Wednesday, February 17, 2010

Not-Locke = Jacob?

What if... what if... Jacob and the Man in Black are one and the same? What if his self split off into two parts, and he USED to look like Jacob, but then his body was taken over by some evil island spirit, and like Ariel in The Tempest, he’s trapped on the island as a supernatural entity and just wants his body back?

If that’s the case, then he can’t kill Jacob simply because Jacob is him, and he can’t kill himself and still have his soul live on. Perhaps he’s trying to kill the body hoping it’ll take out the evil spirit inside, but instead, because the body was so old, it just disintegrated into ashes and now he can’t jump into any other body because his real one is gone, and the evil spirit that was inside Jacob is now roaming the island.

Following this, could the little boy he saw in the wilderness have actually been him? Maybe he came to the island as a young boy and grew up and looked like Jacob before the island’s evil (the thing that needs protecting against) took him over and separated him out. Now he’s trapped on the island and can’t live until he can get back “home,” home being his body. But now that he’s destroyed it, is there any returning to it? He jumps from body to body trying to find the right one (probably the Man in Black on the beach wasn’t what he really looked like, and was just another body he was borrowing).

Of course, if he’d just killed Jacob, then how would this theory work? I know I’m missing key pieces here... can anyone help me out?

Someone suggested during the Globe chat today (it might have been humanebean) that the Man in Black lost a lady love and it’s what drove him to the angry person he is now. If that’s the case, could his original body actually be the Adam of the Adam and Eve skeletons, with Eve being his lady? In which case, it’s not clear why he’s been separated out of that body and can’t return.

Oh, and by the way, I'm aware I've just made a sharp left onto Crazytown Alley with these speculations, so please bear with me. ;)

UPDATE
And as soon as I posted that, humanebean posted a great theory onto my original blog post for "The Substitute," so I wanted to pull it out here:

I've been giving this some thought and it occurs to me that the young boy that UnLocke saw last night might be .... his own son. We've seen characters from our LOSTaways' past appear to them before, to remind them of their past transgressions or evoke in them remorse and regret. Now, a lot of these times we've later assumed that this apparitions were just Smokey (and perhaps they were) but I'm not sure.

Jack obviously sees his late father. Kate sees the horse. (interestingly, so did Sawyer) Hurley sees his imaginary friend, Dave. Eko sees Yemi. Juliet sees Harper Stanhope. Locke sees Taller Ghost Walt. Then last night, UnLocke sees ... a little boy, his arms held out from his sides, smeared with blood.

When he sees him again, he chases after him through the jungle. When he returns to Sawyer, he talks about how he was once a man, who knew what it was to lose someone he loved and to be betrayed. I'm starting to wonder if MIB had a son on the Island who was gravely wounded ... and grew angry and embittered when he couldn't save him, perhaps after a trip to the Temple of his own.

At some point, he aligned with the dark energy of the Island and became one with Smokey. Thereafter, he lurked on the fringes of the Temple, wreaking havoc on those Jacob brought to the Island time and again. Finally, his rage became all-consuming and Jacob's followers had him imprisoned at the Cabin, keeping him surrounded by ash ... until that was disturbed one day and he leapt free to seek his loophole and thereby have his revenge.

OUT there? Absolutely. But surely the vision of his lost son would haunt him in this moment, reminding him (as other apparitions have done for their charges) that repentance is the only escape from damnation.

Of course, someone might have tabbed my iced tea, too. That's always a possibility. ; ]

48 comments:

Marebabe said...

Nikki & humanebean: I can't add to your theorizing or help you out in any way, but I enjoyed the heck out of your new theory. It reads like a Doc Jensen column, and I mean that as a sincere compliment! :) Must think about this some more...

humanebean said...

The more I look at it, the more I lean towards the "Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test" theory.

The appearance of the young boy is deliberately meant to suggest both Jacob AND Locke to us. How can it not? The vest, the peasant blouse, the outstretched arms .... it's almost as though this apparition is supposed to evoke these twin images. And yet ... the shape of his eyes when we see him reminds me more of Claire than anyone - even the curly blond hair makes me think of Aaron. But, that doesn't make any sense, does it?

Hahahahahaha. "make sense". Oh, that's a GOOD one. *phew*

P.S. Seeing "Troup" on the cave wall immediately brought to mind his unpublished (and rightly so) manuscript, Evil Twin ... lending support to your theory, Nik?

JS said...

It makes sense that MiB and Jacob are/were one - two sides, one dark, one light. Yin/Yang. They balance each other. We've been thinking they are two entities but perhaps they are one, and got split somehow. Yes, I like it.

Denes House said...

I believe that the ash that used to be around Jacob's cabin is the ash from previously-burned bodies of Jacob (notice that Elana scoops up Jacob's cremated remains into a bag once she knows that's what they are) and that the boy is a new Jacob. That's my theory, and I'm sticking with it. :o)

Erin said...

Oh, I like this. I like this a lot.

I need to think about it some more...

Fred said...

The idea that Jacob and MiB are one and the same smacks of "The Dark Crystal" were all those muppets split into 2 parts, one light and the other dark. The resolution comes when the crystal is made whole and the Mystics and Skeksis reunite as one being. But I wouldn't put it past the writers to think this, after all Troup did publish "Evil Twin."

As for Locke saying he loved and lost, I think MiB takes over the memories and apparently the phraseology of the person he imitates.He may never have loved and lost, but only recalls Locke's memories as if they were his own. How else would he have understood Locke's last thought?
So I think the boy is a manifestation of the island, not some long lost son of MiB. But I like the association between guilt and "ghosts." I think more along the lines of Henry James "Turn of the Screw." Are the ghosts real or manifestations of the governess' deranged mind? Maybe the island allows individuals to see such manifestations, but if that is the case then Hurley is really in tune with the island--I suggested on the thread of the Substitute that Hurley really isn't seeing ghosts.

When Ilana scoops up the ashes, I immediately thought of past rituals where people ingest the ashes of the dead to return them to the tribe--a kind of immortality among the living. But I think that'd be too icky for most audiences.

Also I think the cabin was a refuge for Jacob, a place to keep MiB out by the circle of ash. It was broken by Hurley falling, allowing MiB to take it over.

Also noticed MiB tripped when chasing the boy. Another instance of the island acting on others to keep to the rules? Perhaps.

Fred said...

Nikki, I do think you were onto something when you talk about MiB needing to switch bodies. Apparently he just can't morph into a new shape. He either is a physical form, or a plasmic smoke shape. But he can take a dead body, but then he may be stuck. Maybe this is why the blond boy appeared and told MiB he can't kill him, meaning Sawyer. Someone somewhere has suggested that once Jacob died, MiB was stuck in Locke's form, which could also make some sense.

Edgar The Bug said...

You know I'm warming up to the idea that Jacob is Aaron. At first I thought it was stupid, but with Aaron not doing a whole lot so far this season it seems like a good way to tie up his being so important.

another thought, since the kid reminds me of Aaron, Jacob, and Sawyer maybe...wait for it...HE'S ALL THREE!!! You see Sawyer is really Aaron and Aaron is Jacob!!! It makes perfect sense if you don't think about it for more than two seconds!!!

Amsted said...

The boy is Jacob re-incarnated. Mystery SOLVED.

Did anybody see that the names on Jacob's wall and their corresponding numbers were divided by hyphens (ie. 15 - Ford) except for Locke's (4 Locke). Maybe that means something, like MIB is misinterpreting Jacob's love of numbers.

I watched it over and in freeze frame just to make sure it was all the same, all had hyphens except Locke's name - maybe Jacob was lazy and meant (FOR Locke).

That being said, it is likely a continuity error as the original closeup had no hyphen but then a camera angle change later the "4" was written differently with the it open instead of closed as shown in the closeup.

So either the writing is subject to change or it is a continuity error.

One final thought - Richard was the personification of cool prior to MIB coming out of the foot statue, a little disappointing seeing him run around the jungle all frazzled and falling apart. Get ahold of yourself man!

Jessica said...

further down the crazy-town road....
MIB=grand daddy of the island, lost his wife (Eve?) and his son (Jacop?) was injured because of a group of outsiders that mysteriously found the island and MIB then tried to heal his son in the temple but the temple changed Jacop and turned him against his father and then MIB was so torn emotionally that his corporal self (Adam) was removed leaving only his smokey presence and a desire to leave the island that caused him so much pain...

Duke said...

I don't know about the ash theory....there would have to be a lot of dead Jacobs for the amount of ash that has been spread around that island.

I do like the "new" Jacob idea, and the one person split in two, and Aaron, and....head going to explode now.

SonshineMusic said...

I like both of these theories and now my brain is going in circles trying to see if there is anything else to add..........................................................................................................................................................nope - nothing else just yet, but I'll sit on it for a while. There went a good night's sleep :)

VW: romin - what Smokey has been doin around the Island all these years

Teebore said...

Oh, I love both these theories. The crazier the better, I say!

Jo Thornley said...

I really like the idea that Smokey is Adam from the cave... It makes sense too, cause those rocks on the balance looked exactly like the ones Adam & Eve were holding.

Sort of off topic, but was that lady who talked to Locke before Rose in The Substitute the same lady who Hurley's dad paid to "get rid" of his curse in Tricia Tanaka is Dead?

She looked similar, but I wasn't sure.

JS said...

How about this - seen on the internets - what if MiB is preventing babies from being born on the island because Jacob can "enter" children?

My add - he didn't do this until the incident, so something happened that enabled him to stop the pregnancies in the 2nd trimester. But that would support the idea that the child is Jacob, and maybe one of the children from the temple.

Jazzygirl said...

Yeah, in terms of a theory, I got nuthin'. LOL
Though I like the Dark Crystal analogy! I loved that movie!

Kimbelry said...

This makes sense for Ilana saying that MIB was "stuck" now in Locke's body because Jacob's body had burned up.

Lynn Allen said...

The young blond boy may well be Aaron, considering how much time-jumping this show indulges in. He must play some prominent role, past, present and/or future, or alternate universe! (Just saw humanebean's comment, so guess I'm not alone in this theory!)

Lynn Allen said...

I just began reading these comments and blog, not to mention having recently purchased your four "Finding Lost" books, so hope I'm not exceeding my privileges. Lots of fun, anyway!

Shari said...

The second I saw the little kid i screamed AARON and my boyfriend immediately shushed me.. I'm glad to see other people thought it could be him too!

On another note - I thought you guys would enjoy this clip from The Soup featuring Michael Emerson. Hilarious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRJvaQuCh5c

Duke said...

I like the tie in with the inability to carry babies to term. Wow.

Stacy said...

Your theory reminds me of a book I read over 25years ago. The girls would have out of body experiences but one girl could not return to her body because an evil spirit had taken over her body. So she was left floating since she did not have a body to return to. If anyone knows the title of this book please speak up. It has haunted me since 7th grade.

Mark R.Y. said...

Because the cave of the scales and scrawled numbers has been mentioned as an allusion to Plato's "The Allegory of the Cave", I dug out my copy of "The Republic" to reread Book 7 to try to find some more insight into the nature of Jacob and the MIB. I found this which is amusing how it relates to LOST (translation by W.H.D. Rouse): Socrates is talking about ideal leadership and says, "Remember that this, as it seems, is no spinning of a shell, it's more than a game; the turning of a soul round from a day which is like night to a true day - this is the ascent into real being, which we shall say is true philosophy."

The translator makes a footnote about the "spinning of a shell" reference: "A game. Boys in two groups would spin a shell, black on one side and white on the other, and according as it fell, one party would run and the other chase. The one who tossed called out, 'Night or Day!'"

I wonder how much those ancient Greek philosophers would dig LOST? ;)

Anonymous said...

I just assumed the blonde child was Jacob, but now you've got me thinking. My understanding was Smokey/Locke could not kill Sawyer because he is a "candidate” for ?????? PLEASE somebody change Hugo’s shirt! I wish I knew someone local who was still watching, I need to sit down and watch with another heart, soul and set of eyes!

verification chlocit- illicit chocolate consumption

Celandine

Joan Crawford said...

@JS -How about this - seen on the internets - what if MiB is preventing babies from being born on the island because Jacob can "enter" children?

Yes, I said this today and I can't even read let alone use the internet without a helper-monkey! I think he destroyed the statue to prevent psychotic Jacob from possessing small children.

Sagacious Penguin said...

Anyone else wonder if "You can't kill him" was in reference to Jacob or Sawyer?

Maybe The Kid was reading MIB's future intentions for our beloved conman...

Verification Word: dicar - what I drove to work this morning *da-dum-ching!*

Ambivalentman said...

Great theory, Nikki! Wow! I don't think it's as far into left field as you do, though.

From day one, "LOST" has always played around with father-child dynamics. Your idea fits well within that theme. Perhaps the event you're theorizing is paralleled by Ben allowing Keamy to kill his daughter. Maybe Nemesis did just that to his son, and like Ben, blamed his enemy (Jacob). This might explain his line about how they come, they kill, they destroy. That sounds like someone jaded by a horrible experience.

I was thinking the boy was some future version of Aaron, but your theory makes a hell of lot more sense. Awesome!

Word verification: "fulamer" -- the parallel world version of the flamer that burns down the banana stand.

Ambivalentman said...

Additional thought: what if by losing his child, the Nemesis made it so that no one else could have a child on the Island (if I can't, you can't)?

This might mean that since Ethan and Aaron are the only two children physically born on the Island, they both would have had to have been conceived off the Island (which we know is true about Aaron, but not necessarily Ethan).

Susan said...

Jo yes same character. (can't type w/ left hand so keeping it short)

Fred said...

Tossing in Aaron at this point doesn't make any sense. Why not Walt, or Ji Yeon, or little Charlie appearing? We've all made the assumption that Aaron is Jacob, only smaller and a reincarnation. But that's because he is blond. So far we don't know if Jacob's real appearance is the one we saw on the beach? Say it is so. But we also know Jacob has lived for a very long time, longer than the Black Rock and going likely into the days of ancient Egypt. So when does someone born on the island in present days become someone who has lived for eons? And if Aaron is the reincarnation of Jacob, then how is it both were alive at the same time? I think the writers threw in some blond kid knowing we'd go down this rabbit hole. Later they'll pull the rug out from under us and show there is a trap door, like when Sayid pulled away the carpet in the Flame station (nice metaphor from the writers).

But I do Like Mark's association of white/black with the shell game from the Republic. Nice find. Also the Republic is older than Christ, a point Locke made about backgammon. As for the fertility problem, that may still be due to the Incident. The irony of Juliet causing the problem she was sent there to fix is terrific. Perhaps we should ask why Ben was trying to fix it. To save Alex? He could have just sent her off the island. But then perhaps Widmore would have killed her on the mainland.

The appearance of the blond kid reminds me of the child appearing in "Jacob's Ladder." He is the angel that guides the protagonist towards accepting the fact he is dead. The child seems more like a guide, like Christian was for Jack in Season 1. Someone on this site already made that connection. All the blond kid needs now is a glass of scotch on the rocks to get that ice tinkling sound as he walks along.

Anonymous said...

I think the kid Not-Locke and Sawyer saw is Aaron

The Question Mark said...

Both these theories are cool and super-creepy to boot!
Can't wait to find out more!

Kevie said...

I like your new theory because my feeling has always been that "Lost" is a parable of the battle between the true self and the false self. The war between light and dark is actually fought inside oneself, between one's true (higher) nature, and one's neurotic idea of oneself. This has played out in all the major characters, so it only follows that the same battle would be playing out in Jacob's own psyche, to the extent that his "dark half" has split off into a separate entity.

Good call.

studiorose said...

I do like the idea that Jacob/Nemesis are one person split in two, but if that's the case, where did the "rule" come from that one half couldn't kill the other? Dead is dead, no matter who does the killin'. So I tend to think they are two separate entities, each beholden to some outside influence that prevents them causing each other harm. (Until the "loophole" was found, of course.)

For another reason, I think an extremely complicated explanation is out the door. This is network TV we're talking about, after all, and, unfortunate as it is, major plot points have to be kept at least relatively simple in order not to alienate the "casual" viewer.

PS: STILL hate that "inside joke" line. Eccch.

Fred said...

@studiorose: yeah, that "inside joke" line kinda bugs me too. What does it mean?

Does it mean the writers have done with inside jokes, like the Scott/Steve confusion? Or the red shirts?

Or does it mean that the whole white/black dichotomy was a red herring? That we have to look at the dynamics of LOST in a new way? Perhaps, John Locke will make a reappearance--was that him when MiB tripped and shouted at the blond kid, "Don't tell me what I can't do!" Are the writers on LOST telling us we are not souls, but we are the collection of our experiences and memories? If MiB so minutely imitated John Locke, right down to his last dying thought, then isn't John Locke alive in MiB's disguise? It would be a way to ressurect Locke without ressurecting Locke's body.

We've already been given a clue to such a possibility when Sawyer said the MiB/Locke wasn't afraid like the old Locke. So if MiB suddenly appears fearful, that might be the personality of Locke coming through. So we should interpret throwing away the white rock not as one side lost, but as we never were in a competition between white and black. LOST is about the doppelganger inside all of us.

Anonymous said...

I like the idea of Flocke and Jacob being two sides of one person...

because it almost seems that is what we are seeing with everyone

Hurley unlucky and Hurley lucky

John with faith, John without

Jack without faith, Jack with

etc

I don't know how to take this thought further..other than...what if that's a huge plot point of this story...that what we are seeing are two parts of one person in different places...

DharmaLady said...

I think "Adam" & "Eve" are Rose & Bernard. I don't think they were close enough to the Swan site & Jughead to get blown back to 2007. They went to the caves for shelter & to die together as Jughead destroyed / sunk the island.

MikeB said...

When Locke was laying on the lawn and the sprinklers went off he actually looked happy. It reminded me of when he was on the island and it started to rain and he didn't run for cover but welcomed it.

Maybe the reason we didn't see Kate's name on the wall is because there is another destiny for her-"Eve"?

Derek said...

I like your theory! By the way, i mentioned you in my blog. My blog is nowhere near successful as yours. I have one follower :/ I started it back in November. I watch each episode of season 6 and I post things I noticed about it, and I also have posts just about Lost I have something to say about it....kinda like your blog. You were my inspiration! You and the Ack Attack. But I keep trying to get more followers. I put a link for it on Lost's page on Facebook and stuff, and I was wondering how you got so well-known. By the way, I am a huge fan of yours, I check your blog everyday, I have all the Finding Lost books, and I think it's awesome that you hate Nikki and Paulo as much as I do :) Anyway, back to my blog, I just mentioned you in my post about "What Kate Does". I talked about the date on the ultrasound and how I never would have noticed that without your help. If you want to check it out, it's imobsessedwithlost.blogspot.com

NanX said...

I posted after last season's finale when we met Jacob and MIB that I thought they were like the Roman God - Janus.

We all have good and evil, light and dark in us - and somehow they split and the reason they could not kill the other would be because they would also be killing them self. Hence the need of the Loophole -
Someone to kill just one half.

I've thought forever there had to be two smokies; one of them scanned Eko but the other one killed Eko. Locke saw one of them but it was the other one that was dragging Locke to that hole.

We have the same clues we always had, the twins, the mirror image (Jack, Kate, Locke all looked in mirrors in the Parallel) the illness is back and the numbers are out again in full force.

I am still no closer to solving this game than I was in Season One but what a trip!

I was thrown by the wall of names. I expected the reveal to be more than another list but I don't believe for a moment anything Not Locke said.

Karolyn said...

Okay, excuse me for saying this, but what the hell is that? I think the blog has been spammed...or does it actually say something about Lost?

Teebore said...

@Karolyn: It's spam. It pops up here and on other blogs from time to time.

JS said...

Just saw something interesting elsewhere - Smokey killed the pilot because he thought he was Frank Lapidus, a candidate!

We didn't see Eko's name on the wall, did we?

Anonymous said...

My first thought was the reason we didn't see Kate on the wall (even though Jacob met her as a child) is maybe she was left off on purpose. So MIB doesn't know she is one of the 'candidates'. But she is on the list. So maybe she is the one who ends up staying to protect the island since she has nothing to go back to and she has (at this time) lost both guys.

Anonymous said...

For some reason an episode of Deep Space Nine, Dramatis Personae keeps popping into my mind with regards to events unfolding on Lost. With the characters trapped in the predicaments of those who came before them.

My gut tells me that Jacob experienced some sort of traumatic event that involved someone he loved (I'm guessing a woman with whom he had a "complicated" relationship. She was probably pregnant and died in childbirth. Some sort of Science/Faith dynamic was involved, and I would guess that it involved Jacob's inability to sacrifice himself.

Through some sort of supernatural occurrence, Jacob has been split, unable to acknowledge his role in whatever happened. He's basically "trapped" in a cycle and is trying to resolve it.

Ben, Widmore, Hawking, Jack, Kate, John, Claire, Rousseau et al have basically become trapped in Jacob's "pattern." Playing different roles (or even aspects of roles) in the drama (Jacob probably brought them because of their inherent "traits". Eko was killed because he wouldn't repent--which angered the "smokey" part of Jacob.

The candidate is the one who will ultimately break the cycle and allow Jacob to be whole. The candidate is also a "substitute" for Jacob. I'm putting my bets on Jack with his complicated relationship with Kate and his father (Jack will achieve catharsis for Jacob by.

Oh course like any theory, this one is full of holes and doesn't take into account a lot of stuff.

Verification word: grapperc: when you mix grappe with rc cola (which I imagine would be disgusting.

CBP68 said...

My teenage son has FINALLY asked to start watching LOST! I started him on disc one, episode one. I would watch a little then walk away. HOWEVER, during the second episode, "Pilot- Part 2," there is a scene of Locke and Walt playing backgammon on the beach. All hell is breaking loose around them, but there is Locke, so happy, explaining the game to Walt. The reference to "black and white" is unbelievable! Locke says the game goes back to Ancient times where the dice was made of bones, etc. CRAZY! Unbelievable that the similiarities are so evident even way back in season one. Go back and watch it. I would like another opinion on it...

SenexMacdonald said...

Nikki & humanebean: "At some point, he aligned with the dark energy of the Island and became one with Smokey. Thereafter, he lurked on the fringes of the Temple, wreaking havoc on those Jacob brought to the Island time and again. Finally, his rage became all-consuming and Jacob's followers had him imprisoned at the Cabin, keeping him surrounded by ash ... until that was disturbed one day and he leapt free to seek his loophole and thereby have his revenge."

Fred said: "Also I think the cabin was a refuge for Jacob, a place to keep MiB out by the circle of ash. It was broken by Hurley falling, allowing MiB to take it over. "

I am coming into this discussion a little late (actually on Sat so about 4 days late). I read over what humanebean wrote and the first thing that came to mind was it appears that everyone who knows of the cabin, including Richard, believes that Jacob is in it. Would Richard not know if it was actually MIB?

Horus built the cabin for himself and his wife. So how did Jacob and/or MIB come to 'reside' in it? Who 'imprisoned' him and why at that point in time (during the Dharma years)? Again, why do people believe - including Richard - that it is Jacob in the cabin?

We already know that the Dharma people built the sonic fence to keep Smokey out so he was around at that time. I believe that Smokey is referenced to even prior to that by others when our group was shifting through time last season.

I agree with Fred that the ash was broken when Hurley approached the cabin, saw the 'eye' and then fell as he ran away. I am also pretty sure that when Locke approached the cabin the first time that he noticed the ash and that the line was disturbed.

So how can Smokey/MIB escape from the cabin if the line of ash was not broken until recently - if it is indeed him in the cabin?

Now I like the idea that Jacob and MIB could be two parts of the same whole. But if MIB is actually in the cabin and he embodies the darker aspect of Smokey, was the line of ash disturbed prior to Echo's death?

The kid was dressed exactly like the Others when we first see them. No shoes, dirty clothes and so on... I do not think he is Aaron, am not sure he is Jacob but I believe that he IS referring to Sawyer. Seems Sawyer is the only one (so far) who sees FLocke as he really is and knows he is not the real Locke.

I am excited by this season and looking forward to what comes next!

LoyallyLOST said...

This really has nothing to do with this subject, but I wanted to share it with everyone & this was the most recent post.
My mom wrote me a letter talking about how this amazing show just keeps getting better & better & on the back of the envelope, she wrote something that I thought was funny, but somehow almost logical!
And, I quote~'We have flash forward, flash back, flash sideways. Next might be flash upside down!' MWAHAHAHAHA! LMBFAO! I didn't know the old woman had that kind of sense of humor! She allllmost makes logical sense on that one!
Just thought I would share this with all the great LOSTies out there!
Namaste!