First, let's just take a closer look at this.
All together now!
They're creepy and they're kooky, mysterious and spooky
They're all together ooky, the Littleton Family
Their house is a museum, where people come to see em
They really are a scre-um, the Littleton Family!
Dadadadum! Neat!
Dadadadum! Sweet!
Dadadadum, dadadadum, dadadadum! Petite!
Good cripes, that's the stuff of nightmares, people. I'm kind of thankful that my screen was as pixelated as it was last Tuesday night... Ack. As to what kind of animal it was, my initial instinct was that it was a baby polar bear (and Claire caught it in one of her bear traps) but someone else suggested it was a wild boar and she's hacked the tusks off, and that's a definite possibility, as well. As for those who have said it was Vincent (gah!) I don't think that looks like a dog's skull to me.
Anyway, here are a couple of other things that jumped out at me:
• Jack tells his mom the coffin was last checked through Berlin. I wonder if there's any significance to Christian's coffin being spotted (or not) in Germany?
• David goes to St. Mary's school. St. Mary is how Christians refer to Mary, the mother of Christ.
• Jin's leg: GACK. I definitely didn't see what that looked like. Blech.
• The explosives in Claire's tent looked new. They didn't look like the gunky ones from the Black Rock that Rousseau had been using.
• As someone mentioned in the comments on my original post, it would appear that Claire didn't time jump, and instead seemed to be part of the island. Otherwise, how would all of her stuff had stayed with her when they jumped back?
• I mentioned during the Globe chat that the reason they had to remind us of Adam and Eve was for the millions of viewers who don't obsess over every little detail, who haven't thought of Adam and Eve for 5 years, and who will need a quick reminder for when they have the big reveal later in the season. And then tonight, as Hurley said, "Dude, I'd forgotten about them" my husband says to me, "Who the hell are they?" I laughed out loud and wrote down, "MY HUSBAND IS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE." Heehee...
• Jack tells Hurley about Christian dying and losing the coffin... is the AU affecting the people on the island, because suddenly people are opening up to each other in a way they NEVER did before.
• People pointed out that in the AU Jack was on the straight and narrow and not drinking anything, but that's not completely true; he comes home with a pizza for him and David and a 6-pack of tall beer cans... and I'm presuming the latter wasn't for David.
• I mentioned that the key is under the stone rabbit, but it's actually a white rabbit... again, a more direct reference to episode 1.05 (that and the Alice reference clinched it).
• There's a Meat Coat poster on David's wall; in the episode where Drive Shaft is in the "Butties" commercial, that's the band the director says he really wanted in the commercial instead.
• Does David not pick up his messages? His answering machine was flashing, and the second message was Jack telling him that something had happened and he wanted to hear his voice. If he'd picked up the message, it wouldn't have still been flashing. Has David not heard it yet?
• Jack's comment that he was broken and he thought the island could fix him was a really poignant line, I thought. This is a guy who always tries to fix everything, and now he's putting himself in the hands of something else to fix him... and it didn't work.
• Claire's "branding" looks a lot like the scar that the hot poker made on Sayid... did Dogen burn her in the same way to see if she was infected?
• David is at the "Williams" conservatory. I don't know if there's any significance to that name, but I wonder if it'll become significant the way "Widmore" did after we saw it written on everything.
• I totally didn't see the Temple where Jin and Sun were married and the church where little Sawyer buried his parents on the Lighthouse mirrors until now. Presumably the dial was moving past their numbers, but Jin and Sun are 42 and Ford is 15, so it would have had to pass through 23 and 16 first. Why did they flash at the higher numbers? Interesting that both of those places are where Jacob touched them. Does this mean he actually touched Jack earlier, when Jack was a boy at that house?
• I thought it was significant that it's a telescope that Jack uses to destroy the mirrors. It's like he used something used for seeing things far away that he uses to ruin something he saw close up.
• Many people emailed me to tell me what happened in the final 2 minutes of the episode (and thank you!) but what I found most significant was that Jin moved into a manipulation mode in a big way. That's huge for him, I thought (I mentioned this in the comments, but I don't know how many people are still reading those). Have we ever seen him manipulate anyone like that? Even when he worked for Paik he was just following orders and never used it back.
• How did Jin know there was a secret way back into the Temple?
• On the dial I saw Faraday, Linus, and Austen (Austen wasn't crossed out). Also Lewis, and Wallace was #108 as many had pointed out. Last week we saw Mattingly, this week I saw Rodriguez. Did Jacob have a thing for the Yankees? I also saw "Stanhope" on there. Harper Stanhope was Goodwin's wife, the psychiatrist who threatened Juliet.
And those are the extra things I noticed on a second watch! Wow, I wish this is one I'd seen in high def the first time around, but I'm really grateful I was able to watch it at all! :)
53 comments:
I find it interesting that many people seem to assume the cave, and the numbers on the walls are also Jacob's - just because that's what UnLocke said.
I think the cave belongs to UnLocke/Smokey, and the Lighthouse is Jacob's. What this means? Heck, I dunno.
Mama Lost
I also thought it was odd that Jin knew there was a secret way into the temple. I mean he hadn't even been there that long before he left with Kate.
I thought I'd put this here. I had it on the other thread, but it's now way over 200, so unlikely to get read. Here goes:
Just a random thought, but Desmond's mural in the Swan contains the image of an eye, with M SICK--could this be a hint that the island is sick? Locke said he looked "into the eye of the island" and if we take his word at face value, then we might interpret the image of the eye in the mural as being the island's. But why might the island be sick?
Claire's concern that if anything will get you it is infection, may be a clue. Essentially the island is infected, and it is this which is causing the problems with fertility on the island. So far we've been introduced to the idea of sickness as something coming from outside and against which Desmond had been told to innoculate himself. The quarantine sign on the inside of the Swan and Arrow also comment on the idea of infection/sickness as pervasive among the inhabitants. Yet, in this season, the infection is reformulated as metaphysical, as if infection is a personification of evil which seeps into the heart destroying the individual.
We have also seen infection as auto-disease. Cancer on Ben's spine, the appendix in Jack. Pursuing a yin-yang model of balance, the island can be said to be out of balance, and is suffering from a disease much as Ben or Jack did. In these two cases, the need of a surgeon was required to remove the infected organ or cancer. Over the course of the seasons, we have seen how Dharma has been treated as an infection, first in the Purge, and later through Locke's actions destroying physical remnants of their presence: Swan, Flame, sub, and even the Looking Glass was made inoperable by Mikhail.
Turning to Adam and Eve, the Genesis story tells us they were living in Eden, a paradise. Supposedly, the island may have been that paradise, but if so then why are they still in it, if only in bodily form? Having eaten from the tree of knowledge, they were removed from the garden. LOST offers an other possibility, that Adam and Eve, whomever they are on the show, are casualties of the sickness/infection prevalent on the island.
Another example of the infection is the Temple spring, which has clouded and gone murky. When we see Jacob checking it out, it remains murky, indicating the infection is still spread throughout the island. Jacob's instructions to Hurley to take Jack with him to the lighthouse was meant as an attempt to preserve two candidates who might salvage the situation. Whether smashing the mirrors is part of that process is up for grabs. But it seems part of the learning arc Jack is on.
Returning to Claire's infection, we have to wonder how she might reconcile her claim that the Others have Aaron with the mock-up in the crib? The baboon skulled "doll" is a substitute, just as Locke/MiB is a substitute for the original Locke. But Claire can see this Locke as "her friend" and not Locke, a mistkae Jin makes. Clearly then, she can distinguish between the "doll" in the crib and the baby she beleives the Others have. But like Rousseau she is unable to distinguish the passage of time. For Claire the infection has made all time, one time. Claire, in a sense, is living what figures such as MiB and Jacob naturally perceive--timelessness. And that may be one of the clues to the island's sickness/infection, that time is off center (as Faraday noted, the light, a metaphor for time, does not distribute properly on the island).
So if I might take a stab at an idea for the infection, perhaps in the course of bringing people to the island, Jacob introduced some group, most likely Dharma, whose actions affected or infected the island. Perhaps as Radzinsky drilled into the pocket, he inadvertantly created the infection, much as when Jack accidentally nicked the dural sac, spilling out the spinal nerves. Someone has to count to 5 and repair the damage.
In response to Jack not drinking, I really think he was just bringing home soda for him and David. It may have been beer, but I just assumed it was a 6 pack of soda.
Also, it's not like he HASN'T been drinking. He still had that drink on the plane...
Nikki, your comment about Jack's childhood home made me think of something: what if the "Shephard" referenced on the dial is Christian and not Jack? Perhaps Jacob touched Christian long ago and brought him to Australia so that he'd be on the plane that crashed (which didn't exactly work out).
And now that I look at a screencap of the creepy skull, I see that its teeth are nothing like a dog's. Oops - not Vincent. :)
Nikki, this is an unexpected treat, getting a whole other post to gab about as we wait for the next thrilling episode of Lost!
When Jack came home with a pizza and a six-pack, I assumed they were soft drinks. I couldn’t really see what they were, but I never thought “beer”, probably because his son is still a kid.
I’ve got it! I totally know how Jacob touched Jack when he was still living in his parents’ home. Jacob was a UPS driver, and one day he delivered a package that required a signature. When he handed Jack the pen so he could sign, their hands briefly touched. Of course... then... why would he have needed to touch Jack again that day at St. Sebastian's...? Never mind. On second thought, maybe the fact that Christian’s house was seen had to do with Christian, and NOT Jack.
It’s interesting that Jack used a telescope to smash the mirrors. It occurs to me that, with a telescope being a somewhat delicate instrument, it almost certainly got broken at the same time as the mirrors. So the means of both close-up and distant visions were destroyed in the same moment. I don’t know what that means, but as I said, it’s interesting.
And I LOVE that you asked if Jacob has a thing for the Yankees! I don’t know about Jacob, but Damon Lindelof sure does! I don’t claim credit for this at all, but I read it over at Fishbiscuitland this week. In her latest article entitled “Playing For Keeps”, Fishbiscuit laid it all down in a way I really like:
“I guess we all have our favorite fascinating factoid about the Numbers. Mine is this one: All of them are numbers retired by the NY Yankees and all of them sit in Monument Park in the Bronx. Including even Jackie Robinson from Brooklyn, who was so great even his enemy honors him.
4 – Lou Gehrig; 8 – Yogi Berra; 15 – Thurman Munson; 16 – Whitey Ford; 23 – Don Mattingly; 42 – Jackie Robinson
The game of baseball is like one of LOST's secret hidden treasures. It's my favorite kind of Easter Egg. It explains a lot about LOST when you consider that it originated in the mind of a Yankee fan who was also a hardcore Trekkie. It almost makes sense when you think about it.”
And then she included a picture of a smiling Damon Lindelof, wearing his favorite NY Yankees ball cap, and giving the Vulcan “Live long and prosper” salute. It’s better than making sense; it seems almost irrefutable! (And for a bonus, there are 108 stitches on a baseball!)
Oh, yes – there was one other thing in Fishbiscuit’s article that I really enjoyed. Check this out:
“Which six Losties can now also be known as Listies?” Very clever.
Mama Lost, that made me think, too. I suppose that the cave list is the MiB just following Jacob's movements from a distance and taking note of who he is recruiting - but he probably is a little bit behind. That would also explain why he didn't pick up on Kate being 51, unless he's holding back that information to manipulate Sawyer later.
Nikki, I think the Jin's secret way into the temple is where he took Hurley, Jack, Sayid etc. It's the hole where Montand lost his arm. This just gave me an "aha" moment. Rousseau's crew chased SMOKEY into the hole under the Temple wall. That means Smokey has been inside the Temple at some point in the past. Very interesting. And Jacob knows about the hole, because he told Hurley to get Jin to bring him there. Oh,what does it all mean??
And my first thought when I saw Baby Skeletor was that it was a polar bear. Second thought was a boar. Actually my first thought was "WTF???"
I thought Jack had pop with the pizza too. A lot of pizza places sell the pop that way.
Screen cap, anyone? :) It's a very important unanswered question.
Has anyone eny idea how long it is since the losties were taken to the temple ?, is it still hours or days ? The reason i ask is i am wondering why Sun and the Lapidus mob have not turned up there ? , they were on the beach with Ricard and saw the flare go up and it did not look tha far away. We know Lockealike has left them as he's with Sicko Claire and Richard has been seen 'free' when he tried to warn Sawyer....sooooooo why wouldn't they have made their way to temple as it is considered a safe place to be ? (or isn;t it ?). I reckon Claires weird baby is Vincent....RIP.
I think Marebabe might be onto something with 23 being Christian, not Jack. The lighthouse would have shown the hospital if it is in fact showing the places where Jacob touched everyone, but who knows. Also with the Adam and Eve-could Adam be Jack? Jack took the black and white stones from the skeleton and put in his pocket. Is this another time loop like Locke and his compass?
RE: skeletor - in different posts, Lost crew are calling it the squirrel baby. I think it may be a mutant squirrel, but something else they said makes me sure it is not Vincent. I don't think they would do that. It is OK to kill people, but not cuddly animals.
RE: explosives - I also thought it was interesting that Claire's explosives were new. Where did they come from?
RE: alcohol - Though still drinking, I think the whole point with Jack is that he is a normal drinker, not an alcoholic (give me more, give me some every time I have a feeling) drinker. He is shown calmly drinking at home (a really long time after David is MIA, strangely) rather than what he was doing on the plane and in flash forwards in the original timeline. How many times will I need to write a sentence containing "flash forward in the original timeline"?
@Marebabe - thanks for the Yankees reference. Could it be that Damon picked those numbers because of that and COMPLETELY lucked into numbers that add up together to match numbers in a scientific equation? YES. They lucked into ground hog day, and too many other coincidences to mention here. The force is with them.
RE: Fixing – I think that part of Jack’s misguided thinking is that something external could fix him. We are not fixed, because we are not broken. We can be healed – physically, spiritually, and emotionally – because perhaps we are sick. And I think we can all see him getting better, healed through whatever it is he is meant to do on the island. This season is all about redemption. Whether that means our Losties are healed on island, or in the AU or by some convergence of the two, we can expect to see some version of this by the end of the series for each person we cared about.
I don't think we've ever seen Claire this violent either. Between stitching up the wound, and killing Justin (ON-SCREEN) with an axe, she was very violent, but at the same time, she was very cool.
@taprice re: secret way: I think Jin was lying about that to convince Claire to go back to the temple with him so the Others could take her back (the latter she doesn't know about).
CLAIRE'S FRIEND!!!! I wonder if she sees him as the Titus Welliver version from the very beginning of The Incident when MiB is giving Jacob a hard time?
VW: Arther. The misspelling of my favourite show from when I was six years old. Correct spelling: Arthur.
If Wallace at 108 is crossed out, I think it lends credence to the thought that Jacob just wanted them to have to pass by the other numbers so Jack would see his house and flip out. (I don't remember who brought this up on the other thread) I just find the whole lighthouse thing very odd. It's like they threw this whole new device at us simply to have Jack smash it so it can have no further significance. That really bothered me when they only have a few hours left it felt like they spent an entire episode on things that should have only taken up a small part of one.
@Nikki: love your Littleton family song :D hahaha
The Williams Conservatory may be referencing John Williams, one of the greatest film scorers of all time.
The band the director of the Butties commercial wanted was Dirt Spigot. Charlie later tried to convince Liam to come back to Drive Shaft because they had a chance to open for Meat Coat in LA, hence David's poster in LA.
On the alcohol thing: As others have already mentioned, I'm comfortable in assuming that the six-pack Jack brings in with the pizza is soda, because the empty beer on the table (which Jack isn't shown drinking at all) when he calls his son and leaves a message is an empty green bottle, and not a can, like the six pack (unless Jack is one of those dads. "Here, son, down this beer, and then we'll get a couple'a hookers! You're a man today!" A big issue, I know, considering the restraint he shows when he visits his mother (who, when she calls, is so agitated that she can't find the will, that she almost loses her shit; then, miraculously, finds it on a shelf in an envelope marked LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT 30 seconds after Jack got there. Frakking amazing).
I actually think the writers are trying to stretch thing out. They could wrap it all up in a couple of episodes.
I think we can allow Jack to have a beer once in a while without having to be a drunk.
Reprint of my comments from Thurs:
Vincent lovers (myself included) relax. At the risk of sounding like I’m lecturing, the most characteristic/diagnostic feature of a mammalian skull is the dentition. Trust me, if you will (have faith), those are not the teeth of a dog.
Also, Claire (I assume) has taken measures to make the skull look more “human”. The snout has been sawed off (she has surgical instruments) to make the face flatter. And, to me, the neatest thing she has done, is place two buttons or rings on the skull’s forehead facing forward like the eyes of a primate.
And the fact that she has a pile of children’s books by her chair and a pile of toys nearby suggests to me that it is truly a “Psycho” baby. Or maybe it’s Rosemary’s.
Reprint of yesterday's comments after discussing the lighthouse with JS & Teebore:
Using Teebore's excellent channel analogy:
Hurley tells Jack to tell him when he gets to 108. As the pointer passes 108 Jack first sees the “Kwon marriage temple” (Kwon is 42). Jack doesn’t tell him to stop. He sees the image of “Sawyer’s church” (Ford is 15). Jack says stop. They discuss. Hurley continues moving the pointer. When Jack takes over the pointer is down to around 37 and then goes to 23. Passing the “channels” in reverse order (42,23,16,15) Sawyer’s image is out of place and Jarah’s is missing.
Also, they seemed to have been expecting Jacob to be there and then he abruptly appears later. I think he was there the whole time in the “projection booth” running the whole show, ie it was specifically for Jack’s benefit, the images didn’t actually have to come “in order” and they were being completely manipulated by Jacob.
Verf: somlec ...... somlec it Hoth
RE:• Does David not pick up his messages? His answering machine was flashing, and the second message was Jack telling him that something had happened and he wanted to hear his voice. If he'd picked up the message, it wouldn't have still been flashing. Has David not heard it yet?
The machine was only blinking once, for the new message about the audition. The second was a saved message.
Something occurred to me while thinking about this whole new revelation of Jack having a son named David. The name Jack is almost always a nickname for Jacob, so if you put it in that perspective you have:
Christian Shepard
Jacob Shepard
David Shepard
The names Jacob and David could both be construed as "the" Christian shepards.
Nikki I just read your Doc Arzt post. I really liked it, especially the part about Jacob not being able to give out the answers. If Jack (or one of the other candidates) is supposed to be a leader, they have to figure things out themselves.
I still haven't seen this episode in HD, not really looking forward to seeing the fake baby and Jin's leg ;)
@SonshineMusic;@Erin (who first suggested it) :
I agree totally that 108 was just the starting point to get the whole slideshow started.
Then I started thinking. The pointer was going counterclockwise and counting down. What if Jack stopped at 108 like Hurley told him to. He wouldn’t have seen any other images.
Then I was thinking, what if Jacob had told Hurley to “pull our chain” from the other side and the pointer went in the other direction. Then it would have passed through all the numbers, in order, on its way up to 108, giving Jack a much better chance to “catch on”.
Then it hit me. Hurley actually went the wrong way. Counting down after Kwon’s image (42) there would be no more images to urge Jack on to 23.
Jacob, being the quick thinker he is and in control in the “projection booth”, realized this and randomly pulled an image from lower in the list and stuck it in between 42 and 23. This would explain why Sawyer’s image showed up too early and out of order.
Why is this important? It’s the first time in 6 Seasons I’ve come to a conclusion I’m satisfied with and it’s taken me 5 days to get there. Please don’t burst my bubble.
A small point – I don’t know if it’s really important, but in AU, David’s book is
The Annotated Alice , by Martin Gardner, one actually intended for adults. So much of “Alice in Wonderland” and “Through the Looking Glass” is composed of private jokes and details of Victorian manners and mores that modern audiences are not likely to catch. Gardner’s commentary identifies historical and literary references and allusions, explains Carroll's logical and mathematical puzzles, and interprets colloquialisms and idiomatic expressions. Older David would read this for himself, but Jack wouldn’t have read Gardner’s AA to baby David or baby Aaron...?
Word Verf: acphoophe : The sound when you hold your nose to keep from sneezing.
Whoops, I wish I'd never mentioned the beer!! It was only in response to a comment on the other post where someone was saying he doesn't touch a drop of alcohol. I wasn't suggesting Jack was going to get hammered on 6 cans of beer, just that he enjoys an occasional can and brought them home with the pizza (I also never suggested he was planning on giving it to David). I don't see anything wrong with the guy bringing home some beer to have with the pizza, and assumed the pop was in the fridge for David. And if it's pop he had with the beer, that's cool, too, though I'd never seen pop cans that big before (and wish I lived in a place that offered them!!) ;)
So despite the fact I don't drink, I just wanted to clarify that I'm not a Puritan. ;)
I love the idea that Christian is the other Shephard... we'd discussed that in conjunction with the "Shephard" being on the ceiling of the cave, and I think it still stands here.
Adding to previous thought: (a small pinhole in my own bubble)
The Kwon image appears just as they get to 108.
Jacob must have also realized that if they stopped at 108 they wouldn't have seen anything, so he flashed Kwon up there early to get Jack's attention, then stuck Sawyer in between, etc
Zari, I had also noticed that David's book was the "annotated" Alice. I have that version and highly recommend it. You'll see your favorite childhood book in a whole new, fascinating light.
At this point we have nearly run through the possible list of candidates for a X-world sideflash. All we seemingly have left is Sun, Sayid and Sawyer. I am thinking that these side-world flashes have been too good to be true, like WHITE won and this is that possible world. So if mirror-world are important, I would expect a new series of Side-world flashes, but from BLACK's perspective. We might see alternate worlds with Kate, Jack etc. but with a darker fates than what we've got so far. With 18 episodes, Darlton could run a series of 7 more side-flashes (from Outlaws to Born to Run) but with bad outcomes.
Zari: Thanks for pointing out the Annotated Alice... I have that book and read it for the first time about 15 years ago when I was studying it in university. Technically one *could* actually read it to a child, since when he was reading it to Aaron, Aaron was asleep in bed and wasn't looking at the pictures. The pictures are still in the book, and the annotations are footnotes, not in the actual text, so you could read it to a child... but an unannotated edition would probably be preferable, as you point out. :) (Though it's kind of funny to picture Jack reading the annotated version to young David, "And you see, when Alice is reciting this rhyme, it's actually based on a real spelling rhyme used in Victorian schools... let me read out the real one and we'll discuss the differences and similarities." Heehee!)
OK, what is bothering me now some time: when Jin says he knows a secret way into the temple, he refers probably to the hole in the ground at the temple wall, where Montand lost is arm.
The question is: how secret is that? UnLocke has been already in it! When Montand lost his arm! And when he guided Ben to the place where he was "judged". UnLocke was there as the man locking like Locke (offering his help to Ben when he fell through another hole in the ground) and as Smokey actually "judging" him. So he could have easily slipped into the temple from there, right? When he is hanging around with Claire he could have told her and parade with her through the secret way into the temple as Smokey.
Is that correct or do I miss something?
Sisa (Germany)
Nikki, every week, after reading all the comments and theories my head seems ready to explode....BUT, I love them. The other thing I love is the civility each person shows to the others. So many other blogs become vehicles to snip and disparage other contributers. I applaud all of you.
@Nikki - "As someone mentioned in the comments on my original post, it would appear that Claire didn't time jump, and instead seemed to be part of the island. Otherwise, how would all of her stuff had stayed with her when they jumped back?"
But didn't the flashing take place only over a period of a few hours? And didn't Claire say she'd moved around several times? Those are actually rhetorical quesitons, because I agree that she probably didn't flash. (That didn't come out right.)
I also agree that neither the TNT nor the box it was in looked as if they came from the Black Rock.
I still think, with those blue eyes, that David's mother will turn out to be Juliet. And alt-Jules will meet up with alt-Sawyer and they will go for alt-coffee. Alt-Dutch, of course.
@Sisa - I think Flocke just keeps his cards close to his vest. He does know about the "vent" but doesn't necessarily feel the need to disclose that to Claire. Maybe, because he is recruiting, he doesn't want to run the risk of Claire killing Jin, so he allows Jin to keep his bargaining chip.
Random thoughts only tangentially related to this episode. Did Sun not go back to 1977 because she's not the Kwon candidate? The same would apply to Frank, but it also occurs to me that we've never learned what his middle initial stands for. Frank Jacob Lapidus?
@Nikki - oops, you're absolutely right of course. Claire could not have flashed during the last "Kate ends up in a tree" flash. Sorry about that.
Puts me in mind though that Rose and Bernard are going to be awfully peeved about having lost their 1977 digs.
I have a theory.
First, the bomb did not blow when Juliette was banging on it at the end of the last season. Had it gone off, Juliette and everyone else on the island would have been dust. The white flash that ended the previous season was another time jump, sending the cast back to 2007
What we're watching is 2 separate time lines. LOST has always had separate time lines running. First, they used flashbacks, then flash forwards and last season two different timelines (1977 & 2007) playing at the same time.
The timeline on the island is 2007. We know that UnLocke is the man in black who was Jacob enemy and finally found a way to kill Jacob during last season's finale. UnLocke is currently recruiting an army to try to take over the temple. There is something in the temple that UnLocke wants and the others are trying to protect. Jacob (who's dead but communicating to Hurley) is also trying to recruit cast members to battle to protect whatever it is in the temple that UnLocke wants. Let's say there is a button, or a key or a wheel or something in the temple that will reset everything. It will cause the island to sink and will change everything about the people who to went to the island - including UnLocke and Jacob. UnLocke has said twice that he just wants to go home. He know that turning the reset key will give everyone the opportunity to live their lives without the influence of the island and in the case of the cast, the influence of Jacob. Remember, UnLocke told Sawyer that every decision he made in life was influenced by Jacob. As this season progresses, I think it's going to become clear that the 'good guy' is UnLocke and the 'bad guy' is Jacob. UnLocke wants to end the power of the island while Jacob wants the island to continue in power. At the end of the season (show), the UnLocke team will succeed, press the reset button and the influence the island had on everyone will immediately go away. And everyone will have a chance to live their lives without Jacob pulling their strings.
The timeline of 2004 - with the plane not crashing - is the lives of the cast members never being influenced by Jacob or the island. Everyone in the 2004 timeline is slightly different. Hurley doesn't think he is cursed, but feels he's the luckiest guy in the world. Sawyer, who overheard Hurley mention on the plane that he won the lotto, warns Hurley that people may try to take advantage of him. The old Sawyer would have been dreaming up a scheme to do just that. Locke stayed with Helen, has a relationship with his father and is more at peace in the wheelchair. Jack has a 15 year old son. Boone flew back to LA without Shannon, clearly he wasn't obsessed with her anymore.
LOST has always been about the theme of destiny vs. free will; faith vs. science. I think there will be some interesting character outcomes that will have the characters fulfill their destiny. For instance, Sawyer will meet Juliette. Juliette knows what is going to happen - when she was dying she told Sawyer that it worked; meaning they got back. They get back because of the reset button, not the bomb. Miles knows this because he 'spoke' with Juliette. Hurley meets Libby, Claire meets Charlie and Kate meets Jack. A cool way she may meet him is during her run from the police, she gets shoot in the back (by Anna Lucia, who is still a policewomen) and is taken to Jack's hospital and is operated on by Jack. We know Kate is wanted for murder in this new timeline, but maybe she is innocent of the crime. She is finally proven innocent (ala Richard Kimball) and live happily ever after with her spinal surgeon. Ben is still a pest but in the new time line, where he was never influenced by Jacob and the island, is a harmless pest. We may also find out that Ben met a pregnant Danielle, they fell in love and got married, raising Alex as their daughter. The last image we see of Ben is meeting Alex's new boyfriend (Karl).
What do you guys think?
@dave56: Imaginative outcome for LOST, and I agree if the writers don't want LOST 2.0 next season or down the road, they've got to get rid of the island.
But I think you're scenario is unlikely. First, although we've only had 3 side-flashes, a pattern is begining to form--in the early Seasons, we saw characters come into contact with one another, or with people they knew. Jack works on Sarah, not on Rutherford; Sawyer has a drink in the bar with Jack's dad; etc. etc. In these 3 side-flashes the encounters are brief and quickly people go their own way. Jack has a short conversation with Locke, then Locke leaves; Helen finds the card from Jack and suggests they call him, but Locke tears the card up. Kate does help Claire, but then leaves the hospital. In the early seasons, characters didn't understand the significance of whom they were meeting; in Season 6 they know the other main characters by name (John introduces himself to Jack, Sawyer learns of Hurley's name from Arzt), but they don't go anywhere with it. So in LA X-world I don't expect to see Kate end up with Jack, nor do I expect to see Locke regain the use of his legs. (I'll go out on a limb and suggest even Juliet may not meet Sawyer, and while Libby may meet Hurley, she may still be married to Dave--but this is a guess).
Dave56, I do like your idea that we should consider MiB/Locke as resetting the situation in trying to get free. That seems to have a lot of possibilities. But the consensus seems to be that MiB is evil, and should not be trusted. A real turn in the plot would be, as a number of posters here have considered, that MiB is really female, and so Jacob and MiB (female) were a couple--we see them ultimately as Adam and Eve. (personally, I think this is getting a little complicated and will leave many viewers confused--but it is a cool idea, if only they had a Season 7).
At this point we still don't know who MiB is, nor why he is on the island. What powers other than turning into a billowing cloud of smoke and juding people does he have? Sure he can turn into other people, and maybe in doing so he collects all their memories--is that how he judges them? But beyond that we're still very much in the dark. Like, was the decision to kill Locke, Ben's, or was he told to do so? His funeral oration suggests that in a different world, Ben would admire Locke, not seek to kill him. So, if Ben was told to kill Locke for some purpose, who by? By MiB, or by MiB convincing Richard (at the downed Beechcraft), telling Ms Hawking, telling Ben? Or is this part of Jacob's plan?
@dave56
I totally agree!
I think we are watching Season 6 *and* "Season 7" right now.
It will turn out at the end, when this Season ends, that the LAX timeline is what actually happens when the conflict of Unlocke and Jacob ends.
Darlton said in an Interview that we will hate the end and that it ends with a major Cliffhanger. I bet we will find out that we have seen the things to come all along in this season.
Sisa
I think what Damon and Carlton have said, correct me if I'm wrong, is that some people are going to dislike the ending, while others will love it (like anything in life). They were also quite clear that (their version of) Lost will end definitively. There will probably be some unanswered questions and lots of mystery, but a cliffhanger is unlikely.
Verification word: lateupti - what i am this morning
Claire's "branding" looks a lot like the scar that the hot poker made on Sayid... did Dogen burn her in the same way to see if she was infected?
I assumed as much, at least. She also mentioned getting poked with needles as well as the branding. Throw in some ash (which, not being painful, probably didn't stand out) and it sounds like Claire went through the exact same diagnosis as Sayid.
It's worth asking how, once the Others determined Claire was claimed, she escaped from the temple? Seems like they'd have tried to kill her right away, or at least, kept a pretty close eye on her.
How did Jin know there was a secret way back into the Temple?
I like the idea that he could be referring to the Montand Hole, but I just assumed he was telling Crazy Claire whatever he could to keep her from axing him in the gut too.
I wonder how you react to hot pokers and being electrocuted and show you aren't infected?
Cause me? Screaming like a baby.
@taprice-I figured that since Jin went into manipulate mode, he just said he knew there was a secret enterance, and really doesn't know of one, unless he is referring to the tunnels where they were captured?
word verif-squid-are you kidding me?
@jeff heimbuch-I agree with you. It's not that Jack is opposed to drinking in the sideways universe, he just isn't using it as a vice to hide behind, like in the normal timeline. And I too thought the cans were just pop cans to go with the pizza.
@paleoblues-"Why is this important? It’s the first time in 6 Seasons I’ve come to a conclusion I’m satisfied with and it’s taken me 5 days to get there. Please don’t burst my bubble."
hahahaha! You go!
word verif-defult-"It was defult of you, not defult of me!"
@dave56-" As this season progresses, I think it's going to become clear that the 'good guy' is UnLocke and the 'bad guy' is Jacob."
I keep hearing people say this, but how could someone who has so much EVIL in his eyes be the 'good guy'? I like what someone else said (I appologize to whomever it was for not remembering you) that there is something else going on here besides just "good vs. evil".
That could explain alot of why each side is acting the way they are.
@crazyinlost-Thanks for the vote of confidence.
I also think the good vs evil question is all relative, and like beauty, is in the mind of the beholder. Both sides are simply doing what is necessary, and allowed by the rules, to achieve their own particular goal. I think that even after the finale some will still be arguing the same question.
One final thought regarding the order of the images. The only really important thing was that Jack eventually saw his house and destroyed the mirrors. It wasn’t necessarily Jacob who realized that going counterclockwise didn’t make sense and then scrambled to rearrange the order and location of the projected images, but someone/something (the island?) did. Or perhaps it was just the post-production crew during editing.
Verf ... liquis....do you prefer black or red?
Anyone wonder if the 108 Wallace doesn't necessarily mean the PERSON that's coming to the Island but more the direction that person's coming from? if so, the name might not be at all related to the identity of our impending new arrival. I mean, I doubt each degree on the wheel syncs up mirror-viewing exactly with a spot in that direction.. after all, so many of our Survivors are from L.A.
Just a thought!
Last final thought:
Although WE recognize that the images are "out of order" and "misplaced", to Jack they are just random images of buildings until he sees his own house. He would have never seen the others before.
@Marebabe:
"I guess we all have our favorite fascinating factoid about the Numbers. Mine is this one: All of them are numbers retired by the NY Yankees and all of them sit in Monument Park in the Bronx. Including even Jackie Robinson from Brooklyn, who was so great even his enemy honors him."
"4 – Lou Gehrig; 8 – Yogi Berra; 15 – Thurman Munson; 16 – Whitey Ford; 23 – Don Mattingly; 42 – Jackie Robinson"
--
Interesting that you brought up the baseball analogy. If Damon L. is a big baseball fan, then he knows the most revered retired number in baseball right now is Jackie Robinson, #42.
No one in baseball is allowed to wear #42. It has been retired by all baseball teams. There is only one exception: Mariano Rivera. Once Rivera retires, no one in baseball will ever wear #42 again.
That said, I wonder if Damon L. put special meaning behind the castaway labeled as #42 - Kwon?
Sorry to come in so late with something that may have beeen said and I missed it, but last week, when Smokey pointed to "KWON" on the ceiling he said "I don't know if it's Jin or Sun". All this is well and good, but he left out the third KWON who is not on the island, their child (whom I assume Smokey knows little to nothing about - I find this very interesting, and am doubtful it happened by accident).
Maybe that's why Jacob touched both parents at their wedding, he was influencing them to make sure that they stay together and have a child on the island (during a time when giving birth is a death sentence as well)?
So then is it the child that is important, or the breaking of the childbirth death cycle? Or perhaps the keeping of the two of them together with a bond strong enough to create a child (which did not exist in season 1 as their relationship was disintegrating).
Hi folks!
paleoblues: And, to me, the neatest thing she has done, is place two buttons or rings on the skull’s forehead facing forward like the eyes of a primate.
It's the
Eyes of a primate
It's the snout of a squirrel
Rest-ing sound-ly in Claire's Weird Jungle Crayyy-dle
And you think
That it's creepy
But it can't be alive
Yet it's watch-ing us all with the eyyyyyyyyyyyes
Of a priiiiiiimate!
I never did get to post comments here on last week's episode, because my laptop had gone nuts, but if anybody wants to belatedly read my thoughts there are a couple of posts over on my own blog: an initial episode recap based on Mrs. Shephard's line "How do you lose a body?" and some follow-up craziness that includes me divining Wallace's identity.
VW: Colognet — The first cable channel devoted exclusively to smelllin' good. ("Now I'm on a horse.")
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