WOW. I... wow. Well, just when you thought a finale wouldn’t polarize audiences more than The Sopranos did, along comes Lost!! For the record, I LOVED it. I loved it because I didn’t want everything answered, and not only did they not answer everything, they even left some REALLY big things unanswered. Upsetting? Now that I’ve thought about it, no. I talked earlier today about how the great thing about the fandom of Lost was that it attracted demographics from so many diverse communities. But as a result, when you’re looking to create Big Answers in your themes, you have to leave things open to interpretation, so that someone with a Christian background might interpret a faith-based show one way, while a Muslim would look at it a different way, and an atheist an even different way. And with faith being such a huge component of the show and that finale, they left it open for interpretation for all of us.
So... what exactly happened in the final 15 minutes, you might be asking? Well, I had the unenviable position of having to jump directly into a live chat when I was still reeling from it (quite literally... at 11:30 I was sitting on the couch with paper and pen both having dropped to the floor, my face in my hands and sobbing... sobbing and sobbing, shoulders shaking and possibly even screaming at times). I was shattered (in a good way) by that finale, it was so beautiful, so moving, so uplifting. And then I had to stand up, wipe my tears, and move over to my computer to start talking to people in a live chat, where, rather than the questions I was used to in the Globe chat, I face a bunch of “WTF WAS THAT???” questions being thrown so fast and furious they were just scrolling up the screen faster than you could read it (the hosts were actually commenting at one point that the chat was becoming useless because we couldn’t actually read any questions). I hope I was able to answer some of the stuff you guys asked if you were there.
But anyway, here is what I think happened in the end: It all hinges on that scene with Jack and his father. So first, let’s look at what they say to each other:
Christian: Hello Jack.
Jack: I don’t understand. You died.
C: Yeah. Yes I did.
J: Then how are you here right now?
C: How are YOU here?
J: [realization hits] I died, too.
C: That’s OK. It’s OK, son [hugs]. I love you son
J: I love you, too, Dad. Are you real?
C: I sure hope so. Yeah, I’m real. You’re real, everything that’s ever happened to you is real. All those people in the church. They’re all real, too.
J: They’re all dead?
C: Everyone dies some time, kiddo. Some have been before you, some long after you.
J: Why are they all here now?
C: There is no now, here.
J: Where are we, Dad?
C: This is a place that you’ve all made together so that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time that you spent with these people. That’s why all of you are here. Nobody dies alone, Jack. You needed all of them, and they needed you.
J: For what?
C: To remember, and to... let go.
J: Kate... she said we were leaving.
C: Not leaving, no. Moving on.
J: Where are we going?
C: Let’s go find out.
I believe that the sideways world was purgatory, seen through Jack's lens, and that all of those people needed to come together in some way in that world for Jack to “move on.” I think that the key line that Christian says is “There is no now, here.” There is no time in the sideways world. The island was very much in time, even when it was jumping it was jumping through real time, but that was simply shown to us in the past seasons to prepare us for this place, this purgatory-type sideways world, that was not located in time. Ben and Hurley refer to each other as Number 1 and Number 2, positions they may have held for centuries, for all we know, but here they are in this moment of death, all coming together. This world, this place they’re stopping over in before moving on, this is a place that exists outside of time, and that’s why some of those people will die long after Jack does, and some, as we know, die before that. They’re all here now to move over.
So while that ending was shown through Jack’s lens, it was still a collective experience. Each one of them had to come to a realization. Each one of those people was remembering his own existence and that was the only way he or she could break on through to the other side, so to speak. Locke had to remember his own death, and so did Charlie, Jin, Sun, and Juliet. They had to find the people they belonged to. They had to be with them once again (that’s why, as you’ll see below, my ONLY major regret was that Sayid ended up with Shannon... he was Nadia’s soulmate, and, well... ugh, but anyway). Christian says to Jack that these people existed in the most important period of his life. The things that happened on the island, that was all real. The sideways world was the purgatory that Jack had to go through, and he is the last one to finally SEE.
So why were certain people missing? Eko wasn’t in the church, or Ana Lucia. Ben didn’t go in, Michael wasn’t there. No Richard Alpert. Perhaps the suggestion is that the people in the church are all going to Heaven, and those who aren’t there are doomed to go to Hell. Richard isn’t going to get the absolution he so badly wanted. Ben knows that he doesn’t belong with that group for all the things he’s done. Interesting that Sayid does get to go, though.
(UPDATE: I wrote these comments very early in the morning after having the finale still fresh like a gaping wound in my heart, and I've changed my mind on this last part. I'll be putting up a new post on it soon...)
And the big unanswered question: What was the island? By not answering this one, they leave it up to us to determine. I think that was a pretty big thing to leave out, but then again, they’ve given us the tools to work with all season – the mythology, key components of it, the light/dark metaphors, the wars breaking out all over it. The island was the place of redemption, the chessboard where the characters had to become self-conscious chess pieces, moving themselves around the board (and in many cases along the way in the game, being moved by larger forces playing the game). This was the place where they came to be redeemed or to be damned for eternity. The light in the cave represented both the capacity for good AND evil within each one of us. When the people approached the light with greed, it did harm. When they approached it with goodness, it did good. This is still the major thing up in the air for me, the thing that I think will require the most discussion among all of you and me to help me through this one. So I think I’ll leave it to further discussion below in the comments and in my further posts tomorrow. (Which, looking at the time, is today.)
I have a lot more to say, but it’s 1:30 and I have to start doing interviews at 9 tomorrow morning. And I doubt I’ll sleep much tonight after that. I’ll be online posting all day tomorrow. (I apologize that I didn’t do a video podcast after all. I didn’t have any time between the finale and the live chat, and honestly, I was sobbing through the first 5 minutes of the chat while I was typing, and there’s no way I could have been able to speak at all in a video podcast. You would have just seen me breaking down like Hurley on the beach after Jin and Sun died.) I really can’t wait to see what you guys have to say about it. So... here we go:
Most important quotations:
Usually I list in bold at the top of every ep guide the most thematically relevant quotes, but I figured there’d be so many for this one you’d never make it to this part, so I’ll list them here:
• “No one can tell you why you’re here, Kate.”
• “Nothing is irreversible.”
• “We’re all going to the same place... then it ends.”
• “If I can fix you, Mr. Locke, that’s all the peace I’ll need.”
• “You’re not John Locke. You disrespect his memory by wearing his face but you’re nothing like him. Turns out he was right about most everything. I just wish I could have told him that while he was alive.” GO JACK!!!!
• “I want you to know, Jack... you died for nothing.”
• “Did you see that?”
• “I hope that somebody does for you what you just did for me.”
• “It needs to be you, Hugo.”
Highlights:
• Sawyer referring to Jack becoming Jacob as his “inauguration.” Ha!
• “He’s worse than Yoda.” “I’ve got a bad feeling about this.” TWO Star Wars references in the opening!!
• Sawyer calling Desmond The Magic Leprechaun!!! BEST NICKNAME EVER. (Especially because he’s Scottish, not Irish!)
• Hurley staring at Charlie at the motel and just grinning.
• VINCENT!!! ROSE!!! GRIZZLY BERNARD!!!
• Richard Alpert!! I believed! I believed! I KNEW he wasn’t dead! :)
• JULIET!!!!!!! (I originally jotted down, “So I guess this means she isn’t Jack’s wife!”)
• “For the record, you two speak English just fine.” Ha!
• Lapidus!! Now HE was one I was wrong about (I was convinced he was dead despite everyone saying we didn’t SEE him die). But a giant iron door flying with all the force of the ocean at his head and not killing him? O...kay.
• “That’s a hell of a long con, Doc.” Ha!
• Loved Hurley saying, “I believe in you, dude,” and you could hear Jorge’s voice catch because it was probably one of the last scenes he filmed with Matthew Fox.
• Jack saying there are no shortcuts, no do-overs, whatever happened, happened, and all of this matters. I loved that line.
• Jack and Locke looking down into the cave of light the same way they looked into the hatch at the end of season 2. What a perfect end to the first hour!!
• “I was shot by a fat man.” HAHA!!!
• Daniel looking at Charlotte. ♥♥♥
• The entire scene of Desmond removing that rock from the light. That was epic.
• Kate shooting Locke!! Holy crap.
• Jack saying, “Just find me some thread and I can count to 5.” HAHA!!
• Frank: “DON’T BOTHER ME!!” Ben: “Sounds like they’re making progress.”
• Miles: “I don’t believe in a lot of things but I do believe in duct tape.” HAHA! He’d get along well with my Grandpa.
• LOVED that Kate didn’t even hesitate and just jumped into the water.
• “Kiss me, James.” “You got it, Blondie.” WAAAAAH....
• “You were right, Jack.” “There’s a first time for everything.”
• Ben and Locke knowing each other at the church (notice Ben isn’t wearing his glasses anymore, and seems to know that wearing his hair up like he does on the island is less dweebie) and Ben apologizing to John.
• Ben to Hurley: “You do what you do best: take care of people.”
• PENNY!!!!
The Tears
• My first tears came when Sun, and then Jin, saw their lives on the island. I was crying because we were seeing a montage of their lives, the first we’d seen since they died... and then cried harder because they actually saw their own deaths. What was THAT like?
• Charlie’s memories of Claire. Oh MAN I was a mess at that point... It made me wonder if he saw his death...
• “Tell me I’m gonna see you again.” WAAAAAAH...
• Juliet and Sawyer... the moment she said, “We could go Dutch” and he said, “I got you” I was shaking with sobs. SHAKING.
• Kate saying to Jack, “I’ve missed you so much.”
• Jack to Desmond: “I’ll see you in another life, brother.” TEARS.
• “Goodbye, Ben.” When Locke said that, I just LOST it... it was like it was finally coming to an end, I knew that’s the last time we’d see Ben and Locke together.
• “I’d be honoured.” “Cool.” SOB. (OK, at this point I think the tears just flowed and there weren’t any real start and stop points anymore).
• The entire last five minutes of everyone hugging in the church. It felt less like the characters and more like peeking in on the wrap party of the cast. I was wracked with sobs.
• Vincent lying down next to Jack. If you were able to hold back the tears for everything else, I'll bet you lost it here. Jack didn't die alone.
Did You Notice?:
• Charlie’s staying at the Flightline Motel. This is the motel where Kate is staying when she dyes her hair and gets the letter from the desk clerk; where Anthony Cooper was staying when Locke went to him and then Helen followed and he tried to propose to her; and where the safehouse was where Sayid and Hurley went.
• Sawyer walks away from Locke and says, “I’ll be seeing ya.” Prisoner reference!!
• Rose and Bernard have rules, too. They DO belong on the island.
• When Locke said calmly, “I’ll make it hurt,” I actually groaned. How horrible. It’s one thing to quickly slit their throats, but to promise pain and torture... och.
• Richard says he needs to finish what he started: Those are the same words Smokey used right after the sub blew up.
• Sawyer refers to Miles as Enos (a Dukes of Hazzard reference) which is what he called him when they were in the DI together in 1977.
• There’s the expedition music! With a cool rumba flair added in.
• Jack tells Locke that he’s very confident that it will be just fine... that’s what he said to Boone, and Sun on the beach earlier this season... and when he dropped the bomb...
• Jack says to Locke, “I’ll see you on the other side” and it’s never had more resonance than right now.
• I LOVED Locke saying to Jack, “You’re sort of the obvious choice.” Fan service!! Hahaha...
• Sawyer passes Juliet getting off the elevator like he doesn’t even know her. Sadness...
• Really. Do they HAVE to keep commenting on what a big storm is coming? Kind of obvious.
• There are the red flowers around the cave!
• Desmond and Hurley are following rules similar to what Jacob has made on the island, needing people to come to their own realizations and not actually directing them.
• I’m sure many of you saw my reaction coming, but I was NOT happy with Sayid’s flash happening through Shannon. Nothing against Shannon, but I thought his love of Nadia was epic, and that Shannon was just something on the island because Nadia wasn’t there, but making it look like Shan was his one true love TOTALLY waters down the thing with Nadia. I really disliked that reveal of the other world. REALLY. I literally sat there wincing on the couch as he and Shannon were kissing. Ew. Boone said, “Should we stop them?” And I was yelling, YES!
• Maybe it’s because I’m reading Paradise Lost right now, but when the light went out and then the red light suddenly swirled up, it was like the fires of hell were coming up out of that pit.
• Despite everything, I really was moved by Eloise not wanting Desmond to take her son from her. It makes me wonder if her move to have him fulfill his destiny in S5 really was the most painful thing she’d ever done.
• The birth scene was almost exactly the same as the one in S1, right down to Charlie getting the blankets. Only thing missing was Jin standing there.
• Jack flying through the air at Locke when they were on the flat elicited my first “HOLY SHIT!!” of the night... oh my GOD it was like Island Mortal Kombat!! I swore the bird that flew over them at that moment said, “FINISH HIM!” in a deep voice.
• So... after what we know to be true about the Man in Black, did anyone else kind of feel bad as his dead body lay on the flats? All he ever wanted was to leave the island and destroy the place that made his life a living hell (literally) and the moment he becomes corporeal again he dies.
• Locke moves the same foot as he did on the island for the first time. Jack throws the sheet back and looks at it with the same shock as he did when he saw Sarah move her foot for the first time.
• The moment Locke and Jack caught a glimpse of the other world, they immediately started bickering. Haha!! Nice touch!
• When Sawyer walks into Jin and Sun’s room, he walks into the room of the two people who he feels responsible for killing.
• Jack didn’t say the incantation when he passed the legacy over to Hugo.
• Jack re-corks the bottle.... and then looks like he’s gonna melt like Vader.
• They played the music from “Exodus” (where the raft left) as the flight goes... beautiful. I kept thinking, “Poor Richard Alpert! He’s never been in an autogyro before!” Heehee...
• Ben is separated from everyone in both worlds.
• I loved the line when Ben said that Jacob ran things so you couldn’t leave... the rules were specific to the person protecting the island, so if Hurley changes them, things change!
• Ben becoming Hurley’s Number 2 and Hurley being Number 1 (Prisoner reference!!) It’s like Ben’s going to be his Richard Alpert.
• The church had several stone angels as they were walking up to it, signifying what was waiting inside.
• All of the flashes that make Jack see the other side are scenes where he was a hero.
Hurley’s Numbers:
SW Miles says Sayid killed 4 people; Desmond’s group is sitting at table 23 at the benefit; on the hatch under the Ajira plane you can see 840; the Apollo bar is selection G23 in the vending machine;
Teeny Questions!
• What was Charlie drinking? Did anyone see the label? It looked Gaelic.
• How exactly did Ben walk away from a freakin’ TREE landing on him? I’m assuming it was mostly braced by the rock? But he was pretty stuck, which means a lot of the tree’s weight had to have been on him...
More:
My season 6 book is now available for preorder!
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1550229516?tag=nikatnite-20&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=1550229516&adid=0TG587A7YYP59KR607DD&
I’m on Facebook! Come join me to commiserate:
http://www.facebook.com/nikkistafford108
I’m also on Twitter. I’m bad at tweeting, though. I twit infrequently. ;)
http://twitter.com/nikki_stafford
Tomorrow listen in to Marshall and Forbes on The Ocean 98.5 in Victoria, BC at 7:10 a.m. local time, 10:10 a.m. EST. Go here and click on the Listen Now button if you’re out of the listening area. http://www.ocean985.com/
And WEDNESDAY at noon I will once again be participating in the Globe and Mail Lost chat from noon to 1pm EST. Go here to ask questions and comment. See you there!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/
And finally, listen to KEX 1190 at 6:20 p.m. PST, 9:20 p.m. EST where I’ll be on the Mark & Dave show (and they’re big Lost fans so it’s always fun). Go here and click the Listen Now button:
http://www.1190kex.com/main.html
Next week:
There... is no next week. :(
I loved it all....thanks for "talking it out" with me!
ReplyDeleteA wonderful recap to finish off a beautiful, perfect ending. I know some people will have a problem with it, but I absolutely am in heaven right now (no pun intended!) What a perfect ending to a perfect series.
ReplyDeleteNext week:
ReplyDeleteThere... is no next week. :(
There may be no Lost, but as long you're not going anywhere, we're not going anywhere... :)
I'll save my opinions for later, when I'm less tired, but first reaction, it was very emotionally satisfying even if the plot of the show wasn't entirely resolved.
I mean, each of those "awakening" moments was just beautiful, and I'm glad the Sideways universe was leading to something that didn't mean the positive aspects of that world had to be abandoned.
I cheered when Richard and Frank was found alive.
I LOVED Jack's lines to FLocke as Desmond was lowered into the light.
Hurley's line last week about not being the new Jacob? Foreshadowing after all. And I love the idea of him and Ben as the new Jacob and Richard.
The scene between Ben and Locke outside the church? Brilliant. Just...brilliant.
And Kate, the wild card, putting an end to Smokey, almost makes up for all the dumb stuff she's done. Almost. ;)
More later...
I think the final shot of the plane debris indicates that these people died in the plane crash. Jack's spirit had been stuck in limbo and needed these people that he used from the plane to reconcile faith and moving on with his scientific doubts.
ReplyDeleteFantastic ending. Really the only way it could end.
It's so late, and I'm still processing, but I HAD to stay up to see your post.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with you on the Sayid/Shannon thing. Sayid's love for Nadia was beautiful, and he was with Shannon for what? A week? I mean, I get the point that their Island time was the most important period of their lives, and Nadia wasn't on the island, but that just really hit me hard.
Kate's "I've missed you so much"--seems to me that she lived a VERY long life post-Island.
And the people missing from the Church don't all make sense. I've been reading forums, and a lot of people say that it was those who were "tied" the closest together who ended up in the Church (of course leaving out those who went to some variant of hell). But that doesn't explain why some version of Walt wasn't there (obviously we don't need Malcolm David Kelley to play him, but it could have been an adult version of him from decades into the future)? Or Lapidus? Or Miles?
And what does it mean to not be "ready yet" like Ana Lucia wasn't? Are we supposed to assume that she will eventually be ready, and therefore "move on" as well? And does that explain why Miles, Lapidus, Eko, etc weren't in the church?
I feel like a lot of my understanding/acceptance of that end scene is going to depend on a break down of exactly who was and who was not in the Church... and unfortunately I don't have DVR, so I'm sure I missed/can't remember all the details of who was and was not there.
Of course, I was totally on the same roller coaster ride of emotions and laughter and tears as everyone else was for the first two hours and twenty minutes... but I'm really conflicted about the ending. :-\ Hope that doesn't make me sound like a Debbie Downer.
And after all that rambling, I really need to head to bed. I'll read everyone else's comments in the morning. :-P
I completely agree with your thoughts Nikki, I have similar interpretations to The End. I'm so happy/sad right now...
ReplyDeleteI cried like a baby too!! Such a perfect Finale!
Thanks, Nik, for sharing the night with us and for having your recap ready so quickly - kudos! I need to sit with my feelings about the finale for a bit and then I'll have more to say.
ReplyDeleteOh, and there's ALWAYS a next week- because there is no NOW here ...
I LOVED 98% of this episode - but the last 10 or whatever minutes threw me - I'm satisfied ON Island, but the sideways world totally and completely confuses me and that's where they honestly have lost me for now. Hopefully some of you will help me come to better terms with it.
ReplyDeleteI got in on a tiny bit of the live chat, which helped me some, but it kept eating my good comments and never posting them, so it got VERY frustrating.
Here are my general thoughts for now...
1. When Kate said Desmond made her put on a dress it reminded me of how Ben made her put on a dress before he served her breakfast.
2. Did you notice that black smoke rolling in front of Jack while they were still sitting by the fire?! It was uber creepy!
3. How freaky was it that Jin and Sun just randomly started remembering and speaking English??
4. RICHARD WASN'T DEAD! NEITHER WAS LAPIDUS (I staunchly stood by my guns that Lapidus was NOT dead, in the face of all naysayers, and boy was I glad I was right! The door only clipped his shoulder! It did!)
5. So is Richard just going to age normally now? Or rapidly? And where is he gonna go OFF the Island? Everyone he ever knew is LONG dead.
6. Thought it was weird that Juliet was actually Jack's ex - not because of the two of them, but because they were so friendly in the hall when he had been so awkward about seeing her like last episode.
7. That Smokey Target ad was Hi-lar-i-ous
8. SHANNON! SO excited to see her and VERY happy about her and Sayid, even if I am in the minority. Totally made me happy. I know a lot of people (Nikki included) see Nadia as his epic soulmate - but to me Nadia was more the unatainable dream that he never thought he'd ever really have - is this why she's married to his brother in the sideways? - I have nothing against Nadia and I loved that they got to be together when he got off the Island, but I've always loved the Sayid/Shannon arc - of course, I'm one of the few people that actually found Shannon interesting rather than annoying, so...
9. Pretty much the only time I cried the whole episode (which TOTALLY shocked me that I wasn't a wreck through the whole thing) was when Kate delivered Aaron - I sobbed like a little behbeh. It was so sweet.
10. How much do I absolutely wish that Charlie had looked down and said, "Hey Turniphead."! That would have TOTALLY made that scene.
11. Was that the volcano? o.0
12. And I about screamed my head off when that tree fell on Ben
I REALLY expected more people to die. Like everybody.
13. What was up with NinJack (tm) on the cliff?
14. Was it really THAT easy to kill MiB? And then just have him there at the bottom of the cliff...
15. Was anyone else confused by why Ben was suddenly magically out from under the tree?
16. When Hurley said, "I believe in you, Dude," I was rather distracted because all I could think was, "everyone clap if you believe in Jack" but, no - that's Peter Pan and fairies :)
17. I don't think I buy the whole Hurley as protector of the Island thing. And Jack didn't mutter any kind of incantation, right? And Hurley doesn't seem to have gained any kind of understanding about anything. So strange - though at least Ben was still there. I was honestly waiting for him to grab the bottle and drink and take on the job since all he's ever wanted his whole life is to take care of and serve the Island. I would have liked that better. Loads better.
18. Then entered the magical church of no time and I just sat in confusion. No tears, I was too bewildered as to what on earth happened.
19. Also, very sad not to have the life and death theme in there at the end - at least if it was I didn't notice it.
All right - I'll be in and out tomorrow (have to work tomorrow afternoon/night :( but I'll be very interested to get all of your theories and ideas and throw out a few more major questions I have.
Sigh. Took a while to get my breath back after that one.
ReplyDeleteThe story, the meaning, and the mechanics will be talked about for decades and there will be no correct answers.
For me, the ending was tremendously satisfying. It was personal. And I hope the ending was personal in an individual way for everyone who watched it.
It was simple and quaint, and was something that should resonate with every human being regardless of race, creed, religion, etc.
I'm sure we've all thought about what it will be like when we die. Jack was greeted by his father, comforted on his passage, and reunited with his friends. The time spent with them is what mattered, and the "meaning" of it all that we've debated and searched so hard for is just that. Just like real life.
We should all be as lucky as Jack.
Namaste.
@Nik - aaah, leave it to you :-)
ReplyDeleteI think you nailed it. My loved one and I were stunned and frankly pissed off at first by the ending. The rest of the episode was so cool, with all the AU people remembering, and what was happening on the island.
Then the ending felt like a big WTF let-down, like the writers didn't know how to end it so they held a big cast party in the church and called it a day.
We hashed it out for a couple of hours while watching Jimmy Kimmel and after - and then it dawned on us, what Christian said to Jack, and we realized, the island WAS real ... and Jack did die after that scene, on the island ... and in the AU he went to heaven with the friends he wanted to die together with, irrespective of when they actually died.
It all hinged on what Christian said. We were so happy when we got it - we could finally go to bed, and yes, it all made sense and was a great ending.
And then I came here to your blog wondering what everyone was saying, figuring most people must be saying WTF, that sucked.
And then I saw that you, Nikki, got it, too, exactly like we did. I could have cyber-hugged you. The fact that you pointed to the very same, exact lines by Christian my loved one and I finally landed on, well, that's awesome.
It's especially awesome because, in a show where there have been disparate opinions about everything since day one, your (and our) interpretation is one fans can agree on, once they get it.
Thank you again for all your wonderful books, and this blog, Nikki. I can't wait to read more reactions. But I think my loved one finally nailed it, and you did too, Nikki. And once having understood it?
Then the ending rocked.
No longer am I ... lost.
WV - undessi: What I feared had happened to Desmond when he removed the cork.
I disagree about Shannon. Nadia would have been out of place - she was never on the Island. Sayid had his life with her, but Shannon was an unresolved relationship. And I do believe he loved her.
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of his emotion for Nadia was tied in to his guilt for who he had been, anyway. Soul mate shmoulmate.
Anyone here watch Ashes to Ashes?
I was a bit confused by seeing John Pyper Ferguson delivering Christian's body. He generally plays lead guest spots, not tiny cameos. Then I remembered that he had worked with Carlton on Brisco County Jr, and realized that it was a nice symmetry - JJ had Greg G in the pilot, and Carlton had Pyper in the finale.
i loved this finale to death. but i still have some wierd feeling about it. i literaly have no clue what it is but its wierd.
ReplyDeleteAnd somehow I posted twice, even though it said it didn't post. *sigh* Wish there were a delete button.
ReplyDeleteAs far as who was in the church - I don't think that because someone was on the Island, they might necessarily pass on at the same time. Alex and Danielle weren't there (and neither was Karl). I'd like to think that was some of the business that Ben had to finish.
For that matter, neither was Jacob.
Sobbing right along with you.
ReplyDeleteThanks for everything.
It's been epic.
I haven't read any of the previous comments. I'm walking away from "The End" with a feeling that is inexplicable (at least at the moment).
ReplyDeleteLike you said, the show is about faith, and different faiths allow different interpretations.
The ending moved me beyond words. While everyone else in the room began chatting excitedly as soon as the Bad Robot logo careened onto the screen, I remained silent, taking in what I had just seen and trying to absorb the fact that the end had truly come.
Nikki,Ii think I speak for everyone on this blog when I say: THANK YOU.
Thank you for taking us along with you on this journey. Thank you for shedding light into the darkest corners of the Island, illuminating secrets that we would never have seen otherwise.
Everyone else, THANK YOU. Thank you for being my fellow passengers on this extraordinary journey through the most extraordinary world in the history of television. I feel a bit like Jack Shephard, having been able to experience all of these wonderful things alongside such wonderful people, and gathering with you all after the fact to share those memories together.
To the cast and crew of the show, THANK YOU. Thank you for bringing this amazing work of creation off of a black-and-white page and into life.
I walk away from LOST full of gratitude, full of emotion, full of faith. Most importantly, I walk away from LOST full. Period. The emptiness I thought I'd feel once the show ended has been replaced with the warm, wonderful knowledge that such a great story has been told, that I was around to hear it.
THANK YOU, LOST. For everything.
Namaste.
I'm so glad someone understood the finale the same way I did!
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a brilliant, emotional, touching ending to a brilliant, emotional, touching show!
I wouldn't change a thing about it!
Perfect. Absolutely, perfectly perfect. I couldn't be happier if I were twins.
ReplyDeleteJust before we started watching the show, we opened a bottle of Moët and toasted our good fortune. How'd you guys celebrate and say goodbye?
Just when I thought I understood the sideways world, I have more questions.
ReplyDeleteSo was the whole SW in purgatory? Does that mean Desmond and everyone he contacts are already dead? Is Jack's son dead, Alex? and Daniel? Does Eloise not want Daniel to go to Heaven yet?
Jack told Locke he was going to pick up his son. Locke says you don't have a son. Did Jack marry Juliet and have a son, then get divorced all in Purgatory? Or did that never happen.
When Sawyer called Miles Enos did he realize he had called him that in Dharmaville? (he wasn't aware of things yet) When Dharma work ended he told Miles to stop calling him boss.
I loved the ending but that sort of ending is bound to get me and leave others scratching their head. I do wish we had been given more answers, especially about Dharma. We spent years on that subject, including talking about it and reading about it online and to not have it thoroughly explained, was to me a disappointment. I assume however Damon and Carlton feel they did explain it enough.
ReplyDeleteRegardless, it was an episode on a show I will never forget.
Thanks for the recap Nikki. I was left scratching my head after the finale and it helped a lot in figuring out what the hell happened.
ReplyDeleteHey Nikki!
ReplyDeleteI tried to post some "deep" thoughts during the CTV live chat, but never got through. No worries. I'll post some of my thoughts here.
The BIG MESSAGE that Lost seemed to be saying in "The End" is that we can't do it alone. No man is an "island" (wink). We need community and love to truly thrive as human beings. That is a message that is universal whether you are a theist or atheist.
Some initial thoughts . . .
1. Team Darlton teased that Walt would make an appearance in the finale during their live chat from NYC on Thursday. What gives!?!
2. I could accept that Shannon shows up in the church with Sayid. She was a part of the Oceanic Posse. Nadia was not. Plus Nadia in some respects is a bit of an unrequited love for Sayid. Love never fulfilled.
3. I wish that the actor who played Eko had left the show on better terms. When Emerson mentioned during the live chat on Thursday that his fave character was Eko, you could see this dark look cross Carlton Cuse's face that translated into: "Yeah, we loved the character too. Wish we hadn't cast such a flighty actor in the part . . . who we will never work with again". (sigh)
4. I actually shouted at the TV when Ben showed up on the beach. "Hey! How did he get out from under that massive tree!?!" (deleted scene I guess)
5. Also wondered if Ben didn't join everyone in the church because he wasn't ready to leave the island and stop being it's protector.
6. I also never really saw Jacob and MIB as Good vs. Evil. Felt it was a bit more nuanced than that. I think they were each fed narratives as little boys that they believed were true. This "truth" having been repeated so many times became their reality. Jacob killed his brother and then threw him into the light and dark smoke came out. Because of the way Jacob killed his brother and disposed of his body, maybe the smoke is not a manifestation of his bro, but is actually the evil/dark/negative energy of Jacob. In many respects Smokey/MIB was more of a "protector" of the island. But in more of a guard dog kinda way. They are twins, so in many respects I think that are facets of the same soul and combined they represent balance. Kinda like the Vorlons and Shadows in Babylon 5. Order vs. Chaos. Stagnation vs. Change. What the heroes of that show had to do was break away from both of them and tell them to mind their own business and let them decide their own fates.
7. What was up with young Jacob showing up in the bushes behind the orchestra during Jimmy Kimmel!?!?
8. Lots of tears. Probably the biggest ones for Sawyer and Juliet's reunion. I love Juliet.
9. The no babies on the island thing. My feeling is that it is a punishment/curse imposed on the Others for violating the "rules" by the powers that be. Most likely for the purge of Dharmaville. Balance. If you take innocent lives, you will not be allowed to create new life.
10. Walt's "Special" powers? Lots of folks have special powers on the island. Lots of folks are told they are special. Sometimes this word is thrown around as curse. When Locke briefly saw Walt going to school being a "normal" kid it was probably the healthiest and happiest Walt had been in some time. Locke was right to just "let it be". And they did.
11. Glad that Jack and Christian were finally able to make their peace with eachother. The forgiveness moment they never had while they were still alive. This likely was the mysterious end scene all the other actors had been eluding to in interviews that was between two characters and was shot in secret and no one got to read.
Well that's all for now.
So time for bed now.
I'll keep an eye on your BLOG and maybe we'll see each other this summer at Polaris or SFX.
Namaste
Lyla
Nashville Beatle: if they died in the initial crash, and the last six seasons have been depicting Jack's journey through purgatory to heaven, then why did he see Ajira 316 pass overhead just as he died?
ReplyDeleteNo, I think the events happened just as we saw them, and the sideways universe is their afterlife. This show has always played fast and loose with timelines, with flashbacks and flashforwards, so the idea that the sideways universe took place further in the future, after everyone's deaths, is not impossible.
I very much enjoyed the finale and I've also enjoyed your recaps throughout this season. But I think you are over thinking the sideways world. Especially in thinking that those that weren't there went to hell. Perhaps after spending so much time dissecting everything that happened throughout these six seasons we have a desire to tie everything up. But maybe we should just "let go" and except things at face value: the sideways world was simply a place you go to after death, just a another step in the journey through existence.
ReplyDeleteIn any case it's been a great run and I'm glad I stayed with the show. The payoff was worth every minute.
I'd like to suggest that the Buddhist concept of the Bardo fits the sideways world better than the Christian purgatory.
ReplyDeleteAs in Kim Stanley Robinson's book, "The Years of Salt and Rice" (it contains a good popularization of the bardo), the characters meet there after their death before proceeding on to new lives and new incarnations -- in which they are once again important to one another's lives.
Taking awhile to let everything sink in. I really enjoyed the ending to the finale. It had closure as the producers talked about but also left some things uncertain for speculation to the end of the time.
ReplyDeleteI will assume the losties did not die from the initial plain crash or from jughead but as Christian explained, at various times. Some died before Jack did (Boone, Charlie, Shannon, Sayid, Jin, Sun, etc.) and some died after Jack did (Hurley, Ben, Kate, Aaron, Sawyer, Rose, Bernard, Desmond, Penny, etc.). It's just that they all waited in purgatory for Jake to realize where he was so they could all move on together.
So Hurley proved to be more important as the producers hinted at before the season began. Jack's time as protector was short. Hurley as protector with Ben as his assistant, I wonder what kind of rules Hurley would be able to create. Did Hurley end up having to defend against an evil presence on the island? What kind of fun did he have and for how long? Left to my own devices on those...
So the scene of the island submerged under water in the season six premiere...wonder when that came into play. I will assume it happened long after Hurley became protector, perhaps that's how he and Ben ultimately died.
It was fun to see their story end with Jack dying on the island along with the gang moving on after dying. They left open to interpretation everything that happened in between. What did Sawyer, Kate, Claire, etc. do once they got back to civilization...if they even did? Did Claire end up raising Aaron?
While they did leave open questions from seasons past (Walt's powers, why was Claire not suppose to let anyone else raise Aaron, exactly what brought 815 to the island...was it Desmond not pushing the button or Jacob...or was it Jacob placing them on a path that would bring them to the island..., etc.).
Overall, it will be a very interesting trip to watch the sixth season back knowing they were in purgatory in the alt-uni....let alone watching the entire series back. Woah boy.
There is now next week...sniffle :(:(
ReplyDeleteFor those who thought the island as purgatory or that we were cheated because the science gave way to spirituality I disagree. The End reminded me of suffering and karmic debt the way a Buddhist explained it to me years ago on All Things Philosophical On BTVS&ATS board regarding Angel the series:
http://www.atpobtvs.com/existentialscoobies/archives/feb2_p.html#1370
Angel's Karmic Baggage & Angulimala
by Ryuei
There was a passage in the post that made me think of the characters (good and bad) in Lost and why they changed or didn’t in relation to how the series ended:
So the lesson here is that even a serial killer can escape his karmic debt if (and only if) he lets go of the "self" that accrued that debt through awakening to the selfless nature of things. One must repent not only of ones actions but even of the self that did them and the self that futilely seeks to atone for them. In Buddhism it is clinging to self that motivates all our greedy angry and deluded actions and on a subtler level it motivates our attempts at self-improvement and self-seeking efforts at salvation. Only letting go of the self completely will bring about liberation from the endless cycle of actions and their retributions. Once the delusion of self is let go of the reality of interdependence with all other beings and phenomena becomes clear and can become manifest in our actions.
Each characters now isn't the others, as some have lived and died in separate times and places. We saw Jack's death and that place he had made which contained the most important people who impacted him. He did everything he did on the island including saving it and passing it onto Hurley. His last moments end with his guardian to the next part, which is the church where they end with Christian Shepherd (Vincent and all dogs and cats, animals do not have the same type of conflict with their self therefore go directly to that next place IMO). Kate went on the help Claire, Hurley and Ben lived a long time before passing the Guardianship on. Ben needed to stay in that created spot to reflect (live with his daughter) a bit more before he moved on. Eloise just wasn’t ready to leave the place where her son still was alive to her and she may not be ready to leave for a long time. There was no set religion that was picked to explain everything but a representation of the many faiths and ideas that make humanity what we are represented in the room with the coffin. Sure we could have had a scientific ending which explained how the many universe theory or physics in general could explain where they have been or are going to but I don't think that matters as much as how these people ended with each other to let go.
nikki this is my first and last post. Thanks for your commentary on the show. I have really enjoyed reading your take on each episode and the comments of your readers.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteYou're nuts for posting this, Nikki, but we're grateful that you are.
I so wanted to be part of the CTV chat, but the 'Net connection was dead and the page wouldn't even load until now. [Just to explain, since I've bitched about this a lot: We use Comcast — *ptui* — and I live in a shared house with no control over the computer into which the Internet cable goes or over the Wi-Fi router that, despite a supposed recent upgrade, sends out a very weak signal to my laptop. Anyone have a Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, etc. wireless plan that they'd recommend? Despite the price, I think I'm gonna hafta break down and subscribe to one; it just took me about half and hour to submit this comment.]
Addition to Hurley’s Numbers: The billed cast — no guest stars, which I loved, just the whole ensemble listed alphabetically up front — numbered 23, which was Jack's number and the one most frequently seen in the episode. Yes, I count things like credits; one of my best friends is OCD and it kind-of rubs off on you.
More to come, but in short I thought the episode was a phenomenal piece of work that wrapped up this season tremendously and, from a character standpoint, the series as well with much more closure, tears, and joy than I expected. Sadly there was even less attention paid to lingering questions from the narrative meat of the previous five seasons than I expected as well. The series finale wasn't a failure in the least except insofar as, in retrospect, the final season and thus the series as a whole was, to an extent, a failure by the producers' own bizarrely discarded litmus.
I don't get why people found the explanation we got of the "flafterlife" pregnant with more mystery. On this score I'm not left wanting more at all, but some loved ones I spoke to felt differently, less dissatisfied than speculating much more than I am on the resolution of that conceit and the final Island scenes. Although it is a little weird that that whole storyline was not only in no way connected to the Incident but, as I punned in my own in-the-works blogpost, essentially incidental to any of the main action, serving purely to give us another perspective on the characters, bring back faces for a final bow, and allow for something of a happy ending.
VW: soventi — Well, I don't want a short, tall, or grande...
Hey you! From Buffy to Lost, we've been on quite the ride together.
ReplyDeleteAfter being on social media blackout since 2 p.m. PT today, I ended up live blogging the show (http://bit.ly/getlostfinale).
I had to laugh because your "Tears" moments sync up with mine.
I think, over the next few weeks, we'll see the same fan reactions (grief, sadness, etc.) from the Lost fans as we did from BtVS fans when that ended.
Nice wrap up. See you on the other side.
:) Kara
@californiakara
I have one other teary-eyed moment to add to the list: Vincent laying down next to the dying Jack. :(
ReplyDeleteI was a wreck too !
ReplyDeleteI first got the "Oh, No" when John Locke, in recovery room, said "You don't HAVE a son, Jack."
Ohhh. Then we knew the other had been a fleeting idea -- I miss Ben Linus the history teacher most of all for it and wish it were a coexisting timeline that was as real.
And then I got the fear that MIB, who had just died as a mortal, was waking up in John Locke's body "You don't have a son, Jack."
Glad it wasn't that! I don't think I've been so wrecked from a show ever, and if they never got to any sensible answers (there aren't any!!!), their goal -- to make it all about connections and recognizing and savoring them came through loud and clear.
If they couldn't make a happier ending, they made one that would work at least quite a bit for all who wouldn't want one ending or another. Looking forward to the Kimmel show and any 'serious' alternate endings :-)
Thanks for all your work on this and bringing us along. Recently bought your books (didn't know about them earlier) for my Kindle, which means they're all in my purse with me at any time :-) A lot to savor there.
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ReplyDeleteI'm too tired to post anything much tonight, but wanted to throw this out there: My impression was that the people re-connecting in the FSW and going on from the church were there to do exactly what they said: remember, let go, move on ( to where is a very open question.) So I think that these people had some kind of unfinished business with each other that they needed to resolve. I don't think that Sayid necessarily "ends up" with Shannon; I just think there was something there that was unresolved, something that needed to be closed out before either of them could go on.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I'm crazy about the way the FSW ends up; it's a bit too corny and pat for my taste. But I LOVED the way the island story resolved. Jack dead, Hurley the new Jacob, Ben his right-hand guy (NEVER saw that coming!), Desmond sent off to return to Penny and little Charlie...excellent.
More tomorrow, if I ever read through the deluge of posts that is no doubt coming.
Oh, I forgot. Like you, I hoped there would be come kind of nod to MIB's having done nothing more wrong than some in that church, prior to being thrown in the cave and having to come out as smoke though not due to Greed -- maybe due to anger at his crazy murdering non-mother. I can't imagine one deserves hell-in-smoke for cynicism.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if anyone noticed (haven't seen it posted anywhere yet) but the stained glass window behind Christian in the church had symbols representing various religions on it. I saw Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Zenism(I think), but I'm not sure of the others.
ReplyDeleteI think Shannon and Sayid worked out as it did because if Sayid and Nadia were truly meant for each other, Sayid would've had his break through the first time he ever met her.
I have problems with some characters not being in the church (Walt and Eko being the most obvious) but other characters, like Richard, Miles and Lapidus wouldn't of gone with the others most likely. I felt bad for Locke for moving on alone instead of with Helen and Boone is the third wheel to Shannon and Sayid, which probably sucks since he's in love with her and now has to spent eternity watching them suck face.
Having minor characters with little connection to the others like Danielle, Alex, Karl, etc there would've been strange. Those three would be better served going up on the next elevator with Ben.
It really is a shame about Eko though. I'd say he's stuck on the island but we already know he's not since Hurley saw him in the institute.
All said and done, the finale was incredible and the AfterFlashes paid off. Watching Jack die in the same spot we first opened the show with was AMAZING. His eye closing to end the series was predictable but still great. Did Vincent really need to show up as someone died AGAIN? That's the dog of friggin' death.
Too many thoughts all at once, time to sleep and collect thoughts...
Despite the finale being emotionally satisfying, I was wondering after the encounter between Ms Hawking and Desmond at the museum, what if Desmond is the angel of death collecting souls? Sure enough, it turns out to be something like that; Desmond is aware they had all died, and now was bringing them to that realization. (Another structural parallel to when Ms Hawking wanted Ben to bring the entire Oceanic 6 to the church).
ReplyDeleteThen I thought, oh crap, this is just Jacob's Ladder retold from Jack's point of view. In the case of LOST, the island is real, and Lapidus and the others did escape on Ajira 316 (so they really did survive the crash of Flight 815). At least that was a relief, and we don't have to reimagine the entire 6 seasons of LOST as dead people making their way to heaven.
But I'm torn. Emotionally this was satisfying. But at the same time, a part of my brain is saying, "sentimental tripe," and a narrative evasion of the logic of the story (much like the end of the Return of the Jedi where the soul of Obi Wan Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin Skywalker appear together). Sentimentally it works, but does it work in terms of the logic of the narrative--in terms of the mythology? I'm a little bit dubious on that. So does this ending undercut the whole mythology of the island? I think it does. Then what motivated the writers to produce such an ending? Does it allow the audience to deflect the hard fought for realities made on the island by simply dismissing them at the end with a sentimental ending? How we answer that may tell us more about ourselves than about the show.
So what was the significance of the numbers?
ReplyDeleteI loved the last episode. When I got a glimpse into where they were going was when we saw Shannon and Boone in the sideways world, for then I saw that even the ones who had died were gathering.
ReplyDeleteOne of my favorite parts that no one has mentioned was the presence of Vincent. He likely rescued Desmond from the pit, was the beloved companion of Rose and Bernard, and loyally, came running to lie down beside the dying Jack. That was so sweet and made me cry, in addition to many of the same instances as you, Nikki.
Yes, it has been a faith-based show all throughout, and faith wins over science. I loved when Jack admitted that Locke was right, and wished he could have told him that when he was alive.
Thanks, Nikki. I enjoyed your blog weekly to help sort out my own "guesstimates" of what was going on. I will miss the show and the blog tremendously.
Watching Jack lie there and knowing his famous eye would close this time, I wondered if, except for his different clothing, he was one of all those who died in the original crash.
ReplyDeleteALWAYS, we've said no one could have survived in a crash where the plane broke in half in the air and then plummeted to earth.
But on the Kimmel show, Matthew Fox reiterates that the island part was "real" (ummm) and this idea IS important for the 'connections' thing to work, even if it would work for me if it all happened or was created in his rich delerium.
At the very least, they wrote an absorbing, involving story. All those people became very real in my tv-watcher's mind...
I found the show very emotionally satisfying, but mythology wise...well I would have preferred a clearer understanding of what the island actually was if nothing else. The mystical aspects of what happened on the island sometimes made it seem less real than the sideways world.
ReplyDeleteDespite that, I found myself being choked up several times (the “awakenings” of Sun and Jin and especially Juliet and Sawyer). I like thinking that the sideways world was a way station of sorts to prepare those that have died to move on. (I really don't like to think of it as purgatory which to me implies that these people need to do some penance before they are allowed to move on. I think they have already found their redemption before getting here, which is why I prefer to think of it as a way station or holding area instead.)
As far as the phone call to Jack about the coffin, only one call needed to be made. Since this “sideways” world has been created by the characters participating in it, it doesn’t really matter who makes the call to Jack. It only matters that Jack receives a call and believes his father’s coffin has been found. Desmond makes the call and Desmond ensures there is a coffin for Jack to see. The coffin helps awaken Jack and when he sees it is empty, the rest of the puzzle pieces fall into place for Jack. The sideways world is more or less like a dream created by the players possibly to protect themselves from the shock of their own deaths. Eventually, they awaken to the reality of their life and death, accept it and are then ready to move on.
The key to awakening for many of them seems to be the love they experienced on the island. Interestingly when Locke awakens, he no longer seems to need Helen or the love she brought him that made him content in the sideways world. He goes alone into the church. (Helen was not on the island after all.)
Nadia was never on the island either; but I think choosing Shannon for Sayid was as much a shout out to the original cast as it was to anything else. Perhaps it could be explained by saying there was a part of Sayid that felt that despite his love for Nadia, they did not truly belong together. After all, in the sideways world he created along with the other island players, he had Nadia married to his brother rather than himself. Also, his interaction with her never seemed to have awakened anything within him. (Although if it had way back in episode 6?, Sundown, they would have given to much away before the end and would have confused the heck out of us. Well they do that anyway.)
I found it sad that Ben was not ready to join the others. The last scene with him and Locke and then him and Hurley really touched me. Ben’s desire to make up for the sins of his life were so evident in the sideways; the way he treated Alex and Danielle and the way he wanted to protect Locke makes so much more sense now. It’s too bad we did not get to see too much of the dynamic between Hurley and Ben though. You can’t help but think they turned into a great team on the island.
Well, great write up Nikki. I don’t know how you got it up so fast. It’s after 3 am, so this tired Lost fan is going to bed. Hope I can get back here to read the comments and in the next few days.
I think what bothers me most about the FSW ending is that I loved this show because it made me think. So to end it with something that is only satisfying on an emotional level and that relies on faith - which is definitionally unrelated to thought - does not work for me. It is to simplistic; I wanted something more complex.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I don't think this is about heaven and hell, redemption and damnation - it is very vague (intentionally, I am sure), so you can take from it whatever you choose. I got that they are all - in whatever way - returning to the Source. (which is on the island, so perhaps they are all headed back there...)
@Nikki: • “Nothing is irreversible.”...Interesting that Sayid does get to go, though.
ReplyDeleteThroughout, Sayid understood the evil he did and tried to reform himself. At the end, he redeemed himself by sacrificing himself for his friends. “No greater love has a man than to lay down his life for his friends.”
I had no tears until the very end, then @Mark R.Y.: Vincent lying down next to the dying Jack.
The Target commercials were brilliant! The boar crashing through the jungle – steak sauce!
The numbers typed in, but the Execute button won’t – new keyboard! Smokey roaring across the beach – smoke alarm! ROTFLMAO!
And the Verizon texts during the pre-finale review with cast comments were terrific! How clever to have them in written form read by each character!
The absolute best in the pre-finale program was the narration by Titus Welliver. I could listen to that man’s marvelous voice forever! ;*)
Just a quick post to say thanks Nikki and I'll miss logging on Friday mornings to read your excellent recaps filling in any blanks I have from the previous nights episode. A great last show, we were never going to get all the answers, thanks again
ReplyDeleteNow whats the next show to obsess over
i kept holding back tears while reading this but it was no use... i've read all other recaps and yet to watch the show... i don't really much care of being spoiled before watching it... coz i know when i watch it tonight i'll probably forget what i've read and be in the moment. if i cried reading the many recaps posted so far what more when i watch it tonight. this is/was the season of lost that made me cry so many times and probably the only tv show i ever watch that really made me cry. i love reading the many different theories about the show but for me i was more invested on the characters (in most of the tv shows i watch esp. non-procedural). i can't wait to watch it tonight yet i already feel nostalgic. and i hate it when i have no one to share it with here, not my group of friends, co-workers and family.
ReplyDelete(still sniffling....)
Anna, you share with us.
ReplyDeleteWhat? Uhm... hmm... Well, it... yeah? DUDE!
ReplyDeleteHoly crap! I mean, what just happened?! Did LOST just fly by in flashes before my eyes? I feel like I have to go back and watch the entire series ab aeterno (en Latin, from the beginning). I mean, sure, it didn't answer everything. I have NO IDEA what the extent of Walt's powers are. However, I feel as though the show has ended well, and that when I inevitibly rewatch the show fourteen times I will see how they did have a small plan. In fact, as the answers were flowing out of my speakers I found myself laughing out loud at points. "Of course!" "Hahaha, like in season three" "Oh DUH."
Where was Walt? I saw about eight frames of him in someone's montage of anothah life, brotha. However funny it may seem to Darlton, that does not count as seeing from Malcolm David Kelley. D:
I actually found myself forgetting the questions I have about the mythology of the show. The finale pulled me back to season one when I was more interested with the characters than the smoke monster, and I found that a literally awesome way to end the show. A week ago I was wishing Across the Sea had explained more, and wishing that there was another mythology episode somewhere in there. Now I'm happy that the finale is this rather than a flashback of the Egyptians building Taweret. Somehow, the last two episodes have ended LOST in a way that a lot of people didn't think was possible. I'm thoroughly amazed.
I can't wait to watch the pilot followed by the finale tomorrow. It'll make it easier to see the parallels between the two.
Where did Eloise Hawking get all of her special information about the island? What did she know about Desmond and the future of the island that caused her to get involved in Desmond's life?
ReplyDeleteQuick repost from 5/6, while I think some more about omphalos, Homer and Milton and Dante's Hells, and theCity of Angels. I'm gonna need some therapy.
ReplyDeleteThe R2D2 thing got me in a little hot water with Rainier, no disrespect intended ;)
Jack is "the hero" (according to Sawyer)
Kate is the hero without quotes. She is Eowyn, the candidate unmarked, off the misogynist radar. The fact that evil entities like Widmore and MIB disregard her is precisely what empowers her--the arrogance engendered by prophetic knowledge that "not by the hand of man will he fall" is fatal if there's an able bodied woMAN (Kate) in front of you and a hobbit (Charlie) behind you.
Think I'm blurring my stories? Aren't they? Didn't Haroun's father?
Can't Kate/Eowyn, Charlie/Merry, and Desmond/Gandalf jointly smite the Lord of the Nazgul while Sayid/Anakin, Jack/Luke and Sawyer/Han work a little deathly Jedi trick on the Emperor? I hope so since the white side of the chessboard just experienced considerable attrition.
(Hurley is, by the way, R2D2)
Kate's not a candidate 'cuz she's not on the wall? I'll take my truth from the beacon itself: 51 (a pretty and symmetric 110011) on the compass dial = Austen as proof.
I haven't read anything, and don't even know what's been posted yet.
ReplyDeleteAs I write this, it's 4:46 AM Monday morning, and the local cable (TV and Internet) has been COMPLETELY down since about halfway through Jimmy Kimmel. The local ABC affiliate, Time Warner Cable, had trouble all night long, and I'm sure they are gonna catch all kinds of hell today. We got to see ALL of Lost, but the picture sometimes jumped all over the screen, went in and out, and even when it stopped, they ran the "Experiencing Technical Difficulties" scroll all the way up until the end of Lost. They've already announced that it will be rerun in it's entirety this coming Saturday. But I missed the end of J. Kimmel, and until we get back up, there's no way to know if I can ever see that now.
The computer comes back up sometimes for about ten or fifteen seconds, and if I get an opportunity to post this, I w
Christian's coffin had been to Hong Kong! That made my day, ha ha.
ReplyDelete@Redeem147
I watch Ashes to Ashes and there were some similarities weren't there?
A wonderful smile-filled, tear-filled ending.
ReplyDeleteAs to who was and wasn't in the church preparing to leave, it would be somewhat satisfying to think they were all on the plane and died in the crash, so naturally Miles, Frank, and Ben wouldn't be there. But then Desmond, Penny, and Juliet weren't aboard either.
Matthew Fox in the pre-show said Desmond was the "constant" and, of course, Penny was Desmond's constant, so maybe they were there as an example of the constancy of love that ensures a blissful hereafter.
All the truelove couples have finally found each other - Jack and Kate, James and Juliet, Sun and Jin, Charlie and Claire, Hugo and Libby, Sayid and Shannon (?), Rose and Bernard, along with Des and Penny. Aaron at least has a family, but Locke and Boone are still alone, so maybe the "love is the answer" approach falls a bit short too.
Ah, so much to think and speculate about. Thanks, Nikki, for all your thoughts and speculations over the years.
I see, by the way, that you read Golding's "Lord of the Flies" in preparation for the series. Jack's eye closing immediately put me in mind of Golding's third novel, "Pincher Martin." To all Lost fans: if you haven't already read it, please do so. It is well worth your time.
Depending on how I frame it in my mind the finale was either completely perfect or bitterly disappointing. I guess the two aren't mutually exclusive.
ReplyDeleteTo answer some questions about the people in the church, the people who were there are the ones who's lives were most profoundly effected by their time on the island and by each other. We could make the argument for anyone who wasn't there that possibly other events/people in their lives were more important.
I guess as far as keeping the in the spirit of the show and the major themes it was pretty perfect. When I think about all of the various plot points and storylines that were started and never resolved disappointing.
I love that they didn't answer all of the questions, but I don't feel like they knew how the show was going to end as recently as the end of last season. I feel like there was no larger plan to the show. While they may have had the last scene in mind when they started the show (despite it being so obvious the last shot was still incredibly moving.)
After today I realised it’s all a Transformers tribute
ReplyDeleteThe Island = Cybertron
Jacob = Optimus Prime
Jack = Ultra Magnus
Hurley = Rodimus Prime
MIB = Megatron
Flocke = Galvatron
Ben = StarScream
Some pretty uncanny similarities between the plots of both stories
As far as Ana Lucia, Mr. Eko, Ben and Richard possibly going to hell so they aren't there....you're going to want to re-think that one! Desmond said Ana Lucia wasn't ready "yet," Ben himsel said he still had things to work on, I assume Richard has found his Isabella, and Mr. Eko and ABC couldn't work out contract negotiations (but more seriously...Mr Eko redeemed himself to himself and has no need of this construct). I don't think in this idea of the afterlife hell is even an issue--they've already been in hell most of their lives.
ReplyDeleteOne quick comment about Jack & the incantation:
ReplyDeleteI think he DID say it, just way before the scene where he gave Hurley the water. Didn't it sound like Jack was saying the incantation at the very beginning of the episode while standing in the river? (Y'know, 2 frickin' hours before he needed to!)
Notice how he didn't ask Ben & Hurley if they "had something to drink" merely "something to drink out of."
And thanks to you when I saw Vincent the Dog of Death come lay down with Jack I couldn't stop laughing through my tears. :)
OK - I've had a little time to process. I have to confess the sideways world ending was a little sentimental for my tastes. I'm a cynical Brit after all.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I LOVED the island ending. I am so made up that Ben gets to help out Hurley - it is fitting for a show where the lines between good and evil were blurred (I hate using the past tense)
I LOVED Jack quietly dying in the bamboo with Vincent beside him (However, it always makes me laugh when dogs lie like that with their legs splayed. My mum calls it the 'rotten chicken pose' because she once roasted a chicken that turned out to be rotten and it did that)
I LOVED that Miles and Richard and Lapidus survived.
I LOVED the Sawyer/Juliet reunion (and I didn't even mind the Sayid/Shannon reunion as much as I thought I would, although I agree with another poster about how it's a bit creepy that Boone gets to be the gooseberry)
What I just don't get is - why did Jack have a son in the sideways world? Maybe he was married to Juliet because that was unfinished business when they were alive. But why did he have a son? To help him get over his Daddy issues?
The writers turned grown men in emotional wrecks with this Finale !
ReplyDeleteThe SW scenes just got me every time, everyone an emotional get together brilliantly thought out.
They saved the island, the world, everyone’s existence….and found peace for themselves.
Nikki said: "So... did Jack end up getting two phone calls from Oceanic? Desmond fake-called him, making us all think the coffin wasn’t really there, but if it WAS there, then why didn’t Oceanic actually call Jack as well?"
ReplyDeleteI hope I can finish typing this one thing before the internet crashed again:
Nikki: Isn't it possible that even though Jack wasn't quite ready to let go and move on, the call from Oceanic could have happened a very long time ago? They never showed it happening because Jack could never face that it had, in fact, happened? Maybe???
@Nikki re: "So... did Jack end up getting two phone calls from Oceanic? Desmond fake-called him, making us all think the coffin wasn’t really there, but if it WAS there, then why didn’t Oceanic actually call Jack as well?"
ReplyDeleteNo ~ he only needed Desmond's call, because (per Christian) the sideways wasn't real. There wasn't a "real" Oceanic in the sideways to call him. Desmond was just setting things up for Jack to come to the point he needed to be at.
Perfect end (as you say, we can have lots of interpretations)... On the subject of the light and your comment: "The light in the cave represented both the capacity for good AND evil within each one of us. When the people approached the light with greed, it did harm. When they approached it with goodness, it did good. This is still the major thing up in the air for me, the thing that I think will require the most discussion among all of you and me to help me through this one." I remember an old myth used by Wagner in his Ring: "As the sun begins to rise, the maidens praise the golden glow atop a nearby rock; Alberich asks what it is. The Rhine maidens tell him about the Rhine gold, which their father has ordered them to guard: it can be made into a magic Ring which will let its bearer rule the world, but only by someone who first renounces love." (Wikipedia). Fortunately it was not the case of the candidates from Oceanic 6...
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHaven't read everything yet, but just wanted to get a few thoughts out for my own processing.
ReplyDelete"The island was the place of redemption" - Yes, I think that nails it. From the beginning, the producers said that the show was about lost people on a lost island. I was glad to see at the end that this wasn't just a this-worldly epic about survival and life and death, but a transcendent experience about how the lost will be found. And in the end (and in "The End"), what ultimately mattered was the community of loved ones who helped each other navigate the challenges of this life and make their way into the next.
Someone commented in a previous week that Jack's mission throughout the whole series has been to get his people off the island. Now we see that that has ultimately come true, if not in real life, then in the afterlife. Everybody has been searching for their true home, their true loves, and if they could not find it in this life, they have found it in the hereafter. Beautiful.
Thanks, everybody, for all the contributions to this community. I only stumbled across this blog at the end of season 5 (and wish I had found it much earlier!), but you have been wonderful traveling companions on this journey. See you in the sideways universe!
One more thought: In some ways, both the island and the sideways universe were purgatorial. The island was a means for many to approach death, and the sideways universe was how the characters navigated their way after death. So the island and the sideways universe functioned as the two sides of the transition, and we got to see how people dealt with facing death both prior to and afterward.
ReplyDeleteDammit, I forgot to subscribe to the comments. BOONT!
ReplyDeleteWOW. Way to make me cry Lost. To all those who thought that the series would end on Jack's eye closing (me included), they were right! And they were right in a way that they were in purgatory . . . in the flash-sideways timeline and only the ones who had died in the original timeline were moving on. But if I was alone, I would have been SCREAMING with sobs. My mind is swarming with stuff to say.
ReplyDeleteI cried:
-The Charlie and Claire scene. They were my favourite Lost couple
-(Almost) when Kate was saying goodbye to Jack before she went with Sawyer and Claire to the plane. I think what got to me was Kate saying "I love you" to Jack. Even though I thought that she would get with Jack in the other time-line (kind of hard that he's dead. *sniffle*)
-The last 20 minutes. Uncontrollably
I'm actually glad that Kate didn't choose between Jack and Sawyer. I'm definitely not a shipper. But I was kind of glad that she told Jack she loved him, because she never told anyone that she loved them, except for her husband, Mal Reynolds . . . I mean Kevin (just went through a Firefly phase), and look how THAT turned out.
Will Richard, Miles, Kate, Claire, Frank and Sawyer be the Ajira Six if they get to the real world?
I'm actually really glad that Kate shot Not-Locke. She probably hated him more than Jack, and she was actually kind of creepy when she shot him. But all Jack did was push him off the cliff. At first I thought, maybe he wasn't dead. But no . . . he's dead.
Did anyone else like the Lost themed Target commercials featuring "Dharma Girl" on ABC? Even though I'm Canadian, I wanted to watch Lost on its original broadcaster this season in high definition.
I'll have more to say once I get more than five hours of sleep, and once I watch the episode again in solitude.
@Nikki I have to say why I disagree with you on a few points.
ReplyDeleteFirst purgatory. I think it's because I see purgatory as a punishment that I disagree but you do make your point. I think we are using different words to say the same thing.
Now Sayid. Nadia was the ideal that Sayid had thought he had to live up to and never could. He couldn't ever keep her in the island reality or the sideways one. I think that Shannon and Sayid needed each other and were better people because of their time together.
After a second viewing I wondered about where Hurley was in time when he helped people get to the church. I wondered if we were seeing the end of the protector of the island Hurley. His kindness to Said was just so, Hurley. They did say the job wasn't forever.
Loved what Jack said to fake Locke being just something that wore Locke's face and was a disgrace to it. Locke was always right and the MIB couldn't deal with it. Very apt he dies wearing Locke's body.
As for Jack fixing everything. He fixed Locke and that was as good as his admission on the island that Locke was right. Locke returns the favor when he tells Jack he never had a son. When he realizes Jack isn't ready yet he can only encourage Jack with "I hope someone does for you what you just did for me."
oh my goodness... I get it. Somewhere in the night, my subconscious pulled together all the little strands of conversation from the chat, Nikki's post and the few comments I read before I went to bed and I totally get it now. My brain is still pulling stuff together and I have a few questions that I'm working through, but...
ReplyDeleteI GET IT!
And I'm totally floating on air right now. It's amazing and beautiful and I SO wish I had gotten it last night, because the end was tainted for me because I was so confused. There were no tears only bewilderments - but now the tears are building up just as I think of it.
man, I'm gonna be such a mess at work today.....
I loved the target commercials too- did anyone notice the keyboard price was $23.00?
ReplyDeleteI love the way the dad explained to Jack that there was no now. So glad I had read Slaughterhouse 5 since this made me understand immediately what he was saying. I believe the island was real. Everyone died at some point either before or after Jack. He needed them all together for himself to move on.
Thanks Nikki for a great blog.
Haven't read the comments yet but I just want to say I LOVED the finale and the ending. Although, my initial reaction to the ending was mixed. In my mind, I had a flash of the last scene in Titanic where that Jack and his Rose are walking down the steps and are greeted by the Captain and the other passengers. Once I sat for about fifteen minutes and let the significance of Christan's words sink in I was fine.
ReplyDeleteBTW: Halfway through the show, in the Baltimore, Maryland area, the HD transmission feed started to break up (right before Desmond started going in the cave to the light.)If anyone would have seen me and my wife trying to get an older TV they would have cracked up. Later, I read on another blog they had the same problem in Cleveland.
Anyway, it was a great finale. Nikki, thanks for all you've written over the years and I look forward to buying your next book.
Given how complex this journey has been over six seasons, and at its best how nuanced, it is little surprise to me that this finale elicited a range of emotions. I had done my best to temper my expectations and feel that I had actually done fairly well in that department coming into the evening. With that said, here are Some Things That Jumped Out At Me In 'The End':
ReplyDelete1) I really, really enjoyed the two-hour lead-in to the finale. I thought that they did a wonderful job of effectively recapping six seasons of some fairly esoteric material, laying out the characters and showing us key moments interspersed with commentary by the actors and showrunners.
2) I think that I could have lived without the 'Final Transmissions' from the fans - but I'm sure that many folks enjoyed them.
3) As the finale began, I literally took a [mental] breath and said, "here we go".
4) In a very general sense, I found much of the show underwhelming. There were high points and low points but I thought that the writing was thin in places and that some of the delivery of the lines came across as rather wooden. Because I love these characters, I could live with it - but my sweetheart and I found ourselves making comments out loud a lot, being taken out of the moment - something that rarely happens while watching.
5) In the sideways world, Juliet indeed turned out to be Jack's Ex. Ah, it's good to win the side bets!
6) The scenes approaching the cave and with Desmond first entering it felt overblown - I blame this on myself because this is one area where my expectations remained high - the cave was 'neat' but I felt I wanted more. Just me?
7) The NinJack Attack™ on the clifftop was AWESOME (credit to Sonshine for that one!). I, too, was surprised that Smokey's death seemed anti-climactic - although the fact that the storm immediately ceased was fairly dramatic.
8) "I believe in duct tape" - bwahahahahahaha!
9) I enjoyed the reunions and epiphanies in the sideways world, none more so than Jin & Sun with Juliet. Sawyer and Juliet was fun and the "I got you" had me all misty-eyed.
10) I greatly enjoyed the final minutes of the show. Even though I was very critical of much of what went before it (although I reserve the right to soften my criticism on second viewing) I felt that the final act was a beautiful and satisfying resolution to this episode and the show as a whole. This ending deserves its own comment later today but I have to offer props to Glenn who wrote earlier on the Buddhist concept of the Bardo. That's exactly what I was thinking of during the final moments here. The Years of Salt and Rice was an amazing book and one that deserves fuller discussion in light of the revelations we received with the resolution of the FST.
I hope that I haven't come across as more negative about the show than I intended to be. I enjoyed the ride and ultimately felt fulfilled (largely by the wonderful ending and fine performances by all in the most moving moments) but - as with some other episodes before it, the finale was uneven and it felt to me as if certain pieces of it were shoehorned into the show out of necessity. That said - I had a blast throughout the event and couldn't have asked for a better conclusion to the storylines of these characters I have loved so well for so long.
Thanks again, Nikki and all commenters here for sharing their thoughts and making the experience a richer and more satisfying one over the life of this series. Much more to say later but for now I will sit back and enjoy reading others' thoughts. Namaste.
@Shelb: AfterFlashes
ReplyDeleteYes, that is such a better word for them! I will use that from now on! :D
@Ali Bags: But why did he have a son? To help him get over his Daddy issues?
I think that's exactly why - by seeing his life through a son's lens, it helped him to understand a lot of things about himself and his dad. That's my theory anyways.
I think a lot of people we saw in the AfterFlashes weren't "real" including David, Nadia, Carmen. They were there to help whomever come to a place of acceptance. I'm not wording this very well, but I hope you get my drift.
As for purgatory - I think that's just a word being thrown around to help get a point across - they were very obvious that this wasn't going to fit neatly into any particular standing religious view - it was meant to stand within the construct of the world they created, and I believe it does. We're just left stumbling for words to describe something that doesn't and isn't supposed to be something specific, because it's meant to be more open.
VW: (haha because it was my 2nd one) Verep - when you have to repeat your verification word!
Sawyer and Juliet getting together - best reunion on the entire show.
ReplyDeleteI am still emotionally exhausted. I'll be back.
ReplyDeletepersonally, I'm not sure if I liked it or not. all the character reunions were too mushy for me, except Sawyer/Juliet which I loved.
ReplyDeleteUp until that Jack/Christian scene, it felt like the 3rd Lord of the Rings to me. it dragged on and on...
the last scene, however, was amazing. just perfect.
Have not read all yet but --
ReplyDeleteNikki said --So why were certain people missing? Eko wasn’t in the church, or Ana Lucia. Ben didn’t go in, Michael wasn’t there. No Richard Alpert. Perhaps the suggestion is that the people in the church are all going to Heaven, and those who aren’t there are doomed to go to Hell. Richard isn’t going to get the absolution he so badly wanted. Ben knows that he doesn’t belong with that group for all the things he’s done. Interesting that Sayid does get to go, though.
I thought that the church was more about those that were on the airplane -- Juliet was the only "odd" one for me -- if I remember correctly, I do need to rewatch. Ben said he still needed to work some things out. We never saw Richard in the SW. I guess they could have filled the church with characters from througout the series but I think they wanted to zero in on those that they felt were most important to each other-- and to the viewers.
All-in-all I loved it. My one slight disappointment was that Juliet was Jack's ex. Thought something more creative could have been done there.
WELL...*I* think that sideways world was DUMB!!
ReplyDeleteI mean, sure, it was nice, in that it gave us a rosy ending for all the characters we love that the real world didn't, what with everyone but Kate, Sawyer and Hurley dieing (not counting Frank, Ben and Richard) by the time it was over, and no one being "together", but...it made no sense.
I mean, I get it:it was their special world, created so they could all be together once they were all dead, before they "moved on".
O.K....but, why was it 2010 LA? Why was Sawyer a cop? Why was Juliette Jack's ex-wife? Why did Jack have a son? Why was Ben a teacher? Why were there other people there?
I'm SORRY, folks, but the way they ended the sideways world story, after all of that, REEKS of the writers having created sideways world not knowing what they were going to do with it, and then tacking on the purgatory resolution.
The island world story stands on it's own without it, having a solid beginning, middle, and end all it's own.
Also, some of the questions that they left unanswered SCREAM that they didn't know where they were going while writing the show. Why could Locke walk on the island? Why did Rose's cancer go away? Why was time so flexible on the island? Why was Jacob able to see other people's lives from the lighthouse? How did he leave the island, and get back? How did the donkey wheel work?
To me, if the light is the big thing that makes the island special, which is fine, vague a thing as the light is, then they should have explained more about what it was, especially since so many "special" things happened on the island which weren't attributed to anything else, and since the island had obvious special properties.
That is, the "light", the vague, generic, "light" was a GIANT cop out, a "one size fits 'most'" device that they meant to explain the specialness of the island, and all of it's unique properties, but really doesn't.
Mind you, I LOVE how they brought so many characters full circle, and the thing with Jack's eye, and Locke's toe. I love what they did with Ben. I love that Jack volunteered to be the protector, only to give his life for the island almost in the same breath, and pass the mantle to Hurley.
I'm FINE with them not explaining how the light got there, who the first protector was, how long people have been passing down the mantle of protector, who put the stone in the hole, who MADE the pool around the hole, etc.. I'm FINE with the show simply having been the story of our castaways, and their piece of the overall island puzzle, which simply exists.
But, WITHIN that framework, they SHOULD have answered OTHER questions that they didn't, which would be forgivable, except that it seems like the reason they didn't is that, in the end, they just didn't feel like doing the work.
And, for the record, I disagree that "when you’re looking to create Big Answers in your themes, you have to leave things open to interpretation, so that someone with a Christian background might interpret a faith-based show one way, while a Muslim would look at it a different way, and an atheist an even different way.".
There was a time, before the Sopranos, when you didn't have to.
I am sitting here with a cup of Earl Grey tea, which I always drink when I'm depressed for some reason! (it doesn't happen a lot)and I can't quite figure out why I have this lump in my throat and why I feel like having a temper tantrum.I didn't want ANYONE to be dead, but as Christian said everyone dies sometime. In my mind some of those gathered at the church lived long, full lives (Desmond esp)and came together to greet Jack at the end. I was thrilled, I mean jumping up and down happy, when Frank and Richard turned up alive, and was upset that they weren't in the church at the end, they were SO integral to the final season it seems like a huge oversight that they weren't there.The awakening moments were brilliant. Sun and Jin made me lol happy, I am not too sure about Sawyer and Juliet, I couldn't feel the chemistry with those two ever (jealous of Juliet perhaps?!) Sayid and Shannon I don't care about either way and Jack and Kate was a no-brainer from the start. Hurley and Libby and Des and Penny in the church made me a little misty eyed but unlike so many of you posting here I didn't cry once. Maybe I'm just a cold b***h but I feel somewhat depressed rather than exhilerated by the ending. Either way it's an emotion, better than being indifferent to it. I think it was right and proper that Ben wasn't in the church, he had no right to be there though I shall miss Michael Emerson's amazing portrayal of him. Still so many questions I would like answered so I'll keep reading the posts and let you superfans help me.
ReplyDeleteNikki - I so agree with your opening comment in your blog. WOW! I was in tears so much of the show that I am surprised I saw any of it. Thank you for being here. I have known you via Buffy but am glad that Redeem147 led me to this group. It has been a ride I will not forget and hope will continue even now at the end of this fantastic series. I am still in tears reading through the comments section but now it is time to respond.
ReplyDeleteI seemed to have missed the ABC Target commercials but PVR'd the show so will have to go to check those out.
I got onto the CTV chat last night, found it just a jumble of sentences flashing up the screen. One of the first comments that came up, I responded to immediately with Christian's quote: "Some have been before you, some long after you." as people did not seem to get what he had said. My chat post, of course, did not get posted.
I tried the same response to several other people's posts - again the same thing. I was so frustrated that nothing I was putting in was getting up that I just left.
I believe that this statement of Christian's is the key to the whole Sideways world. That is why I had no problems with the ending. The Sideways world fell into place perfectly once Christian said it.
First off, let me say that for those people who are now insisting that everyone on flight 815 died in the crash, you have not been listening to the news lately. People do survive and walk away from horrific disasters. The crash sent debris over a wide area and even after all this time, I am sure the survivors would continue to find it. So seeing debris does not mean that everyone was killed on impact.
Jack's "Sideways world" was a world where he was able to become the person he wanted himself to be, to "let go", using the people he had become closest to from the island or people who were important/had a huge impact on his life... like his mother (who also was not on the plane). This is why he had a son, why he was able to see himself building a positive relationship which helped to repair all the ills in his own life and allowed him to come to terms with that life he had left behind.
I loved the scene with Jack and Christian. I cried so hard. Jack redeemed himself and his relationship with his father. He got a look inside the man with whom he had battled all his life... and what he found was good. That his father did love him, wanted the best for him. He was also flawed but they found each other at last.
I was glad to see Hurley take up the mantle from Jack. Someone had mentioned waiting for Ben to take the bottle from Hurley or do something else so he could get what he always wanted - control of the island.
Watching that scene play out with Ben and Hurley, I knew that was not what Ben wanted. Ben was always dismissed his entire life. He was made to feel responsible for his mother's death. He was belittled by his father until he was given the chance to be something else. The path he chose led him to kill those in the Dharma Initiative, but especially to kill his father. Thus he became the Benjamin Linus we have come to know.
Flocke would have given him the island - a dead island under many feet of water. Someone else who did not respect him, value him and wanted to just use him or throw him away.
Hurley finally gave Ben what he needed... to be needed. To be asked to help someone. The look on Michael Emerson's face when Hurley asked him to help was so wonderful. This was his moment, his own justification for living and being able to stay on the island.
This is the Ben we see on the Sideways world - someone who cares. Cares for the students (especially Alex), for his school, and even for the unknown Mr. Locke. This is the real Ben Linus, and Hurley allows for that person to come out.
tbc...
The only characters post season one who were in the church were:
ReplyDeleteDesmond and Penny
Juliette
I have to add something about Hurley and Ben. I think we are seeing the Hurley who took over the island as protector as he said to Ben the he had been a "real good number 2" and Ben replied "And you were a great number one Hugo". Everyone in the church did come from different points in time, restored to who they had been in the beginning of the story. Who knows how long any survivor lived post island.
Sorry, add Libby with Hurley.
ReplyDeleteLoved it.
ReplyDeleteLike you Nikki, I was crying over and over again (yes, real men do cry LOL)
I understand what they were trying to do in the last 15 minutes, although it really took me aback. I think the show COULD have ended without the scene at the church. What I thought would happen was when Jack opened the casket, he would see his OWN body in there and realize he was dead all along with the others coming to his funeral (I am reminded of that Twilight Zone episode The Hitchhiker where a woman is driving across country and sees a man following her everywhere and at the end she realizes that she is dead).
I was racking my brain as to the commonalities of the people left in the church to try to figure out who was dead and who wasn't dead and when. Does this mean that the people who are NOT in the church are not dead yet? There would be no reason for Penny to be dead for example. But I guess time doesn't really matter and practically speaking, it was whomever the show could get into that scene....
I respect what the writers and producers tried to do, and I knew that Lost wouldn't end "cleanly" it will take time for me to process. Again, I think it is quite genius what they pulled off.
By the way, what did Locke in the sideways world mean when he said Jack didn't have a son? Was he talking about the island or was he never supposed to have a son or did his son never exist in the first place even in sideways world? We never got to see his son at the concert afterwards.
The montages to each character's realizations to me were a perfect tribute to the legacy of the series. I think the one that REALLY choked me up was Sawyer and Juliet...I got you...Kiss me blondie...
About Shannon, I am on the side of Nikki. I think Sayid and Nadia had a love that transcended what he and Shannon had. Maybe it was a convenience in order to have her and Boone back on the show. But I also think to suddenly bring Nadia back out of the blue would not make sense either in the context of the story.
Although I loved the fight scene with Jack and MIB, I really was sort of disappointed that he wasn't the one to finish MIB off and it was from a single bullet from Kate. I did love the scene where he flew in the air, I thought Jack would get all Neo Matrixy on MIB!
I love how the show provided so many winks to previous seasons like Nikki mentioned "Locke" and Jack looking down the waterfall like as with the hatch.
I don't know if I am satisfied with Ben's resolution. In my mind, he didn't go into the church because he realized that he doesn't belong with the group that is going into the light. But the apology to me to Locke was kind of hollow, given he had apologized to Locke a few times, most notably right before he went to turn the donkey wheel, he told Locke he is sorry for everything he has done to him. Whether he is really good or bad never became clear to me, but what seemed to be the case was that he was incredibly selfish and not one of the "good guys" as he claimed to Michael.
Perfect ending though. Jack's eye closing. Give one up for symmetry.
All in all, I give the show 9.5 out of 10. It was for me the best in the series. If the last 15 minutes was supposed to make me think, they really did a great job.
To Nikki and my fellow blogmates, thanks for allowing me to take this journey with you and enriching my Lost experience. The show wouldn't have been the same without you guys. I look forward to your replies Nikki and your book. I am hoping that one day we actually get to meet, given we are both in Toronto! I hope that you will be able to do a video blog of the episode!
tbc...
ReplyDeleteLet me get this part over with... Sayid and Shannon made sense to me and I didn't have a problem with it. They were the ones that Jack saw on the island and he saw them together - and happy. Nadia wasn't on the island even though Jack knew of her.
I agree with others that Nadia was unobtainable. Sayid found her again and, yes, they got married and started a life but fate/circumstances would not allow them to remain together for long. They were ultimately not meant to be. I also believe that is why she was with Sayid's brother in the Sideways world. Sayid would always want to protect her, and he did as much as he was able, but he would never be able to have her.
The question has come up as to why there are some people that Jack knew from the island, but not all the people at the "church"? These are the ones who died before Jack and/or after Jack as Christian said. Not everyone he knew back at the island is dead. So no Aaron and no Walt. Some people are still bound to the island. So no Michael. Some, as Desmond pointed out, are not ready to move on and "let go". So no Ana Lucia.
Even though this is Jack's view, I believe he desired one thing before he died - a wish that everyone could be with the one they loved. This manifested itself with the couplings we already knew existed, like Jin and Sun, and those we saw as being 'right for each other' like Sawyer and Juliet. Kate would be with him because he loved her as much as she loved him and now without the pull of the island on him, it could happen.
I do not believe the Sideways world to purgatory. I believe it to be a transitional place. One to wait in and of one's own making until those he loved (and I believe Jack loves these people in different ways but more like a family) and who meant everything to him were able to join him. Others will follow at their own time but the ending holds true to this group of people being a family/community having unique experiences and coming closer due to them.
'Nuff said. In tears again so will come back later for more... if able.
The bits that got me were
ReplyDelete- Charlie and Claire and Kate – I don’t actually cry easily and I had tears streaming down my face.
- I got choked up when Kate told Jack she loved him, particularly since I had just watched Through the Looking Glass, and Jack defended Sawyer (of course re: him not wanting Kate to follow him). She asked why he would defend Sawyer, and Jack said, because I love you. Both times, saying I love you meant letting the other go.
- Absolutely Jin and Sun
- Yes, Juliet and Sawyer, but by that time I had figured out what was going to happen
- with Christian. I have been waiting the entire season for this.
- Ben, Locke and Hurley. I really love Ben and his redemption path. I’m getting choked up now typing about it. I’ll be back.
Wow...okay, so here it is, the morning after the big finale, and I sit here, feeling...numb.
ReplyDeleteSo, the epic episode...wow! Never has so much happened, so fast, in one episode. Not gonna name any specifics, but the sideways scenes, where people were reunited by suddenly having memories flash through them...had me moved to tears several times throughout the show. These people that we had grown to care about so much...who got us so emotionally attached to this story...seeing them come back together and experience JOY was so wonderful. The episode SEEMED to be headed in just the way I had hoped it would...everyone would go on to lead happy, fulfilled lives in the sideways world. Everyone would get to experience "true love".
But then, the ending came...
Reading some of the comments, I'm sorry, but I'm kind of laughing at you guys! You're STILL trying to figure out..."Gee, I wonder what happens with Hurley on the island now"..."Why did Sayid end up with Shannon and not Nadia?"..."So, what was the Dharma Initiative, anyway?" Etc, etc, ad nauseum, to infinity, and beyond!
Don't you SEE??? Don't you get it?
Here's my take...at this moment in time, at least. It's how I'm feeling now...
None of these lingering questions about the plot line of the show MATTER...none of it matters!
We've been punked! Or, maybe we can coin a new term here...we've been "LOST-ed".
The producers/writers of this show created this alternative universe. They created all these characters...MADE UP this story...made the characters seem REAL to us, made us grow to care so deeply about them.
And then, in the end...guess what? It was all just a figment of our imagination. Their imagination. None of it was REAL.
It shows the power of television, the power of dramatic storytelling. Look at how people can be manipulated...how their need to find true meaning in their lives can be exploited! Here, they've gotten thousands of us to pour our emotions into this FANTASY WORLD, and now...BOOM! It's over! And the REALITY sets in...
Now we have to go on with our ACTUAL lives. We have to find TRUE meaning. We need to make good decisions about how to spend our time, which relationships to pursue, which to let go of.
Because, when you get right down to it, that's all that really matters.
That last scene, in the church? To me, it seems as if the writers are saying to us, "Okay, people, now it's time to move on. Go forth, live your lives wisely. Because that's all that really matters. This was nice, but it was all fantasy."
--------------------------------
Thanks, Lost writers, for these years of entertainment!
Thanks, Nikki, for your very enjoyable posts, and for providing this place for us all to gather and discuss!
And now, best wishes to all of you, as you continue on your journey through life! May you all find true meaning and fulfillment!
I absolutely loved it. Kind of redeemed the season for me becasue I was down on the AU.
ReplyDeleteI don't see how it could've been purgatory though. Remember dead Juliet saying to Sawyer through Miles that "it worked" which would seem to me that the bomb had a hand in creating the AU. Not being the religous I think of it more as the AU ending once the characters became self-aware that it wasn't real. I see both arguments though and like that it was left open - after all that's how the whole series has been.
Jack and Locke running at each other was so cheesy action movie. I know they were building it up as "The Final Battle" but I was laughing. Running downhill at Locke while he was on the dge of a cliff? And the leaping
superman punch". Oy.
Totally thought Ben would jump in and become Smokey v2.0.
Nikki- one comment - I believe Richard has been on a plane before. He was running all sorts of errands off-island for Ben, remember? Recruting through "Mittelos"? Can't imagine he drove everywhere. (I also think Sawyer and Juliet probably took a few vacations off-island via the sub during their 3-year Dharma stint as well)
Anyways I've loved the blog and all the comments. It's been great
-Tim Alan
I am envious of so many of you who were able to watch the finale and focus on the story instead of living through the nightmare we had in Cleveland. As someone mentioned in a previous post, Cleveland's local station had serious equipment issues, so from about 8:45 p.m. on we had to struggle to hear and see much of the broadcast as the reception "stuttered" with the picture stalling or fading at times and many lines of dialogue dropping off. After watching this show for six years and investing a lot of time reading about it on wonderful blogs like yours, Nikki, I can't even begin to explain how devastated I feel by what happend last night. The only sobbing that occured in our house resulted from extreme frustration over the broadcast experience, unfortunately. I am hoping that when my family and I rewatch it tonight on the internet, we can regain some of the emotion we lost while trying to grasp at what little we could get out of a chaotic viewing experience.
ReplyDeleteHave only read a few comments, don't have time right now but will read later... I wanted to add my 2 cents in here quickly.
ReplyDeleteI'll start right out by saying I truly loved the episode. I thought it was a perfect ending (for the most part). My husband loved everything except the sideways world being purgatory/heaven.
The main thing I didn't like was, as Nikki mentioned, Sayid being with Shannon. I think they probably did that in order to get all the original cast together, but it was unsatisfying for Sayid.
That said, I disagree with Nikki that "what the island is" was left unanswered. I'm not sure how this could be said. They've clearly stated in previous episodes that the island is a cork holding back evil. We even got to see the actual cork in this episode, and see what happens when someone (Desmond) removes it.
As I noted in an earlier thread, the popups on the Saturday night enhanced pilot episode stated clearly that the electromagnetism of the island is responsible for pretty much everything "miraculous" - the healings, the second chances, etc.
Also, I don't think Ben was somehow not allowed into the church, or not going at all. He said that he was going to stay out there "for awhile". Since he was sitting right outside, I think it gave the impression that he would be heading on in eventually, just that he wanted/needed to work some things out first... he wasn't quite "ready". But I think they were intending to imply that Ben was indeed welcome in there.
I also don't think the sideways was intended to be just for Jack, or just through Jack's eyes. Christian said they did all of this together, and each main character got at least one "centric" episode of themselves in the sideways. I think the sideways was for all of them, perhaps even for all people (not just the Losties.
I also noticed that several people were missing from the church scene, like Eko and Richard. However, I don't think they were intending to say that those people were in hell and wouldn't be going to heaven. It's possible. But I think it was more like this was the reunion for the Losties, the one they had created for themselves. Eko and Richard weren't really part of that group. Plus, people like Daniel and Eloise would seem to also be headed toward "heaven", maybe even Ana Lucia, but they just weren't "ready" yet (as Desmond said about Ana Lucia). So just because someone wasn't there with the Losties group doesn't mean they were necessarily shut out of heaven.
Finally, a few highlights:
- totally loved John Locke's comment to Jack, something like, "I expected more of a surprise, you're the obvious choice." HA! Speaking for the fans...
- when Jack told MiB he was going to kill him, and MiB said, "how are you going to do that?" Jack said, "it's a surprise" hahaha
- did anyone notice that Ben spent most of the episode with the EXACT same look on his face? Eyes wide open and just staring at people?? Every time the camera cut to him he had the same expression. LOL!
- absolutely loved all the flashbacks people had when getting their "realization". So emotional! And maybe it's the mommy in me, but Claire's "reunion" with having Aaron (again) was super special.
- Okay, I'll admit it. I'm a Jater. So I was super glad to see Jack and Kate end up together! (sort of) Kate's looking at Jack at the concert was just so sweet.
That's all for now! Will be back to read all the comments. It's been a great ride!
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ReplyDeleteIf I read "Really the only way it could end" one more time I am going to puke. I've seen that in every single review written about the finale that I have read today. All that statement means is that the writers created such an enormous mess of BS over six years that they couldn't come up with a truly satisfying or reasonable ending. There was no hope of answering any of the "questions" they created over the years because the writers obviously never knew the answers to begin with. All they could do was play with our emotions by making a sad, sappy ending; killing off and reuniting characters, and hope this would distract viewers from the show's lack of resolution. Pretty clever trick, but I think fans are being kind of lame to confuse that with a truly satisfying ending.
ReplyDeleteOK guys, I'm here now, and I'm going to pull out some of the common threads running here into separate posts so we can discuss them on their own. I just wanted to say that my comment about Jack getting the Oceanic call from Desmond was typed up AS the show was still airing, before the ending, and by the time I went to post it I didn't actually go and remove it (I will now). It was the only way I was going to get this thing posted before 4am, was to actually make notes while watching it the first time, typing madly during commercial breaks.
ReplyDeleteMore thoughts. as it's still on my mind.
ReplyDelete1. When cave-Jack seemed to land in what looked like the place MIB landed after being tossed into the cave by Jacob 2000 years ago -- and he was in a similar body position -- I half expected to see a big column of smoke come out of the cave :-)
2. A lot was probably not explained because they just seem to have left several ideas up in the air after writing interesting plot turns. Maybe they'll now fill it in more and include that in the DVD or a book.
3. The actor who played Charles Widmore said on Kimmel's show that he still doesn't know whether his
character was good or bad.
4. Re explaining the mythology more:
Myths are created by people to try to make sense of what is not understandable by them.
There are no real answers to those. They're just the tales created and passed on down. I think we just saw a modern one in Season 6.
5. Passing of power:
I liked that an incantation by modern Jack wasn't needed. The power comes, in the show, with 'belief' and 'faith' -- "You can do this!"
Loved that it was not a special cup used but an Oceanic bottle.
6. I loved it when Ben let Hurley know that a more "liberal" way of
governing or crowd/territory protection was probably just as
workable as Jabob's style.
The younger Jacob's not-very-nice self co-existed on the island with older Jacob as we saw when the ashes were snatched from Hurley.
7. Judging from what Hurley said to Ben who stayed outside the No-Now Church, their stint together went well, whatever "when" was -- might have been much later since those who'd recently died were mingling with those who died later in a space where time doesn't exist.
@Rachel I think that the reason Ben had that look was that we are seeing the Ben who had been Hurleys second after Jack passed the job on. His change has been the most up in the air but it's understandable when he says sorry to Locke.
ReplyDeleteBen: I was selfish, jealous. I wanted everything you had.
John: What did I have?
Ben: You were special, John...and I wasn't.
The real beginning of the true change happened when Hurley asked Ben to stay with him has he had experience and know how. Ben surprises when he says:
Ben: I think you do what you do best...take care of people. You can start by getting Desmond home.
Hurley: But How? People can't leave the island.
Ben: (the best realization he had come to) That's how Jacob ran things. Maybe there's another way. A better way.
Jacob is a guy with mommy issues who only knew the island life and that was 2000 years ago. People evolved and it was time for the island to change too. Hurley was the right cowardly lion for the job and Ben the perfect man behind the curtain to help him. Both characters had been the best and worst people who came together to make things right like Jacob started when he allowed himself to die. Come to think of it,Jacob may have been a man of his times but he did get the idea of progress.
I was thrilled when Sayid and Shannon wound up together, actually -- they offered each other redemption in ways that were never possible with Nadia. Shannon made it possible for Sayid to be kind, a way past his tortured/torturing past, while Sayid gave Shannon the opportunity to be more than the shallow, self-centred adolescent girl who crashed on the island.
ReplyDelete@Voices In My Head - while I, like you, had some reservations about various parts of last nights' finale I wanted to respond to some of your comments, if you don't mind:
ReplyDeleteFirst: as I said earlier, I really enjoyed the ending and felt that it was a satisfying resolution to the sideways timeline. It actually took place in 2004 L.A. - the world that all those on Oceanic 815 were on their way towards when the Island crash diverted them. As Christian explained it later, the timeline as we viewed it was a place that these LOSTies had created themselves, so that they could 'find each other' and understand why their time together on the Island was 'the most important in [their] lives'.
Each person would have created a place for themselves where they could explore their own issues and learn from them to be ready to 'move on' - whatever that expression might mean to each person, on the show and watching it. Thus, for instance, Sawyer - a man on a lifelong quest for 'justice' (as a result of what happened to him as a boy) created a place where he was a cop, still in the orbit of those who were most important to him and still working on his own issues; struggling with them until he was able to move on - with the help of the woman who had taught him what love truly means, Juliet.
Jack created a place where he had tried a relationship with Juliet but it didn't fully work, had a son and was able to try to understand what being a parent was all about - so that he could forgive his father for his mistakes in raising him and forgive himself for his own mistakes as well. Ben, who had spent much of his life resenting others, craving acceptance but ultimately manipulating others for his own selfish purposes (even if he did tell himself that he was serving the Island) created a place where he gave selflessly as a teacher to those who *surprise* often did not fully appreciate or respect him. Ultimately, he was able to understand that he HAD impacted people's lives (like Alex) and that he HAD been loved - and was just beginning to understand that he was really capable of love himself. Perhaps with Rousseau? And, as such, he was not ready to 'move on' yet but wanted to stick around and 'work on some things'.
These reasons, for me, are why I accept that this sort of resolution was where the writers/showrunners felt the story was heading all along. I don't think that this ending felt 'tacked on' or arbitrary. Not perfectly executed, to be sure, but appropriate and consistent with their goals.
As for unanswered questions in the Island timeline, well - you are not alone there. There is a broad spectrum of things we wanted to believe were essential to the story we were so invested in, to those we felt we were being told were essential and then to those things which the writers clearly implied were critical overall. Many of these things remain unresolved to the satisfaction of the fans. I think we are likely to agree on some and disagree on others - just like so many, many facets of the show through the years.
Lastly, to underscore the finale to The Sopranos as the watershed moment before which one "didn't have to" leave things open to interpretation is a bit misguided, in my opinion. I don't think anyone, LOST included, has tried to copy that ending in any meaningful way (except in parody). We could have a long and interesting discussion, I think, about ambiguous endings to books, movies and TV shows where elements were left unresolved or partially open to interpretation by readers, viewers and fans. Broader themes are often sketched in such a way as to invite participation by the audience in reaching an understanding of their meaning.
LOST reached for that here and I, for one, am very appreciative of the attempt ... and powerfully impacted by the outcome.
Thanks for the recap. I see it the same way you do.
ReplyDeleteDid anyone else notice a skeleton down in the cave with the light? Or am I just making that up? If I wasn't hallucinating, who's skeleton was that???
My only real disappointment was that Jack didn't seem to gain any particular knowledge or insight about matters after becoming the new island protector. He had this look after he drank the water...but we never did get any more island secrets. I thought the majority of outstanding mythology questions would be rapid fire answered by Jack since he should be in position to know these things. And no incantation to transfer power to Hurley? Guess that's just a formality?
Lastly, when this season started we saw the island under water...does that mean that in some permutation of things that MiB escaped? I don't really get that part of it.
After sleeping on this all... I still find myself extremely disappointed. I don't really want to start an argument, but here is my reasoning for being so disappointed...
ReplyDeleteThe episode in and of itself was a good episode in general, but after looking back, what the hell did they do for 2 1/2 hours?? Oh I know, we got the same scene over and over again. I was looking forward to getting emotional while watching, but when they played the 4th or 5th scene the same way (with flashes of people remembering what had happened) as the previous ones, I got a little bored with it. I sat with my friends thinking "could they please stop hitting us over the head with all this emotional stuff?" I wanted to be emotional, but it felt forced to me and therefore left me unable to really feel the emotions.
I also went into this episode knowing that although they would not be answering every question, I thought that we would still be getting enough info on the big questions so that the little questions wouldn't matter. Well so wrong I was! Instead of answering any questions relative to the story that they have been telling us for 6 years, they instead decide to turn this amazing show into an allegory of known faiths. "You can interpret based on your own faith. Whether it's Christian, Muslim, etc." Well I'm sorry, but I didn't invest all this time in what is an AMAZING show, so that they could turn around and make it a damn Sunday School lesson. So... because I am not at all a religious person/so because I don't have a faith to fill in the blanks for me, I've got to suffer a massive disappointment in storytelling???
To think that all this time they have been telling us "it's not heaven and hell... it's not a purgatory..." well from what I gather they didn't say that the island was purgatory, but they make the viewer invest in half of a season that basically is purgatory?? cheap!
So we have this magical island that has been around for millenia... but that isn't important! It was just there so these people could be tested?? HA! The Dharma Initiative came to the island to simply set up these plane crash survivors?? Poor suckers!
Grrr... I think I'm going to go into radio silence myself! All my friends and family that I converted into LOST lovers are now looking at me for answers and the only one I have is that "boo, they f'd it up" I don't want to admit that to myself or anyone else. :(
I have so much to say but still need to digest the finale before I jump into the fray. But I have one thing that has already kept me awake all night long last night.
ReplyDeleteIf the Island sank beneath the sea (and did it?) then what has happened to Rose and Bernard? Never mind Vincent, that magnificent dog. Where are they?
You said it, Nikki. Wow. The show ended here at 10:30 and at 11 I was still crying.
ReplyDeleteI loved when Hugo opened the door on Charlie, and just smiled.
Wonder why Rose and Bernard waited to cross over with Jack? They clearly knew what was going on well before that.
I don't get how Shannon and Sayid ended up together either. It so clearly should have been Nadia for Sayid. Shannon was never that pivotal a character.
Best journeys: Jack, of course. But also Locke. I cried so hard when I finally realized he was really and truly dead after all. And yet not.
Hugo and Ben as the island protectors? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! "Didn't see that coming."
Biggest weepie moments: Sawyer and Juliet's reunion. "It worked." Sun and Jin suddenly remembering and speaking English. Claire and Charlie meeting again. Jack's eye closing and Vincent sitting next to him and the plane being the last thing he sees. (I'm tearing up writing that and I'm supposed to be working here!)
Things I'll be thinking about for a long while: When Locke essentially killed his dad in the between-world, was that justice? If you're Keamy and you get killed AGAIN in the between-world, what happens to you? What happened to Richard? Who DID Juliet shoot in the outrigger?
I was totally sure Miles and Richard were going to get it when they took off in the outrigger.
Breathtaking scene outside the church between Ben and Locke. I still believe they were half-brothers -- and since they never said otherwise, you can't argue with me! Ha!
Thanks for the ride, LOST. More later. Supposed to be working.
P.S. Went into my daughter's room to say good night (during a commercial of course!) and asked, "What happened here?" when I saw that her room was a wreck. She looked at me and said, "The smoke monster did it!" Love it!
After some sleep (and redoing a paragraph from not enough sleep)...
ReplyDeleteWhile I would have preferred closed plot holes and, in my case, an actual parallel reality for the *What If circumstances had been different?* opportunity opened up by a universe-shaking event, I love what Darlton did over the 6-year span, with a complex set of story lines.
Since a main thing that moved most of us was about connections (with other people, with the ideas in myths, and even just with the adventure aspects), it's also about appreciation.
Some of us are giving more ttention to what worked so well that we stayed with it for 6 years, often enraptured.
Sure, I'd have preferred another ending and I felt horrible when I
heard "You don't HAVE a son, Jack."
After the island loss, it was awful to face a second one.
(I even worried momentarily it might be MIB crossing the barriers
since he had just died and John Locke of Sideways would not have
known anything about Jack's personal life. )
It gave me chills.
But that's good story-telling, even if it upset me as an ending.
Again, I was riveted and moved, over and over again last night.
They managed to make the ending )though I was not that comfortable
with it) both extremely sad and yet overpoweringly effective in a way that made many of us feel happy DURING the reunions and personalresolutions that others might call sappy.
The holes in people's lives were the focus and we saw those being closed -- there really is nothing like connections with others, while we are here. And the story they told was amazingly successful
in conveying the highs and lows of these so that we cared -- to an extent that probably surprised many of us.
That's quite an achievement for a finale, The ending was about coming to terms with loss and what Must Be and that we usually need to make peace with memories before we can move on.
I think Ben wasn't ready to go in because he had work to do, but he had already saved protector Hurly from the tree and helped him 'protect the island' so had some earned points going in. Maybe he wanted to savor the (imagined) time with Danielle and Alex more.
As for people not being there, I think this was a gathering of people who became very important to one another. Miles and Richard were probably not that important to Jack's life on the island ot to most of the other original Losties.
Hm... quick question... by comparing the end of a certain BBC show that has its finale this week to the end of Lost, have I just read major spoilers on it? I've been waiting for the second season to end before even beginning it, and now I'm starting to feel like I know how it's going to end. :(
ReplyDeleteWOW! I am completely, as someone else said, "98%" satisfied. Some questions not answered, but more on that after I have finished mourning.
ReplyDeleteIt is a dreary, drizzly day on Long Island which is perfect for reading this blog, re-watching the ENTIRE episode then back to reading this blog. THANK GOD FOR FULL TIME SCHOOL! How would a stay at home Mom getting ANYTHING done???
My absolute favorite part, and the part that made me feel that it really was over, was Jack kissing Kate goodbye! I knew from the beginning they should be together. I went back and forth between Sawyer and Jack for six seasons, but true true love prevails! All the sideways glances, the "I want to kiss him/her sooo badly right now before he/she treks into that damn jungle AGAIN!" glances, are the ones that true love is all about.
I don't feel that the purgatory aspect is a judgement day type of place, but more of a waiting room until you are ready to move on. Jack needed to finish his unfinished business with his father before he could ever be truly at peace. Christian walking into the light was purely magical! I viewed the Church gathering as one of a "we're finally all together" type of celebration rather than a cast party. I was so in the moment that I didn't even realize I was crying. (I was so mad at my self for letting the image from the finale at the carnival in "Grease" when Marty says, "the gangs all back together" in my head!)
Jimmy Kimmel was awesome for those of you who missed. You must find a way to watch. The "alternate endings" were fabulous and it really showed how creative this entire series was. One of the texted comments on the screen during the recap before the finale really hit home for me. One person wrote, "I can throw away my TV now". It's true. What else would ever come along that could rival this series? If it does not win EVERY Emmy this year, I vow to write letters to that entire voting population!
I will miss this show greatly but feel it was the perfet finale. I am very satisfied with the way it ended. Mourning the characters and their stories but knowing it was time to "make peace".
Thank you Nikki for creating a place like this to read other opinions, suggestions, theories, etc without judgment.
Loved it all!
WV: omodou- "omodou-ing nothing until I rewatch the finale!"
My one question that was not answered but realized I could be right.... was David not Jack's son but Juliet's nephew???
ReplyDeleteI thought that from the beginning and when Locke said "you don't have a son", maybe Jack was a "father figure" to David...
first off...thanks Nik for all your hard work and just an observation.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I think the internet biggest drawback is it's speed..I'm not the least surprised that suddenly there were all these "What..." posts etc etc because that was my initial reaction too. then I thought about the end and figured it out. Frankly this is the most satisfied and happy I've been with a TV show's end for a very long time. So well done.
I have no problem with Sayid and Shannon as to be blunt....as much as he loved Nadia..she was always an ideal not a real woman. Nor did Nadia share his island experiences. After all Hurley was close to his mom but she wasn't in the church either. The island was the bond, even with Penny as she'd spend time and effort searching for Desmond.
Couple of quibbles..Desmond turned the donkey wheel and got home..right...RIGHT..
and where was Malcolm...I thought I heard Carlton say he was in the final.
The other thing I really really like..what happened happened...no do over..nobody came back to life and had the "happy" life they would have had. Everyone died when they died and that remains just as it does out here in the real world.
Loved Ben sitting outside the church...not ready to enter just yet. He was always a character on the outside and remains that. But I'm glad he was able to say sorry to Locke.
Oh and to Smokey's demise...YES.
I know there are some who thought he ought to get some kind of redemption but you know...I'm glad the show demonstrated that ..you know what..you kill a lovely young couple in a sub and cause all that heartbreak...no redemption for you there buddy boy..and good shot Kate.
best show ever...
@redeem147 - Nadia would have been out of place - she was never on the Island. Sayid had his life with her, but Shannon was an unresolved relationship. And I do believe he loved her.
ReplyDeleteThis. Sayid/Shannon was lovely, and you've articulated why. I was also taken with Boone, and I didn't care for him on island. He was cheeky and playful here and so effective in the small moment we saw him.
Frank had a Han Solo vibe going on in the cockpit. Throwing the walkie aside - "Never tell me the odds." I was thrilled to see him. Duct tape - fabulous. You go, Helicopter Man. (BTW, if the producers of True Blood haven't cast Calvin Norris yet, I nominate Jeff Fahey.)
Richard's grey hair. And suddenly wanting to live. Awesome.
Kate's redemption and her choice. She made the correct one. Sawyer and Juliet. Epic.
Eleanor's redemption - sorta. She didn't want to let go of her son.
Ben not being ready to move on. I saw a suggestion elsewhere that Ben might be waiting for Alex and Danielle to have their moments of recognition. I really like that thought. (Ooops, typed this before I read another comment from redeem147).
Hurley, in the end, was the one who was needed to carry on. I'll bet he was a fantastic protector. In the end, he, and not Jack or Desmond, was Stuart Redmond. (I guess that makes Ben Frannie.)
@Rufus - Bernard was there as well. I think those characters who were not from Season 1 were there because they were so important to other characters who were: Rose and Bernard, Hurley and Libby, Sawyer and Juliet. The exception is Desmond and Penny, but then, Desmond is an exception to everything.
I think those who are expressing less than positive reactions have valid points. There were many things left unanswered, not all of which can be shunted aside as trivial. Walt is the biggest dangling thread, and, hey, I still want to know about that pallet drop. In a week or so, when the afterglow wears off, folks will probably start debating what got swept aside, whether those things were sacrificed to overindulgent, lengthy, and unnecessary exposition about the Temple or Dharma, etc.
It was a sweet, sweet ride.
VW: dionions - What I didn't need last night to evoke tears.
Posting what I have if/when cable comes back up.
ReplyDeleteThe first thing I'm going to say has nothing to do with the show, but everything to do with my initial impression of the show. We had lousy TV here. Somewhere in between ABC and Time Warner Cable somebody fell down on the worst night of the year to do so. (I'd bet a good deal of money that there is hell to pay for that today!) We have already been promised a repeat performance this Saturday. So we watched the Lost Finale while the channel bounced all over the room.
Equally disturbing to the whole family: When I get a chance to read the comments and finish reading Nikki's post, I will be looking to see if other people complain about not only the number of commercials, but the placement of them as well. As a result of both of these complaints, Spouse, Child and I all hated this episode. Just hated it totally. It was so broken - as flawed as the people the show was talking about.
During Jimmy Kimmel the cable finally went out totally. It was out continually until almost 5:00 this morning, and has been up and down all morning. There have been intermittent minutes (seconds) when it would pop back up, which gave me a chance to post some things elsewhere on Nik at Nite that I hadn't gotten posted yet, and to start reading Nikki's post. I started typing this without reading any comments or finishing Nikki's post because there was no cable with which to read them. But the cable went out and stayed out for so long, that I did a rewatch.
OMG!! Night and day! (Black and white? Good and evil?) I couldn't believe what we had missed because the show was just all screwed up for us. I told Spouse before he left for work that if you can see past the picture jumping around, and fastforward through the commercials, the show is incredible! He thinks I'm crazy, but I know he will understand what I meant when he sees it, as will Child.
Few things actually surprised me:
I had a Candidate, and I stuck to him. And I justified it. And there were, and still are, reasons. Some pretty compelling reasons. But one of them was that I knew it wasn't going to be Jack, and I didn't want it to be Hurley! On the rewatch I did the one thing I didn't do during the watch: I cried like a newborn baby. Just wailed. For all of them, yes, but OMG for Hurley! I SO did NOT want him to be the one. Learning that it was Hurley, and now knowing that he is not only off the island, but also amonst the deceased left me wondering, of course, who was watching the island now. One of our wishes for the ending was that the door to the show be left just slightly ajar so that someone someday could pick the story back up again. I feel that they've done that by telling us that Hurley is no longer there, but obviously somebody must be.
I knew, as all of you knew, that for some amount of time Jack was going to be the leader of the island. I also thought that if he became leader before the others were killed or left (which we already knew he did), I felt positive that Kate would stay behind with him, and I was flabbergasted when she didn't. After the Jin thing with his not leaving Sun? I could not have foreseen, in any way, that Kate would have left the island again without Jack.
Before I forget I wanted to say that I saw this this morning on Lindelof's page: "Remember. Let go. Move on. I will miss it more than I can ever say."
Will continue if the cable stays up.
I was very moved by this finale. I have no problem or complaints at all with the way that Darlton ended things simply because, well…it's the way the did it.
ReplyDeleteWhatever happened, happened.
I am always a fan of open endings, that can be discussed and debated, so I am looking forward to doing this with some friends and coworkers, who I know will not accept this open ending. I have also been known to always be tickled by endings where the bad guy wins, but I know when Locke had Jack's throat under his knife, I was screaming, "NO! Don't you dare, Darlton!" LOL
I loved the Hurley and Ben exchange at the end. It makes me believe that Ben and Hurley lived some amazing years on the island, and that many great and wonderful things happened to them there. Also, Hurley being made candidate by Jack made me laugh a little. I wanted Jack to say to Locke: "There's a not-so-obvious game-changer for ya!"
One thing that made me sad about the ending: Charlie wasn't alive again after all:( Damn.
I agree with Nikki about the Sayid/Shannon arc. Since we have to assume that Nadia is in heaven already, since her death, and that Sayid and Shannon are headed there, then I think Sayid might have some awkward explaining to do. Or, perhaps, since it's heaven, the three of them will live happily ever after? Haha.
I have spent a lot of time on this blog talkin' smack about Jacob—saying that he's bad. While it doesn't appear that I was totally right, I'd like to point out that he did create the smoke monster. Not his smoothest move. LOL. Though I do concede—Smokie = far worse.
Lastly, although the show is over, the discussions have just begun. I'll miss it, but it ended at just the right time, on just the right note:)
@SonshineMusic: So is Richard just going to age normally now? Or rapidly? And where is he gonna go OFF the Island?
ReplyDeleteI presume he's going to age normally now. And he's been off the island before (he recruited Juliet) so the "modern world" shouldn't be too crazy a concept for him.
SO excited to see her and VERY happy about her and Sayid, even if I am in the minority.
Nah, I'm with you. While the Sayid/Shannon relationship never did much for me, emotionally, the Sayid/Nadia one didn't either. So having his 815 love wake him up at least made sense to me (inasmuch as sense can be found in the Sideways verse).
Was that the volcano?
I'll be damned if they weren't right about that volcano coming into play.
@Scrvet: So was the whole SW in purgatory?
Purgatory-ish, yeah.
Does that mean Desmond and everyone he contacts are already dead?
Yes.
Is Jack's son dead
Jack never had a son; I think he's just a construct of the Sideways universe, created by Jack to help him work through his father issues.
Does Eloise not want Daniel to go to Heaven yet?
It appears she does not.
Jack told Locke he was going to pick up his son. Locke says you don't have a son. Did Jack marry Juliet and have a son, then get divorced all in Purgatory? Or did that never happen.
Yep. The whole married/divorce/kid thing was Jack helping himself get ready to move on.
When Sawyer called Miles Enos did he realize he had called him that in Dharmaville?
Presumably, that was more of his "real" life bleeding through.
@Lyla: Team Darlton teased that Walt would make an appearance in the finale during their live chat from NYC on Thursday. What gives!?!
Seriously, that ticks me off more than anything. Not that I care whether Walt showed up or not, but how, three days from the finale, can they not know what is or isn't in the finale? Why dick around with us like that?
@Blam: in short I thought the episode was a phenomenal piece of work that wrapped up this season tremendously and, from a character standpoint, the series as well with much more closure, tears, and joy than I expected. Sadly there was even less attention paid to lingering questions from the narrative meat of the previous five seasons than I expected as well.
Once again, Blam, we find ourselves on the same page. I found the finale to be emotionally satisfying, while the island events adequately and excitingly wrapped the season's plot. The overarching narrative of the show, however, the story the show has been telling since the beginning, got very short shrift and is as frustratingly unresolved and dangling as it was before the finale. But I went into the finale expecting as much, as thus, with tempered expectations, enjoyed what was there.
I don't get why people found the explanation we got of the "flafterlife" pregnant with more mystery. On this score I'm not left wanting more at all
Me neither. That's one part of the story I don't mind being open to some interpretation, and what is there, seems pretty straightforward.
@Andrys: And then I got the fear that MIB, who had just died as a mortal, was waking up in John Locke's body
I was thinking that as well. And I think the creators wanted us thinking that for a moment.
@Fred: Sentimentally it works, but does it work in terms of the logic of the narrative--in terms of the mythology? I'm a little bit dubious on that. So does this ending undercut the whole mythology of the island? I think it does.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I agree that the flash sideways resolution undercuts the mythology of the island. It certainly doesn't add to it, and the finale, as a whole, did little to resolve the show's arc (as opposed to the season arc) as we feared would be the case.
So while it didn't add anything to the plot, I don't think the flash sideways resolution took anything away from it, either. It was simply a means to give emotional character resolution.
@Anonymous: So what was the significance of the numbers?
They are the factors of the Valenzetti Equation, which can be used to determine the end of the world, which Dharma was trying to manipulate into changing.
They also corresponded to Jacob's final six replacement candidates.
@another Anonymous: Where did Eloise Hawking get all of her special information about the island? What did she know about Desmond and the future of the island that caused her to get involved in Desmond's life?
A combination of her time as leader of the Others, and her son's journal.
@Alex: After today I realised it’s all a Transformers tribute
When Jack was heading back into the cave, my buddy and I wondered if he was going to open the Matrix of Leadership and light their darkest hour.
@Hutch: had a flash of the last scene in Titanic where that Jack and his Rose are walking down the steps and are greeted by the Captain and the other passengers.
Ha! My party mentioned that as well.
@jva: Pretty clever trick, but I think fans are being kind of lame to confuse that with a truly satisfying ending.
As I said above, I found the ending to be emotionally satisfying and a decent wrapup to the season long plot (replace Jacob, stop FLocke) while it fell short in providing an adequate plot (non character, nonemotional) resolution to the show as a whole.
As the majority of the season (and certainly since Across the Sea) had made it clear the creators had little interest in suitably resolving the show's overarching plot, I went into the finale expecting little in that regards, and was able to enjoy what was presented more fully.
Your mileage may vary.
Again, I was SOOOO satisfied with the ending, I didn't want to read or watch anything about the finale last night. I went to bed and slept like I haven't slept in a long time.
ReplyDeleteI loved the episode and am glad that I GOT IT. I did have to explain it to my 10 year old daughter a few times again this morning, however, but she loved it too.
There is no way I can expound on this episode or the series as a whole any better or more thoughtfully than any of you. This blog is a triumph.
Some key points for me: In the end, Ben and Hurley were the heart and soul of the island. One always having always had the qualities needed to help others, and the other needing to find his way after a life filled with challenges and disappointments. One loved humankind, and the other loved the island. You can't get much better than that.
I love how Jack was the last one of the island LOSTIES to realize what had happened in the SW. It always took Jack a while to get on board with things. A few times along the way he started to see but stopped himself. He wasn't ready yet. When he WAS ready, it was poignant and very true to the series.
I must admit I really didn't see this ending coming AT ALL. That is a true credit to the writers. I even was starting to get annoyed at how hokey it was all going. When Jin and Sun started speaking in English, I was like: "This is really stupid." But then it kept rolling along and I kept wondering why everyone was so slap-happy and where in the heck were they all going to go? Are they going BACK to the island? Again??? Seriously. These were the thoughts running through my head all the way up until the Christian reveal. I loved the dialogue between Kate and Desmond in the car at the church when she asked who was in the coffin, and he said "Someone named Christian Shephard." "Christian Shephard...is that name for real?" LOL. He certainly was Jack's shephard.
I was so sad that Jack died alone....but at least he got to see Ajira 316 make it out of there. So satisfying.
It's a little like "The Five People you Meet in Heaven" by Mitch Albom. You meet those significant others from your life and they help you adjust to the afterlife. The difference being that Jack and the others were not truly aware they were dead at first. They all came to it on their own (with a lot of help from Des and later Hurley).
Now that I know what happened, Hurley's demeanor throughout all of the Sidways made the most sense. He had become a true protector/leader/guidance counselor during his tenure as the new JACKob with Ben along as his sidekick, and it showed.
Bravo to Damon and Carlton. And for all of you who still need answers, many of them were handed to us on a silver platter a while ago, but we didn't believe it. Island pregnancies: the incident.
Hurley bird: nothing
the numbers: Another one of Jacob's manipulations to gather people to the island. Also just a fun ongoing theme for the writers.
DHARMA: one of many groups who came to the island to manipulate it's qualities/anomalies.
Who built the Lampost?: who knows? Who built the lamp post in Narnia? It's a STORY. Enjoy it!!
What is the island? It is a place on earth with healing powers, and other magical properties, explained to us as EM. It embodies the spirit and nature of man...both good and evil.
How did Smokey die so easily in the end? It wasn't easy. But once Des moved the "cork", Smokey was corporeal again. Just a man. BOOM: LOST
vw: squal: the storm to end all storms on LOST
@latelylost You are very right about Bernard. I wasn't sure if to call him a season two character because he was that guy in the bathroom in season one...;)
ReplyDelete@Gracie I think Hurley needed to become the protector as he doubted himsself so much. Ben was so right when he said there could be another way to run the island than the rules made up from a guy 2000 years ago. Hurley is the postmodern Jacob/island protector and a protector who thinks first about taking care of people, which shows the evolution from ritual and rules to compassion as evidenced in his talk with Sayid.
I haven't read everything yet but just wanted to add my feeling of satisfaction. I absolutely LOVED the whole thing! The questions that seemed so important to be answered but weren't don't seem as important to me now. Yes, I have some nagging little things that are confusing me but I can live with them.
ReplyDeleteI am a very emotional person (just like my baby sis, Nikki!) who cries at long-distance telephone commercials so I was just a weeping mess. I spent most of the last hour weeping uncontrollably but with a huge grin on my face at the same time. If anyone had walked in, they would have thought I was having some sort of a breakdown!
One thing that I disagree with you on, Nikki, is Sayid and Shannon. While Nadia was his soulmate, she was not obtainable to him. Shannon was the one who made him move on and they needed to be together at the end.
cont..
ReplyDelete@Matt: Did anyone else notice a skeleton down in the cave with the light? Or am I just making that up? If I wasn't hallucinating, who's skeleton was that???
There were a couple, actually. Presumably, they are other people who died in that cave, seeking the light. Maybe even the ancient people who built it. More island mysteries...
Marglit: If the Island sank beneath the sea (and did it?) then what has happened to Rose and Bernard? Never mind Vincent, that magnificent dog. Where are they?
The island only sank in the purgatorial gestalt created by the characters. In the real world, Jack kept the island from sinking, and presumably, Rose, Bernard and Vincent lived out their days on it.
@Lisa(until further notice): Who built the lamp post in Narnia?
Just a minor quibble, but the lamp post in Narnia was transported there from London the first time humans came to Narnia, as detailed in "The Magician's Nephew". Not sure who built it, I suppose, but we do know how it got there. ;)
I think that that was probably the best ending for Lost!
ReplyDeleteIm going to have to disagree with you Nikki though with the whole Sayid/Shannon thing at the end.
In a sence they WERE meant to be together.
They liked/loved eachother for who they were and neither of them truely knew anything of the eachothers past to make a grude with.
Sayid could never truely be happy with Nadia because of everything that he put her through, he would always have that feeling of 'I can't believe what I did to you'. Which I dont know about you or anyone else but that would drive me nuts, feeling that sadness everytime you looked at the person you are with. So yeah I LOVED that it was Shannon.
Also I loved how the whole flash sideways was Jack's pergitory, this whole season I've been going crazy thinking theres no way the Island is underwater!! It only makes sense that it was someones pergitory and I love how it ended up being Jack's!
I can't wait to rewatch and reread your books on Lost!
Oh and one little thing did anyone else notice how Vincent was a new dog? hahaha
Cheers!
Who was really in the Sideways world?
ReplyDeleteSo I slept (fitfully--I'll admit, Lost disturbed my sleep) on it, and I'll say that I'm still troubled by a number of things.
But I wanted to address something that occurred to me in an earlier comment.
@Deb: You say that you believe that Sayid belonged with Shannon because in the Sideways world that everyone created, Nadia was with his brother, meaning that even he felt that they didn't belong together.
If we go a step further, I believe that the implication of this is that some "players" in the Sideways-verse--even players that we had seen before in Island timeline, such as Nadia--were not really the souls of these people in the way station or holding cell before the afterlife. Obviously we already knew that David Shepard was a creation of Jack's mind, because we'd never seen him before and we got Locke's "You don't have a son."
But if we're to believe that Sayid "placed" Nadia with his brother because he subconsciously knew they didn't belong together... then we also have to believe that some other familiar faces weren't present in the Church because their souls weren't really in Sideways-verse. These people were then constructs created by those who ended up in the Church.
If that's true, then who else is a "soul" in the way station, and who is a "construct" created by the minds of our Lostaways? I think we know that Daniel and Charlotte are souls who weren't ready to move on yet. But what about Miles? Did Sawyer just place him there because they were BFFs in Dharmaville? Or was he not ready to move on, preferring to travel with the group of Freighter folks, when Daniel and Charlotte go on? And perhaps he was still tied to the way station because his father, Pierre Chang, was still there?
Obviously, as I said last night, the biggest thing that's going to bug me is why certain people were in that Church, and others weren't. I really don't think there's a good argument to be made that Miles wasn't in the Church because he wasn't important to the 815ers--he bonded really closely with several of them. So that leaves open, in my mind, two possibilities--(1) he wasn't ready to move on, or (2) Sideways-verse Miles was a construct created by Sawyer because he needed a buddy cop.
Does that make sense to anyone?
@Loretta: So that leaves open, in my mind, two possibilities--(1) he wasn't ready to move on, or (2) Sideways-verse Miles was a construct created by Sawyer because he needed a buddy cop.
ReplyDeleteDoes that make sense to anyone?
For me, I'm looking at like this: main characters in the sideways verse that weren't in the church aren't ready to move on yet (Ana Lucia, Miles, Daniel) or stuck somewhere else (Michael, who is still on the island).
Minor characters? I'm not sure if they're constructs or souls not ready to move on. It makes sense that Nadia would be just a construct of that world, but I kinda like the idea of Anthony Cooper's soul being stuck as a vegetable for all eternity...
Here's a thought: when Eko died, and we saw him and his brother together, was that the first glimpse of the Sideways world? Did Eko go to a place where he could be with his brother before moving on?
@Teebore: Thanks for your "minor quibble." I need those every now and again. Read the series a while ago and my brain "lost" that part.
ReplyDelete@myself: And where is [Richard] gonna go OFF the Island?
ReplyDeleteHaha! I JUST passed a van at the end of my road and I SWEAR Richard was driving it! So, if anyone's wondering, he's in upstate New York... Man, I missed the license plate...
Hm... quick question... by comparing the end of a certain BBC show that has its finale this week to the end of Lost, have I just read major spoilers on it? I've been waiting for the second season to end before even beginning it, and now I'm starting to feel like I know how it's going to end. :(
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry. I think that's my fault. I didn't remember you ever mentioning watching it. I feel like crap. :(
@Loretta I think Christian spoke to your question of why certain people may not have been there.
ReplyDeleteChristian: Well, this is the place that you all made together so that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time that you spent with these people. That's why all of you are here...you needed them and they needed you.
Jack: For what?
Christian: To remember-and to let go.
I think that some of the others who weren't there had other people who were the most important in their lives.
@Teebore: hen Eko died, and we saw him and his brother together, was that the first glimpse of the Sideways world? Did Eko go to a place where he could be with his brother before moving on?
ReplyDeleteYes, yes yes! I like this!
Just popping in to say - there was a LOT of mirroring with Through the looking glass and (less so) There is no place like home. Check it out.
ReplyDelete(continued from previous post)
ReplyDeleteDid anybody else pick up on how quickly after FLocke died they cut over to Locke wakening from surgery? I had a very bad moment there where I thought we were going to go in a direction I'd never thought about before. Maybe it was just me, but I had a really bad feeling we weren't quite done with FLocke. OMG!
Juliet did not surprise me, although I was never 100% certain that she was the ex-wife. I wondered if they were going to be able to get her away from her new show, but I figured somehow they had to finalize that "cup of coffee" and going "dutch" discussion with Sawyer.
I had hoped beyond hope that we were going to see Lapidus again, but I gave up on that at the beginning of the last episode when everyone was standing at the beach looking at all the submarine stuff wash ashore, and we didn't see Lapidus then. Then, there he was!! Surprise!
I'm not sure what to make of Ben, and I don't have your comments to guide me. Ben started out as a horrible, horrible person. What he did to Juliet alone was awful. Everything he did "in service to the island" was done as a horrible excuse for a human being. But I felt towards the end that Ben was working for redemption, and I began to hope that he'd find it. I wonder if you guys think he didn't go into the church because he wasn't ready (had a couple of things to work on), or if you think he couldn't go because somebody (or God?) had deemed him unworthy? During the rewatch, I felt good for Ben and cried even harder when he told Hurley that he'd be "honored" to help Hurley. That was sort of life affirming for me to see that he'd finally seen the light of day. I'm kind of hoping that you think Ben had redeemed himself in some way. In the end, and for some time before that, he was working on the side of the Good Guys. And he stayed to help guide Hurley for a little while at least. When Locke said goodbye to Ben at the church I lost it! That scene when he says goodbye took me back to Henry Gale, the hatch, and the beginning of that whole hate-filled relationship. THAT was where I really, really knew the show, Lost, was over, and it was like a kick to the gut.
The first time I saw it, Shannon surprised me, and I thought she should be Nadia. Then the second time I saw it, I knew it had to be Shannon because she was who Jack knew that Sayid had loved from the island. (He had met Nadia when the Oceanic Six had come back, but that wasn't the person that he KNEW Sayid had loved, and it was Jack's story.)
I unfortunately, knew Desmond would be there, but I was not in any way prepared for Penny! That one just hurt like all hell.
Why did the Losties and the island jump through time? Why did some of the Losties not jump?
ReplyDeleteAt first I hated the ending... then the more I thought about it, and read Nik at Nite for insight, it truly was a spirtual and emotional show. Thanks Nikki for letting me "eavesdrop" on your blog with your friends, and tap in every once in a while. I loved the whole buddhist analogy one of your bloggers wrote.
ReplyDeleteIt may sound petty, however, why was Kate wearing something different inside the church? did anyone question that? I honestly will not be able to talk about LOST with anyone for at least a week w/o crying. thanks again, Nikki
I'm wondering how the ratings were last night. My husband, who had never shown any interest in the show before (besides buying me the seasons for Christmas) watched the documentary and the finale. "Why didn't anyone tell me it was a good show?"
ReplyDeleteWhere has he been the last six years? *sigh*
Minor random thing - I liked how Charlotte and Faraday connected but didn't have recognition flashbacks. They had never officially gotten together in the island reality, so it's great that they get time together in the sideways universe before they move on.
ReplyDelete@Teebore: Here's a thought: when Eko died, and we saw him and his brother together, was that the first glimpse of the Sideways world? Did Eko go to a place where he could be with his brother before moving on?
ReplyDeleteI had that same exact thought this morning. Eko's "person"--his strongest connection--was clearly Yemi, and that scene when they were both still kids always struck me as having a very dream-like quality. And looking at it that way would really satisfy me on the Eko front.
I guess I'd just be surprised that Miles' on-island time wasn't the most important of his life, given that he was born there and returned as an adult. (And I'm stuck on the Miles example because his case just seems the starkest, though similar arguments could be made for others missing from the Church.)
So I guess I just want to stick with the "not ready yet" reasoning, because it just somehow seems to sad to me that Miles and his buddy LaFleur wouldn't be reunited in some way after they've "moved on."
It's 8:30 a.m. and I have barely slept all night. I feel like I've been hit by a truck! The finale was so huge, so epic, so emotional (oh. my. god. how I cried!), I couldn't stop thinking about it all night. I loved it. I still have questions (it wouldn't be LOST if I didn't, right?) but I feel satisfied. I ache all over and my head feels like it might explode, but mostly I'm happy. And looking forward to discussing some more. Not ready to say good-bye, that's for sure!
ReplyDelete@Jessica - I totally agree with you. Everyone on the Lost forums has spent 6 years pondering questions raised in the show, like time travel, talking with the dead, 6 numbers that keep popping up in everyone's lives and (during the last season), the Candidates' correspondence to those numbers, the 'rules' between Ben and Widmore, etc., and last night we got ... nothing for all of those questions. Not even the big ones. Apparently all of those questions were just filler, and a way to keep Lost fans speculating about the show. I think that's called a 'bait and switch.'
ReplyDelete(cont. from previous post)
ReplyDeleteThings that did surprise me were more along an emotional line, although the first one off the top of my head was a violent shocker, Kate actually killing FLocke! Didn't see that one coming. All of her anger, frustration, and desperation and FINALLY Katie gets to aim it in the right direction! I loved that. I could (and did!) picture any number of people being the one to actually kill FLocke/Locke, but for some reason I never saw Kate as the one who got to do it. THAT for me was perfection! While I'm on the subject of Kate, as I said, it surprised me that she actually left Jack, but to see her with no hesitation (or very little) jumping off the edge of that cliff ahead of Sawyer! WOW!! No fear left there.
Why was Aaron there? If that baby was NOT Aaron, who was Claire holding at the church?
Again we were given the line: "Nothing is irreversible." I had heard that line so many times, and made note of it so often, that I wondered at one point if this whole story was going to be reversible. I almost had myself convinced during the first watch that this was how it was going to end.
I would have loved some kind of line of division between good and evil among some. Obviously, I would think we have to agree that Eloise is dead? Why wasn't she there at the church? Are we to assume anything by that, like she wasn't good? She wasn't welcome? That she wasn't one of Jack's people, even though she had helped him get the bomb from under New Otherton? (Confession: When she asked Desmond about Daniel, with her "oh so sad" face, I said out loud, "Bi*ch!") Is it a given why Widmore wasn't there? I will hold onto my belief until the day I die that Richard wasn't at the church because Richard is ENJOYING a long, old age, hopefully in a happier part of his life, maybe with a new woman that he loves. I believe the same thing for Frank and Miles. One day they will catch up with the others.
Emotionally, the hardest times for me were the "couplings". Sun and Jin first remembering was very hard. Shannon and Sayid. Charlie and Claire just about floored me with Aaron there with them too. (It seemed like Charlie's memories were more poignant than others, but that could have just been me. Sawyer and Juliet. The look that Daniel gives Charlotte. The look Penny gives Desmond. Ouch!)
Then the one reunion or "coupling" that I never saw coming quite the way it did, and I swear, watching it the second time, I think it might have been emotionally the worst. And that was Jack and Christian. O.M.G.!! The son, who had always felt unworthy being welcomed by the man who he felt had made him feel that way, and being welcomed in such a way that left no doubt that Christian always had felt Jack worthy, but was so inept at telling him so. Yes, I think that was the hardest one. The Son. The Father.
And I'm going to post this now if it will let me, and do some reading if the cable is going to stay up.
Nikki, first I wanted to thank you for been there for us all this time. It was a great pleasure to have share the LOST experience with you, and all the other guys commenting on this blog of course. You created and led this community gracefully and always funny and moving. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteNow, I don´t know if my approach is "atheistic" or not (and I apologized if somebody else already pitched this theory) but for me Sideways world happened exclusively in Jack´s head. I think that instead of flashing his life before his eyes, what flashed were his wishes and desires. The idealistic sideways reality, and I think this utopic place began to "percolate" when he found himself condenmed to die. After the second stab of flocke (the cut in the neck) and the sound of plane signaling the movement between realities is the sound of the plane leaving the island at the very end of the episode 18.
Why does it get to be such an intricated and detailed world in such a "little" time well I don't think that this perfect world of Jack happens to be conceived just on that instant I think that jack had those hopes since always, I think Jack always wanted the very best for his people and the alternate reality is just a compendium of all the things Jack thought were best for them, of all the things he hoped would happened coming back to the island and finally detonating the bomb.
Yes, Desmond referred to the alternate reality as factual thing but then again Desmond sees these universes of past, present and future but I think they are only permutations or even empathic projections.
Alternate world is really "Jack customized", there are only the closest friends of Jack (no michael, no walt, no ana lucía, no Mr Eko, etc) Even Ben is forgiven by Jack but not quite since he won't allow him to enter the church.
I don't think we are given a lesson on heaven-hell-afterlife at the end of Lost, but the views of our hero. Sideways world is the (im)perfect world imagined by Jack, I think that for it to be anykind of afterlife (purgatory or not) it should not be so customized to one person. I insist, sideways world is a look inside Jack.
it was a great ride, Nikki! Happy to have shared it with you and all your followers :D
In the end of the little films The Big Night and Babette's Feast, both full of food and the commotion of "a major event", tranquil meditation over a simpler meal in the kitchen affords the lead characters the opportunity to place the evening's happenings into the broader context of their character arcs and relationships, wherein the audience finally and simultaneously understands the movies' themes. In the MilesStraum of last night, no such moment was granted, and in the real world of Mondays and Starbucks, that moment of ideal reflection is rare and slipping through my fingers like sacramental wine, holy water, or plain old puddle muck.
ReplyDeleteLost forced us early on to suspend judgement when Walt, Locke, and Rose's specialness was demonstrated, a Polar Bear was killed on a tropical island by a conman with a borrowed badge and pistol, and an empty coffin suggested that dead dad walking might truly be more than a simple hallucination. It also demanded that we embrace manipulative narrative structure when we were lied to about the lack of association between Bad Twin's Gary Troup and Purgatory. As committed masochists, we laughed knowingly at the deep truth of Darlton's claim that the Disney Lost Ride would involve being locked into a dark room, spun around into disorientation, and pummeled by The Others.
Accordingly, I suspect we all entered the last stage of this journey ready to embrace the absurd, bend to manipulation, and yield to the onslaught of brutal cognitive displacement. As in the beginning, so in the end: our duty and only reasonable expectation.
...But then something happened and demands were set and the ante upped for answers, not more questions, for concrete narrative closure rather than an open loop. The movie theater audience rioted, the ranks broke file, the faithful doubted. The viewership admitted they were merely human.
ReplyDeleteI admit to having formed definitive predictions for the way this would end. I will stand by, even this morning, that a redeemed Locke was supposed to win back Helen, to miraculously walk in whatever the "real world" means with faith and science finally fused in the form of stem cell spinal surgery in the healing hands of both Jack and a higher power. The narrative underpinnings were meticulously in place, but I suspect the political or studio will was not conducive to daring such controversial waters. My own private Idaho, now. It has not ended the way it should have, my way.
And that's OK. I racked up a few prescient points. Kate ran silent below evil incarnate's arrogant radar and smote him. Hurley was the community glue and transcended to higher understanding, beyond good luck lottery and bad luck numbers: the van of peace and love did in fact hold more the decrepit daddy issues and stale beer, presaging the role of Hurley in breaking down the isolating effects of Charlie's suicidal ideation, Sawyer's antisocial behaviors, and Jin's marital and linguistic barriers. I got a few others right. And I got a few wrong.
But right or wrong, I've endured. I've been cognitively sharpened and spiritually softened by the journey. I can glimpse Richard Bach, C. S. Lewis, Madeleine L'Engle, Aldous Huxley, Charles Dickens, Salman Rushdie, and a fine host of others applauding just behind the curtains in the wings of the stage. After, but not before this journey, I can see the threads of Ram Dass and the Bardo Thodol, the golden fiber of Sufi mysticism and Richard Burton, and the silver silkof Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and the noosphere, that are woven into the familiar fabric of abrahamic religion and egyptian, greek, norse, and celtic mythology in which I am clothed.
I will rejoin the discussion when I am able, higher up and farther in. I remain dubious about the cinematic value of so many swelling strings tracked over so many overexposed moments of enlightenment. I will have to watch again, indoors and alone, before I am satisfied with the accuracy of my objective assessment of the episode's merits. But the ending clicks. An aviator formally studying physics and spirituality was once told:
"If our friendship depends on things like space and time, then when we finally overcome space and time, we've destroyed our own brotherhood! But overcome space, and all we have left is Here. Overcome time, and all we have left is Now. And in the middle of Here and Now, don't you think that we might see each other once or twice?"
That strikes a familiar chord from last night and strikes me as a good beginning.
To EVERYBODY: I wanted to say, and I think I forgot:
ReplyDeleteIf I've gotten anything wrong, especially if I'm completely wrong, you guys know that I depend on you to straighten me out, right?
After all this time I've been able to count on you people, don't let me down now, please.
Meanwhile, I hope to be reading.
I'm sure others have left these questions but can't scroll thru them all -
ReplyDelete1. Can anyone analyze what Desmond meant when he and Jack where talking - before and after Desmond removed the rock in the light well. Desmond first was saying it doesn't all matter, he's going to another place, etc. And then after he's confused as to why it didn't work. How does this fit in with the bigger picture of Jack's purgatory/crossing over?
2. Did Jack really have a son? Or was that something he "invented" in his afterlife to help him reach his crossing over moment? One of his regrets, maybe, that he never had children in his real life? Locke seemed pretty convincing when he said, "you don't have a son, Jack."
Overall, I loved the finale, my favorite scene being Sawyer/Juliet reunion.
Thanks for all the analysis!!
I remembered one thing about Claire. I never gave up on her and part of it came from the fact that Dogan refered to her as a confused girl. Hanging around with the MIB for a few years would do it to anyone. I was glad Kate came back to help her and happy to see that Claire wasn't hard to convince.
ReplyDeleteI want to watch the episode again SO badly, but know when I do I will be an absolute emotional wreck, so *sigh* since work comes in a short time I will hold back and try to figure out WHEN I can go back. Because it is true... We have to go back! and We're gonna have to watch that again.
ReplyDeleteVW: inhar - not out thar, but inhar
Very well said, TM - and we would expect no less. I was particularly pleased to see you quote the passage from Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach! I used that exact passage (in paraphrase) to describe my sentiments on the meaning of the finale to several folks last night and this morning. Thanks for breaking it out for all. Kudos, sir!
ReplyDelete@Gracie: You can catch Kimmel on abc.com online. I don't know if last night's episode is up yet (I didn't get to see it either!) But if not, it will be soon. No worries.
ReplyDeleteIf I've gotten anything wrong, especially if I'm completely wrong, you guys know that I depend on you to straighten me out, right?
ReplyDeleteGracie, we all miss things that go by too fast, or that don't click for us, or we forget and those we'll correct for each other.
But if you're talking about your interpretations - they're yours. No right or wrong.
Also, if anyone is interested in my rather bizarre ramblings/considerations/reaction as well as a bonus book review that appears to have nothing to do with Lost, please feel free to pop over to my blog :)
ReplyDeleteVW: dimoo - what dicow says
@KB: 1. Can anyone analyze what Desmond meant when he and Jack where talking - before and after Desmond removed the rock in the light well. Desmond first was saying it doesn't all matter, he's going to another place, etc. And then after he's confused as to why it didn't work. How does this fit in with the bigger picture of Jack's purgatory/crossing over?
ReplyDeleteMy thought was that Desmond "flashed" to the Sideways-verse--a.k.a. the Holding Area prior to his afterlife--but, still being alive, didn't fully comprehend what it meant. So he likely thought that he could bring this relatively-happy world into being by doing something with the glowy water, kind of like how he saved Charlie's life time and again.
But, since he was still alive when his consciousness "flashed" to his afterlife, his brain/mind/soul/whatever was incapable of fully processing what he saw. So he thought it was some future he could bring about rather than his afterlife.
Just my interpretation though, and I think it's something that will be open to many interpretations.
I have a question before I sleep. Explain to me purgatory and why it has been used to describe Lost? My problem is that I've seen purgatory as hell or punishment. So I can sort this out please tell me how that word works for Lost.
ReplyDeleteJuliet's solution for the vending machine is the same as used on the island for MIB: turn the LIGHT off (unplug it), and then turn it back on. NO ONE here that I can see has mentioned that the LIGHT went out!
ReplyDeleteIt was replaced by the volcanic heat-glow, and then, with water coming back in, the LIGHT was restored, and MIB and Jack were both mortal again. This shows that Mother had her own arbitrary rules, too.
Loved the six major world religions depicted in the church window, as mentioned. Is the bamboo forest the writers' nod toward Eastern philosophies?
I agree that the other business that Ben needs to attend to is following up with Alex & Danielle.
A Super finale; beautiful!
@anonymous: Apparently all of those questions were just filler, and a way to keep Lost fans speculating about the show. I think that's called a 'bait and switch.'
ReplyDeleteI can't say you're wrong, but at the same time, the "switch" occurred long before the finale. To me (and, I suspect, some others) it was clear before the finale aired that while it would resolve the season six plot (which it did) and offer emotional/character resolution, it would spend little-to-no time resolving the show's overall arc, the little pieces from previous seasons that needed to be fit together.
@KB: Can anyone analyze what Desmond meant when he and Jack where talking - before and after Desmond removed the rock in the light well. Desmond first was saying it doesn't all matter, he's going to another place, etc. And then after he's confused as to why it didn't work. How does this fit in with the bigger picture of Jack's purgatory/crossing over?
Island Desmond, having seen the Sideways world when Sideways Desmond saw the island world, believed that turning off the light would transport him into the Sideways universe.
Like large portions of the audience, Desmond had convinced himself that he was working towards creating the Sideways universe. He was wrong: he just caught a glimpse of his afterlife without realizing it, and since he didn't die in the cave, he didn't go there.
Did Jack really have a son?
It's open for debate, but I don't think he did; I think the son was a construct intended to help him let go of his father issues.
@Rufus: Explain to me purgatory and why it has been used to describe Lost?
The word purgatory is being used in the sense of it being, not a punishment, but a waiting room: a place in the afterlife where souls wait before moving on to somewhere else.
It's being used 'round these parts as shorthand for what Christian described (the show never used the term), a place where deceased souls came together in order to remember and let go, so they could move on to someplace else.
@Rufus - there are quite a few meanings to the notion of purgatory. The one that I am most familiar with is that of (as wikipedia puts it) "an intermediate state between death and final judgment". The fact that one might go there after death instead of one of the traditional destinations like Heaven or Hell could be seen as (or defined as) temporary punishment but affording one the opportunity to "gain in grace" before being absolved of one's sins and being allowed to 'move on' to Heaven. (insert your own image of positive afterlife *here*)
ReplyDeleteChristian traditions define this more narrowly, depending on the branch, but as this applies to LOST, we have our Lostaways 'creating this place' themselves as a way of "remembering ... and letting go". Each of the characters shown in the final scenes in the church is implied to have participated in the creation of this particular 'way-station' so that they might work out their issues ('gain in grace') and be able to 'move on' or advance to whatever the next step or stage or destination one believes might be part of this progression.
Does that make sense?
@Rufus:
ReplyDeleteYour confusion is understandable as there is not a universally agreed definition of purgatory. For some, Dante included, it is the outer edge of Hades and a rather neutral place of mild anguish over being separated from loved ones but not a place of perdition/hell. For others, it is a place you wait and work things out, until redeemed by either your own actions or a redeemer. For some, limbo is equivalent, and for others there are 2 distinct limbos, one for the pre-Christ ancestors and another for the original-sinning but otherwise innocent babes, neither of which is equivalent to a more task-to-be-completed purgatory. Good luck.
vw: hesse -- are you kidding me?
1)Was the church where everyone met at the end of the episode the same church where Eloise had her Dahrma station?
ReplyDelete2) How did Jack go from being in the bottom of the cave - near the white light - to on ground-level, next to a pond, where he would eventually die?
3) In the Flash Sideways world, what's the deal with Jack's son? How does he have a son in purgatory if he never had one in real life?
Thanks for all the comments, they have helped me iron out the kinks since last night!
ReplyDeleteWhenever I think too hard on the "meaning"' of LOST, I'm finding myself back in tears. As someone who has always been uncomfortable thinking about death, and what happens when you die, the end of LOST has given me an image that I can hold on to.
Now, I'm at peace with the image that when my time comes, I'll be met by my community of people that I was tied to throughout my life, and we'll go to the light together. I'm also now reminded how important finding that community is, and how it's never to late to find redemption.
I'm pretty sure that Darlton was only trying to tell a good story, and not preach to us about how we should live our lives, but this is what I'm taking away from it.
Maybe I should become a Buddist :)!
I need help with this one?
ReplyDeletetlh9 said: "@Nikki re: "So... Did Jack end up getting two phone calls from Oceanic? Desmond fake-called him, making us all think the coffin wasn’t really there, but if it WAS there, then why didn’t Oceanic actually call Jack as well?"
No ~ he only needed Desmond's call, because (per Christian) the sideways wasn't real. There wasn't a "real" Oceanic in the sideways to call him. Desmond was just setting things up for Jack to come to the point he needed to be at."
I understood from Christian that the sideways world was not real, but it WASvery real to Jack for as long as he couldn't face the alternative, OR until he didn't require the sideways anymore and could live with the implications of it not being there. There's a slim difference there in some ways, but to Jack it would make all the difference in the world. He couldn't go until he was ready! For all we know, Jack believed in that sideways world for a long time before Desmond started the gentle push in the right direction.
Am I right, or no?
I think by using words like purgatory we are confusing ourselves.
ReplyDeleteBy showing the various religious symbols in the window I think the Lost creators weren't saying, this will be open to fit any one of your belief systems, which ever it might be. Rather I think they were saying this is Lost - it will not fit into any of these because we don't want it to. We are going to end this our way, so enjoy it, but it's not purgatory, it's not reincarnation, it's not any of those - it's Lost.
Of course, that is just MY personal take on it.
As ever, the estimable Teebore is one step ahead of me!
ReplyDeleteI might add for Rufus, however, that one of the most popular theories back in the early seasons of what the Island actually represented was this notion of purgatory. Viewers postulated that everyone had actually died in the Oceanic 815 crash and that what we saw of them was their presence in purgatory since for whatever reason (as outlined in their flashbacks) they had not yet acknowledged their 'sins' and sought forgiveness (grace) so that they could be eligible to 'move on' to whatever awaited them after Final Judgment.
@Rufus:What Teebore and HB said. I would add that Darlton earned a technical win in stating that The Island was not purgatory. It was in fact Limbo, not purgatory. And it was LA X that was Limbo, not the island.
ReplyDeleteWhat did I just say?
Beautiful. Perfect. These are the two words that I use to describe this finale.
ReplyDeleteEverything came together in a perfect "Lost" fashion, and I'm actually quite happy that they didn't answer much of the side-mysteries. This show has always been about these people, and in the final scenes you get a profound impact of how far these people have come and how powerful the strength of friendship and love is.
The climactic fight between Jack and Locke was fantastic. Not only epic, but it was so poetic in the way that it was conceived. The Jack vs. Locke dynamic has always been a strong driving force of the show - science vs. faith. Here, we have Jack who has now realized the beauty of Locke's philosophy and outlook on the world, and he is battling evil that has perverted Locke's appearance and definition.
One of my favorite scenes in the finale and now the entire series is when Locke and Jack are lowering Desmond into the Light Source. Locke making the remarks about old times and Jack telling him that he's not Locke is beautiful. As I stated earlier, the Monster's greatest flaw is that he's not John Locke, and that he's not being himself. Everyone in "Lost" has found redemption by finding themselves and being who they are. The Man in Black cannot comprehend the strength of doing this, and so his greatest failure is continually mimicking others, whether that be John Locke or Christian Shephard or Yemi or anyone who has died. Identity is a very prominent theme here.
To me, the most poignant scenes in the finale happened in the sideways timeline (from now on I'll refer to it as the afterlife). The revelation that these characters are all dead and need to rekindle their relationships that helped them save the world in order to "move on" (presumably to Heaven, depending on your religion) is so satisfying. This afterlife that we have been seeing all season takes place long after the journey of "Lost" we know, and the series is that much more significant because of it. If you watch the finale and find yourself asking "So, what's the point of these six seasons if they're all dead? What's the point of the Island?", then you're missing the point. This show is about these characters and how they were called to fulfill their destinies - saving the world, literally. The Island was in danger of being destroyed and therefore the world being destroyed once the Monster left the Island. Jacob summoned these people to save the world. They could only do this after their experiences with each other on this Island. "Lost" is a story about love, redemption, friendship, and courage.
Christian Shephard's body was missing from his coffin way back in season one. This leads me to believe that the afterlife has always existed, and as people died, they became existential in this afterlife without their memories of what they accomplished on the Island. Now, there's some speculation here when Jughead comes into play. It seems that the bomb ONLY brought them back to 2007. (Since the afterlife takes place long after the essential story). In a great way of twisting the audience's perspective, the Island is in fact reality and the Sideways is a limbo/purgatory place.
@Steve: 1)Was the church where everyone met at the end of the episode the same church where Eloise had her Dahrma station?
ReplyDeleteYes.
2) How did Jack go from being in the bottom of the cave - near the white light - to on ground-level, next to a pond, where he would eventually die?
He was transported out by the energy in the cave, just like MiB's body was (Jack landed in more or less the same position as MiB did, but, having not become a Smoke Monster, he was still alive and able to go off and die.
3) In the Flash Sideways world, what's the deal with Jack's son? How does he have a son in purgatory if he never had one in real life?
My take is that the son was constructed by Jack to enable him to work out his father issues before letting go and moving on.
The finale was beautiful and emotional due to the many encounters between the characters remembering each other. Sun & Jin, Claire & Charlie, Sawyer & Juliet, Dan & Charlotte, Jack & Kate. Beautiful. Everyone meeting in the church was very special, and it should be noted that there are characters missing: Eko, Michael, Walt, Ana Lucia, Alex, Rousseau, etc.
ReplyDeleteDesmond said that Ana Lucia was not ready, and Ben decides to stay presumably because he wants to be with Alex and Danielle and does not feel ready to move on. Michael was constantly alienated from the other castaways, and Walt is still alive. We can presume that Michael and the various other spirits on the Island become stuck on the Island forever until it inevitably sinks. The afterlife takes place long after "Lost" because Hurley comments to Ben that they did a good job protecting the Island. What caused the Island to eventually sink? We don't know, but there was definitely no Man in Black to oppose them, so I think the Island was a peaceful locale until perhaps the electromagnetism simply died out, sinking into the ocean and killing Hurley, Ben,Desmond, Rose, and Bernard (and Vincent).
The characters on the Ajira flight traveled back to the mainland, and probably lived out their lives there and died naturally. Then, if they were "good" people overall, they went into the church.
Many people will walk away from "Lost" with the assumption that this was all about Jack Shephard. I understand their view, but part of me disagrees. This series is a huge ensemble cast, and we had to be introduced to one of them first. We're introduced to Jack first because he will eventually go on to be the character who replaces Jacob and stops the Monster. Yet, Jack didn't kill the Monster all by himself. The events that unfolded happened only because everyone worked together. In fact, it's Kate that deals the critical blow to the Monster. Yes, Christian Shephard is JACK'S dad, but consider if Jack's dad didn't die and it was perhaps someone else's father who was in a coffin on Oceanic 815. I think it would have the same ramifications. It's Jack because he is the character who had the most difficult journey - becoming a man of faith when once he was so resistant to any notion of destiny. Jack has the greatest journey and victory in "Lost", and truly fulfills his surname in the closing minutes.
Though somewhat predictable, having the final frame be the closing of Jack's eye as he dies is was the perfect and only way to end this series. It's a perfect bookend to the story, and shows how simple but powerful a quiet scene like this can be. Vincent laying beside Jack symbolizes Jack's "Live Together, Die Alone" speech. Jack doesn't die alone. This scene also made me think of one of the mobisodes from Season 3, when Vincent runs to Jack's body in the bamboo just after the initial crash. Christian stops Vincent and tells the dog it's not time yet and that his son has work to do. Yes, he does. Jack's job was to bring everyone together to stop the Evil from destroying the world. Epic, eh?
The afterlife also explains Hurley's visions of dead people. When he sees Charlie and Eko in season 4, he really does see them. The audience (at least me) never took this literally, but if you view the series as one whole story, everything hints at this ending. It's perfect.
@Sonshine - agreed! Once again, you've put things more succinctly than I could manage. ; ]
ReplyDeleteNot enough can be said about "Lost" and its impact on television and pop culture. It was the first show that I ever cared about and watched weekly. It used flashbacks in the greatest way possible, and influenced me to want to do something in the entertainment and storytelling medium. "Lost" will forever hold a special place in my heart and life, and I don't think there will ever be something so poignant and personal to me. In my opinion, it really is the best, most beautifully crafted show of all time. It appeals to everyone (if they give it a chance), and its message is simple but effective: Love conquers all. There were no easy outs for this finale, and the producers, cast, and crew closed a story that was not easy to close, and did it wonderfully. This is the greatest finale I have ever seen to the greatest THING of entertainment I have ever experienced. I still remember where I was sitting in what room for almost every live broadcast of a new episode,and I will miss the anticipation that came with each new chapter. Ever since September 22, 2004, I have come to know and love these characters deeply, and I will always love this series. They say that more of the little intricacies of mystery will be answered on the dvd/bluray release in August. I'm excited to see the reasoning, but I also hope they don't answer EVERYTHING very CLEARLY. Mystery is what makes "Lost" what it is. I'm incredibly satisfied with this ending and where we leave our characters. This is a series about finding yourself, and I must say that I didn't find "Lost", it found me.
ReplyDelete@SonshineMusic:
ReplyDeleteI don't disagree with your refinement of the purgatory discussion when I say that is all of these and a bigger tent rather than none of these.
@KB: Jack did not have a son in the SW, as that was really just a waiting room to the afterlife. More and more as I think about it, it's like David was created in Jack's mind to be HIM. Jack did not have a good childhood with Christian with his father. But in the alt-universe, David and Jack are able to settle those issues. Jack became the father that he wished Christian had been. David had the father Jack wished he had had. David was a manifestation that helped Jack break through and let go of his daddy issues. It was beautiful.
ReplyDelete@Kotowski: It seems that the bomb ONLY brought them back to 2007.
ReplyDeleteThat's the conclusion I came to as well: the bomb was ALWAYS part of the Incident (what happened, happened) and it's detonation shunted the Losties back to 2007.
The only relationship between Jughead the flash sideways is that Darlton chose to tell us the story of the flash sideways immediately after the bomb went off to manipulate (in a good way) our expectations and theories.
Senex: Sorry about the CTV chat... I think the beginning was overwhelming for everyone, with the "moderators" throwing every, "What was that" and "WTF" comment at us. Seriously, I bet 100 flew by my eyes in less than half a minute, all saying THE SAME THING. When it finally slowed down (after the hosts just gave up and started talking amongst ourselves) we actually got a pretty good chat going there, but it was completely overwhelming. Thanks for coming all the same! :)
ReplyDeleteBut I'm torn. Emotionally this was satisfying. But at the same time, a part of my brain is saying, "sentimental tripe," and a narrative evasion of the logic of the story (much like the end of the Return of the Jedi where the soul of Obi Wan Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin Skywalker appear together). Sentimentally it works, but does it work in terms of the logic of the narrative--in terms of the mythology?
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with Fred. Emotionally, it was a great episode, but once it was over I was kind of like....OK but what about...??
The explanation of the AfterFlashes was great, I totally bought that, but the on-Island happenings is where I wanted more explanation or deeper consequences. Desmond pulled the cork that was keeping "Hell" from being unleashed on Earth, and after a few earthquakes, Jack jsut plugs the hole back up....nothing happened. That was a bit of a downer for me.
Kate delivering the fatal blow to FLocke was a little anti-climactic for me as well. The Superman Punch by Jack was AWESOME and the fight itself was great but I was hoping jack would finish him off.
"You're not John Locke and you disrespect his memory by wearing his face" This may have been my favorite moment in the entire series I LOVED IT!!! I feel like this finally gave John a purpose, he was recognized as the great man that he was always meant to be, he really was SPECIAL.
I LOVED the closing shot on Jack's eye as it closed (although I didn't quite understand Vincent being by his side) and then the plane wreckage after (which was further proof that the Island DID happen).
Still processing and may have more to add later
I just got done watching it-staying up late after work- and WOW! I'm an emotional wreck-my eyes are gonna be swollen for a week-and I loved all the reunion stuff, but...I'm totally confused. I need to go to bed and mull over this in my sleep, and then think about it more when I wake up (if I can sleep, I keep wanting to cry-not sure if it's just let down from all the hype or what). I did love all the memories in it (Sawyer and Juliet I think was my favorite). I need to go to be now...
ReplyDeleteAnyone else having trouble with blogger?
ReplyDeleteNikki - Just want to point out that Desmond, in island time as opposed to Jack's end-of-life sideways world, was left on the island with no Penny. We don't know whether he ever got off the island again or what happened to their relationship. All we know is that they were together after they died.
ReplyDeleteJust watched it again. And I didn't know it was possible to cry even harder than I did last night. Next to me is the newly constructed "Mount Kleenex". I don't think I'll ever watch that episode with a dry eye.
ReplyDeleteI've never bought any of the seasons the day it comes out, as they come out around Christmastime and I'm banned from buying anything after November. But since it comes out sometime in August . . . let's just put it this way, I'll be the first one at the store on the day season 6 comes out.
Lost delivered a terrific series finale. I think it may be my favourite episode of the series. With Ab Aeterno and What They Died For a close second and third.
For 6 seasons, we were shown so many of the various character's past, present and sideways realities. Then making them a part of only Jack's realization of his issues and his death, rather then making it a plot about all of the castaways and such, seemed like a cop out. If this were just about Jack's moving on out of a Limbo or Purgatory like state, why the Dharma, Whitmore, others/child kidnappings and several other elements of the plot?
ReplyDeleteI hate to say it, but right now I feel so letdown! I feel it melted into a sentimental lameness, and I don't want to feel that way. I am going to read through the posts and blogs and see if you can help me understand and change my mind.
Donna S: And then, in the end...guess what? It was all just a figment of our imagination. Their imagination. None of it was REAL.
ReplyDeleteI disagree... I don't think none of it was real. I believe that everything that happened on the island actually happened on the island. After jack died, he went to the SW. So that's why we're debating these things still... because it WAS real. It wasn't a snowglobe.
Suzanne: Oh my GOD that sounds TERRIBLE!! I feel so badly for the people of Cleveland. I remember just before it started I thought, "What would happen if someone next door sets off a firework that flies over to my house and knocks out my satellite or something?" Hahaha!! (Yes, that is where my mind goes.) I hope your affiliate does everyone the courtesy of repeating the episode for you.
ReplyDeletejva: Pretty clever trick, but I think fans are being kind of lame to confuse that with a truly satisfying ending.
ReplyDeleteI don't think an opinion is lame, it's just an opinion. And if all you've seen today are people praising the finale, you haven't looked at enough sites. ;) Look harder, there's a LOT of hate out there.
To everyone sticking up for the Shannon and Sayid pairing at the end, thank you. You're really helping me see a positive side to it. As much as I think he and Nadia are soulmates, I was happy to see Sayid happy. And if it takes Shannon to make that happen, then I guess I'm OK with it.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Nikki, for hitting all the important points so succinctly. I’m still reading, processing, trying to understand the story as a whole. It’s a work in progress, as I’m still really confused. I’ve been reading comments here, and elsewhere on some other sites, hoping to hop aboard someone else’s train of thought. Several ideas have made sense, made the light switch on in my brain, but then I’ll say, “But what about..." or “How does that tie into..." First thing this morning at work, a guy who quit watching in S2 asked me what I thought of the finale, and I had to say “No comment.” At that early hour, I literally had nothing intelligent to say about it. Pretty pathetic, I know.
ReplyDeleteBut I loved the same things you loved about it. And I want to add my thanks and appreciation to the heaps of love notes you’re getting today. You’ve always done an awesome job of recapping, analyzing, and theorizing. And I’m looking forward to whatever’s next.
@Question Mark: I really identified with your first post on here. I was nodding my head yes, thinking, “THAT’S what I want to say!"
Jessica: "You can interpret based on your own faith. Whether it's Christian, Muslim, etc." Well I'm sorry, but I didn't invest all this time in what is an AMAZING show, so that they could turn around and make it a damn Sunday School lesson. So... because I am not at all a religious person/so because I don't have a faith to fill in the blanks for me, I've got to suffer a massive disappointment in storytelling???
ReplyDeleteJessica, try looking at it this way: Faith isn't only about religion. Faith is about believing in yourself, believing in friends and family. Believing that if you push a button every 108 minutes you might actually save the world.
People on this show have had faith in each other. Is it all about believing in God and an afterlife? Of course not. I've never attempted to hide on this blog that I come from a Christian faith, and believe strongly in it, but I believe that this show allowed each person to take something from it. If you're coming from an agnostic/atheist standpoint, that's as fine as any other belief system. Hurley looked at Jack and said, "I believe in you." Jack then said the same line back to Hurley. Haven't you ever had faith in things on a day to day basis? That your friends will be there for you or you will meet this deadline or that things will get better tomorrow if they weren't today?
The show was about connections between people and belief in ourselves and others. Not about belief in God. If you want to make it that, you can, but if you don't, then you don't have to.
Those are just my thoughts. I'm just trying to help out here because I know how disappointing it is to invest so much in a show and be upset with the ending (it's happened to me many times) so I feel your pain. ;)
Jenn: Whatever happened, happened.
ReplyDeleteThis comment just made me smile. :)
Re: Walt being in the finale: They didn't lie: he was there all right... in John Locke's flash where he realized the SW wasn't real, he suddenly saw the knife-throwing lesson he'd given Walt.
ReplyDeleteSo was Malcolm David Kelley in the finale? Yes. Was it new footage? No. Do I feel tricked by that comment? YES.
redeem: Aw, don't feel like crap. I honestly couldn't remember who'd even said it, actually, and I know you didn't do it on purpose. I'll still watch it. It's not like it's 100 episodes long. ;)
ReplyDeleteTeebore & Lisa: AH on the Eko thing!! I thought the exact same thing and actually said that in a post that went up today (I am SO far behind on these comments!!) I'm so glad I'm not the only one who wants that to be Eko's happy little SW. :)
ReplyDeleteTM Lawrence: Sigh, I just love reading your comments. And that you added Jonathan Livingston Seagull in there... weird fact. In the early 90s there was a British shoegazer band called Ride that I was obsessed with, and they created an entire album of songs based on that book. I ended up sitting in on an interview with them (my then-boyfriend, now-husband was a music reporter for the student newspaper at our university) and at some point the interview ended and I got involved in this long, heady discussion with Andy Bell and Mark Gardner about Jonathan Livingston Seagull. It was one of the coolest book discussions I ever had. ;)
ReplyDeleteI think I need to go back and read it again.
Gracie: I already posted an update that the phone call thing was something I'd mentioned while I was typing the notes up along the way, and I'd forgotten to remove it when it got to the end. Just ignore that. :)
ReplyDeleteNikki,
ReplyDeleteThanks for you kind words! They made me feel a little better on a day where I am still feeling depressed about how so many of us were robbed of a great experience.
I plan to try to watch it again with my husband and kids tonight via the internet. They are reairing it here in Cleveland on Saturday night, but unfortunately, I will be traveling out of state for work.
Reading your blog, listening to you on the podcast, and all of these great comments has really helped to make me feel better about everything. Thanks!
In the end LOST was, like life itself, not so much about the answers, but the journey.
ReplyDeleteThe show delt with issues we all struggle with regardless of religious views - why are we here, what really matters, what happens after we die. Who doesn't think about those things?
The final 15 mins was shown through Jack's POV. So it was framed by his beliefs, his worldview. I imagine the Kwans saw or would have seen it very differently. Was it purgatory? Was it a metaphysical room between universes and time? Was it the island rewarding the "good" people? Was it the sideways time all just that moment between Jack's death? Was it something Jakob set up? Or Jakob/Jack? or Jakob/Hugo? I don't know. I don't care.
In the end, the story of LOST, the story that Damon and Carlton decided to share with us, was about these people.
I thought the final scenes said so much about community and the importance of the families that we create through circumstance and love.
I'm good with that.
@Jessica: After sleeping on this all... I still find myself extremely disappointed. [This was] a massive disappointment in storytelling.
ReplyDelete@Teebore: The story the show has been telling since the beginning, got very short shrift and is as frustratingly unresolved and dangling – it fell short in providing an adequate plot (non-character, non-emotional) resolution to the show as a whole.
I am in complete agreement!
• Eloise Hawking & The Lamppost: Why did she leave the Island? How did [she] build the Station, and beneath a Church!? Where did she get all the information about where the Island would be and how to get to it?
• Charles Widmore: Who was he and why did he want the Island? Why did he want Ben? What “deal” did he make with Sun? Why didn’t he just get the information he needed from Eloise?
• People can’t leave the Island: So Hugo believed. But Ben went back and forth at will, as did Richard, Tom-the-Other, and the Dharma Initiative. Why? And how did they return if the Island would jump from place-to-place and in time? Was Eloise an equal-opportunity-travel-agent to all these disparate groups?
• How could Jacob leave the Island, but MiB couldn’t?!?
• The Numbers: I understand Teebore’s explanation that they are the factors of the Valenzetti Equation, but Jacob seemed to have them from “the beginning” and how did Hugo settle on those particular numbers for his lottery ticket?
• The continued Dharma pallet drops: And all the off-Island “helpers”. Who were these people and how did they become connected to the Island or some of those on the Island?
Word Verf: saner : Seriously!?! Blam! BSL! This one’s for you! ;)
Why was it important for Claire to raise Aaron and no one else?
ReplyDeleteJust one last comment because I've been mad about the ending of Lost since I realized in the last 10-15 minutes of the show that we weren't going to get any answers: Carlton and Damon (I'm never going to watch any show they do in the future, ever) say it's about the relationships. Nice, but the relationships on the island didn't work out. Juliet died, so she and Sawyer weren't together. Jack died, so he and Kate weren't together. Same for Sun and Jin, Sayid and Nadia, Locke and Helen, Hurley and Libby, and maybe for Desmond and Penny, depending on whether he ever got back to her (they didn't bother to address that not-important-to-any-fans point). So what was the big message of the ending? That we all get to be with our loved ones after we die (which, by the way, means Sayid could have been with Nadia. Obviously they put him with Shannon to find a lazy way to bring Maggie Grace back at the end for the benefit of the fans). There's a novel concept that I've never heard before.
ReplyDeleteNikki, you're a book editor. I would venture to say that, if I wrote a book that raised many interesting questions and clues, and left 98% of them hanging at the end of the book, you would tell me to Go Back and Do it Again. Everyone can call the end emotionally satisfying. It was. I liked seeing everyone together on their way to the Beyond. But for all of the questions raised in the show that Lost viewers spent infinite hours debating and theorizing about, and which were apparently "not important," we were ripped off.
The more I think about it, the more satisfied I am with this ending. For those of you displeased that the SW seemed to become resolved in Jack's POV, I think we need to remember that if we had been shown the meaning of any of the other character's enlightenment and what "remembering" the island meant, the ending and meaning of the SW would have been spoiled. They all had their own SW story and towards the end had their own moments where they "remembered" and learned the truth off screen. All the better as it set up a true "What the Holy Hell" moment...at least for me. Jack has always been the most stubborn and self centered character on the show and it took him the longest to become enlightened and to let go. The show began and ended with Jack's heroic actions and POV. If you don't like Jack, you will be disappointed. But I find it hard to believe that any true LOST fan would be disappointed that Jack was the beginning and end of our story.
ReplyDeleteJacob said, "It only ends once. Anything before that is just progress."
ReplyDeleteThat phrase takes on a whole new meaning. It's about the progress of the human spirit, illustrated through the characters on this show. We met characters from all walks of life and most of them had some baggage. How they dealt with that baggage was the progress.
I never cried so much in my life. And reading your blog post made me relive it all and ... well ... my eyes are still wet :P
ReplyDeleteI'm happy they left unanswered questions to let us interpret in our own way.
Funny that, when this series started, I didn't even bother to follow it.. then, at the end of season 4, SpaceChannel made a marathon of all the 4 first season before the begining of season 5. I decided then that, if they "bothered" to put on the air all the first 4 seasons, must be somekind of good.. So I decided to watch it all.. And I'm so glad I did. I would've missed out. Even if, after every episode I said to myself: "I'm LOST here, I don't get it".
Well, I am sorry to say that I've discovered your blog only last night, at the CTV after-show chat session. I have a lot of reading now to keep me busy as I've decided to get the series on DVD and follow your past posts as I go through all of it again.
Thanks in advance for being there :P
I have a question for anyone still reading this far down in the comments... everyone's talking about the scene of plane wreckage during end credits, but on the CTV broadcast they just showed a commercial for another show with the credits running across the bottom of the screen over a white background. There was no wreckage in our broadcast. And I can't see the ep on the ABC site. Did anyone post the end on Youtube or something so I could actually see it?
ReplyDeleteA short list of Things We Didn't See in last night's finale:
ReplyDelete1) Hurley, in his role as Island Protector Real-Life Action Figure™, travels back in time to record the Numbers that will eventually heard by Sam Toomey & Leonard and learned by ... Hurley in the Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute. This recording will once again be playing when Ajira 316 crash lands on Hydra Island in 2007/8
2) Ben & Hurley develop a charming 'bromance' while working together to protect the Island - and eventually decide to adopt. Then, they realize that they will have to start bringing more pregnant women to the Island if this plan is going to work. Cue the Giacchino "Incredibly Pregnant Woman Who Is Nonetheless Traveling The Globe When She Suddenly Crashes/Washes Ashore On The Island" theme music.
3) Ajira 316 enters Hawaii airspace and is granted permission to land. Unfortunately, no-one has a passport, several passengers offer an implausible story of having been stranded on a South Pacific island that doesn't appear on anyone's maps and Kate Austen is arrested for violating parole by leaving the state of California. An uncomfortable Ms. Austen is grilled on why she lied about there not having been any other survivors of Oceanic 815 when she was rescued the LAST time, despite the fact that two of them have now returned with her. Oh, and the suave-looking guy with with the mascara can't seem to come up with a reasonable birthdate for the authorities. "You sure you don't mean NINETEEN-Forty-Two?? And, dude - there is NO WAY you are 65 years old."
4) In the FST, Ben and Rousseau start dating and eventually Ben moves in with she and Alex. Alex, meanwhile, is happy to move out to her dorm at Yale since she is uncomfortable with her Mom's energetic, *ahem*, physical attraction to Dr. Linus - whom she now finds kinda creepy.
5) Back on the Island, members of a an Oceanographic Institute team land on the Island in the year 2057 when their Aeroship's instruments mysteriously malfunction while they are surveying the South Pacific for sources of renewable energy. Exploring the Island, they come across the skeleton of a man lying lying in a bamboo grove a short distance inland from the beach. Judging by his clothing, they estimate that he has been dead for several hundred years. The hands are clasped together in a gesture they take to be one of final prayer.
*boof* LOST
Oh humanbean, that was wonderful. Tell me more, tell me more...
ReplyDelete@E.B For 6 seasons, we were shown so many of the various character's past, present and sideways realities. Then making them a part of only Jack's realization of his issues and his death, rather then making it a plot about all of the castaways and such, seemed like a cop out. If this were just about Jack's moving on out of a Limbo or Purgatory like state, why the Dharma, Whitmore, others/child kidnappings and several other elements of the plot?
ReplyDeleteOnly the flash sideways was about Jack and everyone else moving. Everything else was about defeating the Man in Black and saving existence.
So was Malcolm David Kelley in the finale? Yes. Was it new footage? No. Do I feel tricked by that comment? YES.
Ha! Agreed. Well said.
Nik - I can't find any video on YouTube just yet, nor are there any screencaps available at the moment. It was an interesting and arresting series of images. They played over the credits, as you stated and showed several silent views (well, near-silent; you could hear the waves and wind) of what appeared to be the fresh wreckage of Oceanic 815. I don't seem to recall that they scanned the wreckage, just held each shot for five seconds or more. There was luggage scattered about but no bodies nor sign of people amongst the wreckage.
ReplyDeleteI took it to be a symbolic image of 'all that we leave behind' but did not feel that it was meant to imply that the Oceanic crash was without survivors in the Island timelines. I'll see what I can come up with to show you.
Re: end wreckage. These were "framed" shots, almost as if intended as photos, I thought, honoring the Lost project, where it started and under what circumstances, for everyone both in front of and behind the cameras.
ReplyDeleteThe bar has been set very, very high for TV series finales to come.
(My word verification below for this message is "crying"-- coincidence?)
@Nikki...are you able to watch episodes on abc.go.com? If so, you will have to sit through the initial commercial, but then curser forward to the very end. You will then have to sit through one more commercial. Right after Jack closes his eyes and we get the LOST words on a black screen, you see the ending credits with the scenes of the wreckage on the beach...no people.
ReplyDeletefreckesnpt said: "Why was Kate wearing something different inside the church? did anyone question that?"
ReplyDeleteI noticed she had changed out of that black dress...well, you gotta admit, that mini-dress was waaaaaaay too sexy for church! And the tank top and pants she changed into, although of classier quality, reminded me of what she's worn on the island for six years.
@Nikki: I found it on youtube. Ending scene and it includes the credits. Enjoy.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QInarrEkhnY
@closing credits wreckage:
ReplyDeleteI also took it to be a "look far we've come" kinda thing, and something simply intended to allow the final credits to unfold without getting usurped by a "coming up on the news!" plug which, apparently, happened in Canada anyway.
Nik - I also just sent you screencaps of the wreckage via email. Check your inbox
ReplyDeleteEmpire said -- So the scene of the island submerged under water in the season six premiere...wonder when that came into play. I will assume it happened long after Hurley became protector, perhaps that's how he and Ben ultimately died.
ReplyDeleteI think it was just the island in Jack's version of the SW. It's how the island met its demise which then gave the plane no cause to crash.