tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post911444596950253786..comments2024-02-04T05:13:04.501-05:00Comments on Nik at Nite: What Makes a Good Pilot?Nikki Staffordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04463618183850438914noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-1640671339651882012009-11-12T07:09:30.771-05:002009-11-12T07:09:30.771-05:00Some of my favorite pilots were Early Edition (but...Some of my favorite pilots were Early Edition (but the 2nd ep cruxed it for me), Dark Angel, Defying Gravity is all I can think of right now. Some pilots I hated were STTNG (but watched it after I was well into the series and liked it), SG1, (same as STTNG), and Sanctuary. I gave this one a full season before I said, "Nah". <br /><br />I've never seen Firefly, but the way Matthew described the 2 pilots reminds me alot of STTOS and how the first pilot didnt sell, even though it was very thought provoking, and the network went with the second shoot-em-up version.<br /><br />I agree with Batcabbage in that all the shows I seem to like get cancelled early on. I was sad to see Defying Gravity go so quickly in the States, but hey, Nik, are they still showing it in Canada?<br /><br />As for V, I saw the 2nd ep, and now I'm just confused. Too much going on. I'll give it one, maybe 2 more try's.crazyinlosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13244716189842389576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-89893113890638471092009-11-12T06:43:40.433-05:002009-11-12T06:43:40.433-05:00Some of my favorite pilots were Early Edition (but...Some of my favorite pilots were Early Edition (but the 2nd ep cruxed it for me), Dark Angel, Defying Gravity is all I can think of right now. Some pilots I hated were STTNG (but watched it after I was well into the series and liked it), SG1, (same as STTNG), and Sanctuary. I gave this one a full season before I said, "Nah". <br /><br />I've never seen Firefly, but the way Matthew described the 2 pilots reminds me alot of STTOS and how the first pilot didnt sell, even though it was very thought provoking, and the network went with the second shoot-em-up version.<br /><br />I agree with Batcabbage in that all the shows I seem to like get cancelled early on. I was sad to see Defying Gravity go so quickly in the States, but hey, Nik, are they still showing it in Canada?<br /><br />As for V, I saw the 2nd ep, and now I'm just confused. Too much going on. I'll give it one, maybe 2 more try's.crazyinlosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13244716189842389576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-60134246107114948432009-11-08T01:21:42.521-05:002009-11-08T01:21:42.521-05:00A lot CAN be said by a pilot, but not always. As e...A lot CAN be said by a pilot, but not always. As endearing as season 1 of Buffy is now and as much as it hooked me when I was 16, it does fall short of what the series became.<br />And, as you said, the first season of Heroes was stellar. I'm still tuning in every week, but very aware it's not a great show and not what it started as. I'm connected to the characters though, so I can't let go.<br />The pilot to Firefly was awesome, and we all know the world would be different if the actual pilot had been shown first!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-23689975620149682002009-11-06T20:25:04.523-05:002009-11-06T20:25:04.523-05:00You mention some of my favourite shows in the post...You mention some of my favourite shows in the post, Nik (I'm watching the Wire right now, and I'm completely and utterly blown away by it. It's compulsive). But for me, the one pilot in recent(ish) years that had me hooked from the get-go was Carnivale. Compelling characters, great setting, Michael J Anderson - all fantastic. It was the first show in a while that made me think 'What the hell is this all about? I must know! I must watch!' That hasn't happened to me for a while. But by the same token, they cancelled it when it was nowhere near finished (I have hated HBO because of this and the Deadwood cancellation for a while now). Cancellation is one reason why I don't go for that many new shows. I get quite angry when characters I have invested time in don't get a chance to complete their stories because of 'budgetary constraints', especially now when the DVD market is making bucketloads of money for the networks. I don't usually come across shows that pull me in from the start like Carnivale did. Damn, I miss that show.Batcabbagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609077644806458692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-77086898170744129232009-11-06T15:33:36.426-05:002009-11-06T15:33:36.426-05:00But seriously, folks... I'm behind on FlashFor...But seriously, folks... I'm behind on <i>FlashForward</i>, <i>Dollhouse</i>, and <i>Modern Family</i>, not to mention the rewatch; I haven't seen the <i>V</i> pilot yet; I'm dealing with Blogger problems again; and to top it all off, I may have a flu of either the mundanely seasonal or porcine variety. So while I think I've seen most of the pilots addressed in this thread, this comment is just about all I can muster right now. Darn you, Nikki, and your legion of followers for being so prolific and thought-provoking! I hope to join you again soon. 8^)Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-38338850896231622382009-11-06T15:25:08.015-05:002009-11-06T15:25:08.015-05:00Nikki: What makes a good pilot?
Hmm...
(1) Stays c...<i><b>Nikki:</b> What makes a good pilot?</i><br />Hmm...<br />(1) Stays calm in any situation. (2) Can land plane in large body of water near metropolitan area after collision with errant geese. (3) Doesn't overshoot destination airport because websurfing turned up something kewl.<br />Whoops! I should've read the post first. Sorry...Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-68768600787323759212009-11-06T12:16:38.440-05:002009-11-06T12:16:38.440-05:00I should note television advertising for shows is ...I should note television advertising for shows is country specific. I especially loved the Sky 4 promos for the pilot for LOST--oh why didn't we have that here. Looking at some of the other ones from various countries were so cool. Has anyone seen different/national promos for Flashforward, V, or any of the other news pilots for this season?Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474623954925835867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-40697998337440756722009-11-06T11:26:59.451-05:002009-11-06T11:26:59.451-05:00I have to admit I didn't warm to the pilot of ...I have to admit I didn't warm to the pilot of Fringe. Perhaps, it was due to the expectation this was going to be X-Files redux. But given the chance after a few episodes, I got into the show, and I just love it. I think when fans love a show it's due to the chemistry between characters, elements of humour, insight, and that haunting sense of something in the background (Fringe plays these especially well). But could it have done all these things in the pilot? Nope! All those things take time, and viewers have to warm to the characters as the writers develop them in different situations. <br /><br />On the other hand, good pilot, good show concept, great acting etc. still doesn't make for TV survival. Pushing Daisies was a favorite of ours, and when we heard it was getting cancelled there was a few choice words about television audiences--I mean who loves Reality shows over Pushing Daisies (probably a lot given ratings), or some of the other mediocre stuff that stays endlessly on the air, reincarnated from show to show. I guess we are not that niche market of viewers. For instance, don't have the time of day for Grey's Anatomy, and Desperate Housewives got stale for my wife, while never watched more than a few minutes of Vampire Diaries, 90210, and so many others. There is a limited time for watching television and choices have to be made. If that means not watching something that might be great, then that's what summer and DVDs are for.<br /><br />Coming from Canada, I find it frustrating seeing some favorite shows disappear because they can't find a foothold in the U.S.. Personally, I wish there was a new model where American television could survive outside the U.S.. Maybe Pushing Daisies may not have been that popular in the U.S., but could it have survived outside U.S. borders on foreign airwaves. We've seen this work with Baywatch. Now that we're in a global market, why not allow American-made shows survival outside American audience's purview? I wonder how that would change generating pilots? Would pilots then be variable from country to country--imagine marketing to China, and putting references in for Chinese audiences. American viewers would never see these references (which would be edited in/out), but Chinese audiences would. Afterall, cars and other consumer goods are built for various market niches, and even now websites are gaining international script for URLs. Why not television shows? Any ideas, or is this done already?Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474623954925835867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-49469196877430834542009-11-06T10:03:01.057-05:002009-11-06T10:03:01.057-05:00Firefly had a great pilot - too bad they didn'...Firefly had a great pilot - too bad they didn't air it until the end, when they'd already cancelled the show.<br /><br />Pushing Daisies and Wonderfalls had pilots that sucked me in - but not what the general population wanted I guess. Same with Chuck.<br /><br />As for Flashforward - I decided to stick with it and watch last night - really good episode. I have hopes they're getting back on track.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-16941095743017502622009-11-06T07:53:21.594-05:002009-11-06T07:53:21.594-05:00What about Fringe? I'm interested to find out ...What about Fringe? I'm interested to find out how much you thought of that considering you're a fan of Lost and Alias.<br />But to be honest it's not just pilots we can't rely on, its the first seasons of shows entirely. Some shows continously get better than you thought they ever could (Pushing Daisies I particulary loved in its second season) and some fell flat after a complete season of brilliance (Heroes obviously).<br />I think if you really care about getting into a show then you should at least give it a season and if it still isnt good by next season then as a viewer you have every right to say, you had your chance and you've failed again.<br />For me I didn't like Dollhouse in its first season until about the last few episodes and I'm still not grabbed by this season but I'm still giving it a chance.<br />And then there's shows like Lost, The Wire and True Blood which are just awesome and anyone who doesn't watch them by now must be a little strange.A.G.Woodinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08069481435844624860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-43371430186282175762009-11-05T21:15:36.341-05:002009-11-05T21:15:36.341-05:00I agree with you completely about "Buffy"...I agree with you completely about "Buffy" and "Angel" and even your timeline. By the middle of the second season of each, I was deeply in love. :) I miss both shows so much.Karen W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02893272596408207973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-43423376781735044332009-11-05T18:27:01.637-05:002009-11-05T18:27:01.637-05:00It was Buffy's season finale that showed me &q...It was Buffy's season finale that showed me "this will work if they give it a chance." It packed humor, action, drama so nicely into one hour that I loved it.<br /><br />In V's case, I think it really should have had a two hour pilot, like Lost had. I do not mean the first two episodes. I mean, take episode one and expand it. Let it breathe. Let it give us more time with the characters. Make the sequence where we discover Wash ain't so nice extra shocking because we had time to really engage the characters. The biggest flaw of the pilot for V was that I felt like it skipped beats.<br /><br />The first season of Friend approaches near unwatchable levels. The only thing that was working at all were the later episodes detailing Ross trying to win Rachel and the Joey Chandler relationship. That friendship had a solid chemistry almost from episode one. <br /><br />But yes, pilots are hit or miss. The Office I knew I had to wait for the second episode. It was paint by numbers and they needed a new beginning all their own. I recall Gervais saying he thought they should not use the British pilot, but the other producers thought "it worked the first time!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-26793153353018984602009-11-05T16:03:29.282-05:002009-11-05T16:03:29.282-05:00Matthew: You raise some excellent points, and mayb...Matthew: You raise some excellent points, and maybe I wasn't completely fair with Buffy. When I watched it, I watched the first three episodes together (I sadly can't boast that I saw it live the night it first aired on the WB). So unlike Angel, where I did watch it live, I don't have a very clear memory of exactly what the experience was like. I loved the banter, I thought the dialogue was great, and I looked forward to the second. But, for me, it certainly didn't project the depth of the show that would be evident only a couple of episodes later. <br /><br />And with Angel, where I did watch it live, it was missing that teenage snarkiness. In retrospect, however, I look back at Buffy's pilot and I adore it. I'm laughing at things I didn't laugh at the first time through (because knowing the characters the way we do now changes what they are for me) and Angel seems fresher and funnier than I remember it being on the first go-round. When Angel jumps in the wrong black car, I laughed out loud the first time I saw it, but it was a moment that really stood out in an otherwise slightly pedestrian plot for me.Nikki Staffordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04463618183850438914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-4080073591265017112009-11-05T15:59:09.882-05:002009-11-05T15:59:09.882-05:00dmc: LOL! Yes, as in "Seinfeld's series f...dmc: LOL! Yes, as in "Seinfeld's series finale was BAD." ;) I remember watching the pilot and liking it, but now, of course, I can't remember which episode that was, so maybe it didn't stick with me the way I thought it did. <br /><br />Robert: Fringe is a good one. I forgot about that, but yes, that was an excellent pilot. Arrested Development is another one where the pilot was good, but not great. It gave me enough to keep me coming back, though, and I'm SO glad I did. <br /><br />Fred: You bring up an excellent point: how do they present pilots to the networks? Perhaps that's why pilots are the way they are these days: in the case of Buffy, Whedon had to present a 30-minute pilot to the network and they bought it on that. HBO shows are bought as an entire season, which is why they don't have to blow everything in the first episode. <br /><br />A lot definitely has to do with what network it's on. In the case of ABC, a bad pilot could drive people away instantly, and the show is looking at cancellation two episodes later. Whereas on a cable network, they've already committed to the season and it's pretty much in the can before it begins airing. So that's definitely something to think about. I wish I knew more about the actual industry side of all of this.Nikki Staffordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04463618183850438914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-21453117785623423592009-11-05T15:52:06.799-05:002009-11-05T15:52:06.799-05:00Did someone just write 'Seinfeld' and '...Did someone just write 'Seinfeld' and 'bad' in the same sentence?dmcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-75851383984457204092009-11-05T13:10:56.050-05:002009-11-05T13:10:56.050-05:00I completely agree with your assessments Nikki, pa...I completely agree with your assessments Nikki, particularly with Lost, Flashforward, Glee and Heroes.<br /><br />I hope you totally get into Modern Family more I would be very interested in seeing what you think about the show. I think it is the best new show on TV right now (at least comedy wise). Hopefully you do love it and blog about it! So many zingers every week!asiancolossushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09531748076973604929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-13928756212937819532009-11-05T12:09:24.192-05:002009-11-05T12:09:24.192-05:00Hi, Matthew here..
Hmmm... I have not seen all th...Hi, Matthew here..<br /><br />Hmmm... I have not seen all the pilots you mention, but I diasgree about how succesful Buffy and Angel were. I caught Buffy by accident. Back in the late 90s BBC2 had a slot at 6.25 that was essentially nerd TV (Star Trek and the like) which I loved. One day it was Buffy instead. I had no idea. But after the intitial triple bluff - not only is the blonde girl not the victim or Buffy but she IS the vampire - I was hoooked, and the theme song and innumerable other parts just resonated and hit me. My response was 'I will watch this again; I cannot wait to watch this again'. That had only ever happened to me once before, and that was with Twin Peaks.<br /><br />Angel, I also thought, was staggering - funny, scary, intriguing... and the decision to kill thhe victim off and not have Angel save her, as well as having Angel jump in the wrong car again made me think: I have to wattch this.<br /><br />BUT, these are just personal reflections that tell you nothing about whether a Pilot is or is not succesful, and certainly does address the question of whether or not a pilot can act as an accurate predictor of the series' overall quality.<br /><br />I think they are much more important simply in creating the 'format' - what is the show's general tenor; what is its palette; what kind of music will be used; how is it lit... as well as more obvius questions concerning how the show's use of genre will contrubute to its format. Buffy and Angel did this reallly well - hybrid genres, directional lighting, live contemporary music; warm golds / cold blues for Buffy: and generic hybridity, noir effect lights; high super hero angles; low detective angles; dark (obviously, perhaps!)... within that format characters will develop and grow, but if the format doesn't work then you'r sunk.<br /><br />Here's where all the Firefly fans go mental... FOX was right about the first pilot - at least in one regard: it did not establish the format quickly and neatly enough: The 'second' pilot opens in a fashion that is brilliant in its economy and clarity - bar room (western), clealry non-western music and costume (in part); space ship (sci fi) BUT also... the browns and ochres and rusts and reds, the knee-high camera tracking (child-like excitement resolving to knowledge as it rests on our teamm...). This pilot drew the TV public in.. to an extenet. The jokes and characters of the original pilot are more interesting, but the format is nowhere nearly as well set up.<br /><br />So, that's my take - a pilot sets up the format (well or badlly) and the rest - story, theme, character starts here but we can only assess their quality later; and we will only do that if we enjoy the format enough.<br /><br />Right, off to bonfire night!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-49540428242156406192009-11-05T11:24:57.563-05:002009-11-05T11:24:57.563-05:00True Blood - great pilot
Seinfeld - bad pilot (no...True Blood - great pilot<br /><br />Seinfeld - bad pilot (no Elaine?) - actually the whole first season was pretty bad<br /><br /> -TimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-63028307572592511492009-11-05T11:23:15.152-05:002009-11-05T11:23:15.152-05:00@Nikki: You are right in assuming that a pilot alo...@Nikki: You are right in assuming that a pilot alone doesn't tell us very much about whether a show will be great, mediocre, or just bad. You have more experience with this than myself (casual viewer), but I wonder about how the executives that decide (thumbs up or down) whether to go ahead with a show is based on the pilot alone? If so, what are the executives looking at, and what is going on in their brains, considering how many flops there are?<br /><br />I think one thing about a good pilot is viewer identification with a character. If you can get that alomst instant identification (be it, 'I know someone like that,' to 'gee that's an interesting character I'd waste 60 minutes with') then even a mediocre pilot can still grab. It's just like at the movies, where fans play the "what-if" game: what if it really was Ronald Reagan and not Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca? What if Jack had been killed off in the pilot, would we still be watching? Identification with main characters is important to making a successful pilot.<br /><br />The other thing about a good pilot is that it has to have enough elements to develop--video games are like that. Start at a low level, get a few weapons, magic swords, whatever, and then move out into the game landscape. LOST was brilliant at this: monster, check; potential terrorist, check; love interest, check; and so on. In the movies, Jurrasic Park (first one) was so much like a video game: strand a group of scientists and children in the middle of the park; have them move through a landscape with potential threats to get to a goal and safety. Brilliant.<br /><br />The other thing about pilots now-a-days is we don't need to see them. I missed the pilot to Glee (just watched it in repeat), but it didn't detract me from watching every week after it. As well, we can now watch whole series in a go on DVD or on-line (I did this with Heroes, and it was so much better than weekly appointment TV). So in that sense, even if the pilot is bleh, it doesn't matter, because you're trading continuity for weekly thrills. <br /><br />A problem with pilots is when the show is tweaked to try to increase audience interest. The premise of the pilot drops out and we are really watching a new show. I wonder if that is what is going to happen to V? I don't know what the viewing audience numbers were, but if they were low, would that lend itself to changing the show after the hiatus? I guess we are going to see that with Flashforward.<br /><br />As I said on the V pilot blog, TV is a domestic medium. To craft a pilot for a small screen (though they are getting bigger, which makes it possible for more movie- like qualities), it's hard to get the wow factor in CGI, and other things. TV has to rely on character, and if that doesn't come through, then I think it fails. I tend to think of movies like pilots, or at least the first 15 minutes. Movies only get one chance to grab you. Unlike TV, where we allow second and even third chances. I wonder how much cross-over of movie styles we'll see as TV moves to LED and increases in screen size lend themselves to comparisons with the big screen?Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474623954925835867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30892649.post-9824895862112460192009-11-05T10:54:04.994-05:002009-11-05T10:54:04.994-05:00Glee, Modern Family and Fringe have all been recen...Glee, Modern Family and Fringe have all been recent pilots that I remember as amazing.<br /><br />Since I didn't watch the UK version of The Office, I don't have the same feelings towards it. I was hooked from the very beginning and it just keeps getting better and better. <br /><br />The shows that have had good pilots but disappointing yields later are Heroes and Flash Forward.<br /><br />A show that I didn't love immediately but grew on me is Arrested Development, which ABSOLUTELY works ONLY if you stay with it. <br /><br />To be honest, I'm also on the side that pilots have little to say about a series, but it's the consistency that really counts in the end (if networks don't get in the way, of course).Roberthttp://www.chroniclesofawriter.comnoreply@blogger.com