Tuesday, May 26, 2009

Did Ajira Go Back in Time?

There's been some talk about the timing of the Ajira flight. (I'd planned on posting this tomorrow so I can stay on track with my writing but I can see you're already jumping into it on the Jacob thread, so I thought I'd post this one so you could move the discussion here.) Apparently in some podcast Darlton have said the flight lands on the beach in 2007 (and y'all know what I think of getting our canonical information from podcasts... ahem). Because most people agree they travelled in 2008, that means they must have gone back in time.

First, there's no evidence on the show that there was any sort of time jump. Yet. Secondly, I don't think we have an exact date of when they left LA. I always thought it was around December 2007 that they left. Jack's breakdown begins in late August 2007, and he's in full-on crazytown mode just a few months later. Locke begins visiting them in the fall, I think (that's what I suggested when I wrote out the flashforward timeline in my season 4 book), which would explain the jackets they're wearing when he sees Walt. So there's no reason they couldn't have boarded a plane in December and that would mean everything happens in 2007, is there? Other than the fact there are no Christmas decorations out. In which case, maybe November? Hm.

The only evidence that something is different on the island to me is New Otherton. When Sun goes there, she finds the Processing Center sign still hanging, and the doors are adorned with the DI symbols. The rec room has the annual DI recruiting photos on the walls, which we'd never seen before. I think this suggests that there was a break in the timeline, and things are now different than they were before. The Others never inhabited these barracks, or it would look like New Otherton, and not an abandoned Dharmaville. I think something's up with that scene.

48 comments:

Susan said...

Nikki: "I think this suggests that there was a break in the timeline, and things are now different than they were before. The Others never inhabited these barracks, or it would look like New Otherton, and not an abandoned Dharmaville. I think something's up with that scene."

My theory on this is that, instead of a break in the timeline, it's one of the unfortunate continuity errors we seem to be getting lately. I'm still hoping these kinds of errors will be resolved by the end of the show.

Robbie said...

Just so you know, there is evidence on the show that they time traveled. It went from night time to day time in a second, so they had to time travel a LITTLE.

Anyways I'll quote lostpedia:
"The recap clarifies that the on-Island events in the present are happening in 2007. "

They are talkinga bout LOST: The story of the oceanic 6 (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lost:_The_Story_of_the_Oceanic_6)

LotteryTicket said...

The way that I see this is that they gave us 1977 for the Dharma Initiative and then screened "Thirty Years Later" to scenes on Hydra Island (if I'm not mistaken). So, 2007. Also, Desmond's scenes in Oxford show trees in fall color. Lostpedia has contradictory dates, leaving January 2008, landing on Hydra 2007.

However, as discussed here and on other blogs, the Processing Center scene with Frank, Sun and Christian 'appears' different. Smokey watches Frank and Sun on the dock. My understanding is that recruits were brought to Dharmaville via van. Jack is asked by P. Chang the name of his driver. So, I was quite surprised to see Sun and Frank arrive at the Processing Center on foot, like it was just within a few minutes walk. Likewise, with Ben and Locke.

Then in the Incident, Sun, Hurley and Miles meet on a hill which overlooks the sub. They use binoculars to see the evacuation. I was thinking that Dharmaville/New Otherton was in the interior of the island, but now it appears to be very close to a bay or cove.

So did Ben just leave the Processing Center intact after the Purge? Maybe this group of buildings is between the dock and Dharmaville/New Otherton and the Others just were forbidden from using these buildings?

Susan: Agreed. I think that they were trying to mislead us into thinking that events were different for effect.

Robbie said...

I forgot to mention the recap wasn't like the lost enhanced episodes, they would show a scene then Damon and Carlton would explain it, so when Ajira went from day to night they said they had time travelled to 2007.

Blam said...

The "Jacob's Touch" post is up to 50 comments in 10 hours, Nikki, nearly 2 weeks since the season finale, so good idea here.

My take is that since...
(1) we know there's a time-distortion effect around the Island (Daniel's missile experiment; the freighter doc being dead and not dead, etc.),
(2) this effect seems to be variable, and
(3) we saw the plane go from night before the flash that time-transported select passengers to daytime as it crashed,
... it's possible that even if sussing out dates proves that Ajira 316 left in 2008 and crashed in 2007 this may be due to no more time-traveling than would occur by breaching the Island's time-distortion field.

Until or unless there's more explicit confirmation from the producers, or at least real indication that we should wonder about this, I'm going to assume that this explanation also holds for Jacob venturing off the Island to visit Hurley before the flight, despite finding the suggestion that the visit proves Jacob survives his stabbing intriguing.

Blam said...


Robbie: I forgot to mention the recap wasn't like the lost enhanced episodes, they would show a scene then Damon and Carlton would explain it, so when Ajira went from day to night they said they had time travelled to 2007.

Huh. I don't remember that from the recap, and other stuff that seemed like news to me really stood out. Not that it wasn't there or that you're making it up. Did they really say that the flight went from 2008 to 2007, as if it hinted at a larger phenomenon than the weird bubble around the Island?

dena said...

Because Ben says to Sun that this was his house and Alex's room when he finds her there, plus the game in place on table (even though we all know it was overturned during the shoot out) and Ben goes to summon the Monster from this house. Plus Ben's decor through out house I have to think we might believe it is sometime shortly after the freighter folks had the fight there in which they killed Alex. So three years prior to the Ajira flight?
But why the processing sign and the boarded up windows etc. upon Sun, Frank, Ben and Locks arrival?
Maybe this is actually an alternate reality.
Which makes me wonder why the statue holding two anks?
Perhaps they represent alternate realities or eternities.
Or like said unfortunate continuity error. Darn, I sure hope not.
Dena

Blam said...


LotteryTicket: Smokey watches Frank and Sun on the dock. My understanding is that recruits were brought to Dharmaville via van. Jack is asked by P. Chang the name of his driver. So, I was quite surprised to see Sun and Frank arrive at the Processing Center on foot, like it was just within a few minutes walk.

I could very easily be wrong, but my memory is that everyone went on foot to the dock back in the episode where Locke blew up the submarine before it was scheduled to take Jack home.

Batcabbage said...

Re: what's up with the dilapidated Dharmaville?

For a theory on what could be up with New Otherton looking like a downtrodden and deserted Dharmaville, check out Benny's blog and his post on the Moebius History. It's a little complicated, but I think it's a great explanation: abandoned Dharmaville is from Timeline B, created after the Timeline B incident, the H-bomb, not the electro-mag incident (which was from Timeline A). It doesn't actually say that specifically on Benny's blog, but it's what I drew from Benny's responses in the comments, applied to my own theories regarding the Moebius hoopla. Mostly it's Benny's excellent theories. :)

Benny's Moebius post: http://theoreticalisland.blogspot.com/2009/05/moebius-history.html

Robbie said...

@Blam you might be thinking of the wrong recap. I'm not talking about the one before the finale, it is the one before the 100th episode. It aired April 22, so over a month ago =)

Benny said...

Nikki, Jeremy Bentham's passport issue date was December 12, 2007 (with an expiry year of 2017 and birth date of 15 FEB 1948).
In the barracks, you can also see the risk game. There are slight inconsistencies, which could only be the result of hints.

@Robbie: And in the recap before the finale, Carleton says:

"They land in the island present."So the statement could made to interpretation as to what does 'island present' mean.

There have been instances of time distortion around the island, so it's not far fetched to believe there are a few days (a week) differences between the two 'presents'.

Benny said...

@Robbie/Blam: I just re-watched the sequence in "The Story of the Oceanic 6", which was narrated by Nestor Carbonell (as opposed to "Journey In Time" which was narrated by Micheal Emerson and presented with interview segments of Damon and Carleton).

When the Ajira flight crosses the barrier, there is no mention of traveling. Only after it crashes can you hear Mr. Carbonell's voice saying:

Nestor: "The Oceanic 6 made it back to the island -- but in two very different time periods; with one group in 2007... and the other, in 1977."

And as I said in my previous comment, in "Journey In Time" Damon and Carleton make no mention of 'time traveling in 2007' as you alluded. The sequence from when the planes starts shaking is as follows:

Carleton: "Sure enough, they're struck with turbulence. [Plane starts shaking] They find themselves flashing from night to day, and it's all Frank Lapidus can do to safely land this airplane."
[Frank opens the cockpit door]Carleton: "They land on the island but four of them have disappeared. There's no Jack, there's no Kate, there's no Hurley and there's no Sayid."

[Frank: Where did they go?
Ben: They're gone!
Frank: Gone where?
Ben: How would I know?]
Carleton: "So the plane lands on the island, in the island present but, these four characters appear on the island thirty years earlier."

[1977 lagoon scene]

Careton: "Eloise Hawking has said that you have to recreate the circumstances of 815 exactly, they were not able to do that."

Damon: "Which is what triggers some of them to move to 1977."


In fact, there is never any mention of '2007' by Damon and Carleton. The only place it appears in reference to the island present is by Nestor in the narration. Damon and Carleton only refer to it as 'island present'.


-------
On Dharmaville, here's the segment when Sun goes to the main island to find Jin:
Carleton: "She goes back to Dharmaville. Now it's all dusty and overgrown.

Blam said...


I didn't think I'd have missed what you've pretty well shown wasn't communicated, Benny. Thanks.

Damon: "Which is what triggers some of them to move to 1977."

Now that exchange I remember, because it seemed not only to establish something I didn't think we were supposed to be sure about -- the common clip-show complaint -- but it was even more confusing in the light of the finale that aired next, since that statement seems absolute enough to suggest that the flash-travel of those characters was purely due to the inexact replication of pattern and not due to Jacob or the Island's desire to have them there.

humanebean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
humanebean said...

Thanks for recapping the clip show, Benny - I missed it the first time around while traveling and hadn't thought to catch it online as yet.

I think that we have gotten caught up lumping all time-related distortions together as "time traveling". Clearly we saw Daniel's rocket experiment undergo time distortion (30 minutes, I believe) and the freighter Doctor's body experienced the same, washing ashore some short time before he was killed on the ship (from our perspective as viewers).

So, it's reasonable to assume that this time distortion varies from minutes to days (perhaps longer) as one exits/enters the Island's spacetime. This is distinct from the time traveling or flashing that our Lostaways experience, jumping ahead/back months or years. My thought is that Ajira 316 may have experienced this time distortion when entering the Island spacetime, and perhaps exaggerated by whatever process caused Jack, Kate, et. al. to time travel back to 1977.

Assuming that there is more here than just continuity errors (wishful thinking, possibly), I don't believe that Ajira traveled in time but rather was displaced slightly by the distortion. The condition of the pier-side Dharma Processing Center is consistent with the passage of time from when the O6 were rescued three years earlier. No, this doesn't explain everything - such as why the DI recruit photos would still be on the wall - but we saw in the opening scenes of "Tale of Two Cities" that New Otherton was in fact situated further inland.

There have definitely been times where the editing of scenes has implied that New Otherton was closer to the pier but no proof offered that would contradict the visual we were given in "Two Cities". All that being said, it's hard to ignore the fact that the O6 were rescued in January 2005 and that Locke's passport was issued December 2007. All of this points to an early 2008 return to the Island, give or take some time as a result of the time distortion.

I admit, it's hard to argue with the 'fast and loose' comments of the clip shows (if Michael Emerson or Nestor Carbonell utters the words, I'm IN) but I feel that this whole "thirty years earlier/later" business is not materially impacted by a few months difference. Sooooo .... put me in the Ajira did NOT "go back in time" camp. The O6'rs aboard the plane went back in time ... but the plane itself just ... sort of skidded in time.

Benny said...

@HB: That's pretty much how I feel about it as well. I think there would have been a few visual cues to suggest Ajira had traveled back in time rather than skidded.

Blam said...


Benny: @HB: That's pretty much how I feel about it as well

So the three of us are on the same page. How many Lost viewers does it take for a quorum?

Nikki Stafford said...

humanebean: I agree; I think the night to day discrepancy is the same as throughout season 4, when they travel from the island to the freighter and find a few hours or a day of discrepancy. There's definitely a distortion in time, probably from passing through a slight wormhole, as we discussed at the time, but they're not leaping forward and backward by years.

Benny: Jeremy Bentham's passport issue date was December 12, 2007 (with an expiry year of 2017 and birth date of 15 FEB 1948).
In the barracks, you can also see the risk game. There are slight inconsistencies, which could only be the result of hints.


These are really good points, Benny, but I'm wary of looking at props. The obituary Jack looks at was dated April 5, 2007, even though it's from fall 2007. And his passport has a 10-year expiry on it, even though at the time I said Canadian passports only have five years on them, and that has never changed. So I think you make a really good point, and that date might have been the intention of the writers (meaning they left in early 2008, because it probably took a month to see everyone).

Also, someone above mentioned that Lostpedia has Locke's death happening a month after he meets Jack, but I'm still convinced it happens within a day or two of seeing him, based on the fresh car accident scratches still all over his head. That's one of the big mysteries of season 5 to me -- why did Locke die a month or more before the obit went into the paper? Jack bought his first plane ticket the day Ben kills Locke, but we know from the S3 finale that he'd been flying planes for months. I'm still wondering if maybe Locke didn't DIE die, and that's how the body never decomposes. Hm. Still trying to mull through that one. It's way too big to have been a simple continuity error.

dan said...

ok, I must have posted this in the wrong thread so forgive me for double posting, but it seems like it belongs here. Someone asked, "is Jacob helping or cursing the losties in the flashbacks?"

"Or did he travel back in time to protect them AFTER their arrival on the island? "
Hmm, this lines up nicely with the theory that Jacob is actively protecting time and only after he dies "in the future" (sorry for that awful wording) can Juliet set off the bomb back in the past. So the variable stopping anyone from changing time was actually Jacob, until he 'died' and was somehow removed as an influence.

Plus this means that Essau's loophole was finding a way to kill Jacob through someone else, an act that maybe Jacob couldn't foresee and prevent with his powers. Maybe Jacob couldn't know that Essau would manipulate time to mislead John Locke and "alter" his death so that Essau could impersonate him and get Ben to kill Jacob (although, based on athe actors performance, Jacob was not surprised and maybe was waiting for this). Perhaps Jacob can see anything that Essau does throughout time, so this was a way to avoid being detected by someone who is, essentially, a guardian/god of time.

It reminds me of Watchmen where you have a character that can see any/all of his future experiences, what could you do to stop someone like that? How could you plan something against him that he would never foresee? The answer appears complicated isn't once you understand the reason for confusion.

Nikki Stafford said...

Oops, I meant to say even though it's from as early as fall 2007, as late as spring 2008, depending on when Locke actually died, which is also up in the air. :)

Benny said...

Nikki may know!

Or maybe we should dissect it to viewers with no hard party line on the subject. In which case we may be able to call it right here right now.

dan said...

Sorry for going on, but it just occured to me that if Jacob is the "free will" representative, maybe he is trying to prevent free will as a means to prove himself wrong. I'm thinking of the Dune sci-fi books where a supreme leader decides to hold back humanity for centuries, banning travel (except on foot)and any freedom. When he dies, the human race spreads like fire across the galaxies and becomes so diverse that it an never be made extinct. Is Jacob trying to stop free will through time so that when he is removed, free will will go gangbusters on Esseau's posterior?

humanebean said...

This is slightly off-topic, but have you guys seen the recent "Comics on Comics" podcast that Damon took part in? One of the more revealing and insightful discussions of the show's status heading into the last season. No spoilers, no clunky reveals ... just a fun and fruitful conversation about LOST and it's place in the entertainosphere. (yes, I made that up)

http://comicsoncomics.podbean.com/

Benny said...

By the way, my previous post was in response to Blam.

@Nikki: Yes, the 10 years thing is a dead-on prop error. And that they showed the date in a close-up (as opposed to the newspaper) may very well be, as you said, intentional.

As for the lag between the visit with Jack and his death, I'm willing to say a week. Most of the speculation is based off Jack's beard I think. So either Jack can grow one like a Canadian, or it's an inconsistency.

One I would chalk to its intended effect on the viewers during season 3's finale. It certainly has a bigger impact than the dirty face that seem to say "I've been too busy to actually shave." The thick-on says, "I don't care about anything anymore."


Another clue as to the time (which you partially alluded to earlier, and I mentioned as well) is the meeting with Walt in New York. By the jackets it looks chilly (your mark), but the green trees may tell more than just 'prop'!

Teebore said...

That's one of the big mysteries of season 5 to me -- why did Locke die a month or more before the obit went into the paper? Jack bought his first plane ticket the day Ben kills Locke, but we know from the S3 finale that he'd been flying planes for months.You know Nikki, those kinds of nagging questions and apparent inconsistencies are keeping me from really declaring my love for the Bentham episode in the way many others have.

I really WANT to love that episode, but I really can't get over the apparent contradictions between it and what was established in previous episodes about the Bentham timeline. It really frustrates me, both that I can't look past it, and that it's an issue in the first place.

Anyways, um, back on topic...

Count me in the camp that considers Flight 316 as skidding through time, not traveling in it. I think the "30 years later" time stamp was simply used for the sake of elegance, and any discrepancy between when the flight left and that can be chalked up to the island's time distorting bubble.

Benny said...

@Teebore: Jack bought his Sydney ticket on the day Locke died. He could have flown for weeks/months before that but not with Sydney as the destination.

Maybe he'd done so since he talked to Hurley or saw Christian.

Maybe I'm just trying to fit it together and sell myself on it.

Teebore said...

Maybe I'm just trying to fit it together and sell myself on it.


Heh, yeah, I've read all kinds of explanations for how it COULD work, how all the pieces could fit together, and if nothing more is said, on the show, then those explanations will work and the whole tapestry of the show won't unravel for me.

But still, I wish there wasn't a NEED for US to make it all fit together like that: I wish all the pieces we've seen on the show fit together themselves.

Benny said...

@Teebore: But still, I wish there wasn't a NEED for US to make it all fit together like that: I wish all the pieces we've seen on the show fit together themselves.

I hear that. But from what the writers have said, they don't want to elaborate on every detail. They let some of it be part of the viewers interpretation.

It certainly doesn't change the tapestry of the show itself, only how some people may call a see a certain shade of red or blue.

Kinda like the whole house debacle. If it's not explained, then viewers will have different interpretations of what Sawyers intentions were!

Batcabbage said...

@Benny/Teebore: But still, I wish there wasn't a NEED for US to make it all fit together like that: I wish all the pieces we've seen on the show fit together themselves.

I hear that. But from what the writers have said, they don't want to elaborate on every detail. They let some of it be part of the viewers interpretation.
My gf and I were talking about this very thing in relation to the movie Gosford Park last night. There's a character played by Derek Jacobi that apparently has a secret, and it's never discussed, and you never find out what it is. I love that. I love it about Lost as well. I mean, just look how much discussion and interaction the 'did Ajira go back in time' question has generated. Not to mention the anticipation (just two weeks after the finale) it's generated for Season 6, where we may get all the answers (I'm kinda hoping they leave some of the mysteries up in the air).

Personally, I'm of the 'skidded' rather than 'travelled' persuasion. Is it a quorum yet?

ashlie said...

I also agree with the "skidding" as opposed to "jumping" (ah the subtleties of LOST...) and I'm totally on board with the frustration of the timeline when Locke/Bentham dies. I definitely got the impression that he died very soon after seeing Jack, and the implication from Ben was that Jack had only just booked his first plane ticket (as opposed to the slight chance that he had been flying secretly before, just to play Devil's Advocate). I really hope this issue gets resolved and doesn't just hang there nagging and nagging...

Nikki Stafford said...

Ashlie et al: I'm confident that the writers will fill in that blank. You don't leave a dead body on ice for 2 months with no explanation. :) The Bentham episode is really awesome; I watched it again and it's as amazing the 4th time as it was the first. Yes, my nitpick section is HUGE in the episode guide for that one, bigger than in any other:
-Jack's beard has a month or two left to grow when he meets Locke
-Locke's cuts are fresh when he writes the suicide note, so he's just out of the hospital
-Jack has just booked his ticket to Sydney, and Ben makes it sound like the first. And regardless of what Ben says, if Locke's cuts are fresh, then the Jeard just a few days ago shows us it's still far away from the obit point
-I have a real problem with the whole "Bentham" thing and how everyone insisted in "There's No Place Like Home" that they had to call him that, when there's no mention of it in the Bentham episode that anyone had to call him that. It was all a tool used to build suspense, with no actual merit in the story. And all the things that people later say Locke said to them, he didn't. At least, not in the scenes we saw.

So yes, the time discrepancy is just wrong. But the Bentham thing annoys me more, because something tells me that we'll get an explanation for the time discrepancy, where we won't for Bentham. It'll just be nothing more than a build-up to their big BA-BUM reveal in the S4 finale.

And if you think about it, what better way to have Locke and Jack have their showdown than in the hospital, with Locke spouting that it's destiny that he's there and Jack freaking out. We have to have Jack be the non-believer, AND he has to still be working in the hospital, both things that were no longer the case when he finally gets on that plane. So there's a reason they had to make the beard look like it's in its early stages. But it's just too, too big an error to have Locke be dead for 2 months with no explanation. I mean, why does Ben leave him there? Why not take the corpse with him? Who wrote the obit? Was it Ben? Again, if he went to that trouble, why let the corpse out of his sight?

Something bigger happened in that time, I'm convinced of it, and I really hope S6 will show us what happened. And I'll be happy, if for no other reason than Teebore can finally enjoy the Bentham episode. :)

Robbie said...

@blam/benny hmm I guess my memory is fuzzy/I believe lostpedia too much lol

Teebore said...

...if for no other reason than Teebore can finally enjoy the Bentham episode. :)

Thanks Nikki! Though to be fair, I do enjoy the episode, I just don't LOVE it. And I really want to love it...

Batcabbage said...

I've just remembered why I LOVE the Bentham episode: There's a direct reference to Y: The Last Man. BKV!!! Praise the man, people. He cures what ails ya. (What? Yes, I have had a couple of beers. It's late in Oz!)

Benny said...

@Batcabbage: wasn't that 316? Or is there another reference I missed?

Batcabbage said...

@Benny: There might have been one in 316 (I can't put my finger on it right now), but the one I'm referring to is the line that Abbaddon says: "I get people where they need to be, Mr Locke" or something to that effect. I think he says it just before he dies. It's the raison d'etre of the Culper Ring and Agent 355 in Y. What's the reference in 316, if you don't mind me asking?

Benny said...

Ah yes! Though I'm pretty sure "Y" is not the only place it's been uttered (but it's likely why it ended up in Lost: BKV). I thought you were referencing Hurley's comic book!

Carry-on!

Batcabbage said...

@Benny: Ah! Right, now I'm with you. If I'm not mistaken, Hurley's comic in 316 was the third volume of Y, "One Small Step". It's a damn good one. No significance there, I just like to reference BKV whenever I can. BKV!!!

And yes, I'm sure it's not the only place it's been uttered, but it's one of the good ones! BKV!!! (just for good measure)

Hisham said...

Can's just we say they screwed up?
I mean, this season, of them all, was full of continuity errors (check Lostpedia)and they clearly changed things things for dramatic purposes a la "The Curious Case of Jeremy Bentham."
We haven't seen the hatch door that fell from the sky on the beach during all season 3 and season 4, and yet it was there when Not-Locke and the Others arrived at the old camp.
Sun finding Charlie's ring was one of my favorite moments of the finale, especially with the music, but, again, we haven't seen Aaron's cradle during season 4 at all. In fact, if you go back and watch "Greatest Hits," you'll find that Charlie put the ring "on" some white sheet, not "within" a blue one.

Blam said...


Way OT:

Benny: [to BC] I thought you were referencing Hurley's comic book!

And I'd just like to say, with all respect to the original: Doesn't Y: El Ultimo Hombre sound like a very different but totally kick-ass story?

clouse said...

Random thought.....because i have been rewatching...almost done with season 2. A care package is dropped on the beach with dharma foodstuffs.....it has a parachute attatched....so it WAS dropped. But how? From where? Did they use the lighthouse to pick a spot in which an air route could FLY over the island? This is buggin me.

clouse said...

It does not appear to me that the Ajira flight went back in time. Instead it appears more like an alternate timeline.....in direct contradiction of the "whatever happened happens" perhaps. Dharmaville does not appear to have become NewOtherton. Perhaps this would lead people to beleive that Ajira landed after the purge and before the others moved in.....however the presense of the runway....landing strip which had begun with the help of kate and sawyer would lead us to beleive that the Ajira flight lands...in the future?

Blam said...


clouse: I've been mystified by the Dharma food drops as well. That's a big "does not compute" for me that gets brought up now and again. As for the possible alternate timeline, Benny has posited this here and in further detail on his own blog, but folks seem to be split.

Benny said...

I was reading Chapter 9 in Philip K. Dick's VALIS and found some odd similarities to Lost that take a significantly different meaning in light of season 5.

The begins with Fat's project to find the Savior. But the core of it surrounds Fat, Phil and Kevin watching the movie titled VALIS and commenting on it.

I was re-reading our dear Nikki's review and analysis of it in the Season 4 Guide and, though it is complete and thorough (you do a good job on those Nikki), there is significantly more to talk about at this point.

I will do a full post tomorrow on my blog, but here is a sneek peak:

-Important years: 1974, 1977;
-Time dysfunction/superimposition;
-A supernatural god-like being;
-Someone taking over a body;
-The subtleties of re-watching a movie (or show).

There are a few more points I will bring up tomorrow, but it seems that when VALIS appeared on the screen, it less of a frozen moment in the show and more of a foreshadowing of themes to come.

While waiting, you can always read Nikki's article in the Season 4 Guide and find more information on the movie within the book.

Synchromystic Librarian said...

when Bed suprised Jack at the funeral home with Locke in the casket:

BEN: Hello, Jack. Sorry. Didn't mean to scare you. Did he tell you that I was off the island?

JACK: Yes, he did.

BEN: When did you speak to him?

JACK: About a month ago.

So if Bentham's passport was dated 12/12/07, then a month later would indeed be in January 2008

Ajira HAD to go back in time for the loophole to work

dog god

Robbie said...

@Benny and @Blam I knew I heard it in a podcast somewhere that they were in 2007, I found it:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast/May_11,_2009

D Medina said...

Hi!, i got a question about the 316... why they can still hearing the numbers transmission before the ajira 316 crashed in 2007? The copilot ask for help by the radio, "mayday", and you can hear, "...8,15,16..."

Didn`t Rousseau changue that transmission in 1988? Any idea of this?

Thanks!

Benny said...

@D Medina: We tried to answer this in detail after the airing but didn't really land on a definite answer. The three basic theories that can easily be assumed are:

1- They hear the transmission from sometime in the past. Remember Hurley and Sayid hearing the orchestra on the radio?

2- They are in an alternate timeline/reality or whatever you want to call it. One where the broadcast was never altered.

3- The past was changed in such a way that Rousseau never had to make a new broadcast.

This may be one of the questions that do not get answered and is left to the imagination. We'll just have to wait until February 2010.