Tuesday, May 18, 2010

Lost 6.16 What They Died For

“That was where I was told I could summon the monster. That’s before I realized that it was the one summoning me.”

“We’re very close to the end, Hugo.” (Lost fans at home: "WAAAAAAH!!")

“Did you say there were some OTHER people to kill?”

“Maybe this is happening for a reason. Maybe you’re supposed to fix me.”

“I’ll do it. This is why I’m here. This is what I’m supposed to do.”

“I like to feel my feet on the ground. It reminds me that... I was human.”

Wow... the penultimate episode. SO close to the end... going into this episode, I’ve been doing a lot of media interviews this week and many of the interviewers are saying, “They have a LOT of ground to cover off in that finale, don’t you think??” But after this week’s episode, where many of the sideways people are coming together, where Jack has become Jacob’s official successor, where Ben has stepped up his game, where we now know what Smokey is up to... I think they’ve set the stage PERFECTLY for that finale. Wow... less than a week away and it’s all over. Thank god they made it count. I am now even more psyched for that finale than I was before. I didn’t think that was possible!!

Answers:
• Widmore works on Jacob’s side. Jacob recruited him off-island the same way he recruited Ilana.
• Jacob: “You were all flawed. I chose you because you were like me. You were all alone. You were all looking for something that you couldn’t find out there. I chose you because you needed this place as much as it needed you.”
• Kate’s name was crossed off because she was a mother.
• The cave names WERE Jacob’s, and he was the one crossing them off, even though we thought it was Smokey.
• Widmore brought Desmond to the island because he was immune to the electromagnetism. Still not clear why he needed that.
• Smokey wants to destroy the island.

Highlights:
• Manipulative, bad American accent Desmond!!!
• “We have to kill him Jack.” “I know.” Both my husband and I went, “OOOOH!!” loudly. Finally! ACTION!!
• Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, and Jack all standing on the beach looking out at the wreckage. There was something so melancholy about that scene, like you could see on all their faces the looks of what they’ve gone through over the past three years.
• Desmond beating the crap out of Ben and Ben seeing the other world. Holy CRAP, Desmond!!! I didn’t know he had it in him.
• Miles: “Well I lived in these houses 30 years before you did... otherwise known as last week.” LOL!
• Richard buried Alex. :::sniffle:::
• Miles, seeing the ancient door in Ben’s back room, “And what is that, a secreter room?”
• Ben and Widmore!! IN THE SAME ROOM!!
• The look on Desmond’s face when he ends up in the jail cell with Sayid, next to Kate.
• I was so excited when morose Sawyer referred to Locke as “Flocke,” but upon rewatch I think he said, “If Locke wanted...” and it just sounded like “Flocke.” False alarm.
• Petit Jacob!
• “Give me your walkie-talkies.” “Why?” “Because I asked.” HA!! (Actually, that would have been even better if Widmore had said, “Um... technically you DIDN’T ask. You demanded.”
• Holy Richard Alpert Smokey tackle!!! WTF was that?! Is he OK??
• Alex: “Why would someone want to hurt you? You’re like the nicest guy ever!” I LOVE how different Ben is in this world!!
• Rousseau!!! And she cleans up well! :)
• “Zoe... my name is Zoe, I’m...” SLICE!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!! Earlier in this episode when Richard and Ben had their guns pointed at her, I was yelling, “SHOOT. HER. WHAT are you WAITING for???” But this scene was so much better. I now find myself on Team Man in Black!!!
• Ben turning away in mock “I’m not listening” when Widmore says he doesn’t want him in the room.
• Ben shooting Widmore!!! “He doesn’t get to save his daughter.” Ben is BACK!!
• “Ben... you never cease to amaze me.”
• Jacob saying he crossed Kate off because she was a mother. I actually welled up when he said that, as if to suggest that motherhood is as important a job as protecting that island. Quite a thing to say, considering his mother. That was like the perfect Mother’s Day card from Darlton.
• “I thought that guy had a God Complex before.” Ha! Poor Sawyer, trying to make light of a difficult situation.
• I loved Jack agreeing to the job, bringing his character full circle from Christian telling Vincent, “My son has work to do” in the thirteenth mobisode. This moment had a real finality to it.
• Sayid referring to Desmond as the crazy person in the van. “I ran over a guy in a wheelchair.” “See what I mean?” LOL!
• Ana Lucia!!! She’s even more hardass in this world than the other one!!

Did You Notice?:
• OK, first of all, that previously on bit? PAINFUL. Did they really need to show me everything that broke my heart two weeks ago? Like I was going to forget it or something. Wah. Pain.
• Did anyone else notice that at breakfast they were all eating a cereal called “Super Bran”? Did anyone else laugh as hard as I did at that revelation? It’s weird, because this is the first season where I didn’t think Jack had something up his butt. :::snicker:::
• Claire’s pregnancy belly is SO fake. The season 1 belly looked real. This one does NOT.
• Jack stitching up Kate is reminiscent of Kate stitching up Jack in the pilot episode.
• Sawyer stares out at the water the way Locke and the Man in Black always did.
• That high school seriously needs 24-hour surveillance. (One nitpick: I doubt the students would be welcoming back a substitute teacher like he was some long-term prof who has shaped them for years.)
• Ben’s safe has a fridge light in it that comes on when he opens the door! ;)
• Widmore must have run that water a LONG time before taking a sip. Who exactly has been on the island to keep the plumbing working and the water clean??
• When Widmore talks about Jacob, you can hear the Jacob music playing in the background, as if to suggest Widmore is telling the truth.
• Ben’s injuries, from his facial lacerations right down to the broken left arm, are almost identical to the ones Desmond inflicted on the dock.
• When Ben looks in the mirror (mirror!) he has this weird sneer on his face and looks like some bully in a Norman Rockwell painting.
• I said in “Everybody Loves Hugo” that I wondered if the museum would end up being the place they’d all end up gathering at, and I was right!! It’s where the concert is being held. Jack and his kiddo, now Hurley, Sayid, Kate, Desmond... Miles and Charlotte, Pierre Chang (they’re going to get Sawyer’s butt there somehow... probably following Kate’s butt), and I can hope Eloise and Daniel and Penneh are among the guests. And... Jack’s wife. Watch... after all this speculation it’ll probably end up being Sarah. Ha!! Cannot WAIT!!!! Maybe the dinosaur bones will all come to life and will eat them all. And Hank Azaria will get into a battle of wits with Steve Coogan.
• Des asks Kate how she’s doing, and she mutters, “Terrific.” That was a word Charlie used in the pilot episode, and Frank Lapidus said it again when he realized the plane wasn’t going to Guam.
• Sawyer accepting responsibility for the deaths, and Jack telling him it wasn’t his fault. That was a lovely bromance scene.
• Jacob is sitting next to the fire, and those red flowers are next to him (they usually appear in a scene that’s particularly foreboding and often ends in death).
• “You’ve got one hand. You look like Napoleon.” That line would have been funny if they hadn’t already beaten home the BEN IS NAPOLEON idea in “Dr. Linus,” where he had the entire classroom lecture on how Napoleon got the island but he didn’t have any power and so it was useless, yadda yadda.
• “We insist!! Even if we have to kidnap you.” LOL sideways world role reversal!!
• OMG could you imagine Rousseau and Ben hooking up???
• Ben has always felt close to Alex, but the fact he tears up when Rousseau talks about him being a father figure suggests that maybe the emotions from the other world are shifting over into that one, even if the actual circumstances surrounding them haven’t broken through yet. He definitely looks at Rousseau differently when she’s up close, like he knows her somehow.
• “You don’t need to see this.” “I wanna see this.”
• Smokey to Widmore on Zoe: “You told her not to talk to me. That made her pointless.” Sorry to break it to you Smokey, but she was pointless LONG before you cut her throat.
• Jacob says he only has until the fire burns out, and I turned to my husband and said, “It would really suck if there was suddenly a flash rainshower right now!!” ;)
• The cuts on Locke’s face when he goes to see Jack are in the same spots as the ones he had in “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham” when he was hit by the car.
• Locke says he was hit by a car, and “of all of the doctors in Los Angeles I ended up with you.” This is what he says to Jack in “Bentham,” but Jack, who’s strung out and high and hates Locke, freaks out and says that’s crazy talk and refuses to listen to him. In this scene you can tell Jack’s not completely on board, but he tolerates what Locke says. Then Locke keeps on talking, and when he says, “Maybe this is happening for a reason,” a line he said over and over in the other world, the line that made Jack go NUTS, Jack simply says here, “Maybe you’re mistaking coincidence for fate.” In “What Kate Did,” Locke marvels at the fact that Eko brought the missing piece of orientation film, and Eko says, “Don’t mistake coincidence for fate.” In “The Cost of Living,” Desmond remarks that a plane crashing on the top of the Pearl station was quite a coincidence, and Locke, whose faith was shaken when the hatch exploded, responds, “Don’t mistake coincidence for fate.” Jack saying it to Locke in this world doesn’t actually make Locke rise to the fight... he simply says, “Call it what you will” and they continue to have their conversation. It’s interesting that they’re not at each other’s throats in this world.
• I loved Jacob’s blunt, “No you weren’t” when Sawyer said he was just fine before Jacob bugged him.
• Jacob says he wants to give all of them the choice, because he didn’t have one. Kate says but what if none of us chooses it. He says it’ll end badly. So... it’s not really a choice, is it? SOMEONE has to do it, and all four can’t walk away.
• I ♥ Jack.
• “Now you’re like me.” This is what Mommie Dearest said to Jacob last week.
• You know what? If the only world I had to go on was the sideways world, I’d be a Skater all the way. LOVE the flirtation between them in this world!!
• Smokey refers to Desmond as Widmore’s “failsafe”... the reason Desmond is the way he is, is because he turned the failsafe key in the Swan station.

So Many Questions...
• What does that red gash on the side of Jack’s neck signify? He saw it in the mirror on the airplane in “LA X,” and now he sees it again, like it’s fresh and gaping again. It doesn’t look like he cut himself shaving... could it be some indication of the two worlds opening to each other?
• The sideways world opens on Jack’s eye... is it possible that now that he’s the new Jacob, he actually creates this world somehow? Could this entire world be something that exists in his head? Or something he gave the world as a gift?
• Holy crap, was Desmond planning on running over Locke AGAIN?! How many times does he have to mow the guy down to make him see the light? Why is it so hard to get Locke to see the other side?
• Did Miles get any message or a feeling from Alex when he stepped over her? He says to Ben, “I don’t think...” but never finishes.
• Is Desmond’s hair darker in this world?
• Any police officers out there reading this? Would men and women be in cells where they could see each other in lockup? What if one had to go to the bathroom?
• Why does little Jacob appear to Hurley? Why not just appear as his older self? Is there a reason to use the child version?
• Does Ben really want the island all to himself? Or is he also working on ulterior motives aligning himself with Smokey?
• Does anyone know what the Latin incantation is that Jacob says?
• What happens when someone drinks the water? Does Jack end up having some longterm island memory, like he’s now aware of everything that’s ever happened?
• What is Desmond going to ask Sayid and Kate to do?
• Why is Ana Lucia not ready yet? Is this just a convenient device not to involve her?
• Why are there different degrees of visions? Ben has the vision of being hit but nothing else, yet Hurley totally knows Ana Lucia.
• How is Smokey going to use Desmond to destroy the island? And... doesn’t that kind of cancel off the promise he made to Ben that if Ben helps him he’ll let him have the island??

Me tomorrow:
I’m on Facebook! I will be doing a lot of media in the coming days, and I’ll be posting the updates here on my Facebook page, so tune in!

I’m also on Twitter. I’m bad at tweeting, though. I twit infrequently. ;)

Tomorrow listen in to Marshall and Forbes on The Ocean 98.5 in Victoria, BC at 7:10 a.m. local time, 10:10 a.m. EST. Go here and click on the Listen Now button if you’re out of the listening area.

And tomorrow at noon I will once again be participating in the Globe and Mail Lost chat from noon to 1pm EST. Go here to ask questions and comment. See you there!

And finally, listen to KEX 1190 at 6:20 p.m. PST, 9:20 p.m. EST where I’ll be on the Mark & Dave show (and they’re big Lost fans so it’s always fun). Go here and click the Listen Now button:


Next week:
My brother emailed me to say, “Why did they get E.T.’s mom to do the voiceover on the commercial at the end?” HAHAHAHA!!!!! I would post the YouTube clip, but the entire site appears to be down. I’ll try posting it tomorrow.

411 comments:

1 – 200 of 411   Newer›   Newest»
Joan said...

The cave names WERE Jacob’s, and he was the one crossing them off, even though we thought it was Smokey.

Seems strange, that. Why two locations? Why different numbers at different sites? Hmmm. I don't understand...he crossed off Kate but she can still have the job...so, why cross her off? What is the point, cross her off because she'll probably say "no". I mean, Sawyer is a parent too (albeit an absentee) but he didn't get crossed out.

Also, when Rousseau was all "You must come - even if we have to kidnap you." to Ben - LOL!

Gracie said...

There is no way to know yet if this is a good thing or a very bad thing, but did the entire universe hear me scream when Ben blew Widmore away?? Not that it was a bad scream in any way. More of a "Finally!" sort of scream. "He doesn't get to save his daughter." This would have been proceeded by the very loud "YES!" everyone heard when Locke slit Zoe's throat. Yep, that was me. Sorry to interrupt your viewing pleasure, but I've been waiting for that outcome for a very long time!! For better or worse, it's done.

Marebabe said...

I'll comment on tonight's awesome episode later, but here's an item I want to share.

The Story of “Mmm...Cake!”

Our local 10:00 news did a four-minute spot tonight, explaining how those strange little video blurbs came to be on YouTube and circle the globe in just a few days. I will briefly sum up.

About three years ago, ABC offered to shoot custom ID’s for their affiliates featuring one or more actors from LOST. Dude named Tim who works at KAKE (huge LOST fan) got the idea to try something a little edgy, as opposed to the usual dull, boring “Watch LOST on KAKE.” He sent his idea to ABC almost as a joke, didn’t imagine they’d actually do it. Big surprise, they got FOUR actors to participate – Jorge, Yunjin, Elizabeth and Michael. The problem was, the promos came back at the END of the season. They weren’t much use then, so the marketing guys just put the spots away.

When S6 was about to start, Tim decided to share the videos with his family and friends on his MySpace page. Eventually, some girl in Russia (how did they track her down?) ran across his MySpace page, lifted the promo video and uploaded it to YouTube as her own, and it went viral. The suits at KAKE are very pleased about this, because traffic on their website has dramatically increased because of the “Mmm...Cake!” video. And by the way, in place of the green screen backdrop, the actors are seen in front of the Island with a huge “LOST” looming up big behind them. Pretty cool.

Benny said...

Yay. off to read it now!

Joan said...

SHOOT. HER. WHAT are you WAITING for???

Haha! I can't believe she got it so bad - it's like they knew we'd all hate her and want her to die a gross death on screen. Bravo, Darlton, bravo!

And Ben killing Charles :0 and Richard getting tackled ;_;


Also, I got all welled up at the mom comment, too. I thought it was really bittersweet.

Blam said...


One quick thought:

I must say that the scene by the campfire went a long way towards making me feel better about how this is all wrapping up.

More later when the migraine's abated, if the Internet connection's working...

JS said...

Nikki – as usual, you caught all the little details I jotted down, so I’ll just say, this was the awesome finale set up episode, or definitely in the top two. I was on the edge of my seat. Practically every line, every action had me going. It was brilliant.

Couple fave lines
Rousseau – “You are coming with us, even if we have to kidnap you!” ; you are the closest thing he has to a father (and Ben getting verklempt)

Jacob - “When it burns out, you’ll never see me again. We are very close to the end.” Shut up Jacob, you are making me cry! "You needed this Island as much as it needed you."

Locke - What if this is happening for a reason (come back to us Locke, yes). Jack – don’t mistake coincidence for fate ( I was saying the line before he was)

Couple of additional observations
• If everyone is dead if Smokey leaves the island, what does widmore care if Smokey promises not to go after her? Everyone is dead.

• Ben must be conning FLocke. Particularly since Smokey’s promise of having the island is null and void if he destroys it – duh. But he sure did enjoy giving up Widmore

• Speaking of Widmore, that was kind of dumb of them to just stand in the closet. I thought they were going in the secreter room tunnel?

• I got upset when Jack drank the enchanted water. I don’t want him to have Jacob’s job, it is so lonely and awful. But since the island will be destroyed, and he has to kill Smokey, I don’t think he will have the job for long. But it was weird feeling like that.

wv - plain. I'm serious.

Benny said...

So complete. Anyone who's unsure of what's happening should really read your posts. It's simple and informative. The comments; sometimes we go overboard!


Sneaky Des

Wow, I know even less what to say than last week!

There's an odd feeling of end because we know so, but every time we feel it in the show, it picks up again. With the anointment and Desmond's plan coming together, there is definitely a feeling of bittersweet excitement creeping in.

1. Sneaky Desmond calling Jack about the missing coffin.

2. Widmore was invited by Jacob, he saw the "error of his ways", was asked to bring Desmond.

3. Sneaky Desmond, beating Ben Linus. Forcing him to have and event looking at himself in the mirror. Delivering a message to Locke.

4. Sneaky Desmond, getting close to Kate and Sayid.

5. Jacob: "We're very close to the end Hugo."

6. Turn of faith for Ben. He never could align with Widmore.

7. Danielle: "Even if we have to kidnap you" Bwahahahaha!!!

8. Desmond is a measure of last resort, a failsafe.

9. Jacob: "I made a mistake [...] You call him the monster, but I'm responsible for what happened to him [...] I made him that way"

10. Jacob: "Because you became a mother. It's just a line of chalk in a cave, if you still want the job, it's yours"
So it would appear it is Jacob's cave. But it would also appear that being scratched is not necessarily significant to the purpose of being a candidate.

11. Jacob: "I want to give you what I never had, a choice." After running away for so long, Jack now chooses to stay on the island.

12. Hurley: "You didn't tell me Ana Lucia was gonna be here"
Ana Lucia: "Do I know you?"

13. "I'm gonna destroy the island."


While Jacob anoints Jack the new protector of the island, his words to Hurley, "We're very close to the end", may suggest that it will actually end, and Jack may not need to fulfill his duties for as long as Jacob had to.

What if the sunken island in fact protects the source/light from being reached by anyone? Protected forever and there is no continuous need for a protector/Jacob!

Susan said...

Two weeks ago we lost 4 regulars, tonight we lost 2 (I am assuming Richard is dead, but I don't count Zoe as a major character). Prior to that we lost Ilana. Who's next??

Generally I haven't been that thrilled when dead people appear in the FS (with a major exception - Dan), but it was good to see Sayid again. He was hilarious.

Nikki you were wondering about the differences between FS Hurley's and Ben's "memories" of the OT. One idea I came up with is that Hurley is able to see the dead in the OT, and maybe he can sense the OT in the FS. Or maybe he's just had a little longer to "remember" things because he probably has been spending more time with Libby.

Even though there was some action and important scenes on island, this was probably the first episode all season where I was more interested in the FS. I want to know more about what Des is doing.

I wonder if Ben realizes that Locke just threatened to blow up the island that he had promised to Ben, and if Ben does realize it, what is he going to do? I don't necessarily buy that he is on Locke's side, any more than Sawyer was on Locke's side.

I was a little disappointed in the explanation for Widmore's sudden conversion to the good guys' side. "Jacob visited me." Why didn't we get to see it?

Where is Miles???

Susan said...

JS: "• Locke - What if this is happening for a reason (come back to us Locke, yes). Jack – don’t mistake coincidence for fate ( I was saying the line before he was)

Me too!

The Question Mark said...

@NIKKI: I thought Sawyer said "Flocke" for a second, too! LoL
and
when Widmore made his speech about Jacob visiting him, I thought at first that he might be lying. But, like you said Nikki, when they played Jacob's theme in the background, it seemed to verify that this was all true.

Destroy the Island?! Damn! We're on the home stretch now!
I gotta say, it was really nice seeing Jacob appear to everyone and actually sit down and give them some kind of explanation. Those poor souls have been traipsing through that jungle for 6 seasons without any kind of clue.

So what can we look forward to seeing in the finale? Here's my Checklist of Hope:

-some minor info about the origin of the Numbers Broadcast.
-the identities of the outrigger shooters from Season 5.
-the reason the Island is underwater.
-more info regarding who/what Mother is.
-info on who completed the Frozen Donkey Wheel, and why,
-mega-Museum scene in Sideways-World.
-that darned Hurley bird
-that also darned volcano
-WAAAAAAAAAALT!

The Question Mark said...

P.S.- If Richard is dead from that Smokey attack I don't know what I'm gonna do with myself :(

Lesley C said...

Another great recap, Nikki. Thanks!

@JS - I totally agree: Ben must be conning Flocke. Why else send Miles out into the jungle with a walkie-talkie? I think the whole time Ben and Flocke are talking Ben has the "send" button held down on the walkie so Miles knows (something) of what's going on back in Dharamaville.

I've said it before: I adore Miles. He seems like a bit character from time-to-time. However, he's still kicking AND he'll be at the concert where Desmond is herding all the other important players in the alterna-world. Miles still has a role to play (yes?).

Gracie said...

I think people should generally be happier this week with the number of answers given. I know my questions as a result of the episode are more general and not so anxious except for one. The last two and a half hours should just tidy everything up, show if and how the timelines come together and, if it is, what it means that the island is underwater. As for my anxious question, ANYBODY??

I asked this several times before and nobody answered me, so I took it to a private e-mail where I believe I was told it wasn't going to happen so forget it. I'll ask again: IF Locke (the living one) is taken back to the island, and then ends up face to face with FLocke, what happens? All of you people who understand time travel (going back in time and shooting your grandfather and it's implications?) should be able to answer this. Doesn't one of them, Locke or FLocke, need to just go poof? Someone please finally explain to me what happens if one, the real thing, were to meet up with the other, the unreal thing? I'm just about begging here. I've asked this for so long. Even if you don't believe it will happen here on Lost, in time travel, as you understand it, if Locke were taken back to the island, and met up with FLocke, how would that work out?

Loretta said...

You know, I always loved Jack, even when others complained that he got douchey (I wouldn't go that far) and whiny (okay, I'll concede on that point). He made some mistakes, but his intentions always seemed noble--more noble, in face than most of the other characters--and he just hadn't completed his journey yet. Now he has, and my heart aches for the possibility that he might have to stand guard over the island for millenia.

I hate to admit that I've still got a number of burning questions, though we got tons of answers tonight. I'm just trying to reconcile myself with the fact that we're most likely going to get answers on the most important stuff (why Ms. Hawking always knows so much, what the sideways world's purpose is, why Desmond is so special and what he can do) but there are some things that will always remain unresolved (why Walt and Aaron were so important at first, whatever happened to Rose, Bernard and Vincent, where the heck alt-Juliet is, why Eko was killed, why Dharma first came to the Island...).

I guess my point is that I'm going to do my best not to be dissatisfied, and I'm sure my mind will be blown by the finale (much like it was tonight). But maybe its my pessimist side that's concerned that a week or two after the finale, when its sheer awesomeness has receded from my mind a little, I'll start saying to myself "But what did XYZ mean??"

Still, I've been entertained as hell for 6 years, so maybe that should be enough.

At any rate, it's going to be a hell of a lot better than the BSG finale. :-P

Amsted said...

Do you think Richard is still alive? I thought Smokey killed him with that tackle.

Rainier said...

@Gracie: I don't know about the universe but I sure heard you scream (with joy) when Widmore bought it! Not too long after I heard Nikki's scream when Zoe's throat was cut...

VW: schipme - please implant a security chip under my skin.

Zari said...

Ben: That special room is where I summoned the monster -- before I realized it was summoning me.

Sawyer, about Jacob: I thought that guy had a God-complex before!

When Jacob "blesses" the water, and gives it to Jack: Drink this. Now you're just like me. This scene was so reminiscent of religious communion services.

Word Verf: waile : and gnashe my teethe if one haire on Hurley's deare heade is harmed.

Anonymous said...

I seem to recall an interview that Sheila Kelley did with TV guide (or maybe it was something else), where she talked about the critical part her character would play.
Was she deluded or were they feeding her false pages? Or will they use her coke bottle glasses to create a laser to somehow zap MIB? Honestly.

JS said...

What I am hoping to see in the finale (even though, really, at this point, I have complete faith it will be genius)

1. Eloise Hawking and how she became the time cop.

Actually, I'm pretty happy right now. I just want to watch them blow shi*t up and see a fantabulously "electric" treatment of Smokey.

Benny said...

@Gracie: RE: your question.

Nothing will happen, for different reasons.

1. They are different entities. Locke's body coexisted at the same time as the Locke-impersonation. The question would be more relevant if we were talking about two living Lockes.

2. If they do meet, then we are talking traveling across universes, not time. And so far nothing about science can say anything to that effect. But the thought is that nothing should happen.

3. Time travel does not exclude meeting yourself. If you do so then you must have met your future self before going back in time. If you do not see your future self and go back in time to try and meet yourself, 1 of two things are likely to happen:
A] Self-consistency, things happen so that you cannot create that paradox; or,
B] You create a paradox, which causes a branching of the timeline.
But since we are talking different universes/realities, then nothing can be predicted or expected.

Zari said...

Apparently ABC can’t wait to be done with LOST! Did you see the blip-promo at the beginning of tonight’s episode for “No Ordinary Family”? ABC announced its post-"Lost" primetime lineup today:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/tvblog/2010/05/abc-unveils-first-post-lost-pr.html”

New programs include a “strange-things-happen-after-plane-crash” drama the network hopes will be less cultlike and more, well, broadcast-like than "Lost." It's one of seven new series joining ABC's primetime slate in the fall. (...Gone is "FlashForward, among others....)

On Tuesdays, the new drama, "No Ordinary Family", is about a family that goes on vacation, only their plane crashes into the Amazon River -- nooooooo, not another plane crash! But, unlike "Lost," they all survive -- not just the hot young ones -- only they discover each of them now possesses unique and distinct superpowers, that seem to have something to do with having crashed up the Amazon instead of, say, the Potomac. (It’s basically a live-action version of the animated "The Incredibles.")

Word Verf: psiart : The talent for computing 1 pound per square inch = 6 894.75729 pascals

Benny said...

@Gracie:

There's also a [C] option to that 3rd point but I can't muster the energy to write it tonight.

Basically, you create a paradox and dynamics adjust the timeline to create circumstance leading to self-consistent circumstances.

Think of it as time correction. I wrote a small mathematical brief on something similar last season about how one could change the past in a way that would appear to create a paradox but would change events to create a self consistent timeline.

But again, going back to my previous post, this is not what is happening here.

Lauren said...

I absolutely adored how Jacob told Kate:
"It's just chalk on a wall. The job is yours if you want it."

Jacob's explanation in that scene was so simple... and to me... just perfect.

They were all alone, in one way or another. They all needed something. How did I not come to that conclusion before... I tried every other possibility. Daddy issues, Mommy issues, job issues, blah blah blah. Just awesome.

Kate was crossed off when she had someone to protect and be there for, but Aaron is safe with his biological family, so Kate can protect the island if she had truly wanted to. But we all knew it had to be Jack ;)

I'm now more jazzed for Sunday than ever before. Holy crap!

Rainier said...

@Gracie: I was going to take on your question, but Benny mostly summed it up quite nicely. It might be very strange for the real Locke, but would not create any problems in terms of paradox...(however, I will say here that it is not travel between universes, but between possibilities within the same universe. This is a subtle distinction, but from the perspective of existent writings in speculative fiction, changes the game a little bit.)

I have previously said quite a bit about the creation of the Sideways timeline, and have said that I think it relates to quantum mechanics and Schrodinger's Cat. The relevant part of this here is that the ST and the OT can co-exist just fine, provided that there is no external observer. The concept of an external observer could be extended to include anyone with intimate knowledge of both timelines, and any action by said observer (or even the fact that they were directly observing the timeline that they are not from) could cause the two timelines to collapse into a single possibility.

One way or another, this is going to happen in the finale - count on it(though I don't see it happening as the result of any Locke/Flocke confrontation!)If the writers follow from what has been done before, we will get one possibility or the other - and my bet is on the OT.

BUT, this being Lost, there is also a possibility that some things will survive from the ST. I don't, sadly, think it will be any of the characters, but some bleedthrough has already happened - though notably it seems to go in one direction (from the OT to the ST), and it could be that elements from the ST will survive. I'd love to see that happen.

Kotowski said...

"We're very close to the end, Hugo."

A TON of plotlines made a bunch of progress tonight, and it the series is doing an outstanding job of wrapping it all up nicely. Before my in-depth analysis, here are my casual highlights of the episode.

- Richard's death : not very dramatic, but effective and shows just how dangerous and difficult to kill the MIB is. Richard served his purpose of being a servant to Jacob faithfully (until this season) and refused to serve MIB.

- "It's nice to talk without those fences between us." That entire scene was incredibly tense, and Zoe's and Widmore's deaths cap it off.

- Jack's acceptance of the role of the Guardian. Awesome, sad, brilliant.

In-depth analysis starts here:

Jack has now become Jacob's successor as the Island's Guardian, and he will now never leave the Island. His acceptance was sad in that it showed Kate's reaction to seeing her former fiancee deciding to stay on the Island forever and never return. It will be interesting to see the relationship between her and Jack in the finale. Does she feel abandoned now? Will Kate decide to stay with him? Will she drink the youthful water too? Or will she stay with Jack and then die while he lives on?

Ben will probably move in with Danielle and Alex. It's so fascinating to see Ben as a kindhearted character and as a manipulative schemer in the same episode. He clearly kills Widmore out of revenge for Alex, but he decides to continue helping MIB because he finally has a role to play again. Is he stalling to help Jack and everyone? Or is Ben truly willing to seek out the enemies of the Monster?

Desmond made a shitload of progress with gathering characters this episode. He seems to know exactly how to make people remember the Island, and I am eagerly anticipating what happens at the museum concert. Everyone will be there (assuming Jack's son is playing piano and Jack invites Locke and Claire). The mysterious mother of Daniel will be there, as will Sawyer, Miles, Charlotte, Kate, Sayid, Hurley, Desmond, and (I think) Faraday.

Kotowski said...

Jack stitched up Kate just like Kate stitched up Jack in "Pilot, Part 1".

Jacob says that they must kill the Monster or else the Monster will eventually find a way to kill them. Jacob could not bring himself to kill his brother, so he threw him into the Cove, since it is "worse than death"...but not quite death!

Sawyer finally believes in Jacob early on in this episode, when he accepts the fact that his tampering with the C4 caused the deaths of Jin, Sun, and Frank. Of course, he'd believe in the power of Jacob later on when he actually sees him.

I was wondering why Jacob would burn his ashes if that would make him vanish for good. My brother-in-law enlightened me with the thought that perhaps the burning of his ashes makes him visible to people other than Hurley. I'll accept this for now.

Widmore tells the Monster that Desmond was brought back due to his electromagnetic properties and that he is Jacob's ace in the hole against the Monster. If Jack and the Candidates are somehow killed by the Monster, is Desmond a "reset button" in Jacob's game? Desmond's electromagnetic properties would make him immune to the negative side-effects of the Cove's Light. Will the Monster attempt to throw Desmond into the Cove to destroy the Island? It would be an overload of electromagnetism, akin to the Swan's detonation, but, well...Island-size. The Monster wanted Desmond dead at first because he did not know why he was there. Now that he knows he can use Desmond's unique properties to aid him, he will try and find Desmond as soon as he can. The finale may very well focus on a race to find Desmond first.

Locke agreeing to go through with Jack's operation brings back the John Locke we know and love. This Locke is now a MAN OF FAITH, and that makes him a very, very important man.

We learn that Kate's name was crossed out because she became a mother to Aaron. It's rather important though that the names mean nothing in the long run, and that if someone feels like they are meant for the job, then they can still have it.

It was nice to see Hurley's camaro again. I love how he still has it.

Jack tells Locke to not mistake coincidence for fate, which is what Mr. Eko told Locke as well.

Everything is set, and "The End, Parts 1 & 2" are going to kick some major ass. One of the markings of a great show is unpredictability, and "Lost" has always amazed me with this. Even with one episode left, I still have no idea what is going to happen (thanks in no small part to the enigmatic Sideways storyline).

NOTICE FOR SUNDAY NIGHT: I'll be a little late with my blog thoughts on Sunday night/Monday morning. I'm watching the finale at a party at my sister's house, and may be away from a computer. I'll try and post my review asap. Also, I will write my thoughts on the series as a whole and what is has done for television, storytelling, and me personally.

Until then...that's it!!! One episode (technically two) left!

Here's what I STILL have to say about "Lost", in the words of the Smoke Monster: "You never cease to amaze me."

Gracie said...

Nikki said: "Sawyer stares out at the water the way Locke and the Man in Black always did."

I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice this.

Nikki says: "Smokey refers to Desmond as Widmore’s “failsafe”... The reason Desmond is the way he is, is because he turned the failsafe key in the Swan station."

Notice that Smokey was to be "Widmore's failsafe", not a failsafe that would protect everyone. So once again he's planned to use somebody to further himself, or to protect himself above all others? Yep, looks like it!

Nikki says: "What happens when someone drinks the water? Does Jack end up having some longterm island memory, like he’s now aware of everything that’s ever happened?"

For what it's worth, my interpretation of this is "Yes"!

Rainier said...

First, I did like the episode, even though the answers are sure coming fast and furious! I am not a person who needs or wants everything spelled out. Still, I thought they did a great job with it.

That said, I had some issues with Jacob's statement that everyone he brought to the island was already flawed and alone. OK, true for some, to be sure. But in the ST, a number of characters seem to be OK. Jack really has it together and has a fabulous kid, whom he obviously loves. Sawyer is doing OK, he has a decent career; eventually he'd probably even find a girl. Hurley is happy and sane and seems to be doing just fine. Jin, Sun, and Sayid are certainly no worse off, and they are not dead (yet). Ben, Alex, Rousseau - while not, granted, candidates - are all far better off. Not to mention Daniel, Charlotte, Charlie, Claire, and whomever I'm forgetting. So how can Jacob really say that these people "needed the island as much as it needed them," and have it be believed by us, when we see that in a world where Jacob does not interfere at all, they are either better off or at least no worse for it? While it is clear that given Jacob's interference in their lives from early on and the places that they were each in when they were brought to the island, I am having trouble swallowing the line that they "needed the island," as if that were the only way they could possibly have been happy.

VW: sonsi - (Sp.)Yes, he is my boy.

Rainier said...

So Jack is Jacob's replacement. I am not convinced that the island will in fact be destroyed, so Jack may have a long job in front of him.

I did think it was interesting that Hurley said "I'm just glad it's not me." Does anyone else think it is possible that something will happen to Jack and Hurley will end up with the job after all?

DavidB226Morris said...

I'm going to comment on the latest episode of Lost tomorrow, for the simple reason that, well I didn't see it. End result of a Yankee game being rained out, an obligation to another TV show, and a couple of primaries..

Instead, I would like to raise a question because I'm working on something, and I would appreciate the input.

If any of you have been looking at my blog (and I'm going to make the assumption that you haven't because it's still really new) I have been trying to determine a list of the 50 greatest episodes of TV that have been aired in the last 20 years, which is roughly how long I've been watching TV

Long story short, I've finally made it to the top fifteen (I intend to post the next five this week) but I into to put one episode of Lost in the top ten.(I could, of course, post more than one episode per series, but I want to give each show the same bite at the apple. Fair is fair)

Now, I have a pretty good idea which episode I'm going to pick (I'm not even going to hint at it here, though but I wanted to raise the question with you, the heroes. We've gone through nearly a hundred and twenty hours of TV, and even though we haven't seen the (sob-sob-sob) last episode yet, there are a lot of truly ground-breaking, mind-bending, earth shattering episodes among the last six years, and I'd like to hear what some people think.

We won't have a chance to debate the mysteries of Lost for much longer, and as much as I don't want to admit, my opinion of the whole series will probably shift dramatacally no matter what happens Sunday Night. So before the deluge, I ask my fellow castaway, which episodes gave you the most real pleasure.

I should add that all episodes are created equal.You want to say you liked Stranger in a Strange Land, I won't run away. After all, as we've seen this season, lists are everything.

This week I'll be making seperate posts as to my picks for Emmy nominations (we're at the end of the season) and some of them will include all those people we've come to know and love. (If this were a just world, Matthew Fox would have at least been nominated once by now) Stay tuned.

Gracie said...

Just generally speaking or asking:

1. How long ago did I say that these people were brought here because they were all miserable and not very likeable people from the start? I did say that if everyone recalls. It's nice to know that once in a while, I do think clearly and hit the nail on the head.

2. And Ben is going to end up with Alex and Rousseau if the sideways world comes to be! Yes!! We knew that!

3. Worst death, IMHO, of any Lost character of any importance? Without a doubt, Richard. If I recall correctly, he has no life at all in the flash-sideways. Is that correct? Then again, was he actually dead? Can he be killed by MIB when Jacob gave him eternal life? Hmmmmm.

4. Ana Lucia is bad in the sideways world? Taking a pay off? Was she ever good?

5. How many times can Jack cut his neck without knowing that he did or how he did?

6. Why does physical punishment (Desmond beating on Ben) seem to work for some, but for others it appears as though a kick in the teeth still won't do the job? That is curious.

7. Equally curious is why Miles got all "wonky" around the grave yet never told Ben what he picked up from Alex? Nice of Richard to have buried her for Ben. Does that mean he also buried Danielle and Karl?

8. I don't understand, and I'm hoping Nikki does, why Jacob sees that his existence will end with the fire. But seeing it through with what he says, doesn't everyone see that with all these Candidates still running around, Jacob is acting very prematurely with Jack? Does a Candidate lose his protection once Jack is enthroned? I still do not see Jack living until the end (or The End). However, I've always said that I could be wrong, and if I am, I wonder if it's optional that Kate could stay with him?? For that matter, could they all elect to stay with him if they can all stay alive?? Just curious, but wondering what everyone else thinks along these lines. And as of right now, they really don't have a ride to get anywhere else.

9. Kate is back in play! If you want it, you can have it! (If Kate was given leeway because she became a mother, what does that say about Claire's chances with Aaron as far as Jacob is concerned? Anything?)

10. If the cave is Jacob's, what's the point in the lighthouse except to follow everyone? Gives a whole new meaning to the idea of stalking, doesn't it? Why two locations?

11. Is there some significance to the red flowers growing around Jacob's fire pit? I do recall them growing at the Orchid.

Gracie said...

Heads Up: To anyone who didn't see this previously but might want to watch it: Tomorrow night (Wednesday) on Dinner: Impossible, the chef must create an impossible dinner for the cast and crew of Lost. I believe the "Impossible" part of this is that he has to cook it with the same things they would have to work with as survivors of a plane crash, but that's just what I thought from watching the ad. I did see the advertisement for this, and Hurley and Richard are on it although I don't know who else could/would be. It just sounds fun to me. Check your local listings for time and channel in your area. You're looking for a listing for Dinner: Impossible on the Food Network.

Rainier said...

@ DavidB226Morris:

2 spring to mind for me: "The Looking Glass (both parts), and "The Variable."

Zari said...

@Rainier: ...The relevant part of this here is that the ST and the OT can co-exist just fine, provided that there is no external observer. The concept of an external observer could be extended to include anyone with intimate knowledge of both timelines, ...

Could this be Hurley?

@Rainier: I did think it was interesting that Hurley said "I'm just glad it's not me." Does anyone else think it is possible that something will happen to Jack and Hurley will end up with the job after all?

Yes! This wouldn’t surprise me at all. Thank you for your thoughtful explanations. ;)

Word Verf: bacri : Jean Pierre or Nicolas – votre choix!

Teebore said...

Well, that was a lot more straightfoward. I'm with Blam: that scene around the fire did a lotto make me feel better about the potential resolution.

Interesting that Jack landed on the island so close to the source.

I definitely think Ben is playing Smokey to some end. He's smart enoughto know he can't take care of Smokey himself. That said, shooting Widmore seemed very much in character.

The Widmore explanation: you know, it was simple, but I liked it. It perfectly reconciled the evilWidmore we all know with the seemingly more benevolent one from this season.

Similarly, the Kate crossed off explanation was elegant inits simplicity. I like the idea that a candidate can be crossed off for variety of reasons.

(Also, I've always assumed the names in the caves were the list, and the names in the light house was that list transposed so Jacob knew where to turn the dial to see the candidates.)

More later...

A Frustrated Writer said...

Wow. I actually loved this episode, and it answered a lot of the important questions that I had. Plus, it had more snappy dialogue than the past three episodes combined!

Hilarity:

After Jack tries so hard to bond with Kate by stitching her up, (anyone else notice that as a reference to the pilot?) she goes off and cuddles up to Sawyer. Ouch.
Anyway, Jack walks up to the group with his "I'm jealous and am currently holding in tears" face and says

"We should really get going."


After Locke finds Ben, they have a pretty awesome conversation.

Ben: Can I offer you a glass of lemonade?

Locke: I need you to kill some people, Ben.

Ben: Widmore's in my closet. (With a gun. Better use the code word! It's the man from Tallahassee.)

Alex: Dr. Linus, you've got one hand. You look like Napoleon.
Ben: Good point.

Roussou: Then I guess we'll have to kidnap you!

Locke: Stay out here. You don't wanna see this.
Ben: I wanna see it.

Widmore: I'm not saying any more in front of him.
Ben: *Shuffles around by the door*

After Ben shoots Widmore...
Locke: No harm done.
Ben: Did you say there were other people to kill??

Jack: I think you're mistaking coincidence for fate.

Ana Lucia: Do I know you, Tubby?

Ben hides C4 behind his polo-shirts. Niiice and secure there, Linus.

Plot-changing:

Jacob: Come and sit down and I'll tell you what they died for. I'll tell you why I chose them and why I chose you. And then I'll tell you everything you need to know about protecting this island.

Hell yes!

Randomness:

When Hurley asked Sawyer if he could see Jacob, I remembered back in season two...

Sawyer: You mean that big-ass horse standing in the middle of the jungle?

I'm not going to bother mentioning anything else, you basically covered the other major things. I hate getting LOST an hour after everyone else... :(

Susan said...

Gracie thanks for the heads-up on Dinner Impossible, I forgot to mention it. This is one of my favorite shows, and when I learned they were doing a Lost episode, I was thrilled!

It will be on 10pm and 1am in the eastern time zone on the Food Network. I've seen Richard and Hurley in the previews, but it's really hard to see who else is going to be there. They did get a good turnout of cast when Ace of Cakes did a Lost episode to celebrate the 100th episode last season.

Rainier said...

@Gracie: How long ago did I say that these people were brought here because they were all miserable and not very likeable people from the start? I did say that if everyone recalls. It's nice to know that once in a while, I do think clearly and hit the nail on the head.

Yes, they were all unhappy, but I ask again - how much of this was a consequence of being candidates? Consider the Sideways World. This may be a chicken-and-egg question...Also, I quite liked some of them, even from the beginning. Whether I was "supposed to" or not, I found them to be likable and sympathetic characters.

Ana Lucia is bad in the sideways world? Taking a pay off? Was she ever good?

I never saw Ana Lucia as 'bad' in the OT. Damaged, yes - badly. But she was not a bad person, nor even necessarily a bad cop.

I don't understand, and I'm hoping Nikki does, why Jacob sees that his existence will end with the fire. But seeing it through with what he says, doesn't everyone see that with all these Candidates still running around, Jacob is acting very prematurely with Jack? Does a Candidate lose his protection once Jack is enthroned? I still do not see Jack living until the end (or The End). However, I've always said that I could be wrong, and if I am, I wonder if it's optional that Kate could stay with him?? For that matter, could they all elect to stay with him if they can all stay alive?? Just curious, but wondering what everyone else thinks along these lines. And as of right now, they really don't have a ride to get anywhere else.

I think the business with the ashes was so that Jacob could set things up so that his replacement would be in place and he could move on. That simple.

I don't necessarily see Jack lasting until the end either, and do not think that the other candidates necessarily lose their protection anyway. They could still be potential replacements for Jack. I think it may well be that any who survive may well have to stay with Jack; they have no means of leaving, as you said.

Is there some significance to the red flowers growing around Jacob's fire pit? I do recall them growing at the Orchid.

Red flowers are generally associated with death. Jacob is already dead, but is also leaving the world altogether now (or so it would seem).

Gracie said...

Have you guys ever done a favorite line from each blogger from Lost?

My favorite is Sawyer's way of saying "Son of a bitch", which kind of takes itself out of the running because only Sawyer says that. So an example would be: Mine may not be the most famous, but I've always liked it when just about everyone said it, and that's "Try me."

Convergence said...

Last week's episode frustrated me. This one more than made up for it. It was kick-ass in so many ways. I really love the answers, the humor, and the fact that Ben is back!

Maybe it's just me, but I see humor even in subtle things. For example, for weeks we have been talking about the "bleed-through" from the Island world to the AU. In this episode, Jack is viewing his re-opened neck cut in the mirror, bleeding through. And Ben is beaten until he too bleeds. I just think the writers mean this intentionally in a clever, subtle way. The Island is literally bleeding through.

Rainier, I completely agree about Jack and Hurley, for the exact same reason you did. The fact Hurley says "glad it wasn't me" made me immediately think, "Hmmm, this show so frequently sends twists and turns our way, maybe we shouldn't bank on the assumption Jack is the dude just because he volunteered. Maybe Flocke will kill Jack, and Hurley will have to take on the role."

Why did Little Jacob steal the ashes from Hurley?

Mmmmm, Alex looked more gorgeous than ever. If ever there was an example of the sum more than the parts, she is it. Her beauty should not work but it does, it does, magnificently.

Anybody wonder if maybe the only way black smoke will ever be killed is if he is countered with ... white smoke at some point? Could one of the Losties go down the light-water rabbit hole and come roaring out as restorative, good souled white smoke instead of black?

WV - grayse: The French spelling for a frequent blog poster to Nikki's blog.

The Question Mark said...

@DAVIDB226MORRIS:

If I had to pick, my Top 5 fave episodes of LOST would be:

5-Walkabout
4-Through the Looking Glass
3-...In Translation
2-The Constant
1-Ab Aeterno

Hope this helps! Good luck with the list! I'm actually in the middle of compiling 2 lists myself, one of my Top 20 Favourite Cartoons, the other my Top 100 Favourite Villains. I hope to reveal them both on the weekly online Podcast that I do. It's tough, though!

The Question Mark said...

@DAVIDB226MORRIS:

Also, if you're looking for a good Simpsons episode for your list, may I suggest "You Only Move Twice"? that's the infamous ep where Homer starts working for the supervillain Hank Scorpio.

Rainier said...

@Convergence: Why did Little Jacob steal the ashes from Hurley?

I think it was so that his older self (and I believe they are two manifestations of the same being) could use them in whatever witchy thing he did with the fire so that when it burns out, he can leave.

Anybody wonder if maybe the only way black smoke will ever be killed is if he is countered with ... white smoke at some point? Could one of the Losties go down the light-water rabbit hole and come roaring out as restorative, good souled white smoke instead of black?

This is an excellent idea! It plays nicely off of the 'two sides...' concept. Maybe it would then be like matter and antimatter coming together and annihilate them both. I nominate Jack...

VW: ovitis - an egg infection.

TM Lawrence said...

Zoe got lizzed...brutal justice!

Widmore's exploitation reign ends.
If Ben can kill Charles, what happened to The Rules?

Timmy, I mean Desmond, was rescued from the well. Who is Lassie? Rosenard?

Did Richard get smoked or only tossed?

What will happen if Desmond in LA X awakens Rousseau? No more Coq au vin, I'm betting,

Finally, note that Kate is the only one without a gig that matters in LA X. I'm still betting that Kate will replace Jacob and that Jack's holy draught will come to naught.

Nurse Brian said...

So this is a college student taking a few minutes after watching Lost and a break from studying for my last final!

(Also, thanks for the well wishes everyone!)

@Nikki: You're DEFINITELY not alone with the whole hearing Sawyer saying "FLocke"! And that "previously on..." recap. I totally started feeling the waterworks again!

RE: Sideways Desmond - Did, did we step into some sort of Ocean's Eleven plot? This guy has got to have one miraculous scheming mind to scoop these guys up! I likened his actions to checkers, where all of his opponent's pieces were PERFECTLY lined up... and he was able to jump Ben, Sayid, Kate, and Sawyer in one fell swoop.

RE: Zoe - PERFECT. Absolutely PERFECT. In retrospect of wanting her horribly and magnificently dead, a simple nick of the neck will suffice quite nicely.

RE: Richard - Here goes my Looney Toons mind again!!! When Smokey knocked Richard through the air, I could have SWORN I heard something along the lines of a[n American] Football punt. AND.... I was half expecting Ben to put his hands up like a referee signaling "Field Goal"! [I'm horrible]

RE: Rousseau - She cleans up quite nicely, doesn't she?! I'd totally let it go if her hair was still very unkempt in the sideways world. "Oooh, she's the crazy cat lady mom."

Okay guys, back to studying for me! Catch you guys in a couple of days!

P.S. @Blam: your "womb with a view" line from last weeks post? CLASSIC. Oh boy, did I ever ruin my screen and keyboard with coffee! You sir have a mighty awesome talent!

Ambivalentman said...

I'm pretty sure Richard is not dead. We didn't see his body. Besides, I doubt Darlton would give us the lovely "Ab Aeterno" just so they could give us a Richard death scene about as anti-climatic as Ana-Lucia and Libby's.

Richard still has a part to play.

In other LOST news: this was one of the top 3 episodes of this season, easily. They managed to ratchet up the pacing without losing any characterization. We got a few iconic moments (Jack's acceptance of protectorship, Ben's murder of Widmore), some great answers, and the set-up for what is sure to be a mind-blowing finale. I'm so impressed right now.

Couple thoughts:

Where is Miles? Did he go into the secret cave?

Richard is SO not dead (I said it before, but I'll say it again).

How did Desmond escape the well? Sayid told Jack Desmond was in the well, which seems to imply that Desmond got out via the help of someone else.

Didn't Ben and Widmore have "rules" pertaining to killing each other? I could've sworn I remember this from "The Shape of Things to Come."

I think Ben is playing the Smoke Monster, especially now that he knows the Island is going to be destroyed anyway.

I'm beginning to think the Monster is successful in destroying the Island because of the opening scene of the season. Maybe the Sideways characters are supposed to restore the Island somehow in order to reignite the mysterious Island light.

More on my blog later. www.pop-culture-pundit.blogspot.com. Currently, I'm in the middle of my series of LOST top 10 lists. Today's list: Minor characters.

Gracie said...

Blam said: "I must say that the scene by the campfire went a long way towards making me feel better about how this is all wrapping up.

Blam you're not kidding! Last week I had SO many questions! This week I have more answers than I expected to have, and I feel as ready for the ending as I'm ever going to be. Sad, but true. (If in fact I really did say that, I lied. I am so not ready for this show to actually end. It can end for this season, but I'll be ready to go again in the fall. How very sad that's not gonna happen for any of us.)

JS said: "Ben must be conning FLocke. Particularly since Smokey’s promise of having the island is null and void if he destroys it – duh. But he sure did enjoy giving up Widmore. I got upset when Jack drank the enchanted water. I don’t want him to have Jacob’s job, it is so lonely and awful. But since the island will be destroyed, and he has to kill Smokey, I don’t think he will have the job for long. But it was weird feeling like that."

I couldn't agree more. Ben is up to something. Does anyone know what it is? What's the con this time? As to the end of your comment: Even if he destroys MIB, someone still has to stay to guard it, right? Mom was guarding it before we had Smokey, or I should say, before Jacob let Smokey out of the cave. All bets are off on my end though, if it truly is underwater. Then the world is in deep hurts, or it's all good, and Jack can go home too.

Benny said: "What if the sunken island in fact protects the source/light from being reached by anyone? Protected forever and there is no continuous need for a protector/Jacob!

I wondered that, because I'm ever mindful that they showed us that, and that Juliet said, "It worked." But could it really be that simple? Could Jack and the others be that lucky? Remains to be seen on Sunday. I am hopeful. As is, nobody is going anywhere for awhile unless the Elizabeth is still parked somewhere close. That's the only way off right now, that we know of.

Susan said, "I want to know more about what Des is doing. I was a little disappointed in the explanation for Widmore's sudden conversion to the good guys' side. "Jacob visited me." Why didn't we get to see it?
"


Me: Methinks that Desmond has been a very busy little boy, and Eloise is not going to be happy. (Can everyone just hear her tsking already?) That's too bad. Life just snuck right in there and got in the way. As for Widmore, he may have been visited, but I sincerely doubt that he ever converted. He just figured out how to use the information to his best advantage.

Rainier said: "@Gracie: I don't know about the universe but I sure heard you scream (with joy) when Widmore bought it! Not too long after I heard Nikki's scream when Zoe's throat was cut..."

Are you sure that wasn't a combination of me and Nikki cause I screamed "Yes" pretty damn loudly? I've sort of apologized to everyone, but on the other hand, didn't people expect it? If windows were open tonight, I've no doubt people everywhere heard me. And Nikki! LOL

JS said: "Eloise Hawking and how she became the time cop."

I'm also very interested in how this is going to wrap up. It appears she is the time cop, and I'm sure she will be dripping in anger at how Desmond has stepped out of line. Her reaction to his actions, and the results of both should make for fine Must-See TV. Also interested in what she has to say regarding the "death" of her son's father??

While the essence of Smokey is derived from it's association with MIB and Locke, it's physical side is all it's own. I'm not sure how to kill it, although JS's idea of electricity certainly sounds feasible.

WV: boves. If doves are birds, why not just call them boves?

Gracie said...

@Benny said, "They are different entities. Locke's body coexisted at the same time as the Locke-impersonation. The question would be more relevant if we were talking about two living Lockes.

They are two separate entities, but at the time they coexisted one was dead. So how is this pertinent if a living (real) Locke met up with an impersonation (dead FLocke) who borrowed/stole his body? I am, sort of, talking about two living Locke's. IF the real Locke was taken back to the island, and ran into Smokey while he was running around the island in his FLocke form.....how could that be? Wouldn't the FLocke form have to default? Understand me, I don't think it's going to happen, but I want very much to understand what it would mean if it did. Pardon my ignorance but I don't understand this at all: "then we are talking traveling across universes, not time." All I'm doing is leaving a FLocke where he is now, and returning Locke (the real one in the sideways timeline) to the island. I will read your paragraph number three to Spouse (along with your following post), but as far as I'm concerned it may as well have been written in Greek.

Lauren said: "They were all alone, in one way or another. They all needed something. How did I not come to that conclusion before... I tried every other possibility. Daddy issues, Mommy issues, job issues, blah blah blah. Just awesome."

Actually they weren't completely all alone. For one example: IMHO Jack's mother is way too needy, and she needed him. (I see little difference between her neediness and that of a baby. I have always liked Veronica Hamel, but her neediness with Jack in this show was enough to send me into gag overdrive.) But they were all alone in their miserable little worlds. I did see this, and posted that in their own peculiar ways, none of them were likeable people. Everyone from Hurley, "the fat guy", to Charlie, the drug abuser, to Kate, the fugitive, to Sawyer, the "chain-smoking redneck". There was something wrong with everyone. My exceptions, I think, were Rose and Bernard. Rose has cancer, but that doesn't make her unlikable. Bernard seems completely likeable to me. But I'm sure if someone looked hard enough, there would be something to NOT like. Maybe he has a hairy back? Or he picks his nose? Jacob's implication is that there IS something wrong with all of these people in HIS humble opinion.

Gracie said...

Rainier and Benny: If you two know what the heck you're talking about, well, then you've done your reading in areas which I've not come close to. As I told Benny, I will read these to Spouse, who has seen a lot of these movies. Then, if he can sit down and tell me what you guys are talking about in a language and with a purity of heart that he understands I need to grasp this, then I may get it. (Since I've gotten this disorder, he has most kindly, actually sat down and explained things to me as if I'm in kindergarten. It takes an enormous of patience on his part, as well as mine, because we both remember a time when this wouldn't be necessary. If anyone thinks it's easy to do, or have done for them, they are sadly mistaken.) If he doesn't understand it, or cannot relay it to me, I'm just in over my head in this conversation. But it's not over with yet, so wait until I report back in.

Gracie said...

Kotowski said: "Richard's death : not very dramatic, but effective and shows just how dangerous and difficult to kill the MIB is. Richard served his purpose of being a servant to Jacob faithfully (until this season) and refused to serve MIB."

Suddenly Richard could become the wildcard. MIB would think that he had killed Richard possibly not knowing that Richard has Jacob's blessing on immortality. Richard could still be alive, licking his wounds, and back on the screen when we least expect him.

Then Kotowski goes into In-depth analysis starts here: and I think everyone who plans on watching Lost Sunday night should read this and be able to anticipate anything within these paragraphs. I agree with Kotowski that everything is up in the air although we have an abundance of answers. The only thing I would add is: "Although Jack IS the Replacement, will one still be needed at the end, and if it is, will it still be Jack or will Jack need a Replacement much as Mom had to replace MIB with Jacob at the last minute?"

Kotowski said: "Jacob says that they must kill the Monster or else the Monster will eventually find a way to kill them. Jacob could not bring himself to kill his brother, so he threw him into the Cove, since it is "worse than death"...but not quite death!"

I think that when Jacob threw MIB into the cave, he had no clue whatsoever what he was doing. If you go back and watch that again, look at the fear in Jacob's face after the fact when he first hears the roar of the Smoke Monster. He had no idea at all what a "fate worse than death" meant. When the Smoke Monster comes rolling out of that cave, Jacob's face tells a story of it's own, and he falls backwards in fear of what he sees as well as dismay over what he's done to his own brother.

Kotowski: "If Jack and the Candidates are somehow killed by the Monster, is Desmond a "reset button" in Jacob's game?
Yes, I believe that for all of them, in the event that this doesn't pan out as Jacob expected, and it looks like the end of the world, Jacob believes that Desmond will know what he has to do. This will put Desmond's life in danger IMHO. If everything does turn to Desmond, he'd better already know what he has to do, or figure it out fast.

Rufus said...

Okay, to get Ben on his side MIB says that he'll leave him the island when he leaves...then later he says his intention is to destroy the island!!! Wouldn't that be a deal breaker? I think that Ben just may live long enough to amaze the MIB one last time.

Gracie said...

Rainier said: "But in the ST, a number of characters seem to be OK."

To me, without the knowledge that you and Benny (among others) seem to have, it appears that only one of these stories can be true. While they can be blended to a degree, I see no way in any world that Jack can get on an airplane in Sydney single and childless, and when it lands the same day in L.A., he can have a what? Sixteen-year-old or thereabouts? (I don't recall how old David is supposed to be.) You've heard parents say they age really fast? They don't age quite that fast. So if we are to only believe the basics of one storyline, it must be the one in which all the little stories were told, and that is the original timeline. (If not, what was the point in telling all those little stories if they have no basis to the central theme?) There is no David unless it's all explained in a bleed-through that I currently don't understand. And for the sake of people like me, as well as the younger generation that I know is watching this show, I sincerely hope that if it comes to this, they use the same writer who came up with all of Daniel's explanations that were so easy to follow (like a record skipping). Your final line with regards to what extent they "needed the island", I don't think anyone needs the island as badly as Jacob needs them to believe that they needed the island. His belief in this, whether accurate or not, is his salvation. He has to see it the way he does. However, once Jack was there, and left, he DID have to come back or risk complete, everlasting insanity. When I think of this, Sawyer immediately comes to my mind. He far and away surpasses everyone with number of times he could have left the island but for one reason or another, he did not. Without giving it too much thought right this second, it seems that everyone else who wanted to leave and could, did. The sole exception (I believe) is Sawyer, for whatever reason.

mgkoeln said...

There goes my Annie theory :-( I was absolutely convinced, that Zoe would turn out to be Ben's childhood friend saving him from Widmore and having a bunch of Dharma answers with her. Not very likely now...

I didn't even believe Darlton who already said Annie wasn't of further importance. I simply assumed they lied to protect a great story twist. So, maybe their recent statement about having dropped the solution of the outrigger shoot-out as it didn't fit into the story is just the truth as well.

Hope it's gonna be a great finale anyway!

Batcabbage said...

@Blam: I must say that the scene by the campfire went a long way towards making me feel better about how this is all wrapping up.

I gotta say the same. Matter of fact, this whole episode just... I don't know, lifted my spirits, maybe? I feel that there was so much more here than compared to last weeks ep.

Now, I was one of those who liked last week's ep, not loved it, but upon rewatching it (last night, for haiku purposes!), I enjoyed it much more than my first viewing. That said, this week was just fantastic. It's all coming together, and of course it should be, and I quite agree with Nik when she said I think they’ve set the stage PERFECTLY for that finale.

Some thoughts:

Zoe's demise: I started a game of FU ZOE when I saw she was the one in the kitchen. I barked a loud and evil laugh, and cried 'Bout f**kin' time, you Smoke-tastic bastard!' when the deed was done. Although her boobies were quite prominent this episode. Anyone else notice that? No? Just me?

Desmond's bad-assed-ness: @Nik: Holy CRAP, Desmond!!! I didn’t know he had it in him. Of course he did. He's a Scotsman. Scotsmen are AWESOME. HE is AWESOME! BEAT THAT TEACHER AND CALL HIM 'MISTER'!

Super Bran: It immediately reminded me not of cereal, or bowel movements (like it did Nikki), but of the excellent Scottish show Super Gran. Totally random and irrelevant, I know, but it did. Anyone ever see that show? It was great.

@Nik: I ♥ Jack. Me too. Don't tell Batkitty! I've always thought Jack would end up replacing Jacob, and I'm so glad he has.

That's just a few things that come to mind after watching this fantastic episode. I'm gonna go watch it again with an eye towards haiku now. Can't wait for Monday! Well, Sunday for you lot

Anonymous said...

WOW! Great write-up as always! Yesterday I was reading THE RED PYRAMID written by the author of THE LIGHTNING THIEF series-yes, I teach school! It is obviously set in Egypt. Now, there is an exchange where one of the main characters notices that the color red signifies chaos and upheaval. The other, an older Egyptian god, says that is true and black is the color of goodness as in the soil of the Nile is black and produces good. I couldn't help but scream and run for the computer to email my LOST friends what I had just read! Could it be? There were obvious red flowers in the background last night! This would be fantastic!

Gracie said...

Incidentally, I loved this episode. I have to admit that many things we learned during this episode had already been figured out (or guessed at) by someone among us with few exceptions. I had figured that if there were to be something like this reveal, it wasn't coming until Sunday. Having said that, the field is wide open for a 2 1/2 hour finale, and I'm clueless as to how they will fill the time. I also don't want it to just rush by leaving me in the dust. But wherever they are going, I'm ready to go with them in full. I hope it has wonder (and often leaves me in awe), I hope it has excitement, plenty of action, and at least one solid kick to the groin area (as in shocking), hopefully more than one. (Wouldn't that be great if there were several times the viewer said, "Didn't see that one coming"?)
Among my own top ten for the finale, I really hope that (I hear Nikki) love figures prominently (Desmond and Penny, Charlie and Claire, Hurley and Libby, several others), and that hope endures, even if my particular "hope" is incorrect. (If Richard IS alive, let's give him something to start a new beginning with.) But in the last few minutes, although it has to have an ending, I hope we are thrown something that changes how each of us perceive the story, and then brings the show to a classic, timeless, final scene where everyone just sits and stares at the TV without movement for a full minute at least. While I expect some people to be disappointed, it would be a true travesty if everyone is. After this episode, I don't see that happening. (If there is another weather warning in northeast Ohio during the finale that results in either a postponement or an interruption, I'm just going to sit right here in my chair and cry. Spouse and Child will probably join me! I've already thanked all the Gods that this is NOT an election night!)

Random Question: The way I understand the layout for the weekend (for my area anyway), Saturday night ABC is giving us a repeat in full of "The Pilot" episode which is the plane crash and the immediate events that follow. On Sunday at 7:00 they are giving us something called "The Final Journey" which is described as "Reviewing the events of the series; past and present cast members discuss their experiences". This of course is followed by the finale, and Jimmy Kimmel at his regular time.
Is anyone anywhere getting something different? Or did I miss something that I would want to look for more closely? (They are calling this the "Lost Weekend" and I want to make sure I'm covered all the way around.) I'm talking about the TV only in this question though. I'm also well aware that Nikki is doing a live chat following the show, which personally speaking is one hell of a bold move. Girl, you must have nerves of steel!

Kiki said...

Nikki - I was so excited when morose Sawyer referred to Locke as “Flocke,” but upon rewatch I think he said, “If Locke wanted...” and it just sounded like “Flocke.” False alarm.

I know! I had to stop an rewind to listen right away. I was grinning ear to ear just thinking that was what he said!

And your Miles quotes-- he is so great!!

Zoe... my name is Zoe, I’m...” SLICE!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!! Earlier in this episode when Richard and Ben had their guns pointed at her, I was yelling, “SHOOT Who had the Die Zoe Die game? That what I was thinking of!

Loved the episode. Sorry to all those hoping it would not be Jack. . . but it's not over yet. Hurley said he was glad it wasn't him, could this still change in the last 2.5 hrs?

And what was up with the creepy lady voice for next shows promo.?!?!?

Gracie said...

DavidB226Morris said: "So before the deluge, I ask my fellow castaway, which episodes gave you the most real pleasure.

Oh my! Really? You don't ask much, do you? One episode? You mention the most pleasure, but what about the most pain? I've always really loved "Everybody Hates Hugo", where he has to inventory all the food, and he just passes it out at the end, but I'm not sure I'd say that was my very favorite. I liked "Numbers", both parts of "Live Together, Die Alone", "Flashes Before Your Eyes", "Follow The Leader" and I'll just stop there, because I could go on and on. (I'll even admit that "Stranger in a Strange Land" was a weird episode (?) in every way, but I didn't truly hate it! Which reminds me: I guess they've said all they're going to about his tattoos?) If I'm only allowed to pick one, I'm not sure I could without seeing the finale. Actually, I wouldn't want to. That one may be a complete knockout (or a washout?), and make all the others look like spit balls. Which one is your blog, so I can make sure it's on my list, and plan now to go back there when you finish this list? (I hope it contains not only the finale of M*A*S*H, as well as the episode in which Henry Blake dies? I'm not sure either were within the last twenty years. I have no idea when M*A*S*H ended.) From this: "So before the deluge, I ask my fellow castaway, which episodes gave you the most real pleasure.", do I understand correctly that you want us to pick before the finale? Please reply so I fully understand. Oh my!

Believable Emmy nominations IMHO to Matthew Fox, Michael Emerson (although he was under used this season), Terry O'Quinn, Nestor Carbonell (even if only for "Ab Aeterno"), and Josh Holloway (for his performance in "What Kate Does"). I would believe it if Evangeline Lilly got a nod - although not a favorite of mine, she's been particularly good this season, and I find her very believable. I agree that all of these are not gonna happen, but IMHO all are deserving. Each one has truly risen above for this final season.

WV: breasta. He had a tendancy to fondle breasta even when breastb wanted all the attention.

Jessica said...

I am running out the door from work! But Oh My Freaking Guyliner! That was a full tank of awesome! Richard! Desmond, Head of the Super Team! “Because you became a mother.” *SOB*

What a great combination of storylines, character movements, and answers! Straight from the Island Deity’s mouth!

One quick thing I wanted to ask/find out… after Jacob’s statement about it being his fault that MIB is who he is/became who he is... (anger at my inability to take notes while watching with my jaw dropped to the floor) do we still need to question whether or not MIB is actually Smokey or if Smokey existed prior to MIB floating into the magical pool of hope?

Gracie said...

Rainier said: "I did think it was interesting that Hurley said "I'm just glad it's not me." Does anyone else think it is possible that something will happen to Jack and Hurley will end up with the job after all?"

Oh, Rain!!! Over the past week I spent a lot of time on the net and many people seem to think Jack isn't going to make it the same as I've been saying for so long. I can honestly see anyone (!!!!) doing this job except Hurley. Of course, what is the job? We don't know that yet! (How do you include anyone or exclude them when you don't know the job description in full?) But can you picture Hurley trying to recruit when he knows the horrible circumstances that await the people he is responsible for bringing to this island?? His soul is so good and humble and pure! Yes, he would do it, depending on what it is, but could he? I honestly don't know. He would just be beyond devastated to have to be in that position. (Honestly, would the writer's do that to Hurley? OUR Hurley? He's so good to his core! Compared to Hurley, Jacob wouldn't know good if it bit him in the a$$!) Yes, I do think Jack took the job too soon, and if Jacob had a reason for filling the post so soon, I fear it's going to come around again anyway before it's over. I just hope Jack is alive and able to do the incantation and the cup thing to pass the job off. I said in a post from "Across the Sea" that anyone of them would and could do this job if asked, except Hurley. Depending on what the job actually is. Protecting what? (I do believe he could do it all in full measure except the recruitment part of it.) He would do it, but could he? Could he really do that part of it? I just don't know without more information.

Blam said...


This week's installment of me talking back to the television:

Miles: "It's just... I get wonky around dead stuff."
Me: "And thanks so much for sharing everything you've learned."

Ben: "That’s before I realized that it was the one summoning me.”
Me: "Don't be too hard on yourself. It's not like he made you kneel in the mud and shout at a hole in the ground. Oh, wait."

Hurley: "Where've you been?"
Jacob: "Doesn't matter. I'm here now."
Me: "Uh, yeah, it actually does frickin' matter."

Jacob: "We're very close to the end, Hugo."
Me: "Try not to let the fourth wall hit you on its way down."

Jack: "Maybe you're mistaking..."
Me: [raucous anticipatory laughter]

VW: afflu — Virus commonly caught by Matt Damon and Jennifer Garner.

Blam said...


Nikki: ... after this week’s episode, where many of the sideways people are coming together, where Jack has become Jacob’s official successor, where Ben has stepped up his game, where we now know what Smokey is up to... I think they’ve set the stage PERFECTLY for that finale.

I wouldn't quite go that far. 8^)

After this week's episode, I can see how the next episode would be the last one — I'll put it that way. Like I said earlier, that scene with Jacob around the fire and Jack's assumption of Jacob's role was a nice, straightforward propulsion of the primary plot that followed well from last week's episode and the Candidates' recent adventures. I still have the sinking feeling that the finale will leave unaddressed things that I feel should be addressed, however, even if they don't all occur to me while the drama that does unfold is unfolding. (I'm choosing my words carefully with "unaddressed" as opposed to "unanswered"; I think that this fits in better with the concerns of those in my and Teebore's camp, if I may impose on our frequent same-page-ness in this area.)

Nikki: Widmore works on Jacob’s side. Jacob recruited him off-island the same way he recruited Ilana.

I'd be reluctant to sign up for Team Jacob due to the high mortality rate, but then again nobody would be able to warn me about that because all his foot soldiers, emissaries and bodyguards end up dead. "Jacob?" "Hey, Blam. Would you mind coming to the Island?" "Uh... Will I survive?" "Seeing as how I never learned how to lie: Nope. Pretty smart of you to ask, though; they don't usually do that."

Nikki: Manipulative, bad American accent Desmond!!!

Ooh... In the altered timeline, it's not Canadians who are evil, but Americans.

Blam said...


Nikki: I was so excited when morose Sawyer referred to Locke as “Flocke,” but upon rewatch I think he said, “If Locke wanted...” and it just sounded like “Flocke.”

I heard that too but almost immediately realized that it must've been the words running together.

Nikki: Jacob saying he crossed Kate off because she was a mother.

"And you became a mother the real way, Kate: by stealing your baby. You and my momz would get on famously."

Nikki: Did anyone else notice that at breakfast they were all eating a cereal called “Super Bran”?

Family Size Super Bran, at that, which I took as possible commentary on the fledgling family unit of Jack, Bonus Jonas Shephard, and Hot Pregnant Aunt Claire. The family's about to get bigger, with David's mom showing up at the concert and Desmond bringing Kate there to dazzle Jack into flashing. Except that Jack and Kate already crossed paths on the plane, so clearly Desmond will have to beat him up in front of her — but that won't work either. And just when Desmond's at his wit's end, Jim Ford shows up on Kate's trail, his eyes meet Jack's...

Nikki: One nitpick: I doubt the students would be welcoming back a substitute teacher like he was some long-term prof who has shaped them for years.

I thought that was weird, too, not so much because he wouldn't have made an impression on the kids but because having a substitute-teaching job that lasts this long is unusual, and you have to figure that there was a substitute substitute while Locke was in the hosptial. That said, I recall having a couple of substitutes who were around for extended periods of time.

Nikki: Ben’s safe has a fridge light in it that comes on when he opens the door! ;)

Don't they all?

Nikki: What does that red gash on the side of Jack’s neck signify?

The Island universe is just a molecule in the pustule on Real Jack's neck!

Nikki: [C]ould you imagine Rousseau and Ben hooking up???

I've been trying so, so, so hard not to.

Nikki: “You’ve got one hand. You look like Napoleon.” That line would have been funny if they hadn’t already beaten home the BEN IS NAPOLEON idea in “Dr. Linus,” ...

I hope the sling doesn't hurt his Elba...

Gillian Whitfield said...

I loved, loved, loved, loved, LOVED this episode! My new favourite episode of the series.

@Gracie re: Zoe/Widmore deaths: I thought those screams were mine? More for Zoe than Widmore. Man, I hated her.

Jack was actually . . . likable in this episode. I kind of figured that he would be the new Jacob. He seems the most suited for it.

OK . . . next week . . . I mean SUNDAY, I think we're finally going to see David's mom. I think it might be Juliet. And then she and Sawyer will meet and she'll say the whole "We could get coffee sometime and go Dutch" thing to him.

OMGWTF Richard! He had better not be dead. He's too good-looking to be dead. And I figured if he did die, it would be with his wife there.

LOVED the scene between Hurley and Ana Lucia. "Nice not knowing you" = LOL!

And . . . what was up with that preview for next week? To quote Nikki's brother, it sounded like E.T.'s mother.

Jacob: "We're getting close to the end". Gillian: "Yeah, no doubt. We only have 5 days left". I loved that little in-joke.

SonshineMusic i.e. Rebecca T. said...

I absolutely LOVED this episode. I really do think that they have set it up to end well. End like everyone wants? No, but to end? Yes.

Besides, how could I NOT love an episode where both Ben and Miles finally get some lines?! :D

@Zari: Word Verf: waile : and gnashe my teethe if one haire on Hurley's deare heade is harmed.

Amen!

@Gracie Does that mean he also buried Danielle and Karl?

They got buried by someone, because that was one of the first times that Miles showed off his talent - when they came across their shallow graves in the jungle.



@Nikki: Widmore brought Desmond to the island because he was immune to the electromagnetism. Still not clear why he needed that.

They called Desmond a "failsafe". This makes me think of the failsafe key that was used to destroy the hatch. I think Desmond is the key to destroy the Island while MiB is still trapped on it - but only if there was no candidate left to take Jacob's place. Maybe it has something to do with the Orchid Station? Or the FDW?

@Joan: Why two locations? Why different numbers at different sites? Hmmm. I don't understand...he crossed off Kate but she can still have the job...so, why cross her off?

I think that the Lighthouse was what he used to see the candidates, while the cave was the actual list. And I think he crossed Kate off, not because she might say no, but because she was otherwise occupied as a mother and therefore unable to take over the Island - needed more with Aaron than here.



Ben and Widmore!! IN THE SAME ROOM!!

As soon as it went to the commercial after that, my sis and I looked at each other and said nearly simultaneously - "OOh, Nikki's happy!" haha :D

“Super Bran”? Did anyone else laugh as hard as I did at that revelation?

Oh yes! *snickers* I was like - Super Bran! The Super Cereal for Super Heroes! :P

hope Eloise and Daniel and Penneh are among the guests.

I was assuming (with no evidence to support it) that Daniel will be there to play in the concert - and therefore so will Eloise and Penneh :)

@Kiki: Who had the Die Zoe Die game? That what I was thinking of!

hahahaha! That was me - my exact notes at that moment were: DIE ZOE D- oh. snap.
:)

Back in a minute with my actual thoughts...

VW: medeck - I like watchin' the sunrise from medeck.

VW2: gardvent - something used to keep your garden well ventilated

Gracie said...

Rainier said: "@DavidB226Morris: 2 spring to mind for me: "The Looking Glass (both parts), and "The Variable."

Mine too, which is already lengthy, I know!

Teebore said: "I definitely think Ben is playing Smokey to some end. He's smart enough to know he can't take care of Smokey himself."

I agree, so he's running a con on FLocke/Smokey for some reason. Could Ben have picked up some information during his time as leader that could be useful to everyone now? Given what has been said or known: He knew the reason for the barriers went beyond the Hostiles, IMHO. He thought he was summoning Smokey when Smokey was actually summoning him. (Does that sentence strike anyone else as, well, just strange all by itself? I mean beyond the obvious.) I wonder if there is a way to summon Smokey, and then trap it down where that drain is we've seen before at the bottom of Ben's closet floor? Maybe in the drain itself, and then blow it all to hell?) If he never had an audience with Jacob, would he have any reason to know that Smokey contained within it the knowledge once held by a man? In his time, that would have been MIB. Now it would be Locke's knowledge (and maybe MIB's knowledge as well if Smokey can keep what he learned from one when he changes over). Would Ben know that? Also Ben is too smart to let it slide that FLocke said Ben should do whatever FLocke wants because when FLocke leaves Ben will be in control again. Then FLocke says he's going to destroy the island. Does FLocke think Ben just missed that connection? FLocke wants Ben to think he's going to leave him in charge of protecting......what? Nothing? Do we know anything that Ben already said to anyone along the way (maybe just in passing) that Locke (or FLocke) would not know that Ben knew? This whole line of thought seems pretty important to me.

Donna S. said...

Okay, I watched the episode late last night, then went to bed. Don't have time right now to read, so...a couple of thoughts I'm having...

1) Of all our castaways, only HURLEY was not shown in the flash-sideways. Was he? Am I forgetting a scene or something? Because I don't recall seeing him, but we did see everybody else (who is still alive...well, we saw Sayid, and he's dead...but anyway!) So, Jack's already been "anointed" as the successor to Jacob...what, if anything, does this mean for Hurley?

2) Jacob tells Kate she was crossed off his list because SHE BECAME A MOTHER. Okay...by TAKING SOMEBODYS ELSE'S BABY??? Uh, Jacob...that's NOT how you're supposed to "become a mother", ya know. Oh, right, that's how YOUR mom did it! And, the "B" part of this question...what about Jack? He is now a father (in sideways land)...why doesn't HE get crossed off the list? Only mothers get special treatment?

SO MANY QUESTIONS, SO LITTLE TIME (LEFT!)

Al Hsu said...

I think Jack's son's mother has to be Juliet. She's just about the only major character who has not yet appeared in the sideways universe.

I was not totally convinced by Jacob's explanation that he brought them there because they were all flawed, etc. He started interacting with folks long before their lives got to their season 1 stories, such as when Kate and Sawyer were kids. Did his touch somehow affect their later life paths? And I'm still not clear on how Jacob got all his intended candidates onto Oceanic 815.

And I've been thinking since the season 5 finale and season 6 LA X that somebody is going to try to destroy or sink the island. We've already seen that the island can time travel and move. Maybe instead of being destroyed, in the endgame the island gets transported to another time or place (or sideways universe!) and Smokey is permanently exiled.

SonshineMusic i.e. Rebecca T. said...

I'm not sure I understand the point to Desmond faking Jack out about the coffin? How would that help get him anywhere?

And I am sorry, but Des continues to completely wig me out. He's like Eloise creepy!

Ben just can't help but get beaten up everywhere he goes, can he?

Oh Miles, you were in rare form last night - how I have missed thee. Loved in particular:
"I lived in these houses 30 years before you did...also known as last week."
"I get wonky around dead things."
"What's that? A secreter room?"

Ben to Widmore: What purpose?
Me: Yes, what purpose!?
Lost writers: hahahahaha

So much great dialog in this episode! So Much!

Sawyer: If Locke wanted Desmond dead why didn't he just do it himself?
Jack: Who knows maybe it's one of his rules.
bwa hahahaha!

Ben: Can I get you a glass of lemonade?
*snort*

Danielle: Even if we have to kidnap you.
Total LOL moment. and I personally thought the two of them were cute together.

When they showed the secreter room my dad said, maybe that's what they have to use to get rid of the monster. Naomi and I looked at each other contemplating this, but then all I could think was, "Flush the monster down the toilet!" and we lost it.

Jack to Locke: I'm sorry, are you saying I sent this man to run you down?
hahahahahahahahaha!

And we finally discover why Jack was carrying that backpack around for the entire season - so he would have a cup to drink the magical water.

Oh goodness. I really want to watch that again - maybe when it shows up online later.

Jesse said...

I thought Sawyer staring out at the ocean was also a throwback to the pilot. The background score was the same as the scene where he's sitting on the wing, reading the letter to Anthony Cooper and smoking a cigarette.

Excellent recap as always!

redeem147 said...

Can read the comments - work time. But was anyone else yelling at Flocke "They're in the closet!"?

I think the water made Jack immortal, so he could guard the Island for ever if it took that.

I thought the way Ben looked at Rousseau was "Hey, is that hot chick coming on to me?"

Maybe neither world is real. Maybe there's a third reality of neck cuts.

Al Hsu said...

Donna - Hurley appeared in the sideways universe in "Everybody Loves Hugo," season 6 episode 12, (re)connecting with Libby.

SonshineMusic i.e. Rebecca T. said...

@Donna S: Of all our castaways, only HURLEY was not shown in the flash-sideways.

He was the one that met Des, Sayid and Kate with the cars, so we did see him :)

Batcabbage said...

@Donna S.: SHE BECAME A MOTHER. Okay...by TAKING SOMEBODYS ELSE'S BABY??? Uh, Jacob...that's NOT how you're supposed to "become a mother", ya know.

I'm a dyed in the wool Kate-hater, every since season 3, but I feel myself compelled to defend her here. Claire was gone, nowhere to be found, off with the Christian incarnation of Smokey. They couldn't find her. Kate stepped in, and did the right thing and became Aaron's mother. Just sayin'.

Blam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Blam said...


I really thought that the scene in the secret closet would go like this: Ben asks if he can off Widmore personally, Smokey Locke hands Ben the knife, and Ben stabs Smokey Locke. He's either playing a longer con than I'd figured, and still ticked enough at Jacob in the bargain to feel fine exacting vengeance against Widmore, or he's really 100% out for himself again.

Benny: sometimes we go overboard

... and leave Claire behind, even though she just gave up the only life she's had for three years to feel embraced by us again. 8^) Where is Island Claire, anyhow?

Benny: Sneaky Desmond calling Jack about the missing coffin.

Um... Wait. If everyone's gonna meet up at the museum piano recital, why does Desmond need to lure Jack somewhere?

Benny: Desmond is a measure of last resort, a failsafe.

"Are you the Gatekeeper? I am the Keymaster..."

VW: sioused — All wet from a Native Dakotan rain dance.



asiancolossus said...

The episode took my breath away.
I love it when we see old beloved characters, I was REALLY hoping to see Juliet as Jack's ex, but I'm sure that will come next week, whether it be with Sawyer and having coffee or as Jack's ex. Rousseau looks stunning when not a crazy lunatic, dontcha think? And definitely her line about "kidnapping Ben" for me was the wink wink line of the night!

I love how Jack has come full circle and the only thing that would carry a more religious connotation with Jacob anointing Jack as the chosen one was to have him drink from a goblet!

Although I liked seeing Desmond, he does seem to have a bit of a God complex in that whatever he does, no matter how brutal is "for the greater good". That being said, I'm sure Nikki was somewhat excited seeing "manly" Desmond do his thing LOL

I was so touched by the Jack Sawyer interaction. I was sad for Sawyer's realization of his role in the death of his friends, but also was satisfied at his "comeuppance" for doing the exact same thing he accused Jack of doing to get Juliet killed. Not batting a thousand, either of you, in saving your friends are you? LOL

Questions:
- when we saw Ben and Widmore have their last conversation in Widmore's bedroom, it was implied that they could not kill each other, why such an abrupt change? Are the "rules" no longer in play? Widmore's demise came so quickly, I was a bit surprised by that. Although LOVED Ben's line that he does not get to save his daughter!
- what is Jacks neck bruise? as I recall, we haven't seen any injury like that in the island life yet, does that mean he is going to be stabbed in the finale?
- why did Jacob show himself NOW to everyone else? couldn't he have saved people a lot of trouble and also likely deaths if he came clean at the beginning instead of playing hide and seek?
- has Ben finally seen what evil MIB really is? He promised Ben the run of the island. What island? if the island gets blown up...of course based on what we saw in the FS in the premier, we can imply that somehow the island IS submerged. Is that when the two universes finally merge?

Can you guys explain my feeling of dread and anticipation? I want Sunday to come SO bad, yet I'm dreading it. How DO you let go of a show that has become more than just a show, but has touched my soul (sorry for being overly dramatic!). It is a shame that a show like this will likely never come again in my lifetime. Are all of us here destined to become strangers after all of this? I'll really miss this family interaction as a part of my Lost experience. Will Nikki still agree to be our Constant???? Will we be Lost souls forever? Sigh....

Blam said...


The Question Mark: If Richard is dead from that Smokey attack I don't know what I'm gonna do with myself :(

With Jeff Fahey and Nestor Carbonell made regulars this season, it's pretty strange for them to have gone out the way they did if they did indeed go out that way. I'm not looking for epic or profound death scenes, necessarily, but confirmation would be appropriate if only because so many viewers are wondering if they'll be back — not mourning or cursing the producers for the characters' ignoble ends but genuinely wondering, which is just sloppy storytelling.

Gracie: IF Locke (the living one) is taken back to the island, and then ends up face to face with FLocke ... Doesn't one of them, Locke or FLocke, need to just go poof? ... Even if you don't believe it will happen here on Lost, in time travel, as you understand it, if Locke were taken back to the island, and met up with FLocke, how would that work out?

You won't like this, but my answer is "it depends". Really. The writers pretty much get to set their own rules on whether the same thing (body, object, soul) can exist in duplicate form in the same place at the same time; I've seen it work both ways, and there's probably science to support both options. I should point out, by the way, that the potential paradox doesn't exist between Alternate Locke and Smokey Locke but Alternate Locke and Original Locke's dead body, because Smokey is merely shapeshifted or whatever into Locke's form; we already have dead Locke's body coexisting on the Island with Smokey Locke, non-paradoxically, since only one of them is (as far as we know) actually genetically Locke. Should the ground rules of Lost prevent Alternate Locke from traveling to the present-day Island from the past or a parallel timeline (wherever the flashes are taking place) bodily, of course, he could maybe animate dead Original Locke's corpse, although since it's been buried that would just get him a mouthful of sand like spider-bitten Nikki & Paulo. 8^)

Nikki Stafford said...

Blam: I must say that the scene by the campfire went a long way towards making me feel better about how this is all wrapping up.

Same here. They covered a lot of ground, making me feel better about the finale not being rushed.

Nikki Stafford said...

JS: Speaking of Widmore, that was kind of dumb of them to just stand in the closet. I thought they were going in the secreter room tunnel?

You know, I have to agree. The only thing that would have made the two of them look even more ridiculous is if they'd been standing in the corner with lampshades on their heads. ;)

Nikki Stafford said...

Gracie: IF Locke (the living one) is taken back to the island, and then ends up face to face with FLocke, what happens?

That would presuppose that everyone in the sideways world is going to the island... and I'm not sure why they'd do that. It's an intriguing premise and one I would enjoy watching play out, but it's not clear why that would happen.

I think this is one of those questions where we simply have to wait and see what would happen IF that would ever happen, and since we only have 4 more days, we don't have to wait long to find out! :)

Nikki Stafford said...

Loretta: You know, I always loved Jack, even when others complained that he got douchey (I wouldn't go that far) and whiny (okay, I'll concede on that point). He made some mistakes, but his intentions always seemed noble--more noble, in face than most of the other characters--and he just hadn't completed his journey yet. Now he has, and my heart aches for the possibility that he might have to stand guard over the island for millenia.

I'm always surprised to see critics and bloggers really hating Jack (and really upset when readers somehow lump me into that Jack-hating category). I've always felt sorry for Jack, I've always seen why he does what he does. He definitely has his moments of holier-than-thouness, when he's talking down to Kate throughout season 1 or acting like Locke's an idiot in season 2, or telling everyone what to do in the other seasons... but Jack has been pushed around, his leadership questioned, and from the moment they landed on the island he has had more responsibility heaped upon him than everyone else put together. So it seems logical that he would be the guy to take on this responsibility, but I'm with you... I was so sad when he drank that, knowing that he'll be in chains just like the smoke monster... attached to an island that's brought him nothing but misery. I just adored him in that scene. And wanted to give him a hug.

Nikki Stafford said...

Lauren: I absolutely adored how Jacob told Kate:
"It's just chalk on a wall. The job is yours if you want it."


I agree... what a great and simple line. And it also made me wonder, what if Kate said yes, I'll take it and join Jack and do it with him... the Jaters rejoice. And in the other timeline Sawyer helps Kate escape and they run off to a new life together... Skaters rejoice. Everyone's happy!! :)

Nikki Stafford said...

OK, reading through the comments, and maybe I'm TOTALLY in denial because of my undying love for him... but I don't think Richard is dead. The guy was tackled at a high speed, but he's immortal, and we've seen Smokey carry him through the jungle before, and I don't think Smokey can kill someone whom Jacob has touched. I could be wrong, but that would have been a pretty unceremonious way for him to go... I felt more like he was just trying to knock him out momentarily to get him out of the way while he takes off with Ben. Please don't be dead, Richard... :(

Nikki Stafford said...

Ambivalentman: I'm pretty sure Richard is not dead. We didn't see his body. Besides, I doubt Darlton would give us the lovely "Ab Aeterno" just so they could give us a Richard death scene about as anti-climatic as Ana-Lucia and Libby's.

Thank you. I agree completely. I just don't see them going to all that trouble to show us how much he's been through and how he wants to be reunited with Isabella just to take him out like THAT. Ugh.

Nikki Stafford said...

mgkoeln: There goes my Annie theory :-( I was absolutely convinced, that Zoe would turn out to be Ben's childhood friend saving him from Widmore and having a bunch of Dharma answers with her. Not very likely now...

I'm wondering if we'll ever see her now... what a strange thing to have thrown in there. Perhaps it was nothing more than to show he had the ability to create connections and attachments. But man, if you'd been right I would have taken back everything I said about Zoe...

Nikki Stafford said...

Blam: Hurley: "Where've you been?"
Jacob: "Doesn't matter. I'm here now."
Me: "Uh, yeah, it actually does frickin' matter."


You know, I have to admit, if I'd been the other characters I would have said... "DUDE, couldn't we have had this campfire talk on, oh, I don't know, SEPTEMBER 23, 2004?????"

Rufus said...

Gracie: IF Locke (the living one) is taken back to the island, and then ends up face to face with FLocke, what happens?

Gracie: Anyone who took the Lost University physics courses (in the extra section of the blu ray lostuniversity.org)knows what could happen if what you say occurs. If characters are conscious of another life what does that mean and if that awareness can cross realities what happens if the whole person could go sideways? With the MIB he can only "be" someone who is dead, what happens if that person could get to the island reality from the sideways reality? The MIB is stuck as Locke...;)

Jo Thornley said...

Nikki: "I agree... what a great and simple line. And it also made me wonder, what if Kate said yes, I'll take it and join Jack and do it with him... the Jaters rejoice. And in the other timeline Sawyer helps Kate escape and they run off to a new life together... Skaters rejoice. Everyone's happy!! :)"


I actually think it might be the other way around! Since Jack is the new Jacob in the original timeline, he'll be able to fulfill his destiny, just like he thought he would, and end up with Kate in the alternate reality. I'm thinking that in the alternate reality, David's mom is going to be Juliet... and she'll be at the same concert as Sawyer... Perhaps they could go get some coffee or something... And then Kate and Sawyer'd end up together on the island, and everybody'd be happy. Unless of course one of them dies suddenly like all of my other favourite character... sniff.

Nikki Stafford said...

Donna S: Of all our castaways, only HURLEY was not shown in the flash-sideways. Was he? Am I forgetting a scene or something? Because I don't recall seeing him, but we did see everybody else (who is still alive...well, we saw Sayid, and he's dead...but anyway!) So, Jack's already been "anointed" as the successor to Jacob...what, if anything, does this mean for Hurley?

Actually, Hurley was shown quite prominently... he was the guy at the end who paid off Ana-Lucia. Jin and Sun, on the other hand, didn't appear in it, which was disconcerting.

Gracie said...

A Frustrated Writer said: "Plot-changing:
Jacob: Come and sit down and I'll tell you what they died for. I'll tell you why I chose them and why I chose you. And then I'll tell you everything you need to know about protecting this island.


Is anyone else still blown away by the fact that Jacob said all of this, and then he actually did it? That's a first for the island, not just Jacob! Imagine that! And we saw it on Lost too!

Susan said: "Gracie thanks for the heads-up on Dinner Impossible, I forgot to mention it. This is one of my favorite shows, and when I learned they were doing a Lost episode, I was thrilled!
It will be on 10pm and 1am in the eastern time zone on the Food Network. I've seen Richard and Hurley in the previews, but it's really hard to see who else is going to be there. They did get a good turnout of cast when Ace of Cakes did a Lost episode to celebrate the 100th episode last season."


I thought I should mention for anyone interested that in the ads they have such extreme close-ups of Richard AND Hurley that if the entire cast was there in the background, you'd never know it. Anybody could actually be on this show! Don't be sorry tomorrow if you missed something good tonight! Do Canadians even get this stuff on the American cable channels? I really wouldn't know but always, I'm curious.
@Susan: If you know Ace of Cakes at all, you know it better than I do. If they were going to repeat the episode on Lost, how would I find (or know) that?

SonshineMusic i.e. Rebecca T. said...

@BatCabbage: Kate stepped in, and did the right thing and became Aaron's mother. Just sayin'.

I agree - don't know why Kate gets so much flack for this! What were they supposed to do? Leave Aaron in the jungle? Drop him off at an orphanage? surely it was better for him to be raised by the woman who had helped to birth him, who truly loved and cared for him, then to throw him to the whims of strangers!

Okay, sorry, Kate rant over :)

@asiancolossus: but has touched my soul (sorry for being overly dramatic!)

Not overly dramatic at all. I came into the party late, only beginning with S5 to watch live, but this show has been such a HUGE part of my life! I can' imagine what I'm going to do without it! We're on vacation with my sister and her husband who can't stand Lost. She rolls her eyes and walks away, completely not understanding any of it and there's really no way to explain how much a part of me this has become.

Funny tangent story - after Lost Dad flipped on the news about the primaries and elections. Naomi and I had walked away, but then we hear the words "8 candidates"... her first reaction was - there aren't that many left. and I went, 8 is one of the numbers! And then we realized they weren't talking Lost and had to chuckle at ourselves.

Nikki Stafford said...

Batcabbage: I'm a dyed in the wool Kate-hater, every since season 3, but I feel myself compelled to defend her here. Claire was gone, nowhere to be found, off with the Christian incarnation of Smokey. They couldn't find her. Kate stepped in, and did the right thing and became Aaron's mother. Just sayin'.

I have to agree... Kate did the only thing she knew how to do... she couldn't toss Aaron off the helicopter and say, "Sorry, kid, but your mom is on the island and I don't want to take you away from her. Let's hope she finds you before a wild boar does." And she was an AMAZING mother who loved him with her entire being.

Gracie said...

Rainier said: "@Gracie: How long ago did I say that these people were brought here because they were all miserable and not very likeable people from the start? I did say that if everyone recalls. It's nice to know that once in a while, I do think clearly and hit the nail on the head.
Yes, they were all unhappy, but I ask again - how much of this was a consequence of being candidates? Consider the Sideways World. This may be a chicken-and-egg question...Also, I quite liked some of them, even from the beginning. Whether I was "supposed to" or not, I found them to be likable and sympathetic characters.


From my POV, unless someone would like to clarify for ME (always appreciated), it IS a chicken-and-egg question because as I'd said in the first situation, you weren't supposed to like these people because they were flawed. Opposite this, in the sideways world, you are supposed to like them even though they are flawed. But that's open to interpretation, I guess, because to each his/her own on how well you are willing to tolerate somebody who is flawed. For example, maybe you know someone with a drug problem? That would make you more sympathetic to Charlie, but if that's so, it should have been equally so in the original AND the sideways timelines!

Rainier again: "Ana Lucia is bad in the sideways world? Taking a pay off? Was she ever good?
I never saw Ana Lucia as 'bad' in the OT. Damaged, yes - badly. But she was not a bad person, nor even necessarily a bad cop."


Good point, but still she was flawed. In the original timeline I don't think you were supposed to like her because of her flaws. In the sideways timeline, I think you are supposed to have empathy for her because she's damaged or flawed. Empathize even if you do not like her. And I don't think you're supposed to "like" a cop on the take, but in her case, you are! Whereas in the first one, I don't think you were supposed to like her in any way, in the second situation you are supposed to empathize OR wonder why she's on the take OR find something about her TO like. (That doesn't make sense when I read it back, but you should know the basis of what I'm saying.)

Rainier said: "I don't necessarily see Jack lasting until the end either, and do not think that the other candidates necessarily lose their protection anyway. They could still be potential replacements for Jack. I think it may well be that any who survive may well have to stay with Jack; they have no means of leaving, as you said.

That's the answer I was looking for; the do they still have Jacob's protection question. With what you've given me there, I can wonder if Kate survives and Jack DOES stay in power, would she stay with him? Does that, therefore mean that Richard still has immortality as granted by Jacob? If so, he should still be around somewhere licking his wounds. And as far as I know, the Elizabeth is still floating around somewhere, isn't it?

Rainier said: "Is there some significance to the red flowers growing around Jacob's fire pit? I do recall them growing at the Orchid.
Red flowers are generally associated with death. Jacob is already dead, but is also leaving the world altogether now (or so it would seem)."


Good explanation Rain. Wrong interpretation of my question though. I meant we've seen those red flowers here, there, and everywhere but only once in a while. Is there a significance to them in the island story beyond what you've just said, because I don't recall offhand every time I've seen them and what was going on when they were shown other than they were growing at the Orchid, and I think Ben told Locke to turn left when he came to them (or something)?

WOW! I think I saw that Nikki is posting!! Welcome home, Oh Fearless Leader!! :)

Anonymous said...

@ DAVIDB226MORRIS:

"Through The Looking Glass" all the way. Tied up the majority of the forward momentum from Seasons 1-3 while brilliantly turning the show on its head for the launch into seasons 4-6. It's one of the best ensemble pieces of LOST story-telling, featured all kinds of action/heroics as well as incredible heart, intense drama, and one hell of a twist.

Only the series finale could possibly dethrone it, but as much confidence as I have in the finale, I kinda doubt it. That episode is amazing...

Kotowski said...

Is the Sideways reality the one in which the Monster succeeds in destroying the Island? This would explain why the Island is sunken at the bottom of the ocean. Only...why would that take place in the Sideways reality? Or...will our reality intertwine with the Sideways reality precisely at the moment of the Island's destruction? This would make our reality "morph" into the Sideways reality. Don't ask me how this would happen, I'm just entertaining thoughts here. It would prove the deleted scene from season 5 where Daniel talks about two stream paths that eventually converge again around a rock to be quite valuable. If our reality converges and everyone dies, then the Sideways reality would become the primary and only reality. I don't know why Desmond would still want the characters to remember this, but we'll see (honestly, the Sideways plot and where it leads is THE best-kept secret of "Lost" ever).

Also, if the Monster destroys the Island, wouldn't he be killing himself too? The Man in Black was tossed into the Cove Light, and the Smoke Monster came out as a product of the Light, making the Man in Black 100% evil. My point is this...isn't the Monster part of the Island's life-source/energy? Wouldn't destroying the Island be destroying itself?

SenexMacDonald said...

@Nikki said: "Jacob saying he crossed Kate off because she was a mother."

... which explains why Claire is not there. She was already pregnant before she arrived. We did not see Jacob with her before the island - this might be why. She did not need to be included as she was already 'with child'.

Gracie said...

Nikki said: "Gracie: IF Locke (the living one) is taken back to the island, and then ends up face to face with FLocke, what happens?

That would presuppose that everyone in the sideways world is going to the island... and I'm not sure why they'd do that. It's an intriguing premise and one I would enjoy watching play out, but it's not clear why that would happen.
I think this is one of those questions where we simply have to wait and see what would happen IF that would ever happen, and since we only have 4 more days, we don't have to wait long to find out! :)"


Well, Nikki, no. Actually where I hoped it was leading, if it's even possible, is that all the others would meet up at this concert, and since Desmond has been running all over the place, and everyone is way ahead of Jack, they are going to tell Jack that he needs to fix Locke so HE can take a walking Locke back to the island HIMSELF to straighten out this situation with FLocke before it all self-destructs. See?? That's where I was wondering if it could go since I don't understand space/time or time/travel. But if appears that if I did give enough hints, nobody wanted to jump on my bandwagon. But thanks to one and all for the information!! You're still welcome to jump if I have any legs in that idea to stand on! Have at!

David said...

• Holy crap, was Desmond planning on running over Locke AGAIN?! How many times does he have to mow the guy down to make him see the light? Why is it so hard to get Locke to see the other side?

Remember that Hurley had his revelation before most and so probably has full memory of the island. I bet this is how it is for everybody, once they receive their island memory it takes a bit to form fully. So, you could see Ben's emotions coming back when Alex was referred to as being like a daughter, but he probably doesn't know why YET.

• Why does little Jacob appear to Hurley? Why not just appear as his older self? Is there a reason to use the child version?

Probably has something to do with the ashes, that being his grown up self, and burning them as he burned.

• Does Ben really want the island all to himself? Or is he also working on ulterior motives aligning himself with Smokey?

I hate to think that Ben is back to being all evil. I think he is trying to infiltrate Locke's trust and help Jack and the others from the inside. I hope anyway. I still hope for Ben's redemption.

• Why is Ana Lucia not ready yet? Is this just a convenient device not to involve her?

She hasn't been "brought back" yet with an incident that brings the memories. I bet, anyway. Plus, the others are candidates. Or the original peeps.

• Why are there different degrees of visions? Ben has the vision of being hit but nothing else, yet Hurley totally knows Ana Lucia.

Again, I think this depends on who they are (their importance) but when they had their vision.

Gracie said...

Continuation of my last comment: Assuming, of course, that Jack remains the leader of the island!

JS said...

Re: Richard being killed by Smokey - Unless we see bodies go boom, or drown, or lying on the ground with dead eyes (except Keamy), Lapidus & Richard are not dead.

Lisa(until further notice) said...

Finally caught up on comment reading. When I first got up this morning to read Nikki's post, it was at 55 comments. In between reading Nikki's post and your comments, it has ballooned to 97.

I was SO SO SO happy with last night's episode that I didn't wait for Nikki's post. I was so fulfilled and satisfied I didn't need anything more at the time. I just went to bed very happy. Even my husband was very positive about the episode, one of the best of the series in his opinion. And that after saying just two days ago that it will be impossible for the writers to wind this thing down with just two episodes to go. He admitted he was WRONG! HA!

I heart Jack too. Always have, and I must say I was absolutely crushed that he offered to take on the job of protector. I actually had my hand over my face as the entire ritual was taking place. NOOOOOO, Jack. Anyway, I loved when Sawyer made that comment about Jack having a God complex BEFORE...and then Kate saying, in essence, hush!

Also saw Doc Jenson and Dan's latest "Totally LOST" on EW, and you should all watch it. Big guest spost by Titus Welliver and Mark Pelligrino and how they interpreted last week's ep and Jacob's role specifically. Especially good stuff about the ceremony and mumbled words during said ceremony (now you're like me!)GREAT stuff. Here's the link: http://www.ew.com/ew/video/0,,20313460_20313475,00.html

I can't wait for the benefit at the museum. Charlie will probably be there too (performing with Daniel like he was supposed to before?) How will Ben, Alex and Danielle get there? And Sawyer? I loved his line to Miles when he asked if that red-headed chick who hates him will be there. HA!

So happy to see Sayid again. It brightened my mood a great deal.

As far as Ben killing Widmore...I think rules are meant to be broken. I think the only ones who truly can't break the rules are Jacob and MIB. And I for one don't believe Richard is dead.

Did anyone else keep waiting for Frank to wash up/swim up on shore while they all stared out at the ocean?

When Jack made the statement, "Well I guess we should get going," I thought...well, he's the leader again.

My only thoughts on Desmond going back to the school are that he was there for BEN. And regarding the students being so happy to see Mr. Locke again, I can only say this...he just got hit by a car in their parking lot and taken to the hospital. Big event. Everyone would have been watching the scene and wondering what happened. We have subs at my son's school that are there every day, and most of the kids know them because they are subbing in all of the rooms at one time or another. Unlike a math teacher who only sees his own students every day, a sub is in a different room every day and therefore gets to know more of the student population.

I can't wait for Sunday. We won't be wondering why Desmond is so creepy anymore. We'll KNOW why he was so creepy. Looking forward to seeing EVERYONE at the museum.

Off to watch it again!!!

JenniferS said...

Well, RIP Ben's redemption. That was what, all of two days? Seems Widmore just always set the guy off, but really it must have been Alex's death that was the final nail in the coffin. The coldness in Ben's voice when he said, "He doesn't get to save his daughter" took my breath away.

How weird is it if sideways Ben hooks up with Rousseau? (Part of me is saying, "ick.")

Thought I heard the faint noise of Nikki cheering when Zoe's throat was cut.

I looked down at the wrong second. Did Smokey kill Richard?

Thought it was generous of Jack not to blame Sawyer for Sun and Jin. I wanted to cry every time their names were mentioned.

Seriously, was Des really going to run over Locke again? Didn't work the first time, so he shows up in the same place and the same car to do the same thing? Come on, Des.

I was sure the van driver would be Charlie. Will he turn up again?

Does Mark Pellegrino ever open his eyes all the way? I have noticed his heavy-lidded look before, but last night I kept thinking, "You're only here until the fire burns out! Stay awake!"

Looks like I won't get my wish for a sideways Tom the Other. Oh well.

What a ride!

Gracie said...

Convergence said: "Maybe it's just me, but I see humor even in subtle things. For example, for weeks we have been talking about the "bleed-through" from the Island world to the AU. In this episode, Jack is viewing his re-opened neck cut in the mirror, bleeding through. And Ben is beaten until he too bleeds. I just think the writers mean this intentionally in a clever, subtle way. The Island is literally bleeding through."

Does anyone know what is up with Jack's neck, and what we are to infer from that? Or is it one of those things that hasn't been answered to any degree yet? It's someone irritating that his neck keeps bleeding over all this passing time off island, he's a doctor, he apparently doesn't know what he did, or why it's bleeding at all much less continuously. I think it's the doctor part of that that irritates me most of all.

Convergence said: "Rainier, I completely agree about Jack and Hurley, for the exact same reason you did. The fact Hurley says "glad it wasn't me" made me immediately think, "Hmmm, this show so frequently sends twists and turns our way, maybe we shouldn't bank on the assumption Jack is the dude just because he volunteered. Maybe Flocke will kill Jack, and Hurley will have to take on the role."

Hey, this was my idea, but just how many boxes of tissues do you guys plan on taking to the finale??? I don't think Jack is the final Replacement, but please, HURLEY!?!?!?! Isn't that, in fact, the lowest of the lows? To ask him to do this, well, for starters, he would be insane doing it, and would then truly qualify for "Nuthouse Wannabe". Secondly, of all the scenarios there are, there is NONE more sad than this one. NONE! Leaving three-plus-year-old Aaron there alone to deal with this on his own is not as sad to me for whatever reason as leaving Hurley to find his own Replacement! (Maybe because I know Aaron won't be left there alone, and Hurley could be?) Man, what a true heartbreaker that would be!!

Convergence said: "Anybody wonder if maybe the only way black smoke will ever be killed is if he is countered with ... White smoke at some point? Could one of the Losties go down the light-water rabbit hole and come roaring out as restorative, good souled white smoke instead of black?"

Wow, there's an idea I haven't seen. But, frankly, whether you believe everything The Good Ship Mama told her boys or not, I cannot believe that anything coming back out of there can be good. I don't believe in much Mom said, but I wouldn't count her out after seeing what came out the first time. You want to volunteer to check that out? I'll take a pass thanks. You go first; the rest of us will follow!

SonshineMusic i.e. Rebecca T. said...

I just had a thought... there's been a lot of talk about the "wild card" be it Kate, Claire or Desmond.

What if the wild card is Ben.

He wasn't on the plane in the FS, right? But Desmond knows to go find him and make him remember - he can see the other side, just like the other candidates have been able to. he's still alive in both worlds AND is very close to MiB. Besides which, he was the one that killed Jacob - wouldn't it be fitting that he be the one to kill MiB, the one to bring "balance", to redeem himself for the one by doing the other? to SACRIFICE his entire life's works and desires by giving up the Island and his power by righting this wrong?

JS said...

@Rainier - I had some issues with Jacob's statement that everyone he brought to the island was already flawed and alone. OK, true for some, to be sure. But in the ST, a number of characters seem to be OK.
But he didn’t pluck them out of the ST, he plucked them out of the OT. They are different people, and in the ST, they seem to have better lives. I think the end of LOST will involve having their consciousness merged, and they end up in the ST.

@DavidB226Morris - I have been trying to determine a list of the 50 greatest episodes of TV that have been aired in the last 20 years. I could, of course, post more than one episode per series, but I want to give each show the same bite at the apple. Fair is fair.
Well DBM, as LOST is serialized, and as we have experienced, each episode builds on the previous episodes, and some episodes are better after immediate re-watching, while others improve once we know what happens afterward. But the one episode that is great with background, with knowledge of future events, and as a stand alone representative of the greatness of LOST – The Constant. I don’t think I am going out on a limb here. But anyone could watch this episode by itself and be completely moved to tears without any more context than is given in the episode. Close second is Walkabout, because it helps to understand how bad ass Locke is before we get to the end, though it works very well as a stand alone. Both these episodes have incredible climactic scenes that evoke an emotional response you didn’t know was coming.

Anonymous said...

A few observations:

It's not like Jack will never leave the island again. Jacob used to do it all the time. However, Jacob certainly didn't give Jack proper job training. He didn't show him how to leave/project himself off the island at all. Is Jack supposed to figure this out himself.

Jacob saying the four needed the island and were all alone. A big part of that is due to his meddling - in the ST they all seemed much more fulfilled (well, maybe not Kate).

MIB is not a mental giant. It took him 2,000 or so years to figure out to just have someone else kill Jacob?

-Tim Alan

Gracie said...

@ANYONE: I plan to make it to the live chat today with Nikki at noon my time.

If anyone out there has any advice beyond what pops up when you click on "Reader Information", could you please toss me a bone before noon EST? I'd like to buy a clue?? Just put my name at the beginning of your post, and I'll find it!! First timer here and I'm really looking forward to it too!

Gracie said...

Can anyone tell me why I'm clicking on "Listen Now" at 98.5, and am hearing nothing but air??

JS said...

@A Frustrated Writer - Ben: Widmore's in my closet. (With a gun. Better use the code word! It's the man from Tallahassee.)
HAHAHAHA. I love LOST’s self-referential ways.

@TM Lawrence - If Ben can kill Charles, what happened to The Rules?
Good Point. What will the consequence to Ben be for killing charles. I bet Ben can break the rules, but I am unsure of how to “change” the rules. Maybe Widmore changed them when he had Alex killed, and that allowed Ben to now kill him, though that would have been true way back in The Shape of things to Come when Ben confronted Widmore in his bedroom.

@Blam – everything you said. Oh, Blam, thanks for keeping me in laughter.

@Donna S. – Yes, Hurley was in the last scene with Desmond, about to re-enact his ride in the yellow hummer with a “dead Pakistani”. He even recognized, then unrecognized Ana Lucia. And he appeared in two previous episodes in the sideways – The Substitute and Everybody Loves Hugo. And, I would say Kate saved Aaron, since his mother either died or abandoned him, very different than killing the mother in order to steal the baby. Lastly, though I would have said the same for Kwon and Ford on becoming fathers, Jack becoming a father happened in OT, and nothing happening in OT is impacting the island (YET!!).

JoanieG said...

I haven't had a chance to read the comments yet, so this may have been covered, but I would like to know how Ben was able to kill Widmore, when it was stipulated that he couldn't kill him in the previous episode where they met in Widmore's room. (Sorry, my memory fails me when it comes to naming that episode, but it's the one with the light shining on half of both of their faces.)

Another question. Is Richard dead? Isn't he supposed to be immortal?

Third, when Flocke went into Ben's secret room to see Widmore and Zoe, where was Miles?

Gracie said...

"Service Temporarily Unavailable"

OMG!! I have wanted for so long to follow Nikki for a day as she chats live about Lost, and this just figures. I'm actually here, set up, and ready to go and nothing is coming through. When you click on "Listen Now" it actually says "Service Temporarily Unavailable: FML!

Why does this have to happen to me today?

JS said...

@Kotowski – my working theory is, the island is destroyed, the OT ends, and in the ST, our characters consciousnesses merge with their OT originals, and this would take us back to the island being under water. I am guessing FLocke thinks he can destroy the island and escape, and what he doesn’t realize is he is part of the island, and the island is part of him, and they cannot exist without the other.

@Lisa (UFN) - anyone else keep waiting for Frank to wash up/swim up on shore while they all stared out at the ocean?
I was totally waiting for that, or a rug of chest hair (eewww)

Fred said...

Okay, I still don't see the point of the Alternate timeline. Is the point of Desmond trying to get the Oceanic 6 together the same as in Haroun? Is it just memory? If so, then the point of the Alternate timeline is to recall the island timeline, and as in Rushdie's novel it brings back the light to the Alternate timeline, just as story is brought back to the city in Haroun.

So might we get in the end, that the light reappears in the undersea island in the Alt timeline, while in the island timeline we imagine it goes out because MiB succeeds. I can also imagine that Hurley eacapes the island aboard the Elizabeth. When Widmroe bid on the journal of the Black Rock, the aucioneer announced it was brought back by the first mate, the lone survivor. Hurley might be the lone survivor.

Just a puzzle, but had Locke followed Walt's advice and never opened the hatch, then Desmond would have committed suicide and the hatch would have imploded. Effectively, it would have sealed the light in (which, by the way, was what happened when Desmond turned the failsafe key). So was Walt channeling Jacob at that time?

Is Ben still redeemed or not? He seems pretty much come over to the dark side. Widmroe's plan just went bust, but it never seemed like it would have been much of a plan to begin with. And finally, what is Ms Hawking? She had wanted Desmond to go to the island, perhaps hoping he'd die there and this would resolve the issue of the Swan. BUt also in the Alternate timeline, she didn't want Desmond to regain his island consciousness--is remaining ignorant a good thing? Or is it like in Haroun what makes the world so drab? I suspect the night at the Museum is to trigger Jack's memory (good thing Jack wasn't goin to the opera--can anyone imagine Groucho making an appearance)? And if everyone regained their island memories, how would Rousseau look at Dr. Linus then?

TiaSabita said...

Now that was an episode of LOST! Never a dull moment, every cast member involved and lots of omg moments!

Nikki, you and your groupies are so fab! I'd love to know the answers to all your questions, too! And congrats are in order! Zoe's death scene was not as dramatic as being impaled on a huge piece of metal but appreciated nonetheless! I bet the joy kept you up all night!

@NIKKI-"is it possible that now that he’s the new Jacob, he actually creates this world somehow? Could this entire world be something that exists in his head? Or something he gave the world as a
gift?"
Love that thought! Jack's m.o. has always been to get his people off the island. Jacob gave Richard the 'gift' of eternal life, maybe Jack gets to give a gift to his peeps and himself!!

@BENNY-"What if the sunken island in fact protects the source/light from being reached by anyone? Protected forever and there is no continuous need for a protector/Jacob!"
Wow! Great thought! So then MIB would kindof achieve his plan of island destruction but (probably, hopefully) with the twist of JKSH finding a way to entomb Smokey in the watery grave of his own making. So this supports Nikki's idea of Jack giving 'gifts', like 'help me destroy this place and Smokey and my promise to you is that we'll all be together again one day in a new and better life.'

Jacob said "sit down and I'll tell you what they died for". Did we get a why for Sayid? Just cuz his alliances were temporarily averted? So were the names in the cave crossed off cuz they all became involved parents?

Did Jack's eyes widen just a bit and his facial expression take on a slight look of knowing after he drank from the cup?

So we've always thought the purpose of Jack's backpack was to carry the black & white stones. Now we know it was also carrying the Holy Grail!

So is the water magical now that the wine bottle has been broken? Could a Dharma beer be made magical with the right voodoo incantation recited over it?

Lisa(until further notice) said...

Oh, and that campfire scene where Jacob tells them what they need to know? Well, I was terrified that this is what the scene would look like:

CAMERA PANS IN ON JACOB AS HE FINISHES TALKING AND THE REMAINING CANDIDATES WATCH HIM. JACOB STANDS UP, WHIPES HIS HANDS ON HIS PANTS AND SAYS: "AND THAT'S IT. THAT'S WHY YOU'RE HERE. THAT'S WHAT THEY DIED FOR. ANY QUESTIONS?" END OF SCENE.

I seriously didn't think "we the audience" were going to be privy to their conversation. WHEW. Thank goodness for small favors. There would have been a revolt like never before on the blogs if that had happened.

Gracie said...

Am I doing something wrong? Her post was dated yesterday, May 18th, so when she says 'tomorrow', that would be today at "7:10 a.m. local time, 10:10 a.m. EST. Go here and click on the Listen Now button if you’re out of the listening area."

It's after 10:50 a.m. now and last time I looked at it, it said: "Now Playing: You Got It by Bonnie Raitt."

Okay, I give, but if anyone would like to tell me what I did wrong, I'd love to know! Yes, I've set up an account before-hand, and I signed in. Why won't it let me listen in?

Another "user-friendly" program? Or Operator error?

Anyone have any guidance for me?

Frank said...

One thing that kind of irks me still is which one of the Kwon's were a candidate - I know it doesn't make sense now, but these people were chosen because they were flawed and alone. With the Kwon story arc, they resolved the majority of these issues in the past 5 seasons, why were they still considered candidates at all?

Blam said...


Is it just me, or did the voice-over on ABC's end-of-episode promo that kind-of sounded like it was trying to mimic Eloise Hawking but obviously wasn't Fionnula Flanagan suck?

Sorry to answer Gracie so redundantly to Benny's own response... Often my comments sit awhile before they're posted.

Zari: "No Ordinary Family" ... It’s basically a live-action version of the animated "The Incredibles."

Or The Fantastic Four, on which The Incredibles was an obvious riff — certainly not without its own sparks of originality, and in fact brilliantly executed; No Ordinary Family can only hope to survive comparisons to these antecedents.

Rainier: That said, I had some issues with Jacob's statement that everyone he brought to the island was already flawed and alone.

My issue with that statement was less whether it was truly applicable to all the major Candidates than the unlucky fellow Oceanic and Ajira passengers who were collateral damage. I'm not saying that the Island and the Cave o' Light aren't important, just that there should've been some more than lip service to those who died for the apparent greater good with no choice at all in the matter.

I think that the "world where Jacob does not interfere at all" will be addressed one way or another — revealed as not such a happy ending after all, or as the result of the Island breaking open and spreading more of the light everywhere (so that it's less non-Jacob than "post-Jacob" in a more hopeful, maybe pseudo-Christian way), or even as, yes, a world where the characters are better for Jacob never having interfered with them as you say; but addressed for sure.

VW: demist — 1. v. To absorb humidity. 2. n. Follower of Ms. Moore or Ms. Lovato. 3. n. Half of a thoroughfare.

Nikki Stafford said...

JenniferS: Does Mark Pellegrino ever open his eyes all the way? I have noticed his heavy-lidded look before, but last night I kept thinking, "You're only here until the fire burns out! Stay awake!"

LOL!!! That comment just made me laugh out loud. Maybe he's doing it to show just how tired Jacob really is after all these years.

Your comment reminds me of my husband's aversion to Renee Zellweger. Every time he sees her he yells, "OPEN YOUR EYES!!!"

Nikki Stafford said...

Sonshine: I just had a thought... there's been a lot of talk about the "wild card" be it Kate, Claire or Desmond.

What if the wild card is Ben.


Love it. That would be awesome.

Nikki Stafford said...

Inside scoop for you guys... CBC is coming to my house any minute to film me for a segment on the end of Lost for an upcoming ep of The National (the national news program in Canada) and they're going to be filming me for the first 10 minutes of the chat. It'll be... weird. ;)

Blam said...


Rainier: I did think it was interesting that Hurley said "I'm just glad it's not me." Does anyone else think it is possible that something will happen to Jack and Hurley will end up with the job after all?

Could be. I wasn't sure if that line was meant to be funny or loaded.

Gracie: Does a Candidate lose his protection once Jack is enthroned?

Perhaps. But Perhaps Jack can then protect them; perhaps Jack can even make new Rules, however that happens, if there even are such things.

Convergence: Anybody wonder if maybe the only way black smoke will ever be killed is if he is countered with ... white smoke at some point?

I wondered in my own episode analysis on "The Candidate" last week if Locke's dead body wouldn't come into play in the endgame, and speculated after "Across the Sea" that someone might get the bright idea to toss it into the Cave o' Light.

SonshineMusic: I'm not sure I understand the point to Desmond faking Jack out about the coffin

The best I've come up with, since everyone's about to converge at the museum for the concert, is that the phone call was to remind viewers about the missing Christian and set up something for the finale. Either that or the producers are determined to put Desmond into as many cliché vintage cop/spy/action-show situations as possible (meeting Hurley accidentally on purpose at the fast-food joint, surveilling Locke from his car, peeling out into traffic without looking after surveilling Locke from his car, busting out of the paddy wagon, having a dress waiting for Kate).

SonshineMusic: Ben just can't help but get beaten up everywhere he goes, can he?

Nope. I think he got to know the mainland Others with the butcher shop just so he'd have a place to pick up raw steaks for a swollen face. (A Hollywood trope, by the way; you just want something cold, preferably not something cold that might contain salmonella.)

Gracie: Does anyone know what is up with Jack's neck, and what we are to infer from that?

I wouldn't worry about it; it's just a sign that he's the chosen one. Or, to put it another way, "Hakuna stigmata."

JS: Oh, Blam, thanks for keeping me in laughter.

It's truly my pleasure, darlin'. Here's one for Nurse Brian, in case he checks in during a study break:

Why are babies never hungry in utero?
'Cause they gestate!

Gracie said...

Convergence said: "Why did Little Jacob steal the ashes from Hurley?"

This is a simple yet understandable question indeed!
Was the purpose of that whole little sideshow just to get Hurley to follow Young Jacob, or are we still dealing with ulterior motives even though the guy is about to eat dirt?

@Nikki!! Just saw your last post:
Go big or stay home! Oh. You ARE home. Well, if you can't party with the people, get under the porch with the puppies! But have fun. You are so obviously on your way. I feel like singing the theme song from The Mary Tyler Moore Show. Or is the one I'm thinking of the theme from That Girl? Anyway, you are heading for the sky!

TiaSabita said...

@JS-"Ben must be conning FLocke. Particularly since Smokey’s promise of having the island is null and void if he destroys it – duh. But he sure did enjoy giving up Widmore."
I so hope you're right. Ben's pent-up raw emotions of guilt/sadness/jealousy/rage were palpable in his scenes with Alex's grave and with Widmore - damn, Michael Emerson is good! - and my heart was breaking for him! I wonder if Ben wouldn't have killed Widmore if Widmore hadn't mentioned having personally seen Jacob? Was this Ben's 'prize' from Jacob, to be able to get revenge on his worst enemy? Did Jacob call Widmore to the island to reward Ben with a kill? @LESLEYC - good thought about why Ben gave Miles the walkie!

@MAREBABE - cool info about KAKE! Thanks! I need to watch those!

We also saw Ben's reflection in the car hood while Dez was slapping him around.

Why did the camera show us a closeup of Flocke's shoes as he was getting out of the outrigger at the dock?

@QUESTIONMARK-Love the Checklist of Hope!! I did read that the outrigger scene would not be answered, just too complicated for Darlton to fit in an explanation. Sorry! I'd like to see added to that list why Charlotte speaks Korean, why the food drops continued and how/when Ilana and Jacob met.

@QUESTIONMARK- "If Richard is dead from that Smokey attack I don't know what I'm gonna do with myself :("
Ditto! If Richard doesn't make it his death has to be heart-wrenching and dramatic a la Jin & Sun!

@LORETTA-"Still, I've been entertained as hell for 6 years, so maybe that should be enough."
That pretty much says it, Sistuh!

@LAUREN-"I absolutely adored how Jacob told Kate:
"It's just chalk on a wall. The job is yours if you want it." Jacob's explanation in that scene was so simple... and to me... just perfect."
I actually felt a wave of verklemptness when he said that! Glad you liked it too!

Who has the backpack of C4 from the safe? Did Miles take it to the plane? Oh, shit.

Someone here, (sorry, I can't remember the author) mentioned what a hoot it would be for Ben and Danielle to hook up and Ben to become Alex's dad kinda for real! Kudos! But what's gonna happen if Ben remembers everything he did to those two? Awkward.

Ben was a father figure to Alex like Jacob was to Ilana.

Zari said...

"Alert!"

Michael Emerson is a guest on ABC "The View" this morning.

Jorge Garcia was the guest yesterday morning (Tues.)-- his video is online at http://theview.abc.go.com/

Word Verf: crepi : Mi skin nowadays, particularly mi neck.

Susan said...

Gracie: " If you know Ace of Cakes at all, you know it better than I do. If they were going to repeat the episode on Lost, how would I find (or know) that?"

If you have a DVR you can search for the LOST in Hawaii episode, or you can check foodnetwork.com

I went ahead and checked, and Ace of Cakes will be repeating its Lost episode on June 26 at 9pm (eastern) and June 27 at 12am (eastern).

Anonymous said...

Is Widmore really dead? I thought the rules stated that Ben and Widmore couldn't kill each other. If that's the case, couldn't that have been a plan between Ben and Widmore? Ben shoots Widmore, knowing Widmore won't die. He leaves with MIB...Widmore heals or whatever and gets up and goes to do whatever to bring MIB down. Ben pretends to be with MIB as a con, to stay close to him (and protect himself as long as possible). We didn't see what transpired between Ben and Widmore when Ben was telling him where to hide, etc. - and it seems silly that Widmore would just stand in a closet and think he's safe, he's not that stupid I don't think. And then for Ben to stick around so close, claiming he had to "See" what happened..I think it was always the intent for him to "pretend kill" Widmore...I danno, maybe I'm just way off base...but...I could totally see that. Self preservation for them both.

Gracie said...

@Blam said: "Or, to put it another way, "Hakuna stigmata."

OMG!! Are you a comedian during your "night job"? You really come up with some good ones Blam, and that jumped right off the page at me as I was scrolling from something else!!

Hilariously Perfect!!! LOL :o)

Teebore said...

@TM Lawrence: If Ben can kill Charles, what happened to The Rules?

I think a large part of how the rules work are based on the players' willingness to follow them (after all, nothing is stopping me from moving my king more than one space at a time in chess other than my own desire to follow the rules and the fear of forfeit if my opponent caught on).

So I think it's reached a point for Ben, with Jacob, the gamesmaster dead and all, where he says "to hell with the rules" and shoots Widmore.

@Ambivalentman: Maybe the Sideways characters are supposed to restore the Island somehow in order to reignite the mysterious Island light.

I've been thinking something along those same lines, but frankly, the sideways stuff is still a huge puzzler for me. I just see a lot of different places they could go with it.

@Batcabbage: Matter of fact, this whole episode just... I don't know, lifted my spirits, maybe? I feel that there was so much more here than compared to last weeks ep.

Agreed. While I still feel like there's going to be a lot more things unaddressed than I'd personally like, this episode went a long ways towards making me feel better about the upcoming end.

@Kiki: And what was up with the creepy lady voice for next shows promo.?!?!?

Part of me wondered if it was Eloise's voice strung through some effects.

@Jessica: after Jacob’s statement about it being his fault that MIB is who he is/became who he is...do we still need to question whether or not MIB is actually Smokey or if Smokey existed prior to MIB floating into the magical pool of hope?

Personally, I'm crossing that one off the list. MiB transformed into Smokey when he entered the cave. Smokey did not exist before that moment.

@Blam:
Jacob: "We're very close to the end, Hugo."
Me: "Try not to let the fourth wall hit you on its way down."


Bwa-ha-ha!

I still have the sinking feeling that the finale will leave unaddressed things that I feel should be addressed, however, even if they don't all occur to me while the drama that does unfold is unfolding. (I'm choosing my words carefully with "unaddressed" as opposed to "unanswered"; I think that this fits in better with the concerns of those in my and Teebore's camp, if I may impose on our frequent same-page-ness in this area.)

You certainly may, and I'm with you on this again. While this episode went a long ways towards restoring my Lost spirits, I still think there will be a ton of stuff that goes unaddressed. Not theme/meaning/character stuff, which is fine to leave open to interpretation, but basic plot stuff.

Ooh... In the altered timeline, it's not Canadians who are evil, but Americans.

Ah! It's like some kind of crazy Bizarro land!

I hope the sling doesn't hurt his Elba...

*Rimshot*

Oh, Blam, you crack me up.

Teebore said...

cont...

@Gillian: I think we're finally going to see David's mom. I think it might be Juliet. And then she and Sawyer will meet and she'll say the whole "We could get coffee sometime and go Dutch" thing to him.

Honestly? I don't think we're ever going to see Sideways Juliet utter that line. I think that's a great example of a plot point that seems significant, but in the end, Darlton will claim they didn't want to interfere with our interpretation of it, so they never took it any further than that episode.

But that's just me. I hope I'm wrong.

@asiancolossus: I was sad for Sawyer's realization of his role in the death of his friends, but also was satisfied at his "comeuppance" for doing the exact same thing he accused Jack of doing to get Juliet killed.

I was very pleased with the quietness of that moment. Sawyer didn't rage or angst, Jack didn't say 'I told you so'. It was like Sawyer's grief at screwing it up was greater even than his anger.

@Blam: I'm not looking for epic or profound death scenes, necessarily, but confirmation would be appropriate if only because so many viewers are wondering if they'll be back — not mourning or cursing the producers for the characters' ignoble ends but genuinely wondering, which is just sloppy storytelling.

Agreed. Oh, so agreed. This was a constant problem on Heroes (and it pains me to no end to be comparing the two shows this late in Lost's game): a character would seemingly die, and instead of mourning the loss or debating the meaning of the death, you'd be left wondering if they were even dead, because the death occurred in such a way that it wasn't even clear whether the character was dead or not.

I mean, I know Darlton is all about the viewers interpretations and whatnot, but this is a major plot element. If the show ends and we never see Richard again, is not making his fate clear REALLY so important to the integrity of the show?

All it would have taken was a scene of Richard getting up after being Smokey-punted, or a line from Ben asking about Richard and FLocke saying "I wouldn't worry about Richard anymore" or something like that.

Teebore said...

cont...

@Nikki: I'm wondering if we'll ever see her now... what a strange thing to have thrown in there. Perhaps it was nothing more than to show he had the ability to create connections and attachments.

I'm 99.9999999999% sure we'll never see or hear of Annie again. What we all thought was a significant mystery now seems like nothing more than a one-off character intended to flesh out Ben's characters (sure would have been nice if Darlton had mad that clear years ago, though...).

You know, I have to admit, if I'd been the other characters I would have said... "DUDE, couldn't we have had this campfire talk on, oh, I don't know, SEPTEMBER 23, 2004?????"

Well, some people you can just have a chat around the campfire with; some people, you've got to let them "stare out at the ocean" for six seasons first. ;)

@Tim Alan: However, Jacob certainly didn't give Jack proper job training. He didn't show him how to leave/project himself off the island at all. Is Jack supposed to figure this out himself.

I'm guessing that the drinking of the enchanted liquid and the assumption of the role of Island Protector bestows one with all the necessary knowledge. Note how both Jack and Jacob, upon taking up the mantle, both had a "eyes wide in realization" moment, as if a huge chunk of info just downloaded into their brain.

@JoanieG: Another question. Is Richard dead? Isn't he supposed to be immortal?

While Richard's status remains frustratingly unknown, the fact that he doesn't age doesn't necessarily mean he's invincible. It stands to reason that while he wouldn't die of old age or disease, he could be shot or stabbed to death, etc.

Immortality does not necessarily equal invincibility.

when Flocke went into Ben's secret room to see Widmore and Zoe, where was Miles?

He had said he was going to run off into the jungle, away from FLocke. Ben gave him one of the walkie-talkies, for some reason.

Michele said...

Home for lunch and my first chance to get to your blog (our spam filter won't let me load your blog because of "inappropriate language)!

No way I can get through the comments now but just wanted to share my deep feeling of "loss" with everyone.

I think I cried through the whole episode last night - not that it was sad but I just kept thinking "This is my last Tuesday curled up on the couch watching LOST!"

One part that really affected me was when Jack was stitching up Kate - I immediately flashed back to the first time they met and her sewing him up. It just seemed to tie together nicely.

Susan said...

Some consolation for those who are afraid Hurley's "glad it's not me" line was foreshadowing: remember earlier this season Hurley speculated that some of the Losties were Adam and Eve, and now we've seen that's not true; maybe it's just humor, Hurley's way of dealing with stress.

Benny said...

Just getting through the comments! nearly a 100 by the time I get up, GREAT!

@Gracie: I have another way of explaining the 'traveling' stuff coming up, if it wasn't addressed already.

Teebore said...

TiaSabita: So were the names in the cave crossed off cuz they all became involved parents?

I think they got crossed off for a variety of reasons; Kate's motherhood was just one example.

Could a Dharma beer be made magical with the right voodoo incantation recited over it?

My take is, presumably, yes.

@Lisa(until further notice): Oh, and that campfire scene where Jacob tells them what they need to know? Well, I was terrified that this is what the scene would look like

Ha! I thought the same thing! I was CONVINCED we'd come back from commercial and the fireside chat would be over.

I'm glad I was wrong.

@Nikki: Your comment reminds me of my husband's aversion to Renee Zellweger. Every time he sees her he yells, "OPEN YOUR EYES!!!"

Your husband is a wise man.

@Blam: perhaps Jack can even make new Rules, however that happens, if there even are such things.

You know, he probably can, though it stands to reason his rules, at least initially, would be similar to those of his predecessor.

Erin said...

Okay, anybody else wondering... Where's Claire? She was with Smokey on the dock when the sub sunk, but we haven't seen her since.

Benny said...

@Gracie: First, I'll add that Rainier is right, they are not two different universes but two different possibilities.

Now, think of entities as the spirits/soul. The Locke on the island is of a different nature, but is ultimately a different soul since his entire personality and motivations are based on BiB/MiB from Across the Sea, call him MiB/Locke Ultimately, he could have very well existed at the same time as the living real Locke(OT), if not constrained by the way he can impersonate people (when they are dead).

Since we don't know the nature of how the MiB/Locke works, we can only suppose. So let's suppose that if Locke(OT) would become alive, and face MiB/Locke, the latter would revert to some previous embodiment. Then having Locke(ST) from a different reality (universe/possibility) does nothing since they are represented by two different souls/signatures (MiB and Locke) It would be like having the two Lockes face each other, which is entirely possible.

Think of them as phone numbers, identical but preceded with different area codes
604-555-4379 and 613-555-4379 -- the area code is the reality signature, while the number itself is the person. If you bring a 604 cell phone in the 613 area, the numbers still work correctly, one does not annihilate the other. My point is that MiB/Locke is an entirely different number than Locke(OT/ST), it would be like having 604-555-4379 and 613-555-8612.

I don't know if that makes it better...

The island reality and the sideways reality are not the same, as far as we know. They are connected but not the same. The writers have kept forcing this knowledge on us, they are currently coexisting. So while you leave MiB/Locke in his reality, you're transposing Locke(ST) from another one into a reality that is not his.
You had alluded to time travel paradoxes, but time travel happens within a single reality. In truth we have NO IDEA what happens when one would travel across realities/universes. There is no scientific knowledge on this.


I'll grant you, it's not easy stuff to consider. I've personally been a fan of sci-fi for a long time and have read a lot of science/science-fiction books on the topics... and I mean a lot (see: The New Time Travelers by David Toomey -- recognize the name Toomey? as in Sam Toomey?)

brodal said...

I'm going to have to stop lurking before it's all over! I love your site Nikki and just about everything you have to say. Your fellow bloggers are amazing and I am going to miss reading what you all have to say :-(

What are we going to do when it's over? Whatever you're watching, I'm in!

ok, now I'll go back to reading through the comments and hopefully I'll be back with some of my own...

SenexMacDonald said...

@ Gracie said..."If the cave is Jacob's, what's the point in the lighthouse except to follow everyone? Gives a whole new meaning to the idea of stalking, doesn't it? Why two locations?"

IMO...
With there being now two locations, I think that the lighthouse was used originally to locate candidates - and when Jacob found people who he believed might fit the bill, their names were then recorded on the lighthouse dial so he could easily relocate them and observe them. For what purpose, I am not sure except to maybe know when was the 'right' time to make contact with them?

The cave may have been a point on the island - possibly close to the beach we saw Jacob and MIB sitting on? - where Jacob could access his "data" so to speak once the candidates were on the island. If they failed (via Jacob's observations of them on the island - if memory serves me correctly re. that conversation he and MIB had about people coming to the island), then their names were removed from the list by putting a line through their name. Since no one had succeeded in taking the job over time, the cave was filled with lots of names.

Following Jacob's rational as to why Kate's name was crossed out, then Kwon should also have been as both Jin and Sun were parents. However, if it only applies to the MOTHER, then Kwon would have indicated Jin - and NOT Sun.

brodal said...

Ok, so I haven't gone through all the comments yet so forgive me if I'm repeating something already said...

Some random Ben thoughts...

I don't think for one moment he's on Flocke's side...I think he's playing along, buying himself some time. I think he had to give up where Widmore was because he knew Flocke would know he was lying. I think he killed Widmore for more than just his personal vendetta...I think he wanted to keep Widmore from telling Flocke what he wanted to know (otherwise why not kill him earlier)?

When Miles said Jacob's last thoughts were that he hoped he was wrong about Ben, I think he may have hoped he was wrong in thinking Ben ultimately would NOT kill him. I think he knew he needed to die and needed Ben to go through with it.

Back to reading...

Benny said...

All this talk of Eloise... anyone made the connection that her words are echoed in Desmond's words about Ana Lucia
"You're not ready yet"/"She's not ready yet"

RE: Annie - but seriously, if you watch that episode again, there is nothing mysterious about her. She doesn't say anything or do anything special. She was the only one to show attachment to Ben and in light of how we perceived Ben at that point (the big bad guy), it made his attachment to her somewhat mysterious, holding on to his doll. Because it was so out of character for him we (myself included) started asking questions about Annie instead of taking in the humanity the writers had given Ben and we made an unintended mystery of her.

It's the same with Smokey/MiB/Locke. The writers hammered in his evilness, the intents/success in killing and all, then they throw in Across the Sea, where they give him some humanity and innocence and his drive. This doesn't take away from the fact that he's become pure evil but rather gives us understanding of his motives.

It makes you wonder, what else did we misinterpret as a mystery?


@Blam: I am the Gatekeeper. Let's meet up and bring Gozer to this world.

@SenexMacDonald: Littleton was written in the cave though (313), but crossed out as well.

Erin said...

Sonshine said:

He wasn't on the plane in the FS, right? But Desmond knows to go find him and make him remember - he can see the other side, just like the other candidates have been able to. he's still alive in both worlds AND is very close to MiB. Besides which, he was the one that killed Jacob - wouldn't it be fitting that he be the one to kill MiB, the one to bring "balance", to redeem himself for the one by doing the other? to SACRIFICE his entire life's works and desires by giving up the Island and his power by righting this wrong?

LOVE. IT. That's a great thought!

TiaSabita said...

@NIKKI- The Super Bran Family Sized cereal has got to be one of the funniest props ever! Jack has definitely learned to let go! Can some smart person come up with an anagram?

@KOTOWSKI-" I was wondering why Jacob would burn his ashes if that would make him vanish for good. My brother-in-law enlightened me with the thought that perhaps the burning of his ashes makes him visible to people other than Hurley. I'll accept this for now."
So will I. Good thought!

@RAINIER-"I did think it was interesting that Hurley said "I'm just glad it's not me." Does anyone else think it is possible that something will happen to Jack and Hurley will end up with the job after all?"
Yes!! I agree with several of you about that and I actually laughed and said outloud, 'the show ain't over yet!" And on that note to you and ZARI - Hurley as the external observer seems perfect or maybe a Hurley/Dez team. They are special on the island and are in cahoots in the AU so you've got to be on to something.

@TEEBORE-"The Widmore explanation: you know, it was simple, but I liked it. It perfectly reconciled the evilWidmore we all know with the seemingly more benevolent one from this season."
Yes, another circle closed. I really liked how his story ended, too!

@TMLAWRENCE-"Did Richard get smoked or only tossed?"
LOL and good question! Please only tossed!

@JESSICA-"do we still need to question whether or not MIB is actually Smokey or if Smokey existed prior to MIB floating into the magical pool of hope?"
Seems we have our answer, I hope!

Still reading comments - yall are so awesome!

Fred said...

With Desmond as the "failsafe" I had a sinking feeling this was going to be like in Heroes: Desmond the "exploding man." He would release all that EM energy he had stored up in him after the Swan implosion in one giant blast and wipe out Smokie--now all we'd need is John McClane to say "Yippee-kay-aye" as Smokie is blown every which way to Sunday in a giant fire ball.

If Desmond is a failsafe, does that mean "reset"? We've seen failsafes, as in the failsafe in the Swan, but also at the Tempest. So might Desmond merely drain the energy from MiB? Fireball seems more dramatic, especially in HD.

What happened to Claire? We didn't see her come across with MiB, so does that mean he just up and killed her? Or is Claire, MiB's new Sayid? Given there isn't much time left, I'm going with a likely scenario that she is gone. But like Frank Lapidus, can't just yet count Claire out. (And, oh, yes, I expected Frank to come washing ashore with the debris from the sub).

Seems Miles was smarter than Widmore and Zoe. Running around in the jungle was a much better move than hiding in the backroom behind Ben's closet with no way out.

Hutch said...

This may have already been posted by others BUT what if Jack was married to Zoe in the sideways world? Everyone is expecting it to be Juliet but the LOST writers are famous for their "WHAT" twists....

DavidB226Morris said...

Well, I finally saw the episode. While I was watching it on ABC.com, one of the sponsors was Glade Island Breeze. oh commercial gods of irony.

Some random comments before I get to the meat.

I knew that Ben was going to kill Widmore even though I knew. Considering all the hell he put Ben through, there was a certain amount of symmetry to it. Plus i was glad to see thAt Ben got his teeth back after being so damn muted over the season.

I also liked Ben in the sideways world. After all these years of watching him deceive, inveigle and obfuscate, it was so much fun to see the softer side of Ben. And seeing him actually moisten up at Rousseau's words of praise --- I think that for that Ben, it made everything worth it.

Other news--- I'm glad Zoe got what was coming, but I'm not convinced Richard is dead yet. Smokey just seemed to blow him out of the way than his usual murderous rampage. I have a feeling were going to see him one last time before it all ends.

Similarly, I'm convinced that Frank might somehow have survived. You don't have a plane and a pilot on the same island, then not destroy one without the other. Somehow, I think he's still out there, just like Miles. And, btw, where the hell was Claire? Not-Locke just left her alone two weeks ago after keeping her alive for three years. I still think that she has a purpose.

But, of course, the key scene to this episode was the scene with Jacob at the fire, who finally told our heroes what we've known since Season 1--- all of the people on the island have had holes in their lives, gaps that they were never able to fill. for that reason Ana Lucia's appearance had a certain significance --- of the Tailies, she knew she was a wreck before she came to the island.

I know I've raised this issue like a hundreds time since this season began, but does anyone else feel that maybe neither Jacob or the Man in Black--- whoever's responsible for the sideways world--- pointed the castaways to the right path. Yeah, I know Charlie was still a mess, that Sayid and Kate were fugitives who couldn't get what they wanted, but Jack, Locke, Hurley, Claire, Sun and Jin, Ben, James, Miles were all better off in this world then they are in the 'real' one. If Desmond comes up to a bunch of them (and I'm pretty sure now that's what he's working towards) and tells them of their fates, would they choose going back to reality. And this is a world that has Daniel, Charlotte, Alex,Charlie, Sayid, Jin and Sun and Rousseau still alive in it, along with Boone, Shannon, Libby, and Ana Lucia That has to count for more than their deaths in the real world.

All of this has me geared towards the final episode which leaves me with two thoughts in my head.Jack may now be the next Jacob, but could Darlton and company be preparing us for one more titanic gotcha? Could it be that somehow one of the other candidates will be the one that ends up saving them? And we also had Ben and Locke together for the first time in both worlds, and we've seen how critical they are to every season since Season 2. Could it be that this is the combination that the island can not withstand?

I have more thoughts, but I think I'll just let this percolate for the next few hours. We're almost there, boys and girls. We may not like the journey's end, but it's been a hell of a ride

Lisa(until further notice) said...

@Hutch: Curse your typing fingers. Jack and Zoe?...what a zinger of a disappointment THAT would be. HAHAHAHAH

Teebore said...

@Benny: It makes you wonder, what else did we misinterpret as a mystery?

A lot, methinks.

What frustrates me about that situation (and some of the other "oh, that's not really a mystery" mysteries) is why Darlton, who have always been more communicative with their audience than most showrunners, and always been concerned with managing expectations, didn't nip the "Annie Mystery" in the bud from the onset?

If they never planned her to be anything more than a one-off character intended to humanize Ben, why not say as much in a season three era podcast, instead of a podcast during season six?

I mean, they knew fans were talking about the character, elevating her to a level of significance Darlton (and only Darlton) knew was unwarranted, so why not step in and say "guys, sorry, she's not a big deal. Focus on the other 1,452 mysteries out there."

Another example from that episode is the volcano; it seems doubtful that's going to come up again in the last episode. And seriously, so there's a volcano on the island, no big deal. I wouldn't have given it a second thought, except that Darlton said in the episode commentary that the volcano WAS significant.

So taking them at their word, we've been waiting (and will, presumably, be left waiting) for it to become significant when all along, it was never intended to be significant.

I mean, it's one thing to let us toddle along, making mysterious mountains out of ordinary moleholes. It's another thing to outright declare "this is important" when it's really not.

Both just seem a little too dirty pool for my liking.

Fred said...

@Lisa:Jack and Zoe?...what a zinger of a disappointment THAT would be. HAHAHAHAH

Worse yet, Jack and Nikki Fernandez. And Paulo is a waiter serving them all hors doeurves.

SenexMacDonald said...

Whoa!!! Okay, let me take a pause here.

There is lots of talk about the 'gang' here and of Jack taking on the job from Jacob.

Seems to me that we might be overlooking someone or two here. I am starting to think, after looking over most of the responses to Nikki's post - but not having read all so again forgive me if someone else brought this up already - that Jack could be an 'interm' guardian for the Light.

He has mentioned since coming back to the Island that he is staying. That he has 'stuff' to yet to do. What if his only job is to kill Flocke/Smokey? Does that mean he HAS to remain on the island at that point? I think not.

If this entity is defeated -and no one throws another dead body into the Light to create a new one - why does it have to be Jack who stays? I am wondering why it can't be Bernard and Rose?

They want to stay on the island; they've not been seen recently but we know that they are there. We also know that they are happy with their lives on the Island. Why could it not be them who ultimately become the caretakers for the Light and the Island?

I would find that satisfactory at the end. Why not?

lowercase dan said...

Well, I think "the plan" from Whitmore involved throwing Desmond into the light somehow. Maybe Whitmore wanted Desmond to grab Smokey and forcibly go into the "light of lights". This might undo Smokey and at the same time Desmond can resist being made into another smoke monster.

Anyone else wonder about the "as long as you can do it" answer to Jack from Jacob (and I can't believe I only just noticed at this moment how similar their names are, lol). It would be a crazy twist if Jack didn't make it out of the finale and one of the other three candidates had to replace Jack, wouldn't it?

Benny said...

@Teebore: I agree with you, they should have come out early on a lot of mysteries.

I think they were having fun, but realizing how some fans were coming out and saying they would be angry if such and such mystery was not answered, they decided to say some of these are not mysteries (at least not anymore - I'm sure Annie would have returned had the show not had a definite end).

But I do vaguely recall them saying the 'volcano' was more important than Annie, could it figure in the next 2.5 hours?

Teebore said...

But I do vaguely recall them saying the 'volcano' was more important than Annie, could it figure in the next 2.5 hours?

It certainly could. And it'd be neat if it does (maybe it plays a role in the destruction of the island?).

But I'm at a (admittedly pessimistic) point where I have little faith something as relatively minor as that is going to get air time despite Darlton saying it would be important once upon a time.

Stacy said...

I agree that ben is the wild card. I stated last week- must have gotten buried in the masses- that jacob was treating Ben like mother treated Jacob, kind of like a middle child. i just can't see Jack doing this "job" forever.

Fred said...

@Benny:But I do vaguely recall them saying the 'volcano' was more important than Annie, could it figure in the next 2.5 hours?

Darlton are repoducing Joe and the Volcano. Widmore's plan was to throw Desmond into the volcano to appease the island gods.

TMClancy said...

Loretta --
I completely agree with your assessment of the BSG finale! And I have had a running conversation with my sister for weeks about whether a quality series can actually pull off a great ending or not. After "WTDF," I'm thinking we'll get that on the 23rd.

TiaSabita said...

@BLAM-Your comments to the TV are heelarious! But does it talk back to you? Or better yet, does it listen?

@LISAUFN-"Did anyone else keep waiting for Frank to wash up/swim up on shore while they all stared out at the ocean?
Yes!! But I'm afraid poor Frank is gone:( @JS-"rug of chest hair!" LOL!!

@JENNIFERS-"Well, RIP BEN's redemption."
But I think in the long run he has been redeemed. Alex's grave and Wid meeting Jacob was just too much for him and he had to settle that score. But I think and hope he's just working Flocke now.

@SONSHINE-"What if the wild card is Ben?"
Could be! Great thought and great explanation.

Just too many great ideas out there! Hope everyone is right!!

Will we ever see Dez and Pen meeting for coffee?

Did you notice how much it bugged Sawyer to walk away from Kate in the jail cell? They are so hooking up at the museum!

Can't wait to see the whole cast at the concert!! Jack's ex? Juliet, Penney, ¿¿Zoe?? Bite your tongue, @HUTCH! But it would be crazy and Lostlike! Will Kate and Juliet assist Claire's delivery in the bathroom? Miles girlfriend will be Naomi. I've got 10$ riding on it. The worst thing is I can't watch till Tues nite! I will enforce a total media blackout on myself for two days! Condolences accepted!

Happy viewing!

Fred said...

@Benny & Teebore:I think they were having fun, but realizing how some fans were coming out and saying they would be angry if such and such mystery was not answered, they decided to say some of these are not mysteries (at least not anymore - I'm sure Annie would have returned had the show not had a definite end).

These unanswered "mysteries" which Darlton said are not mysteries may indicate while they had an overall sketch for the outcome of the show, filling in the gaps may have been a bit ad hoc. Where we satisfied that Mother and MiB became Adam and Eve? Some of us were, while some weren't. But it did fit the theme of misdirection common on the show; we had been thinking for 6 seasons Adam and Eve were a couple, and then find out they were adopted son and mother.

But how do we deal with a lot of other things, like what the heck was Dharma all about. Were they meant to be just like the Carthaginian Romans, just updated to the twentieth century? And what was the whole point of Desmond in the Swan and the Losties in the Swan for Season 2? Then we have to ask, what the whole Hydra Island experience was for in the beginning of Season 3, except to get Ben's spinal surgery completed. It all made for some great drama, but was it all smoke and mirrors? The end of the show has to be substantial to all that happened before, and not just in tone. Right now I feel the myth is playing more to the front, and everything will be answered by appealing to the myth. But I would like some answer at least on the whole death by pregnancy bit, even if it is a throw away line by MiB saying he is the cause of it.

So how much did Darlton have pre-planned of the show, and how much was just a sketch of the plot line? This episode was straightforward and very revealing in its answers (a relief from all the obfuscation in previous episodes). Jacob's answers to the Losties confirms he made a mess of things by throwing his brother into the cave, and that Smokie is his brother, only in a vaporous form. But I felt a little let down with Jacob's answer that he picked Jack and company because they were alone and miserable in their lives, like him--if that were really the case, the island would be standing room only. Anyway, it's the only answer we got, so we've got to go with it.

Loretta said...

@TMClancy: There was actually an io9 article earlier in the week that compared Lost and BSG on the number of "answers" received--Lost won on nearly every count (unsurprisingly).

@Nikki: I never put you in the Jack haters. Even I, a self-avowed Jack-lover, recognized that he could be a jerk sometimes. I guess I was just always amazed that--in a show where it was clear the show-runners always wanted the audience to be aware of BOTH the good and the bad in every single character, even if some characters tipped more in one direction than another--his character seemed to be greeted with such great amounts of vitriol.

The entire cast of Lost characters were delightfully flawed, and frequently more human than many of the characters we would find on more "realistic," non-sci-fi shows. It's a lot like Buffy in that respect. I guess that's why I've always found myself saying, when any of them do something stupid, "Oh... well, that was dumb, but you've had it hard, and you really just need a Dharma beer and an Apollo bar (and maybe a hug)."

In my mind, there really haven't been that many truly loathsome acts committed by our cast of characters (but then I'm the type of person who loves stories that hang out in moral grey areas), and there have similarly been very, very few characters I actually hated. (I'm looking at you Nikki, Paulo, and Zoe.)

And now I realize I've gone on a meandering rumination on the entire series rather than just discussing the latest episode... LOL. I guess my point is that I've got a lot of affection for all of the characters, even those that many others dislike, and I'll be sad to lose my band of misfits in 5 days. :(

Gracie said...

@Nikki: Good Grief! That is one fast hour! How do you know when to call it a day on your end? Do you just stop talking and exit at one o'clock? (I think you'd pretty much have to with all the questions flying at you?) I'm curious how it's done on your end, just in case I ever get involved in another show you are following? That was insane fun trying to learn something from you and follow everyone else at the same time, but it's always fun in a chatroom. I've just never been in one where all the questions are directed at one or two people ONLY and that must just be insane for you.

Anonymous said...

The name of the episode is "What They Died For". Maybe that is a clue that by the end of the finale all of our heroes will die. Jack is just the first to step up to the plate. The others will get their turn...?

Lisa said...

Can someone help me with a few questions that maybe are answered and I just missed?

1) I still don't understand why Richard was not a candidate? Seems like he would have been an easy choice. (Plus, Jack may not have gotten instructions from Jacob on how to be Mr. Island, but Jacob got squat from his Mom when he drank the wine - somehow he must have figured out how to build a lighthouse and rig up a magical mirror device and teleport to places and times or something all on his own)

2) Something still bothers me ... back in S5, Sayid shot Little Ben, Richard took him to the Temple and saved him, and Little Ben grew up with the Others (we got to see him steal Alex, etc). How does that mesh with the Dharma Purge? Ben was living in Dharmaville when he killed his father and gassed everyone. I'm missing something here.

3) Richard told Sun he knew her friends (when they first got back to the Island and Sun had started looking for Jin), that he watched them all die. We haven't seen this come to pass yet, so does that mean Richard is alive and they're all still going to die? Or maybe I'm missing something here too.

Thanks for any help!

Benny said...

@Lisa:: I'll try some attempt at you questions.

1) That's a really good question. I'm thinking that by anointing Richard a sort of advisor, Jacob realized he needed someone else to be candidate. Truth is, we'll likely never know why Richard was not considered a candidate.

2) When Widmore rides into camp and talks to Ben, he tells him he'll be sent back to his people. So I'm assuming that Ben rejoined Dharma until the time came when they conducted the purge. I'm thinking he was sneaking out at night to join the others and learn their way.

3) I doubt it's going to happen, since Richard was talking about the past. I think what he was referring to was the incident. Since he knew everyone was going to the Swan to blow up a bomb, and something happened, then he probably assumed they had died, before he ran into them again!


Those are MY answers, I'm sure there are other possible answers as well!

Teebore said...

@Fred: These unanswered "mysteries" which Darlton said are not mysteries may indicate while they had an overall sketch for the outcome of the show, filling in the gaps may have been a bit ad hoc.

Yeah, I think you're right. Which is fine (filling in the gaps ad hoc), except for the fact that Darlton had changed our expectations such that, aside from things-beyond-their-control (like Eko's departure) or character interactions they didn't see coming (Sawyer and Juliet), the majority of the plot WAS filled in, at least from the point at which the end date was set.

When I watched an episode in season four, and something weird happened, I'd think "maybe this is what's going on. Or this. Oh well, I'll find out eventually, because Darlton have said they have a plan." I was confident, based on interviews they'd given, that unlike a lot of other shows, there WAS an answer to these mysteries waiting for me out there to be revealed at some point.

If Darlton'd never said anything, I'd have just shrugged and said "I hope we get an answer someday, but if not, well, it's TV; stuff happens".

Instead, we were primed to expect a grand, interlocking narrative unlike anything on TV, where we could trust that a plot point left unresolved could be paid off seasons later, because the producers knew the payoff when they introduced it.

Now, it seems like their plan was more of a loose framework then we'd been led to believe, and that Darlton isn't as interested in piecing together the plot elements of the narrative to the extent that some fans want.

Again, my concern isn't that their plan was loose or made up as it went along; my concern is that were explicitly told the plan was elaborately laid out when, in fact, it seems it wasn't.

Again, don't mess with fan expectations like that and then wonder why some fans get upset when what they've been promised doesn't get delivered.

The end of the show has to be substantial to all that happened before, and not just in tone. Right now I feel the myth is playing more to the front, and everything will be answered by appealing to the myth.

Agreed, on both counts. I think, if we accept that "golden light source" = "EM energy with unique properties", it helps create a throughline from all the plot elements of the previous seasons (Dharma, the pregnancy stuff, battle for control of the island) to what's happening now (the candidates fighting to keep Smokey from destroying the world).

Anonymous said...

I don't know if anyone has mentioned yet but:

WHERE IS MILES?

JS said...

@SMieRT - What if the wild card is Ben.
Love that idea. Ben has been training as THE ULTIMATE manipulator and liar his entire life. He was (re)born to do this. I love the idea that he is the anomaly – he is the only one that wasn’t on the plane that has woken up so far. (I am hoping we don’t see Shannon, because that would mess up the symmetry.)

@Tiasabita - Why did the camera show us a closeup of Flocke's shoes as he was getting out of the outrigger at the dock?
You know, I did notice the hush puppies, and that harkens back to the whole shoes-off-shoes-on thing he did last season (?) with Ben. I won’t start that discussion again, but I think it will come back on Sunday.
Also, Ben has always hated Widmore, but thanks for reminding me that Widmore getting a personal visit and invitation from Jacob (what about me!?!) put him over the edge.

Charles said...

I second the recommendation for the new Totally Lost at EW containing the supremely brilliant line:

MILD SPOILER?
>
>
>
>
>
Do you know how much I want to counsel you right now?

Benny said...

@Teebore/Fred: Just a quick thought on the plot points.

I recently saw a short video interview with Damon and Carlton where they said, had they talked to themselves from the previous year, the plot would have been identical -they were heading to the same place - but how they achieved specific deliveries/mysteries would have surprised their former selves.

Their overarching story is the same, but how they tell it episode by episode is loosely built as they go along, constrained by a single plot/story needed to be completed.

JS said...

@Hutch - …BUT what if Jack was married to Zoe in the sideways world?...
THAT would be disgusting.

Rainier said...

@Gracie: If I did not like people because they were flawed (even sometimes deeply flawed), I would never like anyone at all. And I think that is the problem I have always had with your opinion that we were not "supposed" to like the characters at the beginning. I think the writers knew damned good & well that there were things t like in all of the characters at the outset (well, except maybe Shannon...) and that pretty much every viewer would be able to identify with the flaws in at least one character, and would like them almost automatically. So I do not believe that we were supposed to dislike them all in the beginning.

Gracie said...

Have we mentioned yet that Widmore finally got his from Ben, now we know who the real "Boy" is, and Dirty Zoe is hanging her head literally? OMG! LOL Finally! All by themselves, those two things made the whole episode an A+ for me.

Lisa(until further notice) said...

@Anonymous: I just watched the ep again, and, even though Miles said he was going to make a run for it in the jungle, I never saw him leave Ben's house. Is there a back door? Maybe Miles finds Frank washed up on shore. YAY!!! Come on Sunday!!!

Rainier said...

His soul is so good and humble and pure! Yes, he would do it, depending on what it is, but could he? I honestly don't know. He would just be beyond devastated to have to be in that position. (Honestly, would the writer's do that to Hurley? OUR Hurley? He's so good to his core! Compared to Hurley, Jacob wouldn't know good if it bit him in the a$$!)

And that is precisely why I would want it to be Hurley. If this golden light is so freaking important, than I want an honest-to-gods-good-guy guarding it, not someone who sees other people as a means to his end. And maybe, if they get rid of Smokey, he would not have to be so concerned about finding a replacement (maybe one would just eventually wash ashore? Could happen...)

VW: scali - a texture, often found on lizards and snakes

Loretta said...

@Rainier:I think the writers knew damned good & well that there were things t like in all of the characters at the outset (well, except maybe Shannon...) and that pretty much every viewer would be able to identify with the flaws in at least one character, and would like them almost automatically.

Agree completely.

JS said...

Re: who helped Desmond out of the well - I guess it wasn't Sayid, since he told Jack he could find Desmond at the well. Hmm, who could it be? Claire? Miles? though I don't think he knew about Des.

Rainier said...

@JS: But he didn’t pluck them out of the ST, he plucked them out of the OT. They are different people, and in the ST, they seem to have better lives. I think the end of LOST will involve having their consciousness merged, and they end up in the ST.

Yes, he plucked them out of the OT, and because he did so, because of his influence in their lives, they are what they are in the OT instead of what they are in the ST. He makes them into those people (at least in some cases.)

Fred said...

@Benny & Teebore:the plot would have been identical -they were heading to the same place - but how they achieved specific deliveries/mysteries would have surprised their former selves.

I had always thought from what I had read about the conception of the show when Abrams was first brought in that there was a guide for how it would work out, a sort of Coles' Notes to LOST written by Abrams and Lindelhof early on before even the pilot was shot. Given there's a basic skeletal plot to the show, writers could fill in any gaps, and depending on how many episodes would be bought or whatever ABC wanted for the season, the epsidoes could be expanded or contracted as demand had to be met. Which is why with the writers' strike in Season 4, the episodes were stripped down to the main plot lines to ensure they kept to telling what they wanted that Season, rather than have the story arc for Season 4 carry over into season 5. Had there been no strike, I'm sure Season 4 would have given us a lot more of the background of the Kahana people, such as Captain Gault and Keamey.

But does that mean that all the story elements are interlocking as Teebore (and myself) hopes for? I doubt it, as LOST is not a detective story like Holmes were all the clues and narrative bits fit together into one seamless whole. That may have to do more with the nature of television, and executives' desire to run programs into multiple seasons beyond reason, like they did with X-Files. After Season 3, with a firm commitment in hand from ABC, Darlton could allow the plot's outline to show through the fabric of the storyline. By providing an endpoint, not only did it allow the plot to emerge, but it saved LOST from becoming a shaggy dog story.

Fred said...

Some think Ben is secretly working for MiB's demise, but I am beginning to question that. He was ready to give up Widmore and Zoe at the drop of a hat, and even after they were killed, he readily asked MiB who else there was to kill. In this respect, Ben has become MiB's assassin, much as Sayid was Ben's. And Sayid was because he wanted to rid the world of people who had some hand in Nadia's death; similarly, Ben wanted to get rid of Widmore because of Alex's death (having Miles walk over her grave reminded the audience of Ben's motivation and hatred for Widmore).

It's also clear MiB needs to kill everyone on the island, or at least the candidates. But if Jack is the new Jacob, does that place all the other candidates (Sawyer, Kate and Hurley) in reserve or nullify their candidacy? In other words, is MiB just after Jack, now? And why doesn't Ben see the danger in his position, that if MiB has to rid the island of everyone, then that means himself too. (MiB's use of Desmond may be to shove him down the cave, where Desmond would explode and sink the island--would Desmond do this willingly because he thinks this will defuse Smokie? It might be Jack's idea, and if he convinces Desmond, Desmond might go for it).

We also got confirmation of an idea we had for some time that Ben was going to the shack and receiving messages from MiB. This might suggest the Purge was from MiB. But it would have taken place while Widmore was still in charge, so Ben was not yet in control of the Others. So the Purge would still have been Jacob's idea, as passed through Richard to Widmore.

And let's be honest, Jacob is a really bad planner. If Widmore is to be believed that he talked off island with Jacob, then what did Jacob expect from Widmore's plan? Did he even think it might succeed? Widmore's plan fell more than flat. Which also raises another question--was the attack from the Kahana also part of Jacob inspiring Widmore? I'm guessing Widmore may have had his talk with Jacob before he sent Abaddon to collect Daniel, Charlotte and Miles, and Keamy to the island. Jacob's backing of Widmore has proven to be very poor--and now Jacob just bows out. Personally, I am a little disappointed in Jacob's skills, and can see for Mother that he really was a second best choice--Jacob's brother was the first choice.

TMClancy said...

Sorry if I'm repeating, but we also saw Hurley in Sideways when Locke is fired, goes to his van, and Hurley's Hummer is blocking his entrance door. Hurley directs Locke to Rose to apply for another job.

lowercase dan said...

well, i think some of the mysteries were ansered and nobody realizes it because the answers are underwhelming. That's not meant as a criticism. For example, we wanted to know about cursed child births and we saw the fertility statue destroyed by the Black Rock. That might be all the explanation that we get.

Also, the Ben timeline is hard to rectify, but we do have two seperate realities to compensate for. Since the past was altered twice (changed so that the incident caused 815 to crash, and then changed again so it never happened), there will be times where we're not sure which timeline the Ben incindetns happened in. At least that'
s how I look at it.

So there are three realities, in a way because the 'restored' reality is in fact a new, third reality and not the original one.

JS said...

@Fred – Jacob is a really bad planner … Widmore's plan fell more than flat. I agree Jacob seems like a bad planner, but I think even you may have said earlier, our expectations of him being most knowing and fairly powerful have been proven to be too high. I don’t even think Jacob is as good a planner as MiB or Ben. He can’t lie. But his plans seem fairly straightforward. If what Jacob needed was to have Widmore get Desmond to the island, then that was accomplished. Widmore clearly intended to be the hero that would make everything happen, but then he had to go hide in his arch enemy’s closet, so you do have a point about his planning skills. Widmore isn’t as good a planner as he believes himself to be either.
Also, remember Widmore said Jacob visited him AFTER the Kahana was blown up, so that wasn’t necessarily part of Jacob’s plan.

The Shout said...

Late again to the party...

I was a little disappointed we didnt get to see Whitmore's backstory before his death. When he announced that Jacob had visited him, I felt like there was a missing episode somewhere in the ABC vaults. We'll never know why was hell bent on finding The Island again - was it so he could exploit it somehow? or did he want to be the next Jacob? Why did he want to kill everyone on The Island? and why the sudden conversion to the good guys side? I would have liked to be shown what happened rather than told.

On another point, for me the simplest answers are often the most powerful. I think a lot of people watching The Matrix Reloaded for the first time can agree with that. Darlton even said as much in their podcast last week. The one thing I'm hoping for in the finale, more than answers, is that it delivers an emotional punch.

Benny said...

@Rainier: I agree that Hurley is pure enough. But I think there is an innocence/naivete to Hurley which would make it easy to use against him. I think he would be a god choice in terms of being dedicated to the purpose, but in the same vein, that could be his undoing.

Someone pure evil would be a big no. Sure he would go to any length to achieve his goal, but he probably would not care/be dedicated enough.

I think the need for someone grey, who would be dedicated to the end, but would also be willing to cross some boundaries to achieve his goal, is the perfect balance.

@Fred: By providing an endpoint, not only did it allow the plot to emerge, but it saved LOST from becoming a shaggy dog story.

Agreed

@lowercase dan: But the statue was destroyed in 1867, while there were successful pregnancies and births in the 1970's (Amy/Ethan, Miles, maybe Charlotte?)

My own thought is the the EM and nuclear energies from the incident are impacting the development of pregnancies, preventing them to get past the second term.

Teebore said...

@lowercase dan: For example, we wanted to know about cursed child births and we saw the fertility statue destroyed by the Black Rock. That might be all the explanation that we get.

Except that the statue was destroyed when the Black Rock arrived, well before 1977, and we saw Ethan be born successfully in 1977. So the fertility problems had to have started after that.

Personally, I buy Benny's idea that the Incident's release of some EM energy caused the problem.

Of course, it'd be nice if the actual writers of the show would tell us what they thought caused the problem when they first wrote about it, but whatever.

@The Shout: On another point, for me the simplest answers are often the most powerful.

Agreed. I really like the "why Kate was crossed off" answer, and the further implication that there is no universal criteria for losing candidacy.

I think a lot of people watching The Matrix Reloaded for the first time can agree with that. Darlton even said as much in their podcast last week.

See, this is where Darlton and I disagree (and where me and a lot of other fans do as well): I didn't *mind* the Architect scene. It was clunky and heavy handed and brought the pace of the film's climax to a grinding halt, but the fact that someone tried to sit down and explain what the heck was going on didn't bother me.

What bothered me is that the explanations were still clear as mud after the scene ended. It was still unclear what, exactly, was going on. I didn't object to an "info download" scene; I just object to one that does a crappy job of downloading the info.

The one thing I'm hoping for in the finale, more than answers, is that it delivers an emotional punch.

Me too. Especially since hoping for answers would just leave me more disappointed than I'd like.

Zora-Link said...

So I totally thought that sawyer said "flock" >_< wanted it to be true. I think it would be hilarious if Ben and Rousseau got together, one big happy family. I like sideways Ben better then regular Ben, I keep thinking he's going to do the right thing then he shot Whitmore in the chest, bad Ben *wags finger*. Sooooo happy that it was jack :P. I didn’t think Zoe was so bad, kind of sucks she’s dead :/
Only ONE MORE EPISODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am about to explode with anticipation, and it might as well have been on Tuesday anyway because I can’t watch it until then >_<

Teebore said...

@Fred: But does that mean that all the story elements are interlocking as Teebore (and myself) hopes for? I doubt it, as LOST is not a detective story like Holmes were all the clues and narrative bits fit together into one seamless whole. That may have to do more with the nature of television, and executives' desire to run programs into multiple seasons beyond reason, like they did with X-Files. After Season 3, with a firm commitment in hand from ABC, Darlton could allow the plot's outline to show through the fabric of the storyline. By providing an endpoint, not only did it allow the plot to emerge, but it saved LOST from becoming a shaggy dog story.

Ah, but see, I (and I'd like to think, some other viewers, at least) were led to believe (or erroneously assumed) that Lost WAS 'a detective story like Holmes were all the clues and narrative bits fit together into one seamless whole', at least certainly after the end date was established and it became known that Lost WOULDN'T have to worry about network suits and policies and desires meddling with the creators' narrative intentions.

Lost has always been two things: a compelling character drama, and an intriguing mystery story.

If we view Lost as a Holmes story, while a large part of the fun of any Holmes story is Holmes himself (he is one of fiction's greatest character) and trying to figure out "whodunit", part of the fun is also in learning who, in the end, did it, and whether the deductions and assumptions the reader made based on the evidence presented matched up with Holmes' deductions.

Now, as Lost comes to a close, we're being told that we were wrong to ever think Lost was a detective story like Holmes, that telling us "whodunit" was never the creators' intentions, despite the show operating for five seasons, at least in part like a very traditional mystery story.

So in the end, we're left, to continue the analogy, with a Holmes story featuring a great character and all the fun of deciphering whodunit, but no resolution to the mystery. We have no way of knowing if our deductions match Holmes' deductions, and thus, we're missing part of the fun.

It's not enough for me to know who *I* think did it; I want to know who actually did it.

After all, it's not MY story, it's the creators' story.

Gracie said...

@Anyone: I haven't read all the comments yet, but can anyone give me any information on the live simulcast set for tomorrow? I guess since they're selling tickets to it at theater's, we, The Regular Viewers, are not going to be able to hear it on-line anytime soon. Does anyone happen to know if or when it's going to be available to their Adoring Public? I'm just looking for general information, and I have a feeling the whole world can hear it when we no longer have a burning desire to do so.

Regarding this next item: PLEASE NO SHOVING. THERE'S ROOM FOR EVERYONE! :o)

If nobody has posted this, or "you all everybody" is unaware, "Geronimo Jack's Beard" weekly Podcast is up, and ready to be listened to, which is where I currently be. A little FYI for those so inclined: Strike me dead if I'm kidding here too: HENRY IAN CUSICK is the special guest.

Fred said...

@Teebore:Now, as Lost comes to a close, we're being told that we were wrong to ever think Lost was a detective story like Holmes, that telling us "whodunit" was never the creators' intentions, despite the show operating for five seasons, at least in part like a very traditional mystery story.

Does that make Darlton's vision of LOST a bit of a failure? In many years from now, we may come to appreciate LOST in a different way than we at first did (or expected), and given this shift we may see it as a success. But if we still feel there was an intention on the part of the writers to believe LOST was like a Holmes detective fiction, then we may say the show was less successful.

Was Claire's desire to be reunited with Aaron enough to keep her alive, given Jacob's answer for striking Kate off the candidate list because she was a mother to Aaron? Or did MiB keep Calire alive because she was useful, such as when he needed someone to cross a line of ash? We have to wait till Sunday to see what fate befell Claire.

Teebore said...

@Fred: Does that make Darlton's vision of LOST a bit of a failure? In many years from now, we may come to appreciate LOST in a different way than we at first did (or expected), and given this shift we may see it as a success. But if we still feel there was an intention on the part of the writers to believe LOST was like a Holmes detective fiction, then we may say the show was less successful.

For now, yeah, I'd say it does make Darlton's vision of Lost a bit of failure.

The extent of it will, of course, be ultimately determined by the finale, personal tastes, and time.

Nurse Brian said...

@Blam: *ba-dum ching* You sir are a barrel of laughs.

By the by, I passed my Obstetrics final!

Studying for my Pediatrics final now! Thanks for the laugh Blam! The other nursing students that are studying with me had a nice little laugh with me too!

WV: subdull - Highly under-par moment

Gracie said...

Fred said: "Or did MiB keep Claire alive because she was useful, such as when he needed someone to cross a line of ash?"

I honestly could not tell you to what degree I am kidding here, but I still think that if ole Smokey is physically capable of procreation, he is keeping Claire alive to make Little Smoke Rings or Smokettes. Probably not, but why else would he put up with her for all of this time unless there was a specific, personal reason to do so? If we are to assume, as I think most of us are, that Smokey has gotten MIB's essence, the very things that made him a man, without benefit of the body, couldn't he have gotten whatever MIB did possess that we would recognize as an ability to feel love and want to be loved in return? If everyone wants to disagree, I understand that, but couldn't it love? As we knew him, MIB DID, at one time, love his Mother! This is not something completely unknown to the man although it is to the Monster. Smokey seems to be able to follow Locke's feelings regarding everything else; why not love?

Teebore said...

@Fred:Does that make Darlton's vision of LOST a bit of a failure?

I'm going to throw this out there and run, but warily, as it makes me sound WAY more down on Lost than I really am right now.

Here is where their vision fails for me: While I am excited to go back and watch the show from the beginning to see how everything fits together, I have a less burning desire to do so because now I know everything WON'T fit together.

And I was led to believe, before the dawn of the sixth season, that by at least the end of the show, it would all fit together.

Sure, I'm be able to fit all the pieces together into some semblance of a story, but in the end, that'll be MY story of how the pieces fit together, and I'm more interested in DARLTON'S story. Lost is, after all, their story to tell, not mine. It's their responsibility to fit it all together, not the audience's.

For me, trying to figure out a mystery is fun, but only if, at some point, I'm told whether or not I did figure it out.

Leaving it me (or any other viewer) to explain how all the dropped storylines, unexplained events, random bits and vague explanations fit together strikes me as leaving the show feeling a bit too much like fan fiction for my taste.

(And bear in mind, I'm speaking only of the show's plot/mystery elements. Things like theme, meaning, character motivation, etc. I most definitely want left open to interpretation. That's the kind of interpretation I LOVE to do with texts.)

lowercase dan said...

BTW, does anyone think Ben has actually reverted (I don't, but who knows, lol)? It was great to see Ben back in his killing ways again. It would seem like he is manipulating Smokey (turnabout is fair play, and he kind of hinted as much with his earlier comments at the hidden closet of mystery about MiB making Ben think that he was in charge).

Killing Whitmore makes it look like he is reverting back, except he was always a manipulator and not a blind follower. And he wanted Whitmore dead, so it's not like it broke his heart to pretend to interpret that he was brought to kill Whitmore. And saying it was for his daughter would remove doubt that he was trying to stop MiB from learning about Desmond.

This raises a question: what about their agreement and the rules of not hurting each other. That was obviously not true. So what about the other agreement between MiB and Jacob not to kill candidates? Was that also just a gentlemanly agreement that can be broken at any time?

Susan said...

Teebore, I am with you on your last 3 posts. You said it so well that all I can do is agree with you.

Joan Crawford said...

Well said, Mr.Teebore.

Gracie said...

Kotowski said: "People keep asking me if I'll be okay when "Lost" ends. I think about this, and say "Of course it's bittersweet that it's ending, but I am happy that it never went overboard or got lame or lost its creativity." I believe this series to be one of, if not THE most creative, original work of any medium ever. And when they ask me what I'll do when it's over, I simply respond "This is why I own the seasons on bluray." I plan on watching the series once or twice per year, and this show will ALWAYS have a place in my heart for being the series that showed me not only how entertaining storytelling can be, but also how important. I don't believe "Lost" will ever be surpassed in my mind, and I'm grateful to the endlessly talented cast and crew that brought this beautiful story into my life when I was just in the 8th grade. All I can say is that it's been the most entertaining six years of my life, and I can't even think of how my life was without "Lost". These characters have become a part of who I am, and I love them deeply. They say that whatever happened, happened, and thank God that "Lost" happened."

Dearest Kotowski: I believe that if you look at your reply to "people", you will notice that you did not answer the question. I believe the question was, "Will you be okay when "Lost" ends?

Seeing as how all of us can relate to your current predicament, "Will you, in fact, be okay when Lost ends?"

One Of Your Fellow Lostaddictaholics, And Hopefully, Your Friend:
Gracie

Fred said...

@Gracie:I honestly could not tell you to what degree I am kidding here, but I still think that if ole Smokey is physically capable of procreation, he is keeping Claire alive to make Little Smoke Rings or Smokettes.

One of the necessary traits of all living things is procreation. I'm not sure whether the writers had this in mind--sex in biology is a must; sex in science fiction is something to skirt away from. Sex is one of those things science fiction writers tend to shy away from, and when it does get presented it is often presented from a distance or as comedic value (i.e. Sleeper by Woody allen has the orgamsatron as a future device, which serves as comedic relief and as a talking point about "true" human relationships). Michael Rymer says it may be because most science fiction is aimed at teenage boys, so a scantly clad babe seems sufficient (think Princess Leia clad in a bikini for Jabba the Hut's amusement). Since the target audience of LOST was mid-twenties and older, sex can be a greater part of the storyline, and a more visceral form of it. But on the whole, LOST still manages to shoot more people/guns and blow up more things than sexual encounters (ahhh, if only Dr. Freud could interpret all those explosions as just sublimation--and, really, if there is so much sublimation going on in the show, isn't that a sign of neurosis? So, allowing Dr. Freud to continue, wouldn't that make Smokie a neurotic).

Kidding aside, what you raise is most likely never to happen, but it is an interesting idea. And I would trace that idea back to the vampire novels, the romance of the undead with the living, and vice versa. Smokie is closer to the genre of vampires than say to Frankenstein. The whole notion of seduction, the way Smokie seduces people by offering them what they desire is akin to vampires (a premise in Anne Rice's Interview with the Vampire).

So I think you're onto something, only there isn't enough time with one show left to imagine anything like that (fan fiction, maybe). I can't imagine Smokie and Claire driving out of LA, like the ending in Blade Runner.

Anonymous said...

@Nikki, you MUST listen to Geronimo Jack's Beard this week. SPECIAL guest star........

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