Many people have pointed out even more differences between the original Flight 815 scene in “Pilot” and the one in “LA X.” I was pointing out some small ones (and as usual, left out the bigger ones so the next morning I could look at comments and go, “DUH…” to myself… seriously, sometimes I miss the forest for the trees, I swear). But let’s see if we can catalogue all of the differences. I think the best way to do this is colour-coding. Let’s put the Pilot in green, and LA X in red; it will be like Christmas!:Cindy offers Jack two liquor bottles, and he responds that this goes against all FAA regulations
Cindy offers Jack one liquor bottle, and he tells her it’ll be their little secret
The seat beside Jack is empty
Desmond’s in the seat… and he’s wearing a wedding band!
Rose is wearing Bernard’s ring on her necklace, he’s in the bathroom, and Jack calms her down while the plane experiences turbulence
Rose isn’t wearing his ring, she ends up calming Jack during the turbulence, and Bernard returns from the bathroom
Charlie snorts heroin, is thrown up into the air and the plane crashes
Charlie goes into the bathroom, may or may not have snorted the heroin, and swallows the bag, either to hide it or to attempt suicide
Walt and Michael are sitting in the seats across from Hurley
Walt and Michael aren’t there
Hurley believes that he’s cursed by the numbers
Hurley believes he’s the luckiest guy in the world, and he’s famous because of his Mr. Cluck’s chicken commercials that he’s been running
Sawyer’s sitting further back in the plane
Sawyer’s only one row behind Hurley
Claire was sitting across from Jack and up a couple of rows
Claire isn’t in the vicinity
Shannon and Boone were traveling together in first class
Shannon doesn’t get on the plane, and Boone is sitting in the same row as John Locke
John Locke didn’t go on the walkabout and is carried onto the plane, humiliated
They have a wheelchair for John, and I believe he makes up a story about going on the walkabout. Others think in the alternate timeline he still went on it, but I don’t think so. First, he wouldn’t have been on that flight; he would have been on one two weeks later… Unless the date of the flight is different? I just think he makes it up because… maybe in the new timeline Ben Linus is in his body. Har har…
Jin and Sun are married, he’s hopeful that after he delivers the two watches they’ll be able to take off on a life together.
Jin and Sun aren’t married – he’s not wearing a wedding band at customs, and they refer to her as “Ms Paik,” which is her maiden name. He’s only got one watch with him, not two. She’s wearing a small ring, so it’s not clear if it’s an engagement ring or just a ring. It’s also not clear if she can speak English (she DOES seem to understand the guards, but is still afraid to tell Jin, if that’s the case).
Sayid is sitting closer to Shannon and Boone near the front of the plane, and keeps to himself
Sayid is sitting further back in the plane, and helps out Jack with Charlie
Kate and the marshal are on the plane and he treats her like dirt
Kate and the marshal are on the plane and he treats her like dirt. Although, I noticed where before he seemed to loathe her, there seems to be the tiniest bit of tenderness for her this time around. He gives in to her a little too easily, more easily than he did before, where he wouldn’t budge at all with her before.
48 comments:
I love this, Nikki! My husband and I were trying to spot the differences on the plane, see who was missing etc. You and your eagle eyes have noticed a few things we missed.
Nikki - there's a video out there with the side by side comparison focused on Jack. The look on his face when the turbulence ends was definitely meant to make us believe he was realizing something was different.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-1qzelSWpE
Kate and the marshal are on the plane and he treats her like dirt. Although, I noticed where before he seemed to loathe her, there seems to be the tiniest bit of tenderness for her this time around. He gives in to her a little too easily, more easily than he did before, where he wouldn’t budge at all with her before.
Yeah, I felt that, too. You could see they had some sort of bond when she was all "I have to go" and he's like "No" and then she gives him a look and he relents, without being a big jerk about it.
Nikki:Shannon and Boone were traveling together in first class
Shannon doesn’t get on the plane, and Boone is sitting in the same row as John Locke
Acutally, if I am remembering correctly, Shannon was particularly bitchy because they didn't get into first class, then later grateful as they would have been dead.
Wouldn't it be something if it was Jin who now knew english and was keeping it a secret from his wife. Maybe Sun has become a little more ruthless, like the 2007 version, and Jin is trying to leave her, not the other way around. Who put the money there we'll have to find out later? But I bet Jin didn't know about it. I would have re rewatch that scene and see if any of their reactions indicate anything.
re the idea of John lying about the walkabout...I too was wondering about the timeline if he actually went on the walkabout; then I realized that we don't know how much time John spent in Australia (during the "Walkabout" episode) before getting on 815. The walkabout dude says they will pay for John's way back to Sydney; maybe he took a bit of time to get the money for the return flight to the States. So it's still possible that the new timeline John did go on the walkabout.
On rereading what I wrote, I really really hope it makes sense!
How on EARTH did I miss the Ms. Paik thing? That's huge.
@Susan: It definitely makes sense. Also, maybe in this story Locke went to Australia earlier... who knows. After telling the story he did seem sad though, so maybe he was lying.
@Nikki: I think someone mentioned in teh original post that one fo the watches was to be delivered in Sydney. If that's correct, he should only have one regardless. But it's only a minor detail. Great comparisons.
Also, why is Frank still not the pilot of 815 as he was supposed to be? I guess what made him be replaced originally still occured!
@Benny: Regarding Frank, that's true. It seems it would have fit in with the whole "one of these things is not like the other..." motif they had going on if Lapidus were the pilot this time around instead of Seth. Hmm...
@Nikki: I totally missed the Ms. Paik thing, too! That might be very important.
If we're assuming that in this new timeline where everyone lands safely, Jacob never touched any of them before, then that may have an impact on Sun & Jin's marriage. He did, after all, touch them on their wedding day. Do you think maybe because he was absent (if he was at all) something happened and their marriage fell apart? Or maybe Sun & Jin were travelling together, but not as a couple at all, rather as business partners? Maybe she bought out her father and is now Jin's superior!
I can't believe I didn't notice them calling Sun "Ms. Paik"!
I wonder if maybe everyone in the alternate reality will end up fixing their lives. Like, Locke could learn to walk again, and Jack could stop obsessively fixing things, and Claire could not give up Aaron, and Sun and Jin could get married and then actually be happy.... Okay, I know... that would be sort of cheesy... I'll stop.
Joan Crawford: Yeah, I felt that, too. You could see they had some sort of bond when she was all "I have to go" and he's like "No" and then she gives him a look and he relents, without being a big jerk about it.
I noticed he seemed a lot nicer this time around. Actually, I had a crazy moment of thinking that they were married, but I didn't give it any thought, it was just sort of spontaneous...
As usual, Benny is correct. The reason Jin and Sun were in Sydney in the first place was to deliver watch #1.
I noticed that Rose was the calm one at the beginning, during turbulence. In the real timeline it was Jack that reassured Rose that it's normal for planes to experience turbulence.
Maybe the marshal was being hard with her and then being "easy" with her because she was going to be going to jail or a trial.
verification word: wortaxes- you have to pay these taxes if you want to go to war.
This is fun, it really is, but I'd like to be a realist for a minute. Sure, there are probably a few differences purposefully made from the pilot to the scene seen in 'LA X.' For example, Desmond showing up. The scratch on Jack's neck. Then, there are some that are more of a necessity for the show. For example, Shannon not being there (the actress wasn't available). Jack's hair being longer (he's still filming scenes for the on-island events). People in different seats (I see this more of a function of storytelling than deliberate. It would be a lot less interesting if Sawyer was off sitting by himself). Finally, there are some that aren't differences so much as we didn't get to see them play out the first time around because of the crash. For example, Bernard returning from the bathroom, or Charlie swallowing the bag of drugs. If we extrapolate what they WOULD have done had the plane not crashed in the pilot episode, we can logically assume those things would have played out as we're seeing them now. I think we're being too over-analytical and should be focusing more on the big picture: a bomb set off in 1977 prevented Oceanic 815 from crashing in (we're assuming) 2004. With 30 years of effects from that event, there will, of course, be subtle differences.
@Marshall: But we do see and hear significant differences. Michael and Walt were sitting opposite Hurley, now Sawyer is there.
Boone says that he went to Australia to get his sister out of a relationship but "she didn't want to". Hence she didn't come back with him.
This confirms that Michael, Walt and Shannon for 3 are not on the plane.
MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD
It can't be an availability issue for all of them since Michael is coming back. For Shannon, it could have been alluded that she had just gone to the washroom instead of not putting her on the plane.
The Sawyer and Hurley conversation could have happened at another spot.
Also, if you remember the ComiCon videos, which include the new Hurley's Outback Chicken commercial, Kate was a fugitive not for having killed her father but his assistant. I'm quite certain this would be alluded to later on. It could also explain why she did not care for the case, her fugitive history has changed.
Not a difference, but somewhat interesting and fun to look for - Jack's nick on the left side of his neck (he looks at it in the bathroom mirror) is reminiscent of Des in "flashes before your eyes" after he wakes up from a consciousness jump in red paint. As he gets ready to meet Mr. Widmore to ask for Penny's hand, she finds a spec of red paint on the left side of his neck. Coincidence? Probs. But if not, it could be a parallel and Jack may have his consciousness "jump" to the alternate reality. Maybe Des's specialness is that his consciousness jumped but within the same reality.
Or, I am reading too many LOST sites.
BTW - Darlton confirmed on podcast that Locke is lying about going on the walkabout.
Jo it may be cheesy but after 5 seasons of these characters I would like to see them with happy endings.
JS: "Or, I am reading too many LOST sites." ROFL I have that same problem.
1) Jack had his famous stubble. He is now clean shaven.
2) Rose said "My husband keeps reminding me that plane want to BE in the air. She now says "My husband says that planes want to STAY in the air".
3) Locke dropped the airplane emergency pamphlet and couldn't reach it. He is now reading it before talking to Boone.
4) Except for Cindy, all of the flight attendants are different.
Contrary to popular belief, Rose is not wearing Bernard’s ring on her necklace in "Pilot".
My sister had a brilliant theory about Cindy and the bottle, but she wants to be the one to posit it, so I will tantalize you all with that :)
Finally! Google let me back on after they emailed me and found I am not a Turing machine. It's a weird story, but I can now log back on.
What struck me about the differences between the Pilot episode and this Season's opener is the focus on 'singularity'--best illustrated by Cindy handing Jack ONE bottle not TWO. A key theme in the previous 5 Seasons has been duality--two sides, two players, the name "Thomas" translated as "twin", the reference to Adam and Eve, yin-yang, Jacob/MiB. And now we get singularity--one vodka bottle, Boone alone, Ms Paik (perhaps not married, single). This is a universe in which a single fate controls events, and as we will likely see without balance (yin-yang as Mr. Dogen of the Temple would say) the universe tends to only one outcome. This is likely a universe in which Susan did not die, and that is why Walt and Michael were not seen on board Oceanic.
As a genre, LOST includes much of the Gothic paraphernalia--subterranean passages, a monster, themes of diabolical powers, mental distress/madness, religious rituals, questions of fate/free will, and the corruption of human passions, vanities, and evil. So while we search for a reason for the island being at the bottom of the ocean, we should also see it as a manifestation of the Gothic genre. The island's watery presence hints at the delusion of effecting change (it is the unconscious wishing to reemerge into the world--foreshadowed by Sayid dying and coming back to life after being submerged in the Temple's pool). The watery island also may represent the imagination, perhaps a reference to Haroun--the dying of the imagination and what is needed to ressurect it. In this sense, Jack's attempt to redo the future through detonating Jughead effectively cut off the world from the life-force represented by the island. But the unconscious will always resurface. The suffering and guilt that made up so much of the previous Seasons will through a chain of events reestablish their hold over the main characters. Narrative moves towards a final stable state, but that will not happen with this side-stepped universe. Think of this universe as another passage in a large labyrinth with a likely dead end. But for the moment, this reality satisfies a desire both characters and audience have had for such a long time. Jack seeing this redo as another form of escaping the island (really a major step up in his understanding from the first Season). And satisfaction of a new storytelling device for the audience.
Like the episode, "The Other 48 Days" and the first 6 episodes of Season 3, this storyline will devolve, and we will likely see how elements from the island make themselves manifest in the wider world. Instead of the Gothic devices being restricted to the island (read "haunted house") as they were in earlier Seasons, in this universe these devices will be externalised throughout the everyday world. In this respect, Jack should begin to "see" the double world he left on the island. A hint was presented in the spot of blood on his neck (if LOST has a dominant colour, it is red, much as "The Sixth Sense" used red in such a telling manner). But already it has been highlighted in conversations--such as bernard saying he knows how the laundry feels in the dryer, recalling the washer/dryer from the Swan hatch. As well, Sayid foreably kick open the door to the bathroom to save Charlie, just as the hatch door was blown open, and Desmond was freed (Desmond had been contemplating suicide before).
The underwater island reminds us of who died, just as earlier the presense of puppets (Ben and Annie), the dolls Jack found at the caves, the gold Jesus and picture of St. Thomas also remind us of the dead from earlier episodes. The colour red as in red shirts, finds a correlate in 6th Sense where Cole sees the dead (Cole is also seen wearing a red shirt).
One other thing, when Jack interacts with the various Losties on the plane it is reminiscent of Jacob touching everyone. Kate opens the bathroom door and bumps into Jack, stealing the pen. Jack hands a card to Locke, a similar motion to Jacob handing a candy bar to Jack. Certainly, Jack did not get around to everyone on the plane, but there is some parallels between Jacob's meeting everyone and Jack (perhaps in later epsidoes we will see this).
Another thing. Jacob appears on the island to Hurley only to tell him he died an hour ago. When Locke went to the cabin, both he and Ben did not see anyone there. But Hurley did see someone sitting on the chair. Likely as not, that person is dead. This introduces a third player into the mix, beyond Jacob and MiB. Now the big question--who was guarding this figure?
While we know that LA X Locke did not go on a Walkabout, what he is describing to Boone (having only packs and knives, sleeping under the stars, hunting, getting their own food) is how original Locke and the Losties did live on the island. Even though original Locke was not allowed to go on his Walkabout in Australia, his entire experience on the island has been his own personal Walkabout.
Blam had longer hair, glasses, finger at his chin and was looking to the right. He now has shorter hair, no glasses, fuller beard, finger to the side and is looking straight at us. Luv it, brother.
Verf: hopacc...a kangaroo that plays college basketball on the East Coast
Ok...if in this alternate universe, Jacob was never able to touch anyone, then Sayid would have been hit by the car with Nadia. Maybe he died on impact, but his soul was transported immediately to Sayid in the temple. Hence the "what happened?" I would love this because he would not be dead...but then again, he WOULD be dead in the alternate universe. Ok...we need episode 6.03. Stat.
@Fred: The first time Locke went to the cabin (w/ Ben) he DID see the vague silhouette of someone. As for Hurley, he saw suit-Christian sitting in that chair.
@Lisa: but in the 'alternate' that doesn't happen for another 3 years (which is fine) but we don't know it's going to happen at all... wait and see though. Interesting idea!
@benny: I agree Hurley saw somehting that looked like Christian, and probably was Christian. But Locke did not see anything. He heard a voice say "help me" and then Ben was thrown against the wall. In screen captures there is a vague blurry image for a brief second, but Locke never alludes to that when he talks with Ben. My best bet is the figure in the chair was a ghost, and someone we don't know. It can't be Jacob because he is material; and neither MiB as we see the monster roaming the island from the first episode. Christian is also seen wander the island from the start. Now i will believe Christian is holding somweone in the cabin, and that is the eye Hurley sees. But there is someone else, and this person is important to the story--dare I say Alvar Hanso? Probably someone from the ARG, who has to make his introduction without too much build up in storyline.
The Question Mark sez: "Or maybe Sun & Jin were travelling together, but not as a couple at all, rather as business partners? Maybe she bought out her father and is now Jin's superior!"
Nice theory, except if that were true, Jin wouldn't DARE instruct her to button her sweater! They're clearly a couple, but not a happy one. It will be interesting to see whether Sun really does know English in their alternate reality.
Sawyer still likes nicknames. As Cindy passes him to attend to Charlie he says "What's going on back there Earhart?"
Also, Charlie wasn't chased into the restroom this time. He had been in there for about a half hour already.
Benny: Also, why is Frank still not the pilot of 815 as he was supposed to be?
Ooh... I didn't even think of that, prolly 'cause it was so cool to hear GG's voice.
paleoblues: My sister had a brilliant theory about Cindy and the bottle, but she wants to be the one to posit it, so I will tantalize you all with that :)
Lemme guess: Jacob is a genie?
Sonshine Music: Blam had longer hair, glasses, finger at his chin and was looking to the right. He now has shorter hair, no glasses, fuller beard, finger to the side and is looking straight at us. Luv it, brother.
Ha! It's a man's prerogative, don'tcha know.
VW: coape — Your gorilla sweetheart.
Thank you Benny...you are right about the time-line. Lost sure keeps all of us guessing and confused.
I am also wondering if the plane flight in the alternate universe is even taking place in 2004...could it be 2010? As in LA "X"? Is it possible all of this takes place AFTER the final conflict? I know this sounds crazy and it makes absoloutely no sense...but LOST is always a big "?" mark.
Lisa, that's completely true. We don't actually KNOW for sure what year it is.
As I mentioned in an earlier comment (don't know which post), the chances that they are all in the same plane from Australia to Sydney, wearing the same clothes, with Seth Norris as the pilot are quite slim, even when allowing for the butterfly effect.
So I'll assume it is Sept. 22 2004 until shown otherwise.
arzt and frogurt are new this time around, no? love them both!
@steven christopher coleman - love the interesting idea that maybe the tables have turned and jin now is the one wanting to take the money and ditch sun!
@js - so they said for sure that john was lying? i guess we all figured that anyhow, unfortunately!
@lisa & benny - seems that they do want us to believe it's the same date, 9-22-04 - would make sense to restart at the same point. i've seen several folks here wonder if we could be seeing a future
flight and i love the idea, @lisa, that the 'X' could be as in 10, 2010! Cool idea!!
My favorite exchange in this episode:
Boone: “You’re not pulling my leg, are ya?”
(Jack pulled his leg after he re-crashed on the island in the smuggler’s plane)
Locke (smiling): “Why would I pull your leg?”
(Boone was in the smuggler’s plane because Locke’s legs weren’t working. His legs are also not working now, so why would he want to pull anyone else's leg?)
Way cool writing!
FYI Re iTunes : Anyone downloading this episode from iTunes has noticed it has been edited into 2 parts (as usual) and I assume this is how it will be on the DVD release. There has been some minor reordering of scenes,but the following sections of two scenes from Part 1 have been completely edited out.
1) Inside the foot of the statue, after Not Locke says “Jacob’s gone. He’s gone” (@19:46).
Ben: Why didn’t he fight back. Why did he let me just kill him?
Not Locke: I guess he knew that he was beaten.
(@19:47) Ben looks up. Not Locke continues: Ben, I want you to go outside..................
2) On the beach, as Richard and Ben are looking at Locke’s dead body (@31:40).
Richard: Ben, you need to talk to me. I can’t stop them unless you tell me what happened in there. What happened to Jacob? You and I have known each other for 30 years, Ben. I’m asking you this as a friend.
Ben: You want to know what happened, Richard? Why don’t you go inside and find out?
(@31:41) Bram approaches..............
We’ve been so excited by the differences we see on the plane that we are neglecting the differences in our 2007 “returnees”. I think we should expect variations in both timelines after the “split”.
1) When Hurley says a man named Jacob told him what to do, Jack says “Who’s Jacob?”.
Have neither of them heard this name on the island before?
2) Hurley takes charge and the fact that Jack allows him to.
3) Jack seems meeker. He gives up on Sayid in the van as well as in the temple.
4) Richard is so animated and even Ben seems a little off his game.
5) Juliet seems to “time shift”. Perhaps the dying or dead can shift between timelines.
I’m sure we’ll find more if we “shift” our focus.
I spotted one very minor difference that I don’t think anyone has mentioned yet. Sayid’s photo of Nadia is different. It’s the same image of her, where it looks like she’s a student walking along some university campus, except that originally it was a wider shot, so more background was visible, and the photo was printed horizontally or “landscape”-style. In LA X, it looks like an enlargement of the same shot that was cropped differently, so that there’s hardly anything visible in the photo except Nadia, and it’s now printed vertically or “portrait”-style.
I spotted one very minor difference that I don’t think anyone has mentioned yet. Sayid’s photo of Nadia is different. It’s the same image of her, where it looks like she’s a student walking along some university campus, except that originally it was a wider shot, so more background was visible, and the photo was printed horizontally or “landscape”-style. In LA X, it looks like an enlargement of the same shot that was cropped differently, so that there’s hardly anything visible in the photo except Nadia, and it’s now printed vertically or “portrait”-style.
I was thinking about Rose and Bernard on the way home from work late Friday night, and something occurred to me that I hadn't thought about before. The question of destiny vs. free will has always been such a huge part of the show, unquestionably one of the grand overarching themes of the entire series, if not the absolute axis point. And now, with the flash-sideways, as we're calling it, we have suddenly been offered a perfect view of exactly how it all breaks down, what is truly fated to happen versus what was outside influence, and all I've been able to focus on are the differences.
What I mean to say is that I think we should be paying every bit as much attention, if not more so, to what is THE SAME. If what we're truly dealing with is a world in which Jacob/The Island has had absolutely no influence in these people's lives, at least for the past thirty years, then doesn't it stand to reason that the most significant information we're receiving is the knowledge of what would have happened regardless?
Oooh - I heard her say Ms.Paik and I didn't even notice the rest of the signs!
Thanks for the list.
My money’s always been on Hurley to ultimately “save the day”. If so, a red shirt no longer means sayonara. (You say goodbye and I say hello, dude),
Jin's speech pattern in 2007 sounds like Tonto in the Lone Ranger.
Is the blood on Jack's neck (LA X)a remnant of the blood all over his face in 2007?
verf: unkednes...kids who wear PF Flyers
Joshua: If what we're truly dealing with is a world in which Jacob/The Island has had absolutely no influence in these people's lives, at least for the past thirty years, then doesn't it stand to reason that the most significant information we're receiving is the knowledge of what would have happened regardless?
A great observation!
@joshua: Excellent. I agree. I thought from the beginning that the whole point of panning down to the sunken island was to show that the folks on LAX flight 815, and probalbly everyone else on earth except maybe James Cameron, are totally unaware of it ever having existed. La. La, La. La, Life goes on.
Verf: chamoloo....cloth you use in the shower to wash your hair
I was re-watching the first ep with my mum when I suddenly yelled: "That's why Cindy only gave Jack one in the parallel universe!!!!" Why? Because the only reason he needed two was because he got in a crash and had to use it to stitch up his side. Does this mean the island can control little things like that? Does that mean Cindy is some kind of other?
@AchingHope: Awesome!!
Whoa. Aching Hope, thou hast just blown my mind.
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