Wednesday, February 11, 2009

Lost 5.05: This Place Is Death

Christian: “And since when did listening to [Ben] get you anywhere worth a damn?”

Heeeeee’s back!
Ah, Smokey. How I missed ya. Once again, Damon’s statement that whenever we see Smokey we’ll learn something more about him rings true. This time we actually see some sort of hiding place. I’m thinking it’s under the Temple where Alpert and the Others had been heading at the end of season 3 (and throughout season 4... come to think of it, it’s taking them an AWFULLY long time to get there). After Montand got pulled down, Smokey clearly mimicked his voice to draw the others down there and “change” them. Were they all killed below the Temple? Did Smokey create various manifestations of them to send back up? How is he choosing the ones to attack?

Rousseau’s backstory
Now we know how Montand lost his arm; what the “sickness” was; and why she deemed the smoke monster a security system on the island. The interesting thing is, she got that last tidbit of information from Zombie Richard, so was it reliable in any way? For a moment there after Nadine went missing, I wondered if Jin was going to suggest she was taken by the Others, and give Rousseau the very term that she gave back to them, creating a chicken and egg problem. The area where all the bad things happen to the team is what Rousseau later deems the dark Territory.

Charlotte’s past
Are there any inconsistencies with Charlotte’s backstory? She says she was on the island as a child, and then moved away. Last season we found out she was born in 1979. If she moved away when she was 7 or 8, it would have been in the late 1980s... around the same time Rousseau landed on the island. Ben killed his father in 1992, the date of the Purge. He came to the island in the early 1970s and lived there from that point on, so he would have had some memory of Charlotte, even if she’d just been a child. Why didn’t he say anything about that last season, and instead let on like he believed her backstory, that she’d been born in Essex, England? Season 5 opened with Pierre Chang putting on “Shotgun Willie” by Willie Nelson, a song from a 1973 album. So it couldn’t have been before that, but it could have been after that. The clothing he’s wearing suggests it’s still early 70s. We see them constructing the Orchid, because he goes down into it and passes by Daniel. SO... how did Charlotte know about the well? If she was born in 1979, but the Orchid had been built and the well destroyed in the early 70s, how could she have known about it?

I love the idea that Daniel tried to warn her. I’m thinking future Daniel (as in a Daniel 5 years or months or weeks older than the Daniel we know right now) will decide to go back in time and try to warn her, effectively trying to change history, the very thing he’s said they can’t do. Problem is, he can’t do that. Charlotte will always want to return to the island, and there’s nothing he can do to stop her.

Highlights:
• Sawyer telling Jin to turn around. Yay!
• Jin telling Charlotte to translate, and Sawyer thinking he means Miles. “You heard the man... TRANSLATE!” “Uh... he’s Korean. I’m from Encino.” HAHAHA!!
• Dan: “So... you speak any other languages?” Charlotte: “Just Klingon.”
• Sun: “You said we’d be there in 30 minutes.” Ben: “I didn’t account for traffic.”
• Ben’s outburst. Listening to holier-than-thou Jack and angrier-than-thou Sun would have been too much for anyone. His anger was so believable, I truly believe that he really has been keeping them safe from Widmore, even if he’s using them in his wascally weaselly way.
• Juliet jinxing their situation by showing her surprise that they’d end up in the same time as the Orchid station. Sawyer: “You just HAD to say something.”
• I loved the look on Locke’s face when Juliet thanks him for helping them. Could this be the first time someone has acknowledged that Locke is actually trying to help others? A lifetime of stupid mistakes and bad decisions flashes across his face as she offers her words of appreciation, and while it’s a quick moment, it was a huge one for him.
• I was never a huge fan of Charlotte (sorry, Brian), but her death scene was very, very sad. I’m happy knowing that, like Eko, her last conscious thought was a happy one from her childhood.
• Christian: “Say hello to my son.” Locke: “Who’s your son?!” Bloop.

Hurley’s Numbers:
Rousseau’s team left Tahiti on November 15. You hear the numbers being broadcast on Montand’s radio again (the same numbers that drew them too close to the island and caused the crash in the first place).

Did You Notice?:
• Between Montand’s arm and Locke’s leg, I’m thinking this is the goriest episode ever.
• We finally saw Ji Yeon. There’d been some speculation on the blog a few weeks ago about why we hadn’t seen her yet, but it looks like it was nothing more than there wasn’t a place for her yet.
• As Sun approaches Ben and company at the marina, she walks by a boat called the Illusion.
• Rousseau is wearing the same grey sweater we later see her wearing on the island. Though it’s a little more threadbare, it seems to have stood the test of time very well.
• Brennan carries an instrument case on his back through the jungle, just like Charlie carried his guitar case with him.
• Smokey stands up like a cobra in front of Montand before attacking him. When it grabs him, it appears to have two arms and a head. It still has that sound of the chain pulling a rollercoaster uphill.
• The Temple is covered in hieroglyphics, some of them the same as the red symbols that appeared in the Swan station when the countdown clock reached zero.
• Jin sees a plume of smoke in the distance. Rousseau had told Sayid that she’d seen a plume of smoke right before some people came and took her baby. Interestingly, this time the smoke is actually from her camp.
• Jin picks up the ballerina music box on the beach, the same one that Sayid will later fix for Rousseau when she’s holding him captive in “Solitary.”
• Danielle is a helluva shot.
• Poor Ben. He had five of the Oceanic 6, and lost Hurley. Then he was back up to five with Sun showing up, and suddenly he was down to two. Bummer.
• The river that Sawyer and Locke and everyone was following got really muddy and murky, as if there’d been a huge rainfall in the area.
• Charlotte keeps flipping back to her childhood and talking like a little girl, just like Theresa kept talking like a little girl, according to her sister.
• Charlotte loves Geronimo Jackson. Maybe they were the U2 of the Dharma Initiative. (And no, they’re not real, despite what Darlton have said.)
• You know, I’ve often wondered if Locke made some mistake about letting Ben turn the wheel. Eek.
• Christian refers to Locke having to die as a “sacrifice,” and there’s a moment where Locke suddenly realizes that he was a little flippant about the island demanding Boone as its sacrifice. Now it wants him. D’oh.
• The church where Hawking is looks exactly like the one they used for Christian’s memorial service.
• When Desmond says, “Are you looking for Faraday’s mother, too?” the look on Ben’s face suggests he has NO IDEA she’s any relation to him.
• Desmond totally knows who Hawking is the moment he sees her.

So Many Questions...
• What did Sun mean when she told Ji Yeon that she found a friend for her in America? Did she mean when Ji Yeon visited America? Or that she was planning on bringing him home?
• Jin say he knows where the radio tower is, but did he ever actually see it? He stayed behind on the beach when the rest of the people went over to it.
• I know this was asked last week, but why does Rousseau have no recollection of Jin when she first sees him?
• What happened to Robert, Lacombe, and Brennan? Are they zombie versions of themselves? Are they themselves but the smoke monster has gotten to them? Are they manifestations of the island? Are they really sick like Danielle thought they were? If they’re manifestations, then how could they die?
• Why did Robert’s gun not shoot? Did Rousseau remove the bullets from it, or did it jam the same way Michael’s did in “Meet Kevin Johnson”? Did the island need to keep Rousseau alive so Alex could be born?
• Charlotte reveals that she was on the island, and is now dying because she came back. Does that mean if the Oceanic Six returns to the island, they’ll all die, too? Why does the island not want Charlotte there?
• Until now, whenever Locke says “I give you my word,” he means it. But he looks right at Jin and tells him he promises not to bring Sun back. Does he mean it? I think he knows he has to bring her back one way or the other (notice he doesn’t give Sun the ring and tell her the lie Jin wants her to hear) and this might be the first time we see Locke willingly lie to someone.
• Is there a deeper meaning to Locke breaking his legs before leaving the island? Is he simply not meant to walk off the island?
• Just two episodes ago, Ms. Hawking suggests that if Ben doesn’t get EVERYONE to her immediately, “God help us all...” [Music swells, terror sets in....] And now she’s more like, “Jolly good, pip pip, let’s all to the batcaves!” Huh?



Next week:


UPDATE: My DocArzt post is now up. I removed the cheekiness. Let's hope I don't get called stupid over there again this week. ;) Thanks to Chuck Power for the quote!

120 comments:

Amsted said...

I love this show!! Great re-cap! What was the name of the old ship that was in the middle of the island with the old dynamite? For some reason I was thinking it was Charlotte?

Anonymous said...

Why does anyone trust Ben? Why, why, why! Don't these people learn the first time!

Hunter said...

The reason Robert's gun didn't shoot is because Rousseau removed the firing pin. She does the same thing to Sayid in Season 1 and says "Robert didn't notice that I'd removed the firing pin either."

Brian Douglas said...

I kind of wish we would have seen more of Danielle between the two moments Jin witnessed. What exactly did Smokey do to her crew?

Poor Charlotte gets no love, but I doubt we've seen the last of her.

Amsted said...

Never mind, it was the Black Rock. The Charlotte was the name of the ship in the Nic Cage movie National Treasure.

Still would love to hear the story behind this ship being on the island....

lefty said...

don't we see a Geronimo Jackson poster in high school locke's locker?

Benny said...

Smokey: I think it's credible to consider the security system theory mentioned by Robert. Even if he has the intention to kill Danielle (he pulled the trigger), this could be the security system in effect!

Charlotte could have been living under a different name or in a different area of DHARMA (although there only is one set of barracks). There is definitely more to this backstory but I don't think it means inconsistencies. For all we know Charlotte was called Annie when she was younger! As for the well, someone else (like Daniel again) could have told her. Notice how she was saying bits as if she was continuously jumping?

Finally, I never really thought there was anything wrong with the Ji Yeon idea!

Sawyer begins to bleed as well. I could understand Jin not bleeding yet since he was unconscious when the first few shifts happened. And Locke, well I guess we'll never know if he would have started.

I actually liked when Jin started questioning Locke, saying "How do you know?" Locke had to think before saying "I just know", which would have not convinced me!

I actually enjoyed Sawyer still holding on to the rope, thinking it was being pulled down when it was in fact in the dirt.

In that Ben manipulating people kind of way, I really liked his answer when Jack reminded him he'd said Locke never went to see him and Ben shot back with "I went to see him!"

To answer questions:
The radio tower: I think Jin, Sayid and Bernard were told where the tower was because they had stayed behind and would have had to get there on their own. When waiting in Season 3, Jack said "They had no idea we were waiting for them".

Rousseau/Jin: I'm on that one too, I'm pretty sure you'd remember a disappearing/reappearing Korean guy who knows about a 'monster'! More to come hopefully!

French crew: I think that there's more to them than we've seen yet. They were the first ones that we know of who went into the Temple/ruins. This could have had a significant impact on them that we don't know of yet.

O6 maybe dying: to save the island and everyone, they have to come back. Either it's a mass-sacrifice or some people have to come back while others can't. I think that it's being on the island for an extended period of time AND going through the shifts. If those jumps hadn't happened, I believe Charlotte would have been fine, despite returning to the island.

My own big question, which I hope will be answered next week is: What has happened to the island now that Locke himself replaced the Dharmacakra? Did the island stop jumping in time? And consider that there is still three years difference between when that happened and the O6 timeline. One of my suggestions is that the island stuck itself to the time it was in, which would be somewhere in the past and would help explain Daniel's presence in the island during the construction of the Orchid and him talking to young Charlotte.

More to come after another viewing!

fb said...

aha! now i figured out charlotte's purpose ... she was there to translate for jin! haha. i still can't stand her character and i actually cackled with glee when she died, because FINALLY someone i DIDN'T like died instead of all the characters i love that keep getting killed off (mr eko, charlie, rousseau).

speaking of rousseau, i loved the continuity with her sweater and also the music box (i remembered it the minute i saw it on the beach! although, kind of a random thing to have in a rescue craft, no?). and i take back what i said last week: between the wild hair, the posture and the expressions on her face, i totally believe that the rousseau we saw tonight could evolve into the rousseau we know and love from season 1. also? did anyone else notice that not only robert but pretty much ALL the men she was travelling with were pretty hot, or was that just my own shallowness noticing? ;)

i had an urgent phone call halfway through the episode that i absolutely had to take, so i missed the charlotte/geronimo jackson comment and her little backstory about being on the island as a child. not entirely convinced she's annie, though.

and i agree about eloise being a little too chipper and cheerful about getting down to business when she was all sinister and threatening a couple of episodes ago. huh?

also, i noticed ben's face when the comment was made about eloise being faraday's mother -- you're absolutely right, nikki, he had no idea whatsoever.

and for the record, i just wanted to say that i absolutely love fionnula flannigan's name. heh. ;)

Anonymous said...

Interesting Charlotte stating she knows more about Carthage than Hannibal. Nice tie in with Ben in Tunisia. Obviously more story there.

Genevieve said...

Nikki, LOVE your blog and checking it is one of the first things I do after every episode. How the HELL do you remember all those details? You remember EVERYTHING! Like the ballerina Sayid fixed for Rousseau--what the heck? I have no idea what you're talking about; the first thing I thought of was Sun's flashback, "The Glass Ballerina." I don't know how you do it, but dang, girl--you ROCK!

Blam said...

I finally warmed up to Charlotte... about 10 minutes before she bought it. Sigh.

I still think young Rousseau looks about 16.

Your fave lines and moments were mine, too, Nikki, especially "I'm from Encino," "Just Klingon," and "Who's your son?!?" (Nice to know they're keeping track of continuity.) And many of your questions are also mine. It seems like this place is rubbing off on me — I even found Desmond particularly handsome this episode. 8^)

Thank you for reminding me where the music box came from!

Jin's English got a lot better just during the course of this episode, between talking to Rousseau's crew and getting heated with Locke at the well. I always thought the island had something to do with him picking up the language fast, if only as a meta-explanation for plot's or practicality's sake, but this seemed like a big jump.

"Charlotte keeps flipping back to her childhood and talking like a little girl, just like Theresa kept talking like a little girl, according to her sister." — And that's how Desmond must have sounded on the freighter when we viewers saw him in flashback during this time trips. I was wondering when the nose-bleeders, especially Charlotte in such an advanced state, would start speaking as if in other times.

If Locke's pulling the wheel back on track fixes the island's time skipping, then:
(A) Daniel is definitely going to have to end up back in '70s and '80s Dharmaville to meet Chang and then Charlotte in a completely separate fashion, presumably for longer periods of time than the skips usually provided — maybe the island even ends up back then after Locke moves it.
(B) It wasn't the Oceanic 6 leaving the island that's doing this, as I think Richard said and thus Locke believes, but only Ben turning the wheel and it not setting right instead of Locke turning it, so the return of the other Castaways may not be necessary — and either Richard just doesn't know this or he wants Locke to get them to return for his own, perhaps ultimately nefarious, purposes.

I enjoyed hearing explicitly that Locke was always supposed to have moved the island himself, and the fact that the wheel was off its track was a perfect literal metaphor, for lack of a better phrase, about what happened to the island as a result. We deserve some actual explanations now and then.

You really have to feel for Locke in the subtle but triumphant moment when Christian tells him, "I believe in you, John. You can do it." This is after a lifetime of "Don't tell me what I can't do!"

I almost used qualifiers after Christian's name above, to indicate that he might be an aspect of Jacob or the island personified or somesuch, but didn't when I remembered he said "Say hello to my son," so he must really be Christian in some form. Unless he's not and he didn't mean Jack, but Aaron — I don't really think so, but once again the writers have me overanalyzing.

Gary said...

Loved the episode! Though there was so much info to digest. My favorite moment was Ben going off on Jack and Sun. I've always wanted to believe in Ben and it kinda felt good to hear him let em have it. I hope they start listening to him now! He's trying to help.

The implication from Rousseau's experience was that smokey "changed" her crew. I wonder if that is how the "others" become "others" ( learning Latin for instance)

great episode!

Ali Bags said...

@ BLam 'I even found Desmond particularly handsome this episode.' Desmond, bless him, gets more handsome every episode. He started off as a hairy hermit and he's now a total Hottie!

I can't help myself and i know it's not important but where did Christian get his clothes from? When he first appeared he was in a black suit and white trainers (sneakers for you yanks)

Sawyer is NOT the Sawyer he once was - yanking on that rope for all his worth.Getting rid of the real Sawyer seems to have turned him into an all-action, ready-to-help-his-comrades hero. And where are the nicknames? I miss them.

The look on Jack's face when he said to Ben 'You said John never came to see you' and Ben replied 'I went to see him' When is Jack going to get it????? He's more gullible than me, and that's saying something.

The whole arm thing made me laugh so much - there I was waiting to see how Montand lost his arm and wondering how he survived with no medical help and they turned it all upside down and it was the arm that survived and not Montand!!!
So funny, in a sick way.

SonshineMusic said...

Amazing episode. Some answers, more questions, all crazy.

@Blam: I noticed anout Jin's English too. I find it very weird that he got practically fluent when he was with Rousseau's crew, but then, when he returns to the Losties he suddenly needs someone to translate for him again! Weird!

@Gary: Although I loved Ben's outburst I really don't think he's trying to help them. If he does help them, he is really in it for himself in some way, even if it's just to have his fingers in everything island related. He can't get back, so he's going to mess with everyone related to the island that isn't on the island.

Can I just say that Ben has become one of my favorite characters! Michael Emerson plays the part so outrageously well and I think I would be more upset about him dying than almost anyone else right now (except Sawyer ;)

Does the island attract pregnant women in some way? I mean, there's Rousseau, Claire and what about Sun? We still don't really know 100% that Ji Yeon is Jin's daughter. Sure Juliet said it was, but can we fully trust her?

When I saw the music box on the beach my immediate thought was "Oh my goodness, what if Jin is the one that breaks it?!"

I want to know who Charlotte was telling them not to bring back. She was talking mainly to Jin so maybe Sun? Maybe Ji Yeon? Who are Charlotte's parents?

I also am wondering why Miles is holding up so much better than Charlotte. She's been stumbling around for a while and he's still fine, other than the little nose bleed.

Another great line from Sawyer as Locke prepares to go down in the well - "You expecting a subway?"

Did both of Locke's legs break? I thought it was the just one and I am really starting to wonder if there is some significance with only his right leg getting injured. That was the leg that gets stabbed with shrapnal when he tries to open the hatch, that's the one that breaks when he gets trapped under the door in "Lockdown", that's the one that he gets shot in by Ethan.

How on earth did a freaky, resurrected/ghost, drunken, ex-surgeon end up becoming this spiritual/island advisor? Christian's character totally baffles me.

I loved the look on Ben's face when Desmond asks him if he's there for Faraday's mother. Kind of like - can it really be true that there is something this important that Ben doesn't know?!

Also, the forced interaction between Juliet and Sawyer? Gag! In the previews for next week after the episode - Kate kissing Jack? Gag! How can she possible still like/trust him any more!? I was liking her in these last two episodes when she finally was thinking on her own, but it looks like he sucks her right back in. Grrrrrr.

Paticus said...

So much info...the one thing i did notice is that Eloise said that the people that were there will have to do "for now". I think she is just going to explain how they can get back to the island, I think all of them will have to be there.

Benny said...

@Blam: Locke is still trying to get them back to the island because Christian acknowledged Richard's words rather than suggest they didn't have to come back.

So maybe they don't have to come back but Christian, right after dissing Ben, not saying the opposite may mean something.

humanebean said...

What an amazing episode! This one was chock full of goodies, cleverly tying together things we've seen before with fresh delights. So much to digest ...

And so it goes ... some things that jumped out at me:
1) Another episode this season that opens with a scene involving a child - Baby Chang, Aaron, Charlie Hume and Ji Yeon. We've explored daddy issues on the show, maternal issues ... and now the Junior Justice League gets screen time.

2) As we see Sun monitor the conversation at the marina between Ben, Jack and Kate, there is a large "Caution" sign on the wall behind them.

3) As we saw Jin and Danielle on the beach as Montand and Robert listened to the broadcast of the numbers ... I wondered if we would ever see Leonard and Sam Toomey hearing them while in the Navy in the South Pacific. How close did they get to the island and what did it do to poor Leonard?

4) Montand about Jin: "First a boat. Then a helicopter. Next thing you know he'll be talking about a submarine." HAH!

5) You know, for a devastating creature that is so noisy and destructive, Ol' Smokey is awfully stealthy and quiet when he abducts Nadine. Watching her body fall from the trees above was immediately reminiscent of the 815 captain from the pilot episode.

6) Speaking of recurring nightmares, Montand is seized and dragged through the jungle towards a hole in the ground just as Locke was in "Exodus" in Season 1. He got away when Kate tossed some dynamite down the hole ... Montand isn't quite so lucky.

7) On first viewing, I thought the Temple of Ol' Smokey looked vaguely Mayan. Upon further review, it puts me in mind of Angkor Wat, vine-covered in the Cambodian jungle. The hieroglyphs seem to be concentrated near the opening in the ground, marking Smokey's lair.

8) When Jin returns to the beach and Danielle's camp/mortuary, the life raft is gone.

9) Back on the marina, Sayid tells both Jack and Ben that if he sees them again, it won't end well. Why is Sayid so furious with Jack now? Is it just because of the Lie? Because he is now working with Ben? Or is there something else that happened between them that we haven't seen yet?

10) As they march to the Orchid, Our Man Dan recaps Locke's plan for Charlotte. As for bringing back the O6 to stop the timeshifts, "that's where we leave science behind". A rather neat summary of what Daniel himself will be doing in the future/past this season.

So much more to talk about ... must ... watch ... AGAIN.

Roland said...

Hey another classic Lost episode!

As much as I wasn't a huge fan of Charlotte, I am bit disappointed they sort of "rush" resolved her storyline in a few dying lines. I think there was more potential in her character, much like with Libby.

I was surprised at how easily Sun just agreed to go with Ben after being shown the ring. HELLO??? You have a daughter at home waiting for you?

Mrs. Hawking seemed fine with only a few of the Oceanic 6 being present. Wasn't it supposed to be armageddon if they didn't come together? PSYCHE! LOL

How did Robert know about the smokey security system? How long between the first flash with Jin meeting them and the second flash where Robert went "nuts". I wonder if in addition to headaches and nosebleeds, the flashing causes insanity. Alternatively, they could be smokey manifestations, like the way Eko's brother was to Eko, perhaps the way Christian is to many of the Losties and so Danielle would be the crazy one!

As for Danielle not recognizing Jin in the first season, I guess that they didn't have this planned out from Season one, it would have been awesome if there was a throwaway line when Danielle first comes to the Lostie's camp and said Jin looks familiar but nothing is perfect!

I didn't recognize the music box, or shirt, thanks Nikki! I thought the smoke that Jin saw was from the finale of season 1 where Danielle tried to kidnap Aaron?

I know in sci fi lore you aren't supposed to be in the same place with yourself or a version of yourself, but where did this theory come from? Isn't it convenient that each time there is an opportunity to revisit their past, like Locke with himself at the hatch, Sawyer with Kate/Claire, there is "something" holding them back. I'd like to see what happens if they meet up with themselves in an earlier form!

Ben is one lucky SOB...if I were Sun, I would have shot him long before I got him to con me...

Yes, the broken leg thing was kind of yuck...

Genevieve...you'll come to learn that Nikki is the Lost Goddess...it'll freak you out how much she notices, but she's loveable in her own way, as her "family" on this blog will attest to :)

Roland said...

Oh one thing I forgot. With the Locke promise to Jin, I wondered how he would get out of it. I think that he did get out of it by giving the ring to Ben and getting HIM to bring Sun back. So that way, he gets out of his promise...its semantics I know, but it would work...

Benny said...

This issue I have with the off-island Ben/Locke relationship is that last we saw Locke, he was being told by Christian not to trust Ben.

Either Ben proved himself again to Locke or something's happened and Ben is the only one Locke can go to for help.

edgeshat said...

Yeah, I wasn't crazy about Hawking's line at the end of the episode either, but hopefully there's more to it. Maybe she knows they will all go back b/c they are meant too. I wonder if that includes Desmond. Poor Desmond doesn't know Ben wants to kill his wife.

Locke going down the well kinda reminded me of him going down the Hatch. I think he only broke his shin on his right leg. Still, I wonder if he'll be able to walk when he leaves the island. Will his broken shin be the reason, or will it be something else.

So what confused me was that apparently Ben wasn't meant to move the Island. So why would Ben want to move it himself if he's not supposed to. Was Locke's directions from Christian/Jacob not clear to Ben that Locke had to move it? Ben's line when he turned the wheel was "I hope you're happy now Jacob". He didn't appear happy about leaving. Of course we must know he lied about not being able to go back. Maybe it'll be explained by showing us Ben's visit to Locke.

I know it was somewhat of a popular theory, but I never believed Charlotte was Ben's Annie. I think if she was Annie, Ben would have known who she was when she came to the Island. Remember, the first thing he did was shoot her. I think Annie's story has yet to be told.

Final thought, I don't think turning the wheel is the only way to leave the Island. We're supposed to believe that Richard, Ben, Ethan and Tom all turned the wheel, jumped in time almost a year every time they wanted to leave and moved the Island in the process? It seemed like turning the wheel was only a last resort to protecting it. There must be another way to come and go, but it might be limited to when and where the Island is at the time.

Nikki Stafford said...

Anonymous: I think, like many people, the survivors just want to believe in something, and Ben is SUCH a good liar that they figure one of these days he's going to tell the truth. Then again, he truly believes his lies are going to save them in the end.

You know, I'm often not so nice with Jack, but I honestly felt sorry for him this episode when, after he's just been shown up in front of Kate, he says, "But I thought Locke didn't visit you??" and Ben says, "No, I visited him." That look of OH MY GOD I HATE HIM was so palpable on his face, I really felt bad for Jack.

Hunter: "Robert didn't notice that I'd removed the firing pin either."
Thanks for that!! I had totally forgotten that line. :)

Nikki Stafford said...

Brian: I'm really hoping we'll go back to Rousseau again, maybe seeing what happened but also her giving birth to Alex. But then again, if Locke has fixed the wheel, does that mean the time travel has stopped? If so, that's sad... I didn't get enough of my Rousseau fix. :)

lefty: Geronimo Jackson has been a recurring joke throughout the series. Hurley and Charlie find a GJ album in the Swan station and keep commenting that they've never heard of the band. Then Locke listens to the album. In the flashback where Locke's hanging out with the hippies, the undercover cop is wearing a GJ t-shirt and Mike says he loved them when he was younger. The poster was in Locke's locker. At Hurley's birthday party that his parents hold for him after he's rescued, there's a GJ album sitting next to the DJ. I'm sure there are other references, but those are the ones off the top of my head. Darlton insist they really are a real band, but it's becoming so much of a red herring I'm thinking it's not. It could have been a local band in the 1970s that sold 4 albums and in that sense they really are a real band. You never know. :)

Michele said...

When John leaves the island, where is he going to appear? Tunisia?

I was surprised to see Christian but then expected to see Claire, too. Where is she? Alive, dead, limbo?

Ah, I love this show!

Nikki Stafford said...

Benny: Re: Charlotte being Annie when she was younger: I considered that, but that would make her the same age as Ben. And she's much younger than him. I actually considered last season that maybe she was the secret love child of Ben. He and Annie got together when they were 15 or something, she got pregnant, left the island, and Charlotte was born. If he was 12 in 1975 or thereabouts, that would make the timing about right for a teenage love child. We know Annie left the island at some point, but we don't know under what circumstances.

But if it were Ben's child, would he have tried to shoot her? No.

If Charlotte were in the camp for any length of time during Ben's time on the island, he would have remembered her. There were only about 100 people. You would get to know all of them when you're living that close together.

I really liked Sawyer holding onto the rope, too. He was such a hero in that scene. What's happened to the season 1 Sawyer who couldn't give a damn about anyone but himself? First he's hooting for joy because Jin is alive, and then he's scrambling in the dirt to save Locke. Wow.

Teebore said...

I kind of wish we would have seen more of Danielle between the two moments Jin witnessed.

Agreed, Brian. I hope we get back to Rousseau again at some point, somehow.

So two episodes after the legitimacy of Locke's destiny is called into question by the fact that he seemly planted the seeds for it himself back in 1954, this episode seems to reaffirm it somewhat by stressing that Locke, not Ben was meant to move the island last season, and that Locke must make the ultimate sacrifice.

Which, of course, also repudiates the notion that Ben was or still is doing the island's work, and seems to add weight to Sayid's assertion that the only side he's on is his own (this also assumes we trust shifty Christian Maybe Ghost).

And yet, even with a reminder that perhaps Ben's motivation to get the Oceanic Six back to the island is purely selfish, I find myself still throroughly enjoying his outburst in the face of Sun and Jack's combined sanctimonious-ness.

Which made me realize that Darlton have put the Oceanic Six in an odd position so far this season. While their collective reluctance to return to the island and/or trust Ben is understandable, we, the audience, know that evil Ben or not, they need to go back to the island, and thus, all their actions against Ben or their holier-than-thou attitudes towards him just make them impediments to the story. I'm thinking "yeah, yeah, Ben's a dick, but you really do need to go back. So quit fighting him about it." And so I find myself resenting arguably the main characters of the show. Which is kind of an interesting thing for the show to do.

But maybe it's just me that finds the Oceanic Six to be a big bunch of whiners lately. :)

I know this was asked last week, but why does Rousseau have no recollection of Jin when she first sees him?

Perhaps there's an explanation waiting to happen on the show, but I'd imagine it can be written off as Rousseau's general craziness by the time she sees Jin again.

Had they spent significant amounts of time together, I wouldn't buy that, but considering they hung around each other for, what, maybe a few hours, a few hours filled with craziness? I'm willing to chalk up her not recognizing Jin 16 years later to the fact that a disappearing Korean man was just a drop in the crazy bucket compared to everything else she went through, including killing her own husband.

Nikki Stafford said...

fb: I was actually going to say, "And to the people who thought the young Danielle was badly cast, I think this week she proved she wasn't!" :)

No, I don't think that musicbox was a random thing to have in the craft. She tells Sayid that it means the world to her. She brought it along on an expedition rather than leaving it at home, and she saved it during the crash, so it clearly really does mean everything to her. Robert gave it to her and that's why it's so important that Sayid fix it for her.

I thought you'd like Fionnula's name. Heehee! :)

Nikki Stafford said...

Anonymous: If Charlotte has also time-travelled before, that would explain a lot. She could have been on the island long before Ben's time, when there was still the well, and she could have been in Carthage. :)

Benny said...

@edge: turning the wheel is not the only way to leave. It moves the island and as a result you leave. When you know the time and location of the island, there is no problem coming and going; as Richard, Ethan, Tom, Juliet and Michael/Walt all did with a boat or submarine.

Turning the wheel and moving the island implies that you have to work to find it again (pendulum anyone?).

@Nikki: There is definitely more to the Charlotte backstory, obviously. It's possible she doesn't quite know Ben as well as we project.
I like the idea that she could be a teenage love child but somehow that doesn't fit quite well into all of this...yet.
We might get to know what it's all about when Dan joins/infiltrates DHARMA.

Nikki Stafford said...

Genevieve: Thank you so much!! Last week someone over on the DocArzt blog told me I was not on my A-game this year and my writing was too light (I need to take Lost SERIOUSLY, this is NOT a funny matter!!!) and I was bummed, but now I feel better! :)

Blam: I know how you feel. I was never a fan of Buffy's mom Joyce and then right before something bad happened to her on the show, I completely fell in love with her. Sigh...

And as for Desi: LOL!!!! Yes, he was in FINE form last night, was he not?!

I totally agree about Jin's English. He wasn't stuttering as much, using just one-word answers, drawing air pictures, he was practically delivering seminars on the beach. I'm not sure if that was disingenuous or not, but I guess it got the job done.

If Locke has stopped the island from moving, the question is, what time period did they stop in? Did they return to January 2005? Does this mean we won't see Rousseau anymore? Wah.

Nikki Stafford said...

Gary: Interesting idea! I didn't make the link between what happened to them and what happened to the Others, but I like it. :)

Ali bags: We got one nickname. He called Charlotte Red again. Hmm... using a recurring nickname? Isn't that like calling Kate Freckles??

The arm thing made me screech. I actually said to my husband, "Man, if they keep pulling his arm it'll come right off..." forgetting it was MONTAND!! :)

Chuck Power said...

I'm probably not the best person to try to explain this but I'll do my best.

There is a theory that if you were to travel through time and interact with people who know you in the future, they may remember the interaction but not remember that it was you that they were interacting with. It is a way of protecting the space-time continuum and the minds of the people involved. The time traveler retains the knowledge because it is not a memory to them, it is happenning in real time.

Example: In Back to the Future, Marty's parents don't remember that the guy who got them together was a dead ringer for their son, but Marty remembers everything. If you subscribe to the above theory, then this makes perfect sense.

This theory may explain why Charlotte only remembers Daniel when she is close to death. Her mind is deteriorating and any blocks that were in place have also broken down. This would also support Daniel's claim that nothing can be changed. Daniel will talk to a young charlotte at some point so the memory has always been planted in her head somewhere.

This could also explain why Rousseau did not recognize Jin when she saw him again later on the island. She may have a memory of the event but not that it was specifically Jin.

This may explain why Daniel thinks that Desmond is so special, he seems to be able to link past and current memories without any blocks being put up to preserve his mind.

I'm sure that there are other events that would kind of fall in line with this theory but I need to go put ice on my head now.

joshua said...

Just want to take a quick moment to say you are the all-time master at catching the smallest little details (I'm thinking about the boat called 'Illusion' -- damn, you're good!) And Hunter, awesome catch on the firing pin thing with Rousseau's rifle.

I have two quick comments:

1) Did anyone else notice that it didn't look so much like Rousseau's crew pulled off Montand's arm as Smokey kind of chewed it off? I could swear that a single tendril of smoke specifically wrapped itself around his arm, right at the shoulder, shortly before the whole thing came unmoored...

2) About Charlotte (poor Charlotte) speaking Korean -- I believe that was only the second time we've seen her do that, and both times I couldn't help but be struck with the way Mader plays those scenes. Is it just me, or did she not act INCREDIBLY suspicious whenever that fact was revealed? As if there was something worth hiding about the simple comprehension of a foreign language... WHY?

Nikki Stafford said...

Sonshine: No, you're right, just one of Locke's legs broke. Interestingly on the drive home last night I was listening to a talk show where this truly obnoxious woman was saying proofreading was unnecessary and stupid in today's culture. She said typos will not change your meaning, and anyone with a brain will put it together. And yet I mistakenly added an s on legs, and it completely changed my meaning. ;)

I never thought Jin might be the one to break it... good one! :)

I think Miles is holding up better because she's been on the island so much longer than he has.

I too find the stuff between Juliet and Sawyer to be gag-worthy. I am definitely not a Suliet, that's for sure.

Hutch said...

Nik, loved the re-cap.

You brought up a lot of the questions I have. That being said, this was one of the most enjoyable episode in a long while. Lots and lots of drama, excitment and LOL moments.

redeem147 said...

I know in sci fi lore you aren't supposed to be in the same place with yourself or a version of yourself, but where did this theory come from?

That's the Blinovitch Limitation Effect from Doctor Who. You meet yourself and everything goes blooey.

I didn't like or dislike Charlotte, but now I know how much I care about Daniel. I was so sad for him. It didn't matter that they didn't have chemistry - this was unrequited love.

Maybe Ben has the ring because he killed Locke.

Since Ji Yeon was on the Island (albeit as a pre-natal package) does that mean she has to go back too? Was I the only one who thought that little girl looked very much like Daniel Dae Kim?

If Desmond goes back with them, Penny's gonna be pretty ticked off.

I wish I knew what was up with the ghosties. Was Christian unable to take Locke's hand to help him up, or just unwilling? Claire could carry baby Aaron (though we aren't sure if she's the same kind of entity). Is Richard Alpert an immortal human, or a ghostie too?

I wonder if the 'six' will get back to the Island, but that in some way will enable all the castaways to leave.

Nikki Stafford said...

Paticus: I agree... I think Eloise can get things started, but she can't do it without everyone. Maybe she figures they'll come around? :)

Humane: I definitely have to do a post on the Junior Justice League. I love it! :)

I totally thought of the pilot dropping from the trees from the first season! There were so many references to season 1 this episode, it was awesome. Now I have to go watch season 1 again. :)

Are you sure Rousseau's life raft was gone? I thought I saw it... but maybe I'm just thinking of when it was sitting on the beach at the beginning. I wonder if she moved it into the jungle as a tent or something?

I wondered the same thing about Sayid, but I'm thinking Sayid thinks Jack is poison because of how Jack will lead them all, and will follow false prophets. And Ben is surely one of those. Sayid is probably sick and tired of all of it and just wants to get away for good. I can't wait to see how they change his mind.

Hmm... now I'm thinking while I type, but what are the chances that Ben offers something like, IF you come back, the bad things that have happened while off the island could be reversed? Is there any way he could offer Sayid Nadia again? Why else would Sayid agree to ANYTHING at this point? Sayid's a good person... I wonder if it'll come down to simply saving his friends.

Roland: Aw, you are so sweet! (Don't worry... the cheque is in the mail as you requested...) ;)

Benny: This issue I have with the off-island Ben/Locke relationship is that last we saw Locke, he was being told by Christian not to trust Ben.

Does anyone think Ben might have killed Locke? Locke didn't go to see Ben, Ben went to see him, killed him, took the ring from him, etc.... we still don't have any exact details, just Ben being matter-of-fact and jumpier than usual.

Adela P. said...

Your recaps are pretty much the epitome of why I have yet to review Lost on my blog -- I could never, EVER pick up on all of the little details like you do. I wish I had your memory! Thanks for posting such long and nitpicky reviews. :-)

Oh, and PS -- got your book, LOVE IT, thank you SO much!

Nikki Stafford said...

edgeshat: Oh how I hope it kills Desmond... UNLESS, Desmond remains our off-island link to Widmore, and we continue to see the events play out there as Des tries to keep him from following everyone.

I think Ben wanted off the island because he was so overwhelmed with grief over Alex, he just wanted to get to Widmore's territory and dole out revenge. So chasing down Penny all these years has been his main goal, while taking out as many of Widmore's people as he possibly can.

Michele: I know that Emilie de Ravin is not going to be appearing in season 5 (I hope that's not a spoiler) but will be back in season 6, or so I've heard. The scenes with her last week were stock footage scenes from season 1.

As for where Locke lands, I think Ben landed in Tunisia because that puts him close to Sayid, and the island put him there because it needed him to be there. Locke will land where the island wants him to, I think.

Teebore: And yet, even with a reminder that perhaps Ben's motivation to get the Oceanic Six back to the island is purely selfish, I find myself still throroughly enjoying his outburst in the face of Sun and Jack's combined sanctimonious-ness.

I completely agree, it was a WONDERFUL scene, especially the way he hit the brakes and almost sent the two through the windshield. :)

Teebore said...

I wish I knew what was up with the ghosties. Was Christian unable to take Locke's hand to help him up, or just unwilling?

I was wondering the same thing. The line was setup in such way that I immediately thought "of course he can't help him up, he's non-corporeal." But then I wondered, if he is, how was he holding the lantern? Or baby Aaron in the jungle last season? So then I thought, maybe's he's just a jerk.

Loosely tangential to Christian, I'm wondering about how Locke was intended to turn the wheel. It seems that the wheel was off its track, which is why the island was skipping through time.

So was it off its track because Ben pushed it, or because Ben pushed it wrong? If the later, then how do Jacob/Christian know that Locke would have pushed it any differently?

Interesting thoughts on Ben killing Locke. I certainly wouldn't put it past him at this point. Though I'd have to think, if he took the ring, he must have had a conversation with Locke about it before killing him; otherwise, Ben probably wouldn't have even known about it.

Nikki Stafford said...

Chuck: Excellent write-up. I think this would work, especially being a sci-fi convention. Maybe it's like the idea that if you see something so horribly traumatic your brain actually erases it from your memory because it knows your system can't handle it. It could be the same sort of idea.

Joshua: Aw, thanks.

And yes, I agree about how Montand's arm came off. I don't think they pulled it off, either. Argh, I can't believe I didn't write that, but when I was watching it I said to my husband, "Ack, I think Smokey is sawing it off!!!" and then both of us went, "EWWWW!" at the same time as it came off. Ack indeed.

Yes, the Korean thing didn't make any sense. Especially, as I pointed out in my S4 book, the fact that she doesn't know French. How could she not know French, but she knows Korean? An anthropologist would know many languages (French among them), but maybe she was doing specialty work in Korea that will become very important to the story?

Nikki Stafford said...

Teebore: Re: Christian: The line was setup in such way that I immediately thought "of course he can't help him up, he's non-corporeal." But then I wondered, if he is, how was he holding the lantern? Or baby Aaron in the jungle last season? So then I thought, maybe's he's just a jerk.

LOL!!! I thought the same thing. But I'm thinking maybe Locke was MEANT to do it himself, and if Christian helps him it's akin to Ben turning the wheel, and things won't be resolved?

Teebore said...

maybe she was doing specialty work in Korea that will become very important to the story?

We know Paik has some loose ties to Widmore, and of course, Charlotte was part of Widmore's expedition, so maybe Charlotte has even stronger ties to Paik then we know.

Brian Douglas said...

Re: Ben and Sayid

What if they reason they had a falling out was because Ben asked him to kill Penelope?

Ted said...

Maybe Eloise is so pip pip now because Locke got the donkey wheel to stop skipping, which buys more time for the O6 to return for a greater purpose?

Nikki Stafford said...

Ted: Excellent thought!! I like that one. :)

Benny said...

@Chuck: It's an interesting theory and may very well play out.
But to play devil's advocate: what I would say in the case of Back to the Future is that Marty grew up to resemble that guy who got them to hook up. My point being they didn't meet teenage Marty twice.
In the case of Jin and Rousseau, both times them met Jin was within a few months, so he looked the same both times they met for the 'first' time! Meaning Rousseau met adult Jin twice.
And I'm still not sure Charlotte did not remember Daniel from her childhood, she kept quiet and had an awkward way of interacting with him.

@redeem: Ben killing Locke would also make sense if, once Ben talks to him, he realizes Locke has lost faith in Ben himself.
Des: And in the preview, he's quite surprised and angry when he learns the O6 are willingly trying to get back.

@Nikki and the Des people: Desmond wanted to talk to Eloise to save the others, not quite returning to the island. As you suggest he may very well help in a non-returning fashion, since that is his goal. This could fit with everything: him helping, him being our off-island POV.

NOTE on where Locke lands: some people suggest antepodes (opposite points on the globe) and Tunisia has it in the south pacific. So, from that theory, it may depend on where exactly the island is when one turns the Dharmacakra.

@Teebore: I think Christian enables Locke to do what he can. He's not being a jerk but merely a reflection of Locke's ever present "Don't tell me what I can't do!"

@Ted/Nikki: I know Locke buying some time makes sense. But I'm still iffy with the
idea that the timeline of those left behind and the O6 may be simultaneous.
Even though we saw Locke turn the wheel within that 70hrs span, to me it was part of a different timeframe, three years before the O6. There had only been a week or so between Ben's and Locke's turning of the wheel. But I concede that the concept of time/time-travel is still not quite clear in this show. And the Desmond memory may attest to the idea that things are happening at the same time.

maryelere said...

The Rope:

Why was it still there? Because Sawyer and Locke were touching it? So could they take other things with them when they time jump?

humanebean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
humanebean said...

Nikki,

YES! I completely love the idea that Ben offers them a way to erase the events of the last three years off-island if they go back and do what needs to be done. BUT - what does this mean for Ji Yeon? She was still a li'l muffin in the Easy Bake Oven when Sun left the first time. And, if Desmond goes with them ... what about Charlie Hume, not yet a glimmer in his mother's eye?

It occurred to me that we will see a scene in the future/past (well, ahead on the show, that is) charged with emotion as an overcome Daniel speaks to a young Charlotte ... and HAS to tell her to leave the island and never come back, lest she die - because he already HAS told her, or she wouldn't have recalled it. If true, this scene will tear me apart, guaranteed.

Do we really know WHEN Locke fixed the wheel? Could it have been long BEFORE Ben turned it? Was the wheel knocked off its axle by 'The Incident'? We see Sawyer et al. up above, no well in sight ... but also no immediate sign of The Orchid, either. What if the Island sent Locke back to fix the wheel ... and Christian met him there to provide .. instructions, but no physical help - because that would violate something in The Book of Laws?

Last thought ... Charlotte and her mom returned to England without her dad. I'm crawling out on a limb here, (hold my hacksaw) ... but what if dad is Horace Goodspeed and mom is Olivia? There's a VERY superficial resemblance between Charlotte and Olivia (and I don't recall an English accent) - but given the connections we continue to see established between our existing characters, I remember Darlton saying that Horace and Oivia would 'factor significantly in the future' (see http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Olivia). If Miles is Baby Chang, perhaps young Charlotte was a Goodspeed before she left the island. Crazy, no?

P.S. Life raft is definitely gone from the beach. We see life preservers, etc. - but perhaps you are right and Danielle has used it for some other purpose.

Jeff said...

Just like you should always do the opposite of what Ben says, I'd say the same for Locke. Seriously, what has he actually done right? He is 100% deadset on doing something, but eventually realizes he was completely wrong, as evidenced in an earlier episode with Sawyer about the Hatch...
"it was just a light.."

Jarrett Pressman said...

Hey Nikki, I have your books and they are great.

To address the Rousseau not remembering Jin I am pretty sure that because of the information we learn in the beginning of the season Desmond doesn't remember Daniel until the moment he interacted with him. That's why he wakes up and all of a sudden boom has a new memory.

If Rousseau were still alive currently the Jin memories would have popped in her brain.

Also my theory for why Charlotte remembers Daniel is, that apparently even though the island is "inbetween flashes" her brain (or consciousness) is still bouncing back and forth (like Minkowski and Theresa) hence why she is acting like she is a little girl and causing the nosebleeds.

A lot of fans are like we saw Daniel already in the past so he was always there! Lest they forget this is LOST. The show where nothing is shown in order. "We" may have seen him back there already but I am sure the Daniel we are currently with has not gone back to that time yet. Don't you remember in the Season 2 premiere we had the end point of Desmond holding a gun to Locke's head and the had to watch the next three episodes to fill in the middle?

And that's that (dusting off hands)...

-Jarrett

Chuck Power said...

Wow.
Thanks for the mention Nikki. I'm just glad to add something to the conversation.

Genevieve said...

So I'm at work and therefore can't respond as thoroughly as I can when I'm at home (where I can "shush!" my kids when it comes to Wednesday nights and all things "Lost"-related) but...

Roland--Oh, I know Nikki is the Lost-Goddess! Knew it when my brother gave me her Season One book and ever since then I've read her "Lost" stuff faithfully! (Aren't you supposed to be faithful to gods/goddesses?) I just don't comment that often. But yes, she does continue to "freak" me out with her uncanny attention to detail!

Nikki--YOU ARE AWESOME! Please keep the writing light--I seriously LOL when I read your stuff!

And though I'm not a "Buffy" fan, I do love "Twilight" (even with all its flaws)--dig the shirt in your new profile pic!

The Question Mark said...

Amazing episode. Seeing Smokey and Christian again was fantastic. I don't know what it is, but any episode with the monster always turns out to be better than normal.

Is it just me, or does young Rousseau look like the Mona Lisa? LOL

Was anybody as heartbroken as I was to see Locke hurt his legs again?
There are so many questions, but so far I'm just itching for next week. Jeremy Bentham awaits!

Robbie said...

Couple nitpicks, haven't checked if they have already been posted.

"The interesting thing is, she got that last tidbit of information from Zombie Richard, so was it reliable in any way?"

I think you mean Zombie Robert, if anyone.

"Interestingly, this time the smoke is actually from her camp."

I'm not sure where you got that idea...I just assumed it was the one she mentioned as being made by the Others when they were about to take Alex. I don't recall any assurance that it was from her camp.

Mark R.Y. said...

Jarrett, that's a good explanation re: Danielle and Jin. My idea is that maybe we all can assume there was an unseen moment between them in an earlier season in which Rousseau confronts Jin about his presence - but he, of course, speaks no French and his English skills haven't evolved enough so Danielle gives up trying to figure out why Jin is "back" on the island 16 years later.

merc13 said...

Really? You liked it when Ben put "holier-than-thou" Jack in his place with that sanctimonious diatribe, after terrorizing them with fake-lawyers threatening to take another kid from them (remember Walt?)! I hope Jack gives him another beating.

Texas Susan said...

Nikki and posters: Who would think that one hour (and not even an entire 60 minutes) could elicit such deep thinking and analysis?!? You always help me understand the episode more thoroughly; keep up the good work!

Benny said...

@maryelere: yes, that's why the zodiac moved with them and the canoe.


@humanebean: true, we don't know when Locke turned the wheel. But if I had to guess, I'd say it doesn't matter, it is timeless. As for the well/Orchid presence, remember that they walked a little bit through trees before getting to the well, so maybe the Orchid is just hidden, I would think the well is gone because DHARMA has buried it. That's just my guess.

I like your thinking on Charlotte being born of Olivia and Horace.


@Jarrett: I'm thinking the same thing with Daniel. The Daniel we saw in circa 70's 80's is most likely Dan fro 2005, just time shifted.

Mythos said...

I'm not sure if anyone told you yet, but in "Solitary" Rousseau explains that she removed the firing pin in Robert's weapon right before she killed him (the same thing happens to Sayid). That should answer one of your questions, right?

Karolyn said...

I was wondering the same thing about Ji Yeon, and thinking how is Ben going to get her back to the island if she is in Korea? The other thing I wondered about was Sun's comment about "finding her a friend". To me it seemed that she was going to take Aaron... which was the same uneasy feeling I got last week when Kate was getting ready to leave Aaron with her to go and meet the lawyer. Something about it made me feel just a tad bit nervous. Sun has definitely been acting very strange as of late. It was very convenient the way she has appeared in L.A., just as Kate needs an "understanding friend" and just as Ben is trying to gather the Oceanic 6 together.

Hunter said...

So are we certain that Locke turning the donkey wheel fixed the time jumps? If this is true, Locke has no reason to bring everyone back since their friends are already safe. Maybe all Locke did was use the wheel to get off the island and it's still stuck.

Also, I'm think the "her" Charlotte refers to when she says, "Don't bring her back," might be Mrs. Hawking. She's very suspicious and has an evilish quality about her. Bringing her back to the island could pose a problem.

KeepingAwake said...

The timing issues with Charlotte work out rather nicely if Charlotte was a Hostile, not a Dharma Child. If you re-watch her incoherent babbling to Daniel, she says she was born on the island 'and then there was the Dharma Initiative', suggesting she and her parents were there pre-Dharma.

(Sorry if someone else already raised this--I sort of skimmed the comments.)

Steve said...

Nikki,
Maybe someone mentioned this already but maybe Danielle doesn't remember Jin because that memory hadn't happened yet even though it was the past. Much like Desmond remembering Faraday telling him to find his mother in Oxford after he left the island. The only problem in this case is she is dead. If she was still alive that memory probably would have came to her. Maybe it's the same concept.

About Locke keeping Jin's promise, he actually does in a way. I gather he tells Ben whose still alive on island and gives the message to him about bringing back the O6 and then dies somehow, which now becomes Ben's cause. Ben figures he'll need that wedding ring as proof later on, so technically Locke didn't break Jin's promise...Ben does.

Nikki Stafford said...

Robbie: "Interestingly, this time the smoke is actually from her camp."

I'm not sure where you got that idea...I just assumed it was the one she mentioned as being made by the Others when they were about to take Alex. I don't recall any assurance that it was from her camp.


Jin stands on a hill and sees the plume of smoke and there's water right behind it, indicating there's a beach there. He then heads down the other side of the hill in the direction of the smoke. Cut to him arriving at the beach and Rousseau's got a fire smouldering. I think we were meant to link the plume of smoke on the beach to her campfire on the beach.

Anonymous said...

Another Ben/Locke parallel: Both fall down reching the donkey wheel and both injure themselves.

KeepingAwake said...

Thinking about Charlotte telling Daniel that he had warned her as a child to never return to the Island:

It seems that he hasn't yet traveled back in time to deliver this warning, as he has no recollection of it. Is it possible that between the time of Charlotte's death and whenever he travels back to warn her, he has seen that it is indeed sometimes possible to change events?

He might have just not been able to keep himself from warning her because of the way he feels about her, yes. But might not something have occurred that would allow him to change events in the past?

Benny said...

@Robbie/Nikki:
I don't think we should assume that the plume came from her camp just based on the small fire we saw. But
I don't think we're to believe it came from the others either.

Rousseau's claim of the plume of black smoke was when they came for Alex, a week after her birth, which should not happen for another few weeks at least (if Danielle carried to full term).

I'm glad with assuming that it came from her camp, and led Jin, but we didn't see the bigger fire that was producing the smoke. I also doubt we're going to see more of that fire.

Mike Cunningham said...

Did any else feel that Ben's temper-tantrum in the van sound like a Dad yelling at his kids: "Knock it off or I will turn this van around! Don't think I won't!" I laughed so hard at that part.

Overall a fantastic episode! Keep 'em coming!

Doe said...

I have an idea floating in my head about Charlotte. When she mentioned that her mother left the island I thought what if Mrs. Hawking is her mother. And her father was someone on the island - maybe Widmore, Christian (he was a busy man we all know) or even Richard.

(This is of course if we assume that she is the woman who showed Daniel the bomb whom most folks believe). And what about that line she said to Daniel - You never give up do you (or something like that) when she asked who the leader was when she was younger (Ellie). Did his "mom" mean "you" as in some group of military folks or Daniel himself? My first instinct was she was talking to him directly.

What if Daniel is like Richard since he seems to have been around for a while. Is it time travel for him or for that matter maybe even Mrs. H has time traveled. And so he could be Charlotte’s older, older, older brother. LOL

I know Daniel said he loved Charlotte but what if he meant it because she was his sister/half sister even. I don't think he ever kissed her. Maybe that's why he was the "crazy man" telling her not to come back because he was trying to save his sister.

Both Daniel and Charlotte did end up in England at some time (just not sure if same time) but maybe never met? And maybe Daniel found out but couldn’t tell her due to the whole time travel/continuum thing.

I know some folks mentioned the Goodspeeds but would not Charlotte have to be a lot older then?

This sound much better in my head – and now my brain hurts - I'll take that hacksaw now @humanebean.

P.S. Of course if they did kiss then this whole theory is blown. Or it's Flowers in the Attic all over again. :o)

SonshineMusic said...

I love all of this. Nikki, this is such a fantastic place for us all to come and go Lost crazy. I'm so glad I found you. Own all of your Lost books now, by the way :)

A few things...

@ Roland: I was surprised at how easily Sun just agreed to go with Ben after being shown the ring. HELLO??? You have a daughter at home waiting for you?

She's spent three years mourning Jin and now finds out that he may be alive! I think I would have taken the chance.

Re: Charlotte and Korean: I just can't help but wonder if she is in some bizarre way connected to Sun or Jin or something. It keeps coming to my mind, but I'm not sure how that would work

Re: Sayid and Jack: You know, I don't think Sayid ever liked Jack. They kind of worked together a few times (very few) but he never viewed Jack as the leader and never really respected him, so I wasn't surprised at all to see him so venomous to Jack. I just wonder, as I see others also do, what made him turn so abruptly against Ben?

@ merc13: Really? You liked it when Ben put "holier-than-thou" Jack in his place with that sanctimonious diatribe, after terrorizing them with fake-lawyers threatening to take another kid from them (remember Walt?)! I hope Jack gives him another beating.

It wasn't so much liking him "putting Jack in his place" as loving the way he just lost it. Ben is usually so very controlled and you get the feeling that he plans all of his actions out carefully. This time he just got angry, which we see so rarely, and I loved the moment of that.

@Karolyn: The other thing I wondered about was Sun's comment about "finding her a friend". To me it seemed that she was going to take Aaron... which was the same uneasy feeling I got last week when Kate was getting ready to leave Aaron with her to go and meet the lawyer. Something about it made me feel just a tad bit nervous.

Seriously. Sun really creeped me out and I did not want Kate to leave Aaron with her at all. I also got the same feeling about her maybe taking Aaron away. I was so relieved when Kate ran and got him.

@Keeping Awake: The timing issues with Charlotte work out rather nicely if Charlotte was a Hostile, not a Dharma Child.

That is a very interesting thought. For some reason, even though it feels like they're trying to point us that way, I've never really believed she was part of the Dharma group. I've always considered her an Other or a Hostile.
It will be interesting to see what all they do with that. Also, she's dead, but that doesn't mean we won't see her again, of course!

Chrissie said...

Anyone else who thought the French guys hairs looked very slick and modern, regarding it was 1988 (not fasionable back then) and they probably hadn't had a haircut for ages? Nothing adds to the story, but just an observation...

humanebean: I would think the well is gone because DHARMA has buried it

It was probably buried a long time before that, they hadn't yet discovered the Frozen Donkey Wheel (it was inside the rock foundation when we saw Daniel with the Dharma team at the orchid station). And I'm pretty sure that if they found a well they would first make sure there is nothing more to it before burying it just like that.

I think Daniel have a lot more to do with the FDW, in fact he might be the one who made it in the first place. Let's say he goes back in time something like 3000 years ago and gets stuck, and uses his scientific knowledge about time travelling to build the FDW.

It might seem like a loose theory, but remember when Daniel explained the Island's time skipping with the metaphor of a vinyl disc that skips. That resembles the FDW quite much as we saw it when Locke got there.

The Chapati Kid said...

Love it. I feel like i need to watch Seasons 1 and 2 again, because there's so much I will get from it. I have a feeling it's time to go back. Just like they are. Full circle and all -- like the whole Dharma-Karma principle -- the whole cycle of birth and rebirth, past actions and future consequences. I think it's time to bone up on the Bhagavad Gita. That's where Krishna explains it all to Arjuna, his disciple.

redeem147 said...

Forgot to mention that the hieroglyphics on the temple were Egyptian, as were those on the display in the hatch. Were they the same ones? Could they be the numbers?

And why Egyptian?

The Chapati Kid said...

Just emailed you about the Bhagavad Gita - Lost parallels. I am CONVINCED that Locke is fighting the battle on behalf of the two brothers (the Kauravas and the Pandavas = Widmore and Linus). Not to mention that the Kauravas are 100 siblings, and the Pandavas (the heros of the epic) number 5 in total -- they are 5 brothers, and the Losties off the island that Ben is trying to get back, number, 1-Jack, 2-Kate, 3-Hurley, 4-Saiyid, 5-Sun.

That does not, of course, explain Desmond or Aaron.

Now, if only there were someone who died after being shot with a thousand arrows.

There a very Judeo-Hindu allegory going on... Locke is the quintessential Arjuna whose devotion and commitment is tried constantly, but also a very Jesus-like figure who suffers for his devotion.

Also, what was it that Charlotte said last before she died? Something about dinner? I'd like to know what that was. Especially because they were her last words.

Ali Bags said...

@Doe - at one point I was wondering whether Charlotte was Daniel's sister and that's why he loved her, so I watched Jughead again and he clearly says he is 'in love' with her. I don't think he would say that about his sister! Lol!

Unless he was lying of course, just to stop them shooting him. I do hope most people (except Ben) are telling the truth or things are going to get mighty complicated and impossible to predict.

Ali Bags said...

@Chapati Kid

Charlotte's last words were 'I'm not supposed to have chocolate before dinner.'

humanebean said...

Benny: you're quite right, of course, that we may just have not been able to see whatever of the Orchid Station would have been visible in that time as we watch Sawyer try to pull a rope ... out of solid ground. We'll have an answer for this quickly, I think - perhaps next week's episode or no later than the following.

Chrissie: it would make sense for DHARMA to fill in the well, especially as they sought to build a station in the area and control access to this energy source. Also, Daniel certainly may play a larger role in the FDW story, though to what extent we don't know.

What intrigues me is why a 'well' in the FIRST place?
At whatever point in the past an entrance to the energy source below was created, some kind of shaft would have been constructed. But a 'well' implies that something from below would be 'brought up'. How/why was this energy accessed in the Island's past? There's more underground activity on this Island than there is on the Tube in London!

We've seen the allusions to Cerberus, Anubis and gods of the Underworld in various mythologies throughout the story reveal in LOST. These mysteries no doubt are part and parcel of the Answers we hope to learn as the remainder of the show plays out. For now, the thought that some of that energy below would at one time have been brought up, perhaps regularly, by the bucketful ... or by whatever someone climbing down from above could CARRY - has me meditating on the purpose of a 'well' at this location.

Blam said...

I forgot to mention this in my first post and don't remember anyone else picking up on the irony: When confronted by Kate about the blood test, Ben says to her, "He's not really your child!" Uh... Alex? Hello? Pot calling the kettle black, metal, and scalding hot?

Did anyone else see Ellie (Alexandra Krosney) on CSI last night? Her first line was... "Namaste"!

And I don't know if you watched the ABC feed, Nikki, but here in the states they promoted Castle, another Nathan Fillion series for us to enjoy before it's cancelled.

Replies to Nikki's replies:

"Sayid is probably sick and tired of all of it and just wants to get away for good. I can't wait to see how they change his mind."

Ben: "There is a box on the island that will give you anything you want. Nadia is in there right now, waiting for you." (uses special hypnotic persuasion power)

Sayid: "Uh... Okay! Let's go!"

"I actually considered last season that maybe she was the secret love child of Ben. ... But if it were Ben's child, would he have tried to shoot her? No."

This is just conjecture, as always, but Annie could've hidden the pregnancy from him. Still, I don't think that they'd kill off Charlotte just to have an ironic moment for Ben later if/when he found out she was his. Much better for her to have been taken from him when she was young, and that be the impetus for him stealing Alex. None of which even touches on how in the world she was born on the island if she was conceived there, which if she was teenage Ben's she'd have to have been.

"Blam: I know how you feel. I was never a fan of Buffy's mom Joyce and then right before something bad happened to her on the show, I completely fell in love with her. Sigh..."

I never loved her character either, but she looked like Blythe Danner, and it's impossible to hate Blythe Danner. You're being circumspect about what happened to her for spoilers' sake, I guess, but that episode where Buffy applies CPR is astoundingly good.

"What's happened to the season 1 Sawyer who couldn't give a damn about anyone but himself?"

He's already realized that there's nothing back "home" for him, as he said to Kate. Maybe the fact that it's not a temporary stay has made him realize that the people on the island are the only people he has, along with some carryover from when Hurley conned him into being the leader of the camp during Jack's time with the Others.

"I was actually going to say, 'And to the people who thought the young Danielle was badly cast, I think this week she proved she wasn't!'"

I think her acting is strong; I just don't think she looks enough like Mira Furlan and I don't buy the age gap, which I promise to stop whining about it after a few more mentions.

Blam said...

Redeem: "Maybe Ben has the ring because he killed Locke." Dun-dun-dunnnnn!

Chuck -- Very interesting theory... And good luck thawing out your head!

Anonymous: "Another Ben/Locke parallel: Both fall down reching the donkey wheel and both injure themselves." No offense, but it looks like it's kinda hard not to!

Humanebean -- Great observations, especially the ones about the recurring babies at the cold open and the "caution" sign!

Teebore: "Which, of course, also repudiates the notion that Ben was or still is doing the island's work, and seems to add weight to Sayid's assertion that the only side he's on is his own ..." So are there three forces vying for "ownership" of the island -- Ben, Widmore, and Locke?

Teebore said...

So are there three forces vying for "ownership" of the island -- Ben, Widmore, and Locke?

It certainly seems possible; though if I had to make a decision right now, I'd say that Ben THINKS he's doing the work of the island, regardless of whether or not he actually is.

When Locke emerged from the cabin saying he was told to move the island, I think Ben genuinely believed he was meant to turn the wheel. Having clearly seen Locke rise above him in terms of his relationship to the island, I think Ben innocently interpreted the order to mean that he, the fallen favorite, should turn the wheel so that Locke, the new Golden Boy, could stay and lead Jacob's people.

In which case, the fault falls to Locke, for allowing Ben to mis-intrepert the instructions and not realizing that when Christian said "you" he meant "Locke" not "someone."

Or the fault lies with Christian/Jacob for not stressing enough that Locke, and only Locke, had to move the island.

Of course, I could be very wrong about this; that's just my personal take on it, given the info we have. I'm sure it's also being colored by my enjoyment of Ben's character, because I really hope he's just evil, and not EEEVVIILLL, if you know what I mean.

Nikki Stafford said...

Chapati: You will be very proud to know I've read the Bhagavadgita... it was in grade 12 for a world religions course. Do I remember a word of it? No. But I remember we had to do a visual depiction of it, and I thought mine was frakkin' brilliant, representing the all-encompassing nature of things and the void, etc. (you had to see it to understand its true awesomeness) but the other girls in the class brought in beautiful pieces of coloured bristol board they'd shaken all over with sparkles, and they got higher marks. That teacher was... weird.

I wish I still had that picture. It would be the freakin' cover of my book. Hahahaha... I will definitely go back and revisit it, thank you!!

And Ali bags beat me to the answer on her last words. Why do these writers always create last words that make me want to cry? Those were so oddly touching.

Nikki Stafford said...

P.S. I'm planning on going back to seasons 1 and 2 and doing a marathon, too. Wanna come over? ;)

Jeremiah said...

I'm beginning to think the reason why most of the characters can't remember seeing each other in the past has to do with "course correction." Perhaps, since they were always meant to follow their destiny, the slight disruption caused by an otherworldly appearance is overlooked, except in "special" cases, like Desmond, who Faraday makes clear is different from everyone else. What do you think?

Don Edwards said...

Damn. What a show. What a blog....what a post!

But I have to ask: Am I the only one who's noticed that John Locke did not bleed during all the white flashes?

Benny said...

If Locke was meant to move the island in the first place, wouldn't have Ben remained and been the leader, or potentially being rejecter by Richard et al.?

All of these discussions certainly bring out interesting points that have not quite been addressed on the show.

Nikki Stafford said...

Don: It's a really good point. A few of us mentioned it last week in the comments, and I suggested Charlotte's been there the longest, followed by Miles, etc. in order of when their noses start bleeding. But Locke is immune, just like Alpert is. It definitely means something, that's for sure!

Benny said...

... which would certainly explain why Ben 'misinterpreted' the order. Or at least Ben could use the effect of turning the wheel to justify to Locke why HE (Ben) had to turn it, in effect taking Locke's place.

@Don, neither did Jin and it took a long time for Sawyer to do as well.

Jazzygirl said...

I've read most the comments and agree with what most people are saying about Nikki's points and comments.
I did want to add/support an early comment that I read about Locke and his emotional reaction when Christian told him it was a sacrafice. One of my most memorable moments from this week was when he's lying there and Christian is telling him he can't help him up, he must go and it's a sacrafice. Locke looks up at him, a single tear comes down his face, cutting through his wrinkles, which are dirt covered...a symbol of age and all the struggles he has gone through. He nods his head slightly and it's such a poignant moment that I thought it was acted beautifully. You could just FEEL his heart swell in knowing that he does have a purpose and he is important in this lifetime.
Just wanted to add that. :)

Emilia said...

I'm trying to figure out the deal with the "frozen donkey wheel." After this week's episode, I think we're meant to know how the wheel should look when it's working properly: slowly moving in one direction. The flashes are happening because the wheel is off its axis, causing it to jump wildly from time to time. But when Ben first turns the wheel to move the island, it looks like it's been frozen (literally) in one "time" for awhile.

What does this mean? What year has it been frozen in? How long has the wheel been frozen? How does having time "stop" affect the inhabitants of the island (both the Losties and the Others)? What implications does it have for the island's visiblility?

It's also interesting to me that the image for the progression of time is a turning wheel. This implies that time on the island is circular, not linear.

Emilia said...

I usually picture a timeline, not a time circle.

Nikki Stafford said...

Emilia: You've hit something important here. A timeline means it happens, and is left behind and we keep moving forward. A circle suggests we can go back, but I think it also represents reincarnation, and (to cross TV shows here) that everything has happened before, and will happen again.

I also didn't think about the fact that the jammed wheel could insinuate the island was stuck in one time all these years. That feeds directly into Jason Hunter's time travel theory.

Doe said...

@Ali Bags - Thanks for watching Jughead again for clarification. I guess I gave myself a headache trying to explain my thoughts for nothing. LOL. But at least I know someone else thought the same thing and I wasn't thinking way outside the box. :o)

cordelia said...

Great episode! And great comments as usual!

Although quite obvious, I think the fact that both Ben and Locke get injured on their way to the donkey wheel is worth noting, if only script-wise. In my opinion, the purpose of both scenes is to stress that reaching/moving the wheel (and therefore the island?) is dangerous and demanding, both mentally and physically. Which is no big news, but still quite an interesting way to highlight it. :)

@Emilia: I'm totally with you on the frozen wheel and the time circle.

Michael said...

@Emilia

I really like your take on the frozen donkey wheel representing the island being frozen in time. Could this have something to do with how the Dharma food is still edible? I mean, I don't think beers or old crackers would be too enjoyable after all of that time.

This is my first post. I'm a really big fan of Niiki's and everyone else who comments here.

batcabbage said...

Nik, that obviously wound-too-tightly guy over at the Doc Artz blog has no idea what he's talking about. You, of all people, not taking Lost seriously enough??!!! BOLLOCKS, SAYS I! Not on your A-game? You're ALL A-game, kid!

I don't really have much to comment on in the episode, apart from the fact that season 5 is proving to be my favourite. Yay Jin! Yay Young Rousseau! YAY CHRISTIAN! And yay that Charlotte is finally dead, and like someone else pointed out, her character finally had a purpose, telling Daniel that they'd met before and that he was quite scary. I laughed at that - he would be pretty scary to a kid, especially telling her that if she ever came back, she'd die.

Ali Bags said...

@Nikki 'I also didn't think about the fact that the jammed wheel could insinuate the island was stuck in one time all these years. That feeds directly into Jason Hunter's time travel theory.'

And doesn't that explain Richard Alpert's lack of aging very nicely too?

Ali Bags said...

I've just seen Bernard on Grey's Anatomy - so that's what happened to him! He's flashed to Seattle Grace. Still no sign of Rose though.

LotteryTicket said...

Frozen vs. Unfrozen DW and Island Time: Theory: When Daniel Faraday visit Dharma 198? as the orchid station is being built, we see that the DW and surrounding rock is "hot" for a lack of better understanding. Either unique properties of the island or via Jughead. The DI create a cyrogenic refrigeration system to 'stop' the wheel. Could Daniel be a part of this, trying to buy time? 198?, the incident. We see Ben chip away at frozen wheel and turn it, causing him to be displaced to Tunsia. 2005? We know that Alpert in 1954 does not seem to know anything about 'time traveling' Locke flashes to unknown time side DW cave, but it is not hot or frozen, wheel is skippy, he gives it a push. So is this 2004? and/or the other side of the wheel?

This would mean that the island was stuck in time/hitching/dragging between the incident 198? and 2004. Island time = no time or slow time?

So Alpert and everyone on the island would stop aging? Including DI. Including Daniel. Including Ben. Then the Purge. What happens when you leave the island, do you resume your aging? Would this explain maternity problem?

If we assume that the island skipping stops with Locke (2004) and nows moves in time, what's the mission of the O6? And if the island has windows of opportunity to be located, what's keeping it hidden the rest of the time?

LotteryTicket said...

But what I really wanted to talk about is the 'mimic' capacity of Smokey. As mention, Smokey can and does use the image and memories of it's victims to communicate and manipulate. So, if you could please take another look at the scene with John Locke in the future where he receives the compass. You will see Alpert, you will hear Ben, and you might rethink the motivation behind this scene.

This is similar to Ben with Sayid in the Vet. remove a bullet he took in the Economist. The use of the glasses (Alpert does not use glasses). The phrasing, etc. So, I theorize that this future scene is Smokey using Locke to start a series of events that will ultimately save the island.

ronald said...

For Charlotte,
If she saw Daniel when she was a litte girl, and she came to this conclusion when she was an adult, Why is that not a "Constant" moment? She knew about Dharma from Paik and her Tunisia digs right?

Wheel
If the wheel was stuck, I don't think the only option was Ben. I don't think the adjective gentle is used to describe a polar bear either? Was this the cause of the "incident" and everyone in the Dharma Init is dying from a nosebleed? Wasn't Horace Goodspeed bleeding from the nose in Locke's dream? Maybe the wheel being stuck was due to Daniel doing something? Bomb, maybe? If the time jumping now has stopped, How does daniel get back to the DHARMA camp and Dr. Chang? Or does that mean that the Julia/Sawyer/Jin will be stuck in the past? That the O6 will never be reunited until the end?

Love the blog

Benny said...

@Ronald: you bring an interesting point with Charlotte. Since it isn't her consciousness that was traveling but her physical body, this could be an indication that constants are required only for consciousness time-travel.
As for the DHARMA nosebleed, they were more of eruptions and breathing problems (poison gas). I think the two are still unrelated. Let's wait and see.


I was rewatching the episode and Charlotte mentions something intriguing during her ramblings and I don't remember it being said on the board.

"You know what my mom would say about me marrying an American."

Also, it's been pointed out earlier that the flashes originally happened at opportune time, as if dictated by the island. But now we've seen many random ones, especially in this episodes.

I would venture a suggestion to those who still want to believe the skips are the island's doing: there are still survivors and events surrounding them are what causes the seemingly irrelevant jumps. So from Locke & Co.'s perspective, these jumps are random, but perhaps Rose & Bernard almost died/changed something and the island reacted.

Could Widmore have killed Locke and Ben is doing Locke's work and is again one of the "good guys"?

Just food for thought until next week.

Miss Scarlett said...

it’s taking them an AWFULLY long time to get there

I think they are there already -- it's just taking a LONG time for the show to take US there!

You know, I’ve often wondered if Locke made some mistake about letting Ben turn the wheel. Eek.

I knew it right away! Ben. He's up to something that one.

this might be the first time we see Locke willingly lie to someone.


Well actually, he doesn't agree to anything until Jin said "don't bring baby". So maybe Locke was going to get Sun but not Ji Yeon. One thing we do know - Locke didn't give Sun the ring or even mention Jin being dead or alive when he saw her. So...he did keep his word either way.

Jolly good, pip pip, let’s all to the batcaves!” Huh?

She said it would have to do for now. I guess she will do what she can and hope Ben gets the rest later!

M9 EGO said...

Hi All, As I am in the UK I have to suffer until Sunday nights to see LOST , so I always have stacks of comments to read after the episode airs!
One thought I have had is about the Daniel/Charlotte scene where she tells hime about the strange old man telling her never to come back when she was a little girl. Did anyone notice that Daniel looks shocked and confused (?). If he had gone back in time with the faint hope of changing the future by telling Charlotte not to come back why would he looked shocked ? I can think of two reasons, (1) The strange man was not Daniel...maybe someone who looked like him...his father ?..or (2)Daniel remembers telling a young girm this but she was not called Charlotte at the time . So she could me someone else more important. Having seen Christian again I still think Jack has more importance than we think..if you think about the family Christian , Jack , Claire and Aaron....an important family in the story.

M9 EGO said...

Also you guys with HD etc whats going on in the trailer for Episode 6, there's a bit at the beginning when there's a few brief flashes of various scenes. I managed to pause it on one and there are two men (one topless) and it looks like some if poking there finger into his chest.....have a look ?!

M9 EGO said...

Just reading back through the comments about possibly Charlottes dad being Horace Goodspeed....excellent idea....they have matching hair !

Benny said...

@M9: the more popular thought on Daniel is that the Daniel who spoke to young Charlotte is a future Dan from where we stand right now. He doesn't remember because he hasn't said it yet.

On can think of a jump leading them to a time on the island when Charlotte is young, at which point Daniel tells her not to come back or she'd died. Some expect that they actually get stuck in the past, which would explain how Daniel ends up working for DHARMA.

SonshineMusic said...

Just one more thought about the island being stuck. It could explain why the Dharma food drop didn't arrive until the Losties get it in Season 2? It seems like an excessive delay, but is it possible that it was sent back when the Dharma group was still there, but it didn't arrive until Season 2? Or perhaps the island allowed it to land there because of Hurley's food struggle :P

Benny said...

For viewers in Canada, A TV has a new promo out for '316' and it is quite revealing. They don't have it on their website but I'm sure you can find it online somewhere.

Jazzygirl said...

Yep, I saw Bernard on Grey's Anatomy too. :-p Don't worry, he had cancer is going to die. So not a long-term role. ;)
Also, my friend who is vacationing in FL right now (and is a Lost fan), sent me a pic message of a sign for a restaurant named "Walt's Fish Shack". Sooooo, I guess we now know what happened to Walt!! LOL!! (Just figured I'd add some comedy while we're waiting for Wed night!)

doyousmellcarrots said...

In season 2 ben had a conversation with locke that led to this exchange

GALE: God doesn't know.

LOCKE: Excuse me?

GALE: God doesn't know how long we've been here, John. He can't see this island any better than the rest of the world can.

I know that ben was manipulating locke at that point but it is still ironic that the dharma station designed to find out when and where the island is, is located under a church and ran by a women with as of yet unexplained connections to a Scottish monk

thomwade said...

"Don: It's a really good point. A few of us mentioned it last week in the comments, and I suggested Charlotte's been there the longest, followed by Miles, etc. in order of when their noses start bleeding. But Locke is immune, just like Alpert is. It definitely means something, that's for sure!"

Actually,so far, I would say that Alpert and the rest of the Others are not moving through time. It appears the folks making the jumps are only the freighter folk and the 815 folks. Juliet was brought to the Island. But so far, I see nothing to suggest Alpert is moving through the time jumps, but he clearly knows Locke *is*, because he seemed certain that Lock was going to meet an earlier version of himself.


"Just one more thought about the island being stuck. It could explain why the Dharma food drop didn't arrive until the Losties get it in Season 2?"

No, the food drops were going on before the Losties arrived, they were happening regularly when Desmond was in the hatch.

Benny said...

Now I'm not trying to shoot down anything but just to apply the brakes a little bit so we don't jump too fast to any conclusion. And it's pretty much what I always try to do. Devil's advocate if you will.

But right now I'm seeing this on every blog: "Locke is immune to the time jumps because he hasn't had any nosebleeds".

But neither has Jin: does this mean Jin is immune as well? I'm not denying that Locke is 'special' in a certain way, but I really think this is one that we won't get an answer to.

Remember that Sawyer only started bleeding after 11 known jumps out of 14 total we've see, and it was after the two consecutive ones. For all we know, Jin and Locke would have gotten theirs after the next (Jin still might), but since Locke is likely off the island, it will have to fall into the 'mysteries that won't get answered' list.

And that's MY two cents; I know you have yours!

SonshineMusic said...

@thomwade: No, the food drops were going on before the Losties arrived, they were happening regularly when Desmond was in the hatch.

But Dharma hasn't been a presence on the island for a long time. There are no current experiments going on, so why would a group that is no longer there continue to drop food for someone they don't know and that they hadn't brought?

Brian Douglas said...

SonshineMusic: "But Dharma hasn't been a presence on the island for a long time. There are no current experiments going on, so why would a group that is no longer there continue to drop food for someone they don't know and that they hadn't brought?"

The food drops were for the Swan residents.

Nikki Stafford said...

Wow, you guys continue to astound me. I love your comments!! (and since I always name the people who comment on my Lost blogs in the acknowledgements of my books, I'm thinking the next book will have a thank-you page several pages long...)

I won't respond to everything, because I see others are already, but just a few:

Michael: Welcome to the blog!

Benny: Excellent point about Jin's nose not bleeding. I considered that already, and wondered about it. Do we assume the the earlier your nose begins bleeding, the longer you've been on the island? It stands to reason Charlotte's would bleed first, and then Miles (if he really is the baby we saw in the premiere -- which, at this point, of course, is purely speculation), and then Juliet, but why Sawyer? Why is his bleeding if he's been as long on the island as Locke? Has he been before? Of all the characters, I never thought Sawyer would play a big role in the longer-term picture of this, if you know what I mean. Jack's father is Christian, Kate is taking care of Aaron, Locke is the chosen one, Hurley has the numbers, but Sawyer just seemed to be someone who was there and was entertaining, and not someone who was meant to come to the island. But maybe he'll surprise me. :)

Benny said...

Nikki: I hadn't considered that before. It would be a nice turn of events and possibly character development for Sawyer. And instead of having a reveal with a character we don't know, it's more of a reveal with with someone we didn't really expect.

I just thought that there were three factors affecting nosebleeds:
1) time spent on the island (Charlotte)
2) proximity to a given discharge (Desmond)
3) Mental strength to the shifts, how well your mind can resist

And it is that third point that I would declare as the reason for Jin and Locke not bleeding yet. Jin was unconscious for many jumps, while Locke is special and has a stronger resistance.

I always go the more rational route, but your Sawyer-focused explanation is definitely more interesting.

SenexMacdonald said...

Eedeem147 said...
Forgot to mention that the hieroglyphics on the temple were Egyptian, as were those on the display in the hatch. Were they the same ones? Could they be the numbers?

And why Egyptian?


Why not? They have shown that the ancient Egyptians had the ability to have sailed across the Atlantic. What was to stop them from sailing around the Cape of Good Hope and head towards the Pacific instead?

Very feasible...in my humble opinion. I am not at all bias being married to an Egyptian Canadian or loving all things Egyptian. Nope. Just feasible.

Danny said...

I have nothing of importance to say... but I am so excited for tonight's episode!!

Great write up(s) Nikki!!! This site is the first place I visit immediately after each show. Can't wait to see what observations you make tonight!