Wednesday, April 15, 2009

Lost 5:13 "Some Like It Hoth"

Wow. If Lost's casual fans were confused before, this episode must have sent them over the edge. Norse gods fighting for island supremacy, the revelation of the DI experiment to find out if a tauntaun can actually live in tropical conditions, Marilyn Monroe appearing on the island (with Sawyer and Jin in drag next to her???) AND Robert Palmer singing on the beach?

Yep, Darlton have officially lost it.

Nope, I have officially not seen it. But this is my fantasy version of the episode. :)

As mentioned in my post yesterday, I'm currently in England, and will be downloading it Thursday morning to watch and comment on some time on Thursday. But until then, the boards are officially open for you to comment. I hope it was a good one!! Two weeks 'til the next one. I can't believe this season is almost over. :::sniffle:::


Hey all! Spent the day at Tintern Abbey (which is breathtaking) and White Castle (which had a TWO-WAY road that was narrower than my driveway -- and I'm really, really not joking about that -- that we followed for 5 miles to get to it, and I think I left imprints of my fingers on the dashboard, like Steve Martin in Planes, Trains, and Automobiles) and now we're in Hay-on-Wye. It's pouring buckets, but it's lovely.

Anyway, we coughdownloadedcough the episode this morning and I've only watched it once, then went to dinner, and now I'm back. My husband's succinct response: "Entertaining, but insignificant." Mine was a litle more positive. I thought it was fun, and I thought there were lots of clues and numbers and such in the background, I turned off my email this morning so I wouldn't see spoilers, and when I went into blogger to edit my post and post this, it says there are 60 comments! You guys rock! (And you're worrying me that you don't need me at all!!) So here's my post, and I'm seriously crossing my fingers you guys didn't already catch every single word I'm about to say. I am now off to read comments!!!

Lost: 5.13 “Some Like It Hoth”

I see dead people... walking around like regular people...
OK. Miles. I have a few questions about how he does what he does. Miles needs to have some sort of contact with the body of the deceased. He needed to dig up Rousseau and Karl. He needed to be taken to Naomi’s body. He cannot communicate with a kid who’s been cremated and his ashes scattered. He needs to climb into the back of the van and unzip Alvarez before he can find out his horrific story about tooth fillings. So why, back in “Confirmed Dead,” was he able to go into a guy’s room and talk to him? The body wasn’t sitting in the bed. He wasn’t sitting over the guy’s grave. Is it because the guy was haunting the room? At first I thought, OK, maybe Grandma cremated him, but instead of scattering the ashes, she has them in an urn downstairs. But I’m thinking the ghost idea might be something. He really is haunting the room (he moves the dresser at one point to reveal the vent for Miles) so maybe the closeness of the ghost allows him to talk to him.

Order of Events
So as soon as I saw Miles dealing with the guy who wants to know if his son knew he loved him (another example, like Roger a couple of weeks ago, of a lousy father looking for absolution), I remembered the incident in “Confirmed Dead” with the grandson. But one thing I mentioned at the time was the fact that when Miles pulls up in front of Grandma’s house in the car, he’s listening to a news report saying the bodies of Flight 815 have been recovered at the bottom of the ocean, and he stares at the radio for a moment like he knows it’s not real. So does the grandma scene happen after Naomi has met with him? He goes to see Felix, he figures out that Felix had info about purchasing a plane and digging up bodies, and next thing he hears about a plane found with lots of bodies. Hm...

“How do you spell ‘bounty hunter’?”
Because I’m watching this episode only once before writing this, I took a few notes while writing them. One of them, written near the beginning of this episode, was, “Bounty hunter? As in Boba Fett?” Then a scene later when Hurley takes a major interest in Pierre being Miles’s dad, I wrote, “What was Hurley writing, Star Wars fanfic? Is the Darth Vader/Luke thing making him interested in Pierre/Miles?” Turns out, yep! Well, no on the fanfic thing. What the writers came up with was WAY funnier than what I did.

• Miles explaining to Radzinsky that he’s in the circle of trust, and Radzinsky cutting him off before he can get the sentence out of his mouth.
• “It’ll help with global warming. Which hasn’t happened yet, so... maybe we can prevent it.”
• Hurley’s reaction when Miles says maybe the smell is caused by his special garlic mayo. “Dude, that’s not possible. OK, maybe it is possible.”
• Hurley to Miles: “You’re just jealous my power’s better than yours.”
• Hurley wondering if Marvin Candle is a stage name.
• Jack doing the janitorial work he’s suited for. (Teehee!!)
• Hurley making small talk in the van and trying to get Pierre and Miles to be buds.
• The look former punk Miles gives Dad when he discovers he likes country music. Ha!
• Hurley’s grand Empire plan. Wicked.
• Sawyer: “Get some rope.”
• “Let’s face it. Ewoks suck, dude.”
• Daniel!!!!!!

Did You Notice?:
• I loved Sawyer’s little line where he’s trying to impress Kate by saying, “In case you hadn’t noticed, I’m head of security.” I do miss the swagger and arrogance that once accompanied it, though. Maybe the guy really HAS grown up a lot in the last 3 years. Too bad...
• If you were paying close attention, you would have noticed that Miles’s mom was the same woman we saw at the very beginning of the episode, rousing Pierre Chang from sleep and telling him to go check on the baby. So it was a bit of a “duh” moment when Miles announced Chang was his daddy later in the ep, but only for some viewers.
• When punk Miles goes to see his dying mother, there’s a portrait of two horses on the wall. One is brown, like Widmore’s, and the other is black, like Kate’s.
• Naomi is clearly wearing a wig. The actress has probably cut her hair short since filming and needed to wear it long again.
• Well, after seeing Roger and Kate in this episode, we can probably forget about that wonderful budding Kager ship.
• Naomi says that Felix was delivering documents of photos of empty open graves and a purchase order for an old plane. These would be the same documents that Tom showed Michael in “Meet Kevin Johnson.”
• The classroom where Jack is cleaning the boards appears to be the same one we saw in “The Man Behind the Curtain.”
• Oops: when Roger kicks the bucket across the classroom, Jack has only erased a panel and a half of the chalkboard, but when the camera goes back to him 2 seconds later, it’s completely erased.
• What he was erasing was the studies of the Ancient Egyptians. You can see the words “Writing on the words of God” written on the board, then some hieroglyphics below it much like the ones we saw in the Swan, and then the topic has been broken down into three subcategories: Old/Middle/Late Egyptians. The Late Egyptians were around from 1300-700BC, according to the board. Could this have been Alpert’s era? Or earlier?
• There’s a child’s picture of a butterfly on the classroom wall, just like there were butterflies in Hurley’s institution common room.
• I assumed when Miles and Hurley pulled up to the Swan station that he was at the Swan station (someone mentions that Radzinsky is there and we know that he built the model and has a vested interest in the station being built properly).
• Bram, the dude from Dexter who pulls Miles into the van and tells him to work for another group, is on the island with Ilana. In last week’s episode, he’s the one who holds the gun up to Frank as Ilana asks him what lies in the shadow of the statue.
• Somewhere inside there, Miles has a teeny tiny heart. He gives the man back his money (only to rip out his heart after doing it). He also gives back the grandmother’s money in “Confirmed Dead.”
• We’d figured out long ago (Because You Left) that Chang’s baby was probably Miles, so that wasn’t a huge surprise. But we’d also suggested that maybe Ben couldn’t go to 1977 because he couldn’t exist with his younger self. That’s now off the table, so there must be a more interesting reason why he can’t go back.
• There was a moment when Dan first stepped off the sub where I thought he was going to look at Miles and say, “And you are...?” Anyone else thinking that?

Hurley’s numbers:
The time on the microwave at the beginning of the episode is 3:16. (Also the Ajira flight number, obviously.) The first dead man Miles hears is in apartment 4. Sawyer tells Miles to destroy the tape from security monitor #4. When Kate shows up, Roger’s had 4 beers. Miles and Hurley were in Van #8. Naomi offers Miles $1.6 million. (And now we see why Miles asked Ben for $3.2 million... which is not only double 16, but 23 backwards, as I mentioned in my book.)

So Many Questions...
• So Miles clearly got his ability from the island, but how? Is it like Desmond, that he had some sort of involvement with the electromagnetic energy and can see dead people in the way Des can see the future? Is Miles’s mother dying of cancer because of her exposure to the radiation?
• Here’s a question I have for the folks who have seen the ep more than once (or who recognized the guy immediately) but have we seen that Russell Brand-looking dude named Alvarez before? Was he there on the big DI recruitment day?
• Miles says that the body is Alvarez, and his filling shot out of his mouth and into his brain (MAN, what a way to die. If your fillings could pull out of your mouth that way, I’d be dead within seconds of being on that island... dammit mom, you shouldn’t have given me that much candy as a kid!!) Is it because of the electromagnetic radiation? If he’s with Radzinsky, then he’s at the Swan, and maybe the guy was too close to whatever it was that Desmond blew up at the end of season 2. (Which we have suggested before in the comments is likely Jughead.)
• How did Tom get Widmore’s documents? Is he the guy who killed Felix?
• In season 4, Ben shows Locke a videotape of a man being beaten in an alleyway, and Widmore steps out of a car and looks up at the person filming. Is Felix the man who was being beaten? Is it possible BEN was the guy who bought the plane and opened the graves, and Widmore intercepted the documents? And Tom either got them back or got another set? Or did Tom get the documents, and Widmore killed him on the videotape because he'd screwed up?
• So who’s Bram? I don’t think he’s with Ben, and he’s definitely not with Widmore, as we all assumed after last week’s episode. I’m thinking there’s a third group, a “What Lies in the Shadow of the Statue” group. Who are they? Are the Shadow Seekers some sort of third splinter group? Are they the DI who survived? (They look a little young for that.) Are they the Others, just wanting to take their island back? Are they someone completely different?
• Where has Daniel been? He certainly looks a lot healthier and happier than we’ve seen him up to this point. Did he take a sub off the island and do any time traveling? Or visit his younger self? Or Eloise? Is it possible he’s starting to ignore his own advice, and believes you can change time? Could he have been trying to eff with things when he was off the island?

Next week: No new episode, but a clip show. But in two weeks... new episode!!


lostie 815 said...

I knew it mile pa was Dr.candel/wick/chang and Dan coming out of the sub!!!!!! Holy crap!

lostie815 said...

Miles and Hurley provied some comic releaf in this eposode it is good to see the writers have found a new(comic) pal for Hurley since charlie died AND THE STARWARS STUFF CLASSIC

lostie 815 said...

So HURLEY WROTE starwars ep 5 awsome

Jazzygirl said...

So I'm going to post now because I can never post for days after an episode airs and everyone has already said everything by then!
So, it was nice to get the Miles flashbacks. And of course, it confirms that he's Chang's son, which we knew. This is one to re-watch for those minute details that were sprinkled everywhere...especially the chalkboard that Jack was erasing. It was loaded with Egyptian stuff.
Off the cuff, here are my preliminary comments and questions:
1) So, you CAN exist simultaneously with your younger self? This has come up a lot on's been the main theory as to why Ben and possibly Sun did not return to the island in 1977 time. So I guess that's busted?
2) This one may seem silly but I remember being confused as to WHO exactly faked the plane crash on the bottom of the ocean. At one point we all said Widmore, then it seemed it might have been Ben to protect the island. But Widmore was linked to the graves and the plane. And even now, I'm not clear. I guess Naomi was working for Widmore directly since the guys in the van tried to talk Miles out of it. But it almost seemed like SHE might have been the one to shoot the guy in the body bag who was carrying the documents and pictures that Miles picked up on. And where have I seen that guy in the van passenger seat before?
3) Dan at the we go again with time travel and paradoxes, etc. LOL!!
4) Can't wait to see Benny's take on the Dharma camp since Jack did not walk towards Kate's house when he left Sawyer at the end.
5) How is punching what's his face at the end a long term solution? Saywer just guaranteed blowing their cover!
Favorite moment:
Hurley to Miles - "You're just jealous my powers are better than yours."
Hurley writing Empire!?? LOL!!!

Benny said...

"Hey Miles. Long time no see."This was a great revealing episode in terms of Miles's backstory. But it also presented some intriguing divides with regards to Naomi, Widmore, Ilana and... Daniel Faraday.

The cold open reveal: From the onset we learn that Miles is, in fact, Dr Chang's son. We soon realize that he's never known him and, despite a 1.6 million paycheque to join Naomi's team, Ilana's people reveal themselves as a different alternative.

Hurley eventually realizes, as we have, that the Swan is currently being built. The presence of electromagnetism that shot a man's filling through his head should be indication of the properties of that spot. A spot where DHARMA should not be. This will undoubtedly lead to some confrontations.

But what comes out of this episode is the idea that someone cannot live in the past where his younger self is alive. The one shot of both Miles should prove this wrong. So what would be the exact reason for Ben and Sun not being brought to the past. Ben has to be judged and perhaps is also forbidden from traveling (as discussed last week). But what about Sun?

We now know how Tom got the Widmore information to show Michael. He took it from Felix. It is still somewhat unclear whether Felix was just bringing it as requested or if this was proof of someone putting the blame on ol' Chuck. The fact that Ilana's right hand man seems to be on the opposite side of Naomi would suggest that they are working for two different factions. This is definitely a who's who of powerful warring hostiles.

The unfortunate collateral to Miles being recruited by Horace is that he didn't get to destroy the security tape, the same one Phil found. This looks to be an unfortunate incident for not only Phil but, as the sneak peak for next episode shows, the entire DHARMA group.

And as always, we are left with a final shot that leaves us asking some recurring question: Where has Dan been all this time. From Chang's comment, he's been at Ann Arbour. He now has a Swan logo on his jumpsuit and, this likely shows that Dan season opening scene was shot in 1977 or later (since baby Miles is three months old).

lostie 815 said...

When Hurley see the hatch cover and the evilNumbers the expression on his face another classic lost moment this why i watch this show!

Austin Gorton said...

I was expecting a bit of a letdown after last week's ep, but this actually pretty even: lighter hearted than "Dead Is Dead," sure, but not without some confirmations/revelations and some equally cool moments.

Quick, offhand thoughts/questions:

When Miles' mom was first looking at the apartment, the microwave read "3:16"; new flight, new numbers, apparently. :)

I enjoyed seeing Naomi again.

Now we know why Miles asked Ben for 3.2 million: it's twice what Widmore was paying him. But now we have to wonder what is so significant about 1.6 million.

The guy who accosted Miles in the van was on the Hydra island with Ilana last week. His conversation with Miles suggests that he's working for Ben, or a third faction.

Seeing the construction of the Swan and Hurley's realization thereof was very cool. So why was the Valenzetti Equation (the numbers) the serial number for the hatch door?

It was also fun to watch the Losties cover in '77 slowly unravel.

Any guesses on what Sawyer's going to do to Phil?

Can't wait to find out what Daniel's been up to!

Benny said...

You saw him last week on the Hydra island when Frank comes back.

Since Naomi is working for Abaddon and Abaddon for Widmore, I'd say Naomi is a lock for a Widmore camper, but as for the other guys (Bram and Ilana) it is really unclear whether they are another Widmore group or one of Ben's or even a third party.

To be honest I'll have to re-watch it since that's not quite what I was paying attention at.

My best ideas usually come after a second viewing.

As for my favorite moment:
"That's traditionally what you put in a body bag."

Michele said...

It's weird how things go sometimes. About 10 minutes before the end of the episode, I said, "jeez, it's been a long time since we've seen Daniel. When is he going to show up again?" Well, I got my answer!

Although Daniel likely did say, "Long time, no see," for a minute I thought he said "Wrong time, no see." In any other show, that would be completely absurd but in Lost? Could be a real line!

I liked the scene with Miles watching him and his father through the window. It confirmed to me what Hurley had said to him earlier - that he was hurt because his dad had left. It also makes me wonder what happened with Miles' parents? Chang seems so happy with Miles but the Mom told Miles that his dad had moved out and never cared. How did she get off the island and how does she know that Chang is dead and buried somewhere that Miles can never find him?

Questions, questions.

Grimalkin said...

Random note: 1.6 million is one of the numbers. 3.2 million is not.
My favorite quote? Probably "That douche is my father."

Hunter said...

When the Future-Losties arrived, did Sawyer say a new batch of recruits wasn't due back for 6 months or that the sub wasn't due back for 6 months? Because clearly it made another trip in like 3 days.

lostie 815 said...


Benny said...

@Hunter: almost a nice catch on wording but I just checked and he did say "there ain't another new batch of recruits due in for 6 months".

Soooo close! Would have been a nice one.

Brian Douglas said...

Grimalkin: 3.2 is 23 backwards.

Hunter: the sub was bringing in the super secret staff for the Swan station.

lostie 815 said...

Benny, i have a dr. candel speaks porrly of the experiments on Hydra isle why do you think he said this?

Benny said...

@lostie815: I figure that, since Ann Arbour is calling the shots, Hydra is the zoological station and, since Chang is a hardcore scientist, he looks down on those 'polar bear' experiments (acclimatizing).

Horace seems to be in charge of DI admin/security (he's with the Arrow) while Chang is in charge of the physical science side of things, a sub group of the DI. There are likely division fighting for funding of their research/development.

Olessi said...

We have previously had multiple versions of a character existing in the same time period. Remember in "The Little Prince" when Sawyer sees Kate acting as midwife to Claire and Locke seeing the hatch light in the distance? The corresponding versions of themselves still existed at that time- Locke decided, however, it would be best to avoid encountering "himself".

If you remember from the Orchid Orientation video (2007 Comic Con), Dr. Chang expressly tells his staff not to allow the two rabbits to be near each other. I'm assuming that if adult Miles were to hold baby Miles (as per Hurley's suggestion) bad things would result...

Unknown said...

Hey Nikki we miss you! My blog is up for folks who want some comments although I had nothing to complain about this week. Hope you'll pay me a visit at

nikki, ill send my regulars to you on april 29. joe cocker tickets!!!
gimme a ticket for an aeroplane...

Deb said...

another great episode;another great recap!

fb said...

my favourite moment of the episode: when hurley asked dr chang if he liked jazz and he replied that his wife did, and that he liked country. miles's face was PRICELESS. it was the face of any kid who has been mortified by something their parent has said to their friend -- ha!

i was also wondering where i saw the guy in the black van before, but not on LOST (i knew he was a member of ilana's crew), i couldn't place him from somewhere else that i'd seen him. then it hit me: if anyone watches dexter, he's tony tucci, the victim the ice truck killer left alive in season 1 that dexter found in the basement of the abandoned hospital.

Deb said...

OK,I guess I've been caught in a lie. I posted my previous comment (anothergreat episode; another great recap) before watching the episode or reading Nkkki's post. It is so much easier to read all of your posts in email form so I pre-posted so as to get the emails started sooner.

It was a great episode though. I liked getting Miles' back story. Loved his answer when Hurley asked him when he figured out Chang was his dad:"cuz on our third day here I was standing behind my mom in line at the cafeteria." The opening scene with young Miles broke my heart.

Looking forward to your recap Nikki. Enjoy London. I have a friend who was just there who saw War Horse and said it was phenomenal. It is the one with the horse "puppets" that look astonishingly real.

Nurse Brian said...

Wait... was that Rufio from Hook? ...NOPE, just Miles as a punk-teenager. CARRY ON.

@teebore: I really like the idea of a third faction... possibly lead by Daniel Faraday?

batcabbage said...

Frakkin' brilliant. I love this series! It just keeps getting better and better.

In regard to the 'younger self can't exist' argument: I thought this was actually disproved when the time-travelling losties ended up in the time when Claire was having her baby (in episode 4 of this season). That was when Sawyer overheard Kate and Claire, and when Locke came up behind Sawyer and they both saw the light shinging out of the hatch. Locke was there, watching the light with Sawyer, and he was also over the hatch. Therefore, of course you can exist on island at the same time as your younger (in this case, only a few months) self. So the fact that you could exist with your younger self on the island didn't even occur to me - it was just accepted, because it had already happened in episode 4.

And let me just say yay for Miles! I've been hoping for a Miles-centric episode for a while now, and I've not been disappointed. He and Sawyer have the majority of the best lines in this series, and I'm really pleased with the way this ep played out. Hurley was also excellent this ep. Garlic seaweed mayo? Sweeeeeeet. And the Miles/Luke comparison? I almost passed out from my geekgasm. "Ewoks suck, dude." Right on, my brother.

Oh, and I would like to say YES! TAUN-TAUNS, NOT NORSE GODS! HA!!!!!

@ Nik: Sorry for stepping on your Robert Palmer joke. I'll make it up to you, somehow. :)

PS Just watching the ep for a second time now, and there's another Egyptian reference: when Roger first stumbles into the classroom Jack is wiping the blackboard down in (and he does it incredibly quickly), it seems that they're learing about Egyptian history. From what I can decipher on pause, it seems to say this:

Old Egyptian:
2600BC to 2000BC
Tripling ideograms, phonograms (we think)
and determinatives

Middle Egyptian:
2000BC to 1300BC
Classic stage of language

Late Egyptian:
1300BC to 700BC
(obscured) to an(obscured)

batcabbage said...

By the way, the (we think) in the Egyptian part of my previous comment was referring to me and my girlfriend, Batkitty (I have just named her thusly). That brackets bit wasn't written on the board. Just a clarification. :)

R.S said...

Have fun in the U.K Nikki! Speaking of travelling I won't be able to read the blog for the rest of the season as I'll be in Europe too. I'll count myself lucky if I even get to see the last remaining episodes (on time) - oh the pain of it all.

Great Episode. On the surface I think it could be seen as a pretty standard episode (I loved it because I really enjoy Miles) but actually a lot of answers are given.

Having now seen the episode I thought it might have been better if the break was after "Dead is dead" it would have been huge to go out on such a high. No break is of course better but we almost needed a 2 full weeks to digest that episode.

- I just have to say as soon as Hurley asked Miles how to spell bounty hunter I just knew inside it was a Star Wars reference. I thought if Hurley is writing The Empire Strikes Back that would be hilarious. There no way I can prove I though it but I can't believe I picked it.

Ever since we found out the Losties present was 1977 I immediately though of the biggest thing that happened that year - the release of Star Wars. Since then I've been waiting for someone (Sawyer or Hurley) to make mention of it.

- I never really gave much credence to the Chang = Miles father theory I always thought it was a bit contrived. Of course when the reveal came I wasn't surprised. Now that the truth is out and we've seen the circumstances I don't mind it at all. I'm a bit sad though because I don't think there any more background to be given on Miles :(

- Pierre Chang is a douche and I haven't really liked him since the opening scene of season 5 and he was through his weight around and being a general ass. I doesn't help that I think he's a very ordinary actor.

But... I think this is setting us up. I think we are meant to believe he's an ass and it's no wonder he kicked he's wife and newborn son out. Why? I think Chang will find out through the Losties that Dharma is doomed as is he and there's nothing he can do about it. But at the very least he'll expel his family for there own safety under the guise he doesn't love them and wants them gone.

- so we found out why Miles wanted 3.2 million dollars. I though the offer from Naomi of 1.6 million was enough and they didn't need to spell it out for us with the scene in the van with Bram.

- By the way Bram is a giant douche bag. I do not like him.

- Why 1.6 million? I had the thought that depending on the currency values and exchange rate in 2004 1 million Pounds could equal 1.6 million US Dollars.

The exchange rate is 1.49 today in 2009.

- Back to Bram. This pretty much confirms in my eyes that he and Ilana are not working for Widmore. If not whom? I was certain they were a week ago.

- Also it's confirmed in my eyes that Tom/Ben was not lying and Widmore was responsible for the decoy plane and bodies.

- Also put to rest was the building of the swan station. We though how could Dharma build it with the war going on with the hostiles. Now we know. It's still a stretch that the hostiles don't know but the fact it's being done in secret is good enough for me.

- Radzinsky (sp?) is an ass. The fact we know his fate is comforting.

- I really thought we'd never get an explanation why the numbers were on the hatch and I never really wanted one, but it was nice to see Hurley's reaction.

- As soon as Chang mentioned the scientist at the dock I knew it was Faraday (yay!) So Daniel probably took the sub that Juliet was going to be on to take himself out of the crazy old man scenario with young Charlotte. But 3 years later he is no longer mourning and is back. Cool.... and whatever happens, happens.

@ Nurse Brian - you don't see a Hook reference every day, nice!

And that's my thoughts for this episode.

I'll you leave you with the thought that Miles was potentially only a few houses away when his parents were making him, ewwwwwwww.

Grimalkin said...

I noticed that when Hurley says that he could send the Empire script to Lucas with "improvements", he obviously believes that these "improvements" would be implemented. As he did in the discussion earlier, Hurley still believes that the past can be changed.

asiancolossus said...

Hiya Nik, I look forward to your posting and hope you are having an awesome time in England!

Isn't Ken Leung a wonderful actor? His punk phase reminded me a lot of Claire when she was younger in her goth phase. I can't help but wonder if his character will get killed off as he is trying to resolve his daddy issues, which as we all know is the Lost kiss of death!

I wonder what event or events led to Dr. Chang abandoning his wife and Miles?

Nice interplay between Hurley and Miles. I love it when Lost puts characters together you haven't seen together beforehand.

So what does lie in the shadow of the statue? Ilana and Bram are working together, but its gotta be for Ben, right? Since Bram and thugs didn't want Miles to go to the island.

What a boneheaded move by Kate talking with Roger, but I know she has developed a softie side after Aaron.

Can we kill off Radzinsky now? I find his character slimy LOL

In general, as much as I love having the characters together, I have to say that there doesn't seem to be a common goal for the Losties since they morphed back into the 70s. What is their ultimate aim now? At first, it was to get back home, then it was to get back to the island, but now, is their goal just to survive Dharma and the Hostiles? I do miss those days where they had a common goal. Perhaps many of you disagree with me. I'm still LOVING this show big time, don't get me wrong. I think this season is mostly filling the gap on the mythology of the island.

Elle said...

Love your blog, Nikki. Long time first time. I admit, I'm guilty of not reading every single comment (forgive me) but what are the general thoughts on Bram and Ilana being Dharma? Bram in the van, last night, seemed all enlightened and kind of Dharma-esque. I wonder if the Degrouts (?sp) and others from DHARMA are trying to get back on the island? I know 95% of Lost fans are very smart so I know I'm not the only one to think this. I was just curious what the concensus was. Cheers!

swac said...

I wonder what event or events led to Dr. Chang abandoning his wife and Miles?Obviously there will be more interplay between Dr. Chang and Miles, and it's not hard to imagine Miles warning him of the Purge and persuading him to send his wife and son away.

Either that or Miles has an affair with his mom, causing his parents to split up. (j/k)

Paticus said...

elle- you beat me...I think that Bram and Ilana are working for the Dharma Initiative.

Austin Gorton said...

Wait... was that Rufio from Hook? ...NOPE, just Miles as a punk-teenager. CARRY ON.Ha! That was my hearty laugh for the morning. Love Hook references!

I wonder what event or events led to Dr. Chang abandoning his wife and Miles?

I'm with R.S., I think Chang somehow finds out about the upcoming destruction of Dharma (suggested by last summer's comicon video)and sends his wife and son away to save them. And since she won't leave without him, he has to anger her to get her to leave.

(By the way, I absolutely loved how matter-of-fact Miles was about the whole "that's my dad" thing. The fact that he found out when waiting in line in the cafeteria, off screen, shortly after they arrived in the 70s, is great, and really fits the character well.)

I like the idea of Bram and Ilana as members of a new DI, a third faction. It certainly fits in principle with last summer's "Dharma recruiting drive." While most of the offseason ARGs are simply meant to keep the Lost fires burning during hiatus, they seem to have some connection, in general, to the events of the following season (Find815 led into the whole fake plane plot, and while we didn't see the first Orchid video, as presented, on the show, the Orchid became quite important thereafter).

Elle said...

Cool! I'm glad my mention of Ilana=Dharma isnt receiving Lost Fan Flung Poo (albeit, YET). ha!

I love the Lost ARGs and I agree- it would be cool if that came into play, or at a minimum, came in handey in understanding the show even more.

Ali Bags said...

@swac it's not hard to imagine Miles warning him of the Purge and persuading him to send his wife and son away.I think that's exactly what will happen. Miles's mom didn't say Chang left them, she said he threw them out, which was an interesting way to say it and I'm convinced he does it to save them from the purge. He may be a douche but in that scene with Chang and baby Miles, he clearly adores his son. (was that a cool Dharma onesie or babygro little Miles was wearing?)

Did any one else think Jack was using his Jedi skills on Roger Workman when he told him Kate wouldn't harm his son?

Ali Bags said...

Also, a nit pick, oone second the board in the classroom is still fairly covered with Egyptian notes, the next second it's totally clean. That Jack really is best suited to be a janitor!

Benny said...

remember last year when the O6 were spread all over the place (camp/Orchid/freighter) and they eventually just came together to escape?

I think/hope the writers are building something similar. Everyone's kind of lost in why they came back and what they should do, but it will probably all come clear by the end of the season.

Alison said...

someone was wondering where the actor who played Bram came from (outside of Lost). He played Owen on the ABC show October Road that was cancelled last year.

scotminusT said...

Lots of interesting things under the surface of that episode.

I can't help thinking that all these children returning to the island is significant in a larger sense and ties back to the inability for women to give birth later on. I wonder if Ilana and her crew were also children on the island at one point.

My running hypothesis for Sun's location in time is that she was meant to leave the island before the FDW was spun, whereas the other four weren't. I can't help feeling that it relates to Alex's death, the changing of the rules, and course correction. Hopefully Dan the man will shed some light in a couple of weeks!

Benny said...

Miles finds the body in room #4He finds the hidden key in a Bunny hide-a-key

Hurley's global warming comment + The Empire Strike Back script = he wants to change things
-He wants to destroy the Swan before it's built.

Love Will Keep Us Together by Captain & Tenille is playing in the van as Miles and Hurley approach the Orchid to see Chang.

Hurley saying he can keep a secret, HIGH-larious.

Chang is working at the Orchid but already has the Swan lab coat.

Hurley's comment regarding the ewoks... just horrible. I now officially discredit Hurley with everything he says. Ewoks are genius little furry creatures. His 'improvements' to Empire would probably destroy the movie and discredit Kershner's credibility in filmmaking.

That Bram and Ilana have a code question is similar to Kelvin and Desmond with the snowman reference, which indicates DHARMA. But the way he talks about teams and how's he's on the one that's going to win, I'm not so convinced he's DHAMRA. His demeanor and attitude/confidence is more characteristic of a warring faction such as Charles or Ben.
Unless the next episodes show a distinct evolution of DHARMA and its joining this war for the island. The possibility of a third (non-DI) party still seems a decent possibility as well.

Benny said...

Sorry for the lack of intro to the previous post. They are just some more notes.

Austin Gorton said...

Hurley's global warming comment + The Empire Strike Back script = he wants to change things
-He wants to destroy the Swan before it's built.
Agreed. Hurley is definitely not buying what Miles is selling regarding "what happened, happened."

So what are the odds that something Hurley does (or convinces someone to do) towards the goal of preventing the Swan from being built, is (part of) the cause of the Incident, which leads to the need for the button, and Desmond not pushing it, and Flight 815 crashing, and everything Hurley is trying to change in the first place?

yourblindspot said...

My impressions…

“Well… here we go.”I thought Juliet’s line to Kate as Roger Linus runs off to stir the hornet’s nest characterized this moment in the LOST timeline very accurately – this is where the ball really starts to roll downhill for Our Heroes In Dharmaland. That’s one of the things I liked the most about this episode – it had great momentum.

The Numbers were all over the place tonight, so please forgive me if I was feeling somewhat preconditioned to overanalyze.

Does anyone else think LaFleur has been using the walkies a bit indiscriminately? Are walkie talkies so scarce on the compound that he need have no fear of someone listening in on their channel? Not too smart.

Sandwiches in back with the body = ewwww. Special garlic mayo notwithstanding.

For someone who likes to lie so much, Kate super sucks at it.

Initially thought the new Dharma logo on Hurley’s ‘Empire’ notebook was a reading Indian with a single feather before closer examination revealed it to be two stacked books with an apple on top. Wonder if this is the same one Olivia would wear as a teacher… (Sorry – I’m silly on the logos.)

I think it’s kinda sad that there are so very many parallels between Hurley’s and Miles’ backstories, and yet I missed it completely until they rubbed my nose in it like a bad puppy. (And, while we’re somewhat on the subject, the fact that Hurley seems strangely hesitant to use the word ‘fart’ in that first scene with he & Miles in the van totally cracked me up.)
Thought Jorge was great, and particularly awesome in that “if you only knew what I know” conversation with Chang as the three of them drive along. AND we finally got our ‘Some Like It Hot’ reference there, with the country music vs. jazz bit. More on that (and a crazy LOST research wormhole) in a minute.
My fave Hugo bon mot:
“You’re just jealous my power’s better than yours.” Dead right, Jazzygirl.
Speaking of dead, I am curious as to exactly why the dead body was taken to the Orchid. Surely they can’t (and wouldn’t) use its power yet to “disappear” anything like some kind of quantum garbage disposal, so what then? Just make it part of the building? Throw some dirt over it and then pour in the concrete? How gangsta – and to what end? Was it simply to hide the body, or also to hold it? To restrain it?
Miles’ impromptu questioning with Naomi’s restaurant corpse (Felix – the name means “happy” or “lucky”, har de har) would seem to indicate that Ben was in fact the perpetrator of the Oceanic recovery hoax after all. But does it? I would still find it staggering to learn he was capable of orchestrating something on that scale, and I still can’t quite believe it. SO the question becomes, is there a third faction (as some here have already been suggesting), and if so, then who the hell are they? Are Ilana, Bram, and their pals some powerful new kind of Others, fresh “Reconsitituted DI” recruits, or something we haven’t seen before? And doesn’t this open the possibility that Ben & Widmore might have to team up to defeat them in the endgame?
So, The Swan is being built in Hostile territory (how don’t they know about it?), and it would appear we are being led to believe it was the first meltdown at that site that will be the great Turning Point toward which we’ve all been traveling – the "incident" after which no babies can be born on the island, after which the button-pushing becomes necessary, the duplicate of which brings down Oceanic Flight 815, and what will probably be the big finale for this season. Who else thinks there might be some resulting time travel shenanigans? Show of hands…
Ah! That’s where Miles’ seemingly arbitrary $3.2 million figure came from. (Wow – ‘Eggtown’ seems forever ago.)
Little yawning baby = CUTE! It was about time they made up for the thing with the sandwiches.
Did anyone happen to catch what book Chang was reading to little Miles through the window? I missed it…
So Dan’s been stateside, studying with Dharma folk there… Has he been learning or teaching?
My mad free-association ramblings about the reference(s) of the ep’s title are forthcoming…

Benny said...

Yeah, I'd say the odds are pretty high of that. The incident will happen soon and will likely be a break in the electromagnetism barrier. The Swan's purpose will become containing that force.

Or the incident could be reinforcing the electromagnetism, the Swan's new purpose not changing.

Hisham Fahmy said...

I don't think Bram and Ilana are working for Ben. He put Michael on the freighter in the first place in order to learn the names of who's on board and collect files on them. So how did he know Miles was going to be on board?

Austin Gorton said...

For someone who likes to lie so much, Kate super sucks at it.Ha! Agreed. I thought the same thing. Though to be fair, I seem to recall that she's always kinda sucked at lying, especially for a "constantly on the run" fugitive. Sawyer she ain't, in that regard.

I am curious as to exactly why the dead body was taken to the Orchid.

I recall Horace telling Miles Dr. Chang needed to examine the body. Not sure why, exactly, but Chang is probably the DI's head scientist and needed to do an analysis of the body. Something he found led him to the Swan, after all.

As to what happened to the body after Chang did what he did with it, it's probably not important.

@Hisham: good point. Further evidence that Ilana/Bram are a third party.

SenexMacdonald said...

This one may seem silly but I remember being confused as to WHO exactly faked the plane crash on the bottom of the ocean. At one point we all said Widmore, then it seemed it might have been Ben to protect the island. But Widmore was linked to the graves and the plane. And even now, I'm not clear. I guess Naomi was working for Widmore directly since the guys in the van tried to talk Miles out of it.As has been previously discussed, it is a clear indication that Widmore was responsible for the plane being found under the ocean. The guys on the van... that is different. If memory serves me, Widmore spoke of a WAR to Locke. I am thinking we are seeing the beginnings for this. That another faction - be it a redone DI or something else - is rearing its head. That code phrase is key to identifying members. It will be interesting to see how this unravels. And I like the thought that off-season recruiting might be part of it. Very neat!

But what comes out of this episode is the idea that someone cannot live in the past where his younger self is alive. The one shot of both Miles should prove this wrong.Also as previously discussed, this has been shown to be incorrect. I think you can be in the same place. The danger would be in directly interacting with yourself. A lot of SF deals with that idea of co-existance - just no interaction.

So when Daniel comes back via the sub, does that truly indicate that he left the island? What if his slightly younger - by 3 years - self is still there? Looking forward to Daniel's explanation on this.

Hisham Fahmy said...

I now wonder if also Dan, Charlotte, and Frank were also approached by that "third party" or it was just Miles. What significance does Miles, least of all, have, apart from his ability to hear the dead?
And why didn't they just shoot him when he refused? Do they need him somehow, or are they, ahem, "good guys" who don't kill people?

Benny said...

@Teebore: In the Horace/Chang phone conversation, you can clearly hear Horace say "if it was caused by the electromagnetism, we need to know". So this is why Chang needed to see the body. As for disposal, workers can't know someone died when they were working on an "illegal" project.

@Senex: Dan does say "Long time no see". Since we haven't seen Dan in three years, I think he opted to be taken off the island via the sub when Horace first offered it.

Rebecca T. said...

I freakin' love this show. Hurley and Miles together are fantastic. The opening scene with young Miles just about broke my heart. It's no wonder he's become the sarcastic, abrasive person he is today..errr in the 70s?...It's a defense mechanism from having to hear dead people.

When Daniel stepped out of the sub for a moment I was wondering whether he was going to recognize Miles or not. I think we're going to discover that Daniels was born in a completely different time and every time we have seen him in the show he was time traveling.

@ Benny: Hurley's comment regarding the ewoks... just horrible.
Absoposolutely! I was like, Ewoks rock! what are you talking about Hurley?!

Re: Ilana and Bram - I have thought for a long time that there was a third power in this struggle. Dharma is a possibility, but there's one other thought I have that I haven't seen anyone else here say - Paik Industries. Maybe that's why Sun got left in 2008. After all, she is the new power in Paik.

Others learn Latin and apparently Dharmas learn ancient Egyptian :)

some of my personal highlights:
"The ditch had a gun."
"That's traditionally what's kept in a body bag."
"You can change your own diaper"
the whole exchange between Hurley and Candle about Miles - HA!

Rebecca T. said...

And when they were talking about the "Circle of Trust" I was totally having Lion King songs running through my head...

"The Circle of Trust and it moves us a-a-a-all..."
lol :D

lostie 815 said...


Hisham Fahmy said...

We still have doubts about the nature of Widmore-Paik relationship. Are they just golf buddies or in cahoots on more?
But if Paik was one of Widmore's associates or partners, why didn't Ben get Sayid to kill him, too? Either Ben had no idea, or Sayid wouldn't shoot the father of his friend Sun, but that would surely would have happened on screen.
And about killing Widmore's associates, why didn't Sayid try and get to Widmore himself? For all he knew, Widmore was the one who ordered Nadia's killing at the hands of Ismael Bakir.

Rebecca T. said...

No, see, I think Paik is part of a whole other entity - that maybe even Widmore isn't completely aware of. In fact, I would bet he isn't and neither is Ben or else they would have known about Ilana (which Ben doesn't seem to) and Ben would have gone after Paik.

Of course there's always the possibility that it's a whole other group. Maybe it's the Island under the guise of Richard and hence the statue references :)

Hisham Fahmy said...

That would turn to be really interesting if proven correct, SonshineMusic. Perhaps Paik is the third party we all speculated about for a long time.
So you think that the statue is Richard's, too?

Benny said...

Bear with me, it might be chaotic:

If a third party turns out to be Paik, there are so many interesting questions and repercussions. Which would give potential for extensive depth to season 6.

We've been made aware of some Paik/Widmore connection, but to what extent. Paik has certainly gained information through all of these business dealings. And since the freighter left in 2004, Bram & Co. were hired at the latest that year. Ben and Charles are perhaps unaware of Paik's ledgers/agenda. The question is, what happens once Sun takes control of her father's business.

Also on Sun, Benjamin Linus was able to get extensive background files on all of the 815 survivors and would thus know Sun is Paik's daughter, regardless of knowing who Paik is. This would likely clue him to who she is if he knew about Paik, yet throughout seasons 3-5, there doesn't appear to be any suspicions regarding the relationship.

The big question is how Ben and Charles are unaware of this third party (if they are) yet he would know so much about them. It would seem he's a better spy. They'd know about Sayid killing Avelino, they'd know about Ajira 316, one would think they are significantly aware of the extensive background of the Island (as per the mention of the statue) and also Miles' father.

These are just some quick thoughts but we have two weeks to develop the background and connection in a Paik as third party theory.

Benny said...

And in some ridiculously great Star Wars analogy, thank to Hurley:

When he talks about Luke's attitude towards learning Vader was his father and how he just couldn't accept it and got his hand cutoff.

In Lost, Miles is the one with the information (analogous to Vader), and in turn we also know that Chang loses his arm (analogous to Luke).

It's an interesting reversal of a well known father/son relationship. And also Hurley's take on how this led to the catastrophic events in Return of the Jedi, which would be analogous for the 'incident' I presume.

In short: will Miles telling Chang he's his son result in all the big event that started it all?

Austin Gorton said... he just couldn't accept it and got his hand cutoff.Although, as a Star Wars fan, I have to quibble a bit with Hurley's stated interpretation of the end of Empire. Luke didn't refuse to accept the truth about Vader and lost his hand as a result; Vader didn't tell him he was his father until AFTER he lobbed off Luke's hand.

While I agree that Luke had a hard time accepting the truth about his dad, that fact had no bearing on the loss of his hand.

But I'm more than willing to give Hurley a pass, since he's clearly trying to make a point to Miles, and he's clearly seen Empire as much as I have. ;)

To maintain the analogy, perhaps Miles will tell Dr. Chang about their relationship AFTER Chang loses his arm, just as Luke learned the truth about Vader after losing his hand.

Austin Gorton said...

All this talk of Chang's arm sparked a thought (and forgive me if this has been pointed out already): who's the only other person we've seen lose their arm on the show? Montand.

How'd he lose it? Smokey.

Foreshadowing, perhaps, that Chang's arm will befall a similar fate, only with the arm, and not Chang, falling to Smokey?

Hutch said...

Loved the episode and I miss you Nikki. I was just thinking about Miles seeing his father with "baby Miles." Also, please excuse me if this was already discussed in the comments. BUT what if Miles told Dr. Chang about the upcoming purge so he and his mother could be send off the island. Just a thought!

Ali Bags said...

@Teebore who's the only other person we've seen lose their arm on the show? Montand.I'm being pedantic but that Ozzie guy who took Kate in (Ray?) had an artificial arm.

Elle said...

The Bram & CO = Paik is fun to think about. I still lean towards a Dharma connection with Bramco more but I like both theories. I wonder if Dr Chang made it off the island , like his family (ms chang made up her story to miles for some reason) and now, being Mr Dharma film-star himself, wants to get back, with Bramco (Degrout Recruits!) as help? Just a thought. Be gentle. :-)

Nikki Stafford said...

Hey all!
My post just went up. I'm now going to read comments!

Nikki Stafford said...

Grimalkin: I noticed that when Hurley says that he could send the Empire script to Lucas with "improvements", he obviously believes that these "improvements" would be implemented. As he did in the discussion earlier, Hurley still believes that the past can be changed.I was thinking it cancels out the theory some fans seem to have from the comments I've read thus far that Hurley is in fact the author of Star Wars. The episode doesn't have his changes.

UNLESS... Lucas gets his script and takes what he likes and then adds the crap, removing Hurley's changes.

I'm not sure it's Hurley being wrong, by the way... if I'm right and Lucas gets the script and changes things, it could still be his script that sparked the Empire we know and love. Des gave Dan the info in "The Constant."

That said, I don't think Hurley's going to get the information to Lucas. :)

lostie 815 said...

nikki why do think dr.chang spoke porrly about hydra island?

Nikki Stafford said...

asiancolossus: Isn't Ken Leung a wonderful actor? His punk phase reminded me a lot of Claire when she was younger in her goth phase.Agreed on Leung (especially when he's reading the dead people) and that is SO funny you said that, because I made the same joke to my husband!! "Punk Miles and Goth Claire should have gotten together!" :)

elle: but what are the general thoughts on Bram and Ilana being Dharma? Bram in the van, last night, seemed all enlightened and kind of Dharma-esque.I don't know what the others think, but that's definitely a possibility I brought up in my post! (You said it first, though.) :) Like you, I'm glad I'm not alone!

Nikki Stafford said...

Joshua: For someone who likes to lie so much, Kate super sucks at it.
No kidding!!! I thought the same thing, "No WONDER Cassidy didn't want you on her long cons anymore!"

Hutch: Also, please excuse me if this was already discussed in the comments. BUT what if Miles told Dr. Chang about the upcoming purge so he and his mother could be send off the island. Just a thought!Excellent observation, and my husband made that one, too! He said I bet they weren't kicked out of Chang's house, but off the island because he thought he was doing what's best. So I think you're onto something there. :)

Austin Gorton said...

So does the grandma scene happen after Naomi has met with him?I definitely think it would explain the reaction he had at hearing that news. And I bet the Bram/van scene takes place after that one.

There was a moment when Dan first stepped off the sub where I thought he was going to look at Miles and say, “And you are...?” Anyone else thinking that?Me too, me too! I thought for a moment it might be a time traveling Dan from, I dunno, 1998 or something.

Anonymous said...

Ok I read your blog religiously now and I love it! Just wanted to say that! Also that I just realized the 100th episode of Lost is airing on my birthday! YES! Ok that's all I have time for because finals are coming up! Just wanted to pop in and say hey! Have fun in England! Totally jealous that you're there!

Rebecca T. said...

@Nikki: Maybe the guy really HAS grown up a lot in the last 3 years. Too bad...

Seriously. I have always been a huge Sawyer fan, but like him less as "Jim". Sometimes he really gets on my nerves.

Zari said...

For NIK: We joined the LOSTies just last season (4) and are catching up with re-runs on the SciFi channel with the help of your excellent books, 1/2, 3 & 4, and this terrific blog every Thurs. this season. Please, can you tell us where to find the LOST "Canon" that explains what is really "real"? Thanks!

Deb said...

I like the RS, Teebore, et al thread that Chang made Miles and his mom leave because he found out about the purge rather than that he was mean. What a different side of him we got to see in the closing scene when he was reading to baby Miles. He obviously loved that kid. I think he sent them off for their own protection. I guess we shall have to wait and see though.

Rebecca T. said...

Didn't Charlotte have a similar backstory? In that her mother was nastily sent away from the Island? Or am I remembering wrong?

Anyway, I completely agree that Chang sends his wife and son away to protect them, but he has to make sure they don't try to come back, so unfortunately, he has to break his wife's heart.

Thus adding yet another chronicle to the ever-growing "Daddy issues" list :)

Genevieve said...

Nikki, I think it would behoove your fans if you didn't go on vacation until after the season is over! =P Your fans are doing a great job analyzing the episode, but we missed you!!! Glad to read your post!

Rachel said...

Hi, been reading for awhile but this is my first comment here.

I see many are guessing that Chang kicks mom and Miles out to protect them from the Purge. This may still be, but the problem (to me) is, the Purge doesn't happen for about 15 years or so after 1977. Why would Chang kick his wife and kid out with the Purge so far off? Could it be that the Losties tell Chang about the Purge but fail to mention that it will be awhile? Or maybe Chang just decides they might as well leave now, before it's too late?

Or, maybe Chang throws them out because of the Incident that's coming up soon, whatever that ends up being. I think timing-wise, this is more likely than him throwing them out due to the Purge.

Also, I agree with most that Ilana and Bram are with a third-party. Many have suggested they are the Dharma kids, I think that could be. What if they are being led by Eloise Hawking? Clearly she was on the island previously, and seemed to have some kind of authority (e.g. the comment to Richard in "Dead is Dead" - "what if Charles and Ellie find out"). But Widmore was banished all by himself... how/why did Eloise leave? She doesn't seem to be on good terms with Widmore anymore, but her relationship with Ben also seems strained. And she seems to know quite a bit - I think it's very possible Eloise is connected to the "third-party", at least in some form.

Ali Bags said...

Many have suggested they are the Dharma kids, I think that could be.Great idea! Maybe, it's not just Miles and Charlotte who are sent away -it's all the kids. Will that mean Ben's Annie will be one of them?

Ali Bags said...

I think it's very possible Eloise is connected to the "third-party", at least in some formand maybe Daniel Farraday has something to do with the 'Shadow of the Statue' brigade?

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Blam said...

I'm sorry for the deleted posts. My comments keep getting mangled in publication, but they preview fine (and this after my whole blog got erased last week). Let me chop things up even more...

Blam said...

Bram, huh? I'm glad I have all of you, because nobody here recognized that guy in the van as having been on the beach with Ilana last week, let alone knew his name.

My favorite line was Hurley's: "The Ewoks sucked, dude." Good luck on getting them written out of history, Hugo, but some things you just have to... Endor.

Blam said...

Nikki: And you're worrying me that you don't need me at all!Poppycock! Balderdash, even! Snuffleupagus! Paradiddle, I say! Sigmoidoscopy!

I had the same question about the lack of body in Miles' previous flashback, Nik, given what we saw this time out. He says he can hear the deceased's final thoughts -- in the case of Dharma guy, what was literally going though his head when he died 8^) -- so it would seem he doesn't commune with spirits as much as perform necro-telepathy of some kind (reading the brain's final impulses, if you want to cast it in a scientific light).

Why did Miles' ability manifest when it did, by the way? I'm not sure that we were supposed to conclude that the apartment scene was the first time it happened -- the fact that young Miles couldn't make the talking stop could've just been immaturity before he learned to tune out the voices better, and his mom might've just been embarrassed at this happening again -- but it seems to be the consensus interpretation.

Blam said...

Nikki: [W]e’d also suggested that maybe Ben couldn’t go to 1977 because he couldn’t exist with his younger self. That’s now off the table, so there must be a more interesting reason why he can’t go back.Don't mistake "didn't" for "can't".

Blam said...

Okay... Now the only thing missing is some carriage returns.

Blam said...

I was surprised that nobody wrote about Naomi's comment that they were going to an island to find a man and that Miles' talent would be useful because (paraphrased) "there are dead people all over that island." The question immediately came up for me as to whether she just meant all the bodies buried there over time or the Walking Dead phenomenon on the Island. Could Miles be able to read the thoughts of the animated, ambulatory has-been-and-is-again folks like Locke against their will?

This week's obligatory question that doesn't pertain to this week's episode: How did Ethan end up Ethan Rom, aside from the writers' anagrammatic clue of "Other Man"? He's not Ethan Goodspeed on the manifest, and even if he were disguising his name lest anyone on the plane have known of Horace Goodspeed and Dharma you wouldn't think that Rom is a quick go-to alias. Yet it's not apparent that one changes one's name when taken in by the Natives, either, because Ben is still Benjamin Linus. Was Horace not Ethan's father? Did Amy or Ethan himself forsake that name when joining or re-joining the Others/Hostiles/Natives? And can we consider young Ben and Ethan from last week's episode "Youth Hostiles"?

Blam said...
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Blam said...

Ali Bags: Nice icon!

Elle: I'm glad my mention of Ilana=Dharma isnt receiving Lost Fan Flung Poo
Fan Flung Poo /
Everybody knows one /
Fan Flung Poo /
Every garden grows one /

No Neil Diamond fans? Anyone? Bueller? (So not worth reposting.)

Blam said...

Ilana and Bram and whomever else is "counter" Wildmore don't have to be working for Ben -- which I see now has been exhaustively discussed. They could be working for Eloise Hawking, a guerilla Dharma revival, or another faction that truly doesn't want the Island despoiled, and they could've tried to convince Miles not to go on the freighter knowing or fearing that it would lead to Ben and the Oceanic Six leaving the Island the way they did. For all her talk of "course correction", Ms. Hawking does seem insistent in making sure the right things happen and the wrong things don't.

Blam said...

AsianColossus: So what does lie in the shadow of the statue?I was about to say, facetiously, "Dead flowers that don't get enough sun" (to replace my old answer, Ben, the lying liar who lies everywhere). And that made me think, What if it's where Richard and the other original Others are buried -- in sarcophagi, in the ground, whatever? I'm not saying they're dead, but since we still don't know whether they're spirits, ancient gods, aliens, or what, it's worth considering.

Blam said...

Benny: The incident will happen soon and will likely be a break in the electromagnetism barrier. The Swan's purpose will become containing that force.

Anti-EM! Anti-EM!

Wizard of Oz fans who pronounce "anti" to rhyme with "can't he"? Anyone? Rad the Inhaler?

Teebore: I'm more than willing to give Hurley a pass, since he's clearly trying to make a point to Miles, and he's clearly seen Empire as much as I have. ;)

What I don't get is that Empire is the one film in either trilogy that nobody would think of improving on -- except maybe for Luke's whimpering when he's holding onto that scaffolding with one hand and both arms as Vader says "I am your father." Sure, Hurley was trying to erase the Ewoks from Jedi, but still.

Blam said...

Teebore: And I bet the Bram/van scene takes place after that one.

Bram Van! na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na... Bram Van! Do you think he knows BatCabbage and BatKitty? Yeah, I'm a little punchy tonight.

Rachel: Why would Chang kick his wife and kid out with the Purge so far off?

More likely it was the Incident, as you say, and not the Purge that worried him most immediately. That or the Hostiles getting stirred up when they find out the Swan's being built, or, y'know, just the discovery (on his own or from the time-travelers) that there's a hydrogen bomb buried on the Island.

Rachel: Also, I agree with most that Ilana and Bram are with a third-party. Many have suggested they are the Dharma kids ...

I hope not. Did we learn nothing from The Muppet Babies and The Flintstone Kids? Although I guess this is more like when Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm grew up and formed a rock band (no pun intended, which is hard to believe given the rest of this post).

Seriously, though, I think this is an intriguing avenue, because it would color Bram's abduction-chat with Miles in a new light of connectivity. Miles and Charlotte being "specialists" on the freighter team because they were Dharma kids would sure lend credence to the theory that Daniel was too. I also like the idea that we don't know when Daniel's from, but Eloise Hawking is apparently his mother and the age gap between them was consistent in the 2004-2007 "present".

Now let's have a moment of silence for Alvarez, the Dharma worker who got a filling through the brain while working on the Swan. As a wise man once said, The tooth shall set you free.

Blam said...

I apologize again to everyone, our hostess especially, for the deleted posts and choppy ones that followed (but not, mostly, for the dubious humor contained therein).

Ali Bags said...


Lol to every one of your posts! You are ON FIRE today/tonight/this morning-whenever it is.

batcabbage said...

@Blam: LMAO!!!!! I'm not sure I've met Bram, or his van, but the idea of a third faction vying for the island intrigues me nonetheless. And Batkitty also sends her LOLs at your awesome comment. :)

batcabbage said...

@Blam: Also, I agree about your assemsment that Empire is the one SW movie you can't improve upon. I mean, Hurley totally misses out the Luke/taun-taun/wampa scene. He has the probe droid hitting the ground, and then Chewie taking it out! WTF, man?! Luke, on a taun-taun (ever since I was 5 I've wanted one of those just to go to the shop), getting smacked around by a wampa. You missed it, Hurley! Come on, man! That's not an improvement! Or.... Hurley got the script to Lucas, and Lucas said 'Y'know, what we need here is...' and he filled the rest in, made his own improvements... Yeah, OK, I'm drunk now. That's fine! I'm going back to my old-school PS1 Metal Gear Solid game and that's it. (I'm sorry, I've been drinking and playing PS1. It's a bad habit)

ZooBot23 said...

So, who else thinks that "The Incident" occurs when Miles tries to change his own diaper??

Blam said...

The kind words are appreciated, Ali and Bat. Now that I've clicked through to your profile, Ms. Bags, I see that Hong Kong Phooey isn't just a fun random association. Mr. Cabbage, I would be happy to draw some chiropteran wings on your titular cruciferousness if you would like an icon, although that's probably a project made for Photoshop.

Austin Gorton said...

What I don't get is that Empire is the one film in either trilogy that nobody would think of improving onYeah, I had the same thought too. My guess is Hurley really wants to change Jedi (Ewoks) but that's 6 years away yet, so he's settling for trying to effect some change on it in advance via Empire.

Something that hadn't occurred to me before: we know the Losties are in 1977, but we don't know what month. Not that it's all that important, but Hurley's assertion that the first Star Wars is out so he's working on the sequel would suggest they're at least sometime later than May. :)

Brian Douglas said...

"Good luck on getting them written out of history, Hugo, but some things you just have to... Endor."


Elle said...

@Nikki, Thanks for the kudos! You rock.

Oooo, Island Kids - intesting topic, granted, *for me* (which aint sayin much). Miles, Charlotte, probably Daniel, Bram? and other BramVan occupants (Ilana?): Native Islanders? Maybe being Native Born Islanders = an extra set of powers/smarts? I wonder if thats why Aaron is of great significance too. A ghostly Claire begs Kate to NEVER bring Aaron back. Hmmm. Granted, he wasnt conceived on the Island but he was born there. Ji Leon was conceived there too. Maybe Native Islanders are a force to be reckoned with?

@Bram- great and super funny comments! Lost Fan Flung Poo song: pure genius.

@Zoobot23 (and probably others too): The idea of Miles changing his own diaper causing the Incident would be awesome! As I have changed many-a-diaper, I can vouch some diapers are worthy of an all out Time Altering Incident. :-)

Also @Bram, I like the Statue Shadow graveyard idea. Why is the Shadow so important? Is it important only to potentially Native Islanders? Its an assumption granted, as we dont know if Bram is one but he did ask the question to Island Born Miles. The resting place of several bodies on the island is a mystery (Christian? Amy's Hubby? Alvarez? Maybe Jacob? Richard??). Cool theory!

Elle said...

Dangit - Meant @Blam! Sorry!! Had Bram on the brain. [insert Lost Fan Flung Poo]

dan said...

i keep thinking that it's the bomb that's burried in the shadow of the statue. the electro magnetic field from the hatch seems too complex for a simple explanation like "they burried the bomb there" - but that's just my gut reaction.

Elle said...

This may be a "duh" comment but is the Orchid Station (or donkey wheel) in the shadow of the statue? As time was flashing around like crazy, Locke and crew stood at the well (above the donkey wheel)- we saw the statue for a few moments before time flashed again. Of course, I wonder if there are other things in the shadow too?

Paticus said...

dan- i had not thought about the bomb being in the shadow of the statue, but i was thinking it's not under the hatch either. I was wondering if it's not going to be used in the "war". Kinda like the old adage that "if you see a gun in the first act, someone will be shot by the end of the play"(paraphrasing, and badly)I think that we are destined to see that bomb explode, and it would seem logical that it would be in the war.

Rebecca T. said...

Lost: The Next Generation will air in the spring of 2015 and will chronicle the ongoing saga of Aaron, Ji Yeon, Charlie, Juliet's sister's baby and any others that I cannot think of right now. lol :D

@Blam: LOL hahahaha I needed that laugh SO badly.
Other responses....
"there are dead people all over that island." The question immediately came up for me as to whether she just meant all the bodies buried there over time or the Walking Dead phenomenon on the Island. Could Miles be able to read the thoughts of the animated, ambulatory has-been-and-is-again folks like Locke against their will?"

You know, I noticed the comment at the time, but didn't jot it down and so forgot to comment on it. I immediately thought of Christian and Locke when she was talking about dead people, but there are a lot of other dead people too. Interesting theory.

" or, y'know, just the discovery (on his own or from the time-travelers) that there's a hydrogen bomb buried on the Island."

Oh, that little detail... psssh.

"I also like the idea that we don't know when Daniel's from, but Eloise Hawking is apparently his mother and the age gap between them was consistent in the 2004-2007 "present"."

Maybe Eloise isn't from the "present" either. That would be typical Lost.

dan said...

OK, just a thought; maybe there are two sides, an invader and a defender. So Illiana's group is the "invader" of the island, and everyone else are all fighting to be the one protector of the island. So Witmore, the others, dharma and everyone else all want to protect the island, but they are at war with each other over how to do so and the winner will be the one who defends the island during the war. A war of ways, so to speak.

Nikki Stafford said...

Oh Blam... what would I do without you?? Anti-EM is my new favourite pun. :)

And OH MAN I totally hadn't noticed he'd cut out Luke on the taun-taun. You're totally right, you can't remove that. I saw that movie when I was a kid, and the scene of Luke slicing it open and the guts pouring out over him haunted me for YEARS. It's essential, dude.

Blam said...

Three quick thoughts on "What lies in the shadow of the statue?"

(1) It still may be a code phrase, as was "What did one snowman say to the other snowman?" Probably still is, even.

(2) What lies in the shadow of the statue when? Doesn't what literally lies in the shadow of the statue depend on where the sun is? (Or... Where Sun is? Calling Doc Jensen!) Even on this hidden island, the shadows presumably shift during the day, or Locke would have noticed it early on in his walkabout-guru phase. So even if we're trying to figure out an actual answer we might have to think somewhat metaphorically, or at the very least consider the entire radius that its shadow would cover. And we know that about half of that radius, if we're in fact talking about the statue whose crumbled foot we saw on the shoreline, would be in the water.

(3) Didn't the show misquote the 23rd Psalm at least once as "Yea, though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death..." instead of the proper "valley of the shadow of death"? Maybe a valley of death is what lies in the shadow of the statue. Or maybe they just meant "What lies in the statue of the shadow?" 8^)

Ted said...

Second post, long time reader and my first post was wrong.

There is no third faction!!!

Bram, etc., work for Widmore. First to argue this???

We all thought that until the van scene. Couldn't that just be Widmore testing an unrelialble 1.6 mil asset to be what he thought he would be... hired asset. He passed, 3.2 is too much to pay and validates his position among a ship of mercs. Didn't Widmore say "wrong side" too? Then, this serious part of a funny episode becomes a backstory for Widmore, character developmet for Dram et al, and more important, Miles.

Widmore worked broken leg Locke. Maybe he is working to see if merc Miles is in his fave.

There is just too much story to Miles to not assume he is a good guy, tears at end of story then Dan!!!

He was turned, to the "good" side by the of the Force by Hurley

Anonymous said...

Jimmy Kimmel on Susan BoyleJust, everyone watch this. I'm not saying why.

batcabbage said...

Wow, redeem. I wish you'd said why. I thought it had something to do with Lost.

Deb said...

Um, it does have something to do with LOST. You need to watch it to see the case member appearance. Very funny.

Nikki Stafford said...

redeem: LOL!!! That was very funny.

Bat: Go back and watch again... it's quick, but it's a funny moment. :)

Helena said...

Really liked all the father parallels in this one-back to the old running theme of fathers destroying relationships: Miles, Hurley, Roger, Mr. Gray...

Did anyone else think about the reference to Star Wars and Luke getting his hand cut off by his father and Miles' dad and the videos where he clearly has a fake arm? Just a thought...

Hunter said...

@Benny I don't know if you ever came back to this, but I was right about the sub, just wrong about when it was said. In "Whatever Happened, Happened," Juliet tells Kate that they can't take Ben off the island to get help because the sub won't be back for a few months.

Pretty silly error only a few episodes apart.

Benny said...
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Benny said...
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Benny said...

@Hunter: yeah I hadn't gotten through to that. Juliet does say so.

Whether it's an inconsistency or misdirection, I don't know. But since we don't want the execs to fail us, I present to you an explanation:

The Swan is being built in secrecy of BOTH DHARMA and the Hostiles. The proof being in that they are not supposed to be in grid 334 and Miles, second in command to LaFleur didn't even know. Only the circle of trust is aware of it. Spreading this knowledge to most of the DI would jeopardize the project.As such, the scientists being brought in are possibly arriving without the knowledge of a mechanic such as Juliet. Therefore she would not be aware of the subs actual schedule.That's the more interesting idea. Another simple one is that not all of the subs trips are made aware to her because... that's just the case. The choice to send scientists to the island is not hers and could simply have been made without her knowledge.

I would really hate for seemingly inconsistencies to be unexplainable. That's one of the reasons Lost succeeds, even if something like this is not confirmed, you can come up with your own explanation of why it works.

**Sorry for the reposts, some formatting issues**

Benny said...

OK, so apparently I'm having the same issue as Blam as my posts keep getting reformatted even after the preview displays them accurately.

That's just annoying isn't it!

Hunter said...

I could go for that. My other thought was that maybe this trip was unexpected. Chang gets a phone call and jumps up in the middle of the night as if he wasn't expecting them to arrive. I guess we'll see if they say anything about it in 2 weeks. Man, that's too long from now!

Anonymous said...

From what I can tell Kate just sucks at lying when she's on the Island. Off-Island she didn't do too badly (hell, she fooled that cop hubby of hers for how long? Several months?). Cassidy's an experienced liar so it's no surprise she saw through Kate in WHH.

Does anyone else think Roger was thinking about shifting attention off himself and Ben when he talked to Jack about reporting Kate? After all those were his keys they found in the jailhouse door, and he knew that Sawyer knew those were his.

Benny said...

Yeah definitely. If it's not explained, I'll just chalk it up to any of those explanations.

And two weeks is indeed too long. But I might be able to do my own recap of the season to date during that time.

batcabbage said...

@redeem: Oh wow, how the hell did i miss that? I'm a tool. Sorry, my friend. :)

Anonymous said...

That's okay, batcabbage. It goes by quickly.

Hisham Fahmy said...

Just a thought I had now:
Explaining his ability to Hurley, Miles said, "What I can do has nothing to do with chatting with ghosts, you dimwit. It's a feeling, a sense. When somebody's dead, their brains stop functioning, which means there's no more talking. It's just who they were and whatever they knew before they died."
Which means that Miles can't possibly know anything beyond the point of death. But Widmore hired him in order to talk to the dead people on the island (the DI, most likely) and find Ben.
I mean, this is not how Widmore's people found Ben anyway, but does it make sense that Miles ability couldn't have been of help anyway?

Rebecca T. said...

@redeem147: That was fun. Thanks for sharing. My hearty laugh for the day.

Re: Miles and his abilities...
I wonder if he has another ability other than sensing things from the dead, something more, though I hesitate to use the word because of the connotations, psychic. There's a scene either in the deleted scenes or mobisodes from the season 4 DVDs that shows him looking around as though he's listening to something and then he walks through the sonic fence because he "knew" it was off, even though those with him think it's on. He brushes it off by saying it's a hunch. There are no dead people there in the open, so there really is no reason for him to know it according to his abilities.

Are those kinds of things considered "canon"? Either way I think it's an interesting angle on his "specialness".

Grimalkin said...

To jumpstart this conversation, I'm going to post two random thoughts of mine.
First, I've heard theories from several sources that the "Shadow of the Statue" faction might either be the beginning of a reconstituted Dharma Initiative or an as-yet unknown faction led by Eloise Hawking. Why can't these two be combined, and Eloise Hawking be leading a new Dharma Initiative? We don't know where her loyalties lie, and she's got an old Dharma station in her backyard (metaphorically speaking). Not sure if I really subscibe to this theory, but it's certainly a possibility.
The other thought, which is much more elaborate, is that it seems like EVERY character on this show has parent issues. Seriously. Except the minor ones, and there's the possibility that we just don't KNOW about their parent issues yet.

scotminusT said...

Of course what would be truly twisted is if this new faction were all somehow the children of the the Oceanic surivors (ie, Ilyana is Sayid's daughter, Bram is the son of Kate and Jack - from their Ajira eve tryst, etc.). But that would be too twisted...

Rebecca T. said...

Last night I had a dream about, of all people, Ethan, which inspired several theories on the Godspeed/Rom conundrum

1. When he got married, Ethan took on his wife's last name instead of vice versa.

2. He took on a pseudonym when he started defecting to the Others in order to separate his two lives (if he left willingly with Ben or otherwise).

3. Amy is an Other and when she left, taking Ethan with her, they reverted to her maiden name.

4. Ethan was kidnapped and given to an Other with the last name of Rom and he doesn't know that he was Dharma. I bet Alex thought her last name was Linus, not Rousseau.

Random thoughts unrelated to Miles, but oft discussed here :)

Blam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Blam said...

Are you disappointed that "Some Like It Hoth" did indeed turn out to be a reference to The Empire Strikes Back?

Or are you just in the mood for something weird?

I put together a little free-association on my blog that connects Lost to Norse mythology after all.

Much to my surprise, there's already a comment by Sonshine Music, from about 20 minutes ago, when I was still working out the kinks. (Thanks, SM!)

The permalink that will give you both a preamble and the free association is:
Or you can go right to the absurdity that is "Norse Code" here:
lt's no floor plan of Dharmaville, but we each have our talents. 8^)

Jazzygirl said...

For what it's worth, I just saw Jorge Garcia on The Bonnie Hunt Show. (I am on vacation this break...and am subjecting myself to daytime talk shows. LOL) Anyway, imagine the pleasant surprise when she announced he was on today. Of course he can't give anything away but he did say that we will find out why he got on Ajira 316 and more will be revealed about Jacob.
Happy Earth Day tomorrow everyone!

Unknown said...

Dude! Has anyone forgotten that Horace built Jacob's house? When does that happen? And does that have anything to do with the "Circle of Trust?" Dun dun dun!

The Chapati Kid said...

What has happened before will happen again. Or, the past is immutable. There's the idea that changing the past will affect the future, and the idea that it won't. And basically, it seems that what these guys are living through now has already happened before. It's just that we're seeing it for the first time just as they are. In their present lives, this is the first time it's happened. How else would it explain why Ben, as Henry Gale, picked Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley as his hostages (for Michael to bring to him)? Although he didn't ask for Jin. Maybe Jin did not affect his past the way these other guys did.

So does this mean that of all the people there, Ben is actually the only one who knows what's going on? He's lived through it once, and that's why he asks for these four - because he remembers them. By going into the past, he's reliving it, and he is the only one who remembers. So is he playing dumb when he sees the photo in that room with Sun and Frank?

I can't remember if Richard Alpert met Sawyer in previous seasons. I don't think so.

And what does Locke have to do with all this? Somehow, he seems to be the thread that will tie it all together. Else, Ben would not be so concerned about him. Maybe Ben's trying to change a predestined pattern that only he knows about (since he remembers it all) by killing Locke. And destiny can't be changed.

Are we just caught in a huge revolving circle of time?

The Chapati Kid said...

That was just me thinking aloud. Not sure if I actually said anything relevant to your post, Nikki (althought I did read it!)

Hisham Fahmy said...

I just read that ABC announced its fall schedule which includes 12 shows. Once of which is Lost. Does this mean that our favorite drama is coming earlier than next January?

Benny said...

The actual article was actually in reference to ABC's early renewal of 12 shows for the 2009-10 season.

There are shows still up for negotiations and others dropped while projects in development might get airtime as well.

It doesn't mention any specific time frames for the scheduled airings. Unless specified otherwise, I would stick with the contract the writers/execs signed with ABC which stated three (3) January seasons of 16 episodes, S4 and S5 already worked out and S6 for next year.

Blam said...

I was checking out the other blogs of some our "regulars" here on this clip-show week, and came across a post from Sonshine Music last month that provoked thoughts on Richard.

The Lost Trinity:

If Jacob and/or the Island is the Father, Locke is the Son, and Christian Shephard is the Holy Ghost, can we expand the equivalencies from the "New Testament" and related lore?

Sonshine Music first posits Ben as Satan but then recasts him as the Antichrist, which sounds right to me. After suggesting maybe the Archangel Gabriel, she's not sure what to make of Richard.

I think Richard fits surprisingly well as the apocryphal Wandering Jew. Perhaps he's so long-lived because he didn't believe in the Island or its chosen leader ages ago and now is cursed to wait for the Messiah's return, living among others but doomed to be mostly an observer. This would explain both his general patience and calm as well as his stirrings of initiative on finding the Island's true chosen one, because he wants to be granted his rest.

Anonymous said...

will Lost still show if Barak is making his face time during primetime

Nikki Stafford said...

Anonymous: Good question. According to my PVR, Obama's address will be from 8:30 to 9, so Lost should remain intact. He could go over, but it'll probably just delay the start time by a few minutes. Here's hoping it delays it and doesn't actually just make them cut into the already running programming. UGH.

Benny said...

With regards to the address, there's a good news for Canadian viewers.

Sometimes (not always), the Canadian carrier are allowed to start airing the scheduled show if a public address goes over and, instead of having an Canadian feed on both channels (in this case A-TV), the American network will provide its own airing (ABC, with US commercials) once the address is over.

If this happens this week, it means Canadians will have a few minutes head start on the US viewers!

Then again, this is not always the case. I remember when some Canadian broadcasters aired shows days in advanced of the US networks (sometimes just the previous hour). Ratings went down because viewers in the US with access to Canadian channels watched the Canadian broadcast instead.

We'll see this week! It will probably be worth the slight delay if it happens.