then with "Greatest Hits," we got the rare treat of seeing a character who knows his end is near, taking stock of his all-too-short life. I especially like the flashbacks to little moments, like his father teaching him to swim, which is a memory almost any of us can probably recall. It humanizes the character, and fleshes him out even more, just in time for us to lose him. The impact of his death is so much greater with all of those extra character layers.<br /><br />But then once again, it's the acting that really seals the deal. Oy, both Dominic Monaghan and Henry Ian Cusick are so incredible, wordlessly expressing so much through that porthole. Someone else mentioned this already, but the moment I really lose it is when Desmond looks at Charlie so desparingly and apologetically, and Charlie smiles back at him, so sweetly, reassuringly, looking momentarily fearless. Then pushes himself away, to die with private dignity. Amazing, amazing scene.shobizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01471300080193371502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-8421829218307469742010-10-07T12:34:37.838-04:002010-10-07T12:34:37.838-04:00@Nikki: The visions that Desmond got were never cl...@Nikki: <i>The visions that Desmond got were never clear-cut. He's not a biblical prophet who has a bush talking to him - he's seeing a garbled vision and then interpreting it to Charlie</i><br /><br />Yeah, I get that, and that's the explanation I use to assuage myself (but it still detracts from the scene that I have to assuage myself at all...) but I guess I would have preferred, if Desmond's visions were supposed to be unclear and open to interpretation, that this vision was related to Charlie in a more vague manner. <br /><br />Like, "I see Claire and Aaron getting off the island, but in order for that to happen, you have to push this button and then you'll drown" instead of giving specific details (leaving via helicopter) and implying Aaron and Claire leave together. It was just so specific that it stood out, and in fiction, standing out=significant. <br /><br />The way its written, the specificity of the imagery (via helicopter) suggests we can expect to see such a scene at some point after Charlie drowns. Darlton even said, at the 2008 ComicCon, that they "had a plan" to deal with the apparent contradiction, but then, like lots of stuff they said at various ComicCons, failed to do anything about it.<br /><br />I know, I know. It's my hangup. This kind of stuff really gets to me, which then takes away from my appreciation of Lost, and I hate not fully loving Lost, so then I get even madder at this kind of stuff. <br /><br />It's a vicious cycle, and I am doing my best not to be a Negative Lostie, though. ;) <br /><br />As for future discussions, I liked your idea about looking at the characters, for what it's worth.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-79559902085496623022010-10-07T11:55:25.543-04:002010-10-07T11:55:25.543-04:00Interesting point, Teebore! The way I see it is th...Interesting point, Teebore! The way I see it is they DID fulfill his prophecy, but he misread it slightly. Aaron absolutely got onto a helicopter and got away from the island, and three years later Claire got onto a plane and left, too. The visions that Desmond got were never clear-cut. He's not a biblical prophet who has a bush talking to him - he's seeing a garbled vision and then interpreting it to Charlie, who is religious and comes to believe that he would have to do X for Y to happen. For me, that's not a dropped plot point, but it simply shows that he was able to sacrifice himself for his love of Claire and Aaron, even if the vision wasn't completely correct. But both Claire and Aaron did get onto flying devices and leave the island -- considering only 8 people left on the initial helicopter, and 6 on the second flight (a total of only 12 people, since both Kate and Frank were on both flights), the vision wasn't far off. It was Desmond's *interpretation* of the vision that led Charlie to the act, not the vision itself. <br /><br />Interestingly, I considered launching right into the finale discussion next week, assuming it will go on for a few weeks... but wondered if it might be too soon to start there. But maybe I'll switch gears and do that instead. Still deciding...Nikki Staffordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04463618183850438914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-91691788737700507192010-10-07T11:36:55.722-04:002010-10-07T11:36:55.722-04:00Two moments that always get me: Juliet's fall ...Two moments that always get me: Juliet's fall down the Incident hole, and Hurley learning about Libby's death, and realizing she'd still be alive if he hadn't forgotten the blankets. <br /><br />Sniff. <br /><br />Charlie's death beats Jin and Sun's for me, since I can't get past the albatross-around-the -writers' necks that was Ji Yeon and want to scream at my TV "what about your daughter!" while they're dying. <br /><br />Even Charlie's death is, now that the series is over, undercut for me by the fact that he died to fulfill a vision that never occurred, and we never learned why Desmond saw something that never happened when all of his other visions, in one way or another, came true or were intentionally averted. <br /><br />Charlie died specifically to bring about a vision of Desmond's, and that vision never came true...for some reason. At the time, I didn't know Desmond's vision would go unfulfilled, so Charlie's death was beautifully tragic, but now I just find myself thinking "wait...Charlie is dying thinking Claire and Aaron will get on a helicopter together and leave the island, but that won't happen and we'll never know why Desmond said it would." <br /><br />For me, that dangling narrative thread robs the scene of some of its poignancy, and that's one of the reasons all the assorted dangling plot threads bother me: they distract me from the otherwise strong character work.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-37177721359290230862010-10-07T11:22:12.382-04:002010-10-07T11:22:12.382-04:00I have to agree that Charlie's death is probab...I have to agree that Charlie's death is probably the saddest moment in the whole of Lost. he was one of my favourite characters in lost and his death was incredibly sad, but watching through it again I think I found essentially all the Charlie moments in "Greatest Hits" almost as sad as his actual death. Watching him say good bye to Claire and Hurley knowing that he is going to die is just heartbreaking, especially seeing Charlie write his happiest moments (#1 - The night I met you) and knowing that Claire is never going to receive me. I still don't think I've fully recovered, although I am pleased that he died heroically, and as the Charlie we all know and love.<br />Sun and Jin's death also has to be up there in the saddest moments throughout the entire show. Jin sacrificing his life to remain with Sun is so sweet and so incredibly sad. I should probably add here that Michael Giacchino's score is so amazing that it probably doubles the emotion in every scene.<br />Other scenes which I found extremely sad are Hurley's talks to Libby at her grave, and his wish that she would come and visit him. Hurley is one of those characters that is usually there largely for comic relief, but his scenes at Libby's grave are so moving that they are definitely up there with the saddest moments.<br />There are various other deaths which made me cry, either at the time they occurred or later on, when we witnessed the effects of them. These include Alex, Charlotte (if only for the effect on Daniel), Locke, Juliet, and many others.<br />Several moments which made me cry although they weren't necessarily sad were in the finale where the characters remembered their past lives and then came together to move on. These were probably my favourite points in the entire series, as we got to see most of the best characters return, relive their best moments, see them reunited with their soulmates and then move on to be happy forever. Tears were steaming down my face as I watched these moments, especially when some if the couples remembered each other (particularly Charlie and Claire, Sun and Jin, Desmond and Penny(sort of), and Sawyer and Juliet). The score to these moments was incredible, and I have to say that I think it was the perfect ending to an incredible series.<br />There are many other sad moments which I shall never forget, from Desmond and Penny's phone call, to Juliet seeing her nephew on the screen, to Hurley telling the truth to his mother (although this was also quite funny), to Hurley and Sun visiting Jin's grave, and many, many more.<br />I doubt there will ever be another show which can create such strong emotions as Lost, and I miss it immensely.Quarksnoreply@blogger.com