Mostly, I write about television, and with this being the home of the Great Buffy Rewatch of 2011, a lot of that television is Joss Whedon-related (when it's not about Lost). Stick around if you love Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, Sherlock, Lost, BtVS, Doctor Who, or anything on HBO.
Monday, February 08, 2010
Lost Meets Avatar
As if we needed more evidence of James Cameron's lack of originality, check out one fan's take on the lost baggage scene at the airport (click on the image to enlarge). Thanks to the many people who pointed it out to me. I saw it here first.
Eh. It's not like Avatar has paramilitary jerkwads who invade the jungle for... um... Okay, but in Lost there's a some kind of special connection between the natives and where they... live... Well, the difference between the Island and Pandora is that the Island has some mysterious resource under... groun...duhhh. Hmm. Is there mystical healing going on? There is? What about people taking over other bodies? Michelle Rodriguez, even?
LOLZ!! I love all your comments. Awesome. Blam, you kill me every time.
Robert: I actually agree with you. I'll be the first to jump in and talk about James Cameron as Hollywood's biggest ego with the least reason to have one, I still think the movie was a hell of a lot of fun.
I've never seen any of James Cameron's movies, but I did see an interview with him, and honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. He seemed totally uninterested in Avatar, actually in everything, and it seemed like he thought quite a bit about himself.
I don't actually think that James Cameron was ripping off (or even influenced by) Lost, by the way. He worked on Avatar for years, and whatever similarities they have are common antecedents to plenty of other TV series, movies, and prose fiction. There's a little something called Star Wars that owes debts to all sorts of stuff that came before, too.
Blam: Of course he didn't rip off Lost. I think he wrote Avatar about 20 years ago (or at least that's what he claims to have done). That movie's been in post-production since Damon was in diapers. ;)
Jo Thornley: Just to let you know, cynical rants are what we live for here. heehee!
So do you think Stephen King watches 'Lost'?? I'm slogging my way thru his 'Duma Key'...about an island that calls certain people to it, and "wants them to be there".....then bring on all the psychic weirdo stuff.
@Blam whatever similarities they have are common antecedents to plenty of other TV series, movies, and prose fiction.
A guy called Christopher Booker wrote a book called 'The Seven Basic Plots' in which he claimed that all the stories in the world are one of seven basic plots (the clue's in the title!) They are: 1.Overcoming the monster 2.Rags to riches 3.The quest 4.Voyage and return 5.Comedy (as in Shakespearian comedy, where there are mix ups, romance and a happy ending) 6.Tragedy 7.Rebirth
There is also Carl Jung and his theory of archetypes which permeate all our stories.
Cameron, Lucas and Darlton are just plugging into these patterns that have been around for thousands of years, although some do it with more skill and subtlety than others!
Nikki: Blam, you kill me every time. You'll appreciate this: Me being so literal-minded, I flashed on Buffy 5.01, when she kept staking Dracula as soon as he manifested. Just call me Blam Stoker (ouch).
Ali Bags: all the stories in the world are one of seven basic plots Or in the case of Lost, all seven of them! Well, I guess the jury's still out on Shakespearean comedy; there's been love and laughter, but we don't know if there's a happy ending.
Paul Escobar: We've been intellectual property thieves since the dawn of humanity. I'm sorry, but that phrase has been trademarked. ... VW: pargenes — DNA that results in average looks and intelligence.
* The hero: Rescuer, champion * The maiden: Purity, desire * The wise old man: Knowledge, guidance * The magician: Mysterious, powerful * The earth mother: Nature * The witch or sorceress: Dangerous * The trickster: Deceiving, hidden
So interesting to see the seven types of stories. And good info on the Jung story types well.
Very interesting, that Lost fits into all of the categories at one time or another over the course of the show (one could argue.)
I never really thought about the parallels between Lost and Avatar before, but when they're spelled out like this…it's clear they are similar—despite the fact that Cameron wrote Avatar many, many years before the idea of Lost was conceived.
I was just guessing from my own experience. Whatever browser you're using may have a similar feature, or be set to deny cookies, or something along those lines.
@Blam: if LOST contains Shakespearian comedy, then you would need a wedding to end the show. The difference between A Midsummer Night's Dream and Romeo and Juliet is one ends in a wedding (bringing together the families--very LOST considering Boone's comment in Locke's dream, that he must bring the families together), and the other ends with the lovers dying and the families reconciled in grief. Notice, if Friar Lawrence had been a little faster, he'd have saved the day and the lovers. If LOST ends with the marriage (years later) between Ji Yeon and Aaron, then LOST would have played out like a classic romance/comedy. Considering how marriage is a theme in LOST, I say why not? Of course, most of the marriages depicted seem of a very poor quality.
The 7 plots of all narratives. Sounds like Joseph Campbell, borrowing from Sir James Frazer "The Golden Bough." The king in the grove whom the servant/successor must kill (sound familiar). All narrative revolves around the harvest cycle--the planting of grains (comedy), the harvesting (tragedy). The other point, which Joseph Campbell recognized, is that all narratives are religious narratives involving the monomyth. Jack is undergoing a journey of the hero to gain illumination--think how far Jack has come (1) wanting off the island but seeing rescue as the option; (2) wanting off the island but seeing resetting time by exploding Jughead as the option. Jack is following Campbell's monomyth. But I'm sure Darlton won't script Jack's journey exactly according to the monomyth.
I seem to have some kind of inadvertent aversion to James Cameron movies. I haven't seen Titanic, and I still haven't seen Avatar despite several attempts. Is my subconscious trying to tell me something?
I recently read an article about, God what the hell is her name? Sarah Conner from Terminator. She's one odd duck and talks about her revenge on Cameron's new wife is that she is now the thing he desires. Anyway, the whole thing was very...disjointed.
Blam: Pfft. FIGURES it was a MAC problem Ali Bags was having. (I'm assuming humanebean isn't following these comments, right? And yet... secretly hoping he is... heehee...)
["Eh. It's not like Avatar has paramilitary jerkwads who invade the jungle for... um... Okay, but in Lost there's a some kind of special connection between the natives and where they... live... Well, the difference between the Island and Pandora is that the Island has some mysterious resource under... groun...duhhh. Hmm. Is there mystical healing going on? There is? What about people taking over other bodies? Michelle Rodriguez, even?"]
ROFL!! Now I understand why "AVATAR" failed to win Best Picture. And I thought it was copying "DANCES WITH WOLVES".
Eh. It's not like Avatar has paramilitary jerkwads who invade the jungle for... um... Okay, but in Lost there's a some kind of special connection between the natives and where they... live... Well, the difference between the Island and Pandora is that the Island has some mysterious resource under... groun...duhhh. Hmm. Is there mystical healing going on? There is? What about people taking over other bodies? Michelle Rodriguez, even?
ReplyDeleteLocke is the Man in Black's avatar.
ReplyDeleteHihihi!!!! Very interesting and Awesome!!! :)))))
ReplyDeletehaha, I definitely would not go see Avatar for originality or scriptwriting, but the movie's damn entertaining.
ReplyDeleteHa ha, that's great. Now if I ever see it, I'll be thinking of that...
ReplyDeleteLOLZ!! I love all your comments. Awesome. Blam, you kill me every time.
ReplyDeleteRobert: I actually agree with you. I'll be the first to jump in and talk about James Cameron as Hollywood's biggest ego with the least reason to have one, I still think the movie was a hell of a lot of fun.
hehe Nikki and Blam, no wonder the movie seemed so familiar!
ReplyDeleteI've never seen any of James Cameron's movies, but I did see an interview with him, and honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. He seemed totally uninterested in Avatar, actually in everything, and it seemed like he thought quite a bit about himself.
ReplyDeleteOkay, cynical rant over. Sorry about that.
I don't actually think that James Cameron was ripping off (or even influenced by) Lost, by the way. He worked on Avatar for years, and whatever similarities they have are common antecedents to plenty of other TV series, movies, and prose fiction. There's a little something called Star Wars that owes debts to all sorts of stuff that came before, too.
ReplyDeleteBlam: Of course he didn't rip off Lost. I think he wrote Avatar about 20 years ago (or at least that's what he claims to have done). That movie's been in post-production since Damon was in diapers. ;)
ReplyDeleteJo Thornley: Just to let you know, cynical rants are what we live for here. heehee!
Hurley went to America in 1977 and shared his island experiences with james Cameron, who went on to write Avatar.
ReplyDelete:)
GOOD!
ReplyDeleteI've been waiting for someone to stick it to Cameron...ever since he made me cry at Titanic.
Bastard! This one's for killing JACK & turning ROSE into a horse-riding, jewellery-chucking femi-nazi!!
No one inserts subversive content & tragedy into mega blockbusters and gets away with it!
POP! POP!! POP!!!
(tongue planted firmly in cheek)
So do you think Stephen King watches 'Lost'?? I'm slogging my way thru his 'Duma Key'...about an island that calls certain people to it, and "wants them to be there".....then bring on all the psychic weirdo stuff.
ReplyDeleteNikki: Hehe... Somewhere I can be cynical AND sarcastic! Love it...
ReplyDelete@Blam whatever similarities they have are common antecedents to plenty of other TV series, movies, and prose fiction.
ReplyDeleteA guy called Christopher Booker wrote a book called 'The Seven Basic Plots' in which he claimed that all the stories in the world are one of seven basic plots (the clue's in the title!)
They are:
1.Overcoming the monster
2.Rags to riches
3.The quest
4.Voyage and return
5.Comedy (as in Shakespearian comedy, where there are mix ups, romance and a happy ending)
6.Tragedy
7.Rebirth
There is also Carl Jung and his theory of archetypes which permeate all our stories.
Cameron, Lucas and Darlton are just plugging into these patterns that have been around for thousands of years, although some do it with more skill and subtlety than others!
"...he claimed that all the stories in the world are one of seven basic plots (the clue's in the title!)..."
ReplyDeleteIf you want to narrow it down to 3...
1) Man vs. Man
2) Man vs. Nature
3) Man vs. Himself
We've been intellectual property thieves since the dawn of humanity.
Nikki: Blam, you kill me every time.
ReplyDeleteYou'll appreciate this: Me being so literal-minded, I flashed on Buffy 5.01, when she kept staking Dracula as soon as he manifested.
Just call me Blam Stoker (ouch).
Ali Bags: all the stories in the world are one of seven basic plots
ReplyDeleteOr in the case of Lost, all seven of them! Well, I guess the jury's still out on Shakespearean comedy; there's been love and laughter, but we don't know if there's a happy ending.
Paul Escobar: We've been intellectual property thieves since the dawn of humanity.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but that phrase has been trademarked.
...
VW: pargenes — DNA that results in average looks and intelligence.
@Blam Well, I guess the jury's still out on Shakespearean comedy
ReplyDeleteWhat about the love quadrangle? Although I must admit that has provided little 'comedy' as such. Cross dressing has been somewhat neglected as well.
(Why do I have to sign into my google account every time I post? It's driving me mad.)
Jung's story archetypes:
ReplyDelete* The hero: Rescuer, champion
* The maiden: Purity, desire
* The wise old man: Knowledge, guidance
* The magician: Mysterious, powerful
* The earth mother: Nature
* The witch or sorceress: Dangerous
* The trickster: Deceiving, hidden
And his other archetypes are relevant too:
ReplyDeleteFamily archetypes
* The father: Stern, powerful, controlling
* The mother: Feeding, nurturing, soothing
* The child: Birth, beginnings, salvation
Animal archetypes
* The faithful dog: Unquestioning loyalty
* The enduring horse: Never giving up
I'm sorry, but that phrase has been trademarked.
ReplyDeleteHa!
@ AliBags
ReplyDeleteSo interesting to see the seven types of stories. And good info on the Jung story types well.
Very interesting, that Lost fits into all of the categories at one time or another over the course of the show (one could argue.)
I never really thought about the parallels between Lost and Avatar before, but when they're spelled out like this…it's clear they are similar—despite the fact that Cameron wrote Avatar many, many years before the idea of Lost was conceived.
I really liked the captioned photo. Funny. IMMD.
Why do I have to sign into my google account every time I post? It's driving me mad.
ReplyDeleteAre you on a Mac using Safari with Private Browsing turned on?
I am on a Mac using Firefox - will check the settings when I get home.
ReplyDeleteI was just guessing from my own experience. Whatever browser you're using may have a similar feature, or be set to deny cookies, or something along those lines.
ReplyDeleteAli Bags: What???? no family CAT???
ReplyDelete@Rufus - Lol!, Of course there is a cat archetype but I left it off as it it wasn't relevant to Lost. Not exactly academically honest of me, I admit.
ReplyDelete@Blam: if LOST contains Shakespearian comedy, then you would need a wedding to end the show. The difference between A Midsummer Night's Dream and Romeo and Juliet is one ends in a wedding (bringing together the families--very LOST considering Boone's comment in Locke's dream, that he must bring the families together), and the other ends with the lovers dying and the families reconciled in grief. Notice, if Friar Lawrence had been a little faster, he'd have saved the day and the lovers. If LOST ends with the marriage (years later) between Ji Yeon and Aaron, then LOST would have played out like a classic romance/comedy. Considering how marriage is a theme in LOST, I say why not? Of course, most of the marriages depicted seem of a very poor quality.
ReplyDeleteThe 7 plots of all narratives. Sounds like Joseph Campbell, borrowing from Sir James Frazer "The Golden Bough." The king in the grove whom the servant/successor must kill (sound familiar). All narrative revolves around the harvest cycle--the planting of grains (comedy), the harvesting (tragedy). The other point, which Joseph Campbell recognized, is that all narratives are religious narratives involving the monomyth. Jack is undergoing a journey of the hero to gain illumination--think how far Jack has come (1) wanting off the island but seeing rescue as the option; (2) wanting off the island but seeing resetting time by exploding Jughead as the option. Jack is following Campbell's monomyth. But I'm sure Darlton won't script Jack's journey exactly according to the monomyth.
Ah ha! That's great!
ReplyDeleteI seem to have some kind of inadvertent aversion to James Cameron movies. I haven't seen Titanic, and I still haven't seen Avatar despite several attempts. Is my subconscious trying to tell me something?
ReplyDeleteTanyam
I recently read an article about, God what the hell is her name? Sarah Conner from Terminator. She's one odd duck and talks about her revenge on Cameron's new wife is that she is now the thing he desires. Anyway, the whole thing was very...disjointed.
ReplyDeleteLINDA HAMILTON! Linda Hamlin? Hammy Linda?
right?
Blam: Pfft. FIGURES it was a MAC problem Ali Bags was having. (I'm assuming humanebean isn't following these comments, right? And yet... secretly hoping he is... heehee...)
ReplyDeleteI met Linda Hamilton last year, and she was lovely. Not disjointed, so it was probably the interviewer.
ReplyDeleteShe did say she would work with Cameron in a heartbeat. Great director, lousy husband.
LINDA HAMILTON! Linda Hamlin? Hammy Linda?
ReplyDeleteClose: Marvin Hamlisch (strange but true).
Hahaha!
ReplyDelete@Nikki
ReplyDeleteI LOVE my Mac!
and today it is my PC that I have to keep signing in to!
ReplyDelete["Eh. It's not like Avatar has paramilitary jerkwads who invade the jungle for... um... Okay, but in Lost there's a some kind of special connection between the natives and where they... live... Well, the difference between the Island and Pandora is that the Island has some mysterious resource under... groun...duhhh. Hmm. Is there mystical healing going on? There is? What about people taking over other bodies? Michelle Rodriguez, even?"]
ReplyDeleteROFL!! Now I understand why "AVATAR" failed to win Best Picture. And I thought it was copying "DANCES WITH WOLVES".