Tuesday, August 16, 2011

Buffy Rewatch Week 33: Spoiler Forum

As always, here is where you can talk about this week's Buffy episodes (and Angel!) without fear of spoilage.

So... how strange was it this week to notice the first Scoob April walks up to and asks about Warren is none other than Tara? :::shudder::: Just seeing Warren made me think of what he'll do in Season 6...


Colleen/redeem147 said...

I've noticed that when other people mock Anya for her bluntness, Buffy often points out that she's right.

Dawn asks Spike to come with her to steal stuff. She'll soon be quite good at it on her own.

Buffy mentions that she and Dawn must be sisters because of the annoyance factor - which she will point out again in Tabula Rasa.

I've read many places that Fury called Spike a serial killer (so what does that make Angel?) but later, when Spike gets his soul, Fury says that Spike's more moral than Angel because he wanted it.

Buffy sits in the dead person's outline on the train. Foreshadowing?

Buffy says 'ew' - but she will go out drinking with Spike and he will get more than crumbs.

Spike's chip was the catalyst - but I think his love for Buffy was the thing that started to change him (and went beyond just Buffy even without the soul.)

Ironically, Spike says he's 'done the whole LA scene - didn't agree with me' - but he'll be back.

Spike is very misguided in proving his love to Buffy with the Dru capture - but will learn how to do it better in Intervention. It is darker before the ...

Lisa(until further notice) said...

I also get the chills thinking about what Glory will do to Tara. Willow and Tara are about to suffer a great deal from the "Big Bads"

Unknown said...

The only spoilery thing I had to mention was about Angel. I haven't rewatched ever, and it's been a very long time since my initial watching. I really never loved it the same way, mainly because Broody Angel annoys me and the show is sort of about him,and they give us these new characters and then ruin them in the most terrible manner, particularly the women.

Anyway, I had forgotten why Angel was acting like such an A$$ in recent episodes. I kept thinking that Wolfram & Hart were spiking his blood with human stuff, thus provoking an evilish bloodlust.

This week I remembered, no, that's yet a different time he goes semi evil and acts like an A&&. This time it's just because he has "issues". All of which are worked out by violently copulating with and then callously discarding the source of those issues?

For some reason this bothers me more than him letting the lawyers get bitten. I mean, they WERE evil lawyers. And even if Darla is evil, that doesn't mean Angel gets to treat her like the prostitute she used to be, even roughing her up like a pimp. I mean, that just makes him look like a jerk. She's an evil vamp. He's supposed to be a champion. Which then brings up the whole Season 6 Spike and Buffy thing, only in gender reverse? Sigh.

Quarks said...

Another good week of 'Buffy' episodes, before we move on to the height of the season, if not the series. Personally, this one of the seasons where I am able to discern fairly well what happens in each episode (except around some of the earlier ones), while in Season 7 I find it much harder. I know what happens overall in that season, but if you asked what happened specifically in 'Never Leave Me' or 'Bring On The Night' or 'Showtime', for example, I couldn't tell you. That is in fact one of the big problems I have with that season, that it feels to me to be entirely focused on the single 'First' plotline with little else going on. But I digress.

'Blood Ties':

This is probably my favourite episode of the three this week. Personally, I am never that big a fan of the audience knowing something and the characters not, so I'm glad that the truth about Dawn is finally out. I don't mind it when the audience is just as clueless as the characters (I'm used to that from 'Lost'), but when we know something and the characters don't I spend all the time waiting for everybody to find out, instead of enjoying it. Of course, that's not so bad on the rewatch, because I know when everybody discovers the truth and I can enjoy the episodes for what they are.

By this point in the show, the writers have clearly caught up to Dawn being 14 instead of whatever age they originally planned. She is still kind of annoying and whiny, but she does have a lot to whine about. And she will only get more in the coming episodes. But I do still have a certain affection for Dawn. Perhaps it's because I know how much better she will be in Seasons 7 and 8, but I can't help sympathising with her.

I always feel bad when we see Tara's scared reaction to discovering that Glory sucks brains, knowing what will happen to her in a few episodes.

Dawn mentions that she was too cheap to buy Buffy a real present. That will be a problem next birthday as well. And "Get out! Get out! GET OUT!" will make a reappearance than as well.

Quarks said...



A decent episode, 'Crush' focuses once again on the feelings Spike has for Buffy, and this time Buffy realises just how obsessed he is with her. Spike has essentially become her stalker: lurking outside her house, stealing her clothes, creating a 'shrine' for her etc. In 'Seeing Red' next season, Spike tries to rape Buffy and if we look at Spike's actions so far this season, it is relatively believable that he would do something like that. Having said that, it is in many ways his obsession, and love for Buffy that ends up saving the day in 'Chosen'. Spike does definitely love Buffy, but the question is: does Buffy love Spike? And after 8 seasons of Buffy, and 5 of Angel, I still couldn't tell you the answer.

It is also interesting to note the similarities even now between Angel and Spike. Spike's obsession with Buffy here reminds me of Angelus's obsession with her back in Season 2. And here, Spike offers to do exactly the same thing as Angel did: kill the woman who sired him and who he 'dated' for many years, for Buffy.

The conversation between Tara and Willow about Quasimodo is interesting not only because it is fairly obviously a metaphor for Buffy and Spike's relationship, but also because it reminds me of the argument they have in 'Tabula Rasa', after Tara finds out that Willow altered her memory.

'I Was Made to Love You':

'I Was Made to Love You' is a fairly enjoyable stand alone episode, but watching it now I can't help but see Warren as 'the guy who killed Tara'. Not to mention the fact that in 'Dead Things' Warren will kill Katrina. Quite a few of the Big Bads in 'Buffy' are sexist and misogynistic, and Warren more than the rest of the Trio fits this perfectly (I always find the line "Crying is blackmail. Good girlfriends don't cry." shows this particularly well). Caleb was also very much like this, and in many ways so is Angelus. He would target young girls more than any others it seems, like Buffy, Drusilla and the Kalderash girl.

How does 'The Bronze' stay in business? Aside from the fact that it must have to constantly pay to be repaired, you would think that after the first few vampire attacks, and troll attacks, and murders of other kinds, people would start to get a little apprehensive about going there.

The ending then leads directly into next week's episode, which is quite possibly the best episode of 'Buffy' ever. I can't wait.

Efthymia said...

Who would have thought that the robot-making sleazebag would turn out to be the probably evilest villain in the Buffyverse (because he's simply human)? He's one of my most hated fictional characters EVER!

"I really never loved it the same way, mainly because Broody Angel annoys me and the show is sort of about him,and they give us these new characters and then ruin them in the most terrible manner, particularly the women." - YES! My feelings exactly! So happy to see someone agreeing with me...

Dusk said...

I'll ask the vetrans here, but what was the general reaction when they started pushing Cangel? And then later on? before the giant mistake of Jasmine-Cordellia and Connor, I mean. Lucky I had a heads up about it not really being Cordy going in.

I thought Jate/Skate/Jacket/Suliet was bad, but this one has been going on for more then decade in more then one medium.

Colleen/redeem147 said...

I'll ask the vetrans here, but what was the general reaction when they started pushing Cangel?

I love them together. I always did, and I was so excited to realize Angel's feelings when they were in Pylea (though on rewatching I can see it going back further.) Most of my friends liked it, but most of my friends were Spuffies. The many who can't stand Angel (not me) didn't really care.

Salty goodness!

Austin Gorton said...

@Dusk: I'll ask the vetrans here, but what was the general reaction when they started pushing Cangel?

Personally, I was always fairly indifferent to it. It didn't quite work for me, partially because putting your male lead and your female lead together romantically just seemed too easy and obvious for the Angel crew, but mainly because I thought, what with all the ascension/Jasmine/Connor, we missed the middle portion of their relationship. It went from "I think I'm in love with Cordelia" to "OMG I AM SO IN LOVE WITH HER AND IT TEARS ME APART THAT ALL THESE BAD THINGS ARE HAPPENING TO HER" without a whole lot of "yes, we are in love, and that's nice, and I hope we stay together" moments. Basically, it was like two people deciding to be in a relationship and then breaking up, without every being in a relationship.

Where was I? Oh, right. So personally, their relationship didn't really work for me, but I wasn't opposed to or outraged by it. But I seem to recall A LOT of people at the time getting all upset about it. Lots Bangels who thought Angel was betraying Buffy, etc. and TV critic types (and some early bloggers) who thought it was forced/didn't see the chemistry. That's my recollection, at least.

Dusk said...

I can see how it would seem out of order, as the whole plot point of the soul time bomb is a major element of Angel, keping them from going into the middle portion. (Although that episode where he just lies with Cordellia and infant Connor would seem pretty close to perfect happiness.

And I don't think the writers would have considered some mystical plot device to keep his soul, as it was the biggest reason Bangel can't work, and the reasoning "Buffy can have a normal life without Angel" is moot after Season 5. And the technical fact having two shows is better then one, so they can't have one title character join the other show, so any long-term Bangel was impossible after Season 3 of Buffy.

I don't know the exact dates here, but I don't think Angel start dating Nina until after the got the cancellation announcement, am I right? I guess the writers thought the before the show ends, give the lead some romance other then his Darla Despair and Cut Off From Cordy love angles.

Colleen/redeem147 said...

Angel met Nina before the cancellation and there was some good chemistry and flirting, so I think that was in the works anyway.

Missy said...

I remember hearing that Nina was there to end the discussion about who and what can make Angel lose his soul.