Wednesday, January 28, 2009

Lost 5.03: Jughead

Richard: “I said... Put the gun down, Widmore.”
Me: “WHAAAAAAAT???!!!”


And here I thought this week’s episode was going to be featuring Archie, Betty, and Veronica.

So get a load of my viewing experience. Locke leans in and tells Richard he’ll be born in two years... and a LOWE’S commercial cuts into the ABC feed, followed by a Stouffer’s ad, then three seconds of Wheel of Fortune, and then it suddenly cuts back to Charlotte and Daniel at the end. Like, what the FRAK?! I was SO angry. A huge thank-you to Benny, who emailed me and filled me in on everything I’d missed. From now on I’ll record two feeds at once.

Theresa Falls Up the Stairs...
Remember Boone’s story about his nanny? That he was a snot of a kid whose nanny would come every time he rang a bell, so he rang it constantly, forcing her to run up and down the stairs, until she tripped, fell and broke her neck? Then we had Ana Lucia’s mother, whose name was Teresa Cortez. And now... Daniel Faraday apparently destroyed the life of a woman named Theresa by giving her the Eloise experiment and not telling her to grab a constant along the way. But why is she comatose and not bleeding from the nose? Somehow she’s jumping through time, but not to the extent others are. Which brings us to...

Who the HELL is Daniel??!!
I mentioned last week that Daniel seemed a lot more lucid and confident and less jittery. Someone chalked it up to just being on the island longer, but I think it’s a lot more than that. His memory is so much better. Could his mind be de-aging as he jumps around in time? Is it possible that if he goes back to a time before the experiments, the effects of the radiation from those experiments and his time jumping are lessened? He was FAR more in control this week than we’ve ever seen him. But who is he?? Is it possible Desmond gave him the coordinates for his experiment in 1996, and Daniel took it even further, beyond consciousness time travel to actual physical time travel, and has been bouncing all over? Desmond did tell him in 1996 that he would end up on an island in the future. Could Dan have decided that must be a key and began searching for this island, going back in time and finding a much earlier version of it? Ellie recognizes him as “that guy with the bomb.” Presumably Dr. Chang knew who he was in the previous episode, which was why Daniel hid his face from him as he went by. Could Daniel be behind the original Dharma Initiative? Alpert thinks he and Charlotte and Miles are a group of scientists who have invaded this peaceful island and are trying to destroy it through their work, which is kind of how the Others perceived the DI when we saw Ben’s flashback in “The Man Behind the Curtain.” The land mines are attributed to him, he seemed to know something about the bomb and played along a little too easily... I watched the last few minutes of “The Lie” in enhanced mode (ugh) and they said Mrs. Hawking’s first name was Eloise, so apparently Daniel named his rat after his mother. Um... nice? So maybe if Desmond goes back in time and once again says, “I know about Eloise...” it’ll still work?

Locke’s Specialness
WOW. I loved the Locke stuff. Now I understand what Alpert meant when he said next time he met Locke he wouldn’t know who he was. Duh... I can’t believe I didn’t figure that one out. Of course it meant Locke would go back to a time before he was born. Now we know why Alpert visited Locke at such an early age, and why he was SO frustrated when Locke didn’t pass his Dalai Lama test. Now we know how Richard knew to go to the hospital when Locke was born. He was Richard’s leader, before he was born. FREAKY!!

Ye Olde Otherton
Before there were little camp bunkers in New Otherton, they had little tents. Richard was always there. They spoke Latin. And Juliet apparently knows a lot about the Others that she still hasn’t spilled. What is she waiting for? Why hasn’t someone debriefed that woman on EVERYTHING she knows? Why Latin? Is this a clue as to just how old the Others really are? Could Alpert go back centuries? Millennia?

WIDMORE!!!!!
Okay, “Jones” actually being Charles Widmore was the biggest squee moment of the episode for me. I love that he’s just sort of thrown on the clothes of some other guy he’s found, and it has a name patch that’s wrong. Widmore was a nasty sonofabitch from the beginning, breaking a colleague’s neck just for the hell of it. The way he says to Alpert that there’s no way Locke could possibly know the island better than he does suggests Widmore already had a very territorial hold over the island, and already saw it as his more than anyone else’s. In the present day, when Desmond walked into Widmore’s office I gasped loudly, yelled out loud, “NO!!! Don’t go there, what are you DOING??!!” A chill went down my spine as Widmore looked up and saw him. So, first, he knows that this guy was willing to blow up EVERYONE to find the island, probably figured out he was capable of crashing a plane and killing most of the people on board, was responsible for digging up 324 bodies and faking a plane crash site at the bottom of the ocean... and he walks into his office looking for Daniel’s mom? I think I would have found another way... I loved that he refused to answer Widmore’s question about Penny, but I don’t know why Widmore wasn’t even more direct about her safety, and simply said, “Ben Linus has vowed to kill her if he finds her. Don’t let him find her.” Widmore doesn’t know that Ben is WITH Faraday’s mom right now, and he’s just walked Penny right into the trap. Something doesn’t feel right about this. I think Widmore is more omniscient than that. Hmm...

Chah-lee
Desmond’s a daddy! Apparently he and Penny got busy the moment they reunited, and she had a kid 9 months later (which should come as a surprise to NO ONE) so he’s a little over 2 right now. We find out at the end of the episode that Desmond has named him Charlie, as an homage to the man whose fate was in Desmond’s hands, who spoke to Penny and led her to the island, and who tried to save the rest of the survivors from contacting “Not Penny’s Boat.” What are the chances the kid time travels and actually IS Charlie Pace? Okay, I’m being facetious, but on Lost, you never know.

Highlights:
• Pretty much every moment I mentioned above.
• Juliet explaining Other 101.
• The look on Sawyer’s face when he sees the bomb.
• The look on Richard’s face when Locke says Jacob sent him.

Biggest “GASP!” Moments:
• Ellie recognizing Daniel at the beginning.
• Land mines and hydrogen bombs?! Suddenly the smoke monster seems like a cute puppy.
• Widmore has been funding Daniel’s research? It makes sense when you think about it... but it was still a shock.
• JONES = WIDMORE?!
• Charlotte bleeding from every orifice.

Hurley’s Numbers:
Department of Physics is Claredon 142-08.

Did You Notice?:
• It seemed a little strange that the doctor jumped right to the forceps at the beginning. They’re usually a last-ditch effort, since many babies have been seriously hurt by using them. And... how long exactly did Desmond let Penny labour before actually getting a doctor? Except on TV, babies don’t usually arrive seconds after a woman goes into labour.
• Ellie’s English accent is more fake than Widmore’s.
• Desmond in tinted sunglasses = HOT. Okay, also a little Barry Gibb, but I’m willing to overlook that.
• Richard Alpert tells Dan that they didn’t start this, they simply retaliated when they fired on them first. (“Listen, Dan... WE didn’t start the fire. It was ALWAYS burning since the world’s been turning.”) This would back up Ben’s contention that the Others are the good guys.
• Daniel admits his love for Charlotte, but I think that was a stupid thing to do. These people are potentially hostile, and so Daniel lets them know the only thing that means anything to him is sitting right there.
• The present time is 1954, exactly 50 years before the plane crash. I wonder if it’s 50 years to the day?
• Locke says he was born in Tustin, California. When we see his flashback, he’s working at the box company in Tustin. Looks like he always stayed in one spot.

So Many Questions...
• See above for many of them.
• What happened to Faraday’s lab? Was it destroyed out of anger by Faraday or another scientist, or did Oxford dismantle everything? Why is everything still there? Did someone get wind that his experiments actually had some merit and they don’t want to destroy it?
• When Locke acts at the beginning like he’s the only one who’s been time travelling, why doesn’t Sawyer set him straight?
• The secretary asks Daniel what year it was when he visited and he doesn’t know. But at the time he kept insisting it was 1996. How did he forget?
• The caretaker at Oxford says Des isn’t the first one poking around looking for Daniel. Who are the others? Widmore? Ben? Locke?
• Why doesn't Desmond mention the whole constant thing to Theresa's sister?
• What is that bomb? Daniel says they need to bury it... do they eventually bury it beneath the Swan station and that’s what causes that immense electromagnetic energy? Personally, I would think that would cause an immense amount of radiation, not electromagnetic energy... But I’m wondering if the bomb is still on the island somewhere, buried. A couple of seasons ago someone said that anything that is buried on the island has a way of resurfacing (which is something fans keep quoting with horror when talking about Nikki and Paulo... :::shudder:::), and I wonder if that bomb will be found again. Could it be hidden beneath The Tempest station and it’s what could be blowing up?
• Juliet tells Locke that Richard has “always” been here. From the very beginning of the island?
• Daniel tells Ellie that she looks so much like someone he used to know. Who? Theresa? His mom? Think about it: Ellie... Eloise?


UPDATE: I had added this last night to this post before publishing it, but I don't know if it didn't save or what... anyway, here is the trailer for next week's episode.



UPDATE #2: My DocArzt column just went live here. I was a little less serious than last week. ;)

UPDATE #3: Someone asked in the comments section what actually happened in the section I missed, since ABC cut away on them, too. (Also, someone suggested I record the A-Channel... last week I was recording both of them concurrently, and will go back to doing that in the future; the reason I had it on ABC is because I was watching it in HD, and the A-Channel doesn't offer an HD alternative.) Here's what happened (since I watched it this morning on the midnight feed I recorded last night):

Locke says he's going to be born in 1956, in Tustin, and tells Richard to come and see if he doesn't believe him. He stands up, and the sky begins to turn white, and he says, "Oh no, it's about to happen again!" Richard says, "What's about to happen?" Locke says he's going to be taken away, and tell him how to get off the island. Richard steps forward, and Locke says, "How do I get off the island?!" and suddenly everything flashes white, and the tents are gone and Locke is just standing in a clearing. Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, Sawyer, and Juliet are all standing there with him, and they all smile and look relieved that the baddies are gone. Daniel begins to untie Charlotte's rope, and then you probably saw the rest. ;)

128 comments:

Anonymous said...

So Ellie = Daniel's mother?

?

J. Maggio said...

So Ellie = Daniel's mother?

?

Anonymous said...

I believe Daniel thought Ellie looked familiar because she's his mother as a young woman. Ellie = Eloise = Eloise Hawking.

Benny said...

With regards to Desmond not remembering it's 1996, my suggestions is this:
It was mostly his 1996 mind traveling (falling unconscious in 1996 and living a continuous segment in 2004). So possibly his 2004 mind doesn't recall much of the events during that specific period, 1996 was taking over. So when he found his constant, it all balanced out and he kinda lost track of a few things.
Just thinking out loud here!

"...since the world's been turning!"
Richard is way OLD. That would probably explain the comment: "You do remember birthdays do you?" He just doesn't seem to care for them anymore!

"forceps" Let's not forget, he grabs him out of a poker tent in southeast Asia... that might explain the rush to the forceps!

"Jones" Remember when miles said four American had been killed recently. Any bets on one of them being named Jones? They having been killed by Widmore & co, then stealing their equipment!

More evidence for Ellie=Eloise. Widmore/Ellie friendship, Ellie has a son who goes into physics/time travel theories and gets funding from his mother's friend Mr. Charles Widmore!

Finally, there's a theory floating out there suggesting that Charles would have turned the wheel prior and that the island would have moved, making Ben the new leader of the group. Charles may see this as Ben having usurped him and being quite vengeful. Or that he had been driven out earlier (70s, 80s) because a new leader had been found. Or some variant to that effect. It certainly adds clarity tot he whole "Everything you have you took from me!" statement.

DanM said...

Obviously the inference Darlton wants us to make is that Ellie is Daniel's mum.

Isn't Charlotte supposed to have been born on the island?

When are we going to find out more on Jacob?

Benny said...

Want to learn more about the Jughead device? Here's a start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Castle

Read on!

Amsted said...

gaaah...

As soon as Faraday told Ellie that she looked familiar, I knew it was going to be his own mom, Eloise. That was my big theory anyway, and as I read your post, I thought maybe you missed this and I was going to be the one to make you go, "hmmmm...."

That is until your very last point. I reiterate: gaaaah....

Benny said...

Another quick remark. One of many I must admit.

Has anyone else realized that with this season so far, and to some degree last year, the show has really taken the focus off of the passengers of flight 815.

We introduce new characters, that's normal. But the new characters (Widmore, Ben, Mrs Hawking, Richard and especially Daniel) have a bigger role in the entire storyline and life of the island than any of the survivors, with the possible exceptions of Locke and to some extent Walt (where is this kid?)

It seems to me that the passengers are just an instrument and catalyst for the events taking place in the show, but mostly they are a vessel for storytelling. Think about it, all of the storytelling comes from their perspective, but as the show progresses, their role in this entire life/game/war really is minuscule.

Although given Ben's plan and Mrs Hawking's warning "God help us all", I'm not giving up hope yet!

Matthew Dykstra said...

I'm not smitten with the idea that we have to get confirmed details via an enhanced "The Lie" like Mrs. Hawkings first name being Eloise. Half the time the enhanced episodes explain minute things like plots of previous episodes or episode referances we all already know. I'm not comfortable with important info like Hawking's first name being introduced like that. Is anyone else with me on that? Isn't it strange?

fb said...

to clarify, cos i got a little, uh, lost ... ellie was the blonde chick with the gun trained on daniel when they went to the bomb?

was it just me, or did almost all the people on the 1954 iteration of the island (with the exception of richard because he never ages) look like they were NOT from the 1954 era? i don't think it was intentional, i just think the hair and makeup department dropped the ball on this one. ellie (?) in particular looked like any buff blonde tanned girl you'd see at the gym in 2009. there was nothing about her, from her hair to her make up to her attitude to her physique, that seemed appropriate for a 1950s era. or maybe it was just me (the young charles widmore seemed fine.)

interesting that the name "charlie" comes not just from charlie pace, but it is also a diminutive of charles, penny's father's name, too.

Benny said...

@fb:
ditto on charlie!

and yes, Ellie is that girl!

As for the period look, I'd say that since these people are Hostiles/Others/Natives, they don't have to look like they're from the 1950's. Ellie might look like any 2009 gym enthusiast but the truth being she could be originating from anytime, anywhere (most likely commonwealth).

Blam said...

I'm afraid nothing was wrong with your feed, Nikki. ABC was just skipping through the space-time continuum. (Okay, not.)

So no great laugh lines this week -- I guess 'cause Hurley was missing. The most intriguing line, of course, was "I said put the gun down... Widmore."

I can't believe that I didn't get the Ellie=Eloise thing. Or maybe I can, since I didn't catch the Pop-Up Video repeat. What's funny is that she looked familiar to me. So I went on IMDB, where in addition to finding out that I probably saw her on Without a Trace I got an inadvertent Lost spoiler of small degree in the cast list.

Nikki wrote...

<< Why hasn’t someone debriefed that woman on EVERYTHING she knows? >>

I wondered this, too, as I do every time Juliet pulls important and hitherto unrevealed Other info out of her, uh, arsenal.

<< A couple of seasons ago someone said that anything that is buried on the island has a way of resurfacing ... >>

Uh-oh. We have an H-bomb leaking radiation and two castaways bitten by spiders. You know what that means. 8^)

<< I loved that [Des] refused to answer Widmore’s question about Penny ... >>

Even better, in terms of sticking it to the schmuck, Des didn't tell Widmore that he now has a grandson. I had (and dismissed) the same thought about the boy being the one and only Charlie, by the way -- kinda hard not to; after all, this is Lost.

<< Is it possible Desmond gave him the coordinates for his experiment in 1996, and he took it even further, beyond consciousness time travel to actual physical time travel, and has been bouncing all over? >>

I don't think that physical time travel necessarily follows from concsiousness time travel. We're not aware of Lost's rules here, but if not mutually exclusive they still would seem like very different disciplines. The Daniel on the island under the Orchid station in Ep 5.01 could easily be the Daniel we see on the island now, a couple of episodes down the line, when his group has been transported to that era after a flash and he decides to go poking around. Your point about him hiding his face from Dr. Chang is taken, but there are lots of possible reasons for him doing so, including, as Lost has taught us, ones we can't even anticipate right now.

<< “Listen, Dan... WE didn’t start the fire. It was ALWAYS burning since the world’s been turning.” >>

You had to bring up my least favorite William Joel Abuse of Grammar.

My own questions:

I take it Des and Penny's kid was tiny and goopy enough at birth for you, Nikki? 8^)

Why did 1954 Richard seem so nonplussed by the compass when future-him gave it to Locke for just this occasion? I guess 2005 Richard knew that eventually it would lead to something, so it will, but this was awfully anticlimactic.

Did anyone else think it poor continuity when Charlotte went from having an appropriately dark and not too profuse nosebleed before fainting to having this wide, oddly bright red streak down to her chin when we see her moments later on the ground?

Further comments:

I was interested, and almost surprised, to hear Juliet confirm that Richard is old. Until the emphasis on time travel in this season's first two episodes, I'd never subscribed to the theory that Richard was time-traveling when he tested young Locke or befriended young-ish Ben (his long hair and disheveled dress when meeting Ben lent credence to the fact that he wasn't); rather, I was of the belief that he was in some fashion immortal, probably due to living on the island. Now just when I'm tempted to change my position, we get evidence that I shouldn't, not only from Juliet's comment but from his exchange with Locke when Locke shows up at the Others' camp in 1954.

Something that's bugged me pretty often recurred when Juliet said that Latin was part of "Others 101" -- besides her spontaneous revelation of information, that is. We first heard the Others referred to as such by Rousseau, and I'd assumed that it was simply what she and her crew called these mysterious island-dwellers to whom she attributed the whispers. While it makes sense that the name took hold among the Oceanic castaways, and thus among the fans, it feels like Juliet and other Others have been referring to themselves by the name incongruously freely for a title applied to them by outsiders -- unless I'm misremembering or misconstruing the origin of the name, which is entirely possible.

I thought it quite presumptuous of Locke to declare himself the Others' leader to 1954 Richard. Not only did the situation arguably call for more finesse, but saying something like "You recruited me, Richard, or at least you will," would have been both more politic and more logical, followed by "and the last time I saw you, you said to give you this."

Daniel still looks distractingly like Charles Manson, whom Jeremy Davies played in the made-for-television movie Helter Skelter five years ago. And though it was sweet to witness him profess his love for Charlotte, I have to admit that, for me, while the intended plot point of his feelings has come across in previous episodes, the actual emotion of any connection between them hasn't. I first blamed this mostly on Rebecca Mader, who I thought was an absolute mannequin back on Justice, but I have to admit that (perhaps due to her not having to affect an American accent) she's much more human on Lost; also, I get the sense from tonight's episode that Daniel's feelings may not be returned in kind by Charlotte. So either I should spread the blame equally to Jeremy Davies, or he/they fell in love before we met them, or both. I hate disparaging actors and artists in any way that seems personal, so let me close these comments by complimenting Mader on her piercing blue eyes and her successful casting on an American network television show despite apparently actually maintaining a healthy human weight.

Archie and Jughead got a shout-out in tonight's Life on Mars, too.

Benny said...

@blam

All good points and some worth discussing further but I'll just comment on Juliet's self Other reference.

I think that from what we know so far Rousseau was the first to use the term, and it was later adopted by the survivors. I think it was used during the Henry Gale episodes and further on and the Others have since made it a point of using it when referring to themselves while talking to individuals who know them by such a descriptive. We've seen Ben and Juliet use it a few times and often in a sarcastic tone, i.e. "Others 101".

Blam said...

FB -- I agree that gun-toting Ellie seemed incongruous for 1954, but maybe that's why she was selected.

Benny -- I've noticed it, and I don't entirely like it. Sure, it's inevitable to bring in other characters, and I'm actually quite in favor of cast turnover on shows (moreso than is usually allowed) for the sake of both freshness and believability, but it feels like some of these newer characters are so important we should've met them earlier on to justify their displacement of the more tenured leads.

Matthew -- I heartily second your rebuke of information given out by secondary sources and expected to be understood as canon, even when it's via a so-called enhanced repeat of the actual show.

redeem147 said...

I'm amazed you could go into so much detail, Nikki, since I figured you would turn into a pile of goo seeing Desmond with the baby.

If Ellie is Mrs. Hawking is Daniel's mom, and she was on the Island with Widdmore, is it possible he is Daniel's father? And Penny's brother?

What's really travelling in time? The Island? Or the cast(aways)? And where are Bernard and Rose?

AliBags said...

If Ellie is Eloise, Daniel's Mum, could Widmore be Daniel's father?

AliBags said...

Sorry redeem47 I didn't read your post before posting the same idea! Obviously great minds think alike (at the same time)

Gary said...

Hey friends!

I think it was a great episode, but I think they should have included the important clue of Mrs. Hawking's first name in one of the original episodes instead of in an enhanced repeat. I wonder if Darlton wanted it that way?

Regarding Juliet's use of the term "Other", I think she was just being sarcastic. I think the "others" just view this label as being a bit derogatory and tired.

I have to say that we really need to look deeper into Faraday. He claims to love charlotte but what if he has been doing to Charlotte what he did with Teresa? I'm not sure he is a good guy after this!

Roland said...

Hey Nikki, loved the episode, but missed my Oceanic 6 fix!

I totally didn't get the Elle-Eloise connection, wow...I initially thought Elle-Danielle but that wouldn't make sense because Danielle wasn't an other. Sooner or later you'd think you'd run into Danielle and her science team, who probably all died from the time travelling head exploding thing :)

I loved the scene with Alpert and Locke and the compass and Locke telling him to come visit him if he didn't believe him. And hence, he goes to visit him as a boy. Alpert was frustrated because Locke chose the knife! He should have chosen the compass! This is too cool! Shows that the writers are thinking WAY ahead.

I still cannot get my head around the H-bomb and the significance of it. It is the name of the episode so its gotta be important somehow!!!

So who is Teresa? My guess is that she was the predecessor to Charlotte, he fell in love with her and took her time traveling but she went into a coma for it, and he took off because he couldn't face her for what he'd done. I can't see Daniel being SO cruel as to abandon her. Chicken and coward yes, cruel no.

I agree, biggest gasp moment was the young Charles Widmore. Perhaps he was in line for Ben's job and he got passed up and now he's pissed.

Dumb Desmond. For someone who claims that he'll never leave Penny, the love of his life, he sure didn't show it! He could have gotten killed by Widmore. But I suppose Widmore DOES love his daughter and wouldn't want her to be out there like a fugutive alone.

Widmore must not know about Daniel's mom being with Ben (assuming its Mrs. Hawking of course). Or maybe he does and is sending Desmond to his doom. But why would he risk Penny going there and running right into his sworn enemy? That really doesn't make sense.

I'm REALLY looking forward to next week. I think that it is Claire's mom who knows that Aaron is not Kate's. She must know Claire was pregnant at the time and at the conference it was raised by the reporter that the timing ain't right. How are they going to break Hurley out of jail???

Mike said...

Love the posts and the speculation.

Guess what, all - we KNOW where the H-bomb ends up. Nikki, you were right in your guess about it ending up next to the Swan station. In episode 2.4, Jack and Sayid try to explore certain areas of the hatch, but are blocked by several feet of reinforced concrete. Sayid's comment? "The last time I saw concrete poured over everything like this was Chernobyl." That HAS to be where the bomb is now!

humanebean said...

Oh, Nikki! I can all too easily imagine what your viewing experience must have been like. There have been one or two sporting events I've been heavily invested in that were similarly interrupted in climactic moments. Oh, the horror!

Another exciting episode that, while having a few flat moments, grows in the mind with recall. And so it goes .... a few things that jumped out at me:
1) Aaron is 3 months old when the O6 depart. Yung Li is born about 6 months later. And now, li'l Charlie comes along about 3 months after THAT. Quite the Junior Justice League we have here. This has to have significance for the future, not to mention creating complications for those who have to go BACK.

2) "You just couldn't stay away, could you?" Ellie's recognition of Faraday has curious resonance. I just don't understand how the reveal of Mrs. Hawking's first name could come via 'enhanced episode'. There's something missing here. I'm on board with those who've noted that Ellie and Widmore together on the island hints at Faraday's parentage. It also neatly sets up another estranged pair who are each urgently seeking to (or have already) manipulated people and events to arrange a trip to the island.

3) Locke can't shoot a retreating "Jones" not just because he's one of his "people" - the island won't let him. Widmore, for good or ill ... still has work to do.

4) Daniel's lab has the look of one that's been shuttered and preserved ... because it will be needed later. Papers are still there, equipment covered and kept. NOT cleaned out, broken up and sold off. Widmore again? I can't escape the feeling that Theresa's involvement in Our Man Dan's experiments may have been accidental ... and he's been searching for an answer ever since. Fled to the States? Why?

5) I understand the folks who've expressed their frustration with newer characters seeming to take precedence over earlier ones. But, this mirrors the Island Experience - there are those who seem to have been there since the beginning ... and those who've arrived and become an integral part of the 'story'. There are always new "Others". And, how many of them are returning from some other time?

6) Speaking of time (and aren't we always these days?), Richard seems possibly unversed in time travel when Locke meets him in 1954. Perhaps something other than Locke's appearance sends Richard madly scrambling to assess his future worth as the island's savior and Others' leader. Which reminds me...

7) Richard is the only character we've seen thus far who can demonstrably travel through time in a directive way, body and consciousness. Or, has he been popping up off-island on separate trips, each in it's parallel time on the island? If Faraday proves to also be able to do this, rather than just be subject to the 'random' flashes or as part of consciousness-shifting experiments ... what does this tell us about Our Man Dan?

8) It's easy for us to assume (given the preponderance of evidence) that Widmore is a bad, bad man. But ... is/was he always? We thought the same of Ben but have come to see him in a less judgmental way over time. Will we learn that Widmore, too, is motivated by more than greed and power? Has he been pulling strings and shuffling pawns about in service of (what he believes is) the Greater Good? Lately, he's been handing out information like candy. He gave Desmond Penny's new address in 'The Constant' and now gives him Mrs. Hawking's address. He clearly doesn't know of her connection to Ben at present.

9) The fear in Penny's eyes when she hugs Desmond after telling him that she and Charlie will go with him to L.A. is palpable. Does she have foreknowledge of what may prove to be their parting if/when he must return to the island without her?

10) I admit that Daniel and Charlotte's 'relationship' has awkward overtones. But, isn't this often the way? We all know couples that seem to fall together out of need, or desire ... or because they think they love each other. Sometimes they do, sometimes the love grows unexpectedly - and sometimes the relationship winds up being 'together for now'. Daniel may well know Charlotte's fate and want/need to express whatever feelings his has for her before it's too late.

Three episodes in, this season has the seeds for their best ever. Time to watch "Jughead" again!

humanebean said...

Sorry! Brain cramp - coffee hadn't kicked in yet. I incorrectly referred to Ji Yeon as 'Yung Li'. My bad!

Nikki Stafford said...

Hey all: Whew, so many comments, you guys are awesome. It's been one of those mornings and now I'm about to head into meetings. But I'm sure there will be much to discuss when I'm out.

After I went to bed last night (seriously, Lost is the ONLY show on TV that keeps me awake, despite being desperately tired... but my mind is racing with the possibilities) I, too, put together that Widmore and Ellie could have gotten together and conceived Daniel. And now Ellie is holding a gun to him and talking to him with disgust, and Widmore hates him just as much. Could you IMAGINE?! I LOVE it.

Matthew: I could NOT agree more. I remember back with the Lost Experience when they revealed at the end what Hurley's numbers actually were, and then Damon said the revelations should be considered canon. Uh... NO? I think they should not. I think if it's not on the screen, in the dialogue, on my show (and I do NOT count enhanced stupid captions in that), then it's not canon.

The ONLY reason I saw that her name was Eloise was because my PVR kicked in a few minutes early, and when I went back (after already watching Jughead) to restart it to watch it a second time, that particular fact was on the screen. It elicited an immediate, "Aaahhh" from me, and it all came together. Did I like it? No. The enhanced video should not be a requirement. Not to mention, I've seen a lot of inaccurate stuff put in there.

So I totally agree with you Matthew. Down with enhanced captions! Up with not telling us her name is Eloise until a few more episodes in!

fb: And of course I totally forgot about Charles for Charlie. Duh. Good one! SO... Desmond and Penny have a baby whom they name Charlie, he goes back in time to the 1950s, ends up on the island as Charles, has an affair and produces Daniel, then gets off the island and has Penny, who grows up, marries Desmond, who helps Daniel time travel, and has a child who... goes back in time and becomes her father.

My brain just went kerschplatt. I think I just came up with my idea for a totally crazytown post on DocArzt today. :)

Sparty_Cyclone said...

I agree that Daniel named his rat after colleague (perhaps mentor?) Eloise Hawking, but I don't think she was his mother. That's too convenient and easy for these writers. All we know is that Daniel's mother is currently living in Los Angeles. For all we know, it could be the butcher who is watching over Bentham. I just think they want us to believe it is Mrs. Hawking to throw us off.

Teebore said...

it feels like Juliet and other Others have been referring to themselves by the name incongruously freely for a title applied to them by outsiders

I'm not entirely sure, but I think the term has only been used to refer to Others by Others who have interacted with the Losties. In this case, Juliet uses it, and she's certainly spent enough time amongst the 815ers at this point (and she's more or less defected to their side) to adopt the term in reference to her old people.

Nikki, my wife and I had the same reaction you did when Desmond strode into Widmore's office. "What are you doing, you moron? Get OUT of there, now!"

I also love that the Others are basically murderous hermit crabs. In the 50s the army comes ashore and picks a fight, so the Others kill them and appropriate their camp, clothing and equipment. 20 years later, along comes Dharma and the Others wipe them out and move into their barracks.

It makes me wonder how far back we'd have to go to find the Others living in their original "shell."

And talk about Richard whiplash. Just last week we're all nodding our heads, saying "ah, yes, time travel, that explains Richards mysterious agelessness." And now Juliet manages to re-raise the idea that perhaps, there is something more to Richard's state than time travel.

(And maybe it was just me, or the way the scene was written, but the implication seems to be that Richard's longevity is specific to him, and not something granted by the island to all Others.)

And count me amongst those who think that Jughead is buried beneath the Swan. I don't necessarily think its the source of the EM energy, but I definitely think the bomb is there. Sayid's comment in season two is just too much of a coincidence.

And do I feel like the biggest dunce for not even theorizing that Ellie is Daniel's mom, or what? I was thinking Charlotte's mom (though, in my defense, I didn't watch the enhanced The Lie, either).

fb said...

Blam wrote: Daniel still looks distractingly like Charles Manson

YES!!!!! thank you!!!! i have been trying -- since jeremy davies first appeared on the show last year -- to figure out whom he reminded me of and this is it!!! okay, that just injected a whole new level of creepy into his character. i'll have to check out helter skelter sometime.

and i am on the bandwagon of those who think there is zero chemistry between dan and charlotte. to me, charlotte's character is a complete waste. she doesn't do anything, she doesn't really say anything, she just stands around looking sour and sulky (not to mention, daniel looks about half her size and height, which really has nothing to do with anything other than making them look more mismatched). why she continues to be alive and the brilliance that is rousseau was killed off, i cannot fathom. but with all the time-jumping, i'm hopeful we haven't seen the last of rousseau. darlton promised us a backstory and flashback!

Jazzygirl said...

OMG, what do you mean in the Lost experience they told what the numbers really are? Okay I am totally blanking (if this was brought up before). What are they? I feel like a Lost newbie by asking when I am totally not. But now I'm curious. And I also did not watch the enhanced episode last night so I missed the name thing too!!
I dreamt all about Lost last night. Kept waking up and thinking I was in a new "time". LOL Wow, I need help!

KeepingAwake said...

If Widmore is sending Desmond to Los Angeles to meet Hawking, even though it seems to put Penny in great jeopardy, perhaps Widmore has some idea of the likely outcome of the situation because he, like Hawking, realizes that certain landmarks in history cannot be changed?

KeepingAwake said...

@JazzyGirl:

I think it was part of the Valenzetti equation, which predicts the precise date and time that mankind extinguishes itself

Benny said...

@Roland:

Locke DID pick the compass (along with the vial of granules). What went wrong is when he picked the knife instead of the Book of Laws.

Plus, I'm not certain Widmore is really in it to kill Desmond. We don't know that he is aware Desmond was on the island. As far as he knows he was staying away and now he's just resurfaced.

@humanebean
It's not suggested specifically that Richard is time traveling. In fact, more evidence point to him living on the island and not aging as opposed to time traveling.



As for Jughead underneath the Swan, I'm not quite sold on that yet.There's a possibility that the magnetism is to hold the bomb together so it doesn't esplode. But now what happened to it when thw Swan blew up? No more magnetism or anything... Wait and see!

Saza said...

No one has mentioned the bomb....doesn't it stand to reason that perhaps the bomb is what is buried in the original Desmond hatch? Sayid said there was several feet of concrete burying whatever it is. (I believe he made a nuclear reactor reference) And concrete is the exact prescription Daniel gave for a good way to bury it.

Benny said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Benny said...

With regards to Ellie 'recognizing' Daniel, I take it as more of a surprised reaction that THEY couldn't stay away (i.e. American army, from their bomb)


@Saza: there have been a few mention of the Swan and the bomb.


@Blam

In regards to character turnover. I'm not sure I completely dislike it. I give the idea of the movie Seven. At the beginning we're only given the idea of murders, then it moves slowly into the whole seven deadly sins. We're only introduced to the killer much later in the movie and the story doesn't end with the reveal. The viewer's POV are the detectives.

I think the same applies here and the viewer identifies with the survivors. We're introduced to the island and its mysteries. Gradually more is revealed with the stations, the Others and so on. We're in the 5th season which would probably be equivalent to a big reveal (expect big things this year) followed by season 6, the culmination.

If they can pull it off nicely, I'll be happy with all this. The writers are slowly unraveling the tapestry of the island!

Jason said...

Nikki:

Dan's office is shut down for two reason - first is that an experiment on a _human being_ went wrong. I would think Oxford wouldn't want any thing to do with this and with Widmore's money, he could proabably cover it up (as he did with the Losties' flight). Oxford would probably go with what ever he said if he promised he could cover it up - as Oxford does have a reputation to uphold.

Roland:

What makes you think Dan is a coward? He left Oxford to go to the States - probably to talk to his mother (Ellie) who probably initiated his interest in time travel (and he probably initiated her interest at the Jughead bomb - funny how that works). I would guess that he didn't run away as much as he wanted to fix things, which is why he was on the boat to go to the island to figure out this time travel thing. I actually think that Daniel is one of the heroic characters of the show.

I would also love you guys to consider the following:

WHY were the others targeting people in Season 2 to abduct from the beach? Why the kids? We know that some of the abductions were for experimental purposes. However, I believe that the Others knew who would be on the flight - not because they have endless resources and superintelligence, but because someone has fed them all the information. I would say that the "Biff" factor is going on here. Just like Biff gave himself a bit of advice in the past in Back to the Future II, so has someone given information to The Others in Lost. I also believe that this is not a matter of our Time Jumpers (Locke, Dan, Juliet etc) giving that information to Richard and various Others. I think that some of this group will firmly end up far enough in the past for a fix amount of time somewhere between "5 minutes and 5000 years." These time jumpers will become the Others. Those Others will have children. They will chronicle everything - like Dan or Locke will want to do if they end up stationary for a long period of time - and they will know things from the future because they will have already lived it or will have it chronicled. An example of this will be Juliet's sister being cured of cancer or her coworker hit by a bus (who was that guy again). Ben knew these things - not because he has powers or the ability to cure Juliet's sister, but because he's been given the information. He's always been confident that people would do certain thing - and that's because he knew they would based on what's been documented and been passed down to him.

That said, I think the whole conflict of the show is not around the plane crashing and getting off the island only to need to get back to it. I think the conflict of the show is "this time" in the time loop, people started doing things that didn't fit with what they'd done in the "past" timeline or what they were supposed to do. I believe that is the key between fate and free will. It's not devine (in Lost). It's a matter of time can not be broken or changed. However, every thing was thrown off when someone(a few people) did something that was different than done in the timeline as it "should have" happened. This is why everything is all out of whack. This is why Ben's power to manipulate people is also no longer predictable - he doesn't know what is going to happen for the first time in his life. AND AND AND here's where I think the time line was first 'broken.' I think that Ben shooting Locke and leaving him for dead instead of embracing him as leader (much like what Widmore did in the past when Ben came on as leader), the time line was forever thrown off. Nothing worked the way it was supposed to after that. Think about it. These are the first time that Ben could not talk his way out of anything. This was the first time that we saw VERY surprised looks on Ben's face when people took certain actions. It's the first time in the history of the island that he felt that it was important enough to turn the donkey wheel (maybe).

Also ask yourself this. If Charles was the leader of the island for a short amount of time - and was given access to 'future' information, wouldn't he know how to invest money? Wouldn't he know what technology to look further into - to acquire wealth and eventutally use to return to the island?

Lots of thoughts... love to hear what you think and pardon the chaos of this message - a lot of it was coming to me much like Desmond's memory about Dan at the hatch.

KeepingAwake said...

Also, could the vaccine that the Others were injecting into themselves have been to protect them from radiation poisoning? If there is a radioactive bomb buried under the Swan (or perhaps under the Orchid-giving it the power to change time), perhaps any Other in the proximity of the bomb needed protection from the radiation?

And this also explains the inability to have babies, potentially. Constant exposure to low levels of radiation might have made the women sterile. Just a thought--haven't really fleshed it out into a theory yet.

Roland said...

Benny, thanks for the clarification, I thought he just picked up the knife. How does the Book of Laws figure into it? I will have to watch Cabin Fever again. Still think its neat that they incorporated this into the current show where Alpert is GOING to see Locke.

Jason, perhaps I'm being too harsh on Daniel. You know, the writers and producers have a way of spinning a character in a certain way only to find out that he/she is completely different than what you thought at first. I guess this was my first impression. I didn't like the fact that he worked for Charles Widmore. He could be on the time travel to find a cure I suppose. As this show revealed, there is a LOT more to Daniel than meets the eye. I don't trust him right now. He could either be good or evil. The jury is still out.

Jazzygirl said...

Okay my question is this...if the bomb is/was under the Swan, wouldn't it have gone off when Desmond threw the switch? I agree that it's highly likely it's buried near a station and could be the cause of all these illnesses...but wouldn't it have exploded with the hatch and destroyed the island or a good chunk of it?

KeepingAwake said...

@ Jazzy-I think it would have caused a gazillion problems like blowing up the Island, and giving everyone acute radiation sickness, yes.

Which is why I think it might be under The Orchid. Not only did it not detonate with the Swan, but it contains the type of energy you'd need to power tine-travel.

Benny said...

@KeepingAwake

It's not that the women are infertile, they get pregnant but die in their second trimester or in childbirth. You're right that this could be an effect of radiation poisoning but I just wanted to clarify.

@Roland
I'm just guessing it was the Book of Laws because the other two items were a baseball glove and the Mystery Tale #40 comic book (mind you it could be that).
The fact that a 'Book of Laws' is referenced in both the Judeo-Christian faith (Old testament) and the Baha'i faith could have significance.

Could LAWS=RULES? Less likely.

And as for the Daniel situation, my guess would be that even though he probably is aware that Widmore is financing his research, he possibly doesn't know that Widmore has less than good intentions. Either case (fled vs. went looking for answers) is a possibility and only future episodes will tell.

Jason said...

I think they can not have kids because a group of Losties end up in the past with survivors from the Black Rock and having offspring. That said, what if descendants of the mix of Losties and Black Rockers reach a point where those Losties are being born - and time says - nope - you can not have kids because your mom or dad has just been born - that is a paradox... I am not sure it's the H-Bomb as much as it is 'rules of time.'

Jeremy Barker said...

So was the reason Locke didn't pick the compass when Alpert visited him was because it wasn't his compass, it was Alpert's? Anyway, loved the episode. No Jack!

The Alex Ross Collector said...

Sure Ellie=Eloise Hawkings being Daniel Faraday's mom is pretty much a closed deal but could Dan's dad be Charles Widmore?????

Discuss...

ronald said...

For all we know Faraday's mother could be someone else. I think we are falling for the redirect. I was kind of hoping that Ellie is the offspring of Sawyer and Julia. Widmore was of the island so maybe Penny was too ? Who then is the mother of Penny? That must be a whopper of a revelation.

Benny said...

@Jeremy Barker
Locke DID pick the compass.
Picked: compass, vial of granules, knife
Left: Book of Laws, comic book Mystery Tales #40, baseball glove


Another link for the Ellie=Eloise/Widmore connection:
The way Penny and Des meet is at the monastery when Penny picks up the wine for his father, who seems known by the monk. Coincidentally, that same monk has a picture of himself with our dear Mrs Hawking!

Now Widmore & Hawking doesn't lead quite easily to Faraday but hey, sometimes people take different names! (i.e. Kate Austen, not her real dad)

So yeah, just another obscure connection!

Benny said...

*his* father --> *her* father

humanebean said...

Jason's comment reminded me of an issue regarding Juliet that I've never read anyone else commenting on. I'd be curious to know what you guys think of this. Forgive me if I'm raising an issue that's been done to death - given Juliet's ongoing revelations as to her knowledge and understanding of the island and it's occupants, this issue seems increasingly relevant.

In "One of Us", Juliet learned that her sister had cancer and Ben tried to talk her into staying on the island, promising her that Jacob would cure her sister. Then he says, "Unless, of course, you don't have faith in HIM." When during her first 6 months on the island did Juliet learn of Jacob's powers? In the same episode, Sayid reminds Juliet that she had said to him, "if I told you everything I knew, you'd kill me". At the time, we assumed that it meant how much she knew of the Others' actions against the Losties.

But now, we again have hints that Juliet knows, oh so much more than THAT. Latin, the Other Language. Richard Alpert, the Dorian Gray of Islandia. I think back to how quickly Juliet gulped down her orange juice and tranquilizer (Tranqueray?) even though she learned that Mittleos Bioscience was "not exactly in Portland".

Who IS Juliet?

humanebean said...

Oh, and for those interested in a bit more discussion about the bomb and it's possibilities, check out this great article over at Popular Mechanics:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/science_news/4301690.html

Kudos to Doc Arzt's Lost Blog for providing the link.

Benny said...

From an interview with Darlton:

Mrs. Hawking is related to someone we already know.
D.L.: Hell no, we won’t tell you!
C.C.: True.
D.L.: Carlton!

and

OK, Locke can escape death somehow.
D.L.: He looks pretty dead to me.

Now that doesn't confirm anything but they might be hints!

Interview transcript available on E! Online

The Chapati Kid said...

As usual, an excellent recap! Might I recommend the A Channel (Ch 20) instead of ABC for the future, Nikki? They showed everything, and when they switched back signals to ABC five minutes before 9, I got to see the preview for next week as well.

Re: Daniel seeming more focused in these new episodes. Isn't this because he now has his constant? Remember how in his book he wrote Desmond is my constant? And that seemed to help him become more focused. Could that be the reason? What DOES he go read in that book then -- to knock on the hatch door? That Desmond is his constant, that's why he can approach him out of the timeline?

Re: the H-bomb. Isn't this the second time Daniel has had to defused a potential radioactive site? In the last season he was sent to the station to depower that giant contraption as well, wasn't he? (I'm so fuzzy on names and things, unlike you.)

I was really interested by the fact that Juliet cut off John right before he said Ethan's name to Sawyer, when Sawyer asked him who shot him. Does she know something she won't reveal?

Now it makes sense that Ben was expecting all these folk on the island. If Locke, Sawyer etc. are writing the past NOW, then Richard, Ben et al. (the Others) have had these guys as part of their lore/history for over 50 years now. And that's how they know so much about them -- they know about the Losties from the Losties. Time Loop anyone.

Finally, didn't Richard or someone else mention that the tents were only temporary, Nikki? (You mentioned in your post that before the cabins, they were living in tents.) But I think Richard says that they had to evacuate their current quarters due to the radiation leak, and were camping out here temporarily.

joshua said...

One quick thing, and my apologies if someone has brought this up before, as I haven't read through all the comments today...

Was the woman whom Desmond questioned at the library not the same woman that helped Hurley make Flight 815 back in the first season? And if so, is this simply a matter of recasting local talent, or does this character hold some higher significance?

Benny said...

@Joshua

When I looked at the casting last night, she was that flight attendant. It is most likely an issue of casting rather than significance. I have not looked at her name tag as a flight attendant, bu her casting name for this episode was Moira.

The Chapati Kid said...

Re: radiation poisoning and pregnant women -- looks like Dr. Cheng was on that island long after Widmore, Ellie and co. departed from there. The Dharma initiative looks like a clear 70s thing (Super 8 film, the whole new ageyness thing with namaste etc.), and there was Cheng's baby, plus a pregnant lady walking around the camp. So the buried H-bomb can't have been leaking then, right? It must be a catastrophe after that and before Ben and his experiments.

myselfixion said...

Wasn't Mrs Hawking's first name in the credits when she first appeared?

humanebean said...

A second viewing reveals that when Widmore stops Desmond before he can walk out of his office with Mama Faraday's address, he tells him, "Deliver your message". Perhaps not too surprising that Widmore is once again aware of things he ought to know nothing about ... but, if he knows THIS, does he also know that Ben is in L.A. as well? Is he deliberately sending his daughter into danger to suit his own ends, hoping that it will work out to his advantage?

Nikki Stafford said...

myselfixion: I think every time she's appeared, the actress's name has appeared in the opening credits, which means her character's name is not there (I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Fionnula Flanagan's name is the only thing there). When she first appeared in season 3, we definitely didn't get her name, and it's never been uttered on-screen.

Brian Douglas said...

Re: DHARMA and the bomb
Here's my theory as to what happened. The Others took Faraday's advice and burried the bomb. The DHARMA Initiative arrived and unknowingly built the Swan station on top of it (maybe not literally). Their experiments trigged the bomb to detonate, which in turn created an EMP that interacted with the island's unique properties. This was the infamous incident. Fortunately, the DHARMA Initiative was able to repurpose the Swam station to prevent a disaster, and covered it up as a psychological experiment so as not to cause alarm amongst their people.

Re: Widmore
I think Widmore knows Ben is in LA, and is knowingly putting his daughter at risk in order to find a way back to the island.

Benny said...

In the preview, did anyone notice the column of light. As in spotlight directed up a long shaft and out through a small window in a metal door...

Teebore said...

Yeah, I thought the same thing when I saw the shaft of light...looks like Locke and Co. end up back in season one.

Benny said...

@Nikki et al.

With regards to credits surrounding Fionnula Flannagan. She was credited on Flashes Before Your Eyes and the cast call lists her as "Miss Hawking". Since I don't have my DVDs here, I can't confirm she appeared at the end with the character name.

As for The Lie, she was uncredited. But she will appear in episode 5 This Place is Death and unless you want a spoiler, don't look at her credit name on imdb.com

Also, if you actually want major spoilers, look at the casting call for the next two episodes. Some of it has been hinted in a docarzt.com column.

If you would like to know which characters will be dropping by without knowing much story-wise, the imdb.com cast list is a good place to start.

Steve said...

Nikki, i mentioned in the last post if you could watch the first couple of seconds of the first show in the first season. i was really wondering if you see what I saw. I swear that there is something black & metal next to Jack's head. It look's like Ben's Baton. Curious to see what you think.

I'm starting to really see how people are connected to this island. The only reason they think Locke is special is because he told Richard he is. Just because he appeared to him 2 years before his birth . So technically should he thank Desmond for causing the plane to crash? Or Widmore for sending men to the island to get Ben? Or Ben for moving the island so that he was able to travel through different times to tell Richard he's special. he's only special because they told him that he is and then he believed it then he went back in time and told them he was special. If it's because he was able to walk then they should have gone after Rose with her cancer thing as well. Speaking of which what happened to her and Bernard.

So my next comment is would it also be unbelievable that Desmond's baby is that same Charlie that was stranded on the island? Could there be some altercation between Desmond/Penny/Ben & baby Charlie and Penny dies and in a heroic effort Desmond before he dies he saves the baby by passing it to Faraday's mom and somehow she hides him in time only to be destined to save his father and friends on the island. Charlie could have been adopted in Britian(the most magical island according to Desmond) It's odd the both are British and he could only see Charlie's death and not anyone else's like say Eko or anyone else who died. This whole show is about time travel and flashbacks and forwards.

On a side note for a second I though if they stayed in 1954 that Sawyer would have hooked up with Ellie and thus Faraday would have been the offspring! But the Widmore/Ellie does make more sense

ninja raiden said...

Hey Nikki. Could Theresa Spenser be the infamous Annie from the Dharma Initiative? Her sister says she wakes up looking for her "dolly" (Ben's doll?). Plus she has a different reaction to the "sickness". Plus, with what we've seen of Widmore, could it be that he would be so spiteful of Ben that he would lock Annie away with the help of a possibly unknowing Faraday? What do you guys think of that theory?

LotteryTicket said...

These thoughts are from my notes, I've tried to remove anything that's been covered. Sorry for the length and any redundancy.

Desmond tells Charlie about a very special island with glens and monsters and deep locks (LOCKE) called Great Britain. Quote "We're here because of Daniel Faraday." Lots of promises are made. There is no way Des will break his promise to Penny. And I think it safe to predict that Des will certainly go back to the island. So Penny might be a future casualty, releasing Des from his promise. "Promise me that you'll never go back to that island again." (Penny) "Why in Gods name would I ever want to go back there?" (Des) Good question.

I agree with the possible future use of Faraday's equipment/notes. Also the use of the term 'record' to refer to Daniel, twice.

We meet the Spencer sisters. Was anyone was able to read that very Dharma-like name plate? Theresa skipped to 3 year's of age wanting her dolly (sound familiar) and chats with her father who's been dead for 5 years.

Widmore's office continues his collection of 'island' art with polar bears and NAMASTE. The address book is hugh and looks like its got a lot of information in it. Obviously, Melanie, the secretary, does not have access to these numbers. Widmore says "Wait, Desmond. After you deliver your message" go back into hiding. I am not remembering correctly. Did Desmond tell Widmore about giving Daniel's mom a message?

Was that Peter Rabbit or Runaway Bunny that Pen recites? Charlie has a pink bunny. Is this an Easter Egg, to go with Charlie Pace's pink bunny slippers?

Pen says that she and Charlie were fishing, unsuccessfully. Desmond lies, unsuccessfully. Penny is fishing for answers. She get it. Daniel's mom is in LA. Penny has an agenda, too.

ON THE ISLAND - Daniel's group, "dizzy and double vision" were these Thersa's early symptoms? Charlotte says they are running for their lives. Looks like a slow walk into a trap to me. Miles gives up Daniel like a hot pocket. And what's with that crazy camera-on-the gun pan by Ellie from Miles to Daniel?

Ellie says there were 20 of you on the beach. LOL That means they heard Rose, Bernard and Frogurt yelling all day.

Faraday KNOWS that Miles can hear the dead. His responses, 'Did they happen to mention what year?"

Maybe Daniel's professed love of Charlotte is not real. I think that he realizes that if Charlotte doesn't find a constant soon, she may die. He is presenting himself as her 'love' in hopes that if it worked for Des, it will work for Charlotte. Will she buy it? She has certainly changed her behavior towards Daniel since the FDW turned.

There was something odd about Alpert's threat to Daniel. It reads as if you do anything other than help disarm the bomb, then YOU will hurt her. Instead of the more customary, I will hurt her.

Alpert's reveal of the 'customary chain of command' and we' pick our leadership' seems to indicate not one, but a cabal of Others at the top.

Only Daniel and Locke have private conversations with Others. In Daniel's case, he goes with Ellie to see Jughead and reveals he is from the future. Locke sits down with Richard and reveals he's from the future. Flash. These two conversations along with the incident may be our flash points. And I believe them to be history changing.

Best line, from Sawyer: "Drop your gun, Blondie" This is in front of Jughead and the connection to Archie of comic book fame. So if Blondie is Ellie and Archie is Widmore, who is Jughead, his time traveling friend?

ON THE ISLAND - John Locke's group
"Who are these people? (Locke) Sawyer's reply "didn't have time to ask with Frogurt on fire and all" Moment of silence.

Juliet knows things. I suspect her to be Widmore daughter. She finds Ben, gets on the island and can't get back off.

If the bomb isn't buried right where it was hanging, then the Others would have had to have moved it. So I theorize they tossed it down the volcano and it blended with the magma and unusual properties of the island and somehow a donkey wheel went in with it . . . voilé, hot FDW. The cryogenic refrigeration comes later. Years go by and Dharma build Orchid on top volcanic ridge, tunnels down to the site and harnesses the unlimited powers, creates a time travel device 'pin hole' and sends message 30 years into the future [comic con].

Widmore will remember John Locke the man who tracked him to Crazy Town. So while Ben stated that 'I am sorry that I made your life so miserable." maybe it was Widmore putting him through the ringer, and Ben just didn't stop him. Widmore certainly has more anger to direct to Locke than Ben.

Where are Rose and Bernard? I think they they are having a bit of time jumping on their own like Locke as they were separated after the attack. I'm holding on to the theory that they are Adam and Eve.

I'm not biting on the Mrs. or Miss Hawking being Daniel's mother. So, here's my thought. LA. Mother. Private. Related. It can't be Mrs. Reyes, she's not private. So, I'm going with Margo Shephard. No evidence, just thinking about the Shephard Jacob Abaddon connection not mentioned this season. That makes Faraday, Jack and Claire and Aaron related. Any takers?

LotteryTicket said...

Once last comment to the Other testing of children. I don't think Locke passsed the test. That means he is not the leader, until Locke tells Richard in 1954 that he "is their leader". Self-fulfilling prophecy. So until Locke picks the Book of Laws and puts down the knife, he can take up the role of leader?

What were Ben's objects?

So have other Losties been tested. Certainly, Walt and they let him go. Are the objects always the same? Hurley the comic book. Or, if Kate was tested, did her little plane make the cut. Where is that plane that she was willing to kill for? This would assume physical time travel by Richard, which we are not sure about.

If we are to assume that Aaron is an Other leader - (Jacob reincarnated) what object of his will he be able to identify? Something from the cabin? Is Christian is speaking for him because he's a baby?

Benny said...

@LotteryTicket, I have a few comments and questions for clarifications. Maybe some answers!

Theresa skipped to 3 year's of age wanting her dolly (sound familiar)
Does not sound familiar, who did that refer to? The most popular reference I heard was Annie, but she made the doll at a later age! And I was not able to read Abigail's nametag.

Desmond did not mention he had a message to deliver. Either Charles assumed or somehow knew.

Richard's comment with regards to how "we" pick our leader is more of a cultural statement rather than identifying a group.

These two conversations along with the incident (are you referring to THE incident?) may be our flash points. (Flash points to what, that history is changing?


Juliet knows things. I suspect her to be Widmore daughter. She finds Ben, gets on the island and can't get back off.
This baffles me. I understand it's a theory, but I can't figure out how you came up with that one!
It's interesting.

sends message 30 years into the future [comic con].
Can you let us in on what that message was? I don't really follow the comic con news

Where are Rose and Bernard? I think they they are having a bit of time jumping on their own like Locke as they were separated after the attack.
Yes, Rose and Bernard are likely jumping on their own and had not been captured yet. And by their own, obviously away from the group and not different jumps (it's been said on other boards).


Hawking not Faraday's mom. Yeah, a lot of people are buying it, many are not as they think it's cheap of the writers. Some made the Widmore is Dan's dad connection while others made the Widmore is Ellie/Eloise's brother. I dunno.
My take is that they give obvious clues to have people talk about how Hawking is Dan' mom (I'll buy) but it takes discussion time away from something else, and that'll be the reveal. I call true but distraction.

Joanne said...

This episode really got me thinking about the childhood of the Oceanic 6. Thinking back, we know about John being raised in foster care, Sawyer must have lived with someone after his parents died, we have NEVER seen Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Sun or Kate as little little kids and I think they are all only children (did Hurley have a brother?). Could it be possible that they were born on the island and raised off the island and had to return (and must re-return)?

Joanne said...

Did anyone notice that the painting in Widmore's office looks like one of the paintings in Thomas's apartment? (Thomas=Claire's b'friend and Aarons father).
"Raised By Another". What is the connection between Thomas and Widmore??

Nikki Stafford said...

OK! I have a lot to say today after mulling over it more and reading all of your comments. Let's go back up to the top.

Benny:
Has anyone else realized that with this season so far, and to some degree last year, the show has really taken the focus off of the passengers of flight 815.

I agree... and when we have episodes like the one this week, where other than Sawyer and Locke we don't have a single other survivor, I don't actually miss them. I'm looking forward to the Oceanic 6 next week, but I'd be looking forward to another episode focusing on any of the Others or Widmore, etc. You say that maybe the survivors were the catalyst to get to this ending, and I think you're right. Just as they were catalysts to get us to the island in the first place (there's the popular theory that Widmore used that plane to find the island), they were used to get us to this place. However, I do think they are important in and of themselves... otherwise, wouldn't the entire first season sort of be a waste? Who cares about their backstories if they were nothing but a bunch of people who happened to be on a plane? The fact that most of us assume they were hand-picked to be on that plane points to them taking on a greater significance at some point. And, as you say, I think their significance will be within the parameters of Widmore. I think the Widmore vs. Ben thing will take over as our lead story, with them being important pieces to put that one together.

OK, I just want more scenes of Widmore and Ben together.

fb:
was it just me, or did almost all the people on the 1954 iteration of the island (with the exception of richard because he never ages) look like they were NOT from the 1954 era?

I thought so, too, but then I've seen a lot of pics of women in the war in the 1940s and they look like they just stepped out of a gym in 2009, too. We typically think of women in the 1950s as looking like Betty Draper and wearing their poofy skirt dresses, but if they had to be in the army or in the war, they were wearing fatigues, and suddenly they could be any woman right now. :) But I thought exactly the same thing at first. :) Perhaps they're all time-travelling?

Nikki Stafford said...

Blam: You made me laugh out loud with your Billy Joel grammar comment (by the way, I HATE that song... and by typing it, I put it in my own head all day... dammit, there it is again).

I take it Des and Penny's kid was tiny and goopy enough at birth for you, Nikki? 8^)

Absolutely. At first he looked really clean coming out, but the closeup made him goopy enough that I was OK with it. The thing about Lost is, the circumstances of the birth are always over the top (Claire goes into labour and pops the kid out instantly and is walking without issue minutes later; Sun's doctor wants to go to a c-section without even looking at the situation; Juliet does an ultrasound on Sun and makes observations she couldn't have possibly made) but the babies they choose always look good. Locke was teeny-tiny, this baby was goopy. Okay, Aaron had a head the size of the fuselage when he was born, but I was willing to overlook him and chalk it up to the electromagnetic energy creating this giant island baby. ;)

I, too, wondered why Richard didn't seem more surprised to see that compass. Maybe he's always believed this sort of thing is possible (or, who knows, maybe other leaders have visited him this way) and it didn't faze him.

Did anyone else think it poor continuity when Charlotte went from having an appropriately dark and not too profuse nosebleed before fainting to having this wide, oddly bright red streak down to her chin when we see her moments later on the ground?

I thought so, too, the first time I saw the episode, but when I saw it the second time, watch how quickly that blood spurts out of her nose, then she falls face first onto the ground, and if it was continuing to gush out, it would have been smeared all over her face from being on the grass like that. So in the end, I thought it was OK. :)

I was interested, and almost surprised, to hear Juliet confirm that Richard is old. Until the emphasis on time travel in this season's first two episodes, I'd never subscribed to the theory that Richard was time-traveling...

I agree... I did switch over to the time travelling camp, but it would appear the man is simply immortal.

As for Juliet using the term "Others," she's done it a few times now, and as other readers have said, I think she does so with sarcasm. When Jack seems surprised in season 4 to hear they had therapists in New Otherton, she says, "It's hard being an Other, Jack," and she does so with that same smirk she uses in this episode.

Nikki Stafford said...

redeem: I've also wondered what happened to Bernard and Rose?? They even had some redshirts tagging along, but somehow lost those two. I guess they ran in another direction when the flaming arrows started flying, but you'd think, with the numbers of the survivors left on the island being, well, TWO, they'd try to stick together and make sure they don't lose anymore. I hope nothing happened to them.

Mike:
Guess what, all - we KNOW where the H-bomb ends up. Nikki, you were right in your guess about it ending up next to the Swan station. In episode 2.4, Jack and Sayid try to explore certain areas of the hatch, but are blocked by several feet of reinforced concrete. Sayid's comment? "The last time I saw concrete poured over everything like this was Chernobyl." That HAS to be where the bomb is now!

This is a very good theory! Do you think the bomb could have withstood the electromagnetic blast at the end of season 2?

Nikki Stafford said...

humanebean:
Aaron is 3 months old when the O6 depart. Ji Yeon is born about 6 months later. And now, li'l Charlie comes along about 3 months after THAT. Quite the Junior Justice League we have here.

Ha! I thought exactly the same thing, that all these kids are so close in age there MUST be a reason for it.

Locke can't shoot a retreating "Jones" not just because he's one of his "people" - the island won't let him. Widmore, for good or ill ... still has work to do.

Absolutely; and I think there's a third reason. Locke just doesn't have it in him. In "Further Instructions," we see in the flashback where he takes the undercover cop into the woods and holds the gun up to him, and he just can't do it. He had his father in the brig and could do whatever he wanted... he had to bring in Sawyer. Sawyer definitely has it in him (notice how quickly he pulled the trigger when he had the gun pointed at Widmore) but John definitely doesn't.

I can't escape the feeling that Theresa's involvement in Our Man Dan's experiments may have been accidental ... and he's been searching for an answer ever since.

Absolutely. I agree 100%... I love Dan too much to think he could have just abandoned her.

Again, we need to return to that first scene in which we saw him and he had a caretaker, like something was wrong with him. What was wrong with him? Why did he require a caregiver in his home? If something had happened to Theresa at his hand, I would think it would be far too painful for him to deal with and he could have snapped. Or, as you say, he immediately began looking for an answer, and the time travelling unravelled him and he ended up like that, an empty shell of who he used to be.

Richard is the only character we've seen thus far who can demonstrably travel through time in a directive way, body and consciousness. Or, has he been popping up off-island on separate trips, each in it's parallel time on the island?

I wonder if he's never time travelled at all? As Blam said above, I think he's immortal, has never time travelled, and has calmly moved forward in a linear fashion, with things happening around him and him playing the important part he's supposed to. When Locke zipped into the time period where he needed his gunshot wound tended to, Alpert happened to be standing right there, in his own time period, because Locke the time-traveller had told him to. But he's not actually time travelling, he's simply reacting to the others who are. That's just a theory... which could be debunked next week. ;)

Sparty_Cyclone:
I agree that Daniel named his rat after colleague (perhaps mentor?) Eloise Hawking, but I don't think she was his mother. That's too convenient and easy for these writers. All we know is that Daniel's mother is currently living in Los Angeles. For all we know, it could be the butcher who is watching over Bentham. I just think they want us to believe it is Mrs. Hawking to throw us off.

Honestly, I really hope you're right. I love being surprised. This is why I avoid speculation, because I don't like figuring things out in advance. It's fun, but it's even more fun when your assumptions are debunked and you're surprised by another turn of events. :)

Nikki Stafford said...

fb: and i am on the bandwagon of those who think there is zero chemistry between dan and charlotte. to me, charlotte's character is a complete waste.

You know, I've never been a huge fan of Charlotte. She's curt and cold and I just don't get why she's there. But it's that idea that she was born on the island and has no memory of it (that comment that Miles made about her trying to find her way back in season 4 still rings loudly) that makes her intriguing. It also, of course, makes her nosebleed and apparent collapse about as suspenseful as Jack's appendectomy when we know he's already off the island in the future... well, that and the fact we can see Charlotte walking around in the preview to next week's episode! :)

I'm hoping that Charlotte might seem a waste of space now, but later she'll be proven to be immensely important.

Jazzygirl:
I dreamt all about Lost last night. Kept waking up and thinking I was in a new "time". LOL Wow, I need help!

LOL! OK, I'm SO glad I'm not the only one who has creepy crazy nightmares after Lost every week. I always have very fitful sleeps and keep waking up thinking of new things. And have weird dreams where smoke monsters and jungles are after me. Where the heck are the dreams about Desmond and Sawyer?? Sheesh.

Nikki Stafford said...

Roland: Good points! I think Benny addresses this after your comment, but Locke did choose the compass. A few people have made the comment that he didn't, so maybe I'll post something separate on that today. :)

KeepingAwake said...

To the folks who mentioned the paintings in Widmore's office:

Those paintings were there in Flashes Before Your Eyes as well. However, in some of the closeups of Desmond in Flashes, the framed were reversed, generating a lot of conversation about why the paintings had flipped. The Producers eventually said the frame was flipped and not to worry about it being significant to the overall story.

I think the paintings look similar to Thomas' because Jack Bender paints most of the art we see, including the Hatch Painting. Not all of it, but a lot of it.

YolandaAsh said...

I was a little confused by Juliet in the episode... She made it sound like she was a gung ho Other with her talk of Latin and Other 101, but I was kind of under the impression she was held at arms length from the Others. Maybe shes just been with the Losties so long I have forgotten her Otherton ways??
Also why be fluent in Latin again? It seems like Hostiles only come to the island every 20 to 30 years is that enough to justify learning all that? Also when the Others were first stalking the Losties, they weren't communicating in Latin then were they?? I think I need to go back and watch all the seasons again.....

One more question. Regarding time travel sickness, I don't understand how Charlotte can be the only one effected by this? Wouldn't all the survivors leaping around be effected the same way? I mean I don't think Sawyer's constant is Locke or Juilet... ideas, comments, theories?

humanebean said...

Nikki,

"Aaron had a head as big as the fuselage". I nearly spewed coffee all over my desk! Had it hit the computer, I might have missed entering the numbers. Careful with that sense of humor ... somebody could get hurt!

Locke and the gun: you're right, he doesn't seem to 'have it in him' to shoot people. BUT, he has no trouble burying his knife in people's back (Naomi) or their front (Jones' pal). Given that his choice of the knife was a telling point in Richard's test ... this is significant somehow.

Side note: the town where Daniel was shown watching the discovery of flight 815 was Essex, MA - the next town over from me! I'll see what I can find out about his caretaker ... ; ]

I wonder if Daniel and Theresa were doing some experiments together? Perhaps they were both affected adversely by the same experiment and Dan was unable to care for her - or Widmore had him moved to the US, putting him on the path towards his eventual return to the island.

Geez, can't Charlotte get a little lovin'? As Dan Akroyd once said on SNL, "underneath that cool, calm exterior lies a hotbed of passions, seething with vital hormonal secretions". She seemed genuinely affected by Dan's confession of love for her. Contrast that with the smirk she evinced when Jin commented to Sun in Korean about Dan's crush on her.

As for the bomb surviving the electromagnetic blast: the explosive materials that would surround the core would erode over time, as would the radioactive matter itself, perhaps rendering it useless. At worst, you might wind up with plutonium scattered around - not nice but not a nuclear nightmare waiting to happen. (I got this from the Popular Mechanics article cited earlier) Dammit, Jim! I'm a LOST fanatic, not a rocket scientist!

Lottery Ticket: Widmore's 'Namaste' painting is apparently identical to the one seen in the studio of Thomas, Aaron's baby daddy. Check it out over at Lostpedia - http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Thomas
I also rewatched "Flashes Before Your Eyes" the other day and thought one of the paintings in Desmond's flat looked similar, too. Hmmmm...

LOVE the idea you tossed out about Juliet possibly being Widmore's daughter, making her Penny's sister in some way. It's my new favorite Theory Waiting To Be Shot Down. I can't find any evidence for it, but the thought captivates me all the same!

Benny: the ComicCon video showed Dr. Chang, in an agitated state, talking about a "good authority" who had told him about some future events on the island ... and the voice of the cameraman is none other than Our Man Dan. Check it out at Lostpedia - http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Dharma_booth_video

Teebore said...

Well, regarding the Others speaking Latin, its entirely possible they speak it not just as a "secret language" but because their society goes back far enough to a time when Latin was a "living" language, and their primary form of communication-so that tradition has continued through the years even as they learned other languages. Maybe?

At the very least, it certainly adds to the air of "longevity" that surrounds the Others in general and Richard in particular.

Rebecca said...

re: Jason
I think that it is a decent theory that the Others can't have children because it is a time course correction. At least, that thought came to my mind right before I read your comment :)

Last week I was joking with my family about Lost: The Next Generation and this week with baby Charlie I started laughing to myself. It can't be a coincident to have so many of them having children so close together.

Just a strange passing thought... Is it possible that Theresa's conciousness is jumping to someone on the island? Could she be "in" Ellie or Charlotte or Juliet for that matter?

Loved the line where Widmore (!!!!!) says to Richard, "Their leader is some sodding old man. You think he can track me? You think he knows this island better than I do?"

I noticed that Ellie doesn't really seem that surprised when Daniel tells her they are from the future.

I've been trying to figure out the whole timeline with Ben and Widmore and when Ben became the leader, because he wasn't really an Other, he was brought onto the island with his father for the DI, so it seems like Charles had already left at this point?

Also found it strange that the Others, led by Richard kill the American soldiers in a very short time, yet the DI was there long enough to build all of those compounds and everything without the Others killing them. In the end it is Ben who really destroys the DI people anyway. Why are the Others less hostile to the DI? Is it because they know Ben is special?

Why did Daniel send Des to Oxford if his mother was in LA? How long has Daniel been away that he doesn't even know where his mother lives?

Re: Brian Douglas
I think Widmore knows Ben is in LA, and is knowingly putting his daughter at risk in order to find a way back to the island.

I think this is extremely possible. For all we know, Ben knew that he was putting Alex in danger when he sent her out with Rousseau and her boyfriend. Now Charles could be doing the same thing with Penny. Both claim to love their daughters, but I think they are both too obsessed with the island to really care for anybody else.

Deborah said...

In regards to the previous comment, "Desmond and Penny have a baby whom they name Charlie, he goes back in time to the 1950s, ends up on the island as Charles, has an affair and produces Daniel, then gets off the island and has Penny, who grows up, marries Desmond, who helps Daniel time travel, and has a child who... goes back in time and becomes her father" that would make Charles Widmore his own Grandpa!

flpcavalcanti said...

hey nik... don´t you think young widmore looks like frank sinatra? hehe love your blog and your books. (=

Nikki Stafford said...

Deborah: Exactly! :) I took the theory even further in my DocArzt column (totally tongue-in-cheek by the way... I think some people are taking me seriously on that one).

flpcavalcanti: You're right!! Ever since he first appeared I've been trying to figure out who he looked like, and that is totally who it is. :)

Anonymous said...

When I first saw Ellie, I thought she reminded me an AWFUL lot of Penny. Go back and watch it.
I wasn't even connecting the name to Widmore.
Now that I read all these posts, either that is an obvious plot by the writers to make us THINK she is Daniel's mother(and Penny's mother through Widmore), or she really is.

Matt

Anonymous said...

That Popular Science article (mentioned by another commenter) also posited that burying an H-bomb with leaking plutonium (if that was indeed the problem), even in concrete, could result in polluting the groundwater with radioactive material.

And of course, radiation can do a few things:

1) cure cancer
2) heal illnesses quickly
4) affect pregnancies

Did Daniel just save Rose and Locke but doom the future inhabitants to infertility? That would mean that losing pregnancies wasn't Ben's fault, the timing of the infertility just coincided with the leaking of the plutonium. Hmm...

It would also mean that you couldn't solve the problem, unless they brought in some industrial-strength Brita filters stat!

Emilia said...

What struck me most about this week's episode was Locke's interaction with Richard...it seems to me that there are some Macbethian elements coming into play.

My interpretation is that it's entirely possible that John Locke is not necessarily "special" or "chosen" at all. Maybe the only reason Richard believes Locke is their leader is Locke told him he is. Think about it: it's 1954, Richard has no idea what's going on, Locke shows up, hands him the compass, tells him he's the leader of the Others as well as the time and place of his birth, then disappears. Richard reacts by being present at Locke's birth, "tests" him as a child, then "tests" him again when he comes to the island. But the "selection process" would never have happened if time-travelling Locke had not set it into motion...my head hurts.

I, too, think Charlotte is super annoying and semi-useless. She totally ruins excellent Daniel Faraday scenes with her sass. BUT I'm so interested in the fact that she claims to have been born on the island AND she's suffering from the sickness...which means she needs a constant. But why isn't the whole island serving as a constant for her if she's been there before? Does she need an actual physical landmark like New Otherton or the four-toed statue? Does it need to be a person? Either way, if she truly is an anthropologist, I look forward to hearing her knowledge.

Lastly, why is Widmore (Mr. Secrecy) so quick to hand out addresses to Desmond (he gives away both Penny's and Dan's mom's)? Assuming Widmore still feels in control of his quest for the island, I assume that Desmond is unknowingly making himself a pawn of Mr. W's. I hope Desmond, Pen and baby Charlie can stay safe! Des episodes are the best!

Teebore said...

The anonymous poster above left off the #3 effect of radiation, which has to be: granting awesome superpowers, as seen in almost every comic book from the 60s :)

Blam said...

I haven't finished catching up on posts yet, but...

Nikki: "I remember back with the Lost Experience when they revealed at the end what Hurley's numbers actually were, and then Damon said the revelations should be considered canon. Uh... NO? I think they should not. I think if it's not on the screen, in the dialogue, on my show ... then it's not canon."

I recall reading this in your Season 3 book, Nikki, and being livid. While I haven't followed any of the online games / treasure hunts, I never minding them existing... until you talked about this.

There are two major mysteries left from early in the series that haven't really been touched upon and which I've been afraid might not get adequately answered. (Yes, there are lots of things left to be revealed, but most of the revelations I have faith will occur or are occurring as the story proceeds.)

One is what the numbers are -- with the corollary of whether playing them guaranteed that Hurley would win the lottery somehow. I'm willing to believe that the lottery win was a grand coincidence, but not that the numbers he overheard in the sanitorium and decided to play were also the numbers on the underside of the hatch door, etc.

And the other is is how all these people have so many interconnections in their lives. Whether or not they were all maneuvered onto that place or called to the island somehow, there's more going on than can be explained away by the reasons why they may have legitimately crossed paths in LA or Sydney.


Teebore: "I also love that the Others are basically murderous hermit crabs. In the 50s the army comes ashore and picks a fight, so the Others kill them and appropriate their camp, clothing and equipment. 20 years later, along comes Dharma and the Others wipe them out and move into their barracks."

A great observation! Some could argue that they're only doing what other indigenous people -- if indeed that's what they are -- have been unable to do when invaders overrun and "colonize" their land; with people, after all, what you describe usually happens in reverse.

Jason: "I think that some of this group will firmly end up far enough in the past ... [that they] will chronicle everything ... and they will know things from the future because they will have already lived it or will have it chronicled. An example of this will be Juliet's sister being cured of cancer or her coworker hit by a bus ... Ben knew these things - not because he has powers or the ability to cure Juliet's sister, but because he's been given the information. He's always been confident that people would do certain thing - and that's because he knew they would based on what's been documented and been passed down to him."

That's a first-rate theory, one that sounds so possible I'm almost worried that you're spilling inside information. We know that Jacob isn't a myth, and that seemingly supernatural things are possible in the reality of the show, but the explanation of how Ben could rise to his position of esteem and seeming omniscience in this way is fantastic. And you also remind me that I've wondered in the past why none of the castaways seem to be chronicling what's happened to them.

Benny said...

@Emilia:
A constant does not have to be a person. In fact, when Daniel explains it to Desmond, Des asks if that constant could be a person. Dan says probably, which leads him to pick Penny. So it does not have to be a person.

@Blam:
With regards to the numbers, I'm expecting some answers from the DI episodes. Since they are the ones who wrote them into the programming of the Swan and on the outside of the hatch.
As for the connections, some of them will be explained (or have to) while others (read: most) might not. The producers have mentioned that some things that viewers may consider mysteries might no be explained (i.e. how Kelvin landed in the Swan) and this was related to the connections. By the end, we won't know all the reasons why there are connections.

dansmot said...

I love all these comments,I've said it before all of the poster's here are WAY smarter than me, I always learn something from reading all your posts. However, IF Des and Pen's Charlie grows up to be Charles Widmore on the island in the 1950's wouldn't his last name be Hume, not Widmore. Also I thought of Charlie Pace when Des mentioned the little boy's name, (how cute WAS he?!) then I immediately thought of Widmore, and wondered why, even if they wanted to commemorate Charlie Pace, they would name him the same name as Widmore who Des hates, and rightly so, and Penny doesn't seem that fond of him either. There's got to be a point there, but unless you're right and it IS Widmore, I don't know what the point could be! I love those Desmond centic show's, so long as they throw in a lot of Sawyer too, I could watch forever. No Jack, Kate or Sun is fine by me, but I did miss Hurley!!

Blam said...

We hear that Theresa thinks she's different ages. Desmond was skipping between the past and present. Yet while Charlotte has been dizzy, got the nosebleed, and now passed out, we haven't seen her act confused about where or when she is.

Maybe something entirely different is going on with her, or maybe not, but it's curious.

Blam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Blam said...

Nikki: "I've also wondered what happened to Bernard and Rose ... I guess they ran in another direction when the flaming arrows started flying, but you'd think, with the numbers of the survivors left on the island being, well, TWO, they'd try to stick together and make sure they don't lose anymore."

"Rose! This way! We have to stay with the contract players... They don't die as often as the guest stars!"

"But I have a gig in Chicago!"

Blam said...

A final thought for tonight:

Ellie could just as easily be Daniel's daughter as his mother, named after Eloise Hawking (if she's his mom or just someone important to him) rather than being Eloise herself.

She could be born to Daniel (and Charlotte?) after he's traveled to 20 years before we see her in 1954.

Or she could have traveled with or without Daniel to the past at some point in her childhood, probably without him, which is why she wouldn't recognize him (I agree that when she says "you just couldn't stay away" or whatever she probably meant the plural you of whatever group she thought he was affiliated with) but would react with the sort of knowing surprise we saw when Daniel said that he was from the future.

Nikki Stafford said...

Man, I just can't keep up with the comments! Thank goodness so many of you are answering each other! :)

Steve: I keep meaning to post back to you and say I will pull out episode 1 and take a look at it this week. I'm intrigued by your theory!! :) Darlton have been making comments about how fans missed something important in the opening scene, and fans have been scouring it ever since. That could be it! :)

Nikki Stafford said...

dansmot: while I've been theorizing about Charles being his own grandfather with my tongue firmly in my cheek, to carry it further by what you're saying, what if (horrors... oh man, I can barely type this!!) Desmond and Penny return to the island and something horrible happens to Desmond and Penny returns with the baby and gives it her last name?

Other than the fact I'll be nothing but a sobbing, inconsolable mess on the floor, it could explain his surname.

Brian Douglas said...

YolandaAsh: One more question. Regarding time travel sickness, I don't understand how Charlotte can be the only one effected by this? Wouldn't all the survivors leaping around be effected the same way? I mean I don't think Sawyer's constant is Locke or Juilet... ideas, comments, theories?

I think their is some overanalysis about the whole thing. If you go back an watch the episode again, you'll notice that Daniel tells Desmond that you need "A" constant, which he describes as being something familiar in both times. The fact that Desmond found Penny to be his constant has led many to speculate that each person has a single constant of great immortance to them. Remember, Daniel wrote in his diary that Desmond could be his constant, and he's only met him twice in his life (that we know of).

Deborah: Charles Widmore his own Grandpa!

Just like Fry on Futurama. Maybe he'll be the only one immune to the powers of the four-toed aliens when they return to take over the earth.

Rebecca: For all we know, Ben knew that he was putting Alex in danger when he sent her out with Rousseau and her boyfriend.

Blam: We hear that Theresa thinks she's different ages. Desmond was skipping between the past and present. Yet while Charlotte has been dizzy, got the nosebleed, and now passed out, we haven't seen her act confused about where or when she is. Maybe something entirely different is going on with her, or maybe not, but it's curious.

Charlotte is the first person we know to be physically time-traveling, so her symptoms might not be the same. Also, where's the love for Charlotte? Of course, I might just be partial because she's hot. :-)

Nikki Stafford said...

Brian: Admit it. You liked Nikki, didn't you?

As for Charlotte's nose bleeding... remember in The Constant, all of the people in the helicopter passed through the wormhole, but only Desmond was affected, no one else on the heli was. Daniel immediately said he must have been near a huge dosage of radiation (which he was) and apparently that brings on the effects. Could Charlotte have been near a dosage, do you think? I know Dan was referring to the fact that Des was time travelling when no one else was, and wasn't referring to the nosebleed, but I still wonder about this.

Brian Douglas said...

Nikki: Admit it. You liked Nikki, didn't you?

I like you very much, Nikki. Oh, you meant the one on Lost. :-)

Ai Bags said...

@Nikki - well remembered about Daniel pointing out that Desmond must have been near a huge dose of radiation (more evidence for where the bomb is eventually buried)

Amongst all this chat about Mrs Hawking and Locke's compass and nosebleeds, I can't help thinking about things that seem to have been forgotten - by us, but hopefully not the writers.

What the hell is the smoke monster?

and

What is the point of Miles?

mgkoeln said...

Hi Nikki! Just a short nitpick on your otherwise excellent episode analysis - it has been mentioned by someone in the comments before, but maybe you overread it:

When Ellie seems to recognize Daniel, she most probably doesn't recognize him in person. The dialogue plays out like her thinking that Daniel is one of those US army guys coming back to get their bomb. So, she doesn't actually know Daniel - she simply assumes she knows who those people in the jungle must be. And of course she's wrong.

Calvin said...

I dont know if anyone has posted this nikki but, I just watched the preview for next weeks episode and it looks like the ring-wraiths have come to the island looking for frodo. (I'm talking about the screaming in the jungle)

Nikki Stafford said...

Ali Bags: You know, just like I believe Charlotte has a purpose, I believe Miles has one, too. He was important this week in knowing the soldiers had been killed and buried. (And presumably, it's their uniforms that Widmore and co. were wearing.) I think he'll have an even bigger importance soon.

I really think this late in the game, Darlton could only be introducing people who have a reason to be there. Early on there were probably missteps (Shannon doesn't seem to have made an impact on the overall story, and Nikki and Paulo DEFINITELY weren't important) but I think if they're there now, there's a reason. :)

mgkoeln: Good point, though I think it might be up for debate. Either she knew Daniel in particular (notice she kept directing all comments at him, and not at Miles or Charlotte; but then again, that could be because Miles told her Dan was the leader), or she really was talking to them as a group. I was just having a chat off-list with someone about how when she said "You" to Daniel she could have meant him or all of them, and I said if it had been in French it would have been easier to figure out (which then sparked a further discussion on whether she could have used vous, the plural, out of a lack of familiarity and only meant it in its singular sense...) ;) Ah, this wacky show.

Calvin: Holy crossover! Hahahaha!

KeepingAwake said...

In The Constant, Daniel didn't only refer to radiation as a possible factor in The Sickness. He asks" Wait, your friend, Desmond? Has he recently been exposed to high levels of radiation or electromagnetism? "

So her refers to the electromagnetism that we know was present in the Swan AND to radiation, which may or may not be present at the Swan.

dansmot said...

Nikki,what a horrible thought about Desmond, bite your lip!!
I would absolutely join you on the floor in a sobbing mess, Toronto would be shaking with my wrath!! I realize the theory about Charlie being Widmore is just that, a theory, but in the same vein, I doubt Penny would re-name the baby and I refuse to believe that cute curly haired tot could grow up to be the evil Charles Widmore!


Anyone have any thoughts on who may be behind the DNA tests on Aaron and Kate?

Deborah said...

I think Claire's mom is behind the DNA tests. The hole in that theory is that she was already in a coma when Claire got pregnant so would not have known that unless someone told her, which is possible. There were timing questions of Kate at the press conference so someone has figured it out.

KeepingAwake said...

I still the think the 'big clue we missed' in the Pilot is the white tennis show hanging on a piece of bamboo near Jack. I didn't think this until the Mobisode "And So It Begins" was released, but then it made sense. Christian always wore those shoes, white tennis shoes, in all of his Island appearances for the first few years of the show along with that blue suit.

Still not sure what it means--never got around to writing up a theory on it. But my hunch is the white tennis shoe is the clue we missed.

Ali Bags said...

I was thinking exactly the same thing about the white tennis shoe when I couldn't sleep last night. Maybe Christian was buried with no shoes and when he was 'resurrected' on the island he needed some footwear! Does this mean That Christian Shepherd is more than a ghost, as ghosts wouldn't be in need of footwear?

I was also thinking last night that Aaron might be Jacob which would explain why Christian and Claire are happy to hang out in the cabin.

Also.....if Richard Alpert is timeless or immortal or whatever why does he remain the particular age that he is? I've always wondered this about immortality - why do 'immortals' grow to a certain age (usually their thirties) and then stay at that age? Not that I can think of many examples of immortals - maybe I'm thinking of Greek Gods or something. Didn't get much sleep last night. Lol!

Benny said...

I know that Christian and Kate's horse are classified as undead (though not quite zombies)...

As for the ageless, I would think that immortality may also affect growth to some degree. It think that the body growth rate decreases with time: that being childhood is the same as mortals but adulthood is slower and old age is even slower.

Nikki Stafford said...

KeepingAwake: I've always thought it was the white tennis shoe, too, especially after that last mobisode. If that was the key to Christian (the man who's always in those shoes!) then I think that's the thing. I remember it being one of the very first things I ever noticed on the show... that single tennis shoe in the tree.

Ali Bags: Sounds like you sleep the same way I do the night after a show!! :)

Aaron as Jacob... wow, that would make a lot of sense! I like that a lot.

I've often wondered that about immortality, too. Then again, while my daughter is watching the cartoon Rolie Polie Olie, about this little family of robots, I've never been able to figure out why there's a baby robot and a grandpa robot. How the hell do they age?? ;)

ANYWAY... I guess, in the end, it would be really weird to see a worldly baby walking around. Heehee... Have you ever seen The Tin Drum? It's been eons since I saw or read it, but if I recall, the kid is trapped at the age of 8 or 9 or something and his mind ages, but his body doesn't. There are some VERY disturbing scenes, as a result...

So I'm happy Richard is the age he is. :) But I totally understand the question.

KeepingAwake said...

I honestly didn't think of the white shoe until I saw the mobisode, so kudos to those who siezed upon it prior to that!

It does sort of set up the idea that the Island is capable of resurrecting people, which would seem to be important now that Locke's body is to be returned to the Island and Ben is dodging questions from Jack regarding whether Locke is truly dead.

And yeah, Darlton have said that Aaron is far more important than we ever thought, way back in interviews they gave in the first or second season, so I like the idea that Aaron could be Jacob!

And now that time travel has been explicitly added to the show rather than just hinted at, it confirms the time travel/time loop ideas that were generated way back when we found Adam & Eve and lends credence to the idea that they may be of the Lostaways.

Head asplodes!

Ali Bags said...

Nikki - yes, I have seen the Tin Drum - many aeons ago but it still sticks in my head the same way as 'Don't Look Now'

@Benny - I like the idea that Richard ages, just really really slowly. I guess, Richard Alpert wouldn't be so hot if he was a freaky eye liner wearing baby. Or is it just me that finds him kinda sexy?

Benny said...

Nor if he was a really really old eye liner wearing immortal.

I wouldn't say that it makes him sexy, but I'll do admits that he can pull it off quite well!

YolandaAsh said...

While we are talking about eyeliner... seems like Nestor gets this a lot: http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2009/01/richard-alpert.html I found the timing of this particularly funny since my roommate and I were just discussing this last Wednesday. Looks like she won the debate ;)

Ali Bags said...

I can't stop thinking about Richard's 'immortality' (it's a displacement activity to avoid exam marking)

Have just read through all the theories here: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Richard_Alpert/Theories

and none of them seem to make sense. I'm desperately hoping that no one has come close to the truth yet!

Ali Bags said...

Me again - I've just watched 'Jughead' again and it has occurred to me that the scene at Theresa's house is very Dickensian. Her sister refers to her 'benefactor' and if you look at a screen cap of Theresa in bed she could almost be a Dickensian Heroine wasting away from consumption. Is this the writers deliberately reminding is of Desmond's favourite author?

Nikki Stafford said...

Re: Richard in eyeliner... LOLZ!!! I thought EXACTLY the same thing, and was going to put that in my Any Questions section: "Was Richard wearing eyeliner or are Nestor Carbonells eyelids usually that dark?

And, um... yeah, I'm starting to think Alpert is kinda hot, too. It's why I insisted on a pic of him in the season 4 book. ;)

Wendy said...

Some thoughts on Lost Ep 3

Thanks for your wonderful wrap up, Nikki. And I've enjoyed reading all the comments. Lots of food for thought!

After having just watched the episode again I guess I am ready to believe that Ellie is Eloise (and thus Mrs. Hawking) but still not sure I believe she is Daniel's mother.

The clues point to Daniel being connected to Mrs. Hawking (Eloise the rat) but I don't see her and Widmore as a couple. There is a clear animosity between Other Ellie and Other Widmore.

Isn't Charlotte the one looking for her parents whom she believes were born on the Island (do I have that right?), so perhaps she is Widmore's daughter and she and Penny were switched at birth (!)
8~)

I guess I don't "want" Charles Widmore to be Daniel's father! I believe he funds Daniel's research for non-parental reasons.

So since Widmore was once an Other (born an Other?), I wonder how did he get off the island? Due to Ben? Via his own or Ben's (or someone's)
use of the FDW? Does he leave via submarine, then once off, cannot return? Questions upon questions!

We know he has been relentlessly pursuing a way back to the island, (Miles says for 20 years, so that would be since roughly 1995 - shortly before Desmond met Daniel at Oxford)

Where was Charles Widmore and what was he doing between 1954 and 1995?Was he present during the Dharma use of the island? (These are all meant as rhetorical, unless someone has answers I've missed. And I apologize if these are redundant - I have not read your books, Nikki.)

I am impressed with how "bad" Widmore seems at this early age. Arrogant, brutal and seemingly not well-liked by his comrades. Which brings me to a thought I've had for a long while, how can Penny be his daughter? Makes me wonder whether he "snatched her as a newborn from a crazy woman" like Ben did Alex.

Who is Penny's mother?

Also, just as it seems to Theresa's sister that Daniel is "bad" for leaving her this way, it also appears to Theresa's sister
that Widmore is "good" for keeping her alive, contrary to what we know of the two. And contrary to what Desmond knows, too. His poor, handsome head must be spinning, too.

Oh, and another thing - at the end of Episode 2 when we see Mrs. Hawking and her pendulum and old-timey computers, does it look to anyone like she's inside a submarine? There's a spiral staircase like the one Juliet climbed upon reaching the Island. Of course, the next shot is inside the church-like place with the candles and Ben but...?

Finally, in that same scene, I don't get much love between Mrs. Hawking and Ben. She may be helping
him, but she doesn't seem "in league" with him, like the butcher shop woman. Perhaps her greater motivation is to help Desmond, or the Lostaways or...perhaps she's just saving the world?

Daniel went to the states after Theresa got sick. To see his mother in LA? To recover from a nervous breakdown? Does he cry at the TV news of Oceanic 815 because he knows Charlotte is going to die there? We don't see the face of the person who notices him crying. Who is that going to turn out to be? Hmmmmm.

Can't wait till Wednesday!

Benny said...

@Wendy,
A lot of unanswerable questions. Let me just give comments to two statements.

First just a correction. 2005 less 20 years would be 1985, not 1995. It might change a few things in your comment. But note that Widmore has been funding Dan's research for 10 years. That would be 1995, just before Dan meets Desmond.

As for the submarine-church, some other blogs/sites/reviews/whatnots have pointed to a rarely mentioned off-island DHARMA station; this could explain the old-timey computer.

Benny said...

While awaiting this week's episode, here's a note:

5x04: The Little Prince
Translation of a french children's book called Le petit prince

From aceshowbiz.com: On other "Lost" news, executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse recently sat down with Dos Santos for a True/False question regarding the show. And the 'true' cases go to "We'll find out what Sawyer told Kate in the first half of the season", "There's some kind of romantic tension between Sawyer and Juliet" and "Mrs. Hawking is related to someone we already know".

sauget.diblosio said...

i haven't read through all the messages, but did anyone notice the flash behind faraday?

in the scene with faraday and ellie at the bomb site, about a minute before sawyer comes out of the jungle, there is a small flash (so small that it may be visible only in hd) in the jungle on tha mountainside just over faraday's left shoulder. and in the shot of ellie a second later she looks off in the direction of the flash. it's very subtle, but it's definitely there.

reminds me of the signal ben used when he, hurley and locke were approaching the orchid.

very strange indeed!

Benny said...

I see it too, but it could simply be explained by a glitch or something up in the hills during shooting. There was something similar in season 1 or two where we saw someone walking in the background and it turned out to be a climber who got caught in the shot.

When Ellie changes her line of sight, I think she's more likely looking at the bomb since it's exactly when Dan points to it and says ".. right next to, what do you call this, a hydrogen bomb..."

The flash is definitely there, but from frame analysis, it's a line that would have to be of significant length. We may have to wait for confirmation.

redeem147 said...

Unless Penny and Desmond are married (were they wearing rings?) the baby's last name would be Widmore, unless they chose to name him otherwise. Does the little guy even have a birth certificate?

Nikki Stafford said...

redeem: We see them wearing wedding rings when Desmond wakes up with the new memory of Daniel. But even if they weren't, I have some friends who aren't married but have children, and the children have the father's name.

Benny: Le petit prince is required reading for all Canadians in French courses (and is one of my all-time favourite books) so I already had that prepared to talk about! :)

Benny said...

Nikki: It wasn't required reading in my French classes. Maybe it's just required in French classes for English-Canadians? I still read it nonetheless!

I'm actually excited to see any similarities between the book and the episode, though I might have to brush up!

Nikki Stafford said...

Benny: Sorry, that's what I meant, that in French classes in English-Canada you take it in high school. I love that book. You didn't have to do it in Quebec? I loved going to Paris because they had Petit Prince stuff everywhere. I bought a little Prince and renard and they sit next to my bed. :)

Benny said...

Sadly for many young children in Quebec, they don't get to it until later in life. It's one book that the education system probably thought was in everyone home library already.
Even in my case, I had not read it until some time in secondary school, though many of my schoolmates had.

I really think it can be a fun adventure story for young children to read, and it can put on new new clothes with every new read later in life.

Blam said...

I liked Le Petit Prince when I read it, but our French teacher quickly ruined it for those of us who didn't want to über-over-interpret it. (I'm outside Philadelphia, not in Canada... well, okay, Canada is outside Philadelphia, but I'm much closer to Philadelphia than Canada.)

Maybe the island was originally his asteroid?

Hisham said...

I guess we also now know where the US military knife Ana Lucia and Goodwin were talking about in "The Other 48 Days" came from.

Anonymous said...

re: aaron's dad

just a guess, but thomas came from the island -- super sperm count vs. birth control pills. still, bc pills are 99.9 percent effective against ovulation, without human error or taking antibiotics. if claire was telling the truth, she's either duped/preg by thomas -- or aaron is jacob, or jacob's son. thomas does look like ben (but then radinsky looks like#s guy in santa rosa, and darlton said they weren't same people) -- but could also be Widmore's son.

Benny said...

@Anon: Just curious. What's the logic leading you to conclude Thomas is from the island?