So, this has been circulating the Interwebs since early yesterday evening, and a few people have sent it to me but I'm only getting around to reading it now. The person writing claims to work for Bad Robot and posted this on a Buffalo Bills forum, and it was reposted by DarkUFO. One resourceful Lost fan tracked the person's ID back to other postings on the forum, where apparently he's been referring to working for Bad Robot for a number of years, and people think it may be Greg Ernstrom, a production assistant on Cloverfield and Star Trek. So... it might be authentic. But all I can do is repost it here and you can decide. Some interesting stuff, that's for sure!!
UPDATE: I'm being told this is probably a fake, and Bad Robot is checking into it. I'll keep you posted.
Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...
First ...
The Island:
It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.
Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.
Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.
Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.
In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...
Now...
Sideways World:
Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.
The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.
It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.
But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.
They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).
A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.
For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.
In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
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63 comments:
Small detail: Penny, Juliet, Bernard, Desmond, etc where not in season 1.
I like a lot of what he is saying but I don't think I buy it. The spelling and grammatical errors, and mis-spelling character names as well, would lead me to believe that this was not a professional writer working on the show.
I want to believe it's true, but I'm not sure...
Whether this is real or not, there is one quote in there that kind of explains why I like the ending...."The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith." Many of the posts I've read by people who didn't like the ending seem to be from people who didn't get enough "answers". Someone said that there wasn't enough Science in it for him. I am a big believer in Faith.... not necessarily as a religious faith...but as Faith in family, friends, values. Perhaps my belief in Faith is what made me love it so much.
This is great. I walked away from the finale feeling incredibly satisfied, and this explanation helps a bit, too.
I especially think it's cool that J.J. Abrams had written that church scene way back after writing the Pilot! That's awesome! He must have loved finally getting to see it put onto the screen.
I wonder if, going into the Pilot, Matthew Fox and John Terry were given a heads up regarding that final pivotal scene in the church's back room.
Hmmmm......... Very, very interesting!
Whether or not this is real, I like it. I would love to have confirmation if the info about the last scene is true. As for J. Maggio's point, I suppose they could have already had those characters planned at that point, even if they weren't included in the first season. Although it is hard to believe that they would have Juliet planned if they didn't have Ben. I guess they could have known they would have a sort of double agent who would join the castaways eventually?
I have little patience for posters who can't spell, use incorrect grammar, and don't bother with spell check. I defriended someone on Facebook today because of all his spelling and grammatical errors. So while this "Bad Robot" person's comments may have been interesting, I have no confidence in him/her as a reliable source.
I admit to being of two minds whether this is really a Bad Robot person or not. The big question..obviously the comment about season 1 people only being in the church ..come on dude..we say Penny and Desmond..OTOH..not exactly tough to write them in..next to no dialogue in that scene.
the spelling and grammar..well writers do have editors for a reason.
What I do find persuasive is the amount of backstory...we all heard how Tolkien for example had reams of stuff on MiddleEarth he never got into the books. I could certainly see it being the same here.
In the end you can't please everybody..had they gone with some sci-fi machine ending...well..you know what the complaining would have been..oh it all a machine ..epic fail...etc...
So I'll have a little "faith" that this isn't some blogger pulling our chain...because a lot of what is in that post kind a fits.
Interesting analysis but I am skeptical because of, as others have pointed out, the spelling errors, especially of some character's names.
Nikki, thanks again for all you've done. It's great to have a place to share ideas on this outstanding show.
I'm not confident that it's a BR person, despite others trying to back it up. As many of you have said, the spelling errors make it really unprofessional. I'm still waiting to hear from someone who just IM'd me that it's probably a fake.
I agree with some of the other posters on here. While I agree with most of that post, I find it hard to believe that someone who has worked so closely on the show would misspell character names. I can forgive the spelling and grammar mistakes, but not the names!
Daniel Dae Kim also posted a link to this write up on his official Facebook page, so it might be real.
I'll say here what I said on darkufo - just true enough to be read and believable, just wrong enough to be debunked as illegitimate. I don't think this is a bad robot person. Too many grammatical errors, and too many errors in logic.
Just because someone works for the production company, doesn't mean they can spell. I know a lot of very competent, intelligent people who can't.
hey all,
long time lurker, first time poster (nikki and the rest of this gang, its community made me break my own little "rule";) )
Anyway, he says Ben was a ploy from the MiB to thwart Jacob's search for candidates amongst the Dharma crew. If so why did Jacob order the Purge (via Richard)? I mean if Jacob knew his plan was compromised with dharma he must have known Ben was a liability, and I doubt he had the foresight to see the role Ben would play with the losties.
as far as the finale, i really liked it, but one point nags me to no end. What exactly is the danger that MiB posed to the rest of the world if he escaped the island, if he could be killed with a gun shot? I have this really nagging feeling Jack DID die for nothing, like Flocke said he was going to. I mean, he could have escaped the cave and Jack could have just replugged the magic cork, or whatever, and he'd still be stuck, problem delayed. I buy that for whatever reason, the light going out and the island destroyed would be bad, I dont need to know why, i can believe it, but I feel we never got a real confirmation of why was it such a big deal for the MiB to escape, other then Isabella and Jacob saying so.
well, that's whats nagging me, and what i think this alleged insiders post fails to address.
Thanks Nikki and all of you. I often talked aloud to my computer screen in dialogue with you all, and more often then not, you people brilliantly debunked my ideas with yours, on the basis they were really really bright ideas ;)
Thanks again, I really enjoy all this
and now, my fist wv (thanks for these too, and the haiku's, btw):
Sauratic: ring of evil quality
I love this! Whether or not it's authentic. I agree 100% that in the conflict of science v. faith, LOST came down on the side of faith. And love. And hope. And all that good stuff that makes life beautiful.
I haven't read all the comments, but I'll second Sean on a lot of spelling errors, especially with common character names.
I doubt that this is authentic. And I'll also admit it resembles some of my own thoughts!
It's one interpretation worth discussing. Some of the stuff is interesting, some I find just not right - but I can't say it's not, but just how I see it.
Well thought-out explanation. However I think the Others were all brought in by Jacob to be his human helpers in portecting the island. He tolerated Dharma's presence on the island until they were getting to close to "The Light" at which time they had to go.
I think Ben was given a "Candidate List" from the very beginning as far as 815 was concerned. Think back to the Season 3 Finale - he had his guys PRETEND to shoot Jin, Sayid & Desmond. He had no reason to. Certainly at that time he'd shown no real compassion towards life. He knew Jacob wanted Sayid and Jin at least kept alive.
Great stuff on "Sideways World".
-Tim Alan
Whether or not this is an authentic report from someone in the know, it is still a really sound explanation of events on the Island/Sideways World. Thanks for sharing.
I've got my theory about the ending posted now at my blog: http://pop-culture-pundit.blogspot.com/2010/05/lost-episode-61718-end.html. Please come over and tell me what you think.
@ brooding gecko: According to both Widmore and Richard, the MIB leaving the Island would result in the end of everything, much like the Island being destroyed. It would seem the MIB, being a physical embodiment of the Island's energy makes him "one" with the Island. So when the Island's power is unplugged, he's mortal, but if Jack just replaced the stone without killing the MIB, then we'd be right back to where this episode began and Jack/Hurley would have to spend their Island Protector days just as Jacob did, worrying the MIB was going to find a way to kill them, and worried he'd find a way to get off Island. He had to be stopped so that no one was constantly trying to end existence as we know it on a daily basis. And in order to kill him (make him mortal), our characters had to flirt with destroying everything by putting the Island at risk. Make sense?
Regarding this "Bad Robot" fellow, he's got a good thinking cap on, but his "insider info" is all based on commonly known info (when Ben was written in, etc.) and some very HUGE assumptions that the Sideways World was part of the plan from day one. From what we know of the LOST writing process straight from Darlton, there's no way they COULD have planned and executed something like the Sideways without a series end date. The only thing Matthew Fox knew about the ending was the shot of his eye closing -- and THIS is most likely what J.J's plan was.
So while anything's possible, I doubt this guy immensely. He's also just a bit too defensive and unprofessional in his manner - something I wouldn't expect from an actual Bad Robot writer.
That said, his ideas are all well thought out. He does seem to have a problem remembering which non-S1 characters were in the church, though. And considering how good at adapting their narrative to circumstance Darlton are, if they'd WANTED Ben in that church - he would have been in that church. Period.
But the one thing that really rubs me the wrong way about his theory is that there's no way The Others were actively trying to kill the Candidates all through the seasons. If they'd wanted that to happen -- they would have done it. They had ample opportunity, and they always behaved only to gather followers, protect the Island, and (in Ben's case) get some free surgery.
The MIB may certainly have been influencing the proceedings at various times, but we at least know for sure that Ben never saw or heard Jacob during his time as leader (that's why he shot then strangled Locke) so he couldn't have been receiving orders from the MIB masquerading as Jacob.
I DO agree with everything he says about the founding of the Others and Jacob's candidate process, and the hope that Dharma COULD actually do good (hence the treaty), et cetera, but all this can be extrapolated from the show as presented so it's hardly insider info.
I give him solid points on his perspective on the show's scope and the importance of the Dharma/Others conflict to the narrative, but I doubt that he has much more knowledge of things than the rest of us who watch the show and listen to Darlton talk about the creative process...
Did a bit of research myself:
Fact: This was written by a guy named Greg Ernstrom.
Fact: He has worked for Bad Robot.
Beyond this he could be offering real information, or conjecture based on knowlege he obtained during his time with Bad Robot... It could be a combination of both.
If you think about it, all he really confirms is that the story had bookends from the start... Which we sort of already know, having watched the finale.
Is is so hard to believe that no matter how many off-shoots may have been developed over the years, that the end game was set from the start?
@SP: and I'll add to that, in a recent (3 weeks?) interview I saw, the writers said themselves the sideways narrative came during the show's run, so definitely not something that was planned right from the start.
So definitely not something that obvious from the get go.
@Anonymous: where did you get your Fact 1 ??
I too am skeptical that this person is from Bad Robot. All the information in his post could be gleaned from other sources. That Ben was only supposed to have a 3-episode story arc? Widely reported in the past. That they had the ending thought out from the beginning? Also widely reported, and this person only cites that “the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away.” That sounds completely plausible, and I’m sure they made up the Sideways world later to make it “all add up” in people’s minds. And his thoughts on Ben not going into the church? That could just be conjecture, as many other folks have had that theory as well. Ditto on this thoughts on the Sideways world.
Also, like J. Maggio says in the first comment: Penny, Desmond, Juliet, etc. were NOT part of the plane crash. And Penny was never on the island at all.
@ Sagacious Penguin,
Adjectified animals make awesome monikers!
Yea, i rationaly get it. it does make sense, but what i feel is that MiB, Jacob's brother, why exactly would he be such a threat? I mean, i know he is, but i never got a sense of the why. the character as played by Titus and O'Quinn never gave me the sense he wanted out to inflict evil, only that he just wanted out, that's why i say maybe jack did die in vain, cause in the end he only saved Kate, Sawyer and Claire. I can understand the idea that him leaving by killing the protector and his candidates would be as detrimental as regaining his "humanity" (read mortality) and destroying the island, but then why leave? He always came across, in Across the Sea, as a curious spirit, a certain wanderlust... not much to see outside the island if he destroys the Source of life, good and evil, etc. While i'm happy with the finale, i feel that by not shedding any light (pun intended) on his and the islands nature, his whole death feels flat. Ok, maybe he was just so obsessed with leaving, he didnt realize just how dangerous uncorking the island would be. But then i can think of at least a dozen scenes i would swap for something more substantial then what we got; for instance, a scene where Jacob would confront him for the first time since he became smokey.
As for Ben, Dharma and the others, I still can't buy that Ben was compromised all along by MiB and Jacob still uses Richard to enlist him to do the purge. Plus, while i loved MiB's long con on Ben and Locke in order to find his loophole, I can't see how he would need such a ruse if he had direct control over Ben. I cant remember, exactly, when Ben summoned smokey to help fight Keamy's goons, was that before or after Alex had died?
I do agree on the science vs faith deal. My favorite scene in the finale, the one that pushed me over and accepted it as a more then fitting end to the series was the look on Jack's face after he had recorked the island and and the light and water came flooding back in. He took the ultimate leap of faith (just as Locke said he should) and it worked.
Also, what was the deal with skelentons at the source, why did so many entered and died there, and only one smokey came out, and how come MiB and Jack get spit out into a stream, and the others get stuck there? I don't mind not being told who built the cork, what is the light, why smokey is smokey, who is crazy mom, in fact i truly apreciate it, it makes the show last longer while i ponder on it. But I wish we had a better grasp of the mechanics, of the rules. It's something without which i'll have trouble trusting Darltons assertion that they always knew what they were doing, and it ultimately, IMO, flaws my experience with the show.
It's entirely possible what he's saying is true. The Dharma stuff wasn't really something that was a burning question for people (or atleast, me) though.
I problem I have with this, and it's not what he said, it's that Keamy and Omar were in the purgatory timeline and they not only died on the island but did alot worse things there than Michael and Ben(since he was turned by MIB). If Michael's on the island forever, Keamy is.
@ Brooding Gecko: You know I can't believe I didn't even NOTICE what our monnikers had in common!
Again, just pulling my thoughts from snippets in the show, I don't think the Man in Black thought for a moment all of existence was going to end when he left the Island or when he destroyed the Island. He called his mom a liar, had studied the light from a scientific viewpoint as a tool for use/power, and told Sawyer (and others) that it was just a damn Island that didn't need protecting. He was the ultimate non-believer in the place, even though he'd been cursed to stay there as a part of its energy - partly BECAUSE of this. It's just like pushing the button in Season 2 -- He doesn't believe protecting the Island does anything, but Jack does, and for the most part (I assume) so do we, the audience. If the show did its job, then it got us (just like Jack) to believe the Island was the uber-important source of the electromagnetic energy that makes up life, death, and time. In stopping the Man In Black, Jack saved not just those who escaped the Island but all of mankind.
On the mechanics of the cave - again just my own thoughts based on the sights: Probably only the center pool smokifies and transports, and most people upon entering die before they can get to the pool. Desmond was immune to it all, so he's good to go. The MIB was not immune, but could not be killed by Jacob's hand and Jacob threw him in there, so his body floats down the river without his being killed, topples to the source and he becomes smokey while his body is transported away from the center (a fate worse than Death like Mother predicted). Jack's a normal dude, but he was already at the center just as the light was coming back on, so he was transported before the thing could reach full smokeyfing power.
That's admittedly filling in blanks with things that make the plot points work. But since all we're given are the plot points, and assuming it "just makes no sense" isn't any fun, there's my best guess!
Just to add, I'm pretty sure the light in the heart of the island represented the purgatory world necessary to cross over and life kind itself in a way because of that.
Destroying the light meant destroying the purgatory world meant destroying what is essentially, or most commonly called, the soul or spirit. Without a soul/spirit, humankind has no reason to be moral or good, thus resulting in the destruction of Earth and humankind itself.
Shelb -- I think there's a Michael in the Sideways world, too. It was just Harold's opinion on Jimmy Kimmel that the reason he wasn't seen at the church in the Sideways was because he was stuck forever on the Island. Just like Ben and others, he either never woke up (most likely) or wasn't ready to move on (like Ben). I DO wish they'd have shown him, but I think that would have made Walt's absence to inexplicable/awkward. Like Ben, having the right relationship with Alex this time 'round, Michael's probably off doing right by Walt this time.
More related but rambling thoughts on the Sideways:
Honestly, I think there's an everyone in the Sideways - it's an entire timeline of its own afterall. It just exists outside of time since it was a course correction of fate's to fix Jack and Faraday's Jughead detonation (which is why the Island can be destroyed in it, but everyone can live on). If a person there is able to "remember," then they're treated to a second chance at life, complete with their memories of their entire real life intact. And when they're ready to "let go" they "move on." Or at least that's what I gather, taking everything we've been told about the world as true. I guess there's a chance Juliet was wrong that "it worked" and Farday was wrong that he "changed" things, but it seems that the arch of Season 5 loses a bit of impact if we toss out those things. Also, if the sideways existed before our characters tried to change the past, it doesn't particularly make sense narratively that anyone else zapped by electromagnetic energy or dying prior to the detonation glimpsed it like Juliet and Desmond. Makes a bit more sense overall if this was the birth of that world, what Christian meant when he said they "created it together." What do you think? Sideways related to surviors attempting to change the past, or just "the way life/death works" in the world of the show LOST?
@Anonymous
The story of LOST had more than just beginning and ending "bookends". The narrative mirroring throughout the seasons has been discussed in detail, here, in Finding LOST, and across other blogs.
Given the consistency of the small details in the final scene -- the location, the shoe, Vincent -- I believe with definite certainty this was planned. However, as I rewatch specific episodes and mobisodes, I am struck by the character interactions, dialogue, and visual cues that match Season 1-3 to Season 4-6. I'm sure we will discuss these at length in future discussions as we deconstruct the show. For me, I was *VERY* concerned that J.J. Abrams, Damon Lindelof, and Carlton Cuse maintain their integrity after stating that the had the ending in mind from the beginning, and that the overall arch of the LOST story was well-known. After watching the show for six seasons and seeing the very satisfying finale, I have *NO DOUBT* that they were indeed telling the truth. Too many coincidences.
Or was it fate? ;-)
@Sagacious Penguin
Michael said straight up to Hugo, he was on the island as another whisper for what he did. Harold just said it again on Kimmel. Those who did people wrong and died on the island, stayed there in limbo. Michael redeemed himself and still remained there, Keamy and Omar got to go to purgatory?
Everyone can argue over who did and didnt deserve to move on, but KEAMY? Atleast Christian ended up being a disciple of Jacob. It seems Keamy didn't put "psychopath" on his resume when Charles hired him.
To be honest not a big problem with me, the big problem with me is those who argue it was ALL purgatory. This Bad Robot explanation is pretty close to what I have been saying to people. I'm in the process of writing my own ideas on both the purgatory and the rest of the finale/series which I'll link to the rest of you, but if this is really Bad Robot, atleast it gives us, the ones who are correct and true, the knowledge to say "Ha Ha!" to the dummies who keep trying to convince us otherwise.
Oh by the way, fellow Nik @ Niters;
if anybody is interested, my friend & I (who are both huge fans of the show) have been doing a weekly podcast since December, and we've just put up our new episode that strictly covers our thoughts on the finale.
We also do a bit of retrospective about our memories involving past experiences with the show, including where we were when we first saw it and what we thought of it back then.
Here's the link: it's Episode 23 (ha!) called "THE END (THE LOST SPECIAL PART II)
http://www.wadcast.com/
Enjoy!
@Shelby - I guess my point with Michael is that we only know that he was trapped on the Island at that time. Harold implied that he thought that's why Michael wasn't seen in the Sideways, but I don't agree. We don't know what rule was keeping Michael on Island: Maybe he had to forgive himself (and eventually did), maybe Hurley "changed the Rules" once he was in charge so the stuck souls could move on, maybe he was able to leave when the Island was unplugged, et cetera. Since the sideways world was outside of time (no "now" there) and everyone was remembering their entire lives original timeline lives, it would follow that the Michael there would remember it all, too (including his long interment as a whisper on the Island) IF he were to "wake up" but as far as we know he hasn't, and no one sought him out to help him "let go."
Sure, there's a chance Harold's right, but I think that DOES create the very inconsistant judgement of characters that you bring up. Why would Keamy, Ethan, Omar, Mikhail, et cetera, get to be in the Sideways and not Michael? I mean even Ben did worse things than Michael (had darker motives). So as far as I'm concerned EVERYONE had a go of it in the sideways world, but NOT everyone became aware of the true nature of their existence there. I mean we didn't see Eko or Walt or Cindi or Karl or Tom or Lapidus or Richard, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist in that universe - they just weren't a part of the story.
Maybe I'm just choosing to believe that's the same case with Michael, but if it's not, and he IS stuck for all eternity, then you're right that it becomes irrational who's allowed to get into the Sideways. I always like to choose the option that fits as many of the facts as possible :)
Either way though, it figures Keamy would waste his chance to "remember" and "let go" like the good guys ;)
Incidently, I'm with you entirely on the "It was all purgatory" matter. I just want to groan every time someone says that. I wonder if many would be saying that if ABC hadn't thrown those Flight 815 crash site imagaes over the end credits... silly ABC!
I posted a link earlier today and want off to try to authenticate it and when I couldn't after about a half hour I deleted the link. I've heard that Daniel Dae Kim posted the link and found no proof of that and a few other things. In short I coudln't prove the link so I deleted it.
@Nikki and anyone else interested:In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in.
We may all agree that the emotional elements that make up life were front and centre in the final episode. These are for lack of a better phrase, the "spiritual puzzles of existence" (or as the writer calls it "spiritual questions"): love, hope, faith, community, friendship.If most television shows do not touch upon these it is because most television is entertainment of a calculated variety to hold our attention for an hour or an half, and no more. So if we give a collective voice to what the LOST finale was about, a staggering number of fans would agree: the spiritual fabric whose threads weave both through our lives and between our lives.
That is why I find it so odd that this simple answer to "what was the final episode of LOST about?" remains susceptible to vagueness in its assertion by fans. Any declarative examples circle round the same examples, as if these are all that need inform us of the truth of the answer to the above question. It is as if we are enthusiasts of this conclusion, but ignorant of of its occurences throughout the series.
It must come as an unpleasant fact then to the show runners that if the show's audience acknowledges a particular interpretation (of spiritual questions) and yet cannot express that interpretation well beyond a few instances in the final episode, what have the show runners accomplished but a kind of one-off-deal? I would have expected a multiple of occurences from previous episodes recalling instances of "spiritual questions" (or as I call it "spiritual puzzles of existence") from nearly ever episode. Instead there is only a kind of vagueness in the responses, a kind of aphasia to express concrete instances of love, faith, hope, friendship, community.
And as if to make matters worse, we find ourselves bogged down in matters that were supposed to be incidental to the finale (so the writer has told us). Does the death of MiB provide as great an impact as Juliet and Sawyer's awakening to their love for each other? It is possible to rationalize every scene and level them all in their intensity; but if the spiritual questions should hold sway in our hearts then there must be something different between our valuations of scenes. In these few days since Sunday, the cross-examination of plot puzzles has increased in importance compared with what we believed on Sunday.
What has happened over a few days? Has the catharsis of the final episode worn away to the real world, to the unanswered questions? Has the show runners "unanswered question" (the spiritual question) reached it's climax, and has now become a shallow wave washing ashore? It is difficult to hold one's emotions at a pitch, and it is even more difficult where the ordinariness of everyday life is concerned. If the spiritual question is the core of the story, as our writer supposes, why is it fans have become so easily distracted by the periphery questions? And why is it we have such a flimsy understanding of that core, while we have an intense understanding of the periphery?
I know what I have written will appear ambiguous to some, but look at where we are now, and look at what we are principally writing about to each other. The core of the story might justly be the spiritual questions (the spiritual puzzles of existence), but once acknowledged we have begun to move on to the puzzles of mythology, the puzzles of plot, the questions of narrative, and the growing suspicions that the science fiction of the story (the counterfeit by our writer's reasoning) holds the intended meaning of the show.
@ Penguin, Shelb
You make perfect sense, dude. But as you say, you're extrapolating. the alleged bad robot guy says the finale addressed the science vs faith question, and it landed on faith. I'm uber happy with that, but they could have done it more scientifically so we could be here discussing bigger things then character motivations and wandering skeletons. In my mind, Darlton had a lot to prove this season, and i think they did make mistakes. Adam and Eve feels contrived that they were MiB and Mother, for example, as did Michael's explanation of the whispers, and his absence from from sideways. I agree with Shelb that he could have at least had a nod there just like Ana Lucia had one. He suffered Walt's absence before the crash, on the island, and after escaping, he saved the oceanic six by delaying the freighter bomb, and he gets condemned to be a whisper. My only consolation is that Hurley maybe has the power, and definitely the disposition to help him move on, but it would have been so nice just to see him wandering outside the church, longing to let go, but not bringing himself to go in and face the gang.
regarding Keamy, i think he was also a construct of the losties shared reality, it wasn't really Keamy as we knew him, but a face they needed to put on someone bad and dangerous in their constructed place.
again this is connect the dots. it doesnt really matter. but what i'm trying to say is it would have been avoided had TPTB dealt with stuff a bit differentely.
Thanks for the MiB explanation, Penguin, to some degree, it has put my mind at ease somewhat
Nikki - as always a brilliant summary, if anyone else gives me grief about the ending, the story and the whole point of Lost I will direct them to this article.
Where is the link to the article ?
True or not, this helped me to make intellectual sense of a finale that had already slayed me emotionally.
Before reading others comments I will say that, real or not, I like and agree with a lot of the theory. It seems to mesh well for me and pull things together nicely.
I do see J Maggio's comment and I would guess that they always knew of Desmond -- he was the "fail-safe". He got to bring along his love - Penny. Bernard was Rose's love. Sawyer got to bring Juliet to keep him happy. So important people in Jack's life didn't have to give up their loves just to move on with Jack. They all got to move on with him.
My questions is -- Is there a SideWays/After World for each of them? So, does Kate get to bring important people into her own afterlife and move on? Can people exist in two places at once so to speak? Or three, or four or a hunderd. Each in their own and in others that they were connected to?
Chelsea said...
LOST came down on the side of faith. And love. And hope. And all that good stuff that makes life beautiful.
I'm so totally with you. In the end, life is beautiful!!
Hey guys!
I'm sorry but I'm physically unable to read all of your comments so I'll probably be repeating some of the stuff that's already been said. I just feel like I need to say this, I'm sure you understand:) Sorry for the length. I will also paste this entry to the most recent article on the blog and the original finale post because I want some of you at least to read it and maybe tell me that I'm wrong or something;)
First of all, I LOVED the finale. It was a perfect ending to the story that we’ve been told over the years. Will it satisfy everyone? Of course not. With a story like this, there was no way they were going to make everyone happy and they came as close as they possibly could.
I just rewatched a few scenes (can’t bring myself to rewatch the whole thing, I don’t think I have it in me) and I’m still crying. Dammit, I’m a 26-year-old guy and I can’t stop weeping, what’s wrong with me?
The scenes that got me the most apart from the final images of course were basically all of the realization scenes from the sideways world (most notably the Juliet/Sawyer reunion) but the scene that simply destroyed me was the Jack/Hurley scene on the island where Jack was giving Hugo the job. Hurley screaming “you’re not supposed to die” was too much for me.
As much as I loved this season, I had one problem with it – the flash-sideways! It just seemed forced to me. It just felt like after watching 7,5 months of speculation among fans whether the bomb in “The Incident” worked or not, Darlton just went “Screw it, we’ll just give you both! Let’s say it didn’t work but we’ll show you the other version just in case you’re curious.” It didn’t seem fair and I was hoping that the two timelines would somehow merge in an epic way in the finale. Boy, was I right. The bomb didn’t work the way Jack and Faraday were hoping it would. It just moved the original Losties back to present day, that’s all, and the sideways world was showing us what the in-between world was like for them after their deaths. I’m calling it “in between” and not the afterlife because the afterlife is probably where they were headed in the end.
I also felt a bit cheated when watching the Sun/Jin/Sayid deaths because I was thinking “Well, it’s super sad but they’re not REALLY dead because we have the flash-sideways where they’re quite allright.” Now we all know that were watching the death of our beloved characters and there was no other life left for them. Tears.
Also, it was quite interesting how the in-between lives looked for the characters. They weren’t just simple “let’s give you guys a few really shocking changes in their backstory” differences. It was what they all wanted their lives to be:
- Sawyer was always a good guy who just happened to be on the wrong side of the law and now he got to be legally good as well;)
- Sayid’s point in life was always to protect Nadia by letting her go and so he did
- Sun and Jin were always going to be together but the thing that messed them up as a couple was in fact getting married:) so they weren’t married here and they were happy
and so on…
end of part one (not enough room – sorry guys;) )
part two
LOVED IT! I will defend it always. I will defend it logically and rationally why it was as awesome as it was. So to all the naysayers now (wow, this is becoming REALLY long, anyone still reading it?):
What questions were unanswered do you think? Because I think I got it. You don’t know what the island was? Well Jacob said it already to Richard in “Ab Aeterno” and the mother in “Across The Sea” actually confirmed it – the island is a magical place, a real place that somehow keeps the balance between good and evil and the cave with the giant cork is its heart. Maybe it’s not the only place like it in the world. Maybe it’s not even that, but the fact that it’s real and its magic and power are undeniable. What more do people want? They gave us an explanation with room for discussion. Isn’t that part of the reason why we all loved the show so much? That we got to talk about it? Help me out here.
And I agree with Nikki – people are always going to be disappointed. Darlton said they weren’t going to give us a Neo/Architect/midichlorian type explanation scene but people said they wanted one so they wrote the Christian/Jack scene in the finale where Christian explained everything about the in-between world and guess what? People are complaining. WTF? BTW – loved the “Christian Shephard? Seriously?” line from Kate :D
I have a friend who wrote this on facebook “big pile of crap with a bigger pile of s**t on top and a little poo cherry to finish the whole Lost drama” and Nikki said that there are other “love letters” like this one out there. Now don’t get me wrong, if you watch a few episodes and say “Not my cup of tea” or even “Sucks ass” and turn off – fine, no problem. If you turn off after 3-4 seasons because you get tired of all the drama and the mysteries and the love triangle – perfect. But if you stick around for the whole run, it’s because you’re a fan. You’re a LOST fan. And if you’re a LOST fan you might be disappointed with parts of the finale but you simply cannot hate the whole goddamn thing so much. It was a very definitive end to LOST – how can you hate it all if you’re a fan?? It doesn’t make any sense to me. If I’m wrong then please explain it but don’t go with the “I was watching the last two seasons just out of curiosity” argument because it’s just wrong – plenty of other shows out there for you to watch so you don’t have to waste time on sth because you’re curious.
And how upset can people be that a show where characters got regular visits from dead people would end showing us what happened to the main characters after they died? Seriously.
I’ll say it again, I loved it! Loved seeing Bernard and Rose again, loved the kiss between Jack And Kate, loved the epic fight between MIB and Jack (even the super cheesy “flying through the air with your fist up” moment;) ), loved the reunions in the in-between – I F***ING LOVED IT ALL!!
I’m done. Sorry it took me so long but I had all those thoughts and I had to get it out there! Anyone powered through? Anybody? No? Sure, you can go 6 seasons waiting whether Kate will choose Jack or Sawyer but you can’t go through my post? ;) Still I love you guys, I love Nikki and I love LOST. Big thanks for the past years. Now I’ll have to get a life brotha!! See you all in the church;)
Cheers
Paweł Kaczmarek
P. S. How hot did Kate look in that dress? I mean, seriously…wow!!
Whoever he works for (or doesn't), the ideas are interesting. His explanation of Dharma makes a lot of sense to me -- especially why it didn't work.
Although that does bring up another issue: was Richard always working for Jacob, or was he too at times a pawn for MIB thinking he was acting for Jacob?
This may have been said before, but the last couple days I've been thinking about how many characters besides Jack were just wrong a lot. For (big) instance, Desmond saw Charlie dying and Claire getting rescued, but didn't see the four-year time lapse. So Charlie died for Claire, but maybe it wouldn't have made that much difference either way?
OK, read the other comments. I am thinking that even though Bernard and Juliet and Libby weren't there in the first season, they did end up being people Jack felt responsible for saving, like the rest of the Lostaways. That's why they were in the church. "Knowing" Jack, he even felt responsible for Penny, because she was involved with the big lie he asked the Oceanic 6 to tell.
Fred said -- Instead there is only a kind of vagueness in the responses, a kind of aphasia to express concrete instances of love, faith, hope, friendship, community.
I respectfully disagree. It seems to me that Nikki has pointed out these themes time and again throughout her posts. If there is an inability to articulate them at this moment, I would suggest that is due more to the overwhelming emotion we feel that the show is over and that we feel we have already hashed over the individual details thoroughly. I think we are tending to discuss the things that we do not have concrete answers for and examples of because that is where we are still Lost.
@ PAUL K:
Kate, my friend, looked EXTREMELY hot in that dress! LoL Yowza! And for the record, if u saw Jimmy Kimmel's special afterwards, Emilie de Ravin wa slookin' equally fantastic! :)
In my mind, it doesn't matter if this person is 'legit' - his synopsis is quite good, albeit some snafus with re: S1.It seems to me that those in the church were the most crucial for securing the safety of the island, ultimately. (Yes, other person assisted, but in secondary roles).
I watched again last night, and was even more moved, now that I see the entire arc of this modern myth. Well done!
Mama Lost
@Question Mark: I did see it and I agree...she was, as kids are saying it these days, DA BOMB;) Much better than the island "I think they took my make-up kit along with my BAY-BEH" Claire...yikes;)
Beautiful Nikki! I agree with you that this was ultimately a story about the triumph of faith, destiny, and free will over rationalistic, modernist, scientific understanding of reality. To bookend the series with a man waking up in a jungle flawed, broken, controlling, and LOST and then dying in the same jungle as a man who learned what it truly means to be alive (redemption found in community and self-sacrificial love), this is beautiful. And very risky and spiritual. loved it!! and loved the character resolutions at the end - so moving. I've seen in 3 times now - the whole finale - and can't stop bawling each time! this story has affected me more than any book, movie, or tv show that i have ever been exposed to. can't imagine anything could ever top it!
and don't listen to the haters who are bickering about spelling / grammar mistakes. you are so busy with all your media interviews and writing so quickly to let us know your thoughts, and we appreciate it! it's naturally going to have a few mistakes if you write it fast, and i don't think it takes away from your credibility at all!
@Jen: Just a note, this post by Nikki is a copy/paste of a write-up circulating, claiming to be from an 'intern/aspiring writer/production assistant' working for Bad Robot.
Some of us (myself included) are debating the authenticity of this piece based on the grammatical errors (among other things) which are highly uncharacteristic of professional writers.
While the whole interpretation presented is valid in its own right, we are doubting the validity that it comes from someone 'close' to the show's production company; we are doubting the claim that he is presenting the actual vision of the writers.
Thanks for this explanation.
It really helped me.
I was crushed by the finale. Way too many lose ends for me.
Watched it again last night and with this information in mind it made sense.
Thanks to whoever wrote it.
Hi Nikki and everyone - I love your site, I am sorry I didn't discover it until the finale aired :(
Anyway this post intrigued me so being a librarian, I did some further research and went to the original thread - here is a quote from the OP about his analysis (he has taken down his original post):
Where did tgreg's post (#1026) go?
Apparently it's gone out wider than I ever intended. And it's being misconstrued as being from the writers of the show (on other sites I guess). Which I'm not. I just wrote it up for our little community here of Bills fans and forgot that we're actually a part of a way bigger internet community. I don't want people reading it and assumming it's THE answer or from the mouths of the show. It's just my take on it. Didn't want people to get the wrong idea.
Did not mean to cause a firestorm at all ... my apologies.
I hope this helps you in clearing up the veracity of this analysis!
Sorry about the lack of separation before the quote - it looks like what I just pasted here, has just been deleted from the forum as well.
So I guess that means you just have to take my word for it that it was there. But it was! :)
Anyway great work with your blog.
Grrr...
I pasted the wrong comment!
Here is what I meant to pase - which as of now is still on the message board from tgreg99-
No no, I'm not a writer on LOST, never written a single word for the show. I was about as signifigant as a stapler. The real people who deserve all the credit are Damon, Carlton, Eddie, Adam, Liz, the great staff, cast and crew. I worked in a lot of different capacities for the company and the show but never, ever, as a writer
Sorry about all the posts!
Dear “Adjectified Animals”: I appreciate the well-explained post @Sagacious Penguin: that the MIB leaving the Island would result in the end of everything,...
but, I’m with @brooding gekko: What exactly is the danger that MiB posed to the rest of the world if he escaped the island,...we never got a real confirmation of why was it such a big deal for the MiB to escape,...
Jacob, as well as so many others, was able to come and go at will from the Island – why couldn’t the MiB? Exactly what/who constrained him from just leaving like everyone else?
@Brooding gecko May 25, 2010 6:36 PM:(Anyway, HE says Ben was a ploy from the MiB to thwart Jacob's search for candidates amongst the Dharma crew. If so why did Jacob order the Purge (via Richard)?)
This makes me certain that the post from BR is a fake. Eventhough it has some valid points and was in fact a great fan summary. Read below to see why jacob ordered the purge. A theory anonymous posted which i agree on.... for now :P
@Anonymous May 25, 2010 7:19 PM:(WHOLE POST)
That makes sense why richard went over to ben and convince him to kill the whole dharma initiative. because they did indeed get close to the light. I think "the incident" the swan station was a result of them exposing the lights power. I was also seen in season 5 that daniel faraday was working on the donkey's wheel. maybe that was also when jacob was like "enough is enough, these people have really abused the islands power."
@Segacious Penguin May 25, 2010 7:36 PM:(and some very HUGE assumptions that the Sideways World was part of the plan from day one. From what we know of the LOST writing process straight from Darlton, there's no way they COULD have planned and executed something like the Sideways without a series end date. The only thing Matthew Fox knew about the ending was the shot of his eye closing -- and THIS is most likely what J.J's plan was. )
i think they could have planned something like the sideways world from the beginning because it had nothing to do with the actual storyline. all they had to do was introduce the whole time travel thing to the audience to be able to execute the flashsideways world, and they pretty much had planned the time travel element since season 1. So it might havebeen possible.
@brooding gecko...May 25, 2010 8:41 PM (WHOLE POST)
These are exactly my thoughts written in such a nice way :)
Note: after the epsiode "Across The Sea" i really felt for mib and why he needed to leave the island. I even kept cheering for him to kill all the losties and get the hell out. i felt so sorry for his character that i felt he should be free. because to him the losties were just people in the way of his freedom... i too did not view him as the ultimate evil that should be stopped.... i like to think of it as if the SMOKE left it would be a problem, but if the mortal version of flocke left then it would have been ok, but they HAD to kill him because if they didn't the smoke feature of flocke would be returned once the stone was plugged into the hole, and like SP said we'd be back to point A. and if they allowed mortal locke to leave on the plane or whatever then the island would sink and the light gone off once again. So it had to be with lock dying..
Basically there was no good or evil in lost.. jacob himself was not GOOD. i mean who would make a list of 360 candidates (i'm assuming 360 because of the compass thing in the light house) and choose 1 of them while the rest died becasue he called them into the island... that's not an act of a good person... that was a necessity jacob had to go through to ensure that the next protector would be a good, kind, gentle, human soul, and funny (hurley :D)
A lot of the things that he supposedly answered have already been explained before, during the course of the actual show. And many times, what he says contradicts what the show says. Hmm. Which source would I trust?
For example, he says the following: "Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB."
Now, remember why Jacob was bringing candidates to the island? Not to kill the MiB, but instead to fill the place of the island's protector once Jacob inevitably bites it.
I don't want to quote half the post, but if you go to the paragraph about DHARMA, you'll see some more problems. Besides the part that relates to Ben, which is kind of confusing and doesn't make sense with the answers we did get, the last bit doesn't really work either.
He says that the Others are actively trying to kill the castaways, while they have had multiple chances and haven't, save a select few.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
How ironic, given the point made by Christian to Jack in the end of the finale, that folks are still questioning whether or not the post from Greg Ernstrom is REAL.
Of course it is real. Every word of it is real.
It's just conjecture from a guy that worked as a production assistant for other Bad Robot productions, and not an actual writer on Lost.
The Sideways world turned out to be fake. Greg Ernstrom, and his conjecture is real.
@Nikki
Any update on if the author was a legit Bad Robot writer? Just curious.
The spelling and grammatical errors are not made by the author
@Paul K: (Also, it was quite interesting how the in-between lives looked for the characters. They weren’t just simple “let’s give you guys a few really shocking changes in their backstory” differences. It was what they all wanted their lives to be:
- Sawyer was always a good guy who just happened to be on the wrong side of the law and now he got to be legally good as well;)
- Sayid’s point in life was always to protect Nadia by letting her go and so he did
- Sun and Jin were always going to be together but the thing that messed them up as a couple was in fact getting married:) so they weren’t married here and they were happy)
Hahaha, so true! I too felt cheated, Darlton seriously dropped an H-bomb on us (pun intended) with the whole "in between" world, and just to sorta continue on your post:
-Locke always wanted a father and so in this reality his father was a good, loving person who was disabled. This made Locke A) Love his father even more B)make him ok with his own disablitiy C)thus letting go and living the happy life he was supposed to with Helen
-Claire never got to live the happy life she deserved so in this reality she found a family that loved her, made friends and got to have and raise her baby.
-Poor Kate felt that she did deserve the life as a runaway fugitive for her mistake. She could have imagined a world where she did not kill her stepfather but it was the only way for her to forgive herself.
-Hurley turned from unlucky thirteen to lucky number se7en :D
Oooh ooh have i told you guys about my NUMBERS THEORY?
Ok, so jacob told the Losties that he chose all of them because they were miserable in thier lives, and that's true for all of them except Hurley! He was miserable because of the cursed numbers.
Which made me realize that maybe jacob had planned Hurley to be the next protector and intentionally turned his life upside down.
Because of the numbers Hurley immediately felt a connection to the island, he already knew he was there for a purpose and was meant to follow his destiny.
Also Jacob already knew somehow of Hurley's ability to talk to the dead so he knew that he would be able to communicate with him if something happened to him! and it did! He died!
Who flippin cares whether or not it's got some grammatical errors - haven't you got more important things to worry about in your lives. The question you need to ask yourselves is whether or not the explanation seems plausible to you. The whole thing was open to interpretation as there is no definitive answer to "why". So is it important that the guy is genuine? Arguably yes, arguably no. You need to make your own judgement!
Michele:
"I am a big believer in Faith.... not necessarily as a religious faith...but as Faith in family, friends, values. Perhaps my belief in Faith is what made me love it so much. "
Thats not faith though is it. You believe in these people because you've developed a relationship with them over time. you trust and believe in them because they have done things to earn your trust and belief in them. thats got nothing to do with faith.
Religious faith is the same as any other kind of faith. faith is the belief in something without evidence. if there was evidence - you wouldn't need faith. you will be able to name countless pieces of evidence where a family member has done something to make you believe in them, im sure.
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