Lost: 6.01 “LA X, Parts 1&2”“It worked.”
Well, Darlton said they’d come up with a new method of storytelling for S6, and they did. No more flashbacks, no more flashforwards, just two different possible worlds running simultaneously. Fringe and Flashforward are both running with Hugh Everett’s “Parallel Worlds” theory right now, which is where Lost had been heading all along. (Cliff Claven factoid: Hugh Everett is the father of E, the lead singer of the Eels.) So will the two timelines continue for the full season, eventually coming together in some epic way? Because so far I’m REALLY intrigued by the possibility of watching the lives of these people and how they would have unfurled if the plane hadn’t crashed. I thought all along the do-over would be something they’d show us for the first episode or so and then continue on the island, but keeping two storylines? AMAZING.
“You did this.”
Did anyone else feel terrible for Jack throughout the episode? Like Locke, he thought he was doing the right thing. He thought he was helping people. But Sawyer glares at Jack (who’s as broken as anyone else in the episode when his bomb idea doesn’t work) in one timeline, while Charlie glares at him in another. It’s like, if destiny exists, poor Jack is destined to piss people off wherever he goes even when he thinks he’s trying to help. I thought he looked particularly haggard in this episode, and maybe that’s what raised my sympathy so much. Is there no timeline where Jack can just be happy?!
Free Will vs. Destiny
Again the show’s overarching theme was there in a big way. Charlie says he was supposed to die, and in the original timeline, that’s exactly what happened. When they find Montand’s body, he had on him one of Kierkegaard’s books. Kierkegaard believed in choice and free will and believed in experience over theory. Perhaps Smokey attacked Rousseau’s crew for those beliefs? (Interestingly, he also studied the personal and psychological reactions people had when faced with certain circumstances, as if he were the real father of the Dharma Initiative, who ran many psychological experiments that covered similar material.) There’s an idea in the episode that no matter which path you choose, the outcome will be the same. Jack will always be the guy rushing to someone’s side, and will be hated for it. Locke will continue to believe in his greatness, even if no one else does. Boone says he’d be by Locke’s side, just as he was on the island. When Kate knocks the marshall out, he incurs the exact same wound on the same side of his forehead that he got when the case whacked him in the head. When Kate runs into Jack as she’s stepping out of the airplane bathroom, she looks at Jack like she’s immediately taken by him, just like she did on the island. When Sawyer sees Kate’s handcuffs in the elevator, he’s immediately attracted by her bad-girl nature and helps her out.
Highlights:
• DESMOND!!!! Reading Salman Rushdie. Thanks, writers, for handing me a book in the first 5 minutes of the season. :/ Thankfully, Rushdie is one of my favourite authors. I wasn’t able to see the title, but it really looked like the cover of Haroun and the Sea of Stories (a book I read about 15 years ago and adored...). If that’s what he’s holding, I can already think of the possibilities of what would link that book to Lost!
• The underwater island!! It really IS Atlantis! Loved as we rushed past the school of fish, and did you see the Dharma symbol on the tail of the shark? HAHA!
• Hurley: “I’ve got a gun!! And I know how to shoot it!!” as he desperately tries to load a bullet into the chamber. LOL!
• Boone! Frogurt! I thought Maggie Grace was coming back but I guess no?
• Ben to Ilana: “I’m sorry, who are you?!”
• “Asking me who’s in the shadow of the damn statue doesn’t mean you’re in charge.” HA!! You GO Richard!! Anyone notice we actually see Richard more unravelled in this episode than ever before? He gets angry, almost violent, and up until now he usually steps back holding his coffee cup and looking like he’s on Prozac.
• CHAH-LIE!! I literally jumped up and hopped up and down around the living room. Like a bunny with a number 8 on my butt.
• The Temple! It actually reminded me a lot of the temple where Jin and Sun were married... minus the colour.
• Sawyer after being told a 341 is confidential: “Well if it’s confidential how the hell am I supposed to know if I see one?”
• When Sayid is carried out of the water, he’s in a Christ pose.
• Claire!
• Ben: “You’re the monster.” Not-Locke: “Let’s not resort to name-calling!”
• Not-Locke says the last thing Locke was thinking was, “I don’t understand.” Then says, “Isn’t that just about the saddest thing you’ve ever heard?” Yes... it is. It made my chest hurt when he said that. :(
• Followed by Hurley leaning in and saying to Sayid, “Hey dude... if you ever want to talk, I’m around.” You’re KILLIN’ me here, people!!
• The Man in Black and Alpert coming face to face. WOW.
Answers:
• I thought I’d add a new subhead in this year to catalogue all of the answers we actually get.
• Shadow Seekers are Jacob’s bodyguards. The Man in Black should know, I would think, so for now I’ll take his word that that’s who they are. It still leaves the questions about how they know about the island and where their allegiances come, etc.
• “I’m sorry you had to see me like that.” Smokey = Man in Black. Not a surprise.
Did You Notice?:
• As soon as Jack takes the bottle from Cindy and says, “It’ll be our secret,” I knew things were going to be different. In “Pilot, Part 1,” Jack says to her that she’s breaking several FAA regulations, and then Charlie comes running by. Jack also seems a little drunker the first time around.
• Throughout the episode, when it moves between timelines you don’t hear the familiar “whoosh” sound, but instead you hear that screechy sound that happens right before a time jump.
• Rose says, “It’s OK, you can let go.” Which is exactly why Jack created this timeline in the first place: to let go of everything that’s caused him pain in the last 3 years.
• I loved when Jack looked in the mirror and at first I thought, “OMG, does he have a memory of being on the island and now he’s realizing he looks 3 years older?” but then he leans in and it’s just a razor cut on his neck.
• I mean this only as an observation, not showing a preference for one side over the other, but the writers were NOT doing the Skaters any favours with this episode. Kate looks at Sawyer, then Jack, and runs to Jack.
• Hurley doing the “commercial” for Mr. Cluck’s is referring to the Mr. Cluck’s commercial that they showed at Comic-Con.
• Death gave Jacob a haircut!
• You know, I’ve always found the Jin/Sun thing in the early days to be inconsistent with what we later know about them. His whole, “do up your top button” thing seemed to be somewhere they were going with the couple and then switched gears. Since then we’ve seen him flash the little flower at the airport to her and then we find out that he’s reassured her he’ll get rid of the watches and then they’ll run away together... But then again, all of that happened right before he ran into Hawaiian shirt man in the airport, who told him that no matter where he goes, Paik will be right there. That’ll put anyone on edge.
•
• Did anyone else think for a second that maybe, in this timeline, Locke could actually walk and he really wasn’t pulling Boone’s leg?? I half-expected Locke to stand up at the end.
• Ben just looked like a shell of himself as he stood there staring at the fire... what a great moment. Though I’ll admit for a moment I thought Ben was so broken we’d never see the old manipulator again... but I know he’ll be back.
• Poor Sayid. First, in the finale when Sawyer says he needs 5 minutes of Jack’s time, Jack wanders away without letting on that Sayid is bleeding out in the truck. In this one, Jin goes racing over to Jack to tell him that Sayid’s getting worse, and ends up down in the hole helping him move debris off Juliet before running back to the van, hurling Sayid inside and racing back over to Juliet.
• Jack is trying to revive Charlie and says he needs a pen. He actually needs one for real, yet in the other timeline where he landed on the island, Boone asks him if he needs a pen and Jack says, “Yes. Please go find me many pens” just to get rid of Boone. Now he actually needs one for reals.
• Jack to Charlie: “Yeah, you’re alive.” I almost cried at that line. Charlie’s alive. :::sniffle:::
• Juliet’s dead. :::sniffle::: Wah.
• Frogurt was wearing a red shirt. Hahaha!
• They seemed to pull the wheelchair out of a compartment, and yet in Sydney Locke was told they didn’t have any such thing and they had to carry him onto the plane (which, again, I ask... really? He didn’t have to go pee once in a 16-hour flight?!)
• Hurley’s also wearing a red shirt. Which has me REALLY REALLY worried. Please change shirts, Hurley. Soon.
• Was anyone else yelling at Kate, “Grab the case!!!” when she was running out of the bathroom after knocking out the marshall?
• The John Lennon circa 1968–looking dude played Sol Star on Deadwood. Think he knows Oldham and the Man in Black? And is he the walrus?
• As the Japanese guy is reading off Jacob’s latest list, there’s a guy standing behind him who looks familiar... is that an Other we’ve seen in previous seasons? He looks a little bit like Aldo... with a big red hat.
• Jack trying to revive Sayid with Kate sitting by him saying, “Jack, what are you doing, he’s dead” was reminiscent of the scene where Charlie appeared to be dead in the jungle and she begged him to stop and he refused... and revived Charlie. But here, he gives up. Jack has learned to let it go – is that always a good thing?
• Man, I’ve been watching too much Fringe. When Doc Arzt was retrieving his baggage from the carousel, I jumped for a minute because I thought I saw the Observer standing next to him! Then I thought it was Dave... and then realized nah, it’s just a bald guy.
• I couldn’t believe it when Kate didn’t just take Frogurt’s cab. She’s on the run from the law... I’ve been standing in those taxi lines at airports before and watched people cut in and jump in cabs and no matter how much yelling everyone else does, they just drive off.
• Wow, Zack and Emma have gotten old! But unlike with Walt, three years have passed so they can continue to use the same actors. It made me sad that these little kids who just wanted to see their parents have not only been denied a happy childhood with their family, they’re being treated like servants by the Others.
• Notice how disconcerted Miles looks as he’s sitting next to Sayid... he knows he’s not dead dead, because he can’t seem to communicate with him at all.
• I loved seeing Jack and Locke meet for the first time and Locke actually being a comfort to Jack. Remember back in “White Rabbit” in S1, Locke talks to Jack about how we chase things and Jack really listens to him, the way he listens to him here. I gasped when he mentioned he was a spinal surgeon... imagine if he could fix Locke and become Locke’s saviour?!
• Alpert starts shouting, “Don’t shoot him! Don’t shoot him!” because he knows if they do, the smoke monster will come back.
So Many Questions...
• So... if the Swan never existed, then Desmond wouldn’t have been there pushing a button every 3 minutes. But, how did he end up on the plane? Does this mean that his boat crashed on the island in the first place because of the electromagnetism and without the island there, he was able to complete the race? Or does it mean that Widmore never had the race in the first place, confirming the long-held belief that Des was just his guinea pig all along? Is he with Penny or no? So many questions about Desmond being on that plane!!
• Jack wonders if he knows Des from somewhere. Is it the island or the stadium in LA? Because interestingly, when Des first sees him in the hatch, he INSTANTLY remembers Jack from the stadium. And yet here, he doesn’t have a clue who Jack is.
• Would a hydrogen bomb have simply thrown everyone back into the trees? And not obliterated them? I’m with Sawyer on that one... I think the island flashed them ahead 30 years just as it was about to go off, but it left the bomb behind. That would explain why everything that was on the construction site has been completely blown away.
• Why can’t the Man in Black cross the line of ash?
• Do the people outside the statue see the smoke monster? Wouldn’t that have tipped Richard off as to what was going on in there? Why don’t they rush inside?
• It was weird to see Ben cowering behind a stone during the Statue Massacre, simply because he’s always looked this sort of thing straight in the face without blinking. It’s like he’s a changed person... could the death of Jacob changed Ben back to the person he was before he was “changed” in the Temple? Could some of that little boy Ben be back?
• Juliet says, “We could get coffee some time... we could go Dutch.” Was that a line from early in their relationship? Or was she actually getting a glimpse of the other timeline for a moment and she could see herself talking to someone else?
• So... were the people at the Temple just the other Others that Richard sent on ahead back in season 3? Or are they always at the Temple? Why are they dressed so differently than they were in New Otherton? Cindy just had her regular clothes on in season 3, and now she’s looking like the rest of them. It’s like they only just got the newsflash that peace signs, round glasses, and fringe vests are in style... 40 years too late.
• Who is the Japanese guy in charge at the Temple? Why haven’t we seen him before now?
• I can’t help but wonder: Did Jacob deliver his lists to Ben in ankhs, too?
• Is this the same procedure that Ben went through when he was taken to the Temple? Was he drowned and came back to life?
• The Man in Black says he wants to go home. But where is home? More importantly, WHEN is it?!
• The Man in Black says to Richard that it’s nice to see him when he’s not in chains. Could he have been a slave on the Black Rock when Jacob brought it to the island? And if so, why would the Man in Black hate him so much? Was it because Jacob made him immortal and not the Man in Black?
Next week:
415 comments:
1 – 200 of 415 Newer› Newest»Holy... I was right! Lost is in the parallel timelines business, baby, and we have entered the age of the flashsideways.
I'm sure you all remember my comment on the recap of "The Incident" back in May where I said the only place left to go after time travel was alternate realities (it's about 2/3 of the way down that page). [A longer argument for this development was posted on mah owns blog recently; I'm not selling any T-shirts, I promise. 8^)]
The good ol' favorite lines, in order of appearance, with selective commentary:
• Credits: "Emilie de Ravin". Okay, it's not dialogue, but it was so welcome.
• Man in Locke™: "I'm sorry you had to see me like that."
• Man in Locke™: "That's the great irony here, Ben, because I want the one thing that John Locke didn't: I want to go home." Actually, the whole mini-soliloquy leading up to that stood out for me in what was obviously a signature episode of the series — as so many this season will likely be — with MIL revealing John's final thoughts to Ben. "Isn't that the saddest thing you've ever heard?" Uh-huh, and it's devastating to hear coming from Locke's body in another display of Terry O'Quinn's ability to pull off an almost unbelievable role.
• Jack: "Nothing's irreversible." This just might be the missing link between old Man of Science fix-it Jack and the later Jack who believed, or at least so wanted to believe, Eloise Hawking and Daniel Faraday. While he didn't spend all that much time in his chrysalis stage as the Man of Faith who put his father's shoes on Locke's dead body to return to the Island, though, it's just dawned on me that the Jack who wanted to make everything better by detonating a hydrogen bomb to alter reality itself was a fusion of both perspectives, with the zeal of a convert.
• Man in Locke™: "Hello, Richard. It's nice to see you out of those chains." Richard (pausing, squinting his completely naturally dark squint, reeling): "You?" Man in Locke™: "Me."
Cindy! I think she was a bigger surprise than Boone, given the publicity, although not necessarily moreso than...
Chahhhlie!
Captain Norris! Greg Grunberg, you are always welcome, even in voice only.
Clehhhh! Emilie de Ravin, you are, to quote my good friend Joan Crawford, eminently palatable.
I really don't want to write any more without reading your own recap, Nikki, but while I'm really tired I also have all this nervous energy, almost moreso than before the episode. Despite the much greater critical eye with which I watch Lost since joining this here rodeo, I'm thankfully still able to sit back and watch the story unfold instead of trying so hard to catch hints or remember details for later analysis that I miss the pure escapism. When it's over, however, I want the immediate gratification of conversation and speculation. I'm so glad that my web access isn't charged by the page refresh!
What worked?!?
The explosion fractured time into 3 parallel parts: 1977 (Sawyer, Jack, Jin, Hurley, Kate, Sayid at the aftermath site; 2004 (Flight 815 @ LAX); 2007 (Ben, Ilana, Richard, et al at the Foot) ?!????
Jacob: “I died an hour ago.”
Hurley: “That sucks.”
JohnLocke=ManInBlack=Smokey!!!
Great blog.
WOW, WHAT A FREAKING AWESOME TWO HOURS!!!
A lot of things turn out to be not worth the hype, especially when there's mass amount os hype. but nope, LA X delivered...and delivered...and then, just to shake things up, delivered some more!
@Nikki: according to imdb, the Japanese man leading the Others is named "Dogan", and his John Lennon look-a-like is actually named (get ready for this) "Lennon"!
Terry O'Quinn's portrayal of the Man In Black has got to be one of the scariest performances I've ever seen. the way we can hear all of these nasty things about John Locke, coming out of John Locke's mouth! Intense!
The Richard/MIB scene was awesome! Throughout the episode I kept hoping people would tell us MIB's name, and it was always on the tip of everyone's tongue!!!
"What are you?"
"I'm not a what, I'm a who!"
"We're not keeping you in. We're keeping HIM out."
"Who?"
"Hello, Richard."
"......You!"
"Me."
WHO ARE YOU???!!!!
Also, remember the flashes of white light when the monster was chasing juliet & Kate through the jungle in "Left behind"? I spotted one here when the Monster rushes Bram, just after Bram has encircled himself in ash.
I'm just gonna post this real quick and then go back for all the good stuff.....
When we thought that Sayid had died, my first thought was, this is what tomorrow's headline is going to be: "FAMED LOST PRODUCERS FOUND DEAD: Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, were found murdered early this morning. A witness says the only thing they remember seeing was a flash of extremely attractive bangs as the culprit fled the building screaming, "Torcha Scrunchie!".
@Blam: Man in Locke™
Bwa hahahahaha!
Awesome post, Nikki! And you asked some very good questions. I sure did not envy you the task of trying to make sense of tonight’s 2-hour premiere. Even with two viewings, as you usually do before posting your analysis. And I dared to predict what you would choose as your highlight for this episode as soon as I heard it: when NotLocke said to Ben, “I’m sorry you had to see me like that.” I got all giggly!
They broke from their long-established pattern of providing subtitles for non-English dialogue. Why d’you suppose there were no subtitles for the Japanese spoken in this episode?
Rose and Bernard are so sugary-sweet with each other. I like it, don’t get me wrong. It’s just such a contrast to the bicker-bicker-bicker we’ve seen so much with them up to now. I really noticed it in a big way.
I’m with you, Nikki. When Locke was telling Boone the story of his fabulous 10-day walkabout, I was seriously wondering if he was going to walk off that plane in LA.
LOL about you thinking you saw the Observer! I didn’t see the guy you’re referring to, but as a Fringe fan, I totally get it. :)
I caught Damon and Carlton’s appearance on Jimmy Kimmel tonight, and they made an announcement about the series finale. It will be on SUNDAY, May 23rd. The reasoning behind it is so that fans will be better able to gather, celebrate, and enjoy it together. “Tailgate” is the term they used. One thing I noticed was that when I went to my calendar to look at that date for myself, I only had to turn a few pages of the calendar to do it. I realized how very SOON that is, and then it will all be over.
My head is still spinning. Amazing start. Things that stood out before we all watch it again and again as is the curse of Lost fans and analyse till we turn blue.
Kate waking up in the tree. Love it! The eye was Kate afterall. LOL. I remember all the arguments and diagrams of eyebrows at the end of last season. Monkey Kate is back. Put a smile on my face for a good half an hour. Nothing erased that smile.
Love the Hurley and Jacob scene.
Thought it sad that poor Sayid was left to bleed to death while everyone was pulling chains to search for Juliet.
Flocke is scaring me shitless.
Like the new Jack. I do feel sorry for him.
Kate and Sawyer in the ALT! Love it! That chemistry is just inimitable.
Kate and Sawyer in that temple as she washes his face and the way the light came in. That scene for me was the most beautiful scene not because of content but because of how it was shot. (I love the content ofcourse) Reminiscent of the episode "Collision" in season 2. I also thought it was sweet that Kate waited for Sawyer up top while Sawyer and Juliet did their schmoopfest thing down below :)
...and good heavens...Flocke/MIB is smokey?
There is more but I am a million miles away so this is me without sleep. I need coffee then I shall remember some stuff I am sure.
@Nikki-As a Skater, I didn't mind that Kate ran to Jack first.
@Marebabe: Sunday, May 23rd? I smell a Nik @ Nite reunion viewing!
It was so amazing watching this show with my parents and my sister. So many different opinions. I was very proud that my Dad, who watches casually (today he said that his favorite characters are Hurley and "That guy that doesn't age". Gotta love it), as soon as he saw Locke and Jack on the plane said, "Jack's a spinal surgeon" to which my sister and I went, D'oh!
When Jack looked in the mirror, it was a very Through the Looking Glass moment for me (the book, not the episode) and I swear there were moments Jack ALMOST remembered or knew or crossed that line.
I love that the "restored" timeline is so different from the original timeline.
@Nikki: I noticed that about Alpert too. He was so much more animated than we usually see.
@Nikki: Did anyone else think for a second that maybe, in this timeline, Locke could actually walk
I totally thought that. I was on pins and needles waiting to see if he could walk or not!
That scene with Jack trying to revive Sayid really was reminiscent of the Charlie scene and I felt really let down when he gave up so quickly.
Did anyone else wonder if Desmond was actually ever there. When Jack returned he was gone and no one else seems to have seen him. Was be consciousness/time/dimensionally travelling?
Jack's face, when he realizes the bomb didn't work looked VERY much like Locke's face when he realized the button was real.
One of my favorite lines? Lapidus: They say they're the good guys."
That was a LOT of chains to keep randomly in the back of a van.
OH! so, I was thinking, back when Ben summons the smoke monster so he can be judged, he says to Sun, "What's coming out of that jungle I can't control." And then it was Locke, but now we know that it was the MiB! Which is really the Smoke Monster! So, when Ben summoned Smokey, he actually appeared right away, just in his Locke suit.
WHERE IS CHRISTIAN'S COFFIN!?!?!?!?!
MiB says that Locke was "irreparably broken". So does that mean that he's been influencing him since he landed on the Island? Even possibly taking some possession of him? Is that how Locke could walk?
Maybe the temple is home to MiB and he has been kept out all this time by Jacob? idk
Why does FLocke say that he's disappointed in everybody?
And here's my big theory I'm throwing out there.
What if Sayid isn't raised from the dead? What if Jacob is now in Sayid? If so, I NEVER saw that one coming.
verification: ingyndog - I'm not sure what kind, but obviously some kind of dog
First of all, I'm damned impressed you got this written so fast.
Secondly, GAH! WHA?!? HOLY! WOW! WHA?!? Awesome! Aw..HOLY! and so on...
I half-expected Locke to stand up at the end.
Me too.
I gasped when he mentioned he was a spinal surgeon
I was shocked that in all these years, no one has ever really drawn the connection betwen Locke (broken spine) and Jack (spinal surgeon, who we KNOW has performed miraculous surgeries).
@Blam we have entered the age of the flashsideways.
I wondered what we'd call them, and that's pretty close to what I came up with. I, for one, like it.
Suddenly Richard's comment about seeing the Losties die makes some sense: if Jughead fractured reality, causing these alternate realities to split off, it's possible that when Jack, Sawyer etc. were shunted back to 2007, they also left behind bodies that died in the aftermath of the incident.
Ok, there's a ton to talk about, but I really should go to bed. Back in the morning!
PS LOVED the Dharma Shark!
An excellent post as always Nik.
A Few Comments:
1 - It seems the bomb could not have went off on the island timeline (but see 2 below). Kate clearly stated that the hatch looked the same as it was when Desmond blew the failsafe key.
Also, an atomic bomb would do a LOT more damage, to say the least. I think the island timeline only had a flash, just as what happened to Desmond.
2 - After seeing the island being underwater and hearing 'Blondie' (through Miles) saying, "It Worked" makes me wonder if the entire 'reset' timeline could be a flashforward of sorts, showing what happens at the end of the season.
In short, the island story will show how they actually do reset the timeline so that when Jack is on the plane that lands safely, it is the end of the series.
This is only a guess, and I hope it is not an accurate one.
3 - The volcano and bomb may possibly play a role in the endgame.
A great start to the final season.
Thanks for your hard work Nik!
All the best,
Todd
Dang, woman, you really laid down some text.
“It worked.”
Oh, yeah, the most important line of the episode and I forget to include it.
No more flashbacks, no more flashforwards, just two different possible worlds running simultaneously.
The scenes of Oceanic 815 landing safely actually are flashbacks — or flashdiagonals (!!!) — because they take place one universe over and three-plus years ago.
Charlie says he was supposed to die, and in the original timeline, that’s exactly what happened.
Who's to say which of these is the original timeline? Okay, the writers are who, but I mean we don't know which if either is the original or "proper" timeline, to be course-corrected towards or preferred by grand multiversal entropy or whatever.
When Kate knocks the marshall out, he incurs the exact same wound on the same side of his forehead that he got when the case whacked him in the head.
That's just because they filmed his scenes for this episode in 2004 and didn't have time for makeup. 8^)
the Dharma symbol on the tail of the shark
I totally missed that, but I'd never caught it back in the Season 1 finale either.
WOW!I was honestly worried how the alt timeline and the Island story was going to go together and after about 45 minutes in I finally relaxed and said out loud " Darlton you crazy bastards ,you're actually exceeding my expectations for this season"
MIB/Smokey = figured that already ,but what a great scene to confirm it.
John Locke's last thoughts "I don't understand" = Heartbreaking
Nikki: - Totally agree with you that the Island IS Atlantis.I rented a couple documentaries on the lost city of Atlantis during the hiatus and if this theory holds true it would be a great explanation for "What IS The Island?" The Island underwater = one of the greatest reveals in the history of the show so far.So epic.Despite the questionable CG effects.
MIB/Flocke - "I want to go home" = jaw dropped for the entire commercial break.Shocking line and at least for I felt sympathetic towards MIB because I related it to E.T. when he wanted nothing more than to go back home.By the way, E.T. still breaks my heart every time I watch.It is so sad that he is resurrected yet can't stay with his new family and has to leave.It is a joyful and sad moment that last scene.How many movies that are released today can give you that same emotion?He also is so odd looking he's adorable.Sorry Nikki to take up space with my E.T. rant,I just love that film and character so much.
Verification word: expiratt — A castaway from The Black Rock who don't spell so good.
Anyone notice we actually see Richard more unravelled in this episode than ever before?
Yes!
I thought I’d add a new subhead in this year to catalogue all of the answers we actually get.
Niiiiice.
As soon as Jack takes the bottle from Cindy and says, “It’ll be our secret,” I knew things were going to be different.
Oh, because previous flashbacks have never contradicted one another. 8^) Which recalls the whole theory of them having already shown us slightly altered timelines (if only as a nitpicker's explanation for egregious [Hi, Joan!] production errors).
I mean this only as an observation, not showing a preference for one side over the other, but the writers were NOT doing the Skaters any favours with this episode.
For me one of the most satisfying things about this episode was the James/Juliet relationship getting a proper send-off (if this is indeed the end of it). While I hadn't been rooting for any particular combo of the quadrangle in any way other than desiring consistency in what I thought the writers and actors were trying to establish, once their devotion became clear I got itchy during last season's finale thinking that Juliet would die (or reset time or whatever) without feeling secure in Sawyer's love for her. You can also count me not just fascinated by her knowledge that "it worked" but glad that what she had to tell him wasn't "I'm totally PG" (as if he needed another reason to go apescat on Jack); Miles looked so exhausted that I was afraid it was emotional devastation over the knowledge of an unborn Boss Jr.
Death gave Jacob a haircut!
This is, incidentally, the title of Evil Blam's favorite pulp novel. Don't ask me how I know.
@ SonshineMusic: “Did anyone else wonder if Desmond was actually ever there.... Was he consciousness/time/dimensionally travelling?”
Yes! And I hope we get some major story on Desmond-Penny-Widmore.
@Nikki: “When Sayid is carried out of the water, he’s in a Christ pose. That made me think that he wasn’t drowned, but baptized and came back to life/reborn.
If the finale really is on May 23rd I may just have to die. That is the end of our grand family vacation this year and I may potentially have to resort to drastic measures. Or convince my parents that I MUST bring my own car so my sister and I can get back in time for the finale party I am determined to throw now that I know enough Lost fans to actually throw one.
Awesome episode!
I only hope that with the dead Locke body also being on the island (in addition to the one the MiB is in) that somehow the Locke that we know and love gets to come back to life as well. It sure would be sad knowing that this character who was so heroic in so many ways simply died thinking "I don't understand" and that is the end of him.
It would be such a small ending for such a noble character.
No way The Island is Atlantis - that would just be too easy.
Well, my head is reeling. I've been reading stuff on the episode since it ended 3 hours ago, and its now after 2 am...so I don't know how coherent I'll be right now, but I'll give it a try anyway.
I am almost 100% convinced that what Sayid went through tonight is what young Ben went through last season in the Temple. 1) It would be the ultimate karma for Sayid to be subjected to the same process that he ultimately caused young Ben to be subjected to - especially since he was shot by Roger's own hand.
2) Is Sayid also going to become what Ben has turned into? A nefarious, truth-challenged scoundrel?
OR, if Sayid has truly died..(lotsa symbolism that might indicate this..baptism/rebirth, the Christ-like pose as he was being carried by the men)...and is now taken over by Jacob or some other entity, does this mean that Ben was similarly taken over by something/someone? And all this time we've seen the conniving, lying adult Ben...it really hasn't been the REAL Ben at all?
On a different note, my wife told me her new theory tonight that, if I understand it correctly (and I'm not sure I do), that MIB took over Locke in season 1 during the first encouter with the smoke monster, and that he took real Locke to some other place - perhaps the temple? - and held him there for awhile. For what purpose? I don't know. Then, when the time flashes started after Ben turned the wheel, MIB released the real Locke, and it was really Locke going through the flashes with Sawyer and co., and real Locke who left the island and got murdered by Ben...just to be impersonated by MIB for the second time. I have no clue what the point of the first part of that theory would be...so for me at least, it doesn't hold much water. I hope that I'm just understanding it wrong in my tiredness and head-swimming state, and that her theory is something more coherent, because I'd like to give her more credit than that. Still, it's sort of interesting, if incomplete and confusing. But then again, what about Lost tonight WASN'T a head scratcher?
One more thing - early on in the episode, for a brief, horrific moment...I thought with the reboot, we were going to concurrently with the plane scenario we were seeing, we were about to also see several bodies on the island come suddenly to life because of Jack and Juliet's actions, and that Nikki and Paolo's bodies would be suffused with life, and they would dig their way out of the graves. I know there's been jokes about the fabled "zombie season" of Lost...and man, those two would have been the two most terrifying "zombies" in the entire history of zombie-dom, ever. Hands down.
You fellow LOSTies would love this site: http://www.timelooptheory.com/the_timeline.html
I'm actually assuming most of you have seen it, but for the rest - enjoy.
very tired....must go to bed. but first, just one observation that I did not see shared yet: Sawyer sees the handcuffs on Kate when he passes her on the plane AND in the elevator.
glad to hear that the series finale is going to be this year. I had heard that there would be a season finale this year and the series finale would be a 2 hour show in 2011.
After watching last season I thought that Jacob just may have found another loophole and would come back through someone who died...I feel that is Sayid. If what I said is true are Locke and Said dead or do they somehow still exist in their bodies along with their hitch hiker?
I wondered about the concept of deja vu and that though we can't go back and forth through parallel worlds, each one of those worlds may resonate when people meet those who have a significant place in a parallel life.
Did anyone else think for a second that maybe, in this timeline, Locke could actually walk and he really wasn’t pulling Boone’s leg?
Oh, yeah. We got many such lingering pregnant-pause teases. Is the plane going down anyway? Do they recognize each other somehow? Will Locke walk? Do they recognize each other somehow? Will Sayid gasp for air here? Are Sawyer and Kate pulling a con together in this timeline? Will Sayid open his eyes here? Do they recognize each other somehow?
for a moment I thought Ben was so broken we’d never see the old manipulator again... but I know he’ll be back
He did look impressively hollow, but he also started scrambling to curry favor with (or just escape from) Man in Locke™ right away when he lied in the shadow to the statue to Richard: "No, Jacob's fine... He wants to see you. I'll let you grown-ups talk. G'bye now!" Still, I haven't ever seen him supplicatory, unless you count what ended up being merely performance when he spoke so reverently of Jacob — whom it turned out he may not even have believed in until he saw him in the flesh; also impressive is the dread he seems to feel now that he knows Jacob is real and Smokey's in charge, never mind his guilt over complicity in that little coup.
Frogurt was wearing a red shirt.
And I bet you were hoping that Nikki & Paulo would be waiting in front of the taxi line in just the right spot to get run over by Kate's commandeered cab. That's right, Madame Stafford: Somewhere, Nikki & Paulo are alive. They're aliiiiive! Unless they're dead.
the Asian guy is reading off Jacob’s latest list
He's Japanese. I'm not calling you jingoistic in the least, and Japanese are of course Asian, but since we have a Korean fella and a Chinese-American, this may be useful.
I gasped when he mentioned he was a spinal surgeon... imagine if he could fix Locke and become Locke’s saviour
This was a great connection I'd never made before this episode. And now that you bring it up again, I've flashed on Jack putting his father's shoes on Locke's body and realized how much that scene mirrored him testing the feeling in Sarah's feet.
My husband thinks the man in black and Jacob have switched and we're being fooled somehow. The man in white (who we are led to believe is Jacob)... is the smoke monster. A man calling himself Jacob granted Richard eternal life. But was it really Jacob? Did Richard have to sell his soul (to a devil type figure?) The man who was pushed into the fire was the nemesis, inhabiting Jacob's body. The one who is inside Locke is actually Jacob (the good guy). He had been usurped out of his own body, which explains why he told the man in white "Have you any idea how much I want to kill you?" SO now the nemesis, having been forced out of Jacob's body, has now made his way into the temple, via Sayid...
I know... very confusing. It gives me a headache, trying to work my head around it... but he might be on to something...
Questions: Does Rose still have cancer? She seemed very perky and happy to be arriving in LA with Bernard, and not like she was just faking it for Bernard's benefit.
Why wasn't Michael on the plane?
Was Penny ever born? Did Widmore die on island during the hydrogen blast and therefore never leave to father her?
What about Des? Is the island done with him yet?
What about Eloise? Did she die? Was Daniel never born?
Who else thinks Christian and the coffin somehow ended up on the island?
Oh dear. How am I ever going to get to sleep?
I also missed Daniel Faraday tonight.
Jack wonders if he knows Des from somewhere. Is it the island or the stadium in LA? Because interestingly, when Des first sees him in the hatch, he INSTANTLY remembers Jack from the stadium.
I had the same reaction, and my own explanation is that, if they did meet in this timeline too, well, Des had no human contact in the Hatch for however many years, so fewer people to crowd Jack out of his head.
Why can’t the Man in Black cross the line of ash?
I'm sorry. Did you just ask, How does one explain why the billowing smoke that takes the form of dead people can't "X"?
Could some of that little boy Ben be back?
An excellent question. Say... Did Sayid have any innocence to lose?
Juliet says, “We could get coffee some time... we could go Dutch.” Was that a line from early in their relationship? Or was she actually getting a glimpse of the other timeline for a moment and she could see herself talking to someone else?
I wondered this too and totally forgot to bring it up. Good thing you do this recap-and-analysis stuff, Nikki... 8^)
Did Jacob deliver his lists to Ben in ankhs, too?
I suddenly imagined Geronimo Jackson being a cover for the Others traveling off-Island, and goodness help any roadies who aren't careful with the guitar cases.
Earlier, when Richard said Jacob made me this way, we all assumed he was made imortal. But seeing some connection between MiB and Richard, and MiB's comment that Richard is no longer in chains, perhaps Jacob made Richard in his human form--that is, Richard's original form was much like MiB.
Since LOST has a lot of parallels, perhaps Jacob's role is much like Edward Mars, escorting Kate. Jacob could be like the universe's Marshall, holding MiB prisoner.
The Temple dudes reminded me so much of Apocalypse Now, I almost expected to see Marlon Brando come out of the Temple.So now we know what happened to Ben.
The best part of the show was the focus on Locke, both dead and alive. MiB's understanding of Locke's life really highlighted the misery inflicted on him, and Ben's crime against Locke by killing him. And it was so heart warming to see Jack and Locke have a sympathetic discussion between each other, especially Locke's reminding Jack that Oceanic did not lose his father, (implying) Jack had lost a father.
Is Juliet's consciousness in touch with her other self off island? If so this is beginning to sound Matrix like. There was that line by Cindy about the survivors being of the plane this time around, or something like that, as if she knew there were alternate outcomes.
One of my all time favorite movies is Sliding Doors, with Gwyneth Paltrow. In it, right at the beginning it shows Gwyneth making it through some sliding doors and the consequences of her getting through them, then it juxtaposes the path her life went on by her not making the sliding doors. How the director in that movie juxtaposes the two paths, and the twist at the end in the path that seems preferable to the viewer, make the movie fascinating. It seems as if Darlton is, as you say, doing that juxtaposition during this last season, and like with Sliding Doors, I'm loving it.
A few comments on comments before bed, with apologies if comments I haven't read yet render any of the below redundant...
Me: we have entered the age of the flashsideways
Teebore: I wondered what we'd call them, and that's pretty close to what I came up with. I, for one, like it.
Honestly, I first went with "flashsidewards" and then did a Google on it to see if anyone else had coined the phrase. The only returns were for "flashsideways" and I figured that came off the tongue a bit more easily.
Zari: The explosion fractured time into 3 parallel parts:
No, just 2 (that we've seen), I think. The 1977 survivors were either sent by the time-fracturing of the blast or, more likely, pulled by Jacob and/or the Island to the same 2007 "present" of the Statue group. I'm surmising that the white flash at the moment of detonation was the same sort of flash seen by those on Ajira 316 when Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley, and Jin vanished in the moments just before the plane crashed.
Right now we're only seeing a 2004 in which Oceanic 815 didn't crash and the 2007 of the timeline in which it did. This would belie theories that Frank, Sun, Ben, Ilana, etc. landed in a 2007 that had been altered by the detonation of the Jughead core, by the way, although from the evidence people had pointed to last season of the Hydra station looking different than when last we saw it it's possible that this 2007 is slightly altered from how it would've been had none of the castaways been deposited in 1974 or 1977 and joined Dharma.
@QuestionMark: I made the mistake last season of looking up who played Young Danielle on IMDB last season and found spoilers in the form of character names. My reading of the consensus pulse here, if not Nikki's own rules, is that it's fine to mention that possible spoilers exist there but not to share them (please). On another topic, I noticed that flash of light as Smokey went for Bram and associated it more with the protection of the ash than with Smokey, as if it were coming from the heavens on behalf of Jacob to mark Bram, although fat lot of good it did him since Smokey caused enough destruction for rubble to smear the ash or Bram to fall outside the circle or whatever happened.
Marebabe: They broke from their long-established pattern of providing subtitles for non-English dialogue. Why d’you suppose there were no subtitles for the Japanese spoken in this episode?
I'm pretty sure that there are subtitles when another character understands the language spoken, so that the viewer can get what that character gets, but not when a character is speaking another language in vain, in a vacuum. So we'd probably have gotten subtitles if Hippie Guy were speaking Japanese back to Secret Asian Man, but since Hippie Guy was translating his orders into English the subtitles weren't "necessary" — a sneaky way to keep most of the audience in the same state of uncertainty as Hurley, etc.
Darn time paradoxes. Juliet sets off the bomb, which destroys the Island so that the plane never crashes. But if the plane never crashes, there are no events leading to Juliet setting off the bomb.
Time fractures, and our crew are sent forward to the present, where things seem to be as before. But now time has changed (Whitmore, Eloise etc died in the explosion, no numbers for Hurley so he wins the lottery and isn't cursed) so that we also have the flight landing in LAX with many of the same people, who have lived parallel lives.
This is going back in time and murdering your grandfather so you can't be born and go back in time and murder your grandfather on a really big scale.
It's 4am and I woke up and couldn't get back to sleep until I checked out the blog. I hope somewhere there's a me getting enough sleep. ;)
Sonshine: as soon as he saw Locke and Jack on the plane said, "Jack's a spinal surgeon" to which my sister and I went, D'oh!
I salute him. Nice one, Mr. Music-Hope!
Sonshine: I love that the "restored" timeline is so different from the original timeline.
How so? I've mostly been surprised by the similarities, which favor the "everyone's connected for a reason" or "destiny's harder to shake than you think" perspective, given that we're talking about a 2004 that stems from an event in 1977. Then again, I guess with the exception of Desmond, we haven't seen the "new" 2004 versions of characters who were on the Island pre-crash, like Ben, Juliet, any Others or Dharma folk who might in fact be dead, and so on.
Sonshine: Was [Des] consciousness/time/dimensionally travelling?
I wondered once we saw he was no longer there if he ever had been — or, actually, if they were trying to make us wonder if he ever had been, with Rose being asleep and all — but it feels like if he were "just visiting" than he'd either be confused about where he was or have a purpose for interacting with Jack.
@Sonshine: You brought up some very interesting ideas. No one else seems to have noticed Desmond on the flight. Hmm. Suppose that maybe MiB has been influencing – or even possessing – Locke ever since the moment he crashed on the Island, and THAT’S the reason he could suddenly and miraculously walk? Double-Hmm. And WHAT IF Jacob is now walking around in his brand-new Sayid suit? "...?"
@EamonnToGetLost: I had never before considered the possibility that Ben was taken over by something/someone following his “healing” at the Temple, but I’m going to start now!
Honestly, I long ago accepted the notion that the series finale of Lost would liquefy our brains. I just didn’t expect it to start with the S6 premiere! (Silly me.) Careful you don’t step in that slippery puddle of brains on the floor. I’ll clean it up!
I also think it's funny that the one person I KNEW couldn't be on the plane was Boone, because he's a vampire now. Fooled me again, Lost.
John Hawke! Woot!
I also think it's funny that the one person I KNEW couldn't be on the plane was Boone, because he's a vampire now. Fooled me again, Lost.
John Hawke! Woot!
All I can say is 'Wow'. Seriously, this is better than I ever imagined they could do with the Season 6 premiere. I only have a couple of random thoughts.
Sawyer saying that they would have been killed by a hydrogen bomb: yes, obviously they would have been. So it's confirmed by the Chinese Other Leader that they've travelled to the Sun/Shadow Seekers (thank God they've been nullified)/Ben/Frank timeline, since Richard saw the fireworks that Ghengis Otherton sent up.
I also thought that Locke would stand up and leave the plane without the aid of a wheelchair at the end of the flight. I was most gratified to see his scene with Jack in the Lost (ha ha) baggage claim thingy.
Shadow Seekers are Jacob’s bodyguards. Yeah, awesome job, dudes. Glad Bram, the 'LET ME SHOOT THINGS' kinda guy he was got dealt with so smoothly by Smokey/Not-Locke.
Hate comment on anything shipper related, but you meant "ran right to Jack", right Nik?
There are a hundred things that I wanted to comment on when I first saw the eps, but I'm rewatching them now, and can't collect my thoughts. Suffice to say that it was a hell of a season opener, and I'm wishing I could time jump to next Wednesday (we're ahead of all you folk who get it live) just to see what happens.
Oh, and that 'Next Time' trailer: brilliant. I've never been more 'spoiler-happy' with a trailer in my life. I couldn't tell what the hell was coming, which is completely and utterly awesome.
Oh yes, and YAY MORE DEADWOOD PEOPLE! SOL STAR FOR MAYOR, AND MISTER BULLOCK FOR SHERIFF!!!
More comments as my second viewing progesses: Smokey using alternate means to take down Bram The Uglier Version Of Seth Rogen with a rock so that his portable vial of 'super ash' doesn't work: Kudos, Smokey. Kudos!
verification word: shidness. The act of being the 'shidniddle'.
More comments: Where the smeg did Desmond go? I was leaping off the couch when Des showed up, and actually said 'I bet Nikki squeeed quite a lot just then' when he came on screen, and then whuh? Where he go?
WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP!!!! They restage 815 without the crash and we don't get to see if Nikki and Paulo would gotten away with the diamonds!!!!! Does anything else even matter???????
In all seriousness this goes up with Season 3 finale and the Brig as one of the top episodes ever.
I think they'll resolve the "Deuling Timelines" by mid-season and we'll see traditional flashbacks of Jacob, Richard, etc... then- I hope!
Has two hours ever gone by faster?
Will Jack end up fixing Locke with one of his miracles and two end up having a fulfilling "father/son" type relationship? irony of all ironies.
I just wish we could've seen Eko, AL, Mike, Walt & Libby as well.
We will never again see a Season Premier. WWAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!
-Tim Alan
I've finally seen the episodes so now I can start using the internet again!
I so wish Lost was two hours long every week.
Others have mentioned my main queries already, particularly why did Desmond disappear off the plane?
It great to have a character who is outshining Ben on the evilness front but I kinda miss cocky Ben - I hope he gets his mojo back soon.
Have you noticed how Sawyer is back to his season 1 self - all solitary and bitter? Doesn't even want his deputy anymore.
Where is Christian's body?
There was so much to take in I kept being surprised when another character turned up who I had completely forgotten about - Clare for instance.
Love the 'flashsideways' Blam.
Evangeline Lilly is the brain behind "flashsideways". Its how she referred to the new storytelling method in a recent interview. She should probably copyright it. I smell a book or tv show :)
On a rewatch, I noted other things but what I find amusing is how I like this Jack. How sorry I felt for this Jack and infact was quite angry with Sawyer for blaming Jack and some may say its grief but sawyer does not need an excuse to blame Jack. He blames Jack for everything. This is just another thing but this time, I truly feel sorry for Jack and Matthew Fox played it very well. I think I am going to like Jack this season. I hope he does not die because he a'int gonna get Kate so it will be a pity if his destiny is to die.
Hey guys!! Had to do a 7am interview so I'm up early after hoping I'd get to sleep in a little. No worries, here I am!
I'm going to go through and leave answers in order, so I'm sure in some cases I'll be answering things others already have. Sorry in advance if that happens!
Zari: The explosion fractured time into 3 parallel parts: 1977 (Sawyer, Jack, Jin, Hurley, Kate, Sayid at the aftermath site; 2004 (Flight 815 @ LAX); 2007 (Ben, Ilana, Richard, et al at the Foot) ?!????
They're actually in two timelines. The 1977 one is gone and the crew there have zipped to 2007. That's why they're not all dead, because they time flashed to 2007 just as the bomb was about to go off. Also, when they go to the Temple and the guy lets off the rocket, Alpert sees it, proving they're finally all together in one timeline.
Question Mark: according to imdb, the Japanese man leading the Others is named "Dogan", and his John Lennon look-a-like is actually named (get ready for this) "Lennon"!
LOL!!! No kidding!! That's hilarious. Well, if that's his name, I guess he's playing the role properly! (Though I guess he could just be called that by the fans who saw the premiere on the beach and they logged it into imdb or something.)
Throughout the episode I kept hoping people would tell us MIB's name, and it was always on the tip of everyone's tongue!!!
Great observation. I never noticed that (I was so busy looking for other things I wasn't actually waiting for his name... d'oh!) It's sort of like those Pat sketches on SNL where they'd always skirt gender pronouns. ;)
Some quick thoughts:
* Desmond flashed on and then off 815. That's why he didn't have a seat, and then vanished.
* The MIB we saw in the Incident wasn't his real form, but another dead body like Christian/Yemi/Locke.
* MIB couldn't cross the sonic fence not because of the sonics, but because they formed a circle.
* MIB's home is the Temple. That's why the Others were so agitated when Jacob died. He was preventing MIB from returning there, but now they're on their own.
Fantastic premiere to what is sure to be another fantastic season.
It looks like Faraday was right...and wrong. This season seems to be following two realities, one where Jughead detonated, and one where it did not.
First, let's point out the differences on this Oceanic Flight 815.
1. Jack has longer hair
2. Cindy hands Jack one bottle, not two.
3. The dialogue between Jack & Rose is altered slightly.
4. Desmond is now a passenger on the plane.
5. Charlie's hair is shorter, he does not run past Jack.
6. Shannon did not get on the plane.
7. Locke went on his walkabout and was not denied.
8. Hurley is a man of good luck, not bad.
9. Bernard comes back from the fucking bathroom.
10. The Island is underwater, as if the plane is in no danger at all of crashing.
11. Christian's coffin is lost (pun intended). Does this relate to the coffin being on the Island? Is Christian alive on the Island, or is it Smokey?
12. Jack is now the man of faith, and Locke is the pessimist.
Now it'll be interesting to see where this "What if?" scenario leads us.
Notice that the discussion between Jack and Locke mirrors the one they had in "White Rabbit" in Season One when Jack talks about his father's 'ghost'.
Whew! Now for the reality we're a bit more familiar with!
The survivors have now been transported to 2007, present day. Juliet tells Miles that "it worked". Is she able to know of the alternate reality now? Is this how dead people speak to Hurley? They're not dead, they're just from another timeline? We shall see.
Smokey tells Ben that he wants to go home. In Season Five, the Temple is assumed to be his home. When did he lose control of it to the Others? What will he do with Richard?
The Others say that the water in the Temple isn't clear. Was it clear when Jacob was still alive? If it is tainted somehow, why does it still heal Sayid?
It is clear now that the ash keeps Smokey away. When Hurley stumbled through it in Season Four at Jacob's cabin, he probably allowed Smokey to infiltrate the Cabin and force Jacob to go to the Statue. Illana said that the Cabin was being used by someone else for a long time = Smokey.
Is this upcoming battle between the Others and Smokey the War that Widmore kept referring to? Does Jacob need Sayid alive so he can help fight? Are the 815 survivors Jacob's soldiers for the War?
HIGHLIGHTS OF THE EPISODE:
1. The introduction to the alternate reality.
2. Smokey killing Jacob's soldiers, confirming that it is the Man in Black.
3. Sawyer kicking Jack into the Swan's crater. That's gotta hurt.
4. It looks like the Others are preparing to defend the Temple from Smokey. Hell yes!
Boom. L O S T.
Oh, & Smokey's description of Locke was great. "I don't understand."
Marebabe: They broke from their long-established pattern of providing subtitles for non-English dialogue. Why d’you suppose there were no subtitles for the Japanese spoken in this episode?
I'm assuming there are such big clues hidden in what they're saying. But they're actually being consistent. Throughout the series, the only time you see subtitles is when everyone can understand them. So if Jin was talking to the group, no subtitles because we couldn't understand them. But if Jin and Sun were alone talking, they gave us subtitles because both of them are following the conversation. So it is consistent.
Sonshine: When Jack looked in the mirror, it was a very Through the Looking Glass moment for me (the book, not the episode) and I swear there were moments Jack ALMOST remembered or knew or crossed that line.
I TOTALLY felt that, too. Whether it was the way he looked at Desmond or Kate or when he looked at himself in the mirror, I certainly wondered about that...
Jack's face, when he realizes the bomb didn't work looked VERY much like Locke's face when he realized the button was real.
I agree. He looked completely distraught and I felt terrible for him.
That was a LOT of chains to keep randomly in the back of a van.
LOL!!! You sound exactly like my husband. He was sitting there saying, "Seriously? They have like EIGHTY FEET OF CHAINS in the back of the van??" Hahaha
What if Sayid isn't raised from the dead? What if Jacob is now in Sayid? If so, I NEVER saw that one coming.
Again, I think my husband is posting under your alias... he thought exactly the same thing. I really like this theory, that if the Man in Black is in Locke, then Jacob is in Sayid.
I fell asleep and woke up thinking about WHAT THE FRAK HAPPENED!!
I always knew MiB was Smokey, it made the most sense.
I really do not think Smokey can inhabit people who are alive, we do not have any evidence that he does, otherwise why would he go through all the trouble of manipulating situations to have a dead Locke?
I am completely loving this incredible new character - Terry O'Quinn is amazing, and he actually had THREE roles in these episodes.
Poor Locke is really dead, I was so sad when FLocke/MiB talked about his last thoughts. He was pathetic in the true meaning of the word. But to have it literally come out of his own mouth, damn.
Of all the things that made me scream, the thing I couldn't handle was a dead Sayid. I didn't look at the previews, so it was possible Sayid was dead in my world, and that world was a dark, sad, ass kicking-challenged world. BUT we have him back. He will lose the innocence of a torturing child killer and became the savior of them all. Only on LOST.
Blam: Who's to say which of these is the original timeline? Okay, the writers are who, but I mean we don't know which if either is the original or "proper" timeline, to be course-corrected towards or preferred by grand multiversal entropy or whatever.
You're absolutely right, but for the purposes of clarity I'm going to refer to the one we know and love as the original, as in it's the original one on the series. But as you say, it's not necessarily the original timeline to them.
Gerald Orr: Great comparison of Not-Locke and ET! It's like the writers needed us to feel sympathy for the Man in Black, so they made him look like Locke... which will definitely do the trick for me! I think Locke's one of the most tragic characters in television history, and now there's another less-sympathetic guy who looks just like him, so it's interesting to actually make it look like him.
@Todd @ Blam: I think we're on to something here. I don't think there are parallel timelines, but rather two parts of the same timeline. Much like the original flashback device, I think the bomb detonated in 1977 reset the crash from ever taking place, noted by Jack flying overhead and the plane landing safely in what I assume is 2004. However many things would be different (hinted at by the possibility of Locke being able to walk and Hurley calling himself "lucky." However, most events between 1977 and 2004 have course corrected to have Oceanic flight 815 be almost the same as it originally was, just without the crash. The events on the island are now 2007, but we only ASSUME that it's also right after the incident. What if course correction takes place and between 2004 and 2007 they all end up right back where they're supposed to, and something else "worked," as Juliet says. I think, in season 6, we're going to witness the wacky adventures that somehow bring everyone 'currently' in the "past"(2004) to the island again, and the end of this epic story involving Jacob and MIB will play out in the "present" (2007). After all, everything leading up to that end is just progress, and it only ends once.
Sorry I'm in a bit of a rush this morning, but more later!
P.S. My wife - and not I - caught on to one little gem. "Good to see you out of those chains, Richard." Did Richard come over on the Black Rock as slave??
@Blam's first comment: I thought that they would show the alternate reality from day 1 (after the Incident).
At first I thought that "Oh, you know, Desmond will still be on the island because he pushed the button", but no?
I was laughing pretty hard at: "I have a gun! And I know how to shoot it!"
That one Other who translates for the Chinese Other looks a lot like John Lennon. Surprisingly enough, his name is Lennon.
At first I thought Richard was the captain or first mate of the Black Rock, but after Not-Locke's comment, "Nice to see you out of those chains, Richard", maybe Richard was a slave on the Black Rock that Jacob pitied.
I LOVED this episode. I'll come back and post more when I get home from school.
Also, both Christian's body and Locke's knives are missing. Maybe they didn't make it through to the parallel timeline? That doesn't even make any sense.
Desmond had a different seat on the plane. Jimmey Kimmel asked Darlton about "coincidences" and he asked if Desmond disappearing when Charlie appearing was coincidence or not, and they said, coincidence.
Amsted: I only hope that with the dead Locke body also being on the island (in addition to the one the MiB is in) that somehow the Locke that we know and love gets to come back to life as well. It sure would be sad knowing that this character who was so heroic in so many ways simply died thinking "I don't understand" and that is the end of him.
It would be such a small ending for such a noble character.
You know, I have to agree... and hope we see Locke have a different ending. And maybe that's what the second timeline is going to show us. If the Man in Black is a good guy somehow, then Locke's destiny WAS actually a noble one, in that it took the one guy who wanted to stay on the island, and if the MiB is a good guy, then Locke was necessary to help the good guys win.
@Gillian At first I thought Richard was the captain or first mate of the Black Rock, but after Not-Locke's comment, "Nice to see you out of those chains, Richard", maybe Richard was a slave on the Black Rock that Jacob pitied.
It's still pretty ambigous though - I can't help thinking Richard was some kind of criminal. After all, it's always so hard to tell who is good and who is bad.
Speaking of which, I also think this season is Ben's moment to redeem himself battling against the MiB. (that's if the MiB is in fact the baddie - God it is all so confusing, and long may it stay that way)
@JS: That doesn't even make any sense.
I'm actually glad that it doesn't make sense. Mystery. How much would it suck if everything made sense from episode 1 of season 6? What the hell would we go on about here if it was all perfectly sensible? :)
Lastly, I love how bad ass Hurley was in this episode. Even though he couldn't use the gun, he was the one who spoke for the group. after the gun, there were no jokey comments from him, he was all business. Hurley is special, I know it!!
And I love that he takes out his head phones on the plane.
@ Batcabbage - yet again we are on the same page!
@JS: I love how bad ass Hurley was in this episode.
That, and he was in a RED SHIRT THE WHOLE EPISODE! AND LIVED! Totally badass!
@batcabbage - I, too, am happy, it would be too easy if it were direct and I could figure it out after so little sleep. But awesome if that somehow did happen. I cannot wait until the two timelines come together.
I love that the two things that impact their direction the most in season one are the things they "lost" from the plane.
OOOHHH Lost is BACK!!!!!
@Ali: Great minds, my friend. Great minds.
@JS: OOOHHH Lost is BACK!!!!!
I know how you feel. I had to wait until Batkitty came home from work today after I procured the premiere by totally legitimate means (cough!internet rules!cough!), and I was buzzing the whole time, trying not to watch. I waited. It was hard. YAY LOST!
Anyone else flash to Temple of Doom / Apocalypse Now when they arrive at the temple?
I think that Christian's body and Locke's knives are in the same place my husband's suitcases were when he got back from Denmark. I'm so relieved we can take a bigger carry-on again. I hate checking bags.
When MIB took over locke- he took over his identity, not his body. Dead Locke is still in the sand.So I am waffling on whether or not Jacob has taken over Sayid, since it involves his body, not just his identity.
Wow. That's about all I have to say this morning. Just ... wow. *mind blown/must find fusebox*
Great job on that radio interview last night, Nik! I'm glad I tuned in early to make sure the livestream was working as you wound up going on at 11:40. So, tell us the truth ... WHY haven't you been calling that poor DJ all these years? ; ]
I'm up to my ears in a huge work project today so I want to say thanks to everybody for covering all the important comments on last night's fabulous premiere.
Could anything be more emblematic of the "new" 2004 timeline than Hurley's line, "Nothing bad ever happens to me, dude. I'm the luckiest man in the world". W.O.W.
OMG! What an awesome episode. And I see that as usual I'm late to the party, I was exhausted and wanted to post last night but had to wake up for work, dammit, work just interferes with my Lost world!
I apologize in advance, as usual, I'm sure I have points that have been brought up by Nikki and the rest of her blog family.
Alternate timelines:
- I love the concept although I find it even more mind boggling following two simultaneous storylines...but ever seen the movie Sliding Doors with Gwyneth Paltrow? They did the same thing, I love how you can just do something slightly different and your future changes. They also tackle this issue on Being Erica
- There must be some form of consciousness where one timeline is aware of the other. I agree with you Nikki, Juliet saying the stuff about the coffee and "It worked" implies that the two timelines are connected
-It is most interesting to me that the bomb reset the timeline but also altered things before the flight, such as Locke going on the Walkabout (he could have been lying), Shannon not agreeing to be on the flight, and yes where was Ana Lucia, Libby and Mr. Eko, were they just not shown or they weren't on the flight?
- In the original, Charlie only wanted to get a fix, never intended on suicide, the "I was supposed to die" is another possible link or awareness of the other timeline
- They took the time to fix everyone's hair except Sawyer's (even Jack's), resetting time resets hairstyles, you'd think they would try to recreate everything as much as possible, even Rose's conversation with Jack was a bit altered, was this done on purpose?
Timeline 1: Reset time
- I gather that the bomb sunk the island based on the 4 toed statue at the bottom of the ocean...what a cool opening, I was breathless
- It is so cool how Kate got away but trying open up a secure set of cuffs with a pen? LOL Kate was dumb to just stand there at the taxi stand...ho hum...she is supposedly so good at running too!
- Looks like Sawyer is going to try to con poor Hurley in the future
- The bruise on Jack's neck, was it just a shave burn or was it somehow related to his injuries from the before the bomb went off? He seemed to be very comtemplative more than if it was just a shave mark
- Ultra cool with Bernard coming back from the bathroom and in general lots of easter eggs and winks to die hard fans!
- Desmond being on the plane, his sudden disappearance made me think, maybe he is Smokey, he's not real?
Timeline 2: No Reset Time
- I loved how Locke turned into Smocke! "I'm sorry you had to see me like that"...you kill me!
- Nice to see that the ash thing was handled, so that explains the cabin. I loved how even through the ash, Smocke was able to knock Bram out of the circle and kill him...
- who are these Nomad Others (?Nothers ?) They seem to have been here way longer than the other Others!
- You'd think Jack would learn after 3 seasons of being wrong wrong wrong...but the hits just keep on coming!
- Sayid coming back alive is interesting...looks like from the previews they are going to torture him...no wonder, the way the Man in Black/Smokey got into Locke was after he died and mysteriously was resurrected...I gather they are going to try to do an exorcism of sorts
- I totally expected Claire to come out of the temple but it was awesome to see her
- Damn you Darlton for making us and Sawyer suffer through Juliet dying twice!!! *weep*
- The "list" comes back up again...cool!
- it was totally awesome to see Ben get his comeuppance after so many times of mental torture of Locke, he is the one being tortured! YAY!
I'll have to take some time and read everyone's posts. I'm so glad we are back. Nikki thanks for being our guide once again (for the last time...sigh...)
My head hurts to much to write anything but HOLY CRAP I LOVED IT at the moment.
:P
BIG BUCKS, NO WHAMMIES!
Thanks for the great post Nikki!
Boy, did they deliver some answers, or what? Now we get to follow the timeline we are invested in AND we get to watch the parallel-gang and all the subtle changes the split has wrought. Genius.
@ Sonshinemusic:
"So, when Ben summoned Smokey, he actually appeared right away, just in his Locke suit."
Locke suit = Hahahaha!
I'm pretty sure that when Juliet talks about going dutch for coffee, she is seeing the other timeline, like when Charlotte tells Daniel she's not allowed to have chocolate before dinner.
Clearly things have changed in 2004. Jack only gets one bottle of vodka from Cindy, and Hurley tells Sawyer that he's the luckiest guy in the world. I really thought John would get up and walk off the plane too.
When I saw Claire in the cab it occurred to me that she must be alive on the island, because she appeared WITH Christian/MIB. He can only be seen as one thing at a time, therefore I believe Claire can't be dead, but why is she with MIB?
@Erin: It would follow that if the Island blew up in 1977, then Penny and Daniel were never born. Let's see how THAT works out!
@ Batcabbage: "Smeg" Hahaha! I totally forgot to list "RED DWARF" as one of my all-time favourite t.v. shows!
If Desmond was never on the Island to press the button in the new timeline, then he wouldn't have experienced the *flash* that enabled his consciousness to travel through time; therefore, he shouldn't be able to appear on the plane one moment and disappear the next, no?
This is going to be the most awesomest season ever!
Tanyam
Ok all of you, I didn't know about this site or any others for that matter during the first 5 seasons. After the "Incident" I started rewatching on my own. After I was done with that re-watch, I started over again and found out that there was a lost blogging community along with an official lost re-watch. I had so many questions and no answers. I found Jopinionated first and reading her during the rewatch was fabulous. One day I read a comment from someone on her blog and it sent me here. I have been here and with Jo ever since. Thank you Nikki and Jo. This is my first comment and I hope I can get it all out right.
First off, I was absolutely giddy all day. Avoided all spoilers leading up to last night and am very thankful for that. It was kind of like Christmas, but way better. At Christmas, you're relieved and tired. You have fun with it all for about an hour, and then all you think about is how you have to start cleaning up the mess. I was actually more keyed up AFTER watching "LA X" then I was before it and I couldn't sleep. But I tried. In vain.
I'm with all of you on the Desmond thing. He was there and then he wasn't. He seemed pretty at peace with himself too. But is he still "singularly and uniquely special?" We'll have to see.
I have ALWAYS been with Jack. He drove me nuts many times, but it was always for a good reason (at least he thought so) and he did what he thought was right. I was crushed for him after Juliet died and he realized he had "failed."
Hurley has a purpose. I knew it, but was thrilled to see Jacob talk to him again. I like the comment someone here made about the alternate timeline already being how the others communicated with Hurley.
That comment Cindy made about the "first flight 815" threw me for a loop and at first I didn't catch it. Just thought she meant the mid-section of the plane. But now...WOW.
I love Jin. And I'm telling you, that VW van bumper would have come flying off immediately with the weight of the steel beem behind it.
Still waiting to figure out what it means by "they're coming." Jack, Kate, et. al? Another question.
Ok. Until I watch again, I may not be able to come up with anything new...but here's my crazy theory that no one else has yet aluded to. At the end when we think that Sayid is dead, and then they flash back to the statue and MIB/Smokey/NL and he's berating all of them..."I am so disappointed in all of you." He slings Richard over his shoulder and the camera pans past dead Locke's body on the beach one more time. All of a sudden we're back at the temple. Lennon calls out Shephard, (don't know why yet...Christian connection, Claire?) a scuffle ensues, and all of a sudden...SAYID. He says, "What happened?" Many of you are thinking Jacob is in Sayid. I think real Locke is in Sayid. On the third day he rose again.....Crazy, I know. Ajira 316 landed on Hydra Island in the daytime. Then Ben, Sun, Frank, Not Locke went to new otherton in the evening. The next day they started the expedition in Follow the Leader. They ended up there in the evening. By the end of last night's episode, it was daytime again. The THIRD day that Locke had been back to the healing island. SO...could he be back? Not with Terry O'Quinn, but with Naveen Andrews as Locke? Jacob said, if this guy doesn't make it, the others are all in a lot of trouble. Is Sayid gone? I don't know. Locke is still supposed to be pivitol. That's my crazy theory. I don't care if I'm wrong, and I love Sayid and would hate to lose him, but I hope I find out what a nut I am or am not soon. Like next week. Bring it on.
Awesome episode...
@Blam - I, too, am intrigued by Juliet's (via Miles) last statement. How DOES she know "it worked"??
@EamonnToGetLost - I also love the allegory between what Sayid did to Ben by shooting him and forcing Kate and Sawyer to take him to the temple (for baptism? rebirth?) and what Hurley did for Sayid after he was shot by Ben's dad. Crazy parallelism in those events.
@Blam (again) - Lostpedia is reporting the storytelling device for Season 6 is the "flash sideways."
My own thoughts -
1. So sad not to see Happy-Jin-and-Sun in the 2007 timeline at LAX. And Sun was presented with the perfect opportunity to save Jin a lot of time and trouble: tell the agent you speak English, already! Why didn't she, I wonder?
2. Should we assume all characters have the same problems they came to Island with? Locke can't walk in the 2007 sideways timeline (despite the teasers - damn you, Darlton). Charlie is still an addict. So, is Jack an alcoholic? Does Rose still have cancer?
3. What about folks who didn't come to the Island as part of 815? Will we see what would have been happening with Miles, Daniel, Charlotte, Juliet - hell, even Naomi - in the 2007 alternate timeline?
4. What is the significance of Sayid being resurrected/reborn/baptized in temple pool water that was a) red, and b) unable to heal a cut on Genghis Otherton's hand? (Sorry, stole the name from BatCabbage but it's too great to ignore.)
5. Personal rant at the end - I love Juliet. Love, love, love her. And was pretty ticked I had to watch a recap of her falling into the hole three times between the one-hour preview to the premiere and the "Previously on Lost" lead-in only to see her found alive... AND THEN DIE IN SAWYER'S ARMS. That was too much for my poor emotions (and tear ducts).
Love this blog; thanks for letting being such a great discussion forum.
Oops, sorry - these dueling timelines already have me hot and bothered (and confused). I meant the "2004" (not 2007) alternate timeline with our favorite Lost folks from 815 landing in LAX.
@Lisa(until further notice) - I thought Cindy's comment about 815 was to clarify that they were from 815 and not Ajira 316 rather than implying that there is a second 815 crash - anyone else?
Also, I see that everyone seems to be adapting to the "Flashsideways" idea, but I kept referring to the 2004 storyline as the "bizarro storyline"
Forgive my redundancy here, but I just wanted to remind the Nik at Nite community that there's still time to pick up a nifty LOST pin and support a good cause. The link below will take you to Partners in Health, where you can help the earthquake survivors in Haiti AND support your LOST accessory habit all in one fell swoop!
http://act.pih.org/page/outreach/view/haitiearthquake/watchuscare
Partners in Health is rated very highly when it comes to translating your donation dollars directly into aid with a bare minimum of administration costs. Check them out for yourselves and you'll be reminded that generosity of spirit is a good development in ANY timeline. ; ]
EamonnToGetLost: And all this time we've seen the conniving, lying adult Ben...it really hasn't been the REAL Ben at all?
That's pretty much been my theory for a few months now. I believe the little sweet boy we see as a youngster perhaps had it in him to do conniving things (think of the burning VW van going into Dharmaville with no thought of who it might hurt) but his complete lack of morals is because in the Temple he was reborn as someone without them.
Sayid, on the other hand, is a torturer and a murderer, and while he's also a lover, at the end he was convinced he was the killer Ben Linus told him he was. So if HE goes into the Temple and switches over, there's a chance he'll be the opposite of who he was and we'll see a very different Sayid walking around.
@ Lisa(until further notice): I too couldn't sleep afterward. We'll just have to get used to drowsy wednesdays, I suppose.
I'm a fan of Jack's as well. I never had the same hate-on that a lot of fans nurtured over the years. Maybe it's because Matthew Fox is such a good actor IMO.
I caught that comment by Cindy about the "first flight", and was intrigued, but I think I'm just going to wait that answer out.
"I love Jin. And I'm telling you, that VW van bumper would have come flying off immediately with the weight of the steel beem behind it." Hahaha! I thought that too!
@ Leslie C: I'm pretty sure the alternate timeline takes place in 2004. Hard to keep all these dates rattling around in our heads! I'm sure we'll see Juliet again. Maybe in 2004? Obviously Darlton can do whatever they want. They always have!
Tanyam
Eamonn: we were about to also see several bodies on the island come suddenly to life because of Jack and Juliet's actions, and that Nikki and Paolo's bodies would be suffused with life, and they would dig their way out of the graves
Haha!! You know, when Sayid and Jack were reviving Charlie, I said to my husband, "Do you think we'll see Nikki and Paulo on the plane? Because technically they're alive and well now." He said no way, the writers probably want everyone to forget that storyline ever existed and they'll never bring them back. I said, "That would be too bad... I'd love to see them on the plane again."
Then thought, "Wait... did *I* just say that?"
I think I've actually come to love their storyline because of how awful it was, and I just want to see them come back to life so I can watch them die all over again. BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!
Blam: And I bet you were hoping that Nikki & Paulo would be waiting in front of the taxi line in just the right spot to get run over by Kate's commandeered cab. That's right, Madame Stafford: Somewhere, Nikki & Paulo are alive. They're aliiiiive! Unless they're dead.
Heehee! See my comment above. Oh Blam, I wish you were a writer on Lost and had written that scene in just for me. It would have been my highlight of the season. ;)
Superb. Man, I adore these guys.
I was up late with sick kids last night, and then I came into work and went right into a 2-hour meeting this morning, so I know I'm late to the party here, and I hope I'm not re-treading too much ground with these comments, as I haven't read all 80+ before posting this...
I think we're definitely dealing with only 2 timelines here: 2004 (the bomb worked, and 815 didn't crash) and 2007 (where the DI Gang have been inserted into the current, post-Ajira story). The hatch site where they find themselves all treed and/or ear-ringy is the same as after the IMplosion, not the EXplosion, as evidenced by the telltale debris drawn into the crater rather than blown out of it (did anyone else notice the stationary bike as Sawyer dug through the rubble to get to Juliet?). If those two timelines hadn't become concurrent, then Richard never would have seen the fireworks flare sent from the temple as he stood down on the beach, waiting for NonJohn to pop out of Tawaret's sandal and blow his mind.
A few questions:
-- Does his conversation with Jacob earmark Hurley as the new leader of The Others?
-- And what about the Japanese guy? My brother pointed out that we've never gotten any kind of explanation for how a Scandinavian family ended up with a Japanese name like Hanso...
-- Was Charlie attempting suicide by swallowing the baggie? I would think he'd have just flushed it if he was merely trying to get rid of it...
-- Anybody else think Kate might be the one who delivers Claire's baby, after all?
Wow. Look at me sneaking in my comment while I am work (forbidden!) But I wanted to jump on it before there was a bunch of comments—and look! There's already 71! Unreal!
On Parallel Realities: I love you Darlton, and I love a reality where Charlie lives, even if he is an ass to Jack for saving him. Poor Charlie. I hope his alternate reality doesn't include a downward spiral and nothing else, especially when we got to see him grow so much on the island. (I know, he got creepy and weird there for a bit, but in the end, he redeemed himself.)
Do you think that Juliet knew that somewhere out there, they were all living in an alternate reality where the plane never crashed? And that's what she meant by, "It worked"?
OK—I plan to write a whole lot more, plus read everyone's awesome comments (sorry if I doubled anything in my comment above). But that's what I wanted to say for now. Want to say so much more, but as I mentioned, I am at work!
Back to the grind! LOL
Sonshine: Did anyone else wonder if Desmond was actually ever there. When Jack returned he was gone and no one else seems to have seen him. Was be consciousness/time/dimensionally travelling?
o_O
WHOA. I didn't think of that, but it's my new favourite theory... it would make perfect sense that somehow in this new timeline Desmond figured out how to harness his specialness and is using it. I love it!!
Nikki: I'm sure to miss-quote him, but Sayid asked Hurley "What will happen to me after I die?" I guess we all get to find out.
@Leslie C: I see you course corrected yourself before my comment. apologies for not seeing that.
Tanyam
Fred: Great comments as usual!
There was that line by Cindy about the survivors being of the plane this time around, or something like that, as if she knew there were alternate outcomes.
I took that line to mean she was referring to the Oceanic 815 flight (the original plane) instead of the Ajira 316 flight, which had landed more recently. In the Temple they're probably aware of both crashes, and she was differentiating between the two. But you're right, she could have been referring to something else!
redeem: I hope somewhere there's a me getting enough sleep. ;)
LOL!!! No kidding, and I had that EXACT same thought this morning! Oh, Lost fans... we are so united in our craziness. My son let me sleep for about 5 hours on Sunday night, so I tried to go to bed early on Monday but he was under the weather so I got to sleep around 12:30 and had to be up at 6 for an early interview with a radio station. Then I tried to have a nap in the afternoon but got a call saying I had another interview and I was worried I'd sleep through it so I stayed up, and then was up until about 2 with the blog and then was up again at 6:45 for another interview. I'm going to bed at 8 tonight. ;)
Tim: We will never again see a Season Premier. WWAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!
AAAAHHH!! I never thought of that. Now I'm immensely sad. :(
I also was annoyed that they made Sawyer essentially lose Juliet twice, BUT rewatching just now, I've been given a glimmer that Sawyer might not be the bitter, hopeless soul we saw last night forever....maybe. I agree that the whole "we could have coffee" is like Charlotte's "chocolate before dinner" and that Juliet has "traveled" to another time(line) and is conversing with the Sawyer there about visiting Starbucks. That's why she tells him - via Miles - that it worked when at the beginning of that scene she is just so sure that it didn't.
The two timelines are not concurrent. One is in 2004 and one is in 2007.
Great show and, as always, great recap! You rock, Nikki.
Ben Meets Dead Locke: did anyone else yell "....and DeadLocke... OPENS HIS EYES!" at the tv? It was a lapse of Lost logic on my part but what the hay.
I love the music on Lost so I have to give the composer and orchestra a shout-out.
Some of my Fav Musical Moments:
1. The awesome Adventure/Expedition Sonata (from Lost Past...like traveling to the radio tower). It is loved and hated(@Nikki). haha!
2.The Sad Piano Solo played primarily when someone is dieing (Juliet) or really really bummed. Oh sad piano solo- you get me everytime.
3. The violin high-note squeal which seemed to fill the void of the missing-in-action time-flash swooshy sound (may that sound rest in peace). Sqweeeeeeeeeeeee!
4. The Broken Guitar String (or a string heavily plucked)- when something goes awry: Ga-THONG!
My hats off to those rockin Lost musicians!
asiancolossus: I love the concept although I find it even more mind boggling following two simultaneous storylines...but ever seen the movie Sliding Doors with Gwyneth Paltrow? They did the same thing, I love how you can just do something slightly different and your future changes. They also tackle this issue on Being Erica
A couple of people mentioned Sliding Doors already. I love that movie (I remember LOVING Gwyneth's hair in it, and I wanted hair like that so badly...) It's a movie that's been referenced alongside Lost for a while now, actually, but last night's episode certainly moved directly into that territory.
The bruise on Jack's neck, was it just a shave burn or was it somehow related to his injuries from the before the bomb went off? He seemed to be very comtemplative more than if it was just a shave mark
I agree. For now it's a razor cut, but it could end up being so much more. I thought exactly the same thing as you.
Smokey is very bad and can only appear in human form if they're dead people. And he has to get other people to do his dirty work (like Ben killing Jacob.)
Therefore Smokey is the first evil. They need a scythe.
tanyam: BIG BUCKS, NO WHAMMIES!
LOL!!! Best intro line to a comment EVER.
Lisa: Welcome to the blog! It's great to have you here, and your debut post was excellent! :)
Many of you are thinking Jacob is in Sayid. I think real Locke is in Sayid.
Great thought... and it also brought up something I forgot to mention in the post last night: Why does "Lennon" want Jack to come with them, and Jack alone? Why can't they talk to him here? Does it have something to do with Christian? Could HE be waiting in the other room?
Ack, what do you MEAN I have to wait 6 more days?! ;)
Lesley C: Personal rant at the end - I love Juliet. Love, love, love her. And was pretty ticked I had to watch a recap of her falling into the hole three times between the one-hour preview to the premiere and the "Previously on Lost" lead-in only to see her found alive... AND THEN DIE IN SAWYER'S ARMS. That was too much for my poor emotions (and tear ducts).
My exact words to my husband on the third fall: "Oh my god, how many times do I have to see that poor woman fall down the shaft? It killed me the first time and it AIN'T getting any easier! Wah."
What is the significance of Sayid being resurrected/reborn/baptized in temple pool water that was a) red, and b) unable to heal a cut on Genghis Otherton's hand?
Another excellent question (and yes, Batcabbage, EXCELLENT moniker!!) and I thought the same thing. If the water can't heal a cut, how could it heal Sayid? There's definitely some significance to why they allowed him to still go into the water if they weren't sure it would heal him.
That's what happens when you can't access a blog for 10 hours, 87 comments!
What I loved here is how we had never wondered what everyone's lives would be when they got to LA. We thought there was an end to their interesting lives as they borded 815, but the truth is, these people still have a story to tell.
Kate ending up with Claire in the cab, Jack having issues with his the coffin (and his mom). There were so many continuation of character stories. Was Locke indeed "pulling Boone's leg" (his unfortunate words)? Where is the coffin, certainly not on the island, underwater.
The saddest part for me was not seeing how Locke had been used all his life to get there, but Charlie. How he had redeemed himself, helped claire and cheated death, eventually sacrificing himself to help his friends; only to be arrested after being saved by Jack (again!). After all we had seen him go through, to have this anticlimactic story.
The most important word uttered in this episode are probably Juliet's through Miles: It worked!. The question is how she knows. There has always been this aspect of Juliet and how she knows more than she lets on... could this apply here as well. She realizes what is happening.
Why I'm still not sold on Atlantis. Atlantis sank in ancient times, this Island sank in '77 (or we're most likely to currently beleive it did). Atlantis was not only an island but a city-state, quite unlike the island.
The dialogue between Jack and Locke was quite telling of their relationship. They have always had different and conflicting views. On the island, Locke seemed to always have the upper hand/right answer, but in the 'real world', Jack may just have that role. It was interesting how they shook hands: sincere, beginning a mutual friendship. Was it not the first time that they had shook hands during the entire show?
It was quite conforting to see Cindy again, she had been missing for three years (which would explain why she's now wearing hippies clothes and has integrated the Others). This may subtly answer questions about the "why them" fromt eh fist plane (815 v. 316)
@Erin: on the Jacob/Nemesis transpose. When he tells him "Do you know how much I want to kill you?", he had also reffered to him as Jacob just prior. While the transpose theory is interesting and possible, I don't think it had happened by then.
@redeem47: I think this is bigger than time paradoxes. One timeline (2007) shows us Novikov self-consistency (whatever happened, happened) while the other (2004) is what has been altered (the Moebius loop time history comes to mind). What I believe one underlying idea of season 6 is: the losties (those on the list) will be given a choice to live as they have known, or never having come to the island. They will have the chance to change their lives as it has been determined - though the method/on-screen vehicle may not be as direct.
Too much to say... too many comments to read! Will have to be back.
Joshua: And what about the Japanese guy? My brother pointed out that we've never gotten any kind of explanation for how a Scandinavian family ended up with a Japanese name like Hanso...
Great question! I'd love to finally put the Hanso thing to rest once and for all with a good solid answer. And I also love your speculation that maybe Hurley is the new leader of the Others!!
Was Charlie attempting suicide by swallowing the baggie? I would think he'd have just flushed it if he was merely trying to get rid of it...
I think he was just being stupid and thought if he swallowed it he'd hide the evidence, and getting it caught in his throat was a mistake. But I could be wrong...
Anybody else think Kate might be the one who delivers Claire's baby, after all?
Ooh... good one!! Or what if Kate and Claire are together now and something happens to Claire, forcing Kate to become Aaron's mommy again?
Elle: Ben Meets Dead Locke: did anyone else yell "....and DeadLocke... OPENS HIS EYES!" at the tv? It was a lapse of Lost logic on my part but what the hay.
LOL! Actually, I did it on the final close-up, when Not-Locke has Richard over one shoulder and the camera panned to Locke... I actually muttered, "Wake up!" ;)
Benny: Why I'm still not sold on Atlantis. Atlantis sank in ancient times, this Island sank in '77 (or we're most likely to currently beleive it did). Atlantis was not only an island but a city-state, quite unlike the island.
I agree, actually. I think they were referencing Atlantis, but they're not saying it IS the lost city of Atlantis. It's just an Atlantis-type occurrence. ;)
In reference to Atlantis, I think that the show has referenced so many mythological images but it definitely is nothing we've ever heard of. It is its own entity.
In the end, tt could still be something, but it would rather be more impressive that it's something constructed by the writers out of many different myths.
That was worth the wait.
As far as I can tell, the bomb going off did two things: 1) It forced the Dharma folk to pour a lot of concrete over the site as we were told in "Everyone Hates Hugo" in Season Two. and 2) It flashed all the Losties ahead thirty years, with one Dharma van in tow.
The only evidence that the bomb is connected to the alternative timeline is that Julliet tells Sawyer that it worked. But that could be open for debate. Time will tell.
Does Jack in the new timeline know something is up? How does he recognize Desmond? Where did Desmond disappear to?
Widmore was on the island in 1977 and we can maybe assume that he died somehow. Therefore never having a sailboat race that Desmond would enter, not to mention no Penny. The question I ask is Why was Desmond in Australia? Or is Jack seeing things? And seeing Desmond because he is special (according to Daniel). So how would Jack know Desmond, he wouldn't. Which means that he is remembering him from the other timeline somehow.
Seeing the island on the bottom of the ocean was unexpected. How did it get down there and why? I saw a swing set as the camera was zooming around, so it happened after 1977.
This is only covering the first ten minutes. OMG
What's happened to Rose and Bernard after the everyone was brought back to 2007? Did their shelter/supplies also jump with them? Will they get to meet Jacob? Will they live happily on the island? Were they left behind by the island and will become Adam and Eve?
While they are not compelling characters, they are jsut so human and can't help but wonder and want the best for them. They are comfort characters to teh best.
Speaking of Rose and Bernard. She wasn't wearing his ring around her necklace. Are things that different in this new timeline.
Plus does anyone else get the feeling that Sawyer is going to target Hurley for his money.
@Brandon: Is this how dead people speak to Hurley? They're not dead, they're just from another timeline?
This makes me think, maybe when you die on the Island, or your dead body lands on the Island, you are able to cross between realities. Because the dead people know they are dead in their original timeline, but maybe the Island gives them a "special" ability to cross into other timelines, or to have full knowledge of all the different timeline possibilities?
Does this even make sense? I am loving the brain strain sensation!
Also a first I believe, Jack appologized to Sawyer: "I'm sorry, I thought it would work."
And it was definitely sincere, he definitely taking it upon his shoulders.
Also, Rushdie's Haroun and the Sea of Secrets seems to be a goldmine for hints and allusions to the island! May it provide a hint as to the nature of Desmond in this episode?
Comment 108, booyah! Just saying!
word: nasters = nadia + sayid shippers!
@Nikki - I'm so glad that my mom, sister and I aren't the only ones who have tried desperately for the Sliding Doors haircut! We've all tried it at one time or another over the years, and it never quite turns out! It's the bangs! Darn bangs never work out!
I loved the shot of the island underwater - so completely unexpected! And seeing Ezra Sharkington the Dharma shark made me so happy!
Not sure if it's spoilery (I didn't think so, but I'm not much of a spoilerphobe) but there's an interview on ew.com with Damon and Carlton talking about the LA X that is pretty interesting.
@Nikki. Thanks for the welcome. Warm fuzzies.
Ok. Onward. A few more thoughts. Juliet, Juliet, Juliet. 3 death scenes? Zack and Emma...little servents?
Alternate time-line Sun floored me. Was she afraid of Jin knowing she spoke English, or was this her out? Jin gets detained in LA and she's outta there? She had the lying look on her face like she did when her dad asked her if she broke the glass ballerina and she lied about that too. She gave in and got on the plane in Sidney, but was she having second thoughts again? Will she be able to conceive? I also thought she might have always been pregnant from that yicky bald guy and Juliet was wrong when reading her sonogram. When they flew back on Ajira 316 and Eloise had told them that conditions had to be as close to the first flight as possible I thought to myself...well, Sun's not pregnant like she was before. And that's why she ended up in 2007 with Frank and Ben instead of in 1977 with Jack and Company.
Loved Richard man-handling Ben to show him Locke's corpse.
Christian and Claire questions...they can't both be Smokey.
Jacob said no-one else will be able to see him. Damon and Carlton also said Jacob has never presided in someone else's dead or otherwise body. That's what still makes me question him being in Sayid. If Sayid is Sayid, I don't think he will be the same. He will be different.
Will the writers actually try to fit 3 somewhat condensed altertate time-line years to the 815ers while we stay in 2007 on the island and then the two world collide? I can't see how there is time, but I am looking forward to the ride.
@Lesley C: So sad not to see Happy-Jin-and-Sun
Me too! I almost wanted to cry over that because I love how Jin progressed and he went from one of my least favorite to one of my most favorite characters. ::tear::
@Nikki: so I can watch them die all over again
I thought the same thing about Frogurt. I was thinking, can we please see him die another flaming arrow death! Or something even worse!
And how absolutely thrilled am I that my normal day off is Wednesday, so I can stay up late on Tuesdays without any guilt :)
Also another random thought I had while trying (vainly) to fall asleep early this morning ...
When Ben goes to be judged, Smokey Alex tells him to do exactly what Locke told him to do. But Locke was actually FLocke and therefore Smokey. So Smokey told Ben to obey Smokey. Weird.
I had anticipated being just a spectator during S6, but, alas, here I am.
1) Not only did they have “nearly 80 feet of chain” in the van, but the bumper on that Vdub must have been super glued on.
2) The guitar case being used to simply deliver a note was kind of a let down for me.
3) When Juliet was talking about the cup of coffee it seemed that she thought she was talking to someone else at first.
4) The Smoke monster/Locke probably has access to the foot through a tunnel system connecting it to the temple.
5) Sawyer kicking Jack into the pit was like UnLocke kicking Jacob into the fire. I think Jack will be taken over by Jacob.
6) What if everyone on the island actually died and has been reincarnated or taken over by someone/something else. That’s why they were chosen/needed in the first place.
7) Showing Juliet “die” so many times and then showing up on an ad for Flash Forward was kind of irritating.
8) Speaking of ads, does anyone miss being able to watch episodes commercial free?
@ Lisa(until further notice): "Christian and Claire questions...they can't both be Smokey."
Yeah, I thought this as well. When I saw Claire in the cab it jogged my memory about the speculation whether or not she was dead. I'm pretty sure they have demonstrated that Smokey can only be in one dead body at a time. Therefore Claire lives. All these rules!
Tanyam
Regarding the chains in the van, it was also a rather large pile of chains that pulled Juliet into the hole.
Also, I definitely wanted to at least catch a glimpse of Nikki and Paulo on the plane.
Interesting connection. In Haroun and the Sea of Stories, there is a moon called Kahani (sounds like Kahana).
Of this moon: "At the South Pole of Kahani is a spring known as the Source of Stories, from which (according to the premise of the plot) originated all stories ever communicated. The prevention of this spring's blockage therefore forms the climax of the novel's own story."
Dogan and Lennon ask for Sayid to be brought to the spring, and we know that Lost has referenced many mythologies/stories on the island throughout its run! And now we are shown the spring, which is no longer clear, it is contaminated/infected.
There are also some similarities with characters across the two, though not exact corresponding charactes, obviously.
Ben didn't know it was Smokey telling him to obey Smokey/Locke. He didn't know they were the same at the time.
Are we assuming there is only ONE Smoke monster?
THIS IS BRANDON BY THE WAY. FOR SOME REASON I HAVE TO RESET MY PASSWORD EVERYTIME I BLOG.
Whether or not Jacob is in Sayid is a very difficult thing to determine. We have to remember 2 very important differences:
1. MIB is not "in" Locke, he has the shape of Locke. Locke is a dead body on the beach.
2. Jacob IS "in" Sayid (presumably) and that IS Sayid's body, not a mimic of it.
What do you guys think?
- Brandon 815
@paleoblues
I like your point about Jacob eventually controlling Jack (or something like that). The producers said this season will focus heavily on the Jack/Locke relationship, and it'd be cool to see their feud come to that point.
- BRANDON
Brandon- I agree with you - i mentioned this earlier, but it got buried amongst the mass posts!
I agree, Smokey/MIB hasn't taken over Locke's body - mimicked it. This could prove to be significant in debunking thoughts that Smokey is also impersonating Christian or Claire, since neither of their bodies have been found.
@ashlie: Yes, could be very helpful, in the case of Claire especially. I'm not sure about Christian.
He died off island (just like Locke) and has appeared in two different forms.
1. Suit christian with white tennis shoes; to Jack (on/off island), to Hurley (Cabin). And to Vincent, talking to him!
2. Cabin christian; to Claire and Locke - on island only.
There is a lot to be learned. Possibly more interesting is Christian's story, since he is only a back/side-story character.
I just had an interesting thought: I totally agree with the previous comments regarding Reboot Desmond that imply he seemed to just disappear into thin air (I thought the same thing at the time) and am intrigued by the idea that he might be capable of and/or knowledgeable about some timeline shenanigans that will only be revealed later.
But how about this -- assuming that the Reboot timeline is a history in which Jughead explodes, and both Widmore and Eloise are killed in the ensuing devastation, is it conceivable that this new Des is somehow the new course-correction replacement for Ring-Shop-and-Lamp-Post-Station Time Cop Eloise?
WORD VERIFICATION: stfury -- the unparalleled wrath of LOST fans to be visited upon poor Darlton if we get anything like the 'St. Elsewhere' ending in May.
That's a total of 6 Deadwood alums that have appeared on LOST now. Clearly, someone in casting was a huge fan. I wish there'd been a way to work Ian McShane in... :)
About the wheelchair/ using the bathroom on the 16-hour flight...Nikki, my stepdad was in a wheelchair. Men can use a device that lets you urinate while sitting there. Sorry for the graphic detail, but I thought I'd clear up at least one mystery!
Did anyone else expect the new Others to break into a coordinated dance/ song medley? Their outfits were just a little too matchy-matchy.
The line Juliet delivers about "coffee...let's go Dutch" will be revisited in a future episode showing Juliet and Sawyer meeting for coffee in the other timeline.
Awesome review! Thanks for the insight ;)
Primero, Nikki, amazing recap and extra amazing that you've done all this so quickly and all in your 'free' time, if that exists with a family!! This is my first time to read your posts of 'live' eps - I've only read the Rewatch posts so far. Congrats on such a huge fandom - when I first logged in at 0830 there were already 77 comments and now 117! WOW!
Second, what fab comments! I recognize lots of you wonderful folks from the Rewatch and have loved hearing the thoughts from so many other very well-informed people! As usual I am laughing, nodding my head in agreement and often thinking 'great idea, never thought of that'! You guys da bomb!
Loved seeing Arzt and Frogurt again! Did yall notice Arzt was carrying a guidebook to insects? And I too missed seeing Michael, Walt, Shannon, Libby, AL & Eko on the new dimension 815. Even in the recap show before the premiere these folks were left out along with Rousseau & Mikhail.
We now know for certain that Smokey is an alternative form of an actual person, but what person? Is he MIB/Locke or Jacob? Is he good or bad? Is he truly an island protection system? I'm still not convinced of which one is good, which one is bad. The white clothing/light features of Jacob = good opposed to the dark/dark of MIB = bad just seems too obvious for LOST! I still have a crazy feeling that we're being conned by that, as are possibly Ben and Richard! I have no clue who is inhabiting who's body!! @erin - your husband may be on to something!
@sonshine & @nikki - Yes, so many chains to be kept in the back of a VW Jesus bus but you lots more space when your chains are so light weight and thin. Did you notice how 'plasticky' they looked and sounded?!
@anonymous - Sliding Doors is also one of my favs!! My husband is British and he was very impressed with Gwyneth's accent, but then again Gwyneth can do no wrong in his eyes!!
@gerald orr - ET! Even 30+ years later I cry like a little girl!!
@js - John's guns and Christian's coffin both missing have got to mean something! Maybe like the guitar case the containers will be used for more giant ankhs with mysterious lists!
What was the deal with the hourglass used by Genghis Otherton (kudos BatCabbage) in the Temple? The baptism/healing/exorcism/whatever of Sayid must have needed precisely that amount of time? And as several folks mentioned, what was the deal with the water not being clear and not healing GO? And why were all the Templedwellers dressed like pirates?
@ joshua - Yes, I was expecting Claire to go into labor in the cab when Kate held the gun to the cabbies head!! there's still time!!
I probably don't remember correctly but wasn't Jin taking a watch to Australia, not bringing one back? And it's interesting that Jin has a big envelope of money where Sun had it in the previous dimension to pay for her new life in America. (maybe that part's wrong too - please correct me!!)
And I too was so hopeful that John wasn't paralyzed in the new dimension! I really feel he was lying to Boone about taking the walkabout. But wouldn't Boone have noticed that John never got up or even moved once during a 16 hour flight?
One more thing I noticed - the actors in the Mr. Cluck's video looked a lot like Michael and Walt!!
Holy Smokes - so many comments! I haven't read through them so, please join me on a trip of restating old things that have already been thoroughly discussed:
Hurley in red shirt! Arzt is still annoying though in seemingly good spirits - maybe his girl didn't leave him? Frogurt sleeps with an eye mask - tehehe! I thought John could walk! Shannon stays with Abuso, Jin is still an ass. Sawyer tells Hugo to be careful - instead of tying to con him.
I was pretty upset about the whole Sayid is going to die before we get married thing. Everyone was pretty upset about Sayid being drowned but not enough to, you know, DO anything about it.
Now Sayid is evil :( Real Evil. I think Jacob is Evil too. I am on the Man In Black's side. So, Hurley is the new leader of the Others?
My brillaint idea this morning was that the Man in Black we saw Jacob talking to in "The Incident" was just another dead form he'd taken, and I see that Brian Douglas beat me to it. Damn you! :)
Anybody else think Kate might be the one who delivers Claire's baby, after all?
Absolutely. It would continue the destiny parallels at work in the flashsideways.
I was absolutely blown away by Terry O'Quinn in this episode: he played two characters so different so well they almost didn't even look the same.
Oh, and I wonder if Flocke's comment to Richard regarding chains was more methaphoric, as in, with Jacob dead, Richard is no longer "bound" to Jacob's service.
Not that Richard necessarily considers his service akin to slavery, but Flocke probably would see it that way.
@tiasabita: In the Jin and Sun backstory, Jin had to bring the watch to L.A. as a 'business' gift to one of Paik's associates.
But he also had plans to escape his life and live with Sun in the US, hence the money (I'm assuming). Sun had a similar plameto leave Jin but backed out when Jin gave her a flower at the airport.
That was before he ran into Paik's man in the bathroom who threatened him if he went through with his plan of bolting.
Nikki: Great job. Couldn't wait to read the comments from everyone this morning.
I agree with someone who said Sawyer will target Hurley for the money.
Also, I keep remembering the conversation where MIB said something to the effect that they always end up the same, hurting each other. Jacob says it only ends once, everything else is progress. So I believe this is very significant in the two timelines convening at some point before the actual final END.
Also, great point about Hurley communicating with people in other timelines. Remembering Charlie said to him "I am here AND I'm Dead". I love it that Hurly seems cool with speaking to "dead" people now and it doesn't freak him out or make him think he's crazy!
@Benny - I agree, I think the two different manifestations of Christian are important and are hopefully addressed this season! I feel like Christian stands apart from Smokey for some reason, always have. Who knows though, I'm just along for the ride!
just a little info on what you had said about jack being drunk and smokey being jacob's nemesis.
on jimmy kimmel was carlton and damon and jimmy was asking them questions. they said:
they had said that jack had one LESS bottle of liquor so he couldn't be even drunker unless he was a lightweight now and didn't take up drinking because his dad wasn't so bad (just a thought since it's an alternate universe)
they also said that locke wasn't possessed by the man in black, so therefore maybe smokey isn't the man in black if locke is possessed by smokey.
ALSO
i think this is a good one lol,
because ben was brought to the temple as a child, was he saved or then somehow connected to the smoke monster?
why wasn't ben just killed along with jacob's bodyguards?
did jacob always ignore ben because he does have a connection with the guy in the black shirt because of smokey or did jacob always know that ben would kill him?
now that sayid has been saved in the temple, will he be connected to black shirt guy or will he be possessed or influenced by jacob now that he is dead?
just a few quick thoughts.
by the way i love your blog but never commented. i've watched lost from the very first day and i've read your blog after every episode and love your books. thank you so much for them and the connections!
@Joan: I'm holding out on the Jacob physicality being evil. Afterall, he's directing Hugo and who wants Hugo to be acting on behalf of evil, even unknowingly? I think that may be the only reason not to believe in this Jacob to be evil!
As for not preventing Sayid from being drowned, did you not see Jack getting dropped? Maybe Jin could try something but I'm pretty sure Hugo and Kate were frozen from that!
Hi Nikki! I've been a religious reader of your blog and Lost recaps since the start of season five when I found you, but I've been too shy to say hello! BUT, it IS season six so I thought I'd better get myself involved, since I'll need some fellow Losties to lean on when all of this is over.
As per usual, fabulous recap for a fabulous episode. I was so nervous going into this premiere that it could never live up to my expectations, and Darlton has proven be wrong for my fickleness. I have been HUMBLED.
Usually I'd have more to say about such an amazing episode, but I'm still trying to pick the bits of pieces of my brain up off the floor! All I can say is season six will be a doozie!
@tiasabita;Benny Jin was given two watches, one to deliver in Sydney (that's why they were in Australia) and a second to LA (which Jin ended up giving to Michael on the raft after Michael originally found it in the wreckage of 815)
Verf: rawkingl=uncooked potato chips
@Benny - D'oh! That's right Jack did try...you must understand my memory is hazy from the shock of it all! :D
@Joan: Ha! We've all had those moments... that's why we're all here, to get back on track.
Thanks Benny & Paleoblues for setting me straight!!
Okay, I haven't finished reading comments yet (no wonder) but here are some of my thoughts:
Oh.My.Goodness. I hyperventilated like, this whole episode and kept grabbing onto my mum's arm to keep from screaming.
Ben's face = so sad, after he killed Jacob :*(
Man, LePedis has some GREAT lines.
And, you gotta' love those Dharma vans. They last forever, can save hostages, and can pull off giant metal poles, when everyone knows regular vans would just have their bumper torn off.
If time ripped into different shreds, is it because the bomb went off, or because Jacob died?
About the Ash: In other mythologies one would surround themselves with something (like salt) to protect themselves from evil demon beings. Correlation?
About Richard: I was thinking about this, and actually we see his beginning spiral in the last two episodes of season 5. Man in Locke (teehee) really was getting under his skin, and you could tell that every time Richard looked at him he was trying to figure it out, as if he knew something was wrong. Because every single episode before that he was so together and didn’t care. Now he cares because he’s lost something, I guess.
@Blam: “flashdiagonals” Bwahahaha… Only on Lost.
@EamonnToGetLost: Oh man! I didn’t think about that! Ben being possessed and not really Ben… I think I would just die.
@Batcannage: “Ghengis Otherton” Yes. That should definitely be his name now. Almost as good as Bram Bram the Muffin man (which was kinda’ sad when he died, if only b/c I couldn’t call him that any longer)
About Kate not Kicking Frogurt in the face instead of letting him have his taxi? She needs to learn the scissorkill/dishwasher killing skills from Sayid.
It is all insane! My head was hurting so badly yesterday... Wait. Yup. It's still hurting.
Oh, and for Sonshine I have to post this too:
You know when it pans out and you see the temple for the first time? I had a dream of that almost exact same thing! This was my dream:
I was in a plane and it crashed, and I was thinking "man, I saw a tv show like this." And there was a Jack character who was supposed to be leading everyone, but I knew way more than he did and kept getting in the way (like making sure everyone rationed there food, idiots). Then we ended up going though the thick jungle and coming across *tah dah* temple, where there was water to the front, and trees to the side. And then me and all the crashed-plane people got hung up in these giant birdcages and I escaped (of course) with the Sawyer-like character. And then a Richard-like character and a Jacob-like character came out [and this was before Jacob!!] And they said they needed my help trnslating some ancient script stuff or they would kill everybody!!!
Yeah. That is what happens inside my rain.
I mean brain! Not rain. Whoops.
How is this alternate timeline any better than the one before? Sure they survive, and land at LAX, but their lives are just as wrecked as before. Charlie is going to jail for smuggling drugs. Kate is on the run. Sawyer is moving on to his next con. Jack still doesn't have his father, and is begining to drink more. Locke is still in a wheelchair and his life is pathetic. Rose has cancer and will die leaving Bernard berieved. Claire will still give her child up for adoption. We don't know yet about Sayid. The only one whose life is great is Hurley. You know that won't end well.
Desmond really is the variable. All the others were on the plane before, and are so once more--they are constants. The difference is Desmond.
Given we are in an alternate time, will we see Daniel once more? I am betting on it. Somehow they need Daniel to figure out things aren't right. (And if Daniel, then Libby should appear).
The island at the bottom of the ocean indicates Dharma once lived on it, but something changed, sinking the island (we see the barracks and the swing set, the Dharma shark showing Dharma lived there). What could have gone wrong? I bet setting off the bomb/or not pushing the button created the new timeline and released MiB in this timeline. Devastation and war will occur in this timeline because MiB was released and the island was sunk. So Ms. Hawking was right, God help us all.
"As soon as Jack takes the bottle from Cindy and says, “It’ll be our secret,” I knew things were going to be different. In “Pilot, Part 1,” Jack says to her that she’s breaking several FAA regulations, and then Charlie comes running by. Jack also seems a little drunker the first time around."
Though this is infinitesimal compared to your observations, in the Pilot, the stewardess actually hands Jack two bottles of alcohol, not just the one. And of course the obvious Rose is comforting Jack when the ride gets bumpy, as opposed to Jack comforting her as seen in the Pilot.
And another thing . . . Where is Michael, Walt and Vincent? And Christian's body for that matter!!
And Hurley being lucky! Did blowing things up actually change the significance of the numbers?
And though I do not contest that Not!Locke, aka The Man in Black, seemed to suggest that he was, in fact, Smokey . . . why is it that in the season 5 finale, Not!Locke seemed genuinely surprised when Ben told him that Smokey, in the form of Alex, ordered Ben to do everything Locke says?
Oh, here's another question: what's the point of the flashsideways? Afterall, the flashbacks and forwards revealed character and plot information to us, but the flashforwards can't, really, do that. I suppose they might help develop character by showing how certain characters behave in different circumstances, but I hope there's a bit more to them than that.
I love the idea and the execution, thus far. I just hope the flashsideways reality ends up impacting the "main" narrative somehow, even if just to the same extent as the flashbacks and forwards did, so as not to seem just like glorified filler, or a narrative device used simply because the show is known for using abnormal narrative devices.
That question sounds WAY more crabby and critical than I really intended. Darlton has definitely earned my trust on this one, but I'm still wondering...
For a long time some viewers thought the smoke monster killing Eko was because he was being judged, and Eko refused to ask for forgiveness. Well, in a way they were right. The smoke monster was judging who would serve his purpose. It seems many of the moral issues on the show are just covers for more duplicitous plans. Poor Eko was killed not because he was a bad man, but he was unsuitable/or a hinderance for the MiB's plan. Then who told Locke to go find Eko? I suspect the island.
And poor Locke, all his impressions of how good the island was, and he was being conned all along by MiB, Ben, and others. Locke really was a plaything of the gods.
Desmond really is the variable. All the others were on the plane before, and are so once more--they are constants. The difference is Desmond.
Fascinating; I hadn't made that connection. I love it!
And Hurley being lucky! Did blowing things up actually change the significance of the numbers?
What I took from that was that Hurley was always destined to win the lottery; however, because Jughead blew up the island, the numbers never got out: they were never broadcast, picked up by naval listeners and passed on to Hurley in the mental hospital.
So he won the lottery, but he didn't play the Numbers in doing so. Thus, he's lucky instead of cursed.
Speaking of the numbers: a 341 is confidential. 3+4+1=8. :)
Maybe in the time WHOOSH the chains around Juliet transported themselves to inside the van
Oh, and I found it very interesting with the conversation between MIL and Ben, how he leans into the bright, bright light, and then goes back into the shadows. Ergh. I hate that man. His character is so creepy. I can’t imagine how Terry O’quinn does it. Brilliant.
And I just realized that in the alternate time-line Sun and Jin's baby doesn't exist :( I don't know why, but that was just so sad to think of that I almost started crying.
Just a quick idea. Is MiB, Lucifer? The Old Testament Lucifer. We have Adam and Eve on a lush tropical isalnd with magical healing powers. Smokie moves like a snake (or similar form). Jacob is an Old Testament name form the prophets. Also MiB has a negative attitude to humans, much as Lucifer does. So MiB wants to rise up back to heaven, perhaps on the beam of purple light emitted from the island. To do so would probably exhaust the island's energy and it would collapse into the sea.
The Alt-Reality Island sunk due to the atom bomb explosion (it exploded in this version of reality), releasing the Island's special energy which had kept it afloat. The Island would not be connected to the ocean bottom if it is moving locations, so the energy must have kept it stable on top of the water. So, energy gone = Island sink. At least that is my theory.
This does mean that all the people on the Island at the time of the bomb explosion would now be dead - Widmore, Eloise, Ben, Darma folks, etc - causing vastly different lives for a few people.
Juliet - no longer hired to go to Island.
Desmond - no longer meets Penny (Widmore dead = no Penny to be born), so no boat race, and not meeting Jack while training for race.
Question: Who are the 815 characters who are alive on the island in 2007? I've got Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Jin, Hurley, Sayid (sort of), Locke (sort of), and Sun.
Weren't these all the people Jacob touched off-island??? Was Jacob tapping the 'end game' players? Would that explain why Juliet wasn't and can now be dead?
I know Miles and Lapedus are there, too, but I think we'll see them taper off as major contributors. Plus, along w/ Ben, they weren't on the original flight.
@Carlton Jenke: That's a great observation that Widmore, Eloise and the rest would all be at the bottom of the ocean. That also means Daniel would never have been born, so no maths about time travel. And with no Penny, no Desmond-Penny relationship.
Would Darlton follow the logic of this so closely? It's hard to say. Cause then where would the conflict come from? Unless we see time correction in the alternate timeline. People will have to start dying off.
And I think Jack sort of knows, but he's just fuzzy about what he knows. Will he remeber?
Awesome episode. Everyone has already said everything that need to be said/observed. The only thing I can think of is when Jack was trying to save Charlie on the plane he was looking for the pen he had in his pocket "I had a pen in my pocket, but it's gone." Kate took the pen when they bumped into each other outside of the bathroom and she tried to use it to get out of the cuffs in the bathroom before beating on the Marshal with a bathroom counter.
Is "Eggtown" isn't Jack called to the stand to try to keep Kate out of prison? And he also gets her and Sawyer out of captivity/cuffs by holding Ben hostage (forget the name of the episode).
What's done is done...
And with no Penny, no Desmond-Penny relationship.
Which explains why Jack and Desmond don't recognize each other on the plane, despite Jack and Desmond recognizing each other in the hatch: without Widmore and Penny, there's no boat race for Desmond to train for, thus, he never ended up at the stadium with Jack.
@Fred - I can see where you're going with the Lucifer thing...just like Nikki said, it might be time to dust off our copies of "Paradise Lost"! Unfortunately mine is packed in a box waiting for my move next month...argh.
I must start by saying that I've been with you all, all rewatch long and just loved all the comments. I usually read them too late to add anything (and as you can see below, I have a lot to say!) but the reading just adds to the Lost experience. Thanks.
On to Super Season Six!!
OMG!!!
WTF!!!!
Juliet! %*^%()%*^)@& That tease was just not fair!
Sayid! ()%^*%&(@%)&* Oh thank Jacob! He's ok! But I like the idea of Jacob being in him.
Desmond on the plane? $%(@%&*^@)%*
Richard! (%(*()%&*^&)$#^*(&)^ He better not be dead.
Did Christian make it to the Island without Jack?
Are we in 2 time periods here? 2004 when 815 landed in LA. And 2007 where Jack, Sawyer et al got blasted forward to the same time as Not Locke, Sun and Lapidus. The fireworks set off from the temple are seen at the statue, so they must be in the same time period.
1) Since we’re now on an alternate timeline/separate reality we don’t have ANY of the original characters on the plane. They are very similar, but different. All of the back stories would be different as well. We’re not seeing what would have happened if they hadn’t originally crashed because we join this flight before the original “turbulence”. So how do we know what year these guys are in? Yes, the original flight was in 2004, but this is not it. That also suggests that all of the original passengers don’t have to be on this flight.
2) When Sawyer first gets to Juliet she says “It didn’t work”. She’s says something about let’s have coffee and Sawyer reminds her she is talking to him. She says she has something to tell him, then “dies”. Miles say she wanted to say “It worked”. What changed her mind. I’m with Sawyer. What worked??
3) After Jack saves Charlie, Charlie says to Jack “You should have let that happen,man. I was supposed to die”. Just like Desmond tried to save Charlie when he was supposed to die. When Jack returns to his seat, Desmond is gone????
4) I know Hurley wasn’t carrying anything illegal in the guitar case, but I would have liked to have been there when he explained what it was to airport security.
5) Hurley was wearing that red shirt for quite awhile during S5 under his Dharma coveralls.
6) Bernard says ”Now I know how laundry feels in the dryer”. Rose didn’t like the dryer in the hatch. She hung clothes outside.
Verf: munti=the day before tuti
I made a mistake. The Temple scene is reminiscent of the scene in What Kate Did...not Collision and infact..I just saw it compared, somewhere, and its almost shot the same way and the dialogue is eerily similar. Sawyer wakes up with a "where are we"...and there is this light that comes into the room just as there was one in the Temple Scene.
I can bet my bottom dollar that Kate wil help birth Aaron because I am one of those who firmly believes that Whatever happened, happened albeit the journey might be diffferent.
So, if the coffin got lost, it got lost. If Kate helped with Aaron, she always helped with Aaron. If they all met, they were always meant to meet...and so it shall continue. We will see that what is meant to be is meant to be no matter the reality/timeline.
Hey all: I just posted the DocArzt column over there:
http://www.docarzt.com/lost/lost-news/what-nikki-noticed-6-0102-la-x-parts-1-2/
@Rad - never picked up on Jack saying he had lost the pen out of his pocket. i wondered briefly where kate got the pen - duh! good catch!!
@paleoblues - another good catch - the bernard/rose/dryer comments! ha! and i agree with other posters that juliet is 'seeing' another reality when she mentions the coffee and 'it worked'. she is experiencing the moment she meets sawyer in another dimension just as charlotte did talking to daniel as she was dying. thus, it worked!!
@fred - your idea of mib/lucifer ascending on a flash of light thus sinking the island - ha!! or maybe it's jabob/lucifer? (jacob's gonna turn out to be bad, I just know it!!)
Good lord! Twelve hours after first posting and we're up to 160 comments already! You people are, as Rousseau would say, "incroyable"!
I've read through over a hundred of the comments already, but not all, so please forgive if I am redundant on one or two of these - but here are Some Things That Jumped Out At Me:
- Sawyer kicking Jack into the crater at the beginning of this season is reminiscent of Flocke kicking Jacob into the fire to end the last.
- Aboard the plane, Rose is reading "Weekly Woodsman" magazine. What, they were sold out of "Lumberjack Monthly"?
- Frogurt, the ultimate red-shirt, even has a red sleep mask. He accessorizes well for a meat puppet.
- Kate appearing up in the tree is reminiscent of how the 815 pilot appeared there after Smokey got through with him.
- On the plane, Arzt chats with Hurley while carrying what appears to be a Field Guide to Insects. Hah! Any poisonous spiders in there?
- Sayid's last words (sorta), "Wherever I'm going, it can't be very pleasant." Oh, you don't know the half of it, brotha.
- While Hurley was fumbling with the gun, trying to get it cocked, the way he was waving it around I thought it was going to go off and put another bullet in Sayid.
- Jacob: "I was killed by an old friend who grew tired of my company". Um, yeah, I'd say so.
- Gotta love Sayid coming to see what the fuss is about by the restrooms on the plane: "May I be of assistance?" *WHAM/KICK* Why, YES you can!
- Interesting that Jack says "I had a pen in my pocket but it's gone". Hmmmmm...
- I may just not remember this from "The Greater Good" when Sayid assisted the CIA to infiltrate the terrorist cell, but why is he traveling on an Iranian passport?
- I remember when we first saw the outside of the Temple walls in "The Little Prince" that it reminded me of Angkor Wat in Cambodia. That motif is continued inside, with glimpses of many-handed Buddhist statues on the Temple exterior.
- The Japanese leader at the Temple, Dogan, wears what appears to be a small scroll hanging around his neck. When he opens Hurley's guitar case and sees the ankh, he touches it reflexively, as if to bless himself.
- I just love the way the scene with Flocke talking to Ben in Jacob's ruined chamber under the statue foot has him leaning first forward and then back, his face emerging into the light and alternately retreating into darkness. Awesome.
- Jack tells his mother on his cellphone, "I don't know what you should tell them. We can't have the service without him!". Um, actually Jack, yes you can. In fact, you did.
- Is there any further significance to Flocke telling all the Others/Shadow Seekers after he emerges from Jacob's chamber (and attacks Richard), "I am very disappointed in ALL of you!".
What a beginning to the End!
From somewhere else on the web:
Here's a great Q&A from Entertainment Weekly's Jeff Jensen with Damon and Carlton for those of you looking to decode last nights premiere! Bottom line, you're not as confused as you might feel.
http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/
@Nikki "It made me sad that these little kids who just wanted to see their parents have not only been denied a happy childhood with their family, they’re being treated like servants by the Others."
Irrational of me, but I wanted to pop Cindy upside the head. She was dismissive of Jack & Co. and treating Z&E as if they were indentured. Maybe we'll come to learn that she was doing it to protect all their lives by integrating so that they would be safe - but I'm not buying it for now.
I'm more confused than ever about Smokie/MIB(L). We know that Christian was running around the island from the get go, and that it wasn't until later that Locke disturbed the ash circle around the cabin. Ilana said that "he" - probably meaning Jacob - hadn't lived in the cabin for a long time and that someone else had been living there. MIB, trapped? So who or what was Christian? And why could Ben summon Smokie? And why was the cabin found in a different location by Hurley? Was it back where it started when Ilana showed up?
My head hurts.
@salubriously - "why is it that in the season 5 finale, Not!Locke seemed genuinely surprised when Ben told him that Smokey, in the form of Alex, ordered Ben to do everything Locke says?"
Yes, that. Would it be a real stretch to think that both Jacob and MIB can manifest in this way? On the one hand, Jacob might want Ben to follow the newly annointed leader. And why, if MIB was manifesting as Smokey, would he tell Ben to follow Locke? That only makes sense in hindsight, because Locke hadn't yet left the island and wasn't yet dead. It would make more sense if MIB tried to turn Ben away from following Locke blindly. Unless, I suppose, that MIB always planned to use Locke and somehow knew he'd be back as a corpse? Then we have Christian telling Locke to turn the wheel himself and that listening to Ben is never a good thing.
My head still hurts, but I just can't imagine that there will turn out to be two Smokies.
Nothing edifying to add, but to say that, now that Bram and his team have been "smoked", I'm fearful that Frank will be the one to get hit with Juliet's bullet during the outrigger chase. I re-watched it recently and it was clearly a man who got shot. Assuming we ever see the chase, of course.
Oh, and to add that Terry O'Quinn and Michael Emerson remain masterful and that everyone else really stepped up.
Thanks to Nikki and everyone for the great discussion. I bow to you. My apologies if I'm repeating things that have already been discussed.
@Teebore-The point of the flashsideways is to show that whatever happened, happened. Thats my opinion and I think we've already seen hints of that, the most obvious being, they were all meant to meet in some way, and I think as we go on, it will become more obvious.
@Rad, I like what you said about the pen there. Thats the kind of "symbolism" I am busy making while others are wondering why the Island was at the bottom of the sea and other island myths. I am into the character analysis/myth. The Island story is great to watch but I dont find it interesting to debate so I love that there are others that do so I can read them :) Thats why I come to blogs like these for sci-fi analysis.
Back to the pen, I found it almost symbolic of the triangle itself, that Kate stole Jacks pen to try and free herself from the cuffs but guess what? It did not work. Then Sawyer helps her escape :) In the end, she may get the cuffs off herself or maybe Claire will. Either way I thought it fit with how the triangle has been shown. Kate has always believed in Jack as the man that can "save" her so to speak, but we have seen that, this was not the case. Instead her feelings for Sawyer "freed" her and with him she was more herself and experienced true "freedom". She didn't have to be "good". She could just be Kate. So Sawyer helping her escape capture is fitting. Kate is probably the only one who can truly free herself so in the end like I said,she might get the cuffs off herself or if Claire helps then the whole Aaron transference thing sets in. It all probably means nothing but not only myth geeks speculate all sorts. Character geeks speculate on all sorts too. Such is LOST!
I also found it interesting that Sun did not want to help Jin by admitting she could speak English. Old Sun though under Jins thumb, still thought to defend him no matter what.
I'm not much of a contributor yet and I like a lot oftheories here but I just wanted to add that maybe in the flashsideways, sun really doesn't know English. She might not have been lying.
The great thing about the flashsideways are the little details that they leave in for the fans who were really paying attention. Certain things are obviously different but little things like rose not wearing bernards ring are subtle things that really detail oriented peoples like all you folks notice. Can't wait fir next week! (I totally didn't mean to write this much!)
I think it's pretty clear that when Flocke said he wanted to go home, "home" meant the Temple. That would explain the "Temple Others" panic when told that Jacob was dead. They knew that MIB/Smokie/Flocke would be coming to the Temple. Speaking of coming, what was up with Jacob's "last words" before being kicked into the fire in the finale of Season 5. He said "They're coming".
Of all the @&#* times to be sick! I did stay up to watch the season premiere, but didn't stay up to see Nikki's post, and slept in this morning so that by the time I got here, there were 139 comments, and up to 165 by the time I finished reading them all!
Lots of things I wanted to say that have already been said. But there are a few things...
Sawyer is in his 30s right? Well it's time for him to man up and start accepting responsibility for his actions instead of always blaming someone else. He chose to accompany Kate with little Ben, he chose to sock Phil in the jaw, and he chose to follow Juliet's advice in letting Jack detonate the bomb. Him blaming Jack for Juliet's death and wanting to kill Jack reminds me of season 1 when Shannon blamed John for Boone's death and wanted to kill him, only to have Sayid stop her.
I have a LOT of nitpicks with this new timeline. The sinking of the island and the killing of everyone on it should not have affected most of these lives, but there are so many little changes in their lives up to the 815 flight. I'll just give one example: the island is destroyed, and all of a sudden Shannon not only stays with the boyfriend, but he doesn't kick her out either. The destruction of the island should really only affect the lives of 2 people: Des -- now there's no Penny or at least no Widmore to send Penny to the monastery for wine -- and Hurley -- who won the lottery with some random numbers and has gone to Australia for some reason or other.
I know the scene with Smokey destroying Bram et al was really tense and intense, but when Bram was drawing the circle around himself, it reminded us of the Spongebob episode where Spongebob and Patrick draw a circle in the sand to protect themselves from the sea-bear.
How far off the island do you think the sub got before the bomb went off? Do you think Charlotte lived? Baby Miles and his mom? Where was Horace? Widmore? Richard and Eloise? Did they manage to transport away a la Tunisia before the bomb went? If so, that could change things in a whole different way...
The destruction of the island should really only affect the lives of 2 people
I'm beginning to suspect that one of the points of the flashsideways (and the reason for all the changes in that reality that don't seem connected directly to the island) will be that the island was influencing these characters' lives long before they boarded flight 815 in ways we haven't learned yet, such that by removing the island and that influence, this reality is different in ways beyond "the plane didn't crash".
A crude example: We'll eventually find out that somehow, the island/Jacob/whomever triggered a chain of events that led to Shannon getting on the plane with Boone instead of staying in Australia; remove the island, and she doesn't board the plane.
To ConStar's point, there are a lot of subtle differences that are more of a result of a different history. These are not mistakes and one wonders what it all means.
- From ComiCon, Kate murdered her father's ASSISTANT;
- Hurley's lucky and seems happier;
- Boone says he TRIED to get his sister back;
- Locke says he went on a walkabout (is he lying? maybe not);
- Bernard's ring;
- Charlie's different timing/purpose to go to the bathroom;
- Lack of glimpses of other characters (Michael & Walt and Libby, AL & Eko);
- The single bottle of vodka;
- The different conversation with Rose;
...and I'm sure there are many more.
The point I am trying to make is this: the history of these characters is somewhat different than the flashbacks we've seen over the past years. The general path is similar. Think of sum over histories.
Lives cross paths in a way that alters everyone's history, maybe only slightly, maybe immensely. The environment and character of these individual will inevitably weave a given life, changing something in the greater environment, the weaving pattern should change. The HOW you get there differs.
By blowing up the island, what everyone forgot is that, not only is Desmond not pushing the button, but they've killed countless individuals, including Charles, Ellie and Ben. And prevented any offsprings from these people (Daniel, Penny). Miles's history is probably changed as well.
Is it possible that Widmore's company had influenced the life of Sun & Jin (i.e partnership with Paik) and therefore she actually DOESN'T learn English?
Last season I had written a short paper discussing time travel and changing the past without creating paradoxes. While this doesn't exaclty reflect here, the idea of different histories is similar: http://tinyurl.com/eventprob.
Daniel's analogy of a time as a river is quite apt: throw pebbles and you won't alter the flow; dump in a boulder and you'll divide the stream in two until it reaches itself again. The parrallel reality we are seeing is the flow having been diverted since 1977, creating that different path, but every character still leads their similar lives under similar circumstances with details having been altered, evidence in LA X, as mentioned above.
Some of these have been hinted in earlier comments, but I wanted to dedicate a full blown section on this, hopefully this will spring up more thinking and theorising.
Maybe Desmond just went back to his own seat for the landing. :)
I've been thinking about yin and yang and the Island. We've talked about it at length before - John and Jack, faith and science, black and white (backgammon), Jacob and Who-or-what-the-frell-is-that?
Now we have two realities, one familiar and one different, but both in ways the same. I agree that this isn't a simple time paradox (if there be such a thing) but I wonder if the Island word is more magic and the LAX world more pragmatistic, or scientific. Too soon to tell, but it can't be a coincidence that once again we're looking at two sides of the coin.
Benny, the boulder in the river analogy is quite apt, especially as it suggest that these two realities might, in the end, come together.
If Jughead dropped the boulder in the river of time, creating two rivers, I wonder might remove that boulder, or if the two realities will simply run their course and eventually converge of their own accord (once the water works its way around the boulder).
@Flexible, pure genius. I didn't even think of the failure of the pen (Jack) and then the rescue by her true "hero" (Sawyer). And you're right, even if she did free herself in the end, we do see her two main pursuers give valiant efforts.
I did find the burial of the Island underwater in the sense that "nothing on this Island stays buried", as Jack & Co are so fond of saying. No matter how hard they try to bury their time and experiences on the Island, it/they will always be there...20,000 leagues under the sea, but it's still there. Every character now has a new back story which must be uncovered, which will slowly but surely bring the Island out of the water and back into the light (Jacob).
I may have tried to go too deep with my analysis (pun intended), you got me a little too full of myself Flexible :)
Teebore, maybe so but that means Shannon was never that important since she didn't make it onto the "new" 815 lol.
redeem147: "Maybe Desmond just went back to his own seat for the landing. :)" That was my thought too!
I haven't read through all the comments yet, but I was wondering if anyone noticed that the customs officer at LAX called Sun, Mrs Paik. I purposely watched it twice to check and she did.
Great catch! Now that you mention it I do remember it.
that means Shannon was never that important since she didn't make it onto the "new" 815
I'd buy that. Shannon was barely that important when on the "old" 815 lol
OK--my remaining thoughts:
(I'm trying not to repeat things already said but apologize if I do!)
1. Penny could have been born before 1977 correct? So, she may still exist even if Widmore is dead. Though, of course, could be very different.
2. Mrs. Paik! At first, I thought this was a mistake by the security woman because the business card said Paik on it but with the subtle changes in the alternative timeline could it be that Jin has succeeded Sun's father somehow. Would he take on his name? And if that is the case, the money in the suitcase could have a much different meaning. Jin may have really gone to the dark-side.
3. Jacob touched some of these people before Flight 815 (Sawyer & Kate as children for example). This would have been pre-1977 blow-up/H-bomb (assuming Jacob died?). So, he could have affected their early lives & development. The lack of his presence may have impacted them differently, as well, sending them on slightly or completely different paths. We are assuming subtle changes based on our previous knowledge of the characters. We know nothing about these people now. What if Sawyer truly was trying to warn Hurley because in this timeline he is not "Sawyer" and is not a con-man due to never getting a pen from Jacob as a child for the pivotal letter? And Jin is really a bad guy now because Jacob never blessed their marriage? etc. etc.
Last night's episode renewed my conviction that there is a link to judeo-christian storylines here...no mistake about the names Jacob and Esau, or the last supper promo photo they put out.
In the bible, Jacob spent his final years in exile in Egypt. When he wrestled the angel, the angel was supposedly the divine rep for his nemesis (and brother) Esau.
Jacob's ladder led to the heavens, or did it lead to this island?
Aaron is possibly some sort of new messiah.
This might also explain how people got popped out into the desert in the Middle East in previous time travelling expeditions.
Is it only a coincidence that one of Jacob's foot soldiers is a woman from that part of the world?
Something to ponder.
One more question for those more astute than I (those of you who lie in the shadow of the statue), why would MIB know what John Locke's final thoughts were?
He only portrays the form of Locke (since his body is still very much dead and on the beach), how would he know that John thought "I don't understand" as he's being choked by Ben?
@Rad: to that question, I would say that he is able to absorb the body and mind of a deceased who's been broughgt to the island. In the same vein as one of the christians we've seen (cabin-Christian).
He absorbs the memories and throughts, experiences of those brought there and therefore create a significant representation of them.
He only portrays the form of Locke (since his body is still very much dead and on the beach), how would he know that John thought "I don't understand" as he's being choked by Ben?
I remain curious about this as well. There remains much to be learned about the mechanics of Flocke's impersonations.
If I had to guess, I'd say it probably has something to do with Smokey's ability to "read" people and know their thoughts/feelings. Smokey showed Eko images of his past; perhaps the same way he gleaned that info (some kind of telepathy) was used to learn Locke's final thoughts?
Or what Benny said. :)
...further to my comments, I would say that's what he tried by impersonating Yemi to Eko, to convince Eko of doing his deed.
Failing at that, he used the impersonation of Christian to convince Locke of following him, pretending to be Jacob, and coerced Locke into having to die. With the relationship Ben and Locke had, it's no question that upon seeing Locke 'resurrected', Ben would follow him. And after Locke2.0 convinced Ben to kill Jacob, the plan had worked!
That's just some fast scribbling right now... may have to develop a less confusing explanation.
I was utterly chilled when Flocke was talking about Locke so contemptuously, and the look on his face when he said he wanted to go home? Aye carumba!
And did we have to watch Juliet die again? Beautiful sad scene, though.
New here...but I haven't noticed anyone mention that Kate pick pocketed Jack's pen. That's where she got the pen to pick her cuffs and why Jack didn't have one when he tried to save Charlie...
New here...but I haven't noticed anyone mention that Kate pick pocketed Jack's pen. That's where she got the pen to pick her cuffs and why Jack didn't have one when he tried to save Charlie...
Since the spring revived ?Sayid and presumably young Ben, who/what else on that island has taken the plunge? Are there dead/near dead people/entities all over that island that have been in that water? Have the others been putting all of their “dead” and the islands “dead” in there? How about Christian? Did Jacob make Richard “that way” in the spring? Did somebody sneak Locke in there? Why couldn’t Eloise put Daniel in there? As someone once said “The dead on this island don’t stay buried for long.” Why was the water “not clear”? Is it usually? Does putting someone in unclear water cause unpredictable results? Why are some of the others always outside the temple and some inside?
What other entities will show up on the island? After all, if MIB and Old Smokey are in cahoots, it only seems fair that Jacob should have a white smoke “monster”. Maybe that’s what Locke saw originally.
@Nikki: Thanks for the Lennon (eggman)/walrus reference.
@Ali Bags: Hurley didn’t bring a guitar. There ain’t gonna be no hootenanny!
...further to my comments, I would say that's what he tried by impersonating Yemi to Eko, to convince Eko of doing his deed.
Good stuff Benny. I was going to ask why Locke, but this would show that he tried with others and failed. I'm guessing talking to Jack through Christian would be along the same lines, but Jack was too stubborn to listen so he moved on to "weaker" characters.
One final question, this may be completely off-topic but if the ash keeps him out, how was he able to impersonate Christian in the Cabin when it is surrounded by ash at all times? Unless he was trapped in the cabin by the ashes the whole time, but then how would he get around as Smokey...never mind
I knew there was one more thing I thought of (or two, or three...)
I thought the Other fellow cut his hand and put it into the spring as a blood sacrifice and part of the ritual, not because he was testing the waters - at least that's what I thought watching it.
For the past 2 seasons or so, i have been nothing but a frequent visitor on this amazing blog, reading people's thoughts on Lost. This year i decided i would join in with what i think.
178 comments later i think every question that has been on my mind have been asked, but here is what i think....
During the season 5 finale jack tries to destroy the hydrogen bomb in the hopes of preventing the electromagnetic energy from being unleashed and therefore that would mean desmond has no need to push a button in the hatch and oceanic flight 815 will never crash. Jack had in mind that doing that would transport them all back in 2004.
But ive always questioned that... if they had travelled to the past to change thier future then thier futures would change in another timeline... and they would continue thier lives in 1977 UNLESS someone moved the wheel would would cause them to time jump into the "changed" 2004.
But what we see is that they somehow time travel back to 2007 by an unknown entity! just like the time split that happened when they landed via ajira airways.... nobody moved the wheel, SOMEONE time jumped them, it could wither be the island itself or jacob/MIB.
So now in the new timeline, i thought everything would be the same as before, but its not!
Rose is a carefree happy person, Sun does not know english, boone is without shannon, hurley is LUCKY, charlie wanted to commit suicide.... by blowing up the hydrogen bomb, the lives of the ppl on the island should have changed but not them... as they should be leading thier normal lives we saw in season 1. Plus i dont think the bomb was enough to sink the island!!!!! AGAIN i'm suggesting the losties might do something else this season that would eventually cause this NEW very different timeline!!!
the link between jack and being a spinal surgeon and locke being his patient never occured to me.... on that note remember on the plane sawyer tells hurley: u shouldnt tell people u won the lottery.... maybe hurley is going to be sawyer's next CON!
I really apologize if im not making any sense! english is not my first language.
With the whole sayid being resurrected from death, i started thinking again about the loophole MIB was talking about. MIB wanted a vacant body on the island which has not been buried before and as we know there were many dead bodies not buried such as yemi, christian, horace, and the other dharma ppl who ben has killed.
Yet we have seen smokey appear as alex who is buried, and why choose locke!? when he had many other bodies to choose from.... or it maybe that my thoery is wrong wrong wrong.
Did anyone notice that when sayid wakes up he says: what happened? in a british sort of accent?! hmmm
One final question, this may be completely off-topic but if the ash keeps him out, how was he able to impersonate Christian in the Cabin when it is surrounded by ash at all times?
When Locke and his half of the Losties found the ash line in season four (the cabin was gone at the time), the line had been disturbed (presumably from when Hurley freaked out after seeing it and the eye the night before).
So Smokey would have been able to get in and impersonate Christian and tell Locke to move the island later in season four.
@Orber: Plus i dont think the bomb was enough to sink the island
Well, my sis and I were actually talking about this, and if you think about all of the ridiculous amounts of tunnels in the island, under the island, it's not all that surprising. If you found the right spot you could probably shoot a shotgun and sink the entire island. There's the tunnels under the temple, there's all of the dharma hatches way underground.
Sweet muffins! There is so much to think about and you all are making me think ever more. Oh, and I just wanted to say 'hellooo' and 'welcome' to the newbies. The people on here are made of awesomesauce and you will fit right in.
I'm getting a little confused (partly because of faulty memory) about the whole ash/cabin situation. Treebore your last comment made sense but now I'm wondering who John saw/heard when Ben took him to the cabin in season 3? Was the ash still intact then?
@paleoblues: There ain’t gonna be no hootenanny!
haha! I can't remember exactly which post the whole conversation took place on, but I am actually watching "A Mighty Wind" right now, because of everybody's comments about it. It's cracking me up.
Was the ash still intact then?
As far as we know (or at least, I can remember) it was, which suggests that actually was Jacob in there, then.
@Teebore
I think there is a plot hole regarding Jacob/MiB and the cabin. It couldn't have been Jacob in there, because he was living under the statue. It couldn't have been MiB, because he couldn't have gotten out of the cabin to kill some of the survivors as Smokey. And he killed some of them during the first three seasons. And the first time the ash ring was "broken" was because of Locke in "The Man Behind The Curtain" - so how did he get out of the cabin?
So: either a big plot hole, or we have a third party here...
I think there is a plot hole regarding Jacob/MiB and the cabin. It couldn't have been Jacob in there, because he was living under the statue.
Do we know he was living in the statue? What if lived in the statue, then moved to the cabin for some reason (summer home...), then had to retreat to the safety of the statue once the ash line was broken?
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