“I don’t want you to spend your life waiting for a miracle, Helen, because there’s no such thing.”I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVED this episode. There isn’t enough space on this blog to express my love for this episode (if I were doing a video podcast, I’d be squeaking right now!). In this reality, Locke is happily with Helen, and while he has short bursts of anger, they’re nothing out of the ordinary (who among us would keep their cool if they’d just been fired and then some idiot had parked his Hummer right next to the only access we had to our vehicle?). But he doesn’t believe in miracles or destiny. He’s no longer a man of faith. He accepts what has happened to him and helps those around accept it, too. While his new lifestyle is one that gives him more contentment, and will definitely make him a happier person where better things will no doubt happen to him, I felt a little empty at this idea of a faithless Locke. He’s accepted what has happened to him, but... if Jack could perform a miracle, and make Locke walk, would it make him a happier man? When he looked at Helen and said there’s no such thing as miracles, I actually moaned out loud, “Oh, say it ain’t so, Locke!”
“You know the rules...”
Rules! They were first mentioned by Ben when Alex was killed and he muttered that Widmore had changed the rules. There’s always been a link between the Widmore/Ben war and the Jacob/MiB one, and in “The Shape of Things to Come,” Ben tells Widmore that he knows Ben can’t kill Widmore, and in “The Incident,” the MiB can’t kill Jacob. Here the mini-Jacob tells Not-Locke that he knows he can’t kill him. Does this mean that Jacob is only merely dead, and is NOT most sincerely dead?
Highlights:
• HELEN!!! When I was doing interviews for the lead-up to the premiere, an interviewer asked me what I would love to happen most if there was a do-over. I said, “I wish Helen would be alive and she and Locke would be together and happy.” Wish = granted!!!
• Smokey cam! That trip through the jungle was wicked. Imagine how quickly you could get from place to place if you could just turn yourself into a pillar of smoke and move around like that.
• “People seldom get a second chance.” I loved that line. It was a toss-up between that and the miracle one about which I'd put at the top of this blog post.
• “Well, I guess I’d better put some pants on.” Haha!
• “Randy Nations? Yeah... that guy is a huge douche.” LOLZ!!!!! I had just finished saying to my husband that “A Dick in Every Reality: The Randy Nations Story” could be his memoir title.
• I don’t know why, but I just got the weirdest kick out of crazed panicky Richard being the unhinged loser trying to lure Sawyer, who just stands there and tells him to get lost before Richard scurries back into the jungle.
• Not-Locke’s amazing soliloquy: “I know what it’s like to feel joy, to feel pain, anger, fear, to experience betrayal. I know what it’s like to lose someone you love. If you want to shoot me, shoot me, but you are so close, James. It would be such a shame to turn back now.”
• Ben gives the best eulogy ever: “John Locke was a... a believer. He was a man of faith. He was... a much better man than I will ever be. And I’m very sorry I murdered him.”
• Frank’s response: “This is the weirdest damn funeral I’ve ever been to.” HA!!
• Not-Locke throwing the rock and explaining it as an “inside joke.” Hahaha!!
• Ben as that guy in the teacher’s lounge. High-larious.
Answers:
• The numbers correspond to 6 of the 7 people that Jacob touched. We don’t know why he chose those numbers (but you kinda hope there’s a little more to the numbers than THAT).
• Jacob was touching people to push their lives in a direction that would get them to the island, where they could be a candidate.
• By “candidate” they mean a new leader who will protect the island.
Did You Notice?:
• Locke’s neighbourhood looked like the same one Nadia was in when he was doing her home inspection.
• The moment the sprinklers came on and Locke started smiling, I knew his alternate life was WAY different than the one we know.
• When Locke looks at the furniture swatches, he at first chooses the one that’s hunter green.
• There were a lot of parallels between this episode and “Walkabout,” the original Locke episode from season 1. We see him at the office with Randy being a huge dick, we see him with a “Helen” (though the one in “Walkabout” wasn’t exactly the same thing), we see a version of Locke yelling that you can’t tell him what he can’t do...
• Someone pointed this out in the comments: have you noticed, by the way, that the flashbacks are following the same sequence as S1? First ep a two-parter that covered off many of the survivors, ep 3 a Kate-centric one, ep 4 a Locke-centric one... does this mean next week is Jack-centric and the following week will focus on Sun? Presumably ep 7 won’t be about Chah-lie...
• When Locke is sitting in his cubicle, you can see a photograph of him and Cooper hunting on the day that Cooper told him about needing a new kidney.
• I love that one of the first times we know Ben is actually telling the truth, it sounds completely preposterous.
• Sawyer’s listening to Iggy Pop and The Stooges’ “Search and Destroy,” from the Bowie-produced version of the Raw Power record. Oddly, the song plays when Smokey peeks in the window, and then it’s still playing when he shows up later. Maybe James was stumbling out to keep repeating the song. The lyrics are eerily appropriate (bolds are mine):
I'm a street walking cheetah
with a heart full of napalm
I'm a runaway son of the nuclear A-bomb
I am a world's forgotten boy
The one who searches and destroys
Honey gotta help me please
Somebody gotta save my soul
Baby detonates for me
Look out honey, 'cause I'm using technology !
Ain't got time to make no apology
Soul radiation in the dead of night
Love in the middle of a fire fight
Honey gotta strike me blind
Somebody gotta save my soul
Baby penetrates my mind
And I'm the world's forgotten boy
The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy
And honey I'm the world's forgotten boy
The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy
Forgotten boy, forgotten boy
Forgotten boy said
hey forgotten boy
• How much do I love that everyone else was duped by Not-Locke, but Sawyer immediately sees through the veil. “Locke was scared, even when he was pretending he wasn’t. But you... you ain’t scared.”
• I know the actors are paid well on this show, but I don't think you could pay me enough to have that sandcrab or tarantula or whatever the HELL that thing was that scuttled over dead Locke's head. :::SHUDDER::: Seriously, I screamed louder at that sight than I did when Sawyer's ladder broke.
• Locke’s platform stops before hitting Hurley’s Hummer because Hurley’s the luckiest guy in the world. Perhaps the cosmos prevented it from actually hitting it.
• Love the new dapper Hurley (though I’m still partial to the old one!)
• The loopy career counsellor who asks Locke what animal he would describe himself as was the fake fortune-teller that Papa Reyes hired to try to trick Hurley in “Tricia Tanaka Is Dead.”
• Rose is the same no-nonsense person in this reality as she is in the other one.
• The last time Sawyer recounted the final scene in Of Mice and Men, Ben was walking him up the hill to show him the other island. Sawyer put himself in Lenny’s place and was calling Ben “George.” But in this instance, he sees himself as George, and Not-Locke is the Lenny he’s out in the jungle to execute.
• Jack’s cell number is the same in both realities! (And someone should have proofread that business card: the last number is missing the dash in the number. Sloppy!)
• Helen is wearing a shirt that says “Peace & Karma, Joy and Tranquility.”
• Inside the cave is a scale with one white rock, one black one. Bigger versions of the small rocks inside Adam and Eve’s pouch. Also, the Egyptian god Anubis would weigh the hearts of the dead on a scale as they were preparing for the afterlife.
• How perfect is it that Ben is the REALLY annoying, petty, anal guy in the teacher’s lounge? (And by the way, he looks EXACTLY like the European History prof I had in university, except the guy had snow-white hair. But otherwise, down to the glasses and annoyingness, he’s THAT GUY.)
The Numbers:
Locke gets up at 6:15. St. Sebastian Hospital is located at 8444 Wilshire Blvd. Locke asks the class to open their books to Chapter 4. Many of the people Jacob touched all correspond to a number: 15: Ford; 16: Jarrah; 8: Reyes; 42: Kwon; 23: Shephard; 4:Locke.
So Many Questions...
• I’m thinking Locke didn’t end up in the wheelchair because his father threw him out a window this time. Perhaps Cooper was still behind it somehow, but why else would Helen say they should invite his dad and her parents to a shotgun wedding? (Unless of course she meant that the shotgun was aimed at Cooper.)
• Have we ever seen Richard this unhinged? His eyes are wild as Not-Locke is talking.
• Who is the little boy? Is it a little Jacob? Does this mean that the dead people on the island aren’t actually the Man in Black’s doing? Could Yemi and Christian be powered by something else?
• What will Ilana do with Jacob’s ashes?
• Why can Sawyer see the kid, but Richard couldn’t? Does that make him THE candidate?
• If Not-Locke uses the same catchphrase as Locke, is it possible there’s any of Locke’s personality in that body?
• Why didn’t Rose talk to Hurley at all when she was on the plane with him?
• If Rose still has cancer in this reality, was she at Isaac’s place in Australia? Was Bernard so happy on the plane because he believed she’d been healed? Or has she convinced him to just allow her to enjoy the time she has left and they were just having a fun vacation?
• Who WAS Not-Locke when he was a real man? He was a man pre-1930s. We’ve seen the Man in Black in the 19th century, but it’s not clear if THAT was actually him as a man. Perhaps he was just wearing a man-suit back then, too.
• Why is Not-Locke stuck this way, as Ilana says?
• Was anyone else scared there’d be a dug-up empty grave on the beach with some diamonds scattered in it?!
• By “Kwon,” was Jacob referring to both of them? (Are they the island’s Adam and Eve?)
• Why wasn’t Kate one of the numbers?
• Why were the very people that Jacob thought were candidates the same ones who actually left the island? (With the exception of Sawyer?) Is the fact that Sawyer is the only one who stayed behind significant?
• When Eloise sent them all back to the island, was she in cahoots with Jacob somehow?
• When Sawyer said “yes,” is there a possibility that Not-Locke will try to kill him to use his body, or was Ilana right and he’s stuck in Locke’s?
Reminder: I now do a quick recap of the week’s episode on a radio show every Wednesday morning at 9. Tomorrow listen in to Marshall and Forbes on The Ocean 98.5 in Victoria, BC at 6 a.m. local time, 9 a.m. EST. Go here and click on the Listen Now button if you’re out of the listening area.
And tomorrow at noon I will once again be participating in the Globe and Mail Lost chat from noon to 1pm EST. Go here to ask questions and comment. See you there!
And finally: Stay tuned to this space, because later this week, I will be unveiling something that is very exciting to me: the Finding Lost: Season 6 cover!! I can't wait to show all of you!
Next week:
279 comments:
1 – 200 of 279 Newer› Newest»I think that whoever it was at ABC that came up with the line, “The time for questions is over” doesn’t actually watch the show. ;) But I also think that I don’t even mind that an episode is filled with dense layers of mystery when the story has to do with NotLocke, Ben, Richard and Sawyer. Speaking of Sawyer, by the end of the episode, I had made a guess that Sawyer is the “Substitute” in the title. Time will tell.
This episode was full of delights and surprises. Getting to see the first-person viewpoint of Smokey! Helen! Rose! (She sure looked pretty.) Ben as a teacher! I predict that this episode will show up again and again on people’s “Best of Lost” lists.
Even after seeing “Dave”, I never imagined that Oahu had Cliffs of Insanity like what we saw tonight, but there they were. And I wonder if there’s a bonus for an actor who lets a little crab take a stroll across his scalp. (*shudder*) I’ll bet they let Terry O’Quinn’s stand-in do that scene. (“Robert Loggia, you’re needed on set!”)
Even some of tonight’s commercials were better than usual. Did you love the first of two Old Spice commercials? And this was the first time I saw Evangeline’s L’Oreal spot. Very nice. Also, during one break, I saw that Michael Emerson will be a guest on Jimmy Kimmel tonight. Should be good!
Wow. They really outdid themselves with this episode. Def one of my faves of the entire series. Plus, Locke's the man, so, what'd you expect?
It would seem that the mystery of the numbers directly ties in with our survivors. The show appears to be going along the lines of having the entire feud between Smokey and Jacob be the world's most ambitious game of backgammon ever.
4 - Locke
8 - Reyes
15 - Ford
16 - Jarrah
23 - Shephard
42 - Kwon
As shown in the show, all of these people were touched by Jacob. However, it is significant that Kate's name of "Austen" is missing. She too was touched by Jacob in "The Incident", and her name does not appear on the cave walls.
Jack is #23. His plane seat on Oceanic 815 is seat 23B. Is this significant? Possibly, but Ana-Lucia was seat 42F, and either Jin or Sun (or both) are #42. Both Jin & Sun were touched by Jacob.
Smokey tells Sawyer that he has 3 options to choose from in becoming Jacob's successor.
Option 1: Do nothing.
Option 2: Protect the Island (from supposedly nothing)
Option 3: Leave the Island (with Smokey)
Now, the names that are crossed out are not familiar to me within the show's canon, and they are not the surnames of other characters we've seen. However, if Locke's name is now crossed out, it would mean that Locke "lost" this game, and failed at being the next Jacob.
In "The Incident", Bram says that Frank Lapidus is a candidate. What qualities make a candidate? How is Sawyer a candidate? Is Smokey lying to Sawyer by telling him that he is a candidate?
This episode lent some weight to the theory that the show will end with Locke being the man in black on the beach and Jack will be the man in white on the beach. If it's true that candidates fulfill each role until they are replaced, then this could turn out to be the show's ending...but it's still just a rumor...and an intriguing one at that (since the writers said that the series does not have a happy ending).
Illana said that Smokey is now stuck in the form of Locke. Why? If he did take the form of other dead people on the island, why is he now stuck in the body of Locke?
In the alternate timeline, Locke did indeed lie about his walkabout to Boone. However, he ended up living with Helen. Once again, this timeline shows Locke as a pessimist by having him doubt Jack's surgical abilities. Also, the timeline does have some similarities to the one we know:
- Rose has terminal cancer
- Locke is refused the walkabout
- Hurley is Randy Nations' boss and owns the box factory Locke works at
Locke is trying to get a job in construction for Hurley in this episode. Michael Dawson worked in construction, so will we see Michael in the future?
It was great to see Ben as a teacher in this timeline. He is such an intelligent person that the job really fits him well. Just awesome! This would also mean that Horace Goodspeed never met Roger Linus, therefore Ben never went to the Island.
How harsh is it that Locke has to teach a class on the human reproductive system? He's paralyzed, he can't use his penis. That's a low blow (pun intended).
"Of Mice and Men" really is a kickass book. It's a shame that Sawyer spoiled the tragic ending for all those who haven't read it yet, but you should (it's really short)! Ben quoted "Of Mice and Men" to Sawyer in the season 3 episode, "Every Man for Himself".
Who is the child that Smokey and Sawyer saw? Is it a young Jacob? Is it a young Smokey? Is Sawyer a true candidate because he could see him when Richard could not? What does this say about Richard's importance? Was he truly a servant that was kept in the dark? If so, then he did the exact same thing to Ben.
How did they do the shot of Sawyer falling with the ladder? They either used green-screen, GREAT CGI, or an incredibly brave stuntman. Damn.
Amazing episode!!
I was thinking about Jack and how different he is back on the Island. He just came back from "the real world" and was an out of control alcoholic there.
I screamed when I saw Ben in the staff room - loved it!
Is the sideways world the world that would have been if Jacob hadn't touched each of them and "manipulated them to the Island"? I am so interested to see where else we go in sideways world.
I liked the reflection of Flocke as Smokey in James' window.
Thanks for posting so fast Nikki!! Can't wait for next week!
According to Nikki's list, way more questions than answers!
Most of what I had to say about this episode, Nikki has already covered. But there are a couple of things...
I'm not yet believing everything that not-Locke says. He may end up being the good guy, but I don't buy it yet.
The black and white stones on the scale, Jacob and not-Locke's inside joke, reminded me of the scene in The Ten Commandments where Moses and Ramses are arguing their points with weights on a scale.
What improves any Lost episode? A great Frank one-liner.
How obsessed is my family with Lost? When the episode was over, we went back and paused the screen several times to read the names on the rock.
I found a Mattingly, but we also found Troup (Gary, the guy sucked into the turbine) and Littleton (Claire) and we saw one that might have been Dawson (Michael).
Thanks for the excellent (and fast) recap once again, Nik.
Loved this episode - it was especially nice after last week's less than fabulous episode. My theory on the identity of the child Flocke/NotLocke chases: Aaron, Claire's son. We all think he's incredibly important to the island. What if he is the new Jacob? Of course, this means he's not really "there" but only appearing as a vision to Locke (and Sawyer).
Several incidents during this episode and previous seasons have also lead me to believe that Jacob and M.I.B. represent the idea of yin and yang. You can't have one without the other. A balance to the force, perhaps (a la Obi Wan and Vader)?
The appearance of both Ethan and Ben in the AlternaWorld suggests we'll see each major Island player in the sideways timeline. However, of the 815 passengers we've only seen folks from the original beach crash - no Tailies. (I'm assuming Bernard doesn't count as he was only in the tail section to go to the bathroom.) When will Ana Lucia, Libby, and Mr. Eko make appearances?
Loved seeing the cave. Yes, it raised more questions but at least we know why lists have been so darn important in this show!
I love all Locke centric episodes, and re-watched 1.04 Walkabout and 2.03 Orientation to prepare, not that I could forget anything about his background or history on the island.
Richard - I felt so bad for Richard, all beat up and scared. I want to love him back to health. Ahem. He seems surprised that Smokey can take on other people’s identities – he asks him why he looks like John Locke. The answer makes sense (Locke had to be the leader, blah, blah), but Richard’s question didn’t sound like why John Locke, rather, why do you look like someone. Did Smokey put Richard in a bag so he could roam, Smokey-cam style? How does he carry that backpack?
Sawyer - I love that Sawyer doesn't even blink that Locke is dead, and recognizes right away that it isn't Locke. I also like that he brought up of Mice and Men, as the scene was reminiscent of when Ben brought him up to the cliff to look out. Was it the same cliff?
The Numbers - Finally, and I knew it!! The numbers correspond to the survivors, revealed in this order (any significance?) 23 – Shepard, 8 – Reyes, 16 – Jarrah, 42 - Kwan (Jin or Sun, or Ji Yeon?) and 4 - Locke. But the biggest questions – why, when Kate was touched by Jacob, was she not a candidate?? Was Lapedis on the list? Didn’t see his name. In a tweet from Carlton Cuse, he advises watching tonight's episode as "a number of things are illuminated".
Free will v. Destiny - According to MiB, Jacob manipulated all of them, and by inference he is about destiny. But MiB was also pretty manipulative as well. I cannot wait to find out what the real war is, and why MiB doesn’t think the island is worth protecting. Protecting from what? How?
Benjamin Linus!!! - In the alt-timeline, all self righteous about the coffee? Can he really be relegated to being a HS European history teacher? He’s got to be more interesting than that. And just how did he get off the island, if he wasn’t on the sub????
On the island, He did give Locke a good eulogy, I suppose he was the most qualified. Interesting that he felt Locke’s belief was his strength, when what it got him was murdered and identity stolen. And Ben admitted to murdering Locke (but not Jacob) in front of Ilana, Sun and Lapedis. I see glimmers of the Ben we know and love. Sadness to see Locke buried. Terry O’Quinn I guess only has to play two characters now.
Locke’s life, though better, seems to still suck ass. So glad to see Helen. Sad to see him tear up Jack’s card, but it was fun to see his connection to Hurley, Rose, and Ben. AND the psychic that Hurley’s dad used to try to get him to let go of the curse. Why is he lying to Helen about the walkabout/conference. What are the odds of running into a spinal surgeon. He should be happy about potential destiny, but isn't.
the Kid - OK, maybe this is Aaron, but he is too old and had no way to get to the island. Maybe this is the kid from the plane with Cindy the stewardess, but she probably wouldn’t let him out of the temple. My bet – Jacob, in some other form. Did Locke forget seeing him? Why did Sawyer see him, but Richard didn’t? Does Richard really not know why they need to protect the island? What happens when/if MiB gets all the candidates killed?
MiB - What about FLocke yelling don't tell me what I can't do? That is a very Locke thing to say, not a Smoke Monster/Man in Black type of thing to say. Did he channel the real Locke from somewhen else? Notice he was on the ground, i.e. not able to use his legs, when he said that. Is FLocke getting weaker/stuck because JL’s body is buried?
black and white - The whole inside joke, throwing away the white stone, was funny. Did you notice the black rock outweighed the white rock just by a little bit?
I think that Kate wasn't on the cave wall because only males can be candidates. This would make sense that only one Kwon was written on the wall, that being Jin. Just a thought but it would explain why only Kate's name isn't on the all.
- Smokey-vision was awesome…I don’t know about anyone else, but I got a big thrill out of it, especially when he turned into UnLocke at the end and picked up the blade.
- The conflict with Jacob clearly isn’t over, so it’s understandable why MIB wants recruits. I believe he’s actually good….and Jacob? Not so much.
- I believe Richard is misinformed about MIB wanting everyone dead; it’s one of the many lies Jacob has told Richard over the years.
- Reasons I think MIB is good: He could have just let Sawyer drop off the cliff if he wanted him dead; Smokey judges people, and if you don’t show redemption, he kills you (See: Eko). But, if you do, he lets you live (See: Ben). More and more signs are pointing to Jacob being not good. And nothing tonight disproved that notion.
- Who is the boy that MIB saw? Jacob? Aaron? Or someone else? And how could someone ELSE appear to MIB? Isn’t that his own modus operandi?
- If it was Smokey appearing in a different form to himself, might it be a sign that things are coming apart for him? The blast door map mentioned Cerberus (3-headed dog of Greek mythology), which most of us assume to mean Smokey…what if the boy was one of Smokey’s “heads”?
- Why is MIB trapped on the island? For what purpose? He was once a man? What happened to him to make him something other than a man; a monster? Did it happen to two other people? Hence “Cerberus”. Might Jacob be part of “Cerberus”/Smokey? If this theory is even close to being right…who might be the third “head” of Cerberus?
- I’m sure people noticed that sideways Locke’s alarm clock was the sound of the hatch timer counting down to zero.
- Okay, so if UnLocke was telling the truth about the names on the cave ceiling being the names of candidates to replace Jacob as island protector….Jacob knew he was going to die someday. He’s (Jacob, I mean) the one that manipulates and destroys people’s lives…it’s his only desire. He wants to see people trapped on the island….like he trapped MIB on the island. I think that whoever or whatever Jacob is, he trapped MIB there, and did something that made him more than a man…made him into the smoke monster, and unable to leave. As long as people believe in Jacob, MIB will never be free, even with Jacob dead. He needs to shatter people’s belief in Jacob, and if they won’t waver from that belief, they will die.
- Jacob spouts free will, but is actually manipulating people, and goes around as a being of white. Sounds like Satan to me. Maybe not literally, but Jacob is analogous to Satan, IMO.
- If people like Ben and Ethan are alive in this sideways-reality, there would have to be some mass exodus of the island before whatever sunk it, whether it be the bomb or something else.
- 4 Locke, 8 Reyes, 15 Ford, 16 Jarrah, 23 Shephard, 42 Kwon….why no Austen? Jacob touched her, too. If there’s something to the numerical order…of these, Locke would be the first candidate. Also, Littleton was 313…and since her name was crossed out, does that mean she really is dead, if UnLocke crossed out Locke’s name?
- This episode was the best so far of the season, even better than the premiere IMO, and certainly better than last weeks’ episode (which was okay, but not great). It was so chock full of stuff that I’m still in the process of processing, and in the immortal words of the late, great (and soon to cross over from sideways-reality into island-reality, perhaps?) John Locke, “We’re gonna have to watch that again.”
@Brandon - I was thinking about how Ben would have gotten off the island, but didn't think perhaps he was never there. Must think
Also, just because Locke is paralyzed doesn't mean he cannot use his penis, as we learned in Glee!
I've commented before here, and I always read the blog... it's just most of the time everyone says what I think before I get to post it. Or, I have nothing to add... But I will try to comment more frequently... Anywho... This was such a great episode!
One thing I have to say is... why is Ben alive in the AU? At the time of the explosion, he was in a tent with the Others, having recently been healed. He wouldn't have been put on the sub, like Ethan (or presumably Miles and Charlotte). Shouldn't he be dead in this reality? (Not like I'm complaining, any scene w/ Ben is amazing...) But I was just wondering.. It seems a bit odd, that's all...
Also, if AU Locke is in a wheelchair for some other reason than his jerk father, does that mean his father isn't a con man in this reality? And does that mean that Sawyer's whole backstory has changed as well? Gah! So many MORE questions!
Brandon: "Option 2: Protect the Island (from supposedly nothing)"
reminds me of the choice to push the button... Everyone who seems to have information is secretive, so the candidates will have to choose if they are willing to protect the island based on faith, not an informed decision.
I was very surprised that Richard didn't know what the MIB was talking about- I thought he knew everything!
Exactly which Shephard is written on the rock? Jack, Christian or Aaron?
hmmm....
P.S. Forgot a ton of other questions I wanted to raise. Sheesh. Look how excited I get!
1. If Flocke/NotLocke needs to leave the Island together with Sawyer does that mean he can't leave the island without assistance? Does he need to find another loophole like he did with John Locke's body?
2. Did Jacob manipulate the Black Rock to the Island as well? Was it solely to recruit Richard?
3. Why did Flocke/NotLocke choose to use the ladder system to enter Jacob's cave? Why not just arrive via cool Smoke Monster effect? Because he needed Sawyer to come along and couldn't very well show him the way via smoke signals?
4. How the heck does Ilana know so much about the Island? How does she know M.I.B. is stuck in Locke's body? Why does she know to take the ashes representing Jacob's burned body? And why does Ben lie about who killed Jacob?
That's all for now - I think!
Very intriguing episode!
@Nikki: Wow, you already have the cover to FL: Season 6 all planned out? That was a fast one!
So, about the episode: first of all, did anybody else notice that sawyer appeared to have SOILED his pants when Un-Locke visited him in the Dharma house? Eeeww!!
the black & white stones were very cool, and MIB removing the white stone is a funny little way of showing that darkness now has a balance of pwoer on the island. Whether or not Jacob is good or evil remains to be seen, but does anyone think that maybe he was recruiting candidates for some other reason? Perhaps MIb only THINKS the candidate is gonna take Jacob's place, but maybe it's something more than that.
My guess: Jacob was secretly planning on killing MIB, too, but he was barred from doing so himself because of the rules. so all those names on the walls were candidates for who he could use to do the deed. Basically, how MIB used ben to kill jacob, Jacob plans to use the Candidate to kill MIB...
Who knows? LOL
RE: Nikki & Paulo. I really hope we see them this season (please don't hate me, Nikki Stafford. LOL). I just think it'd be fun to see everyone in the sideways universe. And besides, it'll juts give us another excuse to kill them off in a fun & nasty way! Mwa ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Bring on Ana Lucia, Eko & Libby!!!
@ Saza: Ooooooohhh, good call! there's more than one Shephard, too! This may end up being a neat little twist somewhere down the line!
How perfect is it that Ben is the REALLY annoying, petty, anal guy in the teacher’s lounge?
It was sublime! It couldn't have been better. I fell in love with it.
Kate also wasn't on "the other's list" before - she was too damaged. Is that right?
Now THAT'S more like it!
A few quick thoughts.
Alt Locke is both a better man and a sadder man that Locke. He has Helen, he seems less angry, he possibly has a better relationship with Cooper (which probably accounts for the first two) and he seems more at peace with his disability.
At the same time, he's devoid of the faith that so defined him in the other reality. Would Locke sacrifice his faith for a better life? Something tells me Locke would say no, but perhaps that's the wrong answer.
Kate not being on the "list" suggests, instead of being less important, that perhaps she's more important to things that we've been led to believe. Perhaps she's a wild card for Jacob, someone's he touched but that Flocke is unaware of.
I wonder when Jacob scratched those names on the wall of the cave? We know that when 815 crashed, Ben tasked the Others with getting the names of the survivors, presumably to pass along to Jacob. Did Jacob then compare those names to the ones in this cave, or did write those names in the cave and begin crossing them off.
I assumed the young kid was Jacob. Aaron is an interesting alternative. I like it. Also, the notion that "Shepard" could refer to Christian or Aaron and not just Jack.
@Duke: Is the sideways world the world that would have been if Jacob hadn't touched each of them and "manipulated them to the Island"? I am so interested to see where else we go in sideways world.
I think that's what we're seeing. Without the island, the Others grow up differently (Ethan) and the candidates lives take different (but still similar) turns without Jacob's influence.
@Joan I fell in love with it.
Me too! It truly was sublime; just an absolute blend of character and sideways twist.
Kate also wasn't on "the other's list" before - she was too damaged. Is that right?
I think you're right; but weren't Sawyer and Jack also "damaged"? Or at least, didn't Pickett, the first time the lists were mentioned, say Jack wasn't on it (I'll have to go back and check. Yeesh, it isn't like we didn't just finish a re-watch :) )?
Maybe that means Shephard isn't Jack?
Holy frackin' shoot!
I think this makes up for any perceived apathy or frustration over last week's episode. As a matter of fact, they could have run nothing but deleted scenes of Nikki & Paulo getting tattoos in Thailand last week and this still would have redeemed my faith in the show.
The Numbers were finally explained:
4. 8. 15. 16. 23. 42.
Locke. Reyes. Ford. Jarrah. Shephard. Kwon.
Does that, by the way, make Kate 108? 'Cause we definitely saw Jacob touch her in last season's finale. Esau may not have felt that it was in his interest to point her name out to James — or he somehow might not have known it was there.
I did wonder if maybe she was a hidden sibling of one of the others, Leia-style. Her being a Kwon or Jarrah is unlikely, and having her be a Ford or Shephard would be beyond icky. But that in turn got me thinking if, her legal name aside, Claire qualified as a Shephard (as Christian's daughter) and whether she was now out of the running or, conversely, already fulfilling part of her role.
You could really get your brains in a twist wondering if Aaron's biological father was some long-lost sibling of Sawyer or Locke's, or even if Ji Yeon was the Kwon in question — the plane having been brought down on the Island so that Sun and Jin could conceive a child — although that feels like a stretch. When "Jacob's list" was first mentioned in the Others' camp, one of them said that "Shephard" was not on it, but at this point we have no idea what that means.
And maybe saying the Numbers were "explained" isn't exactly true, since we don't know how the six corresponding to these specific castaways were chosen for the Swan's hatch door or the computer in that same station, let alone broadcast in the South Pacific at such a point that they'd find their way to Hurley and become his winning lottery numbers or, even more freakily, the mileage on his restored Camaro. But the simple fact that they're etched in a cave on the Island and tied to Jacob is enough for me to regard them as having some inherent power, particularly since this group of people out of all those who were called to the Island seems to be special.
The first act of the episode just rocked:
I loved seeing John laugh at the sprinklers starting up. And seeing Helen walk out the door, after which the surprises just kept on coming.... The wedding? John's Dad?!? The, um, conference? (I'm glad that last part got worked out, as secrets and lies really wear thin this late in the game.)
Our Smokey's-eye-view rumble through the jungle got played back several times just for the cool factor. It was only on the third go-'round that I noticed you could see a billowing grey cloud reflected in the window of Sawyer's house as Smokey reared up to it. How is that robot-cricket, roller-coaster-chain chika-chika sound so oddly infectious*? *No pun intended regarding last week's episode. I have not been "claimed".
You can't really call the revelations of circumstances in the alternate timeline surprises, since we know things are different there, but there were surprises galore on the Island in the present day of the established universe. Even before the title card appeared, we learned that Richard can get beat up, get thirsty, and even get scared. I don't like seeing him that way, but the chiseling away at his mystique hopefully means that we're close to finding out more about him, so I'll take it.
continued...
The great lines were plentiful:
Helen: "I mean, Who knows? Maybe it's destiny."
Esau: "Richard, I'm sorry I hit you in the throat and dragged you off the beach, but I had to do something." Funny.
James: "Well, I guess I'd better put some pants on."
Esau: "Don't tell me what I can't do!" Not funny ha-ha, but funny ironic, and the first time that I've felt a twinge of sympathy for the Man in Black, who despite arguments from friends I still highly doubt is the good guy.
Esau: "No, James. That... is why you're all here." Awesome!
Frank: "This is the weirdest damn funeral I've ever been to." Funny. Grade-A, laugh-out-loud funny.
Esau: "Jacob had a thing for numbers." Funny, and tied as the best dry, sly wink to the fans with his tossing the white rock into the ocean and saying, "Inside joke."
The final act of the episode rocked too:
After learning that Richard wasn't necessarily as unflappable or as invulnerable as he seemed, we learned as he chased the blond-haired boy that neither is Esau. He can feel surprised, wonder if what he's seeing is really there, and even run out of breath in this body.
Was that Young Jacob? Did he rise like a phoenix from the ashes and get to 10 years old already? Is this the Genesis planet or something (Star Trek Genesis, not Phil Collins or Peter Gabriel Genesis), where dead bodies are reconstituted? Did the boy just slip away before Richard could see him, or could Richard flat-out not see him yet James somehow could?
I suspect it behooves the producers to bring together the characters on the Island as quickly as possible, because flipping back and forth week-to-week between different storylines is something that roused viewer discontent in the past. And while I'm very interested in the Temple, this week's focus was much more edge-of-the-seat intriguing than last week's. Whether that has to do with the script and direction or with the fact that direct glimpses into the Jacob & Esau mythology trump anything else I've not figured out yet, but even before we got tonight's bountiful bonanza folks seemed concerned that for all their potential the Temple scenes would quickly devolve into this season's version of the interminable layover at the Hydra station.
One thing I'll say for Esau, or Smokey Man, or Lockalike is that he did give us some answers, even if their context or backstory haven't yet been fleshed out. He was annoyingly cryptic to both Richard and James early on, which was worrisome, but darned if the torch he struck in that cave wasn't a metaphor for some welcome enlightenment.
My verification word is taxes Maybe it's Blogger's way of telling us Lost fans that they're the only sure thing left.
These days MiB is stuck in Locke's corpse, which was on the Ajira plane that crashed in 2008. Back in 2004, another corpse was in another plane that crashed on the island : Christian's. So I think MiB used to be stuck in Christian's body and appeared as such to candidates he was trying to recruit : Jack, Locke, Claire... I guess this is one of the grand game's rules : MiB (and Jacob too?) gets to inhabit the body of someone who arrives dead on the island. And is stuck in it until the next corpse arrives. The only way MiB can get out is under the Smokey form. I suppose Jacob follows the same rules and has a special appearance whenever he gets out of his borrowed body. Apparitions such as a black horse, a Yemi? Could the ghosts be Jacob's manifestations?
So the smoke monster/Locke seems to have the answers. Really! Yeah, he shows Sawyer a cave with names Jacob put up on the wall. Many of the names are crossed out--it ends the same, but there is always progress. So if Jacob finds a substitute, will MiB be allowed to go home? Or will the substitute become the new jailer of MiB? Sure seems that way. And of all of the Oceanic survivors, Sawyer seems the most likely to succeed--he knows the inside of a jail (off island), and he was the sherrif of Dharmaville, and he outconned Locke and Jack to get the guns. He can also see through "Locke"'s appearance and see its not him--probably a very good ability to have if your going to guard the monster.
@Brandon: I think MiB is stuck in Locke's form because Locke was a candidate. The other people he imitated weren't. And we get the 3 options, just like when Rousseau told Jack that when the Others come there are 3 things you can do--run, hide, or die. If Jacob is looking for a substitute, it seems likely that elimination form consideration means a candidate dies. Sadly, if we end with say Jack or Sawyer as the candidate, then all the others will die.
Now for a bomb. I am begining to HATE the side-world. Yes, you heard that right. HATE!! Okay, there are some amusing moments, like Ben bitchin about the coffee--so very Office. But come on, all this is really doing is providing lulls in the main action and detracting from answering questions. In Season 1, the flashbacks added to our understanding of the motivations behind the characters. But I get nothing but some mild amusement from the side-world. I keep thinking, everytime I hear the jet engine, "and how many more minutes will be wasted not answering questions, while we travel to Oz?" Okay, that rant is over, and will somebody please put the coffee filter into the trash after they've made a pot.
So where does the little blond haired boy come from, and why does he make references to the rules? I think the boy is a manifestation of the island. We have to realize the island really is a player in this game, in fact it is more than that as it is the game board. That Sawyer can see the child is similar to Hurley seeing dead people. Either Sawyer has the same powers as Hurley, and the child is dead. Or Hurley doesn't really see dead people (Miles corrected Hurley on the powers of communicating with the dead). Instead, the island manifests dead people's consciousness, or appearance wherever it wants and for whomever it wants to see them. This goes back to Casares' "The Invention of Morel" where the living people's souls have been recorded in the island-machine. As our LOST island is a big electromagnet, it can act like a giant tape recorded, only it also records people's souls as well as their image--think Charlie, I am dead, but I'm also here. Being in tune with the island means being able to see these manifestations, unlike Richard who can't.
Hopefully, next week we'll really get some answers. And I'll know the side-world really is the Magical World of Oz when I see Paulo and Nikki, happy and in love and rich and Expose will be offering Nikki new guest appearances.
Am I the only one that really disliked the "inside joke" line? It destroyed credibilty. Mock Locke might as well have looked straight into the camera, winked and said, "Hey, LOST fans, this one's for you! Get it? Heh, heh, heh."
Eccch. Just didn't like that. Would have been much better if he'd thrown the rock and then just raised his eyebrows or shrugged mysteriously when James asked him what that was about.
Anyway, that aside, I *adored* that Alternate Reality Locke is back with Helen (she's alive! Whoo-hoo! Er...wait - does that mean she's gonna die of an embolism in a few years?). And love the other characters just popping up all over the place. Rose - awesome! Sad that she still has cancer, but so good to see her. Disappointed that Locke didn't call Jack for a consult. Overjoyed that Ben exists in the Alternate Reality. (And seems non-murderous to boot.) Thrilled that Hugo is still sweet and that his good fortune (and literal fortune) haven't gone to his head. Pleased that Locke's penis probably still works. (Grateful that this issue wasn't actually addressed in the show.)
All in all, a wonderful episode (except for the aforementioned "inside joke" line) and I can't wait to watch it again!
Blam I agree with you about the writers bringing everyone together soon. When you think about it, they haven't been together in a big group since the end of season 3 right before Des & Charlie went to the Looking Glass and most of the rest went to the tower.
Fred I'm with you about the alternate timeline. While interesting at times, it is taking away a lot of time from the story that interests me, namely what is happening to the characters that I've been watching for 5 seasons.
Oh. My. Werd. I absolutely adored this episode as well and, as usual, most of my highlights were also Nikki's.
I was SO happy to see Helen! My sister and I squeed our way through that whole first scene with her, giddy with happiness. They are just too adorable together.
I too got a weird kick out of Richard in this episode. It was so bizarre seeing him all freaked out and crazed (side note - watching S3 of Scrubs after Lost and Nestor Carbonell showed up in a guest appearance. Got such a kick out of that, too :)
Ben, Ben, Ben. That was the BEST eulogy in the world and I LOVED him as the teacher. Hi-larious. I'm just glad he's not dead in alterna-world.
eww, eww, eww about that bug thing on Dead Locke. ::shudder::
@Marebabe: Ha! Cliffs of Insanity! Glad I wasn't the only one thinking that :)
And I also saw those Old Spice commercials - ridiculous. :)
I wonder... if Helen is alive and happily with Locke in AlternaWorld, then maybe Nadia is alive and we'll get to see that reunion again for the first time :)
I STILL do not trust Lockalike (thanks Blam). I get such a creeped out feeling about him. I just do not see him as the "good" guy. And I really do not trust anything he says. How do we know that there isn't something that does need to be protected? Need more answers!
It keeps coming back to the ash and every time I think "PHOENIX!"
Lockalike chasing the boy through the woods was very reminiscent of Jack chasing his father in "White Rabbit"
When Lockalike returned to Sawyer, why did he say, "What boy?" Was he just being evasive? Or could he be suffering from some sort of memory loss or ... I can't find the right way to say what I mean. It just seemed really odd to me.
Why didn't they bury Bram and the other Shadow Seekers? (Incidentally, during the show I asked this question aloud, but said, "Why didn't they bury Blam" and my sister shot me an amused look that said, "Because he's not dead, silly.")
I thought it was funny that they had to bring the body to the graveyard rather than just burying it near the foot. Wasn't that a REALLY long hike? Seems like a major waste of time and energy. And I was waiting for N&P's hands to shoot up out of the ground as their zombie selves came forth.
Okay, not really.
It concerns me that Kate is not one of the numbers and I hope that gets explained since Jacob most definitely touched her. Also, Ilana said Lapidus was a candidate and he is not one of the numbers either. Hmmm...
Lots of stuff to think about :)
Great recap as always, Nik! My apologies for throwing up my thoughts before reading yours again... I just couldn't wait to get 'em out.
if I were doing a video podcast, I’d be squeaking right now
So you're no longer in denial over that? 8^)
When he looked at Helen and said there’s no such thing as miracles, I actually moaned out loud, “Oh, say it ain’t so, Locke!”
But maybe this John Locke doesn't need for there to be miracles.
Not-Locke’s amazing soliloquy: “I know what it’s like to feel joy, to feel pain, anger, fear, to experience betrayal. I know what it’s like to lose someone you love.
I totally forgot to mention this in my first pass, and it actually both affected me and astonished me, a bit, to more fully realize that Esau was once at least in some way human.
When Locke is sitting in his cubicle, you can see a photograph of him and Cooper hunting on the day that Cooper told him about needing a new kidney.
Huh. And here I thought I was watching more closely than usual...
Maybe James was stumbling out to keep repeating the song.
Clearly you're too young to remember that turntables did have "repeat" features (although, granted, the same song is a coincidence... or destiny).
Seriously, I screamed louder at that sight than I did when Sawyer's ladder broke.
Just how bad could that scene have been with tacky music, by the way? During the wide shot of him falling I had a brief flashback to some random '70s or '80s action drama, but the scene salvaged itself.
And someone should have proofread that business card: the last number is missing the dash in the number. Sloppy!
There was also a weird long space between the "St." and "Sebastian" (but not "Sebastian" and "Hospital"), like maybe it used to read "Saint Sebastian" and it was determined that that would be wrong — not that you'd really expect the fix to leave a weird long space unless it was touched up by hand.
[Esau/Not-Locke] was a man pre-1930s.
What? Is this a reference to the remark that Of Mice and Men was after his time? 'Cause the way he said that I took it to mean it was way after his time, so you must mean "pre-1930s" the way Sigourney Weaver's character in Ghostbusters slept "above the covers".
We’ve seen the Man in Black in the 19th century,
I still don't get why people assume that ship was The Black Rock, unless it was revealed extracurricularly by Damon & Carlton. Not that, um, you aren't lovely and intelligent. This is just a pet peeve of mine.
Why is Not-Locke stuck this way, as Ilana says?
Actually, I thought she meant that Dead Locke was stuck that way.
VW: Feambace — Dick Tracy villain Beamface's very weak alias.
Great recap, Nikki -- and, boy, are you fast, too!
@Studiorose: I thought the same thing you did when I saw Helen--oh, my god, she's going to die in a few years. But at least Locke will have had some time with her. Just as Rose commented on being content to live what life she has. By the by, that is very Dogen Zen like.
Locke switching from hunter green to Helen's blue choice indicates he has given up the idea of being a hunter. Yes he still wants to do impossible things, but he's less driven.
When the sprinklers went on, it reminded me of Sayid on the golf course, also with a man down, but dead.
MiB asking Sawyer to follow him to find the answers is like Jesus passing the fishermen and telling them to follow him and be his disciples. Is Sawyer going to be MiB's disciple? Think so.
So if they have good karma in side-world, is it because they had such lousy karma in the island world?
Locke's inability to walk may have been caused by Cooper, but in a hunting accident--Cooper may have accidentally shot Locke in the back, but saved him.
Ricghard's appearance before Sawyer resembled his appearance before young Ben in the woods. Was Richard looking out for young Ben, making sure MiB as smokie did not recruit young Ben or kill him?
Kate may be a candidate. In that case there is a number we don't know about. Consider 4 is (2x2), 8 is (2x2x2), 16 is (2x2x2x2) os a possible hidden number is 32 (2^5). The other known numbers are multiples of primes and a prime (23)--so Kate could be based on some prime number.
Next week, will Walt appear in Locke's class? And will he call him, Mr. Locke?
Not to go through everything, as per usual, most of you have already gotten to most of my thoughts, but a couple of points from my side:
- I think "Shephard" is referring to Jack, because doesn't Sawyer ask "Jack Shephard" and MIB either says nothing or affirms it. Of course, he could be trying to deceive for some reason...
- the one thing that blew my mind a little bit was the thing about Locke's Dad attending their quickie wedding. While this is a different timeline, I would think only events subsequent to the "incident" would be adjusted. Since Locke's dad was a scumbag already by 1977, I assume he would be one in this universe as well.
Eddie Vokolek
I'll get my own blog up tomorrow, but a few thoughts for tonight:
- I loved that the title of the episode was applicable in so many ways. Of course we're watching a substitute Locke tromp around the Island. Richard seemed to be Flocke's first choice for "moving buddy" but Sawyer was his substitute. Jacob's was out to find a replacement of his own. And, ultimately, AltLocke became a substitute teacher. Layers!
- I'm with those that think that mini-Jacob was an Island vision. As of late, I've been tending to doubt the Island's powers and attribute them more to the MIB and Jacob, but my jaw absolutely dropped when Flocke did that double-take at the kid. I think that was the biggest shocker of the night to me: THE MONSTER SEES THINGS!? And here I'd been comfortable in my conclusion that he was most frequently the thing that other people saw...
Another of my viewing party postulated that mini-Jacob was actual Jacob, still partly alive somehow, but currently I don't buy it. If that were the case, I have a feeling Flocke would have reacted very differently... and wouldn't have continued refering to Jacob as deceased throughout the episode. He knows what's what on this Island, and he knows he's being chastised for breaking Rules that he and Jacob must follow but did not create. "Just an Island" my left foot!
- On Candidates: Shepard was never an actual part of Aaron's name so I'm not a fan of the thought that "Shepard" on the wall might have been referring to him. He was a Littleton all along. I haven't had a chance to go back yet, but names I thought I saw crossed out on the walls were "Amelia" and "Goodspeed." The former is probably in error since Jacob appears to have used all surnames. But I'm almost postive about the latter. I just can see Jacob groaning and crossing poor Horace off the list after that middle-of-the-night drunken dynamite-tossing-at-trees binge...
@sagaciouspenguin: THE MONSTER SEES THINGS!?
That was my reaction too. It just blew my mind that Smokey/MiB/Flocke would actually see something like that.
Another weird thing about Locke's flashsideways - He met Helen during anger management classes after his kidney was stolen. If Cooper still stole his kidney, it seems odd that they would be on good enough terms to invite him to the wedding, but how else did he meet Helen?
Is this proof that my bizarre hunch of Cooper not actually being his father is true?! (jk)
@Fred: I liked your analysis of the numbers and the squares of 2 - especially since there are so many references to 2s and pairs and the dual sided thing that is so pervasive.
VW: Carviria - The new and improved Carving tool! Never foul up that turkey again! (pun intended)
@Blam: there is a possibility MiB is not bad, but is what Rousseau called him, a security system. He may have been a mortal human, like Richard, who came to the island. It was Jacob who made him into the smoke monster to guard the island, just as Jacob made Richard. Now, MiB/smokie is tired and want off the island. He doesn't see protecting it as something he should do for eternity. He is a gaurdian like Cerberus, guarding the mouth of hell/hades where the dead remain. On the island, the dead are trapped in the electromagnetic anomally underlying the island. Smokie protects the island by preventing anyone from interfering with it, like Dharma. I get the impression it was MiB that convinvced Widmore to get rid of Dharma, not Ben.
@SonshineMusic: Cooper played on Locke's anger to manipulate him. In the side-world, Locke may have had anger issues, and during anger-management met Helen. But I think we are going to learn, Cooper was more supportive of his son. That's why I think Locke was injured in a hunting accident (the other possibility is Cooper really needed a kidney, and Locke gave him one, but the surgery was botched, leading to Locke's paralysis).It is the injury that led to Locke being in anger-management.
Marebabe: “Robert Loggia, you’re needed on set!”
Ha! That just about made my day.
The only really thing that I took from this episode was that the island events RIGHT NOW are actually the "could have beens" and the regular timeline IS the real timeline. No island no nothing at all.
My mind is tired after that episode.
I am in the camp that believes the boy who reminds the Nemesis of "The Rules" is Aaron. How? Who knows? How did Taller Ghost Walt get on the Island?
As for "The Candidate" business. I think Frank can officially be rules out. Last season, Ilana told Bram to keep Frank alive because he could be a candidate. Now we know who the candidates are, meaning Frank's off the hook.
I think the Nemesis is lying to Sawyer, just not in totality. He wants to leave the Island for a very specific reason. And when he says Jacob was protecting the Island from "nothing," I think that "nothing" is the Nemesis. A candidate will need to rise as leader to ensure the Nemesis stays trapped for the safety of...mankind?
Who will the candidate be? My money is on Jack. Locke would have been the prime choice, but now that he's dead, that's going to be complicated. This leaves Jack, who is slowly becoming the man of faith John Locke was once upon a time.
One of the best "LOST" episodes ever! No doubt! Great post, Nikki.
JS: Did he channel the real Locke from somewhen else? Notice he was on the ground, i.e. not able to use his legs, when he said that. Is FLocke getting weaker/stuck because JL’s body is buried?
Wow. Nice.
Season 6 cover...can't wait.
I'm wondering about Ilana as when we were introduced to her it looked like Jacob knew her well.
Sawyer is a con-man...wonder if he can pull off a long con on the MIB?
Looks like Hurley gets to help people in the sideway reality. He seems to be a happy man.
Ben...goes from apologizing for murdering Locke to being that fussy person who has a filter fixation. I wonder if they can be friends?
I haven't read any comments yet, I want to get this down while it's fresh in my mind.
This has been my favourite episode so far this season. Actually, my favourite episode for a while (including last season). Batkitty and I have been sitting here without putting anything else on the dvd player (we're addicted to watching TV and movies) discussing the episode and reading Nik's post out loud. So incredible. BK and I actually made notes this episode, and it's amazing how much they resemble Nik's post (except written in a shorthand decipherable by almost no-one except the two of us). So here's what we've noticed (apologies for repeating anyone's observations)...
Locke episodes are my favourite kind. He's been my favourite character since season one, and I loved seeing him back with Helen (I'm a BIG fan of Katey Sagal).
One of the most interesting answers (for me, anyway) was that the Alterverse has been different for a while, and not just from the takeoff of flight 815 (as evidenced by Helen still being around and Locke's perceived relationship with his dad).
LOL'd at Not-Locke's apology to Richard: "Sorry I punched you in the throat..."
Was it just me, but did anyone else notice the unsightly stain on the back of Sawyer's boxers? Let's hope it was just sweat, for smeg's sake....
When Sun said 'We need to bury him' I immediately thought of Amy and her dead-Dharma-guy-whose-name-I-can't-remember-now.
The (possibly) Kid Jacob. Why could Sawyer see him, and Richard couldn't? Was that a candidate specific thing? And for that matter, was it really Jacob? Batkitty and I rewound and watched this line several times, and we're pretty sure (possibly) Kid Jacob says 'We can't kill him'. So what does he mean by we? (Granted, you couldn't really hear the 'we' part of it, but we're certain his lips framed those words - it looks like he says 'we').
I loved that Rose was so candid with Locke. If there was anyone that was underused throughout the series, it was Rose.
When Not-Locke said "What I am is trapped' I thought 'Oh, awesome, way to string it out'.
Ben's eulogy will go down as one of the best moments in the six seasons of Lost. Loved it. Love Michael Emerson.
When the ladder fell, I uttered an expletive (quite succinctly, I might add), and was surprised at Not-Locke's efforts to save Sawyer. Batkitty then said 'Hey, he's got to save his only soldier', which was pretty apt, considering the end of the episode.
Alter-Ben was fantastic! And I don't know why, but I really loved Locke's look of 'Yay, I've found a friend!' at the end of that scene.
Oh yes, and by his 'miracles don't happen' comment, it appears Alterverse Locke and Alterverse Jack have traded places. One thinks miracles can't happen, and one thinks nothing's impossible.
OK, after all that, Batkitty and I went back after watching the episode and made very good use of the 'pause' button, and checked out all the numbers and names we could make out from the cave ceiling and walls. Here they all are, starting with the Losties we know, followed by any other numbers and the corresponding names we could make out. It's not definite (we didn't zoom in, or anything, so don't take this list as definitive - it's just what we saw).
4 - Locke
8 - Reyes
15 - Ford
16 - Jarrah
23 - Sheppard
42 - Kwon
Now the rest:
313 - Little (ton?)
317 - (couldn't tell)
11 - (couldn't tell)
222 - O'Toole
10 - Mattingly
291 - Domingo
20 - Roup
316 (?) - Grant
(?) - Lewis (Charlotte, maybe?)
Wow! Great episode, great write up Nikki, and great comments from everyone - this is so much fun!
@Blam: Lockalike - love it!
Loved the smokey-cam effect at the beginning of the episode. What a great way to see the island!
@Marebabe: "whoever it was at ABC that came up with the line, 'The time for questions is over' doesn't actually watch the show" -- You said it sister! How can they be bringing up all these new questions, when they are suppose to be answering them?
@Lesley C.: Your Yin and Yang idea got me thinking that if Jacob was truly forcing MIB to stay on the island it was because he needed a counterpart in order to exist. Maybe MIB thought that the only way he could leave was to get rid of Jacob. But it doesn't seem to have worked out that way.
@Nikki: I agree that seeing Locke happy and with Helen was really wonderful, but I really didn't like that he no longer had faith or hope -- I don't see why he couldn't be happy and yet still have his faith and belief.
@EamonnToGetLost: I really do not believe MIB and his characterizations of Jacob. I think most of what he said was just a way of manipulating Sawyer. The way he spoke about Jacob bringing people to the island for no good reason and that the island didn't need protecting because it was just an island, did not ring true to me. He wants something from Sawyer and this is his way of getting it. I don't know yet who is good and who is bad, but MIB just seems less then above board about things. It is the same way he manipulated Ben into killing Jacob.
Ben's eulogy was great. When he started to speak, I was afraid he would speak about Locke the way MIB did in the LA X episode, But he seemed to genuinely mean the things he said -- do you think he really was sorry he killed Locke?
@Fred & Susan: I agree that it seems like the sideways world takes too much time away from island world and getting the answers we all want, but I have to believe that this world is in
someway going to bring us back to island world and it will all be interconnected. I just don't believe that they would do all this story telling and have it not relate to anything important.
Maybe when Helen mentions his dad, it's an adoptive father. Maybe in this sideways world, he was adopted as a child!
INCRDIBLE EPISODE!!!!
One thing that always bothered me was in the incredible coincidence that Hurley won the lottery with the numbers and then his bad luck after that. I guess we can say they've explained it - Jacob was behind it to ulimately steer him onto 815.
Maybe MIB was behind the crazy stuff in his hotel room on the morning of the flight shown in Season 1 Finale trying to keep him off it? Did MIB have influence too?
Also, Jacob was the black horse freeing Kate from the Marshall in Season 2? Or was it MIB - which one of them appeared to her and Sawyer?
Maybe Kate didn't have her own number because she was to ahve been with or married Jack or Sawyer and was part of a "Couple Number" like Sun and Jin?
Incrdible!
-Tim Alan
Great episode and fantastic observations. While I was watching, two things in the same scene jumped out at me, which probably don't mean anything. When Locke was in the temp office and the "psychic" was asking what animal he thought he would be, there are posters on the wall. There are three of them and one word is VERY prominent : DREAM. I know that Darlton said it wasn't going to turn out to be a dream, but I also know that background props are sometimes used as Easter eggs. The other thing I noticed also had to do with a poster and is probably more wishful thinking than anything else. When Locke and Rose are talking, there's another poster behind Locke, with two people sitting on a front porch, looking happy. To me those two people very much resemble Desmond and Kate, to the point that when the episode was over, I rewound it to that point and paused it. Their faces are never really in clear focus, but they DO look like fuzzy versions.
I do have to say that I was very sad when they started to throw dirt on Locke in the grave.
One other thing. When we first see mini-Jacob/Aaron/Mystery Kid, his arms are apparently covered with blood and he holds them out to Flocke as if to say "See? This is what has happened/you've done." Wondering what that's all about.
If Smokey is stuck as Locke, then how did he take the form of Alex last season? Was that something else? Or did he only get stuck after killing Jacob?
@Fred – I was thinking the same thing re: Flocke asking Sawyer to following him being Jesus-like
Also, I do not think Claire could be considered a Shepard since her name -Littleton - was on the cave walls as well, but crossed out. Which makes me think she really did die and/or she is crossed out because she was taken over by the darkness.
Can I keep Sawyer for myself? Please? He's really cute, and I've been told that I'm really cute. I might have to give him up if Kate picks him.
I loved the funeral scene. Frank's line "Weirdest damn funeral I've ever been to" = classic! I also loved when Locke was in the teacher's lounge and Ben was ranting about someone who didn't change the coffee filter. LOL! And then his respond when Locke wants tea: "Well isn't that a gentleman's drink" HA!
The lady who kept asking John what animal he is (which too was priceless) is portrayed by the "fortune teller" lady from "Tricia Tanaka is Dead".
@Marebabe: I loved those two Old Spice commercials! "I'm actually riding a horse, backwards". LOL!
I have a feeling that Sawyer will change his mind before they go home.
I have a theory that the Man in black and Jacob are both the good guys. The Man in Black seemed really . . . human like in this episode.
Jarrar is NOT crossed out. Is there still "hope" for Sayid?
That was me who pointed out that this season's flashbacks are the same as season 1's, Nikki. :)
By the way, yes - next week is Jack and the following week is Sun. Apparently Ben takes the place of Charlie for ep 7...but then ep 8 is back on track with Sawyer!
Since my 'little kid is Jacob a la Spock in ST3' theory has already been mentioned, I have little to say.
Does anyone know about numerology? Do the numbers in any way correspond to the names, or does it have something to do with the order they got on the plane (unless some of the names are Black Rock survivors etc).
When Smokey rescued Sawyer on the ladders, I thought he might have set the whole thing up so he could save him, and thus have him feel an obligation towards him (and sympathy to his cause.) I don't trust him. Don't trust Jacob either. This may be a beyond good and evil thing. Or, as Blackadder said, "As private parts to the gods are we, they play with us for their sport."
If Locke had gone to Jack (and I'm assuming he's had lots of consultations with doctors) and Jack said there was no hope, it would just have made things worse. Jack may be a good doctor, but he's not a magician.
No Sayid. :(
Wasn't the flaky job counsellor (and fortune teller) also the flaky magic shop owner Spike ate in Lover's Walk?
Batcabbage: Why could Sawyer see him, and Richard couldn't? Was that a candidate specific thing?
Maybe all/only the candidates see things? Jack saw his dad, Kate saw a horse, Hurley saw lots of people, Claire saw her dad (she is on the wall as Littleton, but crossed out :( ), Sawyer just saw Teen-Jacob, Locke saw Christian, do not recall Sayid of Jin/Sun seeing anyone, but maybe just not yet (Sawyer didn’t see anyone until this episode.) Just mulling a theory……
Batcabbage: Alter-Ben was fantastic! And I don't know why, but I really loved Locke's look of 'Yay, I've found a friend!' at the end of that scene.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I guess they were friends in a very twisted dysfunctional way in the original timeline.
@JS Sayid (& Shannon) saw Walt.
Once we starting jumping around in time, I have always thought there is some sort of loop at play, and we are just seeing the final loop. Just like when they found Rousseau’s message, Nikki, you point out in your first Finding Lost book that each iteration is slightly different. Maybe the alternate timeline is reflective (what is the literary word??) of the larger loop, and we are seeing the final one where Jacob doesn’t touch the Losties, and the “ending once” is what we will see when the timelines somehow converge. Rousseau’s message had (hundreds of) thousands of iterations, then got shut off. Who knows what iteration this is, but it will not be shut off, or end until the timelines converge.
OK, I really have to go to work now.....
@Karolyn - thank you! Sayid saw projection Walt. And Sun saw Christian Shepard! hmmm
Hi Nikki,
Just wanted to point out something about different reality Locke. You mention that this Locke does not believe in miracles, and hence is different to our original Locke. But really this is not the case. We knoe original Locke AFTER the miracle where he regains his ability to walk. Original Locke could have been just as faithless as different reality Locke, if he had not regained the use of his legs. Also, this trai could also explain why he waivered so much in season 2, to the point of letting the hatch blow up.
Heroe
regarding what Duke and Teebore said about the flash-sideways world is...
even if this is a world where the island/Jacob hasn't influenced the all the characters lives, it still must mean that things prior to the explosion in the 70s happened... right?
So, I was thinking about Locke in the AU world, and I realized he must still have had Richard show up at the hospital to see him as a baby, and probably had the test where Richard showed him the objects... these events happened before jughead went off...
Or in this alternate world, is everything different?
Great recap Nikki, the action definitely developed on this one. To be honest, it was tricky to try to catch Patrick Chan on TSN doing his short figure skating program and Lost, I love both!
I'm thinking the same thing about Locke's father, he must not have been the reason for Locke's paralysis from what Helen said. Locke is still the insecure indecisive guy before the island, evidenced by his waffling on the phone trying to call Jack.
I love how Locke emphasized how nobody should ever tell him what to do, in both realities!
I was thinking about the numbers, if there are 6 numbers and Locke is 4, does that mean that the other characters in order will get the chance to "lead the island" and if they refused, they would be killed off? The numbers almost correspond to the Oceanic 6 but except for Sawyer in place of Aaron. I didn't know who the blond kid was but mini Jacob would make sense, but why show up as a child and not himself as an adult?
I love me some Smokey Locke. I don't know why he would want to kill Sawyer, where is not Locke taking him? I really thought that not Locke was going to cut the rope ladder on Sawyer and have him fall to his death...whew!
Did anyone else think that when they were digging dirt and throwing it over the real Locke, he would pull a Nikki and open his eyes? I also thought that Walt was the delivery guy at the door when Locke's knives were returned at the airport, that would have been cool, but wasn't him. I was strangely impressed with Ben's eulogy, I didn't think that he would actually admit to killing Locke...is this guilt or is this some weird narcissistic way of Ben's to play mind games with the others?
It was so cool to see all the interactions of our characters in the alt reality. Nice to know that even in this reality, Hurley is not a smug SOB as a rich box company owning magnate! I hope Randy somehow gets his!
So all these flash sideways differences, now Ben never made it to the island. Anything is possible then in this reality.
Richard looking frazzled is a nice change of pace, especially for Nestor Carbonell! He must have been tired playing calm cool and collected all the time. I hope he gives our survivors some answers, not the double speak of Dogen...
Can someone remind me again, how did Helen die in the other reality? I seem to remember it was an accident. If so is she about to die in the alt reality?
All in all a great episode...can't wait for the Jin/Sun reunion.
I really enjoyed this episode and believe the writers are thinking about the fans with the parallel stories. I love how most of the main characters are so different in their alternate world. I now have confidence the two time-lines will merger into one terrific conclusion. BTW: The biggest shocker to me was the "scared Richard." Didn't see that one coming....
@Teebore - Maybe that means Shephard isn't Jack?
Oooh! Cool idea - a lot of you guys are thinking the names are the parents/children of the
Oceanic 6; that never would have accured to me on my own. I shake my fists in jealousy and in more than a little bit of admiration at you all!
@Nikki - I saw Richard fall out of his cloth-cage and thought to myself "How does she find the time?"
@Battcabage - I completely agree with you about the whole Blamkins thing :)
@Asiancolossus - Abadon(sp?) claimed that Helen died from a brain aneurysm - but that dude was all sorts of weird so who knows if she was even really dead.
@Blam- Feambace and behooves! Heh!:D
What a great show last night! Way to get the recap up so quickly Nikki.
Just a nit-pik, but technically, I don't think Aaron's last name is Sheppard. Also, I have to throw my hat in with those who believe the boy appearing to Flocke was Jacob-as-a-boy. Wouldn't it be interesting if Jacob and MIB made up the rules of their game as young boys? What if they were children playing a game and later took over the bodies of grown men? Crazy, I know, but things always seem creepier if Chillen' of the Corn are behind it.
I'm beginning to think there is no "good" or "bad " side to the game. Just rules. When my husband and I play backgammon I always choose the dark pieces. Does that mean I'm evil? Nope. (Well maybe I am, but it has nothing to do with the backgammon).
If Ben appears in 2004, then the bomb most definitely did not kill everyone on the Island. It may or may not have sunk the Island after the fact, but others may have escaped before it went under.
I loved the story arc of this episode, and all the laughs they provided along with the thrills.
Tanyam
My guess is that non-John Locke only got into the cave when he was Smokey. I bet Jacob was a dove or some other type of bird. Then why were the stairs built? For guests like Sawyer? Why did he build that cave there to use with all those ladders? Non-John Locke must have been there before if he knew what the names meant. Did the Temple people know that those people were all "candidates"? What about Miles when the Temple people read the names? Was Miles one of them? Why did they take candidates only from this timeline? All those years and Jacob only thought about Flight 815?
I was so upset when Kate didn't have a number. I will have to re-watch to see if Austen is on there somewhere. OR.. what if she is a "Shephard" because they were engaged when they were off the island? Like the "Kwons" were a couple????
I am betting that the blond child is Jacob. They made an agreement as boys and Richard was the kid left out. Boy Jacob took him on his side and that is why he is Jacob's servant. Boy-Non-John-Locke was the bad guy, even as kids. I will even bet that Richard saw the kid and didn't want to admit it to non-John.
I need to watch a few more times to read that cave ceiling.
i might be late, be i just wanna point something cool out. right at the commercial break when UNLOCKE and Sawyer saw the little blond boy, my mother turns to me and says completely out of the blue :"wouldn't it be neat if that kid were Aaron?"
now...chew on that.
Another crazy thought: maybe ALL of the candidates have to die all at once in order for MIB to finally leave the island?
Tanyam
@CBP68: bet Jacob was a dove or some other type of bird.
When I read this, all I could think was - Jacob was the Hurley Bird! Ha!
Why does Non-John Locke want to leave the island so badly? Does he know that back in reality, people text, talk loud on cell phones and eat fast food? What's so great about being back here?
Is he going to try to "Smokey" his way around? Doesn't he know that us New Yorkers have seen it all? Is that what that black smoke is coming out of the subways????
I bet Sawyer just wants to get back to Clementine...
Haven't read all the comments yet so this may already been answered. The not-Locke told Sawyer that Jacob wrote the names on the wall. But, how do we know this is true? Maybe he wrote the names and scratched them out.
Locke smiles when then sprinklers come on. He always reveled in the rain on the island.
I half expected Nadia to be his neighbor and come to his assistance.
Helen: What are the odds of running into a spinal surgeon? Ben on island: What are the odds of a spinal surgeon dropping out of the sky?
What did Locke do for a week in Australia?
When we first see “the Kid” both of his hands are bloody.
Did Sawyer have a bottle of whiskey in that shoe box?
Posters on the side wall of the employment office all refer to dreams, ie dream job,etc.
At Locke’s “funeral” it seemed like Ben was going to say something sarcastic, then became sincere.
What credentials does Locke have to be a substitute teacher?
Ben: I know I sound like a broken record.
Whenever we are in Dharmaville the soundtrack has a clicking noise in background. We also here lots of birds, but never see any.
Now, that's the LOST I know and love! Much, much better this week.
Superb recap, Nik -- you covered pretty much everything that comes immediately to mind. This is one that I really want to watch again before I lock down my final analysis, but here are a couple of quick things:
- I loved the way that first scene played out. When Locke falls into the yard, and then we hear the sound of the sprinklers cycling up, my first reaction was to laugh, followed immediately by the guilt response for laughing at someone else's misfortune, in addition to the rising concern that Locke was about to blow his stack and have a mini-meltdown there in the grass. I was so relieved when he started laughing, too. And then... Helen appears! Well done. Outstanding opener.
- When the vested jungle kid first appears to NonJohn, I immediately thought of Aaron. Jacob, of course, would be another reasonable assumption, but the fact that the kid speaks about Jacob directly and refers to him as "him" in that conversation instead of "me" seems like a weird inconsistency... And that face definitely looks like Claire to me, particularly in the eyes. I know some people have said that Aaron wouldn't be so grown, but that just depends on which time he's come from, or how time passes for him, and on this island, I think we've established that all bets are off. For that matter, who's to say that Jacob hasn't really been Aaron all along?
- I'm pretty convinced that 'Kwon' on the ceiling refers to Sun, not Jin, since he wasn't able to see Jacob at the van w/Hurley when they were huddled up over gutshot Sayid during the premiere, but I don't think we can rule out the possibility of Ji Yeon, whose conception may well have been the entire reason for bringing Jin & Sun to the island in the first place.
- Michael Emerson only had a handful of lines in this ep, but boy, did he ROCK 'em! That guy is so frakkin' good, man. I was instantly amazed by how different "Mr. Linus" seemed from the Ben we've come to know, even represented in one quick look and only a line or two, and I can't wait to see more of him.
@Blam Esau may not have felt that it was in his interest to point her name out to James
Oh, good point! I bet she's up there somewhere, and Esau knew seeing her name would change Sawyer's approach to things, make him less malleable.
the Man in Black, who despite arguments from friends I still highly doubt is the good guy.
Agreed. I've heard some compelling arguments from some very intelligent and witty people, but I still think black stone=evil=Man in Black. Not that it means Jacob is a stand up guy, but he's definitely the light force opposing the dark force.
One thing I'll say for Esau...is that he did give us some answers, even if their context or backstory haven't yet been fleshed out.
One of the things I noticed last night is that while Jacob and his disciples (the Others) reveal little by saying little, Flocke seems to reveal little by saying a lot. Like a good con man, he seems to ALWAYS be talking, always spinning some kind of story, but when you think about it, he's saying a lot but not really saying anything.
For example, his soliloquy that Nikki called attention to (which was brilliant) didn't REALLY answer Sawyer's question, but it seems like it did.
(All that said, his forthrightness about the names on the cave wall, what it means to be a candidate and Sawyer's choices, was surprisingly forthright. I'm curious to see how much truth he was telling, particularly that last one).
@SonshineMusic Lockalike chasing the boy through the woods was very reminiscent of Jack chasing his father in "White Rabbit"
Good catch! I missed that.
@Blam I still don't get why people assume that ship was The Black Rock
Personally, I blame it on narrative convenience. The show has shown us a 19th century sailing ship on the island. Then it shows us another one very similar in style, and mentions that it's coming to the island. The simple explanation (not that Lost is ever that...) is that the two fairly unique things are the same thing.
So until told otherwise, I've been assuming that 19th century ship=Black Rock, the other 19th century ship we've seen. But I'll freely admit I could be wrong.
And, in Nikki's defense, she didn't say it was the Black Rock; she simply used the style of the ship as an indication of the time Jacob and Esau were in when it appeared, which, Black Rock or not, I think is a fair assumption.
@AmbivalentMan This leaves Jack, who is slowly becoming the man of faith John Locke was once upon a time.
Jack=Locke's substitute. I like it. It's further payoff to the proxy business from last season, and Jack's ongoing development.
@Brian Douglas: Or did he only get stuck after killing Jacob?
I bet that's it. Killing Jacob changed the rules, and that somehow "locked" Smokey into that form (pun intended).
@Minna So, I was thinking about Locke in the AU world, and I realized he must still have had Richard show up at the hospital to see him as a baby, and probably had the test where Richard showed him the objects... these events happened before jughead went off...
You are most likely correct; as far as we know (and can safely assume) everything that happened prior to Jughead blowing up happened in both realities. Of course, they could blow that assumption away at any point...
@SonshineMusic but how else did he meet Helen?
Some things are meant to happen in every reality. Locke and Helen are destined to end up together, whether they meet at anger management following Locke's father stealing a kidney, or some other less angry way.
continued...
@Tanyam Just a nit-pik, but technically, I don't think Aaron's last name is Sheppard.
Technically, no. His last name is either Littleton or Austen. But that doesn't mean he's not still a Shephard. His uncle is a Shephard, his grandfather, he's one, regardless of his last name. And something tells me Jacob doesn't care too much for the nuances of maiden names and legal names and such.
Another crazy thought: maybe ALL of the candidates have to die all at once in order for MIB to finally leave the island?
Oh, I like that. It fits with Richard's crazed assertion that he wants to kill everyone Sawyer cares about. KillJacob, then the Losties, the remaining candidates, and there will be no one left to imprison Smokey.
@Paleoblues: What credentials does Locke have to be a substitute teacher?
In my school district, the only credentials you need are a college degree. In anything. You probably make more money if you're a licensed teacher subbing, but to just substitute teach, you don't need much. At least around here.
Minna mentioned Richard's test of young Locke. In light of this candidate business, I wonder, was he testing Locke for candidacy, or for future leadership of the Others? Are the two different things? Is the Others' leader a candidate until proven otherwise? Was Ben once a candidate? Widmore?
What I loved most about the episode was Locke's burial. The Un-Locke story twist at the end of last season seemed to have robbed Real-Locke of a proper death scene (as we already thought we knew he would return to island alive after getting strangled). So it was great they finally gave us the opportunity to say a goodbye to this character. Better late than never! Poor Bram, though...
Great recap as usual, Nikki! And thanks so much for posting the Iggy Pop lyrics. I was totally wondering what that song was, and seeing the lyrics makes it even more meaningful to the episode.
@Sonshinemusic: When Lockalike returned to Sawyer and said "What boy?", I think he was being sarcastic. He had just asked Sawyer who he was talking to (it was Richard) but Sawyer said "nobody". I think Locke knew (heard him) talking to someone, so when Sawyer asked him about the boy he returned with a non-answer.
I haven't seen this mentioned but suppose MIB and Saywer were to leave the island and they arrived in the flash-sideways world. What if the flash-sideways are showing the current reality off island and not an ALT reality at all.
@paleoblues - I had the same question! What was Locke doing in Australia if he wasn't on the walkabout and wasn't at the conference? Maybe he was hanging out with Shannon! ;-)
In one of their podcasts, Darlton goes through a list of characters and reels off answers about wether they are "apparitions", "ghosts", or such. It would be interesting at this point to go back and find that podcast. It might enlighten us about what has happened to Claire, Locke, Sayid, etc.
Does anyone remember that podcast?
Tanyam
Don't know if anyone else mentioned this - you mention the phone numbers were the same on the business card....did you notice the cards in the close up and farther shots are TOTALLY different - close ups have a black bar along the top. the farther shots show a gold logo on the card with no black bar. What's up with that?
Oh and another thing about the business card - someone above mentioned the long space between st. and sebastian... there's a heart in between them. It's a dark red against the black bar, but it's there.
Here's a shot of the card with the black bar / heart between st. and sebastian...
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_n3eH1jI8AZ8/S2ljH9ZjFGI/AAAAAAAARHg/zV0hqEtmheY/s400/jack%27s+business+card.jpg
LOCKE HAS THE SAME MUG AS I DO! We're pretty much soul mates.
I have read most comments and have nothing new to note. You guys are the best. I was so fully engrossed in the episode, I really felt like I was living that quote, "can't see the forest for the trees." It was just so big, grande, and completely wonderful.
As I watched with my kids, I remember saying during a commercial break, "Oh my God, I love this show so much...this is the BEST episode ever." My kids said, "Mom, you ALWAYS say that." I just remember not wanting it to end. I will be rewatching later again today.
Loved Josh Holloway/Sawyer. Truly incredible performances keep coming from him. Scared Richard was a highlight, and rattled NotLocke seeing the boy was intriguing.
I liked the off island Locke. So sweet and seemingly content and happy. Rose was right...acceptance does make life "liveable." Strange how they were all in Australia together. On the last 815 flight, Rose remembered seeing Locke before the flight took off. Guess she didn't see Locke, or Hurley (her boss). Was she maybe on the flight in conjunction with her job for Hurley? Probably doesn't matter. Glad to see Helen too.
Ben off island...LOL. Such a perfect way to represent him. Just thought of this...maybe his mother DIDN'T die during childbirth, so Roger loved him fully without any resentment and never forgot his birthday. Therefore, maybe Roger never met Horace Goodspeed, so he never went to the Island. Perhaps Ben, like Locke, will be a well rounded and content individual.
Can't wait for next week...hope beyond hope that it's a JACK episode.
Mike - thanks for the spoilers. Some people don't want to know weeks in advance whose episodes are coming up. Dude! (Sigh)
Jacob & Desmond - just a couple of guys stuck on the island waiting for their replacements.
Would Jack even be the "Miracle Surgeon"? Did Jacob make that happen somehow?
-Tim Alan
When I saw the stones on the scale, I first thought the obvious black and white thing. Then I thought black rock, Black Rock. Something evil on that ship?
Could anyone see Austen written on the cave ceiling? It's gotta be there somewhere.
stellar episode, stellar recap...after last weeks episode im glad kate is NOT one of the #s.
"Was anyone else scared there’d be a dug-up empty grave on the beach with some diamonds scattered in it?!"
thats exactly what i was thinking.
loved flocke/smokey tossing the stone into water and muttering "inside joke" and while i could feel the presence of someone we know entering into lockes parallel i wouldnt have guessed rose and ben. nice stuff.
what a great episode after last weeks snoozer. interesting how all the flash sideways are following the order of orig flashbacks
Just thought of this...did off island Ben get a tumor on his neck? Did Jack Shephard operate? Will off island Ben mention this event and the awesome surgeon who saved his life to off island Locke? I don't think this off island Jack/Locke story is finished yet.
btw my bro-in-law is in town and never watched LOST before. he saw last nights episode w/us and said it was "like survivor on acid"
@Teebore: Locke went to college?
book idea for nikki!!!
i have two editions of "The Dictionary of Imaginary Places" by Alberto Manguel and Gianni Guadalupi. its a fun reference book that treats all of our fave fictional places with encyclopedic entries including maps, history etc.
i think we need one for LOST. The LOST atlas or something to be written when this is all over. maps of the island, etc.
anyone second the motion?
@PaleobluesLocke went to college?
Honestly, I have no idea. My point was just that it probably doesn't take much in the way of qualifications (certainly not specialized ones) to be a substitute teacher.
BatCabbage- Is it possible that Roup-20 is Rousseau-20 ?
I also wonder if perhaps Richard did see the Boy, but pretended not to, in order to try and rattle Not-Locke ?
Someone on Lostpedia with too much time on their hands has made a list of names on the cave wall. It's obviously not complete but quite an amazing effort. They saw way more names than I could find.
If you're interested it's at http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Cliffside_cave
Hey guys, sorry I'm late! Oh crap, 92 comments... here we go.
Marebabe: That Old Spice commercial had my husband and I staring at the screen for a second, then looking at each other and bursting into laughter. "I'm on a horse." HAHAHA!
Susan: I saw Mattingly, too... I thought I saw a Littleton but couldn't see it well enough to tell for sure. I didn't see the Troup! But can I just register a complaint here that such a hack writer would be considered a candidate?! Good lord.
Lesley C: My theory on the identity of the child Flocke/NotLocke chases: Aaron, Claire's son.
Whoa. I LOVE that. Of COURSE!! Why is it that every time we see a blond-haired person on the island I say, "Hey, could that be an older Aaron?!" (I did it with Jacob) but I didn't do it here. Duh. Great theory!
JS: Did Smokey put Richard in a bag so he could roam, Smokey-cam style? How does he carry that backpack?
I wondered the same thing. Perhaps if he grabbed Richard, the way he did Keamy's guy and Eko, he would have squeezed the life out of him, so putting him in the sack meant Richard would still have a painful and treacherous journey, but he wouldn't be reduced to a mere grease spot at the end of it, as my Italian uncle would say. :)
Anonymous: I think that Kate wasn't on the cave wall because only males can be candidates. This would make sense that only one Kwon was written on the wall, that being Jin. Just a thought but it would explain why only Kate's name isn't on the all.
I wondered, that, too... though I think that would be a little odd, given the nature of the show. But it might suggest a patriarchy on the island that doesn't allow chicks or something.
EamonnToGetLost: - Who is the boy that MIB saw? Jacob? Aaron? Or someone else? And how could someone ELSE appear to MIB? Isn’t that his own modus operandi?
As I said in my post, I'm wondering if maybe he's NOT those dead people... but Smokey must be in cahoots with them, because Yemi tested Eko and Smokey smote him, which makes me think that they were working together somehow.
Minna: One thing I have to say is... why is Ben alive in the AU? At the time of the explosion, he was in a tent with the Others, having recently been healed. He wouldn't have been put on the sub, like Ethan (or presumably Miles and Charlotte). Shouldn't he be dead in this reality?
An excellent question, and one that occurred to me this morning as I was on my way to work. Is it possible that Richard managed to get Eloise and Ben off the island to keep them safe? Does that mean Widmore is also out there somewhere?
The rift would have happened in 1977, not sooner... which begs the question, did all of Jacob's contact with people happen post-1977? The earliest we saw was James, and that was in 1978. Kate is a little younger than he is, and he touches her when she's about 8 or 9, so that would be a little later.
Random thought: Locke is now buried on the beach, the same beach on which he once commented that nothing stays buried. Might we one day see the resurrection of Locke for reals?
Since Sayid is a "candidate" and he has been "claimed" does that mean that Sayid is the New Jacob? Is Smokey in need of a replacement too?
When Richard visited young Locke to do the find-the-next-Dalai Lama-ey test, was that sand or ash inside one of the vials? If Locke had chosen the ash/sand,would that have foreshadowed his taking over Jacob's role as protector of the Island?On the other hand , if he had chosen the compass , would that signify his taking over Eloise's job (with his penchant for science)?(Who's Eloise working with/for at the Lamp Post anyway?)What if Locke chose the "Book of Laws"(would he replace Richard) or the "Mystery Tales" comic book (would he become a polar bear?just kidding)...and what's with the baseball mitt?
How come Richard can spot Smokey even when he's in the form of Not-Locke? And why didn't he go inside the Temple, even when Ben told him that John was asking for him to come inside?Is Richard prohibited from freely speaking to Jacob /entering his crib unless summoned by Jacob and Jacob alone?
*I noticed that during the close-ups of dead Locke, Terry o-Quinn's eyes were twitching, hehe.
What was Jacob's purpose in touching Kate(i.e. manipulating all the events and decisions in her life leading her to crash into the Island)if she wasn't a candidate?
Why are all of Jacob's body guards Middle Eastern-looking?Or are they of Egyptian descent?
...argh so many questions!
@Patwas that sand or ash inside one of the vials?
This reminded me of another thought I had. When Ilana scooped up some of the ash from inside the statute, I wondered if perhaps this wasn't the first time Jacob has died and been cremated. Perhaps the ash that wards off Smokey is Jacob ash?
When John's alarm clock goes off in the flash-sideways right before he tries to phone Jack, it reminded me of the alarm in the Swan when the timer got down to ten seconds.
When John was in Rose's office looking for a new job, there was a picture behind him that looked like Sawyer and Kate on the raft.
@Pat: what's with the baseball mitt
My take on that was always that the baseball mitt was something a "normal" boy might have picked - kind of a red herring - like if he picked it, then he wasn't anything special at all.
In the questions answered department, I think we can safely say we now know why the Oceanic Six had to come back to the island: because they were all candidates (which is also why the Others are now protecting them).
Perhaps the fact that Aaron and J Yeon didn't need to come back to the island suggests they are not the "Shephard" and "Kwon" candidates.
(Sorry for all the random thoughts...they're coming to me as I'm working on my own blog post)
@ ARTAR: concerning a LOSt Atlas of some sort...I agree 100%!
I'm a huge Star Wars nut, and I love getting all of the guidebooks & whatnot that are just chock full of info about the mythology of the movies. One book i have is a huge white hardcover called Star Wars: the Complete Visual Dictionary, and it's page after page after page of pictures and facts about characters, vehicles, planets & everything else, covering all six Star Wars films.
I really, really, REALLY hope that a book of this caliber is made about LOST once the show is complete. and if nobody else makes it, I nominate the lovely Nikki for the job. We can sure help her cobble together that information with all of the dsicussions we've had over the years!
LOL Now I'm itching for LOST merchandise!
VW: cornical; "when something is comedic, albeit in a very corny way."
@The Question Mark: I agree with you on both counts: the awesomeness of Star Wars reference material (I'm currently poring through the recent Star Wars Atlas, and I love the Visual Dictionary you mentioned) and the hope for something similar, someday, for Lost.
THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE ALTERED TIMELINE ON THE DESTINY VS. FREE WILL DEBATE
I like to give things titles :)
The jury is certainly still out on the purpose of the Altered Timeline, but I think last night's episode gave us a pretty big clue.
Since 5.16 (The Incident), we've been speculating that Jacob and the MIB have something of a disagreement over whether destiny or free will is the more prevalent force. The MIB says "They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same." And then in 6.03, he goes on to tell Sawyer that Jacob manipulated him, made his choices for him, and pushed him to the Island, denying Sawyer his free will. So even if MIB is pro-free will, he certainly doesn't believe in its relevance for our heroes.
Jacob, on the other hand, claimed on the beach in 5.16 that "it only ends once" and the rest is progress. For him the behavior of Island visitors is an ongoing, growing effort that has slowly improved over time and has yet to reach it's conclusion. Here Jacob comes off believing in the power of free will - the power of our characters to choose to better themselves. Even if Jacob hasn't been quite as manipulative as the MIB claimed to Sawyer, these are odd opinions coming from someone who has clearly exerted some kind of force/influence on our heroes through their lives.
This being LOST, we're obviously dealing with a mixture of free will and destiny here -- this show doesn't like dealing in absolutes and I hope it continues to avoid them. The MIB sees destiny as a burden that limits and wastes lives and is opposed to free will. Perhaps Jacob, appreciates a more nuanced merger of the two. Perhaps for him destiny is the responsibilities people have that they cannot avoid, the character traits that are part of their nature and lead them to value/protect/uphold certain things. Meanwhile, free will in this view is comprised of the choices, motivations, and efforts that people make both because of their destined inclinations and that have led to their destined inclinations.
It's a chicken/egg scenario. We fight for what we believe in because it's our nature to do so; but our nature is also built on the beliefs we have chosen. Our nature (destiny) guides us, but our decisions and experiences (free will) have been largely for its definition.
So what's the Altered Universe have to do with this? It's too early to say how things are going to pan out, but how they do will be major evidence in the free will/destiny debate. In 6.03 the MIB accuses Jacob of subverting our heroes free will, but the Altered Universe is showing us play by play how our characters lives would have turned out without Jacob's influence. Sometimes the changes seem huge, but other times the more things change, the more they seem to stay the same. Locke setting aside his "faith" may be the biggest character difference yet... but even his story might not yet be complete.
Maybe when the Altered Universe meets up with the Original Timeline it'll be as the evidence and answer to what was intrinsically part of these people of their own volition (free will), and what precisely was Jacob's and/or The Island's doing...
@Sagacious Penguin Maybe when the Altered Universe meets up with the Original Timeline it'll be as the evidence and answer to what was intrinsically part of these people of their own volition (free will), and what precisely was Jacob's and/or The Island's doing...
I like this. It's almost like the flashsideways reality is Jacob's way of countering MiB's accusation in this episode.
Jacob: "You say that while I stand for free will, I'm just manipulating people into doing what I want them to do? Fine. Here's a reality in which I've been removed from the picture entirely. These people made the choices they made without my influence at all. Notice how similar, despite some differences, that reality is to ours? Perhaps I'm less manipulative than you thought."
By the way -- I LOVE how much they humanized the MIB in this episode. Sure he might be our big bad, but now he's not just 'pure evil' for the sake of it. Thank goodness! (That was the single slip in the otherwise stellar final arch of ST:DS9 - making Pagh-wraith-possessed Dukat the ultimate evil to be defeated sans any shades of gray).
Now that we've seen the Smoke Monster living, breathing, emoting, fearing, plotting... Just TRY and watch any other Smokey scene from seasons past in the same way you did before. This one episode has turned every monster encounter on its head. Our attempts to categorize it's animal-like behaviors over the years can be seen in a VERY different light now that he's a villain with Shakespearian depth!
Wall of names - pah! For me, the humanization of the monster was the game-changer of the night!
Verification word: HYDRA - very appropriate :)
@gILLIAN - Woah, sorry, caps lock.
When John was in Rose's office looking for a new job, there was a picture behind him that looked like Sawyer and Kate on the raft.
Someone else said they saw a pic of Desmond there. Did you see that?
@Teebore - Random thought: Locke is now buried on the beach, the same beach on which he once commented that nothing stays buried. Might we one day see the resurrection of Locke for reals?
Oooh, I hopes so! I really don't like Locke being dead-dead. I was really glad to see him and Helen together, it reminded me how lovable Locke is.
@Pamalamb: Side-world and faith in the writers that this is important. And so was the first 6 episodes of Season 3 on Hydra island, or at least that's what we were told. We have to conclude sometimes the writers can give us a lame storyline, and unless something happens soon, the side-world will just be an excuse to return past actors, a sort of trip down memory-lane.
@brian Douglas: My exact same thoughts last night. If MiB is stuck in Locke's form, then who is Alex. And if this rule applies in the past, then who are all the other figures we've seen, like Yemi, Harper, Charlie, Christian (actually he may be MiB's latest form before Locke). Clearly there is a third player, or we've not been told the real rules--like, the monster can call up the dead.
@Karolyn: Jarrah is not crossed out for the same reason Locke was not crossed out, Jacob didn't have time to do so before he was killed by Ben.
Connection to Season 1: Boone became Locke's sidekick, just as Sawyer is now. Boone fell from a cliff in a plane and died, but Sawyer fell from the cliff but was saved by Locke. I guess we now know who is the better Captain.
I was one of the people that mentioned that the guy on the poster LOOKS like Desmond. I don't know if it is. I could be like Hurley's Mr Cluck's ad where the people in the restaurant only resemble Jack, Kate, Locke, Michael and Walt. It could also be my imagination. But Jack from thayNay and Jack podcast said the same thing.
Should have said Jay and Jack podcast. Sorry.
Now I'm really confused about the meaning of the numbers on the roof of the cave. Doesn't relate to the Oceanic 6. Locke is the first number at 4 and he is dead. Hurley is supposed to be next at 8but it seems that James is the possible next chosen one to lead the island? There has got to be significance to the fact that only one of the Kwons is on the list.
@Joan: I went back and watched the episode on the CTV website. It looks more like Desmond than Sawyer.
VW: Suffer- What John Locke did before coming to the island in the original timeline.
Oh, another thing- how did the DI DISCOVER that the sonic fence would keep Smokey out?And who gave Ilana-and-the-Gang Smokey-repellent ashes off the Island?
A biblical reference, if I may. On the ceiling in the cave it says "23 -Shephard". Psalm 23 specifically mentions a shepherd. Naomi referred to Jack as Moses, someone who led their people out of a dangerous place. I'm thinking that Jack is going to play a major role in the very near future. Just a thought.
I've been giving this some thought and it occurs to me that the young boy that UnLocke saw last night might be .... his own son. We've seen characters from our LOSTaways' past appear to them before, to remind them of their past transgressions or evoke in them remorse and regret. Now, a lot of these times we've later assumed that this apparitions were just Smokey (and perhaps they were) but I'm not sure.
Jack obviously sees his late father. Kate sees the horse. (interestingly, so did Sawyer) Hurley sees his imaginary friend, Dave. Eko sees Yemi. Juliet sees Harper Stanhope. Locke sees Taller Ghost Walt. Then last night, UnLocke sees ... a little boy, his arms held out from his sides, smeared with blood.
When he sees him again, he chases after him through the jungle. When he returns to Sawyer, he talks about how he was once a man, who knew what it was to lose someone he loved and to be betrayed. I'm starting to wonder if MIB had a son on the Island who was gravely wounded ... and grew angry and embittered when he couldn't save him, perhaps after a trip to the Temple of his own.
At some point, he aligned with the dark energy of the Island and became one with Smokey. Thereafter, he lurked on the fringes of the Temple, wreaking havoc on those Jacob brought to the Island time and again. Finally, his rage became all-consuming and Jacob's followers had him imprisoned at the Cabin, keeping him surrounded by ash ... until that was disturbed one day and he leapt free to seek his loophole and thereby have his revenge.
OUT there? Absolutely. But surely the vision of his lost son would haunt him in this moment, reminding him (as other apparitions have done for their charges) that repentance is the only escape from damnation.
Of course, someone might have tabbed my iced tea, too. That's always a possibility. ; ]
Hey guys, I'm sorry I'm being such crap at moderating and not responding to anything: I'm trying to tie up loose ends at work (and had a long meeting this morning) and I'm also packing for Mexico, leaving on a plane tomorrow at 3:30am (UGH) so I'm rushing around and trying to get on here as often as I can. But I'm sure Blam and humanebean are keeping you in line... they are the black and white stones of this blog, don't you know... (I won't say which is which...) ;)
verif word: sonsest. I was going to make a joke about what happens if Sonshine Music and AchingHope became attracted to one another, but that would be FAR too inappropriate. So I won't say it. ;)
@humanebean: Oooohhh... I like that theory. Even if it isn't so, I really like it. Hmmm... now to go contemplate that for a bit
Yeah, I'm definitely going to have to stew on this "MiB's son" idea for a bit. I like it. It certainly fits with the past appearances of apparitions on the island: someone from the character's past haunting them.
Safe travels, Nik! We're packing for a cruise, here, leaving Saturday morning. Enjoy your trip!
P.S. I think Blam is the white stone and Evil Blam is the black. Just sayin'.
Sorry to belabor the point, but you can't just walk in off the street and be a substitute teacher. Especially in the state of California. And teach human reproduction, no less. And grabbing a kid by the arm. I can hear the phone in the administration office ringing already. You might think I'm being picky, but I've been there.
Verf: sistr ..... Clair in search of an "e"
@Minna: why is Ben alive in the AU? At the time of the explosion, he was in a tent with the Others... Shouldn't he be dead in this reality?
Minna, maybe I'm WAY oversimplifying things, but the way I see it is this: Ben never went to the island in the Sideways world. After his mom had him (dying shortly after childbirth) his father (Roger) did NOT join the Dharma Initiative, and hence never went to the island.
@paleoblues but you can't just walk in off the street and be a substitute teacher. Especially in the state of California.
Well, I can't speak for the rules in California (my experiences are culled from suburban Minnesota, where, not to knock our school system, which is pretty good, you CAN more or less walk in off the street and substitute teach so long as you pass a background check and have some kind of higher education because they're so desperate for subs) but my point was more that how Locke became a sub is probably not that important, and something we should just roll with. What matters, I think, is that it put him in the proximity of Sideways Ben.
For me, it's not SO unbelievable that he could be a sub. Personally, I have an easier time believing Locke could become a substitute teacher than I do that Claire would become best friends with her carjacker in the course of an afternoon.
Once again you state you need some kind of higher education, even in Minn and once again I ask when did Locke go to college. It may not be important to you who gets to teach kids, but to someone who has been in education for over 40 years it is.
If there was ever an episode of Lost to fire the imagination it was this one. I for one loved the numbers/names on the cave reveal. Can't wait to see some screen grabs to get a good look at all the names that were crossed out.
This episode was, like many Locke-centric ones, about faith. In the flash-sideways it seems that happy Locke lacks the faith of our Locke, and ends up living , unambitious but quietly successful life.
There was a deliberate parallel drawn between flash-sideways Locke's decision not to call Jack, thus potentially missing a chance experience something extraordinary , and Not-Locke's lack of faith in Jacob's role as Island guardian(echoed in the task of pressing the button in the Swan )Are they really guarding the Island for nothing? What is the real role of The Island? Looks to me we're going to see the Losties forced to choose which side they are on.
Are we going to end up with Locke and Jack as the new Jacob / Man in Black sitting on the beach watching another plane/boat/spacerocket approaching the Island and waxing lyrical about free will?
Its interesting reading everyone's comments on who the young boy was. The minute I saw him I instantly though of Aaron. I have no idea how or why!
Quick theory about where the flash-sideways are headed - what if absence of the Island's influence (which looks to be having a positive effect on the not-Losties lives) actually means that some upcoming global catastrophe is not averted. Will the flash-sideways finish with the end of the world?
@paleoblues: when did Locke go to college.
I dunno, after he graduated high school?
I don't think the show has ever said one way or the other whether Locke went to college. Whatever the specific criteria are for substitute teaching in CA, I think we can just assume that Locke has met them.
It may not be important to you who gets to teach kids, but to someone who has been in education for over 40 years it is.
I'm not sure if you're kidding here or not. I didn't mean that holding substitute teachers, in the real world, to certain criteria doesn't matter. Just that, in the context of the show, establishing Locke's teaching credentials aren't that important to the narrative.
I mean, it isn't like Locke, the fictional character, is actually teaching real kids.
Familiar names from the cave ceiling (thanks to various eagle-eyed posters on Lost forums across the net)
Lewis
Goodspeed
Littleton
Pace
Straume
Faraday
Troupe
Okay I have just read all the posts so I'm good to post now. LOL
I want to first address the substitute teacher thing between paleoblues and Teebore. I am a teacher in Mass, and in my district, you don't need a degree to be a sub. As Teebore said, you do need to pass a background check. You don't need a college degree. The regular substitutes that sub a classroom when a teacher is out are honestly glorified babysitters. I respect them all but in reality, that's what they are. 99% do not teach. They hand out whatever the teacher left (if they knew they would be out) or give the assignment from the emergency sub folder (we're all required to have one). They collect the work at the end of class and they keep the class in order. Only one of our subs actually teaches if time allows and that's because he has a degree in science (he's retired) and he enjoys talking to the kids about it. So personally, I enjoyed seeing Locke trying to teach the kids. I think any sub that does that is fantastic. Now, if he's what we call a permanent sub (taking over for a teacher who's out long term), then they ARE expected to teach and the school would look to hire someone with a degree and even a teaching license. So that's my input on the topic.
Now, on to other things....
OMG I squeed too when I saw Helen. I yelled out "Helen!" In fact, I think I yelled out a lot during the entire episode. I am with Nikki, I LOVED this episode and mostly because I loved seeing Locke happy with Helen. And I had questioned in the premiere what was going to be different with people. Like Locke winding up in a wheelchair still but for a different reason. Helen mentioning his father confirms that for me. I have no rewatched it yet to look for the things I missed but I will.
When they were burying Locke in the "cemetery" I said to my boyfriend, "OMG all my Lost bloggers are freaking out right now with me with fear that Nikki and Paulo are going to pop out of a grave!" And yes, I did think we'd see diamonds! LOL!!
I also have a question that goes with the thinking of what's different in the flashsideways: how do we know Hurley won the lottery with THE numbers? I thought this when he said "I'm the luckiest guy in the world." but not I definitely question it.
OMG, the crab on Locke's head. LMAO! Nikki, I seriously laughed so hard when I read your comment about how much they pay the actors but no money in the world could make you do that. When I first saw the crab, I thought "Wow, Terry O'Quinn is doing a good job at staying still." Then when it moved I was like "Eeek! How did he not even shudder a little?" LOL!
Not liking how Sawyer is going along with MIB. I thought it was over when that ladder fell. I know Sawyer doesn't really feel like he has much to live for but I'm hoping he wants to get off island so he can see Clementine.
I do hope there's more the numbers. Or if there isn't, they better make it damn interesting as to how they wound up on the hatch and were broadcast.
As for the little kids...I have no idea. LOL I'm with all the ideas already posted...young jacob or Aaron. I'm dying to find out these "rules".
And yes, so great to see Ben as a teacher. Lest we forget that it was a teacher that had faith in Locke when he was younger. Perhaps Locke takes a liking to Ben when he's so nice to him.
Sidenote: my fears for the premiere and my boyfriend came true with this episode instead. He's an on/off again watcher. I was afraid on the premiere I'd have to put up with what I always put up with: him saying "who's that? what's that?" and me "I dunno yet." back and fohth. Well he was quiet for the premiere but last night it went like this:
"who's Helen?" Me: rolls eyes
him: "Who's that chick crying?" me: "Ilana." him: "who's that?"
me in one breath: "thechickwhocapturedSayidandbroughthimontheAjira
flighttogethimbacktothe
islandbutreallywas
workingforJacobandnowis
tryingtohelpeveryone."
That shut him up! LOL
Re: I mean, it isn't like Locke, the fictional character, is actually teaching real kids.
Now you’ve got to be kidding. If it’s all just fictional and we’re not talking about real people, who cares about anything that happens.
Actually, when I asked about Locke’s credentials I was merely interested in filling in his back story. We know he worked in a toy dept., joined an anger management group, was a home inspector, joined a commune that grew marijuana, underwent therapy for depression and worked at a box company.
It doesn’t sound like he went to college and might not even be able to pass a background check.
BTW: When Sawyer said, "Well, I better put some pants on"...was I the only who started to sing "pants on the ground, pants on the ground...."
paleoblues: well, IF he did all those things in THIS reality, then he might not pass a backgroud check. Maybe he didn't go to the marijuana farm? LOL
All this has me thinking: Rose said to him that they should focus on finding him a job the CAN do. I wonder if it's just a general job that "can" do or if he's meant to do it? As I said before, it was a teacher who believed in him when he was younger. Perhaps he likes the idea of giving that kind of support back? (That's why I'm a teacher.) And of course as we've seen, he was meant to be there to meet Ben. LOL
In regards to the whole Locke teaching thing... We have seen that there are some pretty significant differences in the timelines. So in Locke's current timeline he may not have done many of the things he did in the timeline we know. After all, he's still with Helen and in contact with his Dad in a healthy enough way she would invite him to their wedding. It seems to me he joined the marijuana growers after Cooper stole his kidney. As to the other jobs, just because he worked in a box company or for a retail store doesn't mean he didn't have a college degree.
I live in NY and here you simply have to have a degree to be a substitute teacher, so it doesn't seem at all unlikely to me that it would be something he might find to do.
VW: swabless - When pirates lose their mops
Oy! I check in here quickly to find not just 100 more messages than last time but Nikki's expectations that I've been helping to keep you folks "in line" (as if you need it).
@Batcabbage: While I appreciate the kind words, I'm expecting recaps from Teebore and Humanebean myself; that said, I don't think lobbying is really appropriate and the most important thing is really just to have some kind of kickoff post up there so that we can all do our thing in the Comments section. Nikki is irreplaceable, not that you intimated in any way otherwise.
VW: equal ... Really? What is with Blogger lately? Okay, if it were not already a real word... um... The centaur version of the guy who took over Arnold's on Happy Days. Look, I'm hungry and thinking is hard.
I'm am now a teacher in NY and taught for 20 years in Texas. I'm not unfamiliar with the profession. All I originally said was "What kind of credential does Locke have?" The answer is "We don't know".
"What kind of credential does Locke have?" The answer is "We don't know".
Yeah, after all that, that's about the long and the short of it. :)
Mr. Crawford: Greetings, baby.
Joan: Ooh.
Mr. Crawford: I think it behooves us to relocate this soirée to the boudoir so as to facilitate subsequent amorous escapades.
Joan: Mm-hmm. How... How was work today, honey?
Mr. Crawford: Considerable progress was effected across multiple platforms before wholly unexpected and egregious-- .
Joan: *gasp*
Mr. Crawford: -- disruption of the proceedings resulted in a premature interregnum.
Joan: [untranslatable]
@Teebore and Blam
You both had really interesting theories about why Kate's name wasn't on the wall, and they kind of tie-in together, which I thought was very cool. The idea of Kate being 108—a 108 that Not Locke knows or doesn't know about—and the idea that Kate might be a wild card that Jacob touched without Not Locke's knowledge are very cool ideas, and give me something to ponder.
I am very, very old school, and so the idea of rewinding a PVR, or pausing my TV just don't exist for me. Hahaha, so thanks to everyone who listed the other names on the wall, because I really wanted to know.
The boy was interesting. Is it young Jacob? That's sort of what I was thinking while watching the episode, but after reading the comments I see that he could have been a great number of people.
Seeing Richard unhinged—I didn't like it. It makes me feel really unsettled.
Seeing faithless Locke in Alt Reality—I really, really didn't like it. I was sad for him—things just kept happening that sucked, and I felt like I was doing the Locke that we know and love a disservice by feeling sad for him. The real Locke would yell at me, "Don't feel sad for me, and don't tell me what I can't do"
Then Not Locke went and yelled that very mantra, and I started to feel sad for him—oh brother! LOL
@Blam: Understood. Comment deleted. Sorry about that.
paleoblues: I wasn't attacking you. We don't do that here. :) I think everyone was just offering their experiences too...which I thought was really cool actually, because it's neat to compare different states' requirements for teaching. In MA, the licensure requirements are pretty stringent (and can be a pain in the ass for relicensure) so I like seeing what other states have....just in case I have to move. LOL!!
You're right, we don't know. But it's fun to speculate. Isn't that what we do every week? LOL
@Jazzygirl: Actually I wasn't responding to what YOU said. It had to do with something else.
Did you notice? On the dry erase board over Locke's right shoulder in the classroom was a list entitled "The beginning of the life cycle". On the island Locke instructed Charlie on the life cycle of the moth. He also knows something about babies.
Also, in the teacher's lounge as Ben was throwing away the coffee filter there was a sign over the wastebasket "Teachers touch lives forever". Who else do we know that touches people?
And, yes, island Locke was an excellent instructor/educator and I will assume LA X Locke will be also. I have total respect for the guy's intelligence and knowledge whether he went to college or not. I was just curious.
Verf: calme .... help me settle down!
No, I didn't notice those things! I am going to rewatch it in a few minutes and will certainly look for them! There's lots of things mentioned on here I have to look for. But I LOVE the whole thing about touching lives. Hmmm....
I don't know if we can assume things like Richard's personal timeline in relation to the Island sinking and meeting young Locke, on an Island where time travel is possible.
When Locke enters the teacher's lounge there is a lady sitting at a table writing that looks really familiar to me, have we seen her somewhere else or am I confusing her with a different show?
I am beginning to wonder if Dogen is the Temple version of Ben Linus. It was that line by teacher-Ben that tea is a gentleman's drink. On island, we see Dogen pouring Jack a cup of tea. Is there a connection? I suspect. We know Dogen is capable of lying--he lied to Sayid that nothing was wrong with him. Also he tried to manipulate Jack into giving Sayid the poison pill--a very Ben thing to do. So don't rule it out, just because Dogen seems so Zen and mysterious. He really could be a version of "He's our you." i.e. another Ben Linus. (The only difference I think is Dogen seems to have met Jacob--there was talk that Jacob comes to the Temple. So unlike Ben, maybe Dogen knows more about what is going on. The islanders outside the Temple, like Richard and Ben, always seem to be in the dark about things. How odd).
Also in the teacher's lounge, as Locke shakes Ben's hand, there is a banner under the windows that reads "Live in the present, plan for the future".
@paleoblues There's also a sign in the faculty room along one wall that says "live in the present".
I'm a little confused--I cannot remember when or where, but was there not a point when someone (was it Tom?) said that Shephard wasn't on the list? That said, is the engraving that list, and why is Jack on it?
Am I losing my mind with this recollection?
To Nikki and all the commenters - Fab as usual!
The MIB seemed to lightly lick his hand when the whiskey Sawyer handed him splashed out of the glass. Was he trying to remember the taste or remember the enjoyment of it back when he was a man like Sawyer with feelings and hopes and dreams? That's what I got from it anyhow!!
Yes, Sawyer and his boxers did look like they both could use a good scrubbing!!
So, Jacob was confirmed as the puppet-master of all the lives he's literally touched and that Richard and all the Others have been blindly following him all this time without questioning anything. He must have promised them something, but what? Sawyer very quickly jumped up and followed NotLocke when he was promised answers to why he was on the island. I have believed Jacob = bad from first meeting him but this was the serpent's ploy in the Bible - Adam and Eve were warned about the serpent but he promised them knowledge and we know how that story ends. So now I'm having doubts about who's 'right' and who's 'wrong', if there is an either-or.
@anonymous (tanyam) -" I'm beginning to think there is no "good" or "bad " side to the game. Just rules." This is a nice, succinct way to put it!
@anonymous - I had the same thought that maybe only males can be candidates. The name Littleton in the cave could destroy that theory unless it means Aaron maybe? And he's crossed out cuz he's off the island? Don't know! But I love that people have picked out so many other names from the cave - gotta go back and look for some of the less obvious ones!
@sonshine music - I asked the same question about why John scored a proper burial and Bram and friends only got blankets thrown over their heads! And the graveyard definitely was a long way from the Foot - if not, wouldn't the Beachies have seen it long ago? Didn't Sayid/Sun/Jin see it from the sailboat when they were supposedly going to the other side of the island? I know the island gives superhuman strength but carrying a dead-weight Locke so far would be exhausting, and Ilana looked like she was barely sweating!
Yes, Randy is still an ass in any reality! The actor is so believable at being a 'huge douche' too!
@Fred - "Next week, will Walt appear in Locke's class? And will he call him, Mr. Locke?" Hahaha! That would be so awesome!
Also am liking the theories about Jacob's ashes=Phoenix rising and the oneness of Jacob and MIB, them being two sides of one coin.
I love Hugo large and in charge!
@studiorose - You mentioned not liking MIB making the inside joke about the stones - I get that and also didn't like the rehash of Jacob touching everyone. I understand most casual viewers need a review of events but not us!!!
Hi, long time reader, first time commenter. I really think this is the best Lost blog on the net and it's always my first stop after each new episode!
I've read through the comments and I don't think this has been touched upon. When the interviewer/ex-psychic is interviewing Locke, one of the questions she asks him is along the lines of 'which animal do you identify with?'. According to the 'Mysteries of the Universe' expose of the DHARMA Initiative from the Season 5 DVD, this is one of the questions asked in interviews for potential DI members. Is this just an inside joke for the fans or could the DI still exist in some capacity (off island obviously) in the ALT timeline?
I hope Jacob has another ladder...upon rewatch, I remembered that Sawyer broke the second ladder. How do they get back up and out of the cave?
I'm also thinking back to NotLocke chasing the boy through the jungle on foot. Perhaps he didn't want Sawyer to see him as Smokey. At least not yet.
When Ilana, Sun, Ben and Lapedis bring Locke back to the Losties graveyard, it struck me how far away that is from the statue. Wouldn't that have taken at least half a day or more? I will have to go back to "The Incident" to figure it out, but it seems to be quite a trek when earlier in the day everyone was so worried about MIB and all the chaos ensued with the flare from the temple and all. I would have thought they would have beaten a quick path to the temple. But it was very honorable of them to do that for Locke. I loved seeing Ben in his undershirt working so hard performing manual labor. All for Locke.
@Blam - Hooooo! I can't believe you are allowed to keep that kind of talk up here! I totally saved that text so I can read it, you know, alone. :D
VW: Aquarac
Pretty sure this name was kicked around for the "Water Bra".
Hey, everyone! Just got my blog for The Substitute done!
Enjoy!
http://sagaciouspenguin.blogspot.com/2010/02/lost-where-are-we-603-substitute.html
Now I gotta catch up on comments here... :)
Frazer good catch on the Dharma question!
@Frazer
Very cool observation! Wouldn't that be wild? But in ALT reality, the island is underwater, right? So, does that mean that the DI never happened?
No, no, wait. The island would have sank in 1977, right? So, the DI would have happened, then been evacuated—so maybe in ALT reality they've moved their operations to the so-called mainland.
Innnnnteresting:)
@ Frazer & Jenn -- Heh... The thought of Hurley owning the Dharma Initiative is joy inducing...
@Sagacious Penguin
Can you imagine? "And Mr. Reyes, what kind of animal would you be?"
"A polar bear, dude! Duh!"
I'm with the theories going around that Sawyer is doing a long con, and is hip to NoLocke's game. He may not know what MIB is up to, but Sawyer is no dummy, and he can spot being conned a mile away.
At least I hope so. He's a character that I didn't like in the beginning, and have grown to love. LOVE! I would love to see him turn out to be the ultimate "Good" guy.
Love you guys! Love this blog! love LOST!
.02 added,
Mama Lost
AmbivalentMan:
I think the Nemesis is lying to Sawyer, just not in totality. He wants to leave the Island for a very specific reason. And when he says Jacob was protecting the Island from "nothing," I think that "nothing" is the Nemesis. A candidate will need to rise as leader to ensure the Nemesis stays trapped for the safety of...mankind?"
Ooooh...this makes sense. I've always kind of seen the two )MIB and J) as two sides to a coin - i"m kind of a Daoist that way - but it would make sense that part of J's whole mission is to keep Smokey on the island, where he is 'contained.' There are many gifts on the island (spontaneous healing, etc), but as always there is the balance of dark with light.
Mama Lost
"Inside the cave is a scale with one white rock, one black one. Bigger versions of the small rocks inside Adam and Eve’s pouch. Also, the Egyptian god Anubis would weigh the hearts of the dead on a scale as they were preparing for the afterlife."
well, i've solved the puzzle of young bloody hands kid: it's the scales, or Ma'at in the Egyptian conception: the balancing point between light/dark, good/evil, black/white, faith/science, etc. the keeper of balance and weigher of souls. or in this case, reminder of island "rules."
I listened to Jorge Garcia's podcast tonight on this episode and it was hilarious and the best part? He is just as confused as WE are about the plot! LOL! His theories are very similar to ours and it's comforting that he's clueless too! Also, one of the first things he says in the podcast for this episode is something about Sawyer's dirty underwear...he says "I can't wait to ask Josh about that!" LOL! It's under Geronimo Jacksbeard's blog. The podcasts are long, like 45 min but very entertaining.
Holact:
Back in 2004, another corpse was in another plane that crashed on the island : Christian's. So I think MiB used to be stuck in Christian's body and appeared as such to candidates he was trying to recruit : Jack, Locke, Claire... I guess this is one of the grand game's rules : MiB (and Jacob too?) gets to inhabit the body of someone who arrives dead on the island. And is stuck in it until the next corpse arrives."
Whoa! I love this, and it also makes sense. Claire was with Christian in the cabin, I believe it was - and it has been made clear she has been 'claimed.' So MIB being in Christian's body would make sense. A lot of sense. (So rare in LOST!)
This makes me wonder if the MIB gets to go off island to 'recruit' for his team in the game as well - which would mean he had a hand in Christian evolving into the dead alcoholic's body that was on that plane. And he influenced Claire as well to end up where she did... if this is a Big Game, then it is only worth playing if both team's have some equal ability to gather forces.
Ths would also account (I think, I could be so far off) for the Others being so concerned about who is with them or not - who is claimed by MIB, and who is a candidate via Jacob.
hmmmmmmm...
Mama Lost
When Sawyer sees 23 - SHEPHARD on the wall, and asks "Shephard...that'd be Jack Shephard?", MIB says "He's not the only one."
We're led to believe that MIB means "he's not the only name not crossed out" or "he's not the only name you'll recognize", just because MIB proceeds to turn Sawyer's attn to the other names. Couldn't he mean "he's not the only Shephard"?
Tell me if I'm crazy, but when I watch that snippet again, interpreting it as "not the only Shephard", it WORKS for me. MIB's tone of voice is different. Maybe I'm reading meaning where it doesn't exist...i don't even know what it would mean, exactly...but given that Christian['s reanimated body] is playing a role in all this that still isn't fully explained, I wonder if MIB might be referring to Christian here.
((new follower!!! love the blog!!!))
p.s. to my earlier comment: I forgot to include that Saza & a few others had brought up that possibility - Shephard referring to Christian - earlier in the thread. Thanks for getting me thinking :)
ALSO, on the subject of last names...Jacob's cave-list being in this format, last names only, reminds me that the Others around Season3ish always seemed to refer to certain survivors by their last name only. The only moment when that seemed particularly weird to me was in Through the Looking Glass, when Tom & Pickett have Sayid, Jin, and Bernard at gunpoint and Tom tells Ben they have "Jarrah, Kwon, and the dentist". This always seemed weird and it would make sense if they're working off a master list that Bernard's not on.
of course, going down that rabbit-hole, Pickett said earlier that season that "Shephard isn't on Jacob's list", referring to Jack, which could back up the other idea about 23 being Christian (or at least not Jack)...but it couldn't be that easy, could it?
(could also explain why Pickett thought he was such hot stuff, and why the Others had to keep his dumb ass around & employed, given that his name's on the list...stupid Pickett i hate that guy)
Now the slow march through the comments finally begins.
studiorose: Am I the only one that really disliked the "inside joke" line? It destroyed credibilty.
If the line were only directed at the viewing audience, I might agree with you, but both the real Locke and Lockalike have a history with such stones. Locke handled small ones early on, telling Walt (and the viewers, in foreshadowy dialogue) about the two sides, one white and one black. Jacob and Esau/Lockalike have been representing or represented by these stones for (maybe literally) only God knows how long. So for him to toss Jacob's white stone into the ocean, especially if he's been tired of what he perceives as this little game for eons, was tremendously cathartic for him but still just symbolic, and utterly insignificant to James/Sawyer, so the "inside joke" line was his way of acknowledging that within the context of the story; to me, the tossing of the stone into the ocean wasn't so much the inside joke to fans as was the actual line "inside joke". So meta, yes, but breaking the fourth wall, no, at least not from my perspective.
@ Trace - Maybe I'm reading meaning where it doesn't exist...i don't even know what it would mean, exactly.
Haha! This is pretty much how I feel about all of Lost.
Minna: [W]hy is Ben alive in the AU?
This is a good question. You're right that we don't know he was on the sub, but I think the working assumption by most of us is that, if we see him in the AU, he was — just like Ethan must have been. Chang did call for the evac of all women and children. It's also possible, though, that the AU branched off earlier than the equivalent date of the Jughead-core detonation for whatever reason; that doesn't seem to make sense, within the parameters most of us are imagining, but (Surprise!) we don't have all the information.
...
VW: hespo — Why he cain't afford it.
@ Blam - I'm with you on the stones line. I take it he and Jacob acknowledge and enjoy the little black/white thing they've got going on.
And regarding Ben being alive in the AU, I see it as proof that the H-bomb didn't immediately sink the Island. Even if it detonated, remember that it's power was diminished by Sayid removing the core from its casing. It certainly would have caused devestation, but I'm guessing plenty people had a chance to get off the island - Ben and Widmore included. Remember, for all we know, Ben was still with the Others at this time.
Verification Word: Larcel - A package which has committed the crime of theft.
Susan: Blam I agree with you about the writers bringing everyone together soon. When you think about it, they haven't been together in a big group since the end of season 3 right before Des & Charlie went to the Looking Glass and most of the rest went to the tower.
Wow. You're right. I know that folks were itching for the Oceanic 6 to get back to the Island, and then last year for them to rejoin the time-tossed Left Behind bunch after the Ajira flight went down, and then for all of the 1977 bunch to meet up with the Ajira castaways who remained in 2007, but I hadn't really put that all together.
...
VW: frechi — almost one of the Pink Ladies...
A random thought: I want so badly for Sawyer to meet Locke in the AU just so we can hear him call Locke "Professor X". I'm still surprised he never referred to Young Dharma Ben as "Harry Potter" (to what would be the utter bewilderment of Young Dharma Ben). OMG! Can you imagine what would happen if the two universes' Sawyers meet?
Sonshine Music: Is this proof that my bizarre hunch of Cooper not actually being his father is true?!
Not so bizarre... This was my first thought (or maybe my second, after "Whoa!") when Helen mentioned Locke's dad. As far as I know, which is not very far, Cooper was only confirmed to be Locke's father during one of those Extra! Bonus! Caption! repeats or maybe one of the recap clip shows, so it might not be 100% verified.
Sagacious Penguin: And regarding Ben being alive in the AU, I see it as proof that the H-bomb didn't immediately sink the Island. Even if it detonated, remember that it's power was diminished by Sayid removing the core from its casing. It certainly would have caused devestation, but I'm guessing plenty people had a chance to get off the island
That's a good point. Since the only "aftermath" of the detonation we saw was the main protagonists transported to 2007 in the Original Universe and the objectively random (but narratively understandable) no-longer-[as]-fateful Flight 815 in the AU in 2004, we don't know what happened in either OU 1977 or AU 1977 after Juliet set off the Jughead core. Very probably there was, as you say, a not entirely devastating explosion at the Swan site and perhaps a resultant Island-quake from the electromagnetic core being disturbed — all utterly confusing to everyone on the Island, since there were no time-tossed versions of our main protagonists in AU 1977 to have caused all that, only the effects of the OU 1977 actions having been shunted over there.
VW: pesto — Dang, Blogger! Not only real worlds, but my least favorite pasta sauce (after Aunt Joan's Marinara with Paint Chips)?
real worlds
Should be "real words", of course, but a funny typo all things considered...
@ Blam -- The funny thing is, I read "real words" the first time... creepy!
Verification Word: Sesteodi - a hideous verification word.
@Nikki - you said: "Here the mini-Jacob tells Not-Locke that he knows he can’t kill him. Does this mean that Jacob is only merely dead, and is NOT most sincerely dead?"
I had a completely different take on what jungle boy said to unLocke and after reading 133 comments so far, I didn't see anyone else mention it.
I think when jungle boy says "You can't kill him", he was referring to Sawyer not Jacob since Jacob was already dead. That is why he shows up in the jungle as unLocke and Sawyer are walking along. I think the rules say the MIB and Jacob cannot kill each other or the replacement candidates. Jungle boy suspects unLocke plans to find a way to kill Sawyer and is reminding him that he can't because Sawyer is a candidate.
UnLocke understands the rules. He just doesn't want anyone reminding him. Of course, unLocke has already found a way to get around the rules. Ben was the loophole he used to kill Jacob. I also believe unLocke set up/used Ben as a loophole to kill Locke since Locke was also a candidate and could not be killed directly by unLocke. (Maybe that's why Locke wasn't afraid when the smoke monster grabbed him in the season 1 finale. He told Jack to let him go that he would be all right. Perhaps he sensed that Smokey couldn't/wouldn't kill him.)
Now, if Sawyer had fallen from the cliff ladder to his death, unLocke would not have had a direct hand in his death (another loophole?), but I think at that point, unLocke had decided Sawyer would be more valuable if he could recruit him as an ally than as a dead candidate; so he saved him instead.
Sagacious Penguin: I just can see Jacob groaning and crossing poor Horace off the list after that middle-of-the-night drunken dynamite-tossing-at-trees binge...
Ha! Also funny: I recall surmising back then that Horace might've been possessed by Smokey at that point, even if he didn't know it. (The speculation made sense at the time.)
...
VW: porepoo What those who are truly full of crap sweat out. [Sorry.]
Another random thought: Do you suppose AU Ben has pet bunnies and isn't really sure why he gets the urge to shake them now and then?
Batcabbage: Oy! I just read your mea culpa (out of order). The intentions are appreciated, but you really didn't have to go and delete your message.
Batkitty and I have been sitting here without putting anything else on the dvd player (we're addicted to watching TV and movies) discussing the episode and reading Nik's post out loud.
Your place sounds like fun. Want a roomie? I'd hate to cramp your love-nest style, but I'm looking for a new place and I've always wanted to visit Down Under.
I immediately thought of Amy and her dead-Dharma-guy-whose-name-I-can't-remember-now.
Paul? I think it was Paul. Ha! And he had an ankh! Were any of us making Paul Anka jokes at the time? Seems like I'd have remembered that...
Kid Jacob.
I love this. Jacob, Kid Jacob... When do we see Ms. Jacob, the Golden Age Jacob, and the Jacob of 2065? [Again, comics-fans-only joke.]
Batkitty and I went back after watching the episode and made very good use of the 'pause' button, and checked out all the numbers and names we could make out from the cave ceiling and walls.
Your place sounds like lots of fun. Someone, I think Mr. Penguin, mentioned that he thought he saw Littleton, which if it was there and crossed out is a potentially big comment on Claire. Troup was also mentioned, i.e. Gary Troup, the author of Bad Twin I wonder how many of the other names, especially the ones viewers really have no hope of seeing, are just-for-fun references to the crew and stuff.
VW: shantoss — An edict against throwing things.
Pamalamb: @Blam: Lockalike - love it!
Thanks! As much as I enjoyed using "the Man in Locke" I realized that it was too inapt given that quite a few folks still forget that Esau is in Locke's form as opposed to his actual body — which, by the way, raises the potential big question of what this Not-Locke / Lockalike body is: Did he materialize it out of thin air (okay, ambient energy)? Is he really changing states from whatever Smokey consists of to this physical body? Does this body actually have mass and biological innards, as might be evidenced by his falling and breathing hard this past episode, or is it just a virtual simulacrum so impressive that it reacts that way? So anyway "Lockalike" popped into my head, and I Googled it to find that, yes, it's been used out there, so I can't swear that I didn't unintentionally borrow it from someplace I chanced upon.
@Blam: Want a roomie?
LOL! As much fun as that would be, I don't think my house would be able to fit both of our comic collections. Sorry! But please, feel free to visit, anytime (I'm sure Batkitty would give her permission - she's the boss, after all).
...Ms. Jacob, the Golden Age Jacob, and the Jacob of 2065...
Jacob 1,000,000? Crisis on Infinite Jacobs? Oooh, Elseworlds Jacob! You know, where we wouldn't be able to tell if he's good or evil...hmmm. Would the current, visible only to Hurley, dead incarnation of Jacob be Blackest Night Jacob? (Sorry, non-comic fans.)
I wonder how many of the other names, especially the ones viewers really have no hope of seeing, are just-for-fun references to the crew and stuff.
I thought exactly the same thing! And no matter how close I got to the screen, I couldn't make out many of the names.
vw: ingeles - What Rodriguez calls Blackthorne in Shogun. (yes, it's another real world one. Very sloppy, Blogger!)
Karolyn: When we first see mini-Jacob/Aaron/Mystery Kid, his arms are apparently covered with blood and he holds them out to Flocke as if to say "See? This is what has happened/you've done."
Yeah... It's very "sacrificial lamb". (As in "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway"? Maybe this is the Peter Gabriel Genesis Planet.) When we see him next time, though, he's not bloody and not posing, but talking; it took us ages to hear the mysterious apparition of Christian pipe up.
Gillian Whitfield: Can I keep Sawyer for myself? Please? He's really cute, and I've been told that I'm really cute.
That's really cute.
Mike: Apparently Ben takes the place of Charlie for ep 7...but then ep 8 is back on track with Sawyer!
How wild would it be if the flashsideways for that episode dealt with Desmond, Penny, and their little Charlie? I know that whassisname isn't a regular this season, but, boy howdy, that'd be nifty.
asiancolossus: The numbers almost correspond to the Oceanic 6 but except for Sawyer in place of Aaron.
Good point... This brings me back to my not-quite-theory-just-throwing-it-out-there that Claire's baby-daddy might have been a kin of Sawyer's, making Aaron the Ford in question. It's pretty patriarchal to say so, but there was no birth certificate for the kid, so while his last name was presumably Austen out in the real world Aaron had no official last name on the Island other than the implicit Littleton or the possibly also implicit whatever-his-father's-last-name-was.
Joan Crawford: I shake my fists in jealousy and in more than a little bit of admiration at you all!
That's just the detox, Joan.
VW: uncest — What Boone and Shannon's romp thankfully turned out to be. (Okay, still, stepsibling sex = icky.)
I forgot to mention earlier that I agree with those that said Sawyer could see jungle boy when Richard couldn't because he is a candidate.
I think some of these wall names were mentioned, but some weren't (and since they're hard to read, they not not be all correct):
313 LITTLETON (CLAIRE or AARON?)
90 TROUPE (AS IN GARY "BAD TWIN" TROUPE?)
80 FARADAY (A VOTE FOR DANIEL)
10 MATTINGLEY
283 JONES
317 CUNNINGHAM (MATTINGLEY, JONES, & CUNNINGHAM were the names on the US soldiers uniforms worn by Widmore and friends when they caught Sawyer & Juliet in 1954 I think, not certain though)
222 O'TOOLE
386 GRANT
175 COSTA
271 MALIN
we don't know what happened in either OU 1977 or AU 1977 after Juliet set off the Jughead core.
@Blam - very good point, and one I think will be significant.
I have a weird theory on this. Let's say that chronologically up until the Incident, there was simply one universe, U. Then, either the Jughead destroyed the Swan energy (resulting in AU) or it didn't (resulting in OU). Or more accurately, it destroyed the energy (AU) and it didn't (OU), since both realities are equally real (though separate).
Remember that our timetravellers came from the OU 2000s (the crash reality). They are then present in U 1977 at the moment U becomes OU/AU.
Immediately after the Incident, everything that just existed in U now exists in two versions, an OU version and an AU version. Therefore, I think that immediately after the Incident, there's an OU version of the timetravellers and an AU version of the timetravellers. No matter which version, they originally came from OU 2000s; but they were present at the doubling of realities in U 1977 and therefore were doubled themselves.
I think that the timetravellers who show up in OU 2007, who we're following on-island now, must be the ones who experienced the AU Incident. In the AU, the plan worked. Landing back in the same universe they came from, OU, made them think that it hadn't worked, but if the plan hadn't worked, why would they have gone anywhere?
Then there's the ones who experienced the OU Incident. You know, where the plan didn't work, because the energy pocket is still around in 2004. The plan didn't work, so this version of the timetravellers didn't go anywhere. Those dudes are SCREWED with Dharma, and probably the Others too. (Richard: "don't ask me, all i know is they took our bomb, and uh they knocked out poor Eloise here too") I think that this is the version of the survivors that Richard saw die.
I swear I can explain all this pretty convincingly. But I srsly started typing in this tiny box about an hour and a half ago and now i think i have a nosebleed and i'm not allowed to have chocolate before OOH FERRIS WHEEL get coffee sometime GRXrxRXRYXk.
...snKRnrnXss--Wait! I have to tell you something, it's really really important.
And it's a haiku.
Obviously, hon,
box of knives means "walkabout".
Why, what did you think?
Why are people claiming Shephard could refer to Jack, Christian, or Aaron? I don't think there's any way that Aaron's last name is Shephard. It should be Littleton, just like his mom, Claire. I would also wager that only men can assume the roles of Jacob and MiB. The five remaining uncrossed off names are Jack Shephard, Hugo Reyes, James Ford, Jin Kwon, and Sayid Jarrah. 313-Littleton refers to Aaron Littleton.
CBP68: All those years and Jacob only thought about Flight 815?
I might be misunderstanding you, but I figured all those other names in the cave were from previous arrivals on the Island, not all from Flight 815. Which makes the apparently haphazard application of numbers that much stranger, granted.
Tanyam: [M]aybe ALL of the candidates have to die all at once in order for MIB to finally leave the island?
Kind-of like breaking the seals, hmm? Interesting.
Teebore: One of the things I noticed last night is that while Jacob and his disciples (the Others) reveal little by saying little, Flocke seems to reveal little by saying a lot.
Very nicely said... And it's true that we don't know how much of his soliloquy was even true, although it seemed heartfelt if not dual-purposed in being both honest and designed to elicit Sawyer's companionship.
VW: unglatin — A retranslation back from piglatin.
Joshua Kachner: Why are people claiming Shephard could refer to Jack, Christian, or Aaron? I don't think there's any way that Aaron's last name is Shephard. It should be Littleton, just like his mom, Claire. I would also wager that only men can assume the roles of Jacob and MiB.
I haven't made it through all the comments, but for myself I'll answer that I'm not claiming, just supposing — and I don't even think it's that likely. Although if the Rules chauvinistically state that only men can assume the Island duo's roles, then they could just as chauvinistically assume that Claire's last name "should" have been Shephard, like her father; of course, if that's the case, Aaron wouldn't be a Shephard or a Littleton but whatever his father's last name was, like maybe Ford.
Trace: I'm fading fast, but that is Grade-A, top-notch stuff. Wow. Awesomesauce on top of sweet muffins.
Maybe just a monkey wrench, but what about names of people who are associated with the island but were not on the cave wall. Like Desmond. Ms Hawking said going to the island was Desmond's destiny. But all he did was push a button. In other words, he was never brought there by Jacob, but by the island. If we take Dogen at his word, that everyone was brought there, then Desmond is really the wild card.
Likely as not some of the other names, O'Toole, Costa, Grant etc. are crew from the Black Rock. And if Mattingly, Cunnigham and Jones were brought there by Jacob, then MiB is inflitrating the Others to get them to kill off all possible candidates. It's very possible Richard has not been getting his orders from Jacob (whether he knows this or not) but has form MiB.
Hypothetically, Jughead did cause the side-world, but the effect is not just from that moment, like a fork in the road, but causally retroactive--the effect like a wave drifts backward in time. There is in physics the idea of retroactive causation, but only at the quantum level. If so, then when we get to Sawyer's flashsideways, we may see he never killed Duckett in Australia because Cooper never was the conman we've seen (afterall Helen wants to invite him to the wedding). This certainly hinges on Cooper being Locke's father. So far everyone of the surviors has been their opposite type: Hurley is lucky rather than cursed; Jack is fearful, rather than assured; Locke is happy and does not believe in destiny. In the island world Sawyer is a conman with a distrust of other people, so his opposite would be more trusting and see the good in people. I can only hope so. Afterall, Ben is an introverted, nerd, and not the Machivellian manipulator we've known.
Me: I still don't get why people assume that ship was The Black Rock
Teebore: Personally, I blame it on narrative convenience. ... And, in Nikki's defense, she didn't say it was the Black Rock; she simply used the style of the ship as an indication of the time Jacob and Esau were in when it appeared, which, Black Rock or not, I think is a fair assumption.
Okay. I was gonna say more, but it boils down to me seeing your point, and I'm tired. 8^)
Brian Douglas: Or did he only get stuck after killing Jacob?
Teebore: I bet that's it. Killing Jacob changed the rules, and that somehow "locked" Smokey into that form (pun intended).
Although, here, I still disagree, admittedly without having rewatched the scene since last night. The way I heard it was Ilana saying that Actual John Locke was stuck in his own dead body and there was nothing more to be done for him. I didn't take her line as referring to Esau as Lockalike until reading the comments here, which definitely have me in numbers.
VW: hytted — Whatt thy rackett hast done to the bawll.
I've read all the posts, so I don't think this question has been discussed (apologize if it has), but WHY is the MIB still on the island? One would think that, right after he killed Jacob, the very next thing the MIB would have done was head to that home he wants so desperately to get back to since Jacob, the force that we're led to believe has been keeping him there, is gone. Presumably he's been thinking for a LONG time about how to get home, and would have a plan involving a boat or something. But instead, first the MIB beats up Alpert in an attempt at charming Alpert into going with him, and then he goes to work on Sawyer. Why does the MIB need a person or (maybe in future episodes, persons) to get off the island? Does he need Sawyer's body? Does everyone on the island need to be dead before he can leave (hinted at by Alpert when he was telling Sawyer to run away from the MIB), but it would violate some rule for MIB to kill the island inhabitants himself, so he's going to try to turn Sawyer into his henchman? What is holding the MIB on the island?
When I first saw the cave with the names on the walls and ceiling I thought of the chessboard season 6 promo that played about a month ago. One of the lines in that Promo was something like "One by one the pieces (players?) are put back into the box." My first thought when I saw the crossed off names was that those were the players who had been put back in the box and were now out of play. Not necessarily because they died (Clare and Aaron are not dead) just out of play.
Today I gave this idea some more thought and came up with this idea. Jacob and MIB began this game long long ago and as it continued on without end MIB got tired of it and wanted it to end, but Jacob would not allow that. MIB has been trying since then to find a way out. At first both would bring players to the island, but after MIB decided he didn't want to play anymore he stopped bringing people. That's why he was so angry in the first scene of "The Incident" -- Jacob keeps bringing people to continue the game. The cave is like a game room for both of them. The two rocks represent their main playing pieces (I don't think the white and black have any good or evil meanings - just two sides of the game). The scale shows who is winning and losing. Both MIB and Jacob write the names of their players on the wall and ceiling. In chess when you capture your opponents piece you get to move it off the board out of play. I think that's what the crossed off names are. MIB and Jacob get to cross off the names of the other person's players when they have been able to eliminate them. If this is true then MIB crossing out Locke's name means Locke was one of Jacob's players. I think MIB's story to Sawyer about the names being people Jacob was trying to manipulate and bring to the island to find his possible replacement was a lie.
MIB's having Jacob killed was just another attempt of his to end the game. the only problem is that there are still players out there so the game cannot end. Teebore, I think your idea of MIB needing to kill all of those still listed on the ceiling to end the game, ties in to this idea perfectly and I think he plans on trying to use Sawyer to accomplish this. Someone mentioned early on in the comments that Sawyer might be beginning a long con on MIB -- that would be so awesome, and I hope it's true -- after all Sawyer is the one person who recognized that MIB was not the really Locke, who better to con MIB.
One question I do have though is the significance of this game. Is it just meaningless play or is there some greater significance for mankind? -- time will tell, I hope!
Earlier it was mentioned that MIB being studk in the form of Locke now was because of Jacob being killed. I think that this is probably likely since prior to this he has appeared in many forms. The question I have is how does Ilana know all of this? Everytime someone asks her a question she seems to have an answer. Where is she getting all her information?
You heard it here first ... Sawyer is making/doing another long con. Believe me - he has an angle. He misses nothing. And he was brought to the island for a reason and it wasn't to be a pawn in a game.
I would like to tie together 3 comments that leapt off the computer monitor and smacked me between the eyes.
@asiancolossus: You noted that ANYTHING is possible in the parallel universe. I couldn’t agree more.
@Pamalamb: I love your idea that John Locke in the parallel universe may have been adopted (every foster child/orphan’s dream). So Anthony Cooper would have no place in John’s life.
And @Lisa(until further notice): By the same token, maybe Ben’s mother didn’t die in childbirth, and Roger Linus was an involved and devoted father. These are HUGE changes! They would easily explain how very different John and Ben turned out in the parallel universe.
Several people have mentioned this, and I am intrigued by the notion that Sawyer is in the midst of another long con. If the whole thing is a game, he might win it.
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