Tuesday, February 09, 2010

6.03 What Kate Does

“We believe he has been... claimed.”
I wasn’t so sure this episode had much going for it in the first part, but by the end it had really picked up steam, and I enjoyed a lot of what happened with it. But I will admit... in a final season where they have SO much to wrap up, I’m a little nervous about an episode that just seemed to raise a billion more questions without answering any of them. And yet... intrigued.

For me the most important line is the one above, spoken by Dogen. “Claimed” suggests that Sayid’s body has been taken over by someone (or something) else. We all assumed last week it was Jacob, and maybe the Temple dwellers assume it’s the Man in Black, and that he’s the bad dude. Watching Sayid hooked up to the electrocution device and seeing him getting stabbed with a hot poker made me think, “Wow... karma’s a bitch.” But they were using these torture instruments diagnostically. How? Could they have been seeing if the thing that Sayid’s body is hosting would jump out? Did they think he’d start talking in tongues? Or was it something more physical and less supernatural than that?

More importantly was Dogen’s comment about the darkness getting to Sayid’s heart and how it would change him utterly and turn him into a dark thing. We saw sweet little Ben Linus get shot by Sayid and taken to the Temple. The next we saw of him he was in Alpert’s tent and Widmore came to see him, and, like Sayid, Ben just looked at him and said, “What happened?” And that’s the last we see of Ben. By the looks of that scene, the Temple hadn’t changed Ben that much. But what if it did... and the darkness just hadn’t gotten to his heart yet? What if a few days later he was already the sociopath that we love to hate? If Sayid really has turned himself into the very same dark entity that Ben Linus is... well then, karma really IS a bitch.

I’ve been saying for a few months now that we should look at that scene on the beach from the end of S5 as if Jacob were the bad guy, and the Man in Black the good. What if Dogen actually knows that, and the “thing” that he’s trying to keep out now that Jacob is gone isn’t actually Smokey at all (despite Aldo thinking that) but the spirit of Jacob himself? Could Jacob be the evil that’s infecting these people?

And what about Claire? Is Aldo right about her being claimed (in which case, did she really die in the house explosion in “The Shape of Things to Come” like many of us wondered at the time?) or is he wrong, and she’s just turned into Claireseau?

That Ultrasound!
So... is this a production error or a suggestion that in the new timeline, Flight 815 actually left a month later? Claire’s ultrasound readout clearly says the date is 10/22/2004, which puts the flight in October, NOT September. (It also says it’s 9:29 in the morning, and considering it’s probably been a few hours of Kate and Claire running around and it’s been broad daylight the entire time... this is probably yet ANOTHER prop error.) So... prop error or hint that even the date is different?

Highlights:
• Arzt: “Hey, I’m walkin’ here, I’M WALKIN’ HERE!” HAHA! Oh, how I love seeing Arzt again. Can we lobby to make him a member of the cast?!
• Miles: “As you can see, Hugo here has assumed the leadership position, so... that’s pretty great.” HAHA! Miles is high-larious in this episode.
• Aldo: “Is this a press conference?” Aldo was a complete dick, but there’s something about that line that made me laugh. It also made me think that Kate’s actually been in a REAL press conference as part of the Oceanic 6.
• Miles: “We’ll be in the food court if you need us.”
• Ethan!! And he’s a Goodspeed the way he was supposed to be, not a Rom! He never became an Other because Amy was probably evacuated right before the island sank.
• Did anyone else absolutely ♥ the adorable ring that Sawyer was going to give to Juliet? I would have loved that ring. From Desmond.
• Claire!!

Answers:
• So much for answers every week!

Did You Notice?:
• Poor Claire... welcome to the US of A, darlin. She must have been thinking, “Holy CRAP I thought all of those people who warned me about the dangers of America were bananas, but they were RIGHT!!”
• I was totally expecting Claire to jump out of the cab and not be pregnant, but I was so relieved when she was.
• There go all our Thelma and Louise fantasies about Claire and Kate.
• The insanely cold way Kate acted in the car (especially scaring the bejeezus out of Claire) made me think that in this reality, she lacked the heart that always seemed to be her fatal flaw (going to see her mom, wanting that little plane because of Tom). But when she opened the bag and found Claire’s stuff, the look on her face told me that no, this is the same Kate we’ve loved since season 1. Maybe being on the run in this reality just made her a little harder in that scene than she usually is.
• The car mechanic that gets rid of Kate’s cuffs played Rack, the evil magicks dealer to Willow on Buffy. Interestingly, he tells Willow that she tastes like strawberries, which is what Sawyer told Kate she tasted like.
• The killer whale doll! Do you remember that? It’s from “Something Nice Back Home.” As Jack’s going completely ballistic on Kate because of some phone call that he thought might have something to do with Sawyer and he’s about to leave them, just as he says, “You’re not even RELATED to him!” Aaron comes walking out into the kitchen and he’s standing there holding the whale doll. Kate would have bought that for him, and in this reality Claire’s the one who got it for him. (It’s a clear reminder of the black and white theme on the show.)
• This is the first time Jin’s weighed in on the Jack-Kate-Sawyer-Juliet quadrangle, asking Kate point blank what exactly she plans to do when she catches up with Sawyer. I feel kinda bad for Kate... earlier she thought she was “saving” Jack by going to New Otherton, only to find out he’d planned to leave the island with Juliet. Now she’s off to save Sawyer, only to find out that he’d planned to marry Juliet. Looks like Kate’s the Other Woman this time... not Juliet.
• You know how in The Fly the guy steps into the machine with a fly and their DNA get crossed? I think that happened with Sawyer and Jack when they time-jumped together... some of Jack’s Jears rubbed off on the new Emo Sawyer.
• Ethan: “I don’t want to stick you with needles if I don’t have to.” Ha!! I loved that reference to season 1.
• The moment Claire said “Aaron,” there was a moment of recognition with Kate. It’s like that name was something that cut across timelines with her, and she knew how important he was supposed to be to her.
• Emo Sawyer becomes Emo Desmond!! I actually said out loud, “Throw it! Throw it like Desmond!” And then he did... You know, I’ve decided I need to take up deep-sea diving. I figure there’s a freakin’ wealth of engagement rings from romances gone wrong at the bottoms of various bodies of water. I’ll start with the Thames and then go to the island.
• Dogen is playing with a baseball when Jack walked in the room, a reminder of his dad’s comment, “That’s why the Red Sox will never win the World Series.” Which begs the question: in the other timeline, will the Red Sox win the World Series?
• Dogen says to Jack that he needs to remain separate from his people, because it makes it easier when he makes decisions they don’t like. As much as I loathe having to remind anyone of the events of “Stranger in a Strange Land,” this reminded me of the Jack tattoo that “Woman From the Others Who We Never Saw Again and Seemed to Have Been A Mistake At the Time Before the Writers Had Truly Worked Things Out” said meant, “He walks among us, but he is not one of us.”
• Dogen’s name comes from Dōgen Zenji, who was a Zen Buddhist master of one of the three sects of Japanese Buddhism. He lived in the thirteenth century.
• Ethan said the baby moved a lot, but he moves WAY too much for a baby that’s 36 weeks along. First, he shouldn’t be lying on his side like that; at 36 weeks they’re so big they’re either head-down (the way they’re supposed to be) or head up (the way mine was when my ob started screaming for a c-section). It’s not impossible for a baby to be lying like that, but that’s more what you’d see at the 20-week ultrasound, not at the end. But more importantly, on the ultrasound monitor the baby’s head was on the left side of the screen; on the printout, it was on the right. That is one athletic baby. ;)
• The detective who comes into the room is Detective Rasmussen. I did a quick check on that name and it said it’s a Danish name that translates to “Erasmus’s son.” Erasmus was the leader of the German humanist movement, which promoted scholarship of the ancients (now called Humanities). He was a Catholic priest and a brilliant, albeit vain, man. Could this be some indication of Aaron’s possible future?
• Kate’s used the name “Joan Hart” before. I think it was in the flashback where she dyes her blonde hair back to the original brown and then asks the guy at the hotel front desk for any letters to Joan Hart.
• Apparently the “darkness” affects your eyes... despite wandering the jungle for years, Claire has eyeliner on. Gasp!! Has Richard Alpert been infected by the darkness, too?!

The Numbers:
On my first rewatch of the episode, my son woke up crying when there were 42 minutes left. The license plate on the taxicab that Kate steals is 4DQS554. (There are two 4s in that, and D is the 4th letter of the alphabet.) The time of the ultrasound is 9:24:42.

So Many Questions...
• So, last week Lennon and his thugs insisted that Jack HAD to come with them immediately, and he had to come alone. And yet this week that urgency is gone and they’re no longer asking him to come. Why did they need him so badly last week? I assumed Christian was waiting in a back room to talk to him, and yet this week it’s like they no longer care about him.
• Who changes their mind about an adoption and totally DOESN’T TELL THE SURROGATE MOM?! Especially when she was going to take a 16-hour flight to ge to them? I was hoping Kate would pistol-whip that woman.
• In the original timeline that we saw before, many of us speculated that there was no adopting family on the other side, and Richard Malkin simply knew that flight was going to crash and he put Claire on it, forcing her to have to raise Aaron on her own. Does the adopting mom on the other side suggest that Malkin really was telling the truth, or did this change as a result of the different timeline?
• Wouldn’t there have been a more convenient place to hide an engagement ring than under floorboards Sawyer would have to rip up with a crowbar?
• I know this will be completely insane, but did anyone else think Sawyer looked a little paunchy? Or is it just the unflattering sweatshirt that he’s wearing?

Next week:

247 comments:

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Marebabe said...

Once again, I was pleasantly surprised by Ethan’s appearance in the hospital, because when William Mapother’s name rolled by in the opening credits, I was intent on the unfolding story, and not the words at the bottom of the screen. (The other time was when we realized Frank was the pilot of Ajira flight 316.)

Josh Holloway’s acting skills have sure developed in the course of this show. I was right there with him on the dock as he mourned Juliet’s loss.

It’s so nice that we can always count on the Miles and Hurley Show for some much-needed humor. At least, I think it’s needed.

I was very surprised to feel a little twinge of mystery-fatigue this evening. Didn’t expect that. Not that I would consider for a moment bailing on this wonderful show. I’m totally invested, as you know. But for a few minutes there, I felt I could understand the people who gave up in S3.

And on a personal note, guess what? Nah, you’ll never guess. This coming Monday, February 15th, my husband and I will celebrate our 35th anniversary! Folks in the real (face-to-face) world usually call us Larry and Mary, but online we still answer to MiraklMax and Marebabe. I just wanted to share our happy news. (Where HAS the time gone?)

EamonnToGetLost said...

If Richard has never seen the island bring someone back to life, and if these temple Others were very surprised by Sayid’s seeming resurrection…how was Sayid resurrected in the first place? And why were the Others so surprised by it? They should be knowledgeable in all things island. If something like that can happen on the island, you think they would have known about it.


That was my initial thought. Now, let me slightly amend it. I think they have seen this before…it’s just very rare. And it’s not a genuine resurrection. Sayid is alive, but it losing himself to whatever this darkness is. He’s being artificially kept alive by it. So, if this process already happened to Claire…then the true Claire we know and love is gone :( and Sayid is headed down the same path :( :(


Sayid’s test. FAIL – Sick. The SICKNESS. If Jack doesn’t give Sayid the pill, Sayid will no longer be Sayid. Like Robert and the rest of Danielle’s team were no longer themselves. THEY had no pill. Not that they would have taken it anyway.


Was that Danny Pickett? Temple Guard? The guy on the right when Jack said “step aside”. Sure looked a lot like him. If it is…how could that be possible? He died in this same reality, when Juliet shot him on the beach as he was going after Sawyer and Kate back in season 3.


Is Thomas the husband in the couple that was gonna adopt Aaron?


What was in Sawyer’s shoebox?


Josh Holloway’s acting near the end. SUPERB. I totally got choked up!


In the alternate reality, they’re all remembering little glimpses of the island reality. That’s pretty obvious. (Charlie: “I should’ve died”, Claire just “knowing” Aaron’s name. The brief, knowing looks that Jack and Kate etc have had so far in the other reality.) I also think one reality can be affected by the other. Where did Jack get that cut on his neck? Probably during the incident…which was in the island reality. I’m sure there are other examples of this concept but I can’t remember any of them right now.


I predict that someone will find a way to cross over from one reality to the other…and I think that person will be John Locke. The real John Locke. He will find some way to cross over from this other reality to the island reality, and thus he will be alive again on the island. Maybe he’ll even get in a fist fight with his doppelganger aka MIB/Smokey. That would be something to see…lol


So…this darkness that spread and claimed Claire…and made her into something she’s not? I’m almost certain the same thing happened to Danielle. But what is this “darkness”? Is it related to Smokey? Or is it something else? Jacob? I’m becoming more convinced that Jacob is actually the “bad guy”.

Hunter said...

Name suggestion: French Claire.

And yes, Sawyer did look a little heftier.

Benny said...

I think it's completely normal to have a low-intensity show following the packed premiere. Otherwise there would too high expectations. Explode, take it down a little, then bring it up and sustain. End on a bang.

That being said, it's true there wasn't a lot. But it certainly is starting to expand on the sickness/quarantine issue. The premiere and this episode (and maybe next) are, I believe, setting up what the focus and the right questions to ask will be.

Just as the script direction for Matthew Fox was "awkward comfort" I think, the same seemed true for Eve when she looked at Jack and heard the name Aaron.

Loved Aldo saying "have you noticed a pillar of smoke that makes a Tika Tika sound?"

All I have late after only one viewing. More over the course of the day tomorrow!

SonshineMusic said...

I realized that in all of our discussion of MiB and Smokey, none of us pointed out the French expedition. If it is as we were led to believe, then all of Danielle's team was infected at once and we were led to believe it was by Smokey. Perhaps the infection is something different, but if it is Smokey, then it means that he can imitate/inhabit/control multiple people at one time.

Susan said...

I'm having ideas about this sickness. It seems to happen to people that are dead? And then brings them back to life. Montand was most likely killed by the monster, then the rest of the team heard his voice. They went to investigate, and probably were killed also by the monster. Then they all became infected, and returned to Rousseau who recognized that they were acting differently. She may have been the one who was infected, but I'm thinking of Robert's actions: he said the smoke was a security system, and he tried to kill Rousseau after getting her to put down her gun. And now apparently Claire, who may have actually been killed during the Barracks attack, is supposedly infected, and Sayid, who died from his gunshot wound, is supposedly infected. OK enough thinking out loud.

This episode seemed to go by pretty quickly. Probably the result of following so many storylines: Kate off island, Kate on island, the Temple group, and then Jin splitting from Kate.

Arzt: “Hey, I’m walkin’ here, I’M WALKIN’ HERE!” Reminds me of one of our favorite scenes, when Arzt says "The pigs are walking!" from Expose (I think).

SonshineMusic said...

@Marebabe: Congratulations!

I loved the little Winnie the Pooh stuff in the bag. It kind of made me cry a little to see all the stuff Claire had packed for a baby she wasn't planning on keeping.

and I was totally expecting the woman to look at her and be like, who are you? I wasn't expecting there to be anyone waiting for the baby.

I am sorry, but when they were running that machine on Sayid, all I could hear in my head was Count Rugen saying, "I have just sucked away one year of your life. Some day I might go as high as five, but I really don't know what that would to do you."

When the TOther said that Rousseau had been dead for years, I thought, nuh uh. But then I realized she HAS been dead for years and I got sad all over again. :`(

Hurley: "You're not a zombie, right?" haha. But he might be!

ETHAN!!!!!!!! I was so glad to see his face. (see haiku post :P)

Craziness. I was expecting more answers, but all in all it was satisfying. I feel like they have to set more of this up with the infection and such before they can actually answer any of it.

AchingHope said...

Does the adopting mom on the other side suggest that Malkin really was telling the truth, or did this change as a result of the different timeline?

I was thinkin' the same thing!!

A few thoughts:
1) Why does everyone always tell Miles what to do? :(
2) So much irony in the torturer being tortured
3) I just thought it interesting that there's the scene where Jin leaves Kate in the jungle alone, juxtaposed next to he scene where Claire starts having contractions. It just reminded me of how the first time around (or whatever) Jin was there to help Claire have her baby

@marebabe: awwww... Hooray for you! Here is an invisible cake I made just for you

And I did love that Ethan line (as well as the appearance of Ethan, my sis and I both looked at each other and mouthed ETHAN!

And Ghengis Otherton (or whatever his real name is, Ghengis Otherton is just way more fun to say) saying "I was brought here like everyone else" just struck me as interesting. Everyone? Really? Even Jacob and MiB? Is the island really the one drawing people to the island, despite the conversation between Jacob and MiB?

Susan said...

Marebabe ROFL at Count Rugen!

Susan said...

Oops I meant SonshineMusic!

The Question Mark said...

@Marebabe: Congrats on your upcoming anniversary! Hope you have a blast!

Hmmm...so Claire ends up a crazy jungle girl because she was apparently "infected". When she was in Christian's cabin, she was in a very drug-like daze. Does this mean Sayid is going to do the same thing? Also, is there no saving poor Claire?! I don't want her to be claimed!

NAME IDEA: We should call the new Claire "Clousseau", because it reminds me of the old Pink Panther movies, and since we ARE dealing with a crap-ton of mysteries here, it seems fitting enough. LOL

Lesley C said...

Nikki, I'll agree with you - the episode did not start strong but got better as it progressed.

Discussing this episode afterward with some friends raised the question: Do you have to be baptized/drowned in the temple water to be susceptible to "infection"? I always assumed it was the French team's contact with Smokey that caused the later craziness. (All but Danielle, due to Jin's intervention.) But we don't really know what happened to the other French crew members who went into the temple. What if they took in the waters (so to speak) in a relaxing spa treatment, thereby sowing the seed for an infection that worked its way to their hearts?

That theory works for Sayid and Ben. Could work for Claire, too - we don't know what happened to her while she gamboled about the island for the last 3 years with Christian.

This of course raises other question - Can only living (or dying but still clinging to life) people be infected? If so, why were the dead bodies of Locke and Christian taken over or claimed? And why is Locke (now, Flocke) the only one with two bodies - the dead and the possessed? Could any dead person on the island be possessed? Or just "fresh" ones?

How can a show on its last season keep raising SO many questions?!?!

Joan Crawford said...

So, if this process already happened to Claire…then the true Claire we know and love is gone :( and Sayid is headed down the same path :( :(

Yeah but New Claire kicks ass and she helped protect Jin from the "good guy" who was going to kill him. I for one embrace New Sayid.

VW: Crepid - when your creepiness is mild, or tepid.

Lesley C said...

P.S. LOVED the scene with Sawyer and Kate at the dock. How heart wrenching! And the zombie reference - what a total hoot! Also, Miles gets so many great lines. When will he gets his moment this season??

Joan Crawford said...

@Eamonn - My last comment was supposed to be directed at you :)

JackFan said...

Danielle didn't have the sickness; she just was crazy (and wary) from being alone for 16 years after losing everyone she loved--including her child.

So perhaps Island Claire being "claimed" is not the same as having the sickness?

Also wondering why Jack didn't seem surprised when Dogen referred to his sister. Does Jack already know that Others know about this relationship?

Joan Crawford said...

@Marebabe - Congratulations on 35 years! :D

Joan Crawford said...

So, if Claire has been claimed and she hangs out with Christian - then the Others don't like Christian either? I was really thrilled to see Claire back! She looked hot! You guys thought she looked fat? Lord help me if Claire is fat!

Susan said...

JackFan (me too) Jack did see the file the Others had on him -- Juliet showed it to him. At this point he figures the Others know everything about him.

Joan Crawford said...

Disregard the Claire being fat part - I misread "Sawyer" for "Claire" because, well, I'm an idiot.

And yes, Sawyer has the contented look of domestication now.

EamonnToGetLost said...

Joan, I figured you were directing that to me. It's all good :)

ARTAR said...

"Claireseau" love it!

the episode didnt do much for me until the final fifteen minutes when ethan appeared and past then. im not a huge kate fan and certainly missed desmond, locke, and ben. sawyer sure turned "heel"

looking forward to next episode

EamonnToGetLost said...

In the flash-sideways, I wonder if the island will still work its magic and instantly take away all of Claire's pregnancy weight as soon as she gives birth? Can it reach that far? Especially since it's at the bottom of the ocean? ;)

EamonnToGetLost said...

Nikki, last week you posted your review at 1:08 am. This time it was at 11:33 pm (1+1+3+3 = 8). The island's influence keeps growing!

ARTAR said...

can someone explain to me how the hell kate found claire at that bus stop?

hmmm the ultra sound date ...interesting...do we know for sure that this earth X flight was numbered 815.

Mac returns as Aldo, glad the rest of the Philly gang wasn't there esp Green Man...

will we see anymore of the submerged parallel earth island?

sahm3k said...

Oh c'mon! Its been at least a month since I was last carjacked...

;-) I jest! Love your blog!

sahm3k said...

I still have last weeks season 6 premiere...when Clarie exits the cab, she is pregnant! Really! Check it out, I'm not crazy (shut up voices in my head!)!

Marebabe said...

@Question Mark: Bravo for coming up with Clousseau! That’s pretty choice. Also, my thanks to you and Sonshine and Aching Hope and Joan for the well-wishes. Very sweet of you. And Aching Hope, LOVE the invisible cake! Thanks loads! In the words of Stewie Griffin (in response to a fan letter we sent him), “When I take over the world, your death will be swift and painless.” (*looks behind her*) Where’d THAT come from?! ;)

Hermione said...

Hi Nikki!

I just started reading your blog. As of two days ago, I've been a Doc Jensen only reader for all my info, but I love your recaps! Great job. I totally missed the use of "Goodspeed" as Ethan's last name, but good grief did I scream all sorts of loud when he popped into the scene!

I'm a fan of Dogen. I like him. He just looks cool.

Finally I'm right there with you about being nervous about them interesting a whole new mystery (or an attempt to provide an answer but essentially created a new mystery). However I HAVE TO have faith Darlton knows what their doing. They have too. Otherwise I'll just be sad.

Anyway Just wanted to say great blog! Seems like we share a lot of the same shows (I've seen all the Buffy episodes and Alias...LOVE Alias). My friend has your Lost books, she's a big fan and directed me to your blog. Looking forward to the rest of your recaps for the rest of this final season.

Marebabe said...

@Hermione: Welcome! So glad you could join us. :)

Blam said...


Well, I guess we've seen Sayid's poker face.

The best line:

Ethan: “I don’t want to stick you with needles if I don’t have to.”
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

Replies to Nikki's recap:

I wasn’t so sure this episode had much going for it in the first part, but by the end it had really picked up steam,
Same here. Early on, I said to myself that it felt way too soon in the season for a just-another-chapter episode — the kind that are much more enjoyable when viewing episodes in bunches (a frequent if understandable problem in the last seasons of Buffy and DS9, too). Then we had things perk up a bit both at the Temple and with Claire, as Kate started having the same wide-eyed flashes of near-recognition that Jack had last week.

But I will admit... in a final season where they have SO much to wrap up, I’m a little nervous about an episode that just seemed to raise a billion more questions without answering any of them.
Well, sometimes the answers themselves inherently raise more questions before all is fully explained, but again I'm with you here.

“Is this a press conference?” Aldo was a complete dick, but there’s something about that line that made me laugh.
Me too. Except that at the same time his vernacular and just his voice itself struck me as totally at odds with his wardrobe and general membership in the Knights TemplOther. With the exception of Cindy and other Others who converted and/or returned to the fold (Do we know yet, and I forgot?) after the crash of 815, I got the impression that the Temple-Dwellers didn't visit the outside world the way the Suburban Book-Group Others did.

There go all our Thelma and Louise fantasies about Claire and Kate.
"Our"? Did "we" have these before or after our fantasies about Richard in chains? 8^)

Looks like Kate’s the Other Woman this time... not Juliet.
As soon as I saw Sawyer getting weepy while sitting with Kate on the docks, I realized that, unless Juliet comes back or crosses over or whatever, either Sawyer or Jack is going to have to die a fairly noble, sacrificial death if Kate is going to end up with (the remaining) one of them.

I actually said out loud, “Throw it! Throw it like Desmond!”
Meanwhile, on the beach, the corpses of Nikki and Paulo instinctively flinched, sensing sparkly things up for grabs.

You know, I’ve decided I need to take up deep-sea diving. I figure there’s a freakin’ wealth of engagement rings from romances gone wrong at the bottoms of various bodies of water. I’ll start with the Thames and then go to the island.
Screw the Thames. Go to where they found the Titanic and look for that Heart of Whatever.

Dogen says to Jack that he needs to remain separate from his people, because it makes it easier when he makes decisions they don’t like.
I thought of the tattoo, too. And I was half-expecting Jack to say, "I know what you mean. Well, actually, I know what you say, but not what you mean. I mean... Never mind."

on the ultrasound monitor the baby’s head was on the left side of the screen; on the printout, it was on the right
"And now let's get ready to play... Symbolism! Or! Prop Errorrrrr!"

Claire has eyeliner on. Gasp!! Has Richard Alpert been infected by the darkness, too?!
More importantly, Does this mean we'll see her in chains?

VW: conpast — !!!

Blam said...

Marebabe: Josh Holloway’s acting skills have sure developed in the course of this show.
Yes, indeed.
...
Marebabe: This coming Monday, February 15th, my husband and I will celebrate our 35th anniversary!
Congratulations! My maternal grandparents celebrated their 71st last month — and, even more impressively, both knew it. 8^) Every year for decades now, my grandfather has arranged for a bouquet of an equivalent number of roses plus one to grow on. Apparently it works.

Blam said...

Nikki: Claireseau
Uh-uh... EClaire!

Sagacious Penguin said...

It's funny, but somehow the Sickness returning to the forefront seems very much like an answer to me. Sure we still don't know the details to it all yet, but anytime something that seemed long gone is once more brought into the forefront, I'm a happy man.

Also, I think there was a definite ring of finality here to the infamous Triangle. I feel like Kate and Sawyer's relationship arch was brought to a close for good here with Kate accepting what Sawyer says (that some people are meant to be alone) and heading on her Claire rescue mission alone. The episode IS called "What Kate Does," after all, and that indicates closure to an arch.

Was anyone else THRILLED to have Jack back? This is the first time he's stood up and said "NO, I WILL NOT PUT UP WITH YOUR BULLS**T, ISLAND" since he's returned, and I for one wanted to clap. He took a bullet for Sayid here, and that's the Jack I remember and love from Seasons 1 - 3. Season 4 Jack was unable to look reality in the face and doggedly pushed to get off Island no matter what. Season 5 Jack bitterly realized what an a-hole Season 4 Jack had been and set off on a "wherever the wind blows me" faith-in-the-island-centered return. So I think Juliet's death has woken old Jack up again. And, no, he won't lose the component of faith he gained, but he won't be the wind-blown apathetic douche of yester-season either. Welcome back, Jack!

I thought everything worked great in the episode and felt like more info was given on the Sickness issue than ever before. Yes, more info about Topic X raises more questions about what we still don't know about X, but when the answer comes, we'll have it and all will fall into place. The mere further exploration of these topics gives me that confidence.

Amsted said...

Not really too much to add to thr comments that haven't already been said:

Claire - yea!

Sawyer - awwww...

Kate - uugghh...

Island Claire - oooooooh...

I would like to see a definitive explanation as to why babies and mothers kept dying on the island.

Also, liked Dogen's deadpan delivery of "It's a baseball." to Jack's question.

Blam said...

I was so glad to see his face.
Oh, SonshineMusic.
To each their own, but I just
threw up in my mouth.

Brianne said...

Hooooboy! So ... That was a mildly dissapointing episode. Granted, after reading your recap and reading through everyone's comments I was able to reflect back on the interesting points, like all that talk of darkness and infection, but over all it was kind of a blah episode for me.

BUT, there's allowed to be one dull episode per season (I remember feeling this way after Some Like it Hoth), so I'm willing to forgive it. And, I know that it's probably setting up some major plot points for the future.

Noteworthy Thoughts;
- It was nice to spend some time with some old faces! ... Mostly! Ethan was the main "YES!" moment for me, I'm glad that he got to make his usual unsuspected appearance. Claire was nice to spend some time with, I miss sweet pregnant Claire. Aldo was whiney and will not be missed.
- Honestly, I zoned out a little for most scenes that included Jack or Kate, so ... Like 90% of the episode.
- I can only assume that Sayid's infection, Claire's infection, infection of the french team, Desmond's immunizations, talk of sickness and blah blah blah are all connected, and probably have something to do with Smokey. I do wonder if the "darkness" in Claire and Sayid is also what took Ben's innocence, and if so why he would be so willing to take Ben to the temple.
- For the most part I chalk the "blahness" of this episode up to the lack of Richard, Flocke and Ben, but it looks like next weeks episode might be more promising.
- The dock scene was heart wrenching. Stop making me relive the tragedy of Juliet's death.

SORRY. I'm a rambler!

studiorose said...

All in all, a rather ho-hum episode, sort of droning on peacefully, not adding much info, but then we're smacked across the noggin with moments of pure "WHOA!"

Here we all are, sitting around the temple, not doing much, la, la, la...

Whoa! They tortured Sayid!

Now Claire's at the hospital and not much is going on...

Whoa! Ethan GOODSPEED!

Ho-hum, playin' with a baseball in the temple, just hangin' out...

Whoa! The pill is poisoned!

Walkin' through the jungle for awhile, lookin' for the second plane, ho-hum...

WHOA! Claire!!! Possibly Evil Claire! "E-Claire?!!"

WHOA.

And even though the non-"whoa" parts were pretty slow paced, I have to admit I LURVED the scene in which Sayid trustingly tells Jack he'll take the pill if Jack wants him to. Awwww! (Thank you, Jack, for finally coming to your senses!)

I can't wait to meet the new, evil Sayid. (Or...IS he?!)

Ali Bags said...

@Marebabe I was very surprised to feel a little twinge of mystery-fatigue this evening.

I totally agree with you. I really didn't like the scene where they torture Sayid. Why can't anyone EVER explain ANYTHING without being bloody cryptic?????? I am one of those who doesn't want all the questions to be answered, I usually like a bit of ambiguity in my life but I'm tired, I have indigestion and I found this episode really annoying.

Congratulations by the way.

It strikes me that Darlton made all these jokes last year about the 'Zombie season' and it is turning out that THIS is the zombie season!
That or the S&M season.

Marebabe said...

@Blam: Sayid's poker face?! I don't know whether to groan or applaud. Demand an apology or buy you a drink. The best/worst puns have a way of stirring up conflicting emotions. ;) And I loved the story of your grandparents, God bless 'em! That's so awesome.

@Ali Bags: When Hurley said the Z-word, I too thought of Darlton's faux-promise to have a zombie season. I think that was totally a wink-wink to the fans who listen to the podcasts and read their interviews.

Anonymous said...

Why does anyone take Dogen at his word that Sayid is infected?

It's not like this band of Others is suddenly good or honest. (Did anyone really miss Aldo, or Colleen? At least Ellie and Charles had good accents.)

Sayid was shot, and then lost blood, and survived a nuclear blast, and jumped 30 years in time. That's enough to tire anyone out.

I think they drowned and then poisoned him because once again, he wasn't on Jacob's list.

Ben may have become evil since he was a boy, shot by Sayid, but he is not infected either, not in the wild hair Clare way.

I have a feeling Thelma and Louise time is still to come. Kate will still deliver Aaron, if the universe continues its course correction.

-Wanda

Rufus said...

Oooooooooooo did someone mention cake?????????

So there's the blue pill, the red pill, now what does that green pill do again?

Now now, Sayid wasn't tortured he was touched by a diagnostic tool...;)

Miles has some very good points about leadership but I wish he would fess up about what he hears the dead people saying.

Anonymous said...

My favorite line of the night, which made me laugh out loud:

JACK (to Dogen): Did I just say something that seemed funny to you?

LENNON (answering): I doubt it. He doesn't have much of a sense of humor.

Anonymous said...

Here's one question I hope is answered by the time the show ends: why are the Others such dicks to the Losties? I could somewhat understand their hostile way of approaching the Losties right when they landed, because the Others didn't (maybe didn't) know anything about them. But ever since the group has arrived at the Temple, there's alot of threats, and guns in the face, and hitting and punching and spitting, and I keep wondering why the Others never explain one bloody thing to the Losties, and instead accomplish what they want through sheer violence. By their continual reference to facts about Jack, Sawyer, Kate & Co., it's clear the Others know everything about them, which means the Others also know the Losties have acquired alot of information about the island by the time they arrive at the temple. So why not explain anything? Why not, hey, Jack, would you like to drop in for a cup of green tea, and while he's there, Dogen says 'your friend Sayid might be possessed.' I would love to know what is the motivation, at this juncture, for the Others to continue being so mean and secretive to the Losties.

Pamalamb said...

@ Marebabe: HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!! I hope you and your hubby have a great celebration. 35 years! wow!

Seeing Sawyer's emotion on the dock, I realized how much the character has grown. The old Sawyer would never let himself be that vunerable. The emotion he showed was very heartfelt and was really true to the relationship he had with Juliet. Josh Holloway has really seemed to inhabit this character -- and while we are speaking of Sawyer, why were the temple others so anxious to have him brought back to the temple and kept safe? Is it just so MIB doesn't get him, or is there something special about Sawyer.

It was really fun to see Ethan as a caring doctor, who doesn't want to stick Clare with a lot of needles! Ever since we saw "The Incident" I was wondering if baby Ethan and Amy evacuated with the other women and children. Obviously in the new timeline they did, but what about the old timeline -- did they leave and then come back, or did they never leave?

tv_maniac said...

ETHAN INCONSISTENCY!

Might have already been discussed but here's my rant:

Ethan's on the mainland in LA in the alternate timeline - which makes sense because we know that all the women and children were evacuated from the Island before the bomb went off - so Ethan, who was born the same year as Miles, would've been an infant and thus left the island with Miles and Charlotte. However, if what Daniel said was true that WHAT HAPPENED HAPPENED - and it Ethan, Charlotte, and Miles ALWAYS left the island - then how was Ethan on the island in 2004 when the plane crashed? Alot of people just assumed that he and his mother (Amy) just defected into the Others during the craziness of the Incident but now this seems unlikely - if they had, they would've died in the explosion. Unless, Ethan and Amy ALWAYS left the island but RETURNED before 2004 to work with The Others but this seems a bit unlikely.

Mark R.Y. said...

Sorry for this rant, but I'm worried now.
I'm rather surprised at the good reception this episode is getting here and on Lostpedia. The sixth season is only now underway and there's a great deal more to come, but I'm feeling a bit queasy about how things are going. On the island it's a return to "in the polar bear cages" frustration. ABC run constant ads on how this season of LOST "the time for questions is over," yet all we are getting are more obscurities and contrivances. I'm intrigued with Dogan but I think we'll need six more seasons just to make heads or tails out of what is happening at the temple. And the alternate timeline - 5 years of LOST are tossed out for a completely new storyline. It feels like a spinoff series.
It's early in season 6...so I'll be patient. But I hope we get back to the real story and start getting some focus. I'm not an "answers junkie," but time is starting to run out.

Anonymous said...

"After we've finished with your friend we'll answer any questions you have"

And then of course Jack doesn't ask anything.

So there really is an LA family. I always assumed that the psychic put Claire on 815 because he knew it would crash because she had to "raise the baby herself" or becasue he was in cahoots/paid by the Others/Jacob. But since none of them exist how would she end up on 815? I love/hate this season.

The minute Sawyer appeared on 815 in the premiere in his tight T0shirt my girlfriend immediatly said "Sawyer got fat".

-Tim Alan

flexible said...

I'm sorry Nikki, I'm gonna discuss "shipping" here but it was part of the episode so I think its okay:)Then I will opine on the other bits of the episode in another post.

Did Kate just make her choice and it flew over everyones heads because of the exasperation and anger with how the triangle has been shown over the years? Did something significant happen and only the shippers noticed it? Maybe only the shippers cared but at the end of the day, its a major part of the LOST story whether we like it or not. Jack went in for a kiss there and Kate turned away. Did no one see that? Compared to What Kate Did in season 2, when she went in for the kiss, and then ran from it? Kate told Jack goodbye and said she was going to bring James back but she confessed to Jin that she was escaping. When Jin said, when you find Sawyer, what? She said, "We will figure it out together". Did that escape everyones attention? She lied to Jack and basically abandoned him with the Temple Others. When she got to Sawyer, she blurted out the whole Claire thing and wanted Sawyer to help her. Not Aarons uncle, Jack...but Sawyer.

Ofcourse Sawyer is going to grieve. He wanted to marry Juliet. Kate agreed to marry Jack. Finally, Sawyer says what we all knew "I asked her to stay because I did not want to be alone". You see, this is the problem with the whole Sawyer/Juliet pairing and thats why this whole emo Sawyer is not moving me at all. If Juliet had heard that comment, she would have still detonated jughead. She may not have even stayed. What woman wants to hear that the reason you asked her to stay was because YOU didn't want to be alone. Then he admits his guilt at her death which is in my opinion a lot to do with the extra crying. Ofcourse Sawyer loved Juliet but not in the way she wanted to be loved or the way you love the woman in your life and Juliet knew that. Sawyer, I believe knows that, and thats part of what is eating him up.So, no matter what TPTB do to mess with those of us who saw this as a contrived plot device from the get go, canon ends up revealing, that it was a contrived plot device a la the woman in the refrigerator. Juliets entire existense in season 5 was just to propel the "heros" story forward. Damon Lindelof actually said of the Sawyer/Juliet pairing, in one of the interviews this year, that they were okay with taking the risk because, if people didnt like it, the attitude was "dont worry if you dont like it because 8 episodes later Juliet falls in a hole". What else screams, plot device than that? The fact that some people did like it, does not suddenly make it a predetermined outline in the overall story of Lost.

flexible said...

@Nikki-Its now a ritual for me to come here and see what you noticed first off because it helps me in my process. However, how could one of your highlights not be Sawyer bringing out this so called engagement ring from under the floorboards, under the dresser?! LOL. Surely, when Juliet became an insecure mess, that would have been the time for this ring? in 3 years he was unable to propose and we are to imply that it is this few days that 06 returned that kind of prevented him from proposing? LOL. Pull the other one, TPTB. Thats what happens when storytelling meets afterthoughts. Inconsistensies. Hopefully, this is the end of that! Its done its Lost quota of grieving. 2 episodes a la Charlie. So, now we get snarky Sawyer back which was the whole point of this story arc. Its kinda hard to reconcile this excess grief for a relationship that you wrote to last for 8 episodes and then made 3/4rs of it about the females insecurities of her lovers ex, to the point of taking a fatal decision which cost her her life. Personally, I find it hard to be touched by that and see it as just an "ok, Suliet fans, we give you this, but we stay the course on the story we have been writing for years." I dont buy Sawyer and Juliet. I never did because I saw it for what it was and predicted that Juliet would be killed off and all that has come to pass.... but my not buying it, is no disrespect to those that do.

What Kate does has shown, just like WHH showed, that Kate chooses Sawyer. How they will play out all that, is yet to be seen but I have no more doubts. There will still be Jack and Kate scenes because they share a bond but its not a romantic bond and that was their mistake to think it so. Now sawyer will go off and come to his senses, and Kate will focus on ther number one man in her life, when all is said and done. Aaron. So, hunting of Claire is about to start.

flexible said...

Now, I loved the Kate/Claire alt scenes. I loved that it showed that no matter the timeline, Kate was always going to be connected to the birth of Aaron and to Aaron. Did anyone notice her face when Claire said the name aaron? Almost like it rang a bell. I like that it showed again, that no matter the timeline, badass as Kate can be, she still has a heart. I love the relationship they showed with her and Claire in the alt.

Sayid seems like sayid to me, so this idea of him being claimed, has me worried. I loved the Sayid and Jack scenes and I was happy he told Jack, he trusted him. Jack hasnt had the best start to this season. Everyone blames him. He blames himself and now all of a sudden, Kate hasn't always got his back.

I also enjoyed Kate going all tough chic on Aldo and the other guy. More of that please.

Please, can we have Jin and Sun back together already? I mean, I cant understand the reasoning behind this extended separation. When Jin said Claire, she seemed to be the old Claire, but again, she has been claimed. Now, thats the thing that will be nagging me for a bit till they sort it out. The whole "infection" thing flew over my head :)

What else....that's it I think. I liked the episode. Damon tweeted to those who didnt like it "to those calling this a filler. please watch NAVY NCIS. I wont hold it against you". LOL. I couldn't agree more Damon :)

paleoblues said...

If, like me, you are tracking the continual references to rats on this show, the famous “I’m walking here” line was first uttered by Enrico “Ratso” Rizzo (Dustin Hoffman) as he and Joe Buck (Jon Voight) are crossing the street in “Midnight Cowboy” (1969). (I had to give a shoutout to my favorite actor of all time, since no one else has).

Kate and Sawyer on the dock......enough to make a grown man cry.

Ethan as Claire’s doctor........should have seen it coming.......but DIDN’T.

Claire as jungle woman........straight out of left field.

Karolyn said...

@paleoblues I knew EXACTLY where the Arzt's line came from, and I literally guffawed when he said it. And I don't usually guffaw. That was a great line and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it's origin. In fact I was going to write something about it when I read your post. They should have played "Everybody's Talking at Me" at some point in the episode.
When they showed Claire my reaction was " Whoa. Dude. Wait....WHAT?!?!"

VW- pureara - what you get from an air filter

Karolyn said...

And where is Nikki?? Is she still sleeping? Did she read all of our haikus on the other post? A lot of them are pure genius. And she hasn't posted anything in these comments. NIKKI, WHERE ARE YOU???

Gillian Whitfield said...

I don't think Sawyer looked paunchy. It was probably just the sweatshirt he had on. But it's better than those geeky DHARMA jumpsuits (which I loved, by the way).

Before this episode aired, l watched the "enhanced" episode on ABC (ugh). I really don't like it. I think this is the second time that they have given away someone's name. The first one being Eloise. This time it was Dogen.

In a strange way, Aldo reminded me of Frogurt/Nikki and Paulo. I was really excited to see him again . . . until he opened his mouth. It's like Radzinsky.

VW: mimic. Flight 815 in the flash-sideways timeline is a mimic as flight 815 in the "real" time.

Crissy Calhoun said...

thank you Nikki -- I couldn't figure out where I knew the mechanic guy from!

OK, back to intelligent, insightful comments; i'll be in the food court.

humanebean said...

Geez, Karolyn! Cut the gal some slack - by the time Nikki got to sleep last night, it was probably close to 1 or so and I'm sure she's busy with the kids and getting ready for work first thing in the A.M. She'll be here, never fear! And, she did post on some of the haikus late yesterday sometime before show preparations. I kid, Karolyn! I'm sure you're just eager (as are we all) for Nik to reappear.

I'll have some more specific thoughts later (probably around post 155, if last week is any indication) but I had to second those who found this episode awkward and unwieldy. The developments near to the end were very enjoyable, clearly the best scenes of the episode, but much of what preceded it felt undercooked. There are always a few eye-rolling moments in the most frenetic episodes but Kate's actions during the getaway strain credulity. I agree with those who are bored with The Runaway storyline - even in an alternate reality it's tired!

I'm glad, though, that we finally see the beginning of the end for the shipping storyline. Regardless of how you feel about the Sawyer/Juliet pairing, it appears that Sawyer finally gets how important it was to him and hopefully he will grow from the realization of his mistakes. "Some of us were meant to be alone". Word, brother! You, Kate and Jack can each learn from this understanding, and hopefully we'll get to watch you do it.

Now that I'm done being cranky about an underwhelming episode, time to dive in for more careful reflection on the high points!

@Marebabe - thank you for reminding us of what a real relationship is all about. Congratulations!! I hope that you both enjoy a fabulous anniversary and many more to come!

Batcabbage said...

Sorry about this, I haven't been able to access Nik at Nite for some time; my comments may be outdated. Sorry in advance...

I wasn't really impressed by this episode, as I am not normally impressed by 'Kate-centric' episodes (that doesn't need to be gone into here - it's my problem with Kate and I deal with it). But I am VERY surprised that in the final season they follow up an incredibly intriguing season opener with an episode that essentially tells us a.) Sayid is infected with 'whatever-the-hell-it-is'; b.) that Kate is still an outlaw in timeline 2 (which we already knew) but has a strange moment of recognition at 'Aaron' and c.) that Claire is now Clairssaue (awesome moniker, Nik). Oh yes, and d.) Kate STILL DOESN’T LISTEN TO ANYONE, EVER! (Seriously, if you won’t listen to Jack when he says ‘Don’t come back for me’, shouldn’t you listen to Sawyer when he says ‘Don’t come after me’? Who do you listen to in your triangle, Strange Convict Woman???)

A few things I noted:

Yay for Aldo for taking over the 'Biggest Douche on the Island' mantle from Radzinsky. Nice one, douche!

I loved Arzt as Ratso. Although he may be a few meals ahead of dying from consumption or whatever Hoffman died of (or didn’t – who knows?) in Midnight Cowboy.

Claire: "Hey, Cab-Jacker-Gun-Girl, I know you've just held me at gunpoint and stolen this cab, and granted you came back to pick me up (because I'm pregnant, you took my purse, and I couldn't get very far after you dropped me off/ejected me from the hostage situation), but can you come in with me to this douche's house who didn't pick me up? For some reason, despite the gun and the cuffs and illegal things, I strangely trust you and want your company for what might be an intensely personal and awkward moment."

Ghengis Otherton (dammit, he has a real name now) playing with the baseball: You know, this reminded me of Gul Dukat playing with Sisko's baseball in Deep Space Nine, saying 'He left it to let me know that he'll be back.' Totally irrelevant to this episode, but anything that reminds me of Ben Sisko makes me smile.

Nik: I loathe having to remind anyone of the events of “Stranger in a Strange Land,” I totally thought you were going with the Heinlein novel here, Nik, and I thought 'Why would you hate to remind people of that?!' But then I saw you meant the Bai Ling travesty and went, 'Oh, yeah. Right. Stupid Bai Ling!'

I also liked seeing Ethan in the alterverse, especially after the Ethan-drool that covered the end of the Haiku thread earlier today (careful of the episode discussion on earlier threads, people! Save it for the episode recap thread! Not everyone here lives in North America, thank you for your patience. UPDATE – Nik at Nite has been down for a while where I live – hours now, stupid ISP’s! - , but I wanted to make this point – please don’t discuss episodes that have aired in threads that were posted before that episode has aired – people who haven’t seen the episode may comment on posts that were posted before the new episode airs. Sorry to go on about it, but I really f**king hate spoilers – which includes ANYTHING about said episode - as do many people that frequent Nik at Nite, some of which do so because it is specifically spoiler-free. Sorry, soap-box gone now.)

Nik: I know this will be completely insane, but did anyone else think Sawyer looked a little paunchy? Holy crap, I said the exact same thing to Batkitty as we were watching! He's got a fair way to go to rival MY double chin, but methinks he had a good time over the holidays. And why shouldn't he? You go, Josh Holloway!

I have to go now. I'm watching the Buffy season 5 episode 'The Body', and I'm getting more teary than Jack gets every 17.5 minutes in Lost. Sniff!

Mike said...

Has anyone noticed an additional way that the writers seem to be tying this season to the first one? In season 1, the flashbacks for the initial two-partner focused on the flight. Same here. The third episode was a Kate episode. Same here. 4th ep was about Locke. If the previews are an indicator, same here. This would mean that the 5th episode would be about Jack and the sixth would be about Jin and Sun. I DO know that the sixth ep of the first season was "House of the Rising Sun." Title of this season's sixth episode? "Sundown."

Just had to comment on it!

Kimberly said...

Classic Sawyer "Oh, yeah the Iraqi tortourer who shoots kids, definitely deserves another chance" Loved it!

asiancolossus said...

You guys are amazing, I'm at work at 8:30 (had to go to bed early after the show) and already over 60 comments!

- Liked the episode, like Nikki alluded to did not love it, in part because we didn't see Smokey Locke, he/it adds a certain level of intensity.
- although I loved the Kate and Claire interaction, I found it kind of unbelievable that Claire would be so trusting with someone who almost pistol whipped her in the cab! Necessary for story development I suppose!
- I totally expected the guy to turn over Kate while she was in the bathroom changing
- I forgot about the whale!
- last night solidified my theory that the plane didn't explode reality people are aware at least on some other level that the other reality exists...last week with Jack and the neck bruise, Claire mentioning the name Aaron, and I think that when Kate saw Claire was pregnant, it wasn't simply because she felt bad for hijacking a pregnant woman, she had some kind of deeper connection there, am I the only one who thinks that?
- can someone enlighten me how Ethan ended up with the last name Rom as an other? I must have missed that part, it was cool to see him
- why is there such a lack of communication on this show? if the Nomad Others would just tell our survivors what the heck is going on instead of beating around the bush, I betcha that Sayid would take that pill. If it is SO important for him to take it, did it not occur to them to actually tell the truth? but then again this is Lost, who are we kidding? LOL
- I love how big mouthed nasty others get killed, see ya Aldo!
- I too noticed the Alpert eyeliner thing with badass Claire...I had a feeling she would come back at the end. I worry though it won't be the same Claire we loved before, can she be saved?
- nice to see Jack is still a disbelieving Jackass even after he is called out by Dogen about people being killed trying to help him...redemption? what redemption?
- I somehow doubt these Nomad others would let both Kate and Jin out of the temple to find Sawyer...if they were so intent on having Sawyer stay and they were so untrusting of the survivors, would they realistically risk having 3 of them gone??
- stupid CTV again cuts to ABC right before the news, and it basically cuts off BOTH previews. DAMN YOU CTV!!!

SonshineMusic said...

@Blam: I guess we've seen Sayid's poker face.

Really? ::snork::

Uh-uh... EClaire!

hahahahahahaha!!

@batcabbage: my deepest apologies for spoilers contained in haiku post. We kind of...um...got carried away. I hate any and all types of spoilers myself, and I totally did not even think about it, but I shall in the future if you promise to forgive me for my part in the travesty :)

Twenbo said...

You're crazy about Sayid being the new Ben. Ben wasn't evil or the others would have killed him.

Nikki Stafford said...

Sonshine: I am sorry, but when they were running that machine on Sayid, all I could hear in my head was Count Rugen saying, "I have just sucked away one year of your life. Some day I might go as high as five, but I really don't know what that would to do you."

LOL!!! You know, I think that movie rubbed off on Ben, too, since for him the reason to go on living is "To bluuuufffff." ;)

Batcabbage said...

@Sonshine: No, no, my friend. No need for apologies, and I really don't mean to fingerpoint. I just wanted people to be aware of the time differences of when other people see the eps, and not to talk about the eps in previous posts... Anyway, thank you. :)

Ali Bags said...

@Batcabbage

HUGE apologies mate. I am thoroughly ashamed of myself as I hate spoilers too AND I don't live in North America and should know better.

Lisa(until further notice) said...

Definately not as exciting an episode as LA X was, but I'm game. My husband was totally enthralled with his BLACKBERRY during most of the episode, so I know he thought it was just "EHH".

I'm happy that the "sickness" or "infection" stuff is being revisited, because when that episode with the French team and Jin aired, many thought that there were inconsistencies with young Rousseau and our beloved Crazy Rousseau. There is much more to this story. I think there is a big difference between Smokey in Locke than there is with the manifestations in Christian, Claire, the French team, etc. Are there "little smokies" that are agents of Smokey/MIB? Claire and Christian were in the cabin together. Miles has an inkling of something going on. My kids and I were wondering when he will he spill the beans and share some information. We deducted that he must still be in the "figuring it out" stage. He reacted strangely to Claire after the explosion in New Otherton as well.

I think the spring in the Temple is a "healing" pool. Not a "bringing back from the dead" pool. Oh...the Dead Pool....LOL.
Dogan and Lennon really thought he was dead. When he came back, they knew something sinister was afoot...or was it? I am still not sure about who it good vs. bad at this point. Maybe there IS no good vs. bad. There just IS.
Ok. Done rambling.

Lastly...yay for Ethan, boo for Aldo, wonderful acting by Josh Holloway, Kate still annoys me, and I love, love, love Jack (who does not have much of a sense of humor.)

Nikki Stafford said...

JackFan: Danielle didn't have the sickness; she just was crazy (and wary) from being alone for 16 years after losing everyone she loved--including her child.

So perhaps Island Claire being "claimed" is not the same as having the sickness?


I agree... I don't trust what Aldo said, and I don't think we should take it at face value yet. I think there's a possibility she just went rogue and the Others can't control her, and so therefore they just assume she's all bad and stuff. But she could just be like Rousseau who was never claimed or infected at all.

Karolyn said...

@humanebean sorry...too much coffee and an impending blizzard has me WAY too hyper, too early. The barometric pressure has gotten to my brain.

SonshineMusic said...

I have to add that I thought Aldo was freakin' hilarious and I was actually a kind of little tiny bit sad that he died. Okay, my weird meter just keeps getting raised. Need to go do something normal

JS said...

aargh, I went to bed right before your post, and now I am getting on a plane. damn sleep requirements....

Nikki Stafford said...

Welcome to the blog, Hermione! I'm so glad that Jeff was able to direct some new people over here. I owe that guy an ankh or something. ;) I hope you like what you see, and we look forward to your comments!

Elle said...

Great recap Nikki! I love your comment of taking deep-sea diving lessons. Sign me up too! The list o' chunked-to-sea rings is ever growing. I want to find that Titanic rock too!

I wonder whats up with those 3 Dogen torture-tests with Sayid. Could Sayid be one of 3 problems?
It looked like the first test was a bit of ash (being blown over Sayid). Like Smokey would up and "runnoft" at the proximity of the mytery ash?

I wonder why Sayid failed the test. My guess is the Test Fail is because of what Sayid said while tortured vs the actual tests. Didnt he claim to be innoncent? Should he have shown some remorse- or begged for death? I wonder what they were looking for to "pass"?

Nikki Stafford said...

Blam: There go all our Thelma and Louise fantasies about Claire and Kate.
"Our"? Did "we" have these before or after our fantasies about Richard in chains? 8^)

Oh no. Those are two entirely different fantasies (I was referring to the dozens of people on the blog last week hoping for a big Thelma and Louise road trip between the two gals). I just want to see the two gals kick ass, and then see Richard... well... ahem.

humanebean said...

Okay, fresh from my reviewing and trying hard to bite back on my churlish irritation at the *ahem* less-than-stellar writing in this episode, here are Some Things That Jumped Out At Me:

- LOVE that Dogen has an old-skool typewriter. Must be tough getting ribbon replacements on the Island. Or, do they come out of the Magic Box?

- Once again we see Dogen reflexively touch the mini-scroll hanging around his neck when he hears that Sayid is alive.

- Loved the brief moment where Kate sees Jack talking on his cellphone while she is cab-jacking.

- Gee, those must be magic handcuffs Kate is sporting. After she kicks Claire out of the cab, she has both hands on the wheel and manages to close the door before she speeds off. *ahem*

- It irks me that Lennon tries to get all "nicey-nice" in asking "Mr. Jarrad" to come with them for a 'chat'. "Nothing to worry about", he says. Um, weren't you just gonna shoot us a few minutes ago? Don't you still have a buncha guns trained on us? I'll go ahead and worry, if it's all the same to you.

- I'm just curious. What do you suppose Dogen uses the Hand-Cranked-Electric-Torcha-Machine™ for, when they're not, you know, "diagnosing" people?

- Dogen stares meaningfully into Sayid's eyes as he applies the hot poker. Looking for ... what? Its obviously significant that he applies 1) ash, 2) electric charge and 3) a searing projectile to Sayid. These are elements associated with Smokey in some way.

- Batcabbage succinctly summarized my issues with the Kate/Claire storyline in this episode. Very little of it is believable at ALL. My favorite is how Kate continues to drive the cab she hijacked at gunpoint in front of a US Marshall at LAX for the rest of the show. Not that she looks conspicuous or anything. Most cab drivers in LA look exactly like her. Not that I'm typecasting, mind you.

- Hurley: "Private talks kinda freak me out .. 'cause they usually lead to me having to do something I don't quite understand". Jack: "I'm right there with ya".

- Claire's hospital johnny is covered with the ubiquitous many-pointed star symbol. Hmmmm.

- The detective breezes into the hospital room, is told by the woman she knows was kidnapped at gunpoint by the fugitive and driven away in a stolen cab that the woman who signed in to the ER with her was "just the cab driver" and the detective says, "oh, okay then, nothing for you to worry about, we'll just be going now. Have a nice baby". Arrrrrgggggh. Did I mention that I thought the writing was sub-par in this episode?

- Look! It's Jungle Hair Claire™!

Teebore said...

I’m a little nervous about an episode that just seemed to raise a billion more questions without answering any of them.

Yeah, I'm a little anxious too. I've been mocking ABC's promo people again, when they keep saying, in every Lost commercial "the time...for...questions...is ...OVER!"

Uh, sure, except for this episode...

Miles: “As you can see, Hugo here has assumed the leadership position, so... that’s pretty great.”

That was my favorite line of the night.

I liked Nathan (I think was his name), the Other that was with Aldo. He seemed surprisingly forthcoming for an Other, and I wish Aldo would have stopped shushing him and that Clousseau hadn't shot him...

The car mechanic that gets rid of Kate’s cuffs played Rack, the evil magicks dealer to Willow on Buffy.

He also played the insane vampire (Kralick, IIRC) in season three's "Helpless", in which Buffy had her powers taken by the Watchers on her 18th birthday as part of their asinine and illogical test.

some of Jack’s Jears rubbed off on the new Emo Sawyer.

LAMO! :D

in the other timeline, will the Red Sox win the World Series?

I hope not; spare us all from obnoxious Boston fans! :)

I know this will be completely insane, but did anyone else think Sawyer looked a little paunchy? Or is it just the unflattering sweatshirt that he’s wearing?

Yeah, I thought that too, even last episode. I think it's the sweatshirt (which, seriously? Sweatshirt on a tropical island? No thank you!).

I'm surprised the "infection" buzzword is back so prominently. I had pretty much written it off as a done deal after we saw Smokey (presumably) impersonating Rousseau's crew last season. I just figured that lacking a better term for it, Rousseau called that "infection". But apparently there's more to it than that.

Nikki Stafford said...

Karolyn: And where is Nikki?? Is she still sleeping? Did she read all of our haikus on the other post? A lot of them are pure genius. And she hasn't posted anything in these comments. NIKKI, WHERE ARE YOU???

Who is this Nikki person of whom you speak? Oh... wait... were you talking about me? ;)

I actually have a 9-5 job that has nothing to do with my writing one, and I had to get up, get the kids ready, get them to daycare, get to the office, and do a quick radio interview before I could come on. But here I am! And the haikus were mostly posted while I was writing the blog last night, so I haven't gotten through all of them yet. Don't you worry; my comments are coming! But you guys really don't need me... you're doing a fantastic job on your own. :)

SonshineMusic said...

@Teebore: I liked Nathan (I think was his name), the Other that was with Aldo. He seemed surprisingly forthcoming for an Other, and I wish Aldo would have stopped shushing him and that Clousseau hadn't shot him...

I like him too (but I think his name was Justin?). Really, though? A forthright Other? Man, if EClaire hadn't shot him we might have actually gotten some of those answers they have promised us. But maybe he's not dead and we'll get to see him next episode. (yeah, right)

Nikki Stafford said...

Batcabbage: UPDATE – Nik at Nite has been down for a while where I live – hours now, stupid ISP’s! - , but I wanted to make this point – please don’t discuss episodes that have aired in threads that were posted before that episode has aired – people who haven’t seen the episode may comment on posts that were posted before the new episode airs. Sorry to go on about it, but I really f**king hate spoilers – which includes ANYTHING about said episode - as do many people that frequent Nik at Nite, some of which do so because it is specifically spoiler-free. Sorry, soap-box gone now.)

Oh my goodness, what do you mean it's down? You haven't been able to access the site for some reason? I'm so sorry! (I HATE BLOGGER...) A blog without Batcabbage just ain't a blog!

Also, I had no idea that people were posting on this episode in other threads, and will go find those comments and remove them. That's my bad for not finding and removing them, unless they were appearing while I was sleeping. I'm sorry you saw anything that spoiled you!! :(

Benny said...

Note: Jack saying "I don't even trust myself." was quite powerful to me in how Jack has changed coming back to the island.

One question that was answered, these people were also BROUGHT to the island... This circle goes a long way then.

@Achinghope: Not irony, just coincidence, role reversal. Irony would be that, by torturing someone, Sayid hurts himself... which kinda happened (psychologically) when he tortured Sawyer.

@Lesley C: We don't know that the French crew went to the Temple, only underneath the Temple's outerwall.
As for bodies, we are working on the theory that there are also two Christians, who was 'proxied' (I hate this word) by Locke. Working theory only!

@Joan: I thought Crepid was Cupid's creepy cousin! Maybe Tepid creepiness comes from him?

They don't like cabin-Christian. Maybe they're cool with suit-Christian!

@JackFan/Nikki: The TOthers refer to being 'claimed' as sick(ness), so we should assume they are the same. But we also don't know what happened to Rousseau during those 16 years! Maybe she just turned crazy, maybe she was 'infected'.

@ARTAR: I'm assuming it's 815 because it's Oceanic Sydney to LA. Flight numbers usually refer to a path. In this case, it could be the 815 of October rather September. Even daily flights will often use the same number if it's the same schedule.

@Blam/Nikki: I think that raising more minor questions will be a way to connect everything. They'll provide an answer to one question and then a chain reaction or domino effect will follow, answering a few more questions with it.

@SagaciousPenguin: "NO, I WILL NOT PUT UP WITH YOUR BULLS**T, ISLAND"
I like how he talks directly to the Island.

@tv_maniac: It's highly possible that Amy was always an Other and she eventually returned (was brought back) to the island with young Ethan. I feel this is a question that won't get answered.

@Teebore: And the Red Sox will win again, AS THEY SHOULD! It was meant to be. Take THAT! Sincerley yours, obnoxious Red Sox fan!


To close: Aldo may have been a major douche, but I liked his style, he will be missed!


verif- barma: what a drunk calls a barman as he's passing out? (weak I know)

Nikki Stafford said...

Mike: Has anyone noticed an additional way that the writers seem to be tying this season to the first one? In season 1, the flashbacks for the initial two-partner focused on the flight. Same here. The third episode was a Kate episode. Same here. 4th ep was about Locke. If the previews are an indicator, same here. This would mean that the 5th episode would be about Jack and the sixth would be about Jin and Sun. I DO know that the sixth ep of the first season was "House of the Rising Sun." Title of this season's sixth episode? "Sundown."

What an excellent observation!! You are absolutely right! :)

Nikki Stafford said...

asiancolossus: can someone enlighten me how Ethan ended up with the last name Rom as an other? I must have missed that part, it was cool to see him

I think his name was Ethan Rom in season 1 so we could all anagram it to "Other Man." That's pretty much it. ;) It probably was never his real name at all.

Anonymous said...

@ Marebabe: Congratulations! Wow, you got married when you were 5 yrs. old?

Aww, poor Josh Holloway. Let the man have a *&@^%#G DONUT! Who among you can cast the first Timbit™?

I can't say this was my favourite episode either, but I agree with Benny about the pacing. They can't sustain the kind of energy they had in the premiere all season, that's just good story telling. After I got over the unlikely action Claire took by getting back in the cab and "going to a second location" with Kate, I realized the theme of the show must have been "free will" or some such. Speaking of which: doesn't poison work wether if you take it of your own free will or NOT?? Dogen was messin' with Jack's morale. Redemption for all the deaths he feels responsible for? Um, poisoning Sayid is not going to make him feel better.

As for the infection/claiming: I think too many people were infected at once to blame it all on the smoke monster. What if the comment about things not staying buried for long applies to the infection. The others seem very picky about what happens to dead bodies on the island. Maybe they have to dispose of them properly, or they will be taken over by the whispers, whom I always assumed were the spirits of people who died on the island. Maybe the infection isn't ALWAYS bad, but is a kind of crap-shoot depending on who takes you over? If we assume Ben has the same infection, maybe that's why he claims he was born on the island. Does this make any sense, or do I need to elaborate?

Did anyone notice that when Kate was in the cab she spied Jack and looked all want-want?

@ Sagacious Penguin: I too gave a woot woot for Jack, but then I always do that for *him*!

@ Rufus: Hahaha! I've been in the hospital recently, and I have to agree; a "diagnostic tool" and a "torture device" can easily be confused.

Tanyam

Lisa(until further notice) said...

Regarding some comments about Jacob's list in the Ankh. We really don't know whose names were on that list. We didn't see it. I'm assuming all touched by Jacob (although Sun is with Richard and Frank right now) are on that list. Were Lennon and Dogan were just asking the Losties their names and then checking to see make sure they were on the list!?!? Like the flight manifest? HaHa. I don't think we can assume Sawyer and Sayid weren't on that list (although Miles should not be on that list.) Enough with the list.

When those "officers" came into Claire's room, at first I thought it was that lady from the Oceanic 6 press conference.

@Nikki. Thank you for bringing up the fact that the others so badly needed to talk privately to Jack last week, and now...nothing. I guess the Sayid business got in the way and they have been distracted?

I loved when jack said, "Step aside." And they DID. Jack's da man.

My past comment about "little smokies" ties into some of the zombie talk. Is Smokey/MIB trying to create an army using the dead/dying? According to Widmore, a battle is coming.

In the previews, Saywer is with Smokey/NotLocke. Is that what the temple others were afraid of? Is that why they wanted Sawyer back?

Batcabbage said...

@Lisa(until further notice): I loved when jack said, "Step aside." And they DID. Jack's da man.

I think both those dudes thought, 'If we don't move, he's gonna cry again...

(I've been reading Ack Attack today. So funny!)

Lisa(until further notice) said...

@Batcabbage: My first TRUE LOL of the day. But I have to say, I love Jack even when he's crying.

Sagacious Penguin said...

Regarding the Ethan Inconsistency, I think the real question here is Why The Island Is Sunk? not How Did Ethan Survive The Blast.

They made a big deal about how the power of the H-bomb was somewhat diminished by Sayid removing the core from the casing and explosives, so while it would have been very very deadly to anyone in a certain radius, I think it's generally presumed this wouldn't have been powerful enough on it's own to destroy the entire Island in a single stroke... right?

I could be wrong but I have a feeling there's more to the Island being under water in the AltU other than Jughead's devastation. So if Ethan (and possibly others) survived the blast in the AltU the big question here is what was the next step in the chain that led to the Island standing in for Atlantis...

Duke said...

When Sayid was being tortured it didn't seem like Sayid. I know he just rose from the dead and I know he was used to being on the other end of the torturing but he has been badly beated before and held up better. He seemed kind of whiny.

Loved Sawyer in this episode. Josh Holloway did an amazing job.

Couldn't stand Kate.

Happy to see Jack coming back.

Looking forward to more Miles!!

Karolyn said...

@Nikki those 9-5 jobs suck don't they? They really cut into our blog reading time. I didn't mean anything by getting so hyper that early in the a.m. I should know that not everyone gets up at the crack of dawn. I offer you an alternate timeline WITHOUT Nikki and Paolo as an offering for forgiveness. :) wouldn't that be an awful way for Darlton to "fill" another episode? Finding out what happened with Nikki, Paolo and the diamonds? I shudder at the thought of it. And since we don't know all of the episode titles, it's always possible. I'll shoot my tv if a future ep is called "Exposed". I'll get off this topic before my ramblings affect the future and cause it to come true.


Verification word: versory - what Jack is about all the people who have died trying to help him.

Duke said...

Happy Anniversary Mary and Larry!

paleoblues said...

1) What is Dogen typing?

2) Sawyer asking Kate about the number of guards is similar to their scene outside the Hydra cages when is started a fight in order to survey the opposition.

3) The way Kate looks at Jack as he is standing alone outside the airport. Was there a bit of recognition there?

4) Arzt: “Hey, I saw your license plate”. So did Nikki.

5) No holes is Sayid’s shirt?

6) Lennon: “Where did Ford go?”, Jack “What?” Lennon: “Ford (you idiot)”. Jack has become very bad with names. In LA X he asked “Who’s Jacob?”.

7) The mechanic didn’t seem the least bit phased. Is removing the handcuffs of confessed murders part of his routine services?

8) Jin’s reaction when Kate says to Aldo “You better not slow ME down.” Tell me about it, brother.

9) Kate says “I’ll take care of James”. Usually she calls him Sawyer.

10) Was Jack going to kiss her?

11) Sayid on examination/torture table. I expected Dogen to refer to “Lennon” as Igor.

12) Aldo in jungle acts very similar to Sawyer in jungle in the pilot. He even gives Kate the nickname princess.

13) Aldo reminds Kate she previously knocked him out with the butt of a rifle and she immediately KO’s him again.

14) Dogen’s bookcase. What was “Lennon” reading?

15) Mrs Bascomb’s(?) husband walked out just before the baby came as did Thomas walk out on Claire before the baby came.

16) Claire was trying to stop the baby on the island because she wasn’t ready. Ethan says we can do that.

17) Ethan: “The boy just likes to move around. I have a feeling that Aaron is going to be a handful.” Prophecy?

18) Sawyer: “Some of us are meant to be alone.” Christian to Sawyer in Sydney “Some of us are meant to suffer”

19) Is Dogen an LA Dodger fan?

20) Dogen lies to “Lennon” about Jack swallowing the pill. Or at least doesn’t mention he coughed it back up.

21) Jin is in pain for about 2 seconds when caught in a bear trap?

Benny said...

@SagaciousPenguin: That is definitely the more relevant question. My hypothesis for now is that the detonation, instead on cancelling the energy, would react with it and anhihilate the entire energy source of the island (which is obviously not conventional), therefore rendering it like a hoverboard over a pond.

Brandon said...

Okay, so this episode was definitely set with a slower pace, but still had its share of important moments.

My thoughts:
It seems that things are destined to play out in a similar fashion to the way they did in the story we're familiar with. Kate still plays an important role in Claire's life, Ethan is still a doctor (though his surname is Goodspeed now and not Rom), and Kate still uses saint names as aliases.

What did Kate think about when she saw Sawyer's engagement ring? Does she know she'll never be with Sawyer, or did she think of how she was once engaged to Jack and they let that fail. I vote for the latter, but I also want Kate to end up with Jack in the end.

Claire says she somehow "knew" to name the baby "Aaron". Is this the beginning of the realities bleeding into each other?

Is Sayid's sickness the same sickness Danielle and Desmond kept talking about in the first two seasons of the show? If so, how did Desmond learn about this sickness? Was it just a ruse by Kelvin to keep Desmond in the Swan?

Another crucial question: who was really infected? Danielle or her team? She says her team, but she clearly killed her team. It's not quite clear yet. The team went into the Temple, so it is indeed possible it was them. Danielle never entered the Temple (as far as we know), but Claire is now looking very Danielle-esque and has "darkness" in her...so was Danielle the truly infected one all along?

Is Christian a phantom of or in service to the Smoke Monster? When Claire is with her father in the Cabin, she is obviously now being infected. What is the deal with Christian?

Does the Monster hope to make Sayid a soldier of his? Is Claire a soldier of the Monster?

Ethan's surname is given as "Goodspeed". In "Raised by Another", Ethan gives his name as "Ethan Rom". Is this a simple alias or not? In that timeline, Ethan survives the Purge, where Horace, his father, does not. He is raised by the Others and perhaps was given a different name. In this new scenario, it seems that Ethan never was on the Island, which would seem odd, since the bomb seems to have detonated in this timeline (assuming that Jughead sunk the Island)...which would mean that Ethan was on the Island when the detonation occurred. Oh well, we don't REALLY know why the Island is underwater yet, so we'll wait.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:
- Miles: "We'll be in the food court."
- Jack attempting to take the pill = Jack's lack of trust actually helped someone this time.
- Sawyer sitting with Kate at the pier.
- Ethan Goodspeed taking care of Claire.
- Aldo (Mac from "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia") returning to the show...only to be shot :(

NEXT WEEK:
- Smokey finding Sawyer at the Barracks = Me yelling at my TV, "IT'S NOT LOCKE! GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE!"

Nikki Stafford said...

Duke: When Sayid was being tortured it didn't seem like Sayid. I know he just rose from the dead and I know he was used to being on the other end of the torturing but he has been badly beated before and held up better. He seemed kind of whiny.

You know, I should offer a subsection on "things my husband said during the broadcast." One was, "Why did Sayid come back all wimpy? What happened to the badass?"

Me: Um... he just rose from the dead. He's probably just a little, I dunno, TIRED?
Him: Nah. He's wimpy and whiny.

Benny said...

@Brandon: YES, we don't know why the island sunk.

But if we go with the theory that the bomb(s) did it (for plural reference, see: Blam's energy dispersion theory from last week), then we can believe that Ethan, along with Amy, Miles, Mrs. Chang and so on, have been evacuated.

That's the most likely answer to allow for Ethan to be alive in this second storyline.

Nikki Stafford said...

Marebabe: Big congrats to you guys!! And to everyone else, I've seen the engagement pic and then the pic of them now, and not only have they barely changed in 35 years, but they are SUPER-CUTE.

frecklesnpt said...

I noticed also that Claire's ultrasund said 10/22. I believe tho that it was meant to be her due date as she was only 36 weeks pregnant.

Nikki Stafford said...

paleo: Jin is in pain for about 2 seconds when caught in a bear trap?

HAHA! NO kidding! He's like, "Oooowwwwwowowowowoooo OH OH my foot, OH I AM DYING I CANNOT... wait. Is that you, Claire? Hey, how's it going?"

Nikki Stafford said...

paleo: Ethan: “The boy just likes to move around. I have a feeling that Aaron is going to be a handful.” Prophecy?

Great line you pulled here, because reading it now makes me think he will always end up with Kate. Kate can't stay still, and neither can Aaron.

No holes is Sayid’s shirt?

Wow, the water is like the island's sewing machine!! My daughter's been getting creative with her "safety scissors" and her shirts lately... I'd LOVE to have a mending spring!!

Teebore said...

@ARTAR can someone explain to me how the hell kate found claire at that bus stop?

I just assumed Claire was still at the same spot Kate left her.

@Blam Well, I guess we've seen Sayid's poker face.

Zing!

@Amsted Also, liked Dogen's deadpan delivery of "It's a baseball." to Jack's question.

Kinda like Richard's "it points north" comment to Locke last season.

@tv_maniac: ETHAN INCONSISTENCY!

I don't know that it's an inconsistency so much as an unanswered question at this point.

@flexible Did that escape everyone's attention?

Nope. I just didn't care. :)

@Batcabbage: but anything that reminds me of Ben Sisko makes me smile.

Me too! On both counts.

@Benny And the Red Sox will win again, AS THEY SHOULD! It was meant to be. Take THAT! Sincerley yours, obnoxious Red Sox fan!

Aw, no, not you too! :)

Sorry. I'm in MN and we have a prickly relationship with Boston sports. We're just sick of you guys taking guys off our teams and then winning championships with them.

@Tanyam: Good point about the poison needing to be taken by Sayid willingly. Dogen was clearly effing with Jack, or trying to mold his character in some way, for some reason.

Nikki Stafford said...

tv_maniac: Ethan's on the mainland in LA in the alternate timeline - which makes sense because we know that all the women and children were evacuated from the Island before the bomb went off - so Ethan, who was born the same year as Miles, would've been an infant and thus left the island with Miles and Charlotte. However, if what Daniel said was true that WHAT HAPPENED HAPPENED - and it Ethan, Charlotte, and Miles ALWAYS left the island - then how was Ethan on the island in 2004 when the plane crashed?

I don't see this as an inconsistency, simply because anything in the new timeline is not supposed to jive with the other one. Ethan's off the island in this reality, and the plane crashed. By that rationale, if the plane lands in LAX, how are they supposed to crash onto the island? The "Whatever Happened Happened" doctrine doesn't apply to various timelines, only the one they're in at the time. So anything that happened in 1977 wouldn't change the 2004 events because that was all in the same timeline (presumably). But with a new timeline, it's a whole new ballgame. (Like the baseball reference?) ;)

paleoblues said...

I have also thought of the island as a “hover board” floating on the surface. A magnetic anomaly within the island “hovering” over an anomaly in the earth's mantle of like polarity would create a repulsive force holding up the island. Similar to a unirail train hovering above the tracks. Destroying the anomaly in the blast would therefore sink the island. And since the island is moving it can’t be “rooted” in the crust. However, the earth’s magnetic field is relatively weak and if the island is floating where did the magma come from that created it. It is volcanic, isn’t it?

Verf: initbot .... mechanical Eskimo

Nikki Stafford said...

frecklesnpt: I noticed also that Claire's ultrasund said 10/22. I believe tho that it was meant to be her due date as she was only 36 weeks pregnant.

I considered that, too, but they don't print the due date on an ultrasound, just the number of weeks of the baby. With the time stamp above it, that looks like the actual date the ultrasound was conducted (the printouts always have to have that day's date on them to keep them straight, so the docs can plot the baby's development in utero).

Benny said...

@Teebore: Haha! Fair enough. I'm not actually from/in Boston. Just northeast Canada.

And I got nothing against Minny, just NY.

Anonymous said...

Is everyone tired of the Others' constant *-wittage? why do the writers still insist on writing cagey-non-answer dialogue for them? It's making me a bit fatigued. I think I'm cranky today because of it. Bad episode = bad day.

Tanyam

Brian Douglas said...

I think Clair had the sickness. She had the same creepy calm that Regina and Rousseau's (sp?) team had when we saw her in the cabin. Plus, Christian is definately working with the Smoke Monster at the very least (if he's not the Smoke Monster himself), so it's likely that he infected her when he came to her in the jungle the same way Motand et al. were.

Joshua said...

Looks like I'm late to the party again, and not a heck of a lot to add that hasn't already been brought up...

I have to say, I've just about had it with the Others' mysterious, arrogant condescension routine at this point. I mean, really -- Dogen's talking to Jack, and I have to wonder: if the man's just seen his friend come back from the dead, in addition to God knows what else he's seen and been through by now, then why not just come clean with him, already? For crying out loud! What point does the inscrutability serve other than to unnecessarily foster obfuscation for the sake of artificial drama? If Jack is really important enough to your cause that you'd practically break your own neck sprinting across your little monastic mastaba dojo to throttle the poison out of his throat, then isn't he one of you already? Why continue to be such a supercilious dick, unless you've just been doing it for so long now that you simply relish any opportunity to flex your despotic ass muscles? I'm every bit as tired of this crap as Jack must be, and I truly hope this changes soon. 'Cause it's overdue and racking up late fees.

About the "infection" thing: I get the distinct impression that what we're dealing with is more than a sort of possession by The Man In Black, though likely related. It seems to me that rather than two distinct entities warring with one another, that Jacob and MIB are just envoys, and what we're looking at is closer to being two separate... essences, or quiddities, more like ideas than individuals, like the very natures of good and evil themselves locked in combat, and that the 'darker' of the two has the ability to dominate an individual once their soul's hold on their corporeal selves is sufficiently weakened. So zombie isn't so far off, really.

And who knows? Perhaps the 'lighter' side of these two factions is capable of the same sort of occupation but chooses not to use it. And maybe we'll see that change...

What's most interesting to me about these "claimed" individuals, however, is their seeming retention of a degree of free will, almost like they're ignorant of having been taken over. Case in point: Ben. Certainly callous, calculating, but also continually conflicted. ???

Love the Claire name game you guys are playing! Who else is hoping against hope that despite what Dogen said, she's still ok? I think it's more than a little curious that, in the original French, the word 'clair' means 'light' (as in 'éclairé,' or enlightened) or 'clear' (as in 'eau clair' -- 'clear water').

WORD VERIFICATION - destimes ("It was the Des of times, it was the worst of times...")

Rufus said...

Marebabe: Happy 35th!! in advance.

Loved Miles comments about Hurley and leadership. I also wondered what he was getting at when he asked Sayid about his 'death' experience. He knows something about Juliette and Sayid he's keeping to himself.

In season one Ethan's last name was Rom and he didn't want to hurt Claire. He seemed a bit infatuated with her. In this sideways reality he seems to want to help her with no strings attached.

This sideways reality won't be complete until I see Ben and Juliette.

Teebore said...

Joshua Why continue to be such a supercilious dick, unless you've just been doing it for so long now that you simply relish any opportunity to flex your despotic ass muscles?

I think that's pretty much what it boils down to: to the Others, obfuscation is second nature to the point where they have to work hard to be straight-forward and literally honest.

Definitely share your sentiments though; this late in the game, their schtick is getting old.

Joshua said...

One more thing: when Dogen begins to test Sayid, the first thing he does is dust his torso with some kind of grey powder. Did anyone else wonder if that might be the same ash that repels The Man In Black?

Teebore said...

One more thing: when Dogen begins to test Sayid, the first thing he does is dust his torso with some kind of grey powder. Did anyone else wonder if that might be the same ash that repels The Man In Black?

Yeah. At the time, I assumed they were testing if he was Sayid or the Man in Black impersonating him.

Since they were actually testing him for "the infection", that ash seems to suggest a relationship between Smokey and the infection, even if they aren't the same thing.

Anonymous said...

@ Joshua:

"the 'darker' of the two has the ability to dominate an individual once their soul's hold on their corporeal selves is sufficiently weakened."

Hmmm..... Genius!

Tanyam

CPB68 said...

I am convinced that the chop shop mechanic is an OTHER just like the meat market OTHER held John Locke's body in the walk in freezer. Are there OTHERS living among us in everyday lives? SCARY! The Dairy Barn guy working in my town could definitely be an OTHER!!!

Also, Claire is definitely living in Rousseau's bunker underground where she held Sayid. Those rocks were put up there by Claire. Now she is running from the OTHERS and hiding from the survivors, just living in the jungle. But I can't figure out the abandonment issue. Why did she leave Aaron if she was supposed to raise him? Did she know that Sawyer would find him? Was she watching from the treetops? Is Christian Jacob or Esau (as my friend Frecklesnpt and I call MiB!) ???

Last nights episode confused me more than ever! I screamed when I saw Ethan. I DO NOT LIKE ETHAN at all!

Also, who is Lennon? What was he in before? Was it an 80's movie? I cannot place him. More research later.

Fred said...

There is a possibility Rousseau herself was infected, and not her comrades. If that's the case, it makes sense Widmore wanted her and the child dead. Robert et al. would have acted on part of the Others, trying to get rid of her. It need not be necessary a person dies to be infected. The Others are concerned about Sawyer, suggesting he may be infected if he meets with the monster. This places Eko in a new light. Since the monster could not infect him, he killed Eko.

Of course we do not have enough information, and the LOST writers are notorious for showing us parallel scenes where in one case a logical explanation suffises, while in the other the mythology of the island works. For instance, Claire's amnesia was just that, she did not time travel. Yet when Desmond went back in time, he could not recognize Sayid or anyone. So Rousseau may have been crazy ebing isolated for years on the island, while Claire may be crazy with the infection. (There was always something wierd about the Others willing to act in ways that meant certain death. This may support seeing Robert et al. being for the Others and not infected).

dan said...

Not a great episode, but I like Lost because it takes the time to tell a story at the proper pace, which means some episodes are slow in order to build up to something a few hours down the road.

I am really confused about the sickness. Before this season I was convinced that there was no sickeness. My impression was that Smokey could make a doppleganger of anyone dead on the island. So he manipulated Rousseau and pretended to be her infected friends AFTER killing them inside the temple wall entrance. But now this seems impossible. So maybe the infection IS real. ugh.

But Smokey is heavily tied to redemption and death (Ecko or Boone, for example), and Sayid clearly said "I deserve what comes next" in reference to his wound - but does that mean he is redeeming himself or is he stating something different about himself that will change the events as they play out (a clue form the writers)? And how is this different from Ben, who we were led to believe was "made evil" by going through the same process when Sayid shot him as a child? Was that a red herring?

On the Kate front: I don't think Kate is as logical as we give her credit, which is why it's hard to figure her out. I think whenever the writers have a plothole or write something they can't get the characters out of, they just say "Kate got emotional and did it". Sorry, I just can't shake that feeling for her, and my appreciation for the character has been on a steady decline as a result. :(

paleoblues said...

Jack! Don't drink the tea! It's the oldest trick in the book. Watch Lennon as he glances from Jack to Dogen, back to Jack and then Dogen again. Something's up.

scotminusT said...

Sorry to dip into the future, but I'm so intrigued by next week's episode title "The Substitute." It feels like the circle is closing. With "The Constant", "The Variable", and now "The Substitute" all kinds of of resonances are going off in my head. The Ajira flight seems to have all three (many of the same people-contants, missing people-variables, people filling in for other people/attributes-substitutes). And Claire seems to be "substituting" for Rousseau. And the flash sideways are so full of constants and variables...

I feel like my brain is going to explode--the answers feel so close yet so far.

Plain_Gillian said...

Holy posts! I need to get it togther next week :)
Has anyone else wondered how Dogon became the leader of the others as he idicates in his speach to Jack about why he needs a translater? Is it just because of the amount of time that has passed between John leaving and present? Also there was a tantalizing comment about time made by Aldo in regards to Danielle and her traps.

Teebore said...

Has anyone else wondered how Dogon became the leader of the others

I've sort of been assuming that Dogen is sort of the Temple Master, leader of the Others within the Temple, but still second-in-command to whomever the designated leader is on the outside (Ben, Widmore, etc).

Or perhaps he overrules the "outside the temple" Other leader-either way, I see him as someone who has been a leader for a long time, and that "leader" in this case is somehow different from the position held by Widmore, Ben, and Locke through the years.

But that's all assumption on my part.

Susan said...

batcabbage I loved your Sisko/Dukat reference. When I saw the baseball on the desk, I yelled, "Sisko!" (And then had to explain it to my kids.)

Karolyn said...

@scotminust - I was thinking that The Substitute was referring to Locke. There seems to be a theme of Season 6 episodes mirroring Season 1. Pilot/LA X, What Kate Did/What Kate Does, Walkabout/The Substitute,etc. I won't name anymore episodes for fear of spoiling, but I checked out imdb and there are strong connections with episode titles. Since dead Locke was a "substitute" for dead Christian, I'm thinking the episode will be about Locke. I could be wrong, though. It happens frequently.

JS said...

OK, so I am posting after reading the first 67 posts, so I apologize in advance for redundancy
----------------------------

@marebabe: Congratulations Marebabe on 35 years!

RE: Infection - I am starting to think that being infected (while clinging to life) is different than being impersonated (while totally dead) and I don't know if Sayid was infected before or after the water. We don't know what happened to claire or the french team, but if putting them in the water got them infected, why would Dogen have done it? He was trying to save Sayid per Jacob's request, not infect him. And, of course, Aldo could be totally wrong. He isn't the sharpest Other, is he?

RE: Miles - the only freighter person still on the show. I really hope they have something significant for him to do other than be the telephone operator to the recently dead.

RE: ultrasound - what is the purpose of making the flight one month later? I also cannot beleive after all this time and all the scrutiny the prop master could make that huge of a mistake. So, really, what happened in the one month that would make a difference in the losties lives?

RE: Aldo - I love that things from 2004 are coming up now - you knew that kate was planning to knock aldo out in the same exact way as soon as she recognized him and started sipping her water!

Re: ring under floor boards - I assume Sawyer put it there in 1977, and so probably cautiously hid it well so if he time shifted it would still be there. His house must have had other inhabitants between 1977 and 2007.

@Blam - just got the poker face joke. ha. Puh-puh-puh-poker face. And with Aldo, yes, he was with the suburban others for a while, he was guarding Karl so it is possible, but it struck me as strange too. These two others seemed particularly clueless as compared to the way we typically think of the Others, usually as knowing a whole lot and not saying anything.

RE: SKATE - I wasn't sure if she was crying for the sadness of it all, or because she finally realized that Sawyer wasn't pining over her for three years, that he was really in love with Juliet. and him saying he was meant to be alone - the old flirty sawyer is gone. He's all growed up now, and prob not into SKATE games. But we do have another 15 (gasp, that's all) episodes left, so we'll see. Unlike most Jears, I totally believed Sawyers grief tears, barely able to speak, unable to control his face. And finally, someone is grieved beyond the episode they died in!

RE: episode letdown - I know the pattern has typically been to alternate between Jack team and Ben/Locke/Widmore team on episodes, so when we knew it was Kate centric, I didn't expect B/L/W stuff, but that is what I want to know. across the seasons, I have felt like we had to sit through Kate stuff to get to B/L/W stuff, and I really hope we do not have much more of that. Darlton said they were really going to explore the love triangle. Ugh, I hope they were joking, or kidding or misleading us. They cannot not know that a lot people are over it (except for the SKaters/Jaters of course).

@anonymous - I'm with you, not sure why they are still so secretive and mean. But, for dramatic reasons, I am sure they will continue to be, until they are all on the same side fighting the same thing. And even then....

@tv_maniac - I think the other others need the whole team together, whoever was on Jacobs new list (since supposedly Jack wasn't on the original Jacob list, if it was in fact a Jacob list and not a Ben list. Jeez, 3 seasons ago and we still don't know what is and isn't true).

@batcabbage - yes. To all of it.

@Mike - you are right. I think this season will be the same format as season 1, as Darlton have alluded to several time. FYI, some folks [I] feel episode titles are spoiler-ish, so be careful posting more of them here. Cheers.

SonshineMusic said...

@JS: telephone operator to the recently dead

hahahahahahahaha!!!

finally, someone is grieved beyond the episode they died in!

I said the same thing. After the Charlie fiasco...

scotminusT said...

Oops, sorry, that was inconsiderate of me. In my excitement I didn't consider the spoiler-y-ness of naming that title.

But just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply anything about the actual content/focus of the episode. Merely that I was feeling a resonance with the other two aforementioned titles. It's been nagging at me since last season as to why the circumstances of the Ajira flight were engineered the way they were. Since the flight seemed to be made up of constants, variables and substitutes (Locke for Christian, etc.) it looks like some explanation may be forthcoming.

By the same token, Clare acting like Rousseau may be another resonance in that vein.

Or not ;-)

frecklesnpt said...

In response to the ultrasound date, I guess I don't remember what my ultrasounds showed from my own kids. I should look for them. However, I can't see that being a typ/error on part of writers/creator/continuity people b/c "anyone who is anyone" who watches Lost knows the date the plane crashed. LOL.

Fred said...

Don't believe Ben Linus is infected, or Locke-2 would have said something to the effect of , "Well, hello there Ben," in a friendly tone. That Rousseau may have been infected is a possibility.

Infection seems to be the way MiB raises his own group of "Others". Hurley hit it on the head when he asked if Sayid might be a zombie. The infected become MiB's "zombies".

Sawyer throwing the ring away echoed Desmond throwing the ring in the Thames. But there is likely no happy ending for Sawyer, and he knows it. On the island, he was at least something (As Cassidy stated, he remained because he knew he had no chance off the island with Kate). Now even the island life is gone. I guess Sawyer is just waiting to die at the hands of MiB/Smokie. Or perhaps he'll go find the rest of Jughead and detonate it to sink the island. His form of revenge.

I am still waiting to see Christian Shephard. I half expected to see his body at the Temple, but we'll see.

Fred said...

In the side world, Locke is paralyzed. How? HIs life in the reality-815 world depended on Anthony Cooper pushing him out the window, 8 floors up. Jacob came along and touched Locke. But at the time, Locke looked dead. So if Cooper pushes Locke out the window in saide-world, there'll be no Jacob to revive him.

Also the whole Cooper business seemed to be the hand of fate/or read MiB manipulating Locke into a long con. Without MiB, there wouldn't even be Cooper to manipulate Locke. So maybe the events did play out exactly the same in side-world as in real-815-world. But come on, a fall of 8 stories would traumatize Locke's internal organs, probably irreparably, not to mention it would just as likely snap his neck. Basically, without Jacob, Locke would be dead.

Maybe we'll never see how Locke was injured, and it may not matter.

Fred said...

Curious. Did Bernard and Rose time travel with the Losties to 2007? If so, has no one noticed them yet? This is an island where an individual can read a dying man's thoughts, but nope, 2 retired people in a ramshackle cabin go unnoticed. Maybe Vincent really is a good luck charm.

poggy said...

Dan, I totally agree on Kate's irrationality being some sort of shortcut for the authors. It grates on my nerves because I think I'd like her much better if she didn't feel so often like a mere plot device.

humanebean said...

@paleoblues - I read that scene between Dogen and Jack with the tea differently. I think that Lennon looks from Jack to Dogen and back in surprise and fascination - finding it unusual that Dogen would converse in English directly with a 'stranger' like Jack. Clearly, Jack is held in some measure of respect by Dogen, perhaps because he has literally laid his life on the line for one of his friends or possibly because of what Dogen already knows about him.

I think the tea is actually fine. As Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". Or, as the LOST writers like to remind those of us who faithfully scrutinize every minute detail looking for clues, sometimes it just 'is what it is'.

Jack: "What's that?"

Dogen: "It's a baseball".

Benny said...

@Fred: Locke only LOOKED dead, no one told us he was ever dead. The only thing Jacob did by that touch was maybe 'awaken' him in botht he literal and figurative senses.

Rose and Bernard: it also took 3 years for Sawyer to run into them in 1977, we hadn't seen them since the flaming arrows in 1954! Just really keep to themselves.

@humanebean: that was my interpretation too.

Plain_Gillian said...

@Teebore:
Your assumption makes sense. I was probably just reading too much into that. With a group as large as theirs it make sense to have a hierarchy.
PS Thanks for not commenting on my spelling mistake :)

JS said...

@Benny – I agree it was significant for Jack to say he didn’t even trust himself. This is the guy who believes he is right in the face of all contradicting evidence. He has changed. He even takes the pill for Sayid, not entirely sure these others do not want him to die. He is putting himself out there for them, like in season 1…..

@rufus – agree, until we see others in the alternate reality, we won’t really know how destiny works there…

Jessica said...

First time poster here, so hope this works...

1. Nikki, love your books and just found out a couple months ago how to circumvent internet rules at work and have discovered your blog. You all rock as Lost fans (you all actually know what you're talking about and don't ask silly questions or forget details)and I haven't yet found anything I needed to add to discussions because you all cover it so well.

2. I know we were all shocked/happy/thrilled/pissed/scared to see Dr. Ethan... but didn't anyone else think "Juliet! Juliet's gonna be the doctor!"?? It would have satisfied a craving I have to see her happy somewhere delivering babies (sideways world or not!)

humanebean said...

Welcome, Jessica - I think that someone may have mentioned that possibility after last week's episode, while speculating whether alternate timeline Claire (ATC) was indeed pregnant. I think we will definitely see her again in this timeline ... if only so that she can go for coffee with Sawyer. ; ]

bowlhed said...

I quite like the idea that I saw somewhere, that the flashsideways aren't actually an alternative timeline per se, but that this season's on-island activity leads to that timeline, which is a new beginning for them all? So that's why we are getting some bleeding between timelines. Rather than this being a totally separate reality.

Does that make any sense? lol

I thought the "sickness" was answered in this episode to be honest. Its Smokey isn't it? (he says very unsure of himself)

Personally I thought the episode was okay but agree with all those mentioning "vague-Other-talk fatigue". I feel exactly the same. We didn't get hardly any of that in Season 5 from memory (Daniel Faraday was always so forthcoming) so its an annoying return for that!

I have complete trust in the writers though and know after its all said and done we are all going to want to watch this season back through again because of its brilliance!

Soooo annoying being in the UK, always late to the party!

Glad your blog is getting the kudos it deserves Nik!

Paticus said...

Jessica- My first thought, actually, was that it was going to be Jack that she was going to run into at the hospital.

Paticus said...

I know he's a surgeon, but i thought after the glance outside the airport that she would tap the first white coat she saw on the shoulder.

Marebabe said...

All righty then! (*cracks her knuckles*) It’s reply time!

@Lisa (until further notice): I didn’t realize I was hungry until I read your post about “little smokies”. To me, those are those yummy little cocktail wieners that are especially good drowned in barbecue sauce and eaten with crackers. And in the same post, you used the phrase “spill the beans”. Um… I’ll be right back. :)

@asiancolossus & Nikki: Your discussion of the name Ethan Rom likely being used only for the purpose of the anagram “other man” reminded me that the actor’s name, William Mapother, contains the word “other”. I don’t remember if that’s ever been mentioned before. Just a fun fact.

@Tanyam: LOL! I get that a lot. My husband and I were both 18 when we got married. And thank you! :) I really liked your observation that “diagnostic tool = torture device”. It reminds me of a time when my mother came home from the hospital after some test or other, and summed up the whole experience with “Nurses are mean.” My sympathies to everyone who has ever had to learn the truth of that statement.

@paleoblues: You’re on a roll today! Loved your long list of observations. When I read, “I expected Dogen to refer to Lennon as Igor,” I said to myself, “That’s Eye-gor!”

@JS: I like your suggestion about the reason Sawyer hid the ring under the floorboards. Much safer than in his sock drawer, in case of more Island craziness, time shifts, etc. And here’s a question I’ll just throw out there: How did Sawyer get that pretty little diamond ring in the first place? Is there a Dharma jewelry store on the Island?

@Nikki: Very astute observation about the baseball, “With the new timeline, it’s a whole new ballgame.” Right you are!

@Teebore & Joshua: I would enjoy your discussions even if you didn’t throw big words around, but I really appreciate your vocabularies. Today, it was the word “obfuscation” that made me smile. It’s so juicy! And several years ago, I actually had a custom sweatshirt made with “Eschew Obfuscation” machine-embroidered across the front. I know. I’m weird. ;)

Fred said...

Is anyone queasy about Jin running around in the jungle, possibly coming on a group led by Locke, and nearly everyone in that group having a rifle? Does the image of Shannon running through the woods to Ana Lucia's group spring to mind? Or maybe, they fire on Jin, and he shoots back, killing Sun? I just have a bad feeling about this. Thank heavens he was caught in one of Claire's traps. At least he may have a time out, before he goes off again in the jungle. (Does claire have a broken music box for Jin to fix? Will seeing Charlie's DS ring revive her memories and she'll be uninfected?).

And Claire really didn't look infected. Recall, Charlie gave her shots when she was pregnant. Did those shots work, or were they just placebos? We'll have to see next week, but consider the possibility that the infection is not to control, but to make someone immune from control. I mean, the whole of LOST is about destiny and free will, what if free will is an infection form the point of view of demi-gods like Jacob and MiB? Jacob's Others seem very much under control, like Cindy and Emma and Zack. Talk about mind control there. But Rousseau, if she were infected, does not seem someone under mind control; a bit crazy, yeah, but not a blind obedient servant.

Teebore said...

@Fred Will seeing Charlie's DS ring revive her memories and she'll be uninfected?

Oh, I like this! For the first time, all the dots from the ring to Claire have been laid out, and you connected them. Sun has the ring, Claire now has Jin. Jin and Sun come together, Claire gets the ring!

Teebore said...

@Marebabe: I'm glad you appreciate the vocab! Obfuscation is indeed a delicious word. Like "plethora".

And congrats on the anniversary. I'm happily in the midst of my third year of marriage, so #35 is definitely inspiring!

paleoblues said...

@Marebabe: Just wanted to add my congratulations on your 35th and as a fellow re-watcher say it's nice to have you back where you belong.

paleoblues said...

@huamanebean: Ah, but if it's just a baseball, why is he spinning it?

Matt said...

Was Sayid's getting branded related at all to Ben's branding Juliet as a punishment? Juliet's branding always seemed very odd to me.

paleoblues said...

@Fred: I'm with you about free will being the undesirable condition according to the others. Those pesky plane crash survivors just won't toe the line. I think of all Ben's (Jacob's) manipulation; Kate, Sawyer and Jack in those cages; Karl in the Clock Work Orange hatch. And of course the parallel to "The Prisoner's" #6 who simply wouldn't get with the program in the Village.

scrvet said...

A few things, hope I don't repeat anyone.

1. Does Claire have health insurance? You would expect the adopting family to cover this but now what?

2. Kate walks into the hospital with a gun. Don't they have metal detectors in LA hospitals with all the gangs. Ok I'm ignorant.
3. We got one answer- the others were brought here too. They're not indigenous like the Dharmas thought.
4. I hate the whole love triangle/ parallelogram thing. Jack looked like he tried to lean in to kiss Kate and she snubbed him. Sawyer tells Kate he's meant to be alone. Kate gets neither guy, end of geometry class.
5. For a minute I thought Kate was going to deliver the baby in the cab-just like she helped deliver him on the island.
6. Liked all the leadership advice Jack is getting from Dogen. Some decisions are unfavorable, people might die trying to help you...

Sagacious Penguin said...

KATE: UNTANGLED

It's funny - Kate's far from my favorite character, but I've never found her particularly boring or irrational. I've always read her motives and character arch as pretty consistent:

- Season 1: Kate runs, both to avoid the law and the entrapment that attachment brings.

- Season 2: Add her love for both Jack and Sawyer into the mix. She loves Jack for the ideals he represents; Sawyer because she identifies with him.

- Season 3: Kate consistently goes out of her way to "save" both these guys - an action that never seems to be fully appreciated by either, frustrating her and sending her ping-ponging back and forth between them.

- Season 4: Aaron gives Kate new purpose and awakes the responsible/motherly side of her. She refocuses her devotions from the guys to Aaron.

- Season 5: Kate realizes her motherood is a lie and devotes herself to rescuing Claire. When she returns to the Island, YES her feelings for both Jack and Sawyer are still in play (such things never go away completely), but her ultimate goal has new definition.

- Season 6: Not much yet, but this episode was a consistent extrapolation of the previous material. She's still "born to run," she's nice to Jack, and she once again tries to "save" Sawyer. Her desire to do so is, as usual, unwanted (and perhaps misplaced) but she doesn't let this hinder her on her path toward her central goal of rescuing Claire.

Simple. Consistent. Uncontrived. And pretty rational. Sure there are more shades and variations on Kate than just what I've listed, but the majority of everything has the above at it's core.

Regarding last night's episode, the rub is in the title: What Kate Does. I've heard people say they haven't seen Kate do much in the episode, but from where I was watching, Kate finally put her torch for Sawyer to rest, set out after Claire, and accepted that, as Sawyer said, "Some people are meant to be alone."

The rest of the season may prove me wrong, but I think this episode will prove to be a pretty important climax to Kate's "love triangle" and "attachment" character arch. Hopefully she can find redemption in helping Claire somehow, but the title "What Kate Does" is pretty definitive-sounding, and to me the answer seems to be: She finally let's Sawyer go.

Her tears at the end really moved me. Was it confusing whether they were for Juliet, Sawyer, or herself? Um -- how about all three? Of course she feels sad for Juliet, of course she feels sad for Sawyer, and of course she feels sad for herself: There comes a moment in all impossible relationships (or potential relationships) when you realize that it's finally, truly, completely OVER. There can be no going back. The end of an era has arrived and what remains... is emptiness. That's how I interpreted her tears, and the writers had me gripped.

Ya'ara said...

Hi Nikki! I'm a big fan of your books, and this is my first time reading your blog.

I just wanted to ask: The woman who had been going to adopt Claire's baby -- wasn't she Juliet's sister? Or am I crazy?

Batcabbage said...

@CPB68: Also, who is Lennon? What was he in before? Was it an 80's movie? I cannot place him.

I couldn't see where anyone else had answered this, CPB, so I shall: Lennon is John Hawkes, who was most recently in Deadwood (as Sol Star). He's also Pete the Liquor Store Guy from one of the best vampire movies ever, From Dusk 'til Dawn. He's been in heaps of things over the years, from Northern Exposure (he was a health inspector) to Buffy (he was a janitor in the Ghost-Murder-Suicide episode). He's a great actor, and it's trippy (ha ha) seeing him all hippie-fied.

JS said...

@Sagacious Penguin - thanks for the Kate breakdown. I still do not think they do everything they could do with the character, but in essence, she runs, and she tries to save. As I said in my previous post, I wasn't sure what the tears were for, but all three makes sense. However improbable, she thought she still had some power over Sawyer, and the way he walks away from her at the end has no hint of wanting her. That's gotta hurt.

Jenn said...

"You know how in The Fly the guy steps into the machine with a fly and their DNA get crossed? I think that happened with Sawyer and Jack when they time-jumped together... some of Jack’s Jears rubbed off on the new Emo Sawyer."

Good old Jears:) I hope Sawyer reclaims his DNA soon, as Jack's Jears get old quickly.

@Nikki and Everyone

Did you read in the EW Lost edition that Nester Carbonell does not wear eyeliner, and that it just looks like he does because his lashes are so sup-thick and luscious?
*Swoon:)

Bob said...

Has anyone considered that the 'parallel' time is actually the reality that was 3 years ago? Realise that the losties that are on the island arrived in the 'present' on the Ajira flight. Which is 3 years after the original 815 crash.

I might be out to lunch - but is it possible that the group is united in LA and still ends up on the island. There would need to be some weaving done to piece it together but remember............it always end the same way.

Ali Bags said...

@Jenn

The special features of the Season 5 DVD has a great bit where they follow Nestor Carbonell around for a day of shooting and he discusses his naturally dark lashes. Apparently the makeup guys have to make them look lighter!

Parables Today said...

anyone think the "sickness"represents sin?

why does he need to die again?

http://parablestoday.blogspot.com/2010/02/sayid-and-sin.html

Jenn said...

@ AliBags

I want a t-shirt that says:

I heart Richard's lashes

And only you people would understand wtf it meant!

paleoblues said...

Jack to Dogen: Let’s see. You know my history with Ben, right? Now YOU are holding me against my will. You just tortured my friend and then asked me to poison him. I’m sitting here doubled over in pain because you crushed my chest forcing me to cough up the pill. You’re offering me tea. (Multiple choice ending):

a) Why would I be suspicious?
b) Hey, thanks for the hospitality. No problem.
c) That really hit the spot.
d) I’m so glad I’ve earned your respect.
e) You got any cigars?

Verf: gessen .... aren't we all?

redeem147 said...

Late to the party. Last week I was off on Wednesday.

I don't know why people didn't like this episode. Sayid's hair looked great! And we saw his tummy!

I think some other stuff happened.

If they were giving us more answers than questions (especially this early in the season) it wouldn't be Lost.

Virgina Katz said...

Congratulations Marebabe!! Quite an accomplishment =)

I enjoyed this episode. It's ggreat to have good ol' LOST back, even if the pressure is starting to mount.

Kate followed Sawyer back to Dharmaville and I though perhaps she was ready to play house now.

As Sawyer was pulling the box up from the floorboards I was thinking, "time capsule! I wonder if there is a little toy airplane in there?"

Claire's reaction to Kate when she came back for her was a tad unrealistic, but then again this is LOST. And they were pretty cute together once Kate put down the gun. Made me think perhaps we have a new ship: Clate, anybody? They could raise Aaron together ;)

Joshua: vf: destimes. I think this is Nikki's blog in the alternate time line. It's the one she has about her fabulous life with Desmond.

Lisa(until further notice) said...

@redeem147: "I don't know why people didn't like this episode. Sayid's hair looked great! And we saw his tummy!" Absolutely love this comment!!! I fixated on that tummy a lot during the episode, but since I watch with my kids and my husband, I kept my thoughts to myself. Thank you for the reminder. My favorite Sayid hair is when he walks into the restaurant in The Economist. He sure cleans up pretty.

Jazzygirl said...

@Teebore:in the other timeline, will the Red Sox win the World Series?

I hope not; spare us all from obnoxious Boston fans! :)


HEY NOW!!!! >;-)

I haven't even gotten through all the comments yet but I HAD to stop and address that one! LOL!

Jazzygirl said...

Alright, I've skimmed the last 30 or so comments...and I have nothing new to add. LOL Well, maybe I do. I meant to comment last week but there were SO many!
My big thing is "the lists". This has been a mystery since very early on. Ben yells at Jacob before he kills him and says something like "you and your lists!" Clearly the new list was in the big ankh. But what the hell do the lists MEAN?
I was not too enthusiastic about this episode, but like most of you, I'm having faith.
I LOVED LOVED Josh Holloway's performance. Nikki, I was a little disappointed when you called him "emo". When I watched it I thought for sure you'd give kudos to his performance. I thought he was amazing and I was bawling right with him. Then Kate loses it and it was all so authentic and raw.
One thing I noticed too...when Claire asks Kate in the hospital what she was wanted for...and Kate said "would you believe me if I said I was innocent?" And Claire said yes...and then Kate never tells her. It SO reminded me of something from a while ago...Nikki, didn't you mention at some point that maybe in an alternaive timeline, Kate did NOT kill her father?
Anyway, I have to watch it again but overall, I mellow episode and I hope next week's is better.

Virgina Katz said...

I think it was Joan Crawford that "claimed" Sayid! Watch out palatable people of LOST, Joan will claim you too ;)

Sagacious Penguin said...

If anyone's interested - I've now blogged my thoughts on "What Kate Does."

I call my column "Where Are We?" and focus on tracking what kinds of answers and character-arch progressions we're getting each episode.

http://sagaciouspenguin.blogspot.com/2010/02/lost-where-are-we-603-what-kate-does.html

Thanks to those who take a peek!

JS said...

@redeem147 - thank you for reminding us of our priorities.

JW said...

Regarding Ethan: it was nice to see him, but I can't help but now think, "Woah, he's only in his twenties?" I just can't buy that Ethan was born after Charlotte.

studiorose said...

Did anyone else think the "new Sayid" is acting exactly like the "old John Locke?"

He seems puzzled, whiny, weak, afraid...pretty much everything John Locke was.

May not mean anything at all, but I really want the old kick-ass Sayid back. (It was nice to see his tummy, though! LOL)

glf said...

Oh I’m sooooooooooooooooooo depressed about Sayid – is he gone/going? ….sigh… was so hoping he was going to wake up from the sideways timeline….

@ Brandon "Is this the beginning of the realities bleeding into each other?"
Yes! My crazy theory is that they’ll all about them all waking up from the LA X(wrong) sideways timeline at some stage has some merit given all the déjà vu-ing that’s going on.

@Joshua – agree re Others – so over of their continued silence – let’s start communicating and get this story done!; and you got it re the sickness.

Re Claire – Rosseau seemed to come good when she was reunited with Alex. Perhaps Claire will too if she’s reunited with Aaron – is this a key?

People may have been disenchanted with this ep coz there’s so many storylines going on at the moment.

Ethan –bringing him in like that was too corny for words.

SonshineMusic said...

I just got my TV Guide and they had a little blip on Josh Holloway and how he had to lose weight before they started shooting, because he had gained sympathy pounds during his wife's pregnancy. So for all of you who thought he looked a little soft, I guess he was! Thought that was kind of funny :)

LoyallyLOST said...

This is the way I see things~the bomb went off, there are 2 worlds. A~Parallel world & B~Hell, er, island world. Since they are in both worlds, I think things didn't 'go back to normal' like Faraday calculated it would. Could that be why some things are different in the parallel world? Maybe that's why there are so many inconsistencies!?
Welcome back, Claire! I know my mother probably sat there with tears in her eyes saying something like 'Oh, my sweet Claire!'
I noticed the way Jack & Kate looked at each other outside the airport~him on his cell & she in the cab. Was there a twinge of recognition or was it because she saw him earlier?
Sooo many questions to be answered!!!

Fred said...

The introduction of Dogen offers viewers a novel way of reconsidering LOST. The Japanese Zen master, Dogen wrote on Being-Time. One such quote is "All beings of the universe are joined together, and each is time." Time is not linear (from past moving to present to future), but it is dynamic, and all things exist all at once in their respective times. Beings as time are dynamic and impermanent--what Jacob means by "progress," not the technological notion nor the moral notion.

It is also interesting that Dogen's notion of being-time is similar in concetion to space-time in relativity. Perhaps then this is the lesson Jacob wants to prove to MiB, that humans who exist in space-time, who are made up of time (as Charlie once said), can come to an enlightened understanding.

This isn't all wroked out, but perhaps the writers have given us a direction to reconsider the whole of the show. And how to interpret those enigmatic lines between jacob and MiB on the beach.

V. said...

I came across the blog a few seasons ago, love reading it and just got my first Finding Lost books over Christmas. This is my first review post comment. I tried to read all of the comments, so I hope I’m not being repetitive, but I might have missed something in the 170+ comments!

@Tanyam & @Teebore- I agree that the poison should work taken voluntarily or involuntarily. So, maybe it’s something else… maybe they aren’t allowed to kill Sayid. It reminds me of the MIB needing a loophole to kill Jacob- they can’t give Sayid the poison, but they can manipulate Jack into doing it. Also, they preyed on Jack’s biggest fear (his actions leading to harm of others), just like FLock played on Ben’s (being insignificant). If this is true, it means that Sayid (or whoever woke up in his body) is part of the ongoing fight, and is now subject to the “rules.”

I’m curious to know why the TOthers are so anxious to “protect” the group.

@Sonshine- love the Princess Bride reference, it's perfect!

flexible said...

@Teebore-Yes. I did add that, its possible some did not care because I thought it was so obvious, indifference would have to be the reason fot it not to be noticed :)

@JS-Its safe to say that canon says, that Sawyer did pine for Kate in her absence and infact, he said that to Horace. That speech to Horace is exactly why Sawyer and Juliet could not have been lovers for 3 years because if that were true, then that means, Sawyer was lying next to Juliet and thinking of Kate. LOL. So, its anything within 3 years and thats fair enough. Ofcourse, having moved on with Juliet then he was no longer pining, but I am sure I dont need to tell you what happened when Kate returned.

@Nikki-I love that thought of aaron always meant to be with Kate because they both cant sit still, I guess.

Why was Kate crying? Err,,,from her comments all this happened within a 2 day span. ofcourse she would cry. The whole thing. Feeling some guilt, seeing sawyer the same way, I dont think there was any mystery to why she was crying.

They should all cry. Its been a hectic few days. However, sawyer will have to stop that by next episode. We get it, they dont have enough to fill 18 hours and they dont want to give all the answers too soon, so they have to drag on some things, but enough is enough.

Its always fascinating when Lost fans complain about unrealistic things. For example-Claire getting into a cab with Kate or Kate going in a hospital with a gun. We are watching a show, where a man becomes smoke and kills people. Where a woman is strangeld by chains and falls down a pit and blows a hydrogen bomb in her face but still lives to mumble about coffee before she kicks the bucket.....and people are angry that, there were no metal detectors in a hospital or Claire hitched a ride with a woman who came back to give her her bag etc? Come on!

flexible said...

@Sagacious penguin-Kate being my favourite character, I had to respond to your untanglement of the inimitable Ms Austen.
I agree with your points on the 1st 2 seasons of Kate but I would have to add a bit to the 3rd. I dont think her trying to "save" both guys was unappreciated by both. In saving both guys she was putting HERSELF at risk and THEY did not want her to do that which is why they refused her help/suggestions. So, I dont think your analysis is correct in saying it frustrated her and sent her ping ponging. I dont want to go into it but I certainly dont even agree with the assertion that there was some kind of pinponging in season 3.

I agree with the rest up till this season. I do not think Kate is trying to save Sawyer. She is simply being there for him which she has always done since season 1 when nobody else was. At this time, Sawyer is weighed down with too much so ofcourse its unwelcome but I think your "as usual" is misplaced because Sawyer was very welcoming of Kate all previous seasons and infact wanted more than she was willing to give.

What I like is how you say, but she still soldiers on and goes about her business. That is what I like about her. No matter the so called ping ponging in this triangle issue, Kate always still had her own story. Unlike Juliet whose entire story became the triangle. Shoved to Jack. No cigar. Shoved to Sawyer. Then dies. It never ceases to amuse me when people hail her as some kind of great character because an objective view of her story arc is actually worse than Kates but Kate is a far major character so it should be expected I guess ;)

Plus, we have to agree to disagree on what you say, is what Kate does. What Kate does is choose Sawyer. Sawyer is not in a place to accept it or even want to hear about it. So, Kate is sad and probably thinks, she is just like sawyer. Meant to be alone. I cant imagine, how it is putting her torch for sawyer to rest. A few seasons ago when some of us were saying Kate liked Sawyer, some were still claiming it was just sex and all about Jack. Atleast we have progressed:) Us Sawyer and Kate fans. To the stage where the "torch" is recognised and a "laying" of it is asserted but I digress....

flexible said...

It was a Kate centric so certainly from Kates POV, there will be no Kate and Sawyer. However, from the audience POV, I very much doubt, thats the end of Kate and sawyer. It looked more like laying the foundation to build it up again and I would be surprised if they didn't.

They did not hook Juliet and sawyer up in season 5 when Kate returned, only to kill her, so that sawyer would end up alone. They didnt show us all those scenes of Kate carrying a "torch" for sawyer so that Sawyer would never be aware that Kate actually loves him (because as we know, he has never believed that and always believed she wanted the doctor). They did not do all that to end it in episode 3 of the final season. Sawyer once said, "Freckles after all we've been through on this island, dont we deserve something good". well, we've got 15 episodes to go. We are fixing to find out, this final season.

Having said all of the above, I think, even in this episode we saw that the number one man for Kate is Aaron. So, much as she sought Sawyer out, it wasn't to play House...It was to answer his question and seek his help. Kate and sawyer have a strange connection to Aaron. We cant forget that. Only sawyers voice could soothe him. It was Sawyer who handed Aaron to Kate having saved him from Othersville. It was Kate who helped birth Aaron and eventually raised him. Sawyer witnessed the birthing scene in season 5 which was one of the best scenes of the entire 5th season and Carlton promises that, it is significant. So, WHH linking Sawyer and Aaron in Kates heart is no mistake. There is a connection there and it is no wonder she thought him ideal to help her search but its wrong timing. Wrong timing? LOL. Thats a Kate habit. So,Kate is Kate and personally, I wouldn't want her any other way :)

PS:someone mentioned that it was strange Kate called sawyer, James, this episode. Kate called sawyer James way back in season 3 once she found out it was his name. Whenever she was serious she would call him James and when they were "playing" she would say Sawyer. So, its nothing new.

Teebore said...

@flexible:

I won't comment on any of the shipper stuff, because I am beyond caring about any of it, but I did want to comment on this:

We are watching a show, where a man becomes smoke and kills people. Where a woman is strangeld by chains and falls down a pit and blows a hydrogen bomb in her face but still lives to mumble about coffee before she kicks the bucket.....and people are angry that, there were no metal detectors in a hospital or Claire hitched a ride with a woman who came back to give her her bag etc? Come on!

First of all, at least to me, nobody here was angry, per se, about that stuff; it was merely pointed out as something odd, or an example of logic being pushed aside for the sake of plot (which, again, I'm not saying is BAD, just that it happened).

Secondly, just because characters are involved in a story with unrealistic elements (smoke monsters, magic healing islands, etc) doesn't mean those characters are exempt from behaving like real people or consistent with their character, and that's all people are pointing out: cases where characters aren't behaving like normal people for the sake of plot.

For example, if I read a Spider-Man comic book, I accept that in that world, a radioactive spider bite gives someone super powers instead of killing them; but just because I accept that bit of unreality or the fantastic doesn't mean I can't call foul when Spider-Man behaves out of character.

Similarly, just because I accept the notion of a smoke monster on Lost doesn't mean I can't still think "gee, what person would quickly befriend the woman who held her at gunpoint to the point where she wants the hijacker there for significant moments in her life?" for a few seconds before moving on. I understand that what's important is that Claire and Kate are brought together for those significant moments and if the writers need to skim over some otherwise unbelievable behavior to get there, no biggie. But that doesn't mean I can't still point out how, realistically, Claire should have been more apprehensive of Kate and it should have taken longer for her to bond with Kate like she did.

scotminusT said...

@Teebore: Indeed, a wise writing instructor once told me, you may have a talking dog who wears ties and attends a book club, but never forget that he's still a dog and don't ignore his essential doggy-ness. I think good fantasy works best when you ground the extraordinary with what is familiar and believable.

Sagacious Penguin said...

@flexible

Thanks for the response - you make a lot of good points, but as you say we will have to agree to disagree about a few things :)

I think some of what you bring up was on my mind and intended, but I tried to sum it in as few terms as possible. For instance I agree that Sawyer and Jack's lack of appreciation for Kate attempting to help them in Season 3 does definitely include a LARGE component of their just not wanting her at risk. Maybe that's a "nice" motive for not accepting help, but it's still refusing someone something they truly, deeply want/need to offer you - and that's a lack of true appreciation for what that person wants to give. In a relationship you've got to allow a person to put themselves at risk if, otherwise that's denying them equality. Jack in particular does this to Kate ALL the time. 2.11 (The Hunting Party) stands out when he refuses to let her join the A-Team mission.

Where we'll have to agree to disagree is on the ping-ponging. Personally, I've never shipped one way or the other. I've put my investment in what we were shown/told in 2.09 (What Kate Did) that she has feelings for both of these guys.

My view of Season 3 is that, yes, she "chose" Sawyer in "I Do" but - as usual - he was under-appreciative and when she asserted that she wanted to go back in 3.10 (Stranger in a Strange Land) and help Jack, he accused her of sleeping with him out of pity. Kate gave him a chance to take back these remarks in 3.11 (Tricia Tanaka is Dead), but he refused. You said, I believe about 3.06 (I Do), that "while some of us were saying Kate liked Sawyer, some were still claiming it was just sex and all about Jack." Don't forget that at this time, Sawyer himself was one of those people claiming it was just sex - and that's a cold, COLD, reaction to the woman who just gave herself to him. So Kate not being one to put up with that kind of B.S., ditched him and ping-ponged back to Jack - leading the rescue team and bringing him back to the beach.

But - as usual - Jack was under-appreciative: He didn't want her at risk, yes, but he also thought he might be getting off-island on the sub, and he ALSO had made a new friend in Juliet. In what is easily the most blatant ping-pong plot in the series, Kate rejects Sawyer's advances in 3.17 (Catch-22), tries Jack, is shunned in favor of Juliet, and goes back to Sawyer, dejected and accepting rebound sex. It was a lowpoint for Kate's character arch and I'm glad it's been left in the dust.

Season 4 Kate stuck with Sawyer until his anti-baby/family/responsibility remarks in 4.04 (Eggtown). She was then back with Jack at the beach until the rescue. They tried to make things work between them off-island, but his suspiciousness and her worry of not being able to live up to his ruthless ideals (the reason she didn't say anything about Cassidy) drove them apart - helped with a dash of Island-influenced anxiety.

Sagacious Penguin said...

@ flexible (continued)

I agree with what you say about Kate simply trying to be there for Sawyer in this week's episode, I just used the word "save" again to tie it all together as some form of helping/aiding/assisting. It all boils down to the same intent of being there for a person, whether it's just as a shoulder to cry on or as a gun-toting, other-blasting bad-ass.

I say "as usual" about Sawyer's refusal to accept what Kate wants to give in reference to his rejection of her motives in 3.10/11 and belittlement of her priorities in 4.04. Sawyer's no saint, and these kinds of denials remind Kate of precisely what she sees in him that she hated in Wayne and hates in herself (re: 2.09 What Kate Did)

I like how she soldiers on, too - though I disagree that Juliet didn't have as good a story arch. Her story of accepting indoctrination by Richard/Ben/The Others out of a motivation to help her Sister and then the pregnant women on the Island was great, and then followed by her step by step extraction from them be it physical (3.16 One of Us), psychological (4.06 The Other Woman), or emotional (5.08 LaFleur). Sawyer helped her find a life on the Island in spite of her past. The only thing I wish she had a chance to accomplish before death to round out her arch would have been a further "revenge" on the Others/Ben for what they did to her. A shame to loose her now before the writers could have brought the arch full circle. Maybe there's still a chance somehow...

Regarding What Kate Does and what Kate does, I'll agree with you that Kate still has feelings for Sawyer, so she's emotionally still carrying the torch, but to me this episode showed her physically placing that torch on the ground and walking away from it - soldiering on as you say - acknowledging that it will never find fruition. That's my take, anyway. But I also think there are still feelings for Jack there - for both guys as there have always consistently been. It's what we were given in 2.09 and it's what I've always stuck to no matter how many times she "chooses" someone, as she "chose" Sawyer in I Do and she "chose" Jack in Eggtown. Is it weird that I'm so into this discussion but don't ship either way?

Nikki Stafford said...

Sagacious Penguin: Bravo! Excellent work on the Kate analysis. I couldn't have said it better myself, seriously. You and I pretty much agree completely on this character and her very important development throughout the series and what her needs are and how the two men have affected or emphasized those personality traits.

And, like you, I'm fascinated by Kate yet I don't ship her either way. Great job.

paleoblues said...

@flexibe: I realize Kate called Sawyer James when she was talking to him face to face, but rarely, if ever (I'm not sure about never) does she refer to him as James when speaking to a third party (in this case Jack) about him.

myselfixion said...

Where is Vincent?

Lebowski Achiever said...

Flexible - Haven't made it through all the comments, so sorry if someone already mentioned this. You said "Sawyer says what we all knew "I asked her to stay because I did not want to be alone"".

That was right after everythig started to happen and they first got stuck back in the 70's. Juliette said she was going to leave the island even if it wasn't in here time and Sawyer asked here to stay there with him.

This was way before any relationship started with the two. Basically if he had let her leave then, she would still be alive and his heart wouldn't be broken.

Fred said...

In this episode, Dogen "tortures" Sayid to see if he is infected or not. His conclusion is that Sayid is "claimed."

This brings to mind, Season 1, "Solitary" when Rousseau tortures Sayid with electricity. Was she doing the same thing? There is also something ominous in Shannon's translation of Rousseau's message: "the others are dead." Sure, at the time we knew it referenced Rousseau's team, but if understood metaphorically, it means that those claimed are dead. There is then a new sense of being an Other.

This also fits as an other parallel between Season 1 and Season 6.

"Claimed" is such an unusual word, like 'claim baggage' when you retreive baggage. Arzt gives the same line Sawyer did when Christian opened the car door. A car/taxi was invovled with knocking Arzt's bags over.

crazyinlost said...

We're at 184 comments when I write this, so I'm gonna write first and read later.

Sayid-"Jack, what happened to me?"
Jack-"You died."

Of course it's Arzt that blocks the sidewalk! Who else?

Aaron's whale! Bawl! This was the beginning of the end for me with this episode-super hi on the emo monitor!

I thought Jack was gonna kiss Kate, or at least hug her!

What's Lennon reading?

Miles-"We'll be in the food court if you need us" hahaha

Dr. Ethan Goodspeed! OMGosh! The guy who has always creeped me out, no matter what he is doing, or where he is, you mean I might actually be able to LIKE this guy? I like what you said, Nik, that he never got the chance to become "Ethan Rom" if he was evacuated as an infant. That creep-me-out feeling I get every time he's on, wasn't there for the first time!

Seeing Sawyer cry...has to be THE saddest moment on Lost for me. "Some of us are meant to be lonely"-bawl, and bawl and bawl!

Yeah, Nikki, I noticed the paunch also, but it didn't make sense, since he has been doing all those cologne ads and now commercials with his shirt off, and his abs looked pretty ripped to me!

I've never seen the Heimlich manover performed quite like that before. Jack didn't look so good afterwards!

dan said...

wow, Fred, that was something I never considered. Nice catch.

crazyinlost said...

@Marebabe-yes humor is a MUST, it is essential for life! And the "Miles and Hurley Show" as you put it, are always there to deliver!
And Happy Anniversary!

EamonnToGetLost-"Sayid’s test. FAIL – Sick. The SICKNESS. If Jack doesn’t give Sayid the pill, Sayid will no longer be Sayid. Like Robert and the rest of Danielle’s team were no longer themselves. THEY had no pill. Not that they would have taken it anyway."
I hadn't gotten there yet, but I likey!

Blam said...

A bunch o' short catch-up replies (mostly frivolous):

Joan Crawford: Lord help me if Claire is fat!
Oh, come now, Joan. You're just skin and bones. (That's another joke about your picture, which apparently I have to spell out for you. 8^)) <-- And I have a double-chin!

Batcabbage: You know, this reminded me of Gul Dukat playing with Sisko's baseball in Deep Space Nine
Me too — and I thought of you. [Aww...]

Nikki: I'm so glad that Jeff was able to direct some new people over here. I owe that guy an ankh or something. ;)
Careful, Nik. Give some people an ankh and they'll take a Miles.

humanebean: Must be tough getting ribbon replacements on the Island
Don't need 'em. The ribbons just heal themselves. (LOL on "Have a nice baby," BTW.)

paleoblues: Jack! Don't drink the tea!
Relax. All that's in it is a universal antidote, now that the guy's proven that he'll swallow random pills.

Karolyn: I was thinking that The Substitute was referring to Locke.
For some reason, after getting The Who's "Substitute" stuck in my head (not their best song), I flashed to the practice of soap operas on occasion announcing by voiceover that another actor would be playing the role of a regular character for the day (due to illness, etc.). I'm not sure I could handle finally getting back to the Locke storyline only to hear "On tonight's episode, the role of John Locke's body will be performed by Robert Loggia."

Jenn: I heart Richard's lashes
With Nikki having revealed her bondage fantasies about him, I think we should get her one that says "I lash Richard's heart".

Blam said...

just because characters are involved in a story with unrealistic elements ... doesn't mean those characters are exempt from behaving like real people or consistent with their character, and that's all people are pointing out: cases where characters aren't behaving like normal people for the sake of plot.
Spot on! I usually give a Superman example instead of Spider-Man, but I've said much the same thing myself many times.

Blam said...

I meant to label that last one @Teebore, BTW.
@SagaciousPenguin: A very nice analysis of Kate's choices... I look forward to setting aside some time to read your blogpost on the episode.

Teebore said...

@Blam I usually give a Superman example instead of Spider-Man, but I've said much the same thing myself many times.

While I read both Marvel and DC, and love various characters from both companies, my default is set to Marvel. ;)

Blam said...

Fred: "the others are dead"
Hmm... It could be foreshadowing indeed, although when I Googled the line it seems in context to pretty clearly (but not definitively) refer to Rousseau's companions as opposed to the Others. Also, I don't imagine that every Others recruit is drowned to be reborn and thus possessed or whatever might be implied, because we've seen plenty get offed.

Blam said...

crazyinlost: What's Lennon reading?
A book on Marx! 8^)

Gillian Whitfield said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gillian Whitfield said...

@Nikki/Princess Bride fans: Now I can picture Miles looking at Sayid, then saying to Hurley in a Miracle Max way, "Your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. If he was completely dead, well, there's only one thing we could do if he was completely dead. Look through his pockets and search for loose change" :D.

Lindsey Baskum is an anagram for "Used by Malkins". Hmm . . .

Gillian Whitfield said...

@Nikki/Princess Bride fans/me: Now I can see Sawyer saying to Anthony Cooper, "My name is James Ford. You killed my father. Prepare to die," before killing him in "The Brig".

Fred said...

@Blam: In conext every line in the dialogues makes sense. But hints appear when we extract them form their contexts, and read them in light of some other events. Like Charlie's line, "We're just made of time." In context it means, we got plenty of time available to do X. Out of context it is telling in terms of a story about time travel.

I didn't mean being "claimed" was the way you got Others. But claimed individuals are Other Others--so think Christian, Sayid, maybe Rousseau or Mikhail, or possibly many left exposed when dead--Charlotte comes to mind. We will have to wait to see who is doing the claiming.

It is more important to construct the parallels between Season 6 and Season 1. Suddenly, innocent things in Season 1 become less so. And it may also help in understanding the side-world--maybe at some point Lennon will pick up Charlie's guitar and start singing "Across the Universe." When he gets to "nothing's gonna change my world" will we get a side-flash?

Marebabe said...

@crazyinlost: Regarding Josh Holloway’s cologne ads, I happen to know that he was posing for those photos last JULY! A lot can change in 7 months, as you know. And I’m not sure about statements that his added weight is due to packing on sympathy pounds for his pregnant wife, because his daughter was born last April. It makes no difference to me. He’s still completely gorgeous in my book. :) If I had to guess, I’d say that maybe the sleep-deprivation that goes with having a new baby left him too tired to work out as often.

@Blam: LOLZ!! Having Robert Loggia playing the role of John Locke’s BODY! Classic, wonderful, brilliant… Tell me more!

Jenn said...

@Blam

Clever, clever suggestion. I lash Richard's heart. Hilarious. I don't think Nikki would be the only girl around here that would order one! I, myself, want one of each! LOL

@ScottminusT and Teebore

In JRR Tolkien's essay "On Fairy Stories," he proposes that fantastical elements only work when rooted in the reality of the world in which we live. An argument nicely summed up by ScotminusT's comment about his professor and the dog:)

@SonShine Music and Aching Hope

I know I've agreed with you two on all the creepy—wonderful, yet very creepy—palatableness of many Lost characters. But I must draw the line at Ethan. I'm sorry, I just cannot add Ethan to my creepy palatable list. (Hmmm, lists? Of names? Of Lost characters? I think I'm going to need a bigger ankh!)

@Marebabe

Thanks for sharing that sweet story with all of us! Congratulations!

VW: preoust. To oust someone before they are inst.

Marebabe said...

@Blam: One more thing. You reminded me of an old Firesign Theater album from the 70’s (any Firesign Theater fans out there?) entitled “All Hail Marx Lennon”. On the album jacket there were side-by-side pictures of Groucho Marx and John Lennon. I feel an excursion to the attic coming on. A sudden yearning to dig through our stacks of wax. :) (We even still have a working turntable, how about THAT!)

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