Tuesday, August 09, 2011

Buffy Rewatch Week 32: Spoiler Forum

And as always, here is the spoiler forum where we can talk about the series (Buffy and Angel) without worrying about spoilers. Only three episodes between us and The Body... when Joyce leaned back on the bed this week I felt a lump welling up in my throat, picturing her lying on the couch, not moving. I'm wondering how the new viewers are going to react...


Dusk said...

I love how Glory just walks into Buffy's house a sits down for a nice chat. And only by sheer luck do Buffy and Dawn survive. The only way I would have topped is have Glory steal Joyce's earrings or something. It means even more if you believe the angle that Joyce's age and altered amount of memories are what caused the brain issues to begin with.

The only other villians to do this house thing was Angelus, but his arc is diminished for people like me who know their is a spin-off. The First sort of does this, but he can't directly harm anyone so it's not as scary. And the suicide of a background Potential lacks for me. And I never was much into Andrew, althought The First as Johnathan was creepy. "So many dead girls...so many."

A slight peeve of mine, and I guess Triangle week is the best place to put it. Does it ever bug anyone else their are so few magically inclined males? I know a big theme is female empowerment, but the ratio here seems way off for a world with so much magic in the plot. Slayers are established as girls from the start, but their is no such reason why guys cannot use magic.

Giles breifly uses magic until it turns on him, his big power up for Dark Willow was from women only, as if no guys could sense her too?

Johnathan seems to have big power in Superstar, but then he's watered down mostly for comedy, and says he only "dabbled". And I get the impression he stopped in S7 otherwise I would have just levitated the dirt away.

I can only think of Rack and that evil guy from the Faith arc in S8. Also at a certain point early in the comics all the magical beings are female, it just seems out of balance to me, and this came out way longer then I though, lol.

Dusk said...

Also I'm sliding even more to the "Hate Anya Died" camp after Into the Woods.

I starting to think it was mostly because their were no other viable options and it would seem too perfect for all the big characters to live. Also ignoring the absurdity of Andrew/Anya as a battle pair. I still feel if Xander didn't get to say goodbye then Giles should have been the one to tell him she died.

Colleen/redeem147 said...

Riley's being bitten is an addiction. The bite on the crook of the arm is similar to shooting heroin, and he's in a crack house. Magic will later be seen as addiction with Willow.

Riley's off to the rain forest to meet Sam. I wish they'd stayed there.

Riley says if Spike touched Buffy he'd kill him for real - but he doesn't.

Amy the rat looks like she's planning something - I guess she was. Willow says she's more intelligent now - is that why she's so resentful when she gets de-ratted?

Willow's being very bossy with Anya in the car, considering she'll pull the same sort of thing (with added magic) and crash the car in season six.

So, if Buffy's sniffy about Xander and Anya because she's upset about Riley, is she sniffy in Hell's Bells because she's upset about Spike?

Dusk said...

@Colleen: Xander does kind of get short-changed for a guy pal after Riley leaves. I would be happy if he met Jeremy from the Angel/Spike comics though. Other then the fact Jeremy likes the vampires with souls, they'd go well together I think.

Colleen/redeem147 said...

Good point, Dusk. Who's he going to play with - Giles?

Jeremy's a great character. Though since IDW lost the license, I guess that's the last we'll see of him. :(

Dusk said...

@Colleen: I heard he's in the "Spike" series which is supposed to bridge IDW and Dark Horse. I don't have "Spike" on me yet, but I do have a lot of Angel titles.

Suzanne said...

I couldn't help yelling at the TV when Xander gave Buffy his big speech about love saying, "hey, why don't you remember this speech in the future when you leave poor Anya at the alter, especially the part about dealing with messy love." I hate that he has this great insight yet doesn't allow it to prevent him from making such a big mistake in his own life ( I haven't read the comics, so I realize I might be wrong about the "mistake," but to me the comics are a different thing -- easy to say when you haven't read them :) )

Colleen/redeem147 said...

The Spike series has come and gone. It was IDW. The only connection is Spike's space ship (yes, you heard me.)

Dusk said...

What about the fish demon?

Colleen/redeem147 said...

Betta George!!! I love you!!!

Don't think so. He would be property of Brian Lynch and IDW. I suppose they could get permission if they wanted to, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Dusk said...

I don't know much on the legal aspect, but isn't Betta in ATF? So doesn'yt Joss have the rights for him? Also since "Spike" series is a bridge, wouldn't that open up Beck and Jeremy? Or am I totally wrong here? I'm just guessing.

The only members of Angel's team not from the show or the "Spike" series would be Laura and Darrow, since Dez and Mr.P are dead right?

Nikki Stafford said...

Suzanne: I was thinking the same thing about Xander leaving Anya at the altar! Sadness...

Efthymia said...

The line about rat-Amy "rubbing her paws together like she's planning something" had me seriously thinking (a)how far ahead do these writers plan?!, and (b)that Willow was right and Amy HAD gotten more intelligent and WAS planning something.
Now that I know what happens in the future with Amy, this little comment (that's supposed to be funny) really gave me the creeps...

Quarks said...

This is a great week of 'Buffy' for me, with some of my favourite episodes this season. We are now at the middle of Season 5 and this week largely serves to finish off the storylines from the first half of the season (Riley and Buffy's relationship, Joyce's illness etc.) and bring to the front the season's Big Bad, Glory.

'Into the Woods':

I love this episode, if only for how awesome Xander is in it. I always find Xander best in episodes which focus on characters other than him, like here, 'Grave' and 'Potential'. In 'Potential' Xander explains to Dawn that he is the guy who sees everything, which is shown to be true in this case, as he seems to be the only person aware of what is happening to Buffy and Riley. And Xander is actually able to get through to Buffy, which is pretty rare; normally once Buffy is like she is in this episode, nobody can talk her out of it. Furthermore, there is that great scene at the end between Xander and Anya, which really starts to show their relationship as being more serious and less comical.

As for Riley, I never really have particularly strong feelings about him. I feel sympathy for him in this episode, because you do get the feeling that it's more the idea of him Buffy likes: a normal, dependable boyfriend who has never killed innocent humans and isn't likely to turn evil at any given point. But I don't know if Buffy would ever be capable of maintaining a relationship like that, because it's missing the passion and the danger her other relationships have.


I really like 'Triangle'. It's a nice, fairly light-hearted, comical episode that bridges the gap between the two halves of the season. It also addresses the relationship between Willow and Anya, which is perhaps necessary after what Xander said to Anya in the last episode. We realised then that their relationship was a serious one, and that Anya wasn't going to be going anywhere any time soon. So it was important to 'fix' her relationship with the one of Xander's friends who she never got along with: Willow. And while they may not be best friends, by the end of the episode their friendship has certainly moved along, and their issues with each other have been brought out into the open and dealt with. It's also interesting to note that Willow's main problem with Anya isn't that she had killed thousands of people, or that she tried to get her killed in 'Doppelgangland', but that she might end up hurting Xander.


Another great episode to finish this week. We meet the Watchers Council once again, and they show us why when they blow up in Season 7, nobody is particularly upset. Quentin Travers tells Buffy how the Council remains and the Slayers change, which is quite ironic when in the finale and for the Season 8 comics, there are now very few Watchers, yet hundreds of Slayers.

Continuing with the trend of this season and the next, Buffy is really growing up now and is becoming an adult. She stands up to the Council, instead of letting them walk all over her, and exerts her power as the Slayer.

Also this episode, Buffy moves Dawn and her mum in with Spike, for protection. Yet, by next episode they are back living with Buffy. Was Glory's threat only temporary?

Overall, one of best weeks of episodes so far in Season 5. Next, we have three more good episodes before we get to what is probably the best episode of 'Buffy' ever.

On a sidenote, I have just finished reading the last few issues of the Season 8 comics for the first time. And I think I'm going to have to read them again, as I haven't a clue what just happened. I did love the 'Lost' reference, however.

Linda345 said...

@Quarks. "It's more the idea of him that Buffy likes." Good point. We knew from the episode title "Doomed" that Riley wouldn't be around forever, but the relationship tells us much about who Buffy is. Wasn't it soon before Riley entered the picture she was lamenting to her friends that she could never find a normal lover? Well, then she had one, and look what happened? It's like Anya was saying to Willow about women who would come to her for a vengeance spell, and after they've come to her enough times, she says, "Maybe it's you." It's Buffy.

@Dusk. "sliding into the Hate Anya Died camp." I read that at the time, there was a slight possibility there would be a season 8, and coupled with the idea that someone has to die, for the drama of it, Emma Caulfield volunteered, not wanting to do another season.

It would make sense that Andrew would tell Xander, as he was right there, near Anya's body, when Xander came looking for her. I was stunned when Andrew, of all people, ended up being one of the small group standing with Buffy at the end. But it worked, and I liked it. I liked Andrew's transformation from storyteller to genuine person. I was very moved watching him pull himself out of his old habits and say, "She died saving my life." Tears.

Dusk said...

@Linda, weird, I thought they pretty much knew going into S7 it would be the last considering they supposedly had two year contracts with the new network and Sarah wanted to move on. I heard their was a possiblity of an a Faith & Spike spin-off but Eliza went to Tru Calling so that ended that.

That, plus Joss couldn't kill any of the Core Four. Andrew's death would have been too predictable. Wood and the Potentals aren't characters you invest so much in since they've been around barely a season.

And despite the fan dislike, Dawn is one of the closest people to Buffy, probably her purest kind of love, and if she died that would have a big effect on her and the other three.

So that just left Anya.

I don't hate Andrew by the end, but he is an annoyance to me. The battle plan of Andrew backing Anya is really dumb if I look at it "realistically". He should have been with Wood. Dawn would trust Xander the most, so if he has to be with her, Giles and Anya bond over the <agic Box years, and while he's not a father figure for her, they do have the "family" bond. Same with Xander, while I don't think Giles thought of him as a son, they are close and it should have been him to tell Xander.

Colleen/redeem147 said...

I loved Xander's speech in Potential, but here not so much. It's what leads Buffy to run after Riley.

I also wonder, given upcoming events and the way he always treats her, whether Xander did really love Anya, or whether Riley leaving caused him to try to hold on to what he had.

Now Xander in Triangle? Him I love.

Suzanne said...

Colleen/redeem147: Maybe Xander's speech was based in real feelings, but notice his emphasis was on how he loved her for the way she made him feel like a man for the first time. Maybe he didn't really love her for who she was but for how she made him feel. Once she stops making him feel that way, maybe that is when things change for him. It is an interesting parallel to Buffy and Riley in a way because as many people have mentioned, it seemed as if Buffy didn't really love for Riley for himself but more for who he represents to her.

Quarks said...

In terms of Xander and Anya, I think he did really love her, which was why he ended up breaking up with her. He was worried that they would end up like his parents and that he would end up hurting her (physically and emotionally), and because he loved her so much he left before that could happen.

In many ways, I would argue that Xander and Anya's relationship is the opposite of Buffy and Riley's. Buffy loves the idea her and Riley's relationship, but isn't actually in love with Riley. Xander, on the other hand, is in love with Anya, but is scared of the idea of their relationship because he has seen how relationships like that can end.

Linda345 said...

@Dusk. I'm not able to get the link to post, but I saw it in a Wikipedia article about The Chosen, in the section on Writing: "Whedon knew he wanted to kill somebody..." and that it would be a noble death. "Emma Caulfield stated at the beginning of season 7 that it would be her last season on Buffy, even if the show was renewed for another season." So she was fine with being the one. She actually was the best choice, I think,as everyone loved her and her death would elicit emotion (Andrew, not so much). And if it were any of the others there would be outrage.

@Quarks. Xander and Anya were each other's CONSTANTS!! (I'm missing Lost). Buffy and Riley were not. And Buffy and Angel were not constants either. Buffy hasn't met hers yet.

Xander's speech to Anya was eloquent and genuine. He truly loved her--enough to walk away from her, believing he could not provide for her all that she needed, physically and emotionally. I really think they were better for each other after the split, as friends.

Quarks said...

@Linda345: I think I read somewhere that the initial plan for 'Chosen' was that Xander would die, killed by a Bringer, with Dawn playing Andrew's role. But when Emma Caulfield said that she didn't want to be in any possible future 'Buffy' projects, they changed it and swapped Xander and Dawn's places with Anya and Andrew's. Plus I imagine that there would have been a much bigger reaction if Xander had died.

Personally, while I love Anya and do wish that she hadn't died (largely so that she could star in the Season 8 comics), I think that the way she died suited Anya much better than anybody else. Of all the 'Buffy' characters, Anya is the one whom I can least imagine having a long, mournful death. A sudden, blunt one seems much more Anya's style.

kluu said...

One of the most magically adept persons on the show was Ethan Rayne.

I agree though that it is heavily weighed towards the feminine side.

funny forum said...

I read this story its interesting to read then What about the fish demon? nice story.