Tuesday, February 22, 2011

Buffy Rewatch Week 8 Spoiler Forum

Welcome to this week's spoiler edition! I've relegated a few more comments over to this section after there was some kerfuffle on the non-spoiler boards that I'd spoiled something by teasing it. I thought I was creating anticipation, but I clearly overstepped my bounds and upset people (who, granted, admitted that they turn the channel when movie trailers come on because they consider those to be spoilers, too). So anything that ties in to the future will be here, spoilery or no. ;)

Nikki’s Spoilery Bits:
• Spike says of Buffy, “She’s the gristle in my teeth... the bloody thorn in my bloody side.” Uh, Spike? You forgot “apple of my eye.”
• Is anyone else reminded of the “I Fall to Pieces” guy when we first see Pfister the Worm Man on WML?
• First time we see Angel’s bed... THAT BED. Eek. Oh, Surprise and Innocence... I think I’m going to have my fingers over one eye in dreaded anticipation.
• Kendra says “vumpyre” the same way Andrew does.
• Buffy says, “Spike is going down!” Teehee...
• Pay attention to Oz’s “I mock you with my monkey pants!” speech, because it’s what sparks Buffy’s loopy dream in “Surprise.” Willow asks if the monkey is French, and Oz says, “All monkeys are French, didn’t you know that?” In the dream, Willow is saying, “The monkey has lost his pants” in French when Buffy walks into the Bronze.
• Jenny says, “I stayed out of mortal danger for three weeks... I could get used to it.” Um, Jenny? Don’t.
• Ted: Buffy jokes with Will that she’s supposed to use her powers for good. It’s just a joke at this point, but we’ll see what happens when Will uses her powers for evil.
• At the end of the episode, they joke that Willow could build her own robot to do things for her, which foreshadows Warren. And makes me wonder... who the HELL decided to make themselves robotic instead of just creating a wife robot?? It’s like this plot went haywire, and they fixed it on “I Was Made to Love You.”


SenexMacDonald said...

I love the differences between these two eps. However, Ted will remain the spookiest of this group and in some ways for this season and beyond. I loved Evan's write up so thank you for agreeing with me. Ted is one great ep. More on that in a bit. So let me start with What’s my line?

The key to the book... Another on-going theme - keys! It is interesting that themes are so prevalent. Not unexpected as this is Joss but I do not recall having noticed so many before. Must be the rewatch (thanks again, Nik!). LOL

I just love Spike and Dru. For what are horrible creatures of the night, they are so cute together. These two have just the right feel between them. I would hope that James and Juliet have remained good friends as they certainly have great chemistry on screen. I don't recall James ever saying that they are and, if they aren't, all I can say is that is ACTING!!

I so agree, Nik - best line is “I lurk.” The setup for Buffy's conversation with Angel is so good - no Angel in the mirror. And the two of them don't even notice it. :)

Just a quick OT not related to SMG's skating - just related to skating and actresses who play Buffy. Kristy Swanson, the movie version of Buffy, did a pro/celeb skating show (Skating with Celebrities) on tv a number of years ago where she met Canadian pairs ice skater, Lloyd Eisler with whom she started an affair and for whom Lloyd left his wife; she and Lloyd are currently married and living in LA. K? Nuff said there.

Willow - and software? How could we not see that?

I had forgotten that the impression is given that Kendra is part of the Three when she gets out of the plane. Justin... "That’s what they do, that’s all they do!" (paraphrasing Giles)

Our first look at Angel’s place. Doesn’t he later own a large house with a big balcony? Ah, the bed where … well, that is for later. Right?

I had completely forgotten that Willy runs a bar - like Lorne. Another theme? Very British - vamps have a local?

Okay, let’s try not to laugh at the accent or how Kendra says her name. Okay, let’s laugh. Justin... "that accent is horrible." We know, hon!
...to be continued...

Page48 said...

Drusilla in WML1: "He can't help you, not without(insert long pause) the key" I love The Key.

Buffy's not the only Summers girl who can handle herself on skates.

Kitten: a term of endearment also used by Lorne

In "Ted", did Buffy's slayer-senses warn her off of eating Ted's excellent cooking or did she just hate the guy that much?

Joyce lied to the police this week. Giles lied to them last week. Snyder has the police lie to the public. Where's the trust in Sunnydale?

Buffy on Ice reminded me of Sydney Bristow on ice. I never had a whole arena to myself when I was that age (any age).

Spike, already the slayer of 2 slayers was going to let Patrice kill Buffy when she was standing just a fang's length away from him?

Was that Ted's cast-iron skillet that Buffy used to K-O him? No room for compromise there.

In WML1, Oz rocks the NY Islanders shirt previously worn in "Inca Mummy Girl". Islanders fans born in California can likely be counted on 1 hand.

Tom D. said...

Hey Nikki, I have one little favor to ask -- tag this post as "Buffy Rewatch Spoiler Forum" (as you have done with previous posts). Makes it easier for me to come back to it later and read all the insightful comments. Thank you for doing this awesome Buffy rewatch!

SenexMacDonald said...

...there's more? Of course there is!

I always assumed that the area that Angel is locked in is in fact a storage area. Since it is under the bar, one can't help asking - why is there so little of anything in Willy’s stock room? I would think it would be perfect for storing the alcohol as it can be locked. Justin... maybe it’s delivery day.

If that is so, then for a bar, there is not a lot of remaining stock on hand which would have been perfect for hiding behind. Sorry, Angel.

Spike's response to Willy's question of "what you going to do with him?" Great line! "I was thinking maybe diner and a movie."

Loved how Jonathan was just pulled out of, what looked like, nowhere and being taken hostage … for a moment.

Reference to the praying mantis lady.

Buffy - Spike is going down. Not now and not by your hand, honey.

Dru is back! Love when she picks up Spike by the arm from the wreckage. Good turn around re. the two of them. Now things start to get delicious! :)

Love this ep if for nothing more than seeing ‘Jack Tripper’ once more. John Ritter is sorely missed and he played this part so well.

Quick thoughts: Willow’s squeee re. the software update is so funny! Buffy - I’m okay and then goes out and beats the crap out of vampires. Poor Giles - as he waits for Buffy as she does this. I always wanted Giles to say something like "Buffy, please stop teasing the vamps!"

This ep had lots of foreshadowing of what Ted was. "I’m not wired that way." Oh, he is wired for sure. LOL John Ritter brings such a deliciousness to his evil.

Okay, stupid question time again. Why is the flyer for Teacher Appreciation Night up on the fridge? Since it has come and gone (didn't Buffy not give it to Joyce in the first place?), shouldn’t it be in the g-file? Or recycling, if they were doing it at that point?

Loved(!) Buffy sitting on the swing alone. Not even the vamps want to play with Buffy.

Nice balance between Giles and Jenny fighting the vamp and Ted fighting Buffy.

Ted = creepy!! And so this remains one of my favourite eps of season 2. :)

Anonymous said...

I continue with my spoilery comments:

Angel has a Chinese statue - did he pick it up during the Boxer rebellion?

I've noticed that Angel always calls Spike 'Spoik'. Like he's trying to do a little Irish accent. Or maybe he's getting back at Spike for mispronouncing Angelus.

Willow has the line "Is that even possible? Two Slayers at the same time?" She's the one who will activate the Potentials in season 7.

Kendra says a very dark power is rising. Does she mean Angelus?

Spike says to Buffy "I'd rather be fighting you." Buffy "Mutual". Foreshadowing for their dance?

Spike picks up Dru twice in the episode the way she will pick him up at the end. They've reversed positions and he is now the vulnerable one. He'll also become a more sympathetic character by being physically afflicted and cuckolded.

When Buffy is upset by her mother's relationship she tortures a vampire. She's using him. She does that sort of thing.

Buffy's suspicion of Ted is similar to her reaction to her season four college roomie.

Xander bonds with Ted the way he will later bond with Riley. He hasn't had a guy friend since Jessie.

Ted tells Buffy he'll put her in a mental institution. That will come up in Normal Again. Though you think she would react differently if she'd already been in one for the same reason.

Sunnydale seems to be a breeding ground for misogynistic robot builders. Are Ted and Warren related? (not to mention the demon in I Robot.)

Willow saves robot parts. It's practically a hobby. And she's supposed to use her powers for good. Now THERE'S foreshadowing. :)

Dusk said...

Here's something I'm confused about:

I know Buffy's not in the Slayer line anymore and the proper girl is now Kendra, eventually Faith.

Slayers can kill 100s, 1000s of vamps according to Spike in "Fool For Love" if I remember correctly, And Buffy never travels really, so I'm assuming they all come from the same hellmouth. And their is multiple refrences to the Clevland hellmouth, so I'm assuming theirs multiple around the world.

In the Wishverse Sunnydale is over-run with vamps.

So why isn't their greater activity in the other towns with hellmouths but no Slayer? I mean, what do they do? The Slayer can't be everywhere, but shouldn't their be more...notice I guess?

Watchers Council is supposed to be global but they have the fighting skill as brain-sucked Tara.

Is this ever touched on?

Anonymous said...

Spike is going down. Not now and not by your hand, honey.

I could say something about season 6. Is this a family board? ;)

Tom D. said...

Senex said: Ted will remain the spookiest of this group and in some ways for this season and beyond.

Man, do I ever agree with that. Ted creeps me out like no other Buffy villain. I kind of feel like he should be on some other show -- Dexter comes to mind. He poses such a dire, insidious, immediate threat: he's going to take over Buffy's home and her life and destroy her relationship with her mother.

I guess for that reason, I've never quite been on board with Buffy's remorse when she thinks she has killed him. I mean, OK, it would be a pretty shocking experience for her, to have accidentally killed a guy -- but after the stuff he said to her, I'd have had no problem with her killing him in the most intentional way possible.

However, I don't blame Joyce for her role in the whole thing -- not even the scene where she denies that Ted threatened Buffy. I mean, the lady was on some serious drugs at the time, due to Ted's cooking. Plus, Ted still seemed like a good citizen at the time, whereas Buffy seemed like a bit of a delinquent. I can see why Joyce could disbelieve Buffy under those circumstances without being a completely terrible person.

I like the random moment when Willow laughs at the phrase "clean clown" and then, off Buffy and Xander's reaction, "I have my own fun." The whole funny/pathetic/cute early-Willow thing -- which we will be seeing less of in the future, as Willow starts dating a guitarist and dabbling in magic and being less of a spaz.

I like the use of fight scenes to convey emotion: the vampire fight near the beginning where Buffy is unnecessarily whaling on him; the three fights between Buffy and Ted, each of which is pretty brutal; and the Jenny/Giles/vampire fight which sets the mood for their rekindled romance.

Tom D. said...

The two parts of What's My Line are good in some ways, but frustratingly bad in others. While rewatching, I got quite annoyed by the multitude of plot holes -- which I will not list here because I'd rather talk about other aspects of the show.

On Kendra's accent -- if I recall correctly, that's actually an authentic accent from some part of Jamaica which Bianca Lawson learned in order to play Kendra. I don't mind that the accent sounds weird -- and I like the fact that the show acknowledges the existence of heroes from places where people look different and talk funny -- but it seems to me that Bianca Lawson is so busy doing the accent that she doesn't really bring any subtlety or nuance or detail to the portrayal of Kendra.

These episodes are the first time we see Angel's basement apartment since the episode "Angel" in Season 1. The place looked a lot more bare back then. Angel's really done some decorating -- there's a lot of stuff on the walls. Perhaps this reflects Angel becoming less isolated, more in touch with humanity, as he gets closer to Buffy?

And we see Willie the Snitch and his demon bar for the first time. A lot of fun stuff happens in demon bars in the Buffyverse. Nice to see that theme get started.

It would have been fun to have Willie's back-story explained at some point: why is this greasy little human dude running a bar for demons on a hellmouth? I would have liked to see that episode.

I'm probably the only one who thinks this, but I thought Buffy looked pretty great in that plaid shirt -- not homeless-looking at all, just kind of casual and tough. Better than Kendra's shiny little costume. I admit the overalls in Ted were awful though.

Oh, and the "I mock you with my monkey pants" scene: indescribably adorable. I love it so very much.

Unknown said...

The biggest surprise for me in these episodes is that I think I actually like Angel:) He's quite the hero when he tries to get Spike to kill him rather than be used in the revivification ritual, and gets to be snarky with Spike, which makes him less chump-y. Also, in Ted, he doesn't just agree with Buffy to make her happy but listens and gives her honest feedback. Now that I'm sold on them as a couple, I think I know what Joss will do--tear my heart out and stomp on it:(

In "What's My Line" I and II, Buffy gets a glimpse of how easy she actually has it by meeting Kendra. Buffy has her mom, school, the scooby gang. This reminds me of how I used to think I had the strictest, meanest parents in the world, and then I read some articles with that Tiger Mom. Later, we see Buffy act in the same jealous manner with Faith, not realizing Faith or Kendra might have reason to envy Buffy herself.

I love how Xander really does have a thing for Slayers:)

Kendra--I always imagined she lived in another hot spot for vampiric and demonic activity (not Cleveland) and yeah, if her watcher can sense a dark power rising, how come Giles can't?

Speaking of Ted's threats about Buffy's mental state, and "Normal Again", at the mall, when she tells her mom what she was really doing (instead of picking up the clothes from Everyday Woman), how come Joyce didn't freak out? (ohnos my daughter is talking crazy vampire talk again, time to get her back on the meds ASAP?)

redeem147 I am also wondering if Ted's technology got passed to Warren somehow. That would explain how Warren was able to do it so quickly, if he had a head start.

Tom D.-you are right about Ted's threat level. Buffy is always in mortal danger from the creepy crawlies, but to have what we think is just a normal human threaten her safety net of friends, family, and home, is just terrifying on a totally different level.

I have been re-watching on Netflix but on the discs the commentary for What's My Line has something about the accent--Tom D. I think you're right, that it was a particular accent the director or someone was trying to get her to do--but really became a distraction, and the person doing the commentary basically said, yeah, it was a big mistake.

I thought Willie was at least part demon?

On the DVD commentaries there is also something about Angel's apartment. The decision was made to make it very Zen as a reflection of his sort of spartan existence mixed with his whole soul-having thing. So the Chinese/Asian influence in his home decor is a deliberate choice.

In "Ted" the police note Buffy doesn't have any bruises. On the DVD commentary at one point someone says, yeah, we did that whole "slayers and vampires heal fast" thing to not worry too much about makeup/continuity/budget costs from week to week?

If someone is misogynistic in the Buffyverse, we know they are 100% evil.

Super sorry this is so long!

Anonymous said...

It made me chuckle to wonder how sensitive to sun Angel must be - when he's in the cage, he sees the sun from a far and gets all hot and bothered, but later in the series, when Spike walks around with his blanket, he just gets a bit smoky. What a tender soul Angel must be.

Hazel said...

I think Kendra's accent bothers people so much because it is broad but it wasn't the worse I heard on Buffy: Spike's is pretty awful the first few appearances while Drusilla's is dreadful and as for Liam...but the worst was Molly in S7 - now, that was bad.

Austin Gorton said...

"Ted" has its faults (chief amongst them that the notion of Buffy's power accidentally harming an innocent is an idea that is probably bigger than an episode featuring a killer robot John Ritter can contain, let alone address and resolve in forty odd minutes) and is by no means as epic as some of season two's other eps (including "What's My Line?") but I still have a soft spot for it, because, well, killer robot John Ritter.

I mean, getting John Ritter period is great, making him a killer robot is just icing on the cake.

Great write-up Evan, I really enjoyed it.

SenexMacDonald said...

@redeem147 said..."Spike is going down. Not now and not by your hand, honey.
I could say something about season 6. Is this a family board? ;)"

Nikki, can we get a call on this, please? If this a spoiler zone - what is the cut off line re. adult situations in our comments?

SenexMacDonald said...

@Tom D. said..."Ted ... poses such a dire, insidious, immediate threat: he's going to take over Buffy's home and her life and destroy her relationship with her mother.

I guess for that reason, I've never quite been on board with Buffy's remorse when she thinks she has killed him."

I think this works well re. Buffy's feelings of killing Ted, when we see Faith's reaction after also killing Allan Finch, the Deputy Mayor in Bad Girls (season 3).

I am sure that is why Buffy reacts the way she does to Faith. She has been through this (even if Ted did turn out to the be evil robot from Hell(mouth). She can't understand how Faith is feeling, even if the person who dies is affiliated with an even greater evil. That there is no regret on Faith's part.

I think that moment is when Buffy realizes that she and Faith may be Slayers but they are far apart on everything else.

Tom D. said...

EBeth said: If someone is misogynistic in the Buffyverse, we know they are 100% evil.

This is a funny and mostly-true observation -- Warren and Caleb being the other major examples of evil misogynists, I guess. I've been trying to think of a counterexample, out of curiosity. I think Larry qualifies as one. Consider the way he talks about Buffy to Xander in Halloween -- crude, treating her like a mere sex object. But he ends up being a decent guy, and even heroic in the "Wish" universe.

Anonymous said...

Senex, I was kidding. :) I said all I was going to say. ;)