“I don’t want you to spend your life waiting for a miracle, Helen, because there’s no such thing.”I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVED this episode. There isn’t enough space on this blog to express my love for this episode (if I were doing a video podcast, I’d be squeaking right now!). In this reality, Locke is happily with Helen, and while he has short bursts of anger, they’re nothing out of the ordinary (who among us would keep their cool if they’d just been fired and then some idiot had parked his Hummer right next to the only access we had to our vehicle?). But he doesn’t believe in miracles or destiny. He’s no longer a man of faith. He accepts what has happened to him and helps those around accept it, too. While his new lifestyle is one that gives him more contentment, and will definitely make him a happier person where better things will no doubt happen to him, I felt a little empty at this idea of a faithless Locke. He’s accepted what has happened to him, but... if Jack could perform a miracle, and make Locke walk, would it make him a happier man? When he looked at Helen and said there’s no such thing as miracles, I actually moaned out loud, “Oh, say it ain’t so, Locke!”
“You know the rules...”
Rules! They were first mentioned by Ben when Alex was killed and he muttered that Widmore had changed the rules. There’s always been a link between the Widmore/Ben war and the Jacob/MiB one, and in “The Shape of Things to Come,” Ben tells Widmore that he knows Ben can’t kill Widmore, and in “The Incident,” the MiB can’t kill Jacob. Here the mini-Jacob tells Not-Locke that he knows he can’t kill him. Does this mean that Jacob is only merely dead, and is NOT most sincerely dead?
Highlights:
• HELEN!!! When I was doing interviews for the lead-up to the premiere, an interviewer asked me what I would love to happen most if there was a do-over. I said, “I wish Helen would be alive and she and Locke would be together and happy.” Wish = granted!!!
• Smokey cam! That trip through the jungle was wicked. Imagine how quickly you could get from place to place if you could just turn yourself into a pillar of smoke and move around like that.
• “People seldom get a second chance.” I loved that line. It was a toss-up between that and the miracle one about which I'd put at the top of this blog post.
• “Well, I guess I’d better put some pants on.” Haha!
• “Randy Nations? Yeah... that guy is a huge douche.” LOLZ!!!!! I had just finished saying to my husband that “A Dick in Every Reality: The Randy Nations Story” could be his memoir title.
• I don’t know why, but I just got the weirdest kick out of crazed panicky Richard being the unhinged loser trying to lure Sawyer, who just stands there and tells him to get lost before Richard scurries back into the jungle.
• Not-Locke’s amazing soliloquy: “I know what it’s like to feel joy, to feel pain, anger, fear, to experience betrayal. I know what it’s like to lose someone you love. If you want to shoot me, shoot me, but you are so close, James. It would be such a shame to turn back now.”
• Ben gives the best eulogy ever: “John Locke was a... a believer. He was a man of faith. He was... a much better man than I will ever be. And I’m very sorry I murdered him.”
• Frank’s response: “This is the weirdest damn funeral I’ve ever been to.” HA!!
• Not-Locke throwing the rock and explaining it as an “inside joke.” Hahaha!!
• Ben as that guy in the teacher’s lounge. High-larious.
Answers:
• The numbers correspond to 6 of the 7 people that Jacob touched. We don’t know why he chose those numbers (but you kinda hope there’s a little more to the numbers than THAT).
• Jacob was touching people to push their lives in a direction that would get them to the island, where they could be a candidate.
• By “candidate” they mean a new leader who will protect the island.
Did You Notice?:
• Locke’s neighbourhood looked like the same one Nadia was in when he was doing her home inspection.
• The moment the sprinklers came on and Locke started smiling, I knew his alternate life was WAY different than the one we know.
• When Locke looks at the furniture swatches, he at first chooses the one that’s hunter green.
• There were a lot of parallels between this episode and “Walkabout,” the original Locke episode from season 1. We see him at the office with Randy being a huge dick, we see him with a “Helen” (though the one in “Walkabout” wasn’t exactly the same thing), we see a version of Locke yelling that you can’t tell him what he can’t do...
• Someone pointed this out in the comments: have you noticed, by the way, that the flashbacks are following the same sequence as S1? First ep a two-parter that covered off many of the survivors, ep 3 a Kate-centric one, ep 4 a Locke-centric one... does this mean next week is Jack-centric and the following week will focus on Sun? Presumably ep 7 won’t be about Chah-lie...
• When Locke is sitting in his cubicle, you can see a photograph of him and Cooper hunting on the day that Cooper told him about needing a new kidney.
• I love that one of the first times we know Ben is actually telling the truth, it sounds completely preposterous.
• Sawyer’s listening to Iggy Pop and The Stooges’ “Search and Destroy,” from the Bowie-produced version of the Raw Power record. Oddly, the song plays when Smokey peeks in the window, and then it’s still playing when he shows up later. Maybe James was stumbling out to keep repeating the song. The lyrics are eerily appropriate (bolds are mine):
I'm a street walking cheetah
with a heart full of napalm
I'm a runaway son of the nuclear A-bomb
I am a world's forgotten boy
The one who searches and destroys
Honey gotta help me please
Somebody gotta save my soul
Baby detonates for me
Look out honey, 'cause I'm using technology !
Ain't got time to make no apology
Soul radiation in the dead of night
Love in the middle of a fire fight
Honey gotta strike me blind
Somebody gotta save my soul
Baby penetrates my mind
And I'm the world's forgotten boy
The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy
And honey I'm the world's forgotten boy
The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy
Forgotten boy, forgotten boy
Forgotten boy said
hey forgotten boy
• How much do I love that everyone else was duped by Not-Locke, but Sawyer immediately sees through the veil. “Locke was scared, even when he was pretending he wasn’t. But you... you ain’t scared.”
• I know the actors are paid well on this show, but I don't think you could pay me enough to have that sandcrab or tarantula or whatever the HELL that thing was that scuttled over dead Locke's head. :::SHUDDER::: Seriously, I screamed louder at that sight than I did when Sawyer's ladder broke.
• Locke’s platform stops before hitting Hurley’s Hummer because Hurley’s the luckiest guy in the world. Perhaps the cosmos prevented it from actually hitting it.
• Love the new dapper Hurley (though I’m still partial to the old one!)
• The loopy career counsellor who asks Locke what animal he would describe himself as was the fake fortune-teller that Papa Reyes hired to try to trick Hurley in “Tricia Tanaka Is Dead.”
• Rose is the same no-nonsense person in this reality as she is in the other one.
• The last time Sawyer recounted the final scene in Of Mice and Men, Ben was walking him up the hill to show him the other island. Sawyer put himself in Lenny’s place and was calling Ben “George.” But in this instance, he sees himself as George, and Not-Locke is the Lenny he’s out in the jungle to execute.
• Jack’s cell number is the same in both realities! (And someone should have proofread that business card: the last number is missing the dash in the number. Sloppy!)
• Helen is wearing a shirt that says “Peace & Karma, Joy and Tranquility.”
• Inside the cave is a scale with one white rock, one black one. Bigger versions of the small rocks inside Adam and Eve’s pouch. Also, the Egyptian god Anubis would weigh the hearts of the dead on a scale as they were preparing for the afterlife.
• How perfect is it that Ben is the REALLY annoying, petty, anal guy in the teacher’s lounge? (And by the way, he looks EXACTLY like the European History prof I had in university, except the guy had snow-white hair. But otherwise, down to the glasses and annoyingness, he’s THAT GUY.)
The Numbers:
Locke gets up at 6:15. St. Sebastian Hospital is located at 8444 Wilshire Blvd. Locke asks the class to open their books to Chapter 4. Many of the people Jacob touched all correspond to a number: 15: Ford; 16: Jarrah; 8: Reyes; 42: Kwon; 23: Shephard; 4:Locke.
So Many Questions...
• I’m thinking Locke didn’t end up in the wheelchair because his father threw him out a window this time. Perhaps Cooper was still behind it somehow, but why else would Helen say they should invite his dad and her parents to a shotgun wedding? (Unless of course she meant that the shotgun was aimed at Cooper.)
• Have we ever seen Richard this unhinged? His eyes are wild as Not-Locke is talking.
• Who is the little boy? Is it a little Jacob? Does this mean that the dead people on the island aren’t actually the Man in Black’s doing? Could Yemi and Christian be powered by something else?
• What will Ilana do with Jacob’s ashes?
• Why can Sawyer see the kid, but Richard couldn’t? Does that make him THE candidate?
• If Not-Locke uses the same catchphrase as Locke, is it possible there’s any of Locke’s personality in that body?
• Why didn’t Rose talk to Hurley at all when she was on the plane with him?
• If Rose still has cancer in this reality, was she at Isaac’s place in Australia? Was Bernard so happy on the plane because he believed she’d been healed? Or has she convinced him to just allow her to enjoy the time she has left and they were just having a fun vacation?
• Who WAS Not-Locke when he was a real man? He was a man pre-1930s. We’ve seen the Man in Black in the 19th century, but it’s not clear if THAT was actually him as a man. Perhaps he was just wearing a man-suit back then, too.
• Why is Not-Locke stuck this way, as Ilana says?
• Was anyone else scared there’d be a dug-up empty grave on the beach with some diamonds scattered in it?!
• By “Kwon,” was Jacob referring to both of them? (Are they the island’s Adam and Eve?)
• Why wasn’t Kate one of the numbers?
• Why were the very people that Jacob thought were candidates the same ones who actually left the island? (With the exception of Sawyer?) Is the fact that Sawyer is the only one who stayed behind significant?
• When Eloise sent them all back to the island, was she in cahoots with Jacob somehow?
• When Sawyer said “yes,” is there a possibility that Not-Locke will try to kill him to use his body, or was Ilana right and he’s stuck in Locke’s?
Reminder: I now do a quick recap of the week’s episode on a radio show every Wednesday morning at 9. Tomorrow listen in to Marshall and Forbes on The Ocean 98.5 in Victoria, BC at 6 a.m. local time, 9 a.m. EST. Go here and click on the Listen Now button if you’re out of the listening area.
And tomorrow at noon I will once again be participating in the Globe and Mail Lost chat from noon to 1pm EST. Go here to ask questions and comment. See you there!
And finally: Stay tuned to this space, because later this week, I will be unveiling something that is very exciting to me: the Finding Lost: Season 6 cover!! I can't wait to show all of you!
Next week:
279 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 279 of 279I tried to read as many as possible so sorry if said already. I don't see why 42 can't refer to sun and Jin like they are two parts of 1 whole. 2+2=4 or you could read it as for 2. It may be a bit tenuous but we don't know for sure that each number only refers to 1 person. It could relate to whole families.
Shepherd could relate to jack and Christian. Either way whoever wrote out all the numbers has a lot of time on their hands. The devils hands are idle playthings.
Fred: Hypothetically, Jughead did cause the side-world, but the effect is not just from that moment, like a fork in the road, but causally retroactive--the effect like a wave drifts backward in time. There is in physics the idea of retroactive causation, but only at the quantum level.
This is excellent. Maybe this effect could explain why Juliet exhibited such weird, almost reality-shifted changes of mind in the hour or so leading up to the Incident?
the whole alternative timeline concept can make your head hurt if you think about it too much. if the losties never came to the island how could they go back in time to change things etc.etc.
the way i see it, everything in the alternative timeline was the same up until the detonation of the bomb and the subsequent sinking of the Island. Whether the two are connected has yet to be determined. The effects of both these events was the following:
1)DHARMA left the Island - meaning that The Others were never able to recruit from their ranks (Ben, Ethan). Which means...
2) No Purge - The Others never gain access to DHARMA resources and their influence on events off Island is negated.
3) Any 'supernatural' influence the Island may have had ceases
4) Without the influence of The Others, Jacob or The Island , the Losties of alternative timeline are free to follow a rather different (yet not neccessarily better) existance.
I believe that events like the death of Sawyer's parents, which happened prior to The Incident, still happened. Everything after that is open to change.
On another, topic, I think it is becoming clear that no one , not even The Others, was in the loop when it comes to Jacob's plans and that The Others not knowing who was and wasnt on the candidates list is part of the process of weeding out unsuccessful names - it is survival of the fittest (physically, emotionally, spiritually?)
@Blam "Sacrificial lamb" ohhhh.... "a sacrifice the island demanded..." eek...karma is a wheel and everything is going back to the beginning, which is actually the end...hand me that tissue, please...my nose is starting to bleed again.
I wonder if the number assigned to individuals stand for how 'connected' and or 'in touch' with the Island powers they are - the lower the number, the better likelihood of candidacy. I mean it's easy to say Locke (4) been most in touch, and I think it's arguable that Hurley (8) is next. The rest get a bit fuzzy though.
Sawyer (15) DID hear whispers, get visited by a magic boar, and see Kid Jacob and Kate's horse... maybe he's one of the few that can see other people's personal Island visions?
Sayid (16) heard whispers and... um... saw a cat?
Jack (23) did see Zombie dad, but that might have just been the MIB all along, so maybe he hasn't had so many 'magic' encounters... He did hear whispers though in Live Together, Die Alone...
Jin/Sun (42) -- Have either of them ever had a magic Island encounter? Whispers? Visions? - I'm blanking... Jin battled the super-charged, oft-resurrected Patchy, but that's not quite the same.
Possibly I'm just grasping at straws here.
Also, sorry to post the link twice, but I'd like one on this 2nd comments page, too: Read my extensive analysis of the mysteries revealed in this episode at my blog - www.sagaciouspenguin.blogspot.com
Verification Word: Gapsques - Muslim places of worship that also sell quality brandname clothing. Also available are Baby Gapsques as well as Gapthedrals (for Christians).
Sayid saw Speaking-Backwards Walt with Shannon in the jungle. But since he wasn't dead, more of a projection(?), I don't know how it ties in.
VW prooz - the lazy way to say primordial ooze.
It would be great to see Patrick McGoohan on there, as Number 2.
"Suze, be a doll and fax me over some prooz, pronto."
God catch on Sayid and Walt. I hope someday we'll know if that was Walt himself or Island trickery. I'm guessing the latter since Taller Ghost Walt seemed to be the Island leading Locke to knife Naiomi. But then why is Walt the only living person the Island has ever provided a vision of?
We've seen living people in Island-induced dreams like Boone and Eko for Locke, (1.19 and 2.21) and Claire and Hurley for Charlie (2.12)... but Walt was an apparition-like vision, not a dream.
Note that the Island can also make apparitions of dead people not on its shores, though: Ben's mom (3.20) and possibly Dave (2.18), though the latter may have just been Hurley's subconscious... I'm hoping, however, that Hurley's ability to conjure a companion as real as Dave is what's led to his current ability to talk with visions of dead people...
Can anyone else think of times that Island visions have appeared as someone living or someone whose body wasn't even on the Island?
Verification Word: Tratap - "It's a Tratap!" Admiral Ackbar shouted, a mixture of fear and self-loathing in his bulbous eyes.
@ Nikki:
"Does this mean that Jacob is only merely dead, and is NOT most sincerely dead?"
This is from Looney Tunes, right? I keep signing it in my head and it's driving me nuts!
Tanyam
@Joan Crawford - VW: Aquarac - Pretty sure this name was kicked around for the "Water Bra".
I swear, sometimes I just come here for your jokes. But I’m no stalker. :||
I am loving the Sawyer long con theory, but remember, this guy was conned by Ben (master con artist) and Hurley (con artist apprentice), so he is actually not that hard a con target. That said, I think he has his own agenda, and wouldn’t just walk off with some weird entity. I was encouraged by his George and Lenny move.
@The Shout: It would be great to see Patrick McGoohan on there, as Number 2
Ohhh! That would have been so much fun! I wonder if it's on there somewhere ...
VW: disesew - a really yucky sickness
@Anonymous - it's not Looney Toons, it's The Wizard of Oz. The munchkins singing about The Wicked Witch.
VW - maidbox - awww, c'mon. A place where the cleaning lady keeps her....pledge.
@Blam: Paul? I think it was Paul. Ha! And he had an ankh! Were any of us making Paul Anka jokes at the time? Seems like I'd have remembered that...
Man, I don't think we were, but boy howdy, we shoulda been...
And it's true that we don't know how much of his soliloquy was even true, although it seemed heartfelt if not dual-purposed in being both honest and designed to elicit Sawyer's companionship.
Personally, I didn't doubt the sincerity of what he said (but that's just me; time will tell if he's a humongous liar or not) but that soliloquy is a great example of saying nothing by saying a lot. Sawyer asks him who he is, and he goes into this spiel about how he's a man who's loved and lost, etc. Which really didn't answer Sawyer's question. I think Sawyer was looking for an answer a little less...existential. :)
The way I heard it was Ilana saying that Actual John Locke was stuck in his own dead body and there was nothing more to be done for him.
As I recall it, Ben asked Ilana why she had to bring Locke's body to the beach, and she said it was so everyone would know what they were up against (Smokey). Then Ben asked, what's to prevent what we're up against from looking like someone else and Ilana responded that he can't, that's he's now stuck like this (Locke).
But I see how that could be interpreted to mean that Dead Locke is locked in place and not Fake Locke. As always, time will tell.
@Sagacious Penguin: the lower the number, the better likelihood of candidacy.
My wife thought the same thing: that Locke was first on the list of candidates, then Hurley, etc. It's an interesting idea. I'm curious to see how it pans out.
apologies if this comes up twice!
@jazzygirl - I also have a husband who struggles to follow what is going on. his best quote came when locke was in the bath talking about detsiny...."they could have done a better job with those tiles"
We've seen Ethan and Ben pop up where we didn't expect them but where they fitted right in, so wouldn't it be great if Juliet popped up, in one of Sawyers episodes maybe? or have they killed her off for good now?
Wouldn't Cindy's name be on the cave wall? and zach and emma? Jacob bought them to the island too and they were on the list so why aren't they candidates?
following on with theories that you have to die to get the the island and MIB/Jacob taking on the forms of the dead, how about the whole thing ends with jack dying in the new timeline and waking up on the island (with the eye opening shot from the first episode), maybe jack that we've been watching all along has been inhabited. or am i going too far?
ps - about time for some more desmond please?
On the thread of the numbers being a ranking system of importance, what if it is shown to be this:
3. Ji Yeon (conceived on island)
2. Walt (weird connections to the island)
1. Aaron (born on island)
Children seem to be a big commodity on the island and the three who seemed to be very important are all off island. I have no idea where I'm going with this, but I think there's something there.
@Terri Wouldn't Cindy's name be on the cave wall? and zach and emma? Jacob bought them to the island too and they were on the list so why aren't they candidates?
It's possible they are, and we just didn't see them. It's a big cave, after all. Then again, perhaps not every survivor of flight 815 is a candidate.
I'm curious what makes one a candidate over someone else. Flocke seemed to suggest that Jacob visited the candidates before they came to the island, rather than by visiting them, he marked them as candidates. So he somehow knew Jack, Hurley, etc. were candidates and then left the island to help get them to the island. But how did he determine they were candidates in the first place? It's a big question.
ps - about time for some more desmond please?
Agreed!
Why can't '42 - Kwon' be for both Sun and Jin, as we saw Jacob touch both of them. Then I thought that maybe Kate and Jack get married and both share the same last name as a result. Kate was touched by Jacob. Does it make her special that she isn't on the list but touched non the less.
Like most people I don't know what the numbers mean. But of the few we are given, none reach above 360. So are the numbers associated with names, degrees. Much like Ben told Michael to take a bearing of 325 degrees, or Daniel told Desmond to keep to 305 degrees. I don't know where something like this might get us. But then why isn't Kate's name up there? Is Jacob's plans for a patriarchy? But there was Littleton, supposedly Claire or maybe Aaron.
I just had a thought about Michael and I apologize if it's been talked about in previous posts. Supposedly he was brought to the island on the freighter by Ben, aka "Ben's Man on the Boat". And Ben was getting his instructions from Jacob. And remember the conversation with Mr Friendly about the island NOT ALLOWING Michael to kill himself. When Michael was on the boat, he tried to detonate the bomb, and Ben was shocked by this. But then there is ANOTHER bomb, rigged by Keamy and set off by Ben. Does anyone remember who appears to Michael right before the bomb goes off? I do. It was Christian saying "You can go now". Michael saw Christian, aka Smoky, aka Man in Black, OFF ISLAND. Jack also saw Christian off-island, donning the white sneakers he was wearing in the coffin, sitting in the lobby of the building where his office was.
Don't know what to make of this line of thought either.
@Karolyn: the manifestations of Christian remain a big question mark. It's unclear if all appearances are the result of Smokey taking his form, or if there's something else at work.
At times, it seems like there's two Christians: a talkative one, wearing "island" clothes (this is the Christian who appeared with Claire and tasked Locke with moving the island) and the silent, suit-wearing Christian that Jack sees.
One theory is that the talkative one is Smokey, using Christian's image to further his own goals while the other one is a manifestation of Jacob or the Island, but the truth remains to be seen.
Thanks Karolyn,
I was doing the laundry and it came to me. *whew* I'm glad it wasn't in the middle of the night, as is usual for me.
Tanyam
Finally go through 221 comments, though I am sure more will be up by the time I post this....
Deb: 10 MATTINGLEY, 283 JONES, 317 CUNNINGHAM (MATTINGLEY, JONES, & CUNNINGHAM were the names on the US soldiers uniforms worn by Widmore and friends when they caught Sawyer & Juliet in 1954 I think, not certain though)
Thank you! This makes perfect sense. It seems most of (though not entirely confirmed) the candidates somehow arrive at the island and are outsiders. Also, I am pretty sure Jacob wouldn’t be a Yankees fan. That would be too evil. And I can say that since I am a native Brooklyn-ite.
@Trace – I am just barely following but I concur. I think somehow the incident was and wasn’t the bomb, and both happened, and the only way to reconcile things is when the timeline comes together. Also, I have definitely done the “started typing 90 min ago and it all made sense then” entries. :)
@Fred – I am grooving on the notion that the bomb had retro active effects. We certainly have been given plenty of information to suggest that things changed prior to the incident, and yet they may still have been influenced by the incident.
I am looking forward to finding out what was influenced by Jacob – of which we have hints – what was influenced by Smokey and what was influenced by the island. The main difference seems to be that Jacob can influence things off island, but Smokey influences things only ON island. I’m not sure if the child represents the island, as I would think it would want protection, but then, we do not have all the facts (Ha! Double Ha!) so who knows, maybe the Smokey entity desire to leave the island (and thereby destroy it??) is fair play and doesn’t actually destroy it. Yes/No?
@Sagauscious Penguin – re: Kwon surreal encounter – so far, I think only Sun (with Frank) has seen Christian. Nothing comes to mind for Jin.
@Marebabe – I mentioned this previously re: Sawyer and the long con. I definitely think he is up for it, and probably has an idea of the stakes involved, but, also, he is also a surprisingly easy con target. He was conned most notably by Ben, Hurley, Ana Lucia, and even Kate (I think). If Hurley can con him (though I have more respect for Hurley now as a smarter-than-he-seems guy then at the time) then MiB can certainly run the long con on him.
If we think the Incident/Jughead has retrocausative effects (not just a fork in the road), we may get some hints of this next week in a Jack-centri episode. Especially concerning Jack's relationship with his father. In "White Rabbit" Christian was hard on Jack, and also showed signs of alcoholism. If things show up differently in the next episode, then we'll know there is more than just a fork in the road.
I am also wondering now that the ladder broke on the cliffside, how are Sawyer and Locke going to get out? Does the cave have an exit at the other end, like the stations did? If so, why didn't they first use it? I get the impression both MiB and Jacob used the cave. Maybe they even discussed the candidates there. And possibly it was MiB who was crossing out names.
Linus was crossed out, and he is still alive. Perhaps he was not a candidate because he was sidetracked, as Richard said, with fertility issues. But Linus may have been chosen as a candidate because he saw his mother. Richard would have told Jacob of this, and, it would have proven to Jacob, Ben was a possible candidate. So is this what Widmore refered to when he said to Ben, "I know what you are, boy." That Ben is/was a candidate, or perhaps a failed candidate?
I found this list that someone has compiled:
4 - Locke (John)
8 - Reyes (Hurley)
10 - Mattingley - Other
15 - Ford (James)
16 - Jarrah (Sayid)
23 - Shephard (Jack)
31 - Rutherford (Shannon)
42 - Kwon (Jin or Sun)
56 - Burke - (Juliet)
64 - Goodspeed (Ethan Horace Olivia or Amy)
70 - Faraday (Daniel)
73 - Costa - ?
90 - Troupe - (Gary :author of "Bad Twin")
115 - Bargas - ?
117 - Linus (Ben, Roger)
119 - Almeida - ?
142 - Lewis (Charlotte)
171 - Straume (Miles)
195 - Pace (Charlie)
222 - O'Toole - U.S. Military
233 - Jones - U.S. Military
291 - Domingo - U.S. Military
313 - Littleton (Claire or Aaron)
317 - Cunningham - U.S. Military
337 - Martin (Karl) - Other
346 - Grant - U.S. Military
Partial
20 - Rous (Possibly Rousseau)
25 - ___
30 - ___
33 - ___
49 - Cha (Possibly Chang)
62 - ___
251 - ___
260 - ___
272 - ___
285 - Jen (Possibly Jenkins)
__ - Reynolds
__ - Sullivan
__ - Lacombe
Looking for Biblical references, is there any significance to Sawyer and Lockalike descending "Jacob's Ladder"?
Are we assuming it's Jacob's cave and that he put the names there just because Lockalike (MIB) says so? After all, Lockalike throws out the white stone and he's the one who crosses out Locke's name.
A great recap of a brilliant episode IMO. When you mentioned the MIB/ Jacob feud mirroring that of Ben and Widmore, as well as them not being able to kill each other. I always perceived that the reason Ben couldn't kill Widmore was probably because the Island wasn't yet finished with him (Widmore), like it wasn't with Michael (i.e. not allowing him to kill himself when he was off island).
@Nikki said…
The rift would have happened in 1977, not sooner... which begs the question, did all of Jacob's contact with people happen post-1977? The earliest we saw was James, and that was in 1978. Kate is a little younger than he is, and he touches her when she's about 8 or 9, so that would be a little later.
I may be incorrect here, but I believe Sawyer's parents were killed in 1976. I believe Kate mentioned the bicentennial postmark in a season 1 episode and when Sawyer talks to Jack in "The Incident" (1977) he mentions what happens to his parents and says it was a year ago.
When Jacob meets young Kate it must be in the mid to late 80's as evidenced by the frakking awesome NKOTB-New Kids on the Block lunchbox she's stealing.
So, it would seem that all of Jacob's contact with our characters occurred post-incident, except Sawyer
I have been a lost fan since day one, but only found out about this blog this year. You are all unbelievable! I feel like I am home!
Anyway, has anyone really thought about who is llana? I was thinking that the bandages were from surgery to change her appearance so that she would not be recognized and that she will end up being somebody from one of the earlier seasons that we have all kind of forgot about. Any thoughts?
Richard told Sawyer that Not Locke wants everyone dead. Maybe the list is Not Locke's of those that are dead and not Jacob's list of candidates. Actually, they could both be working off the same list.
Not Locke also tells Sawyer that he is sure that Sawyer did meet Jacob. How can he be sure? Was it actually him impersonating Jacob that touched everyone?
Is the presence of a lute on the table in the cave of any significance?
Sonshine Music: It seems to me he joined the marijuana growers after Cooper stole his kidney.
Once in a while a sentence pops up in our discussions that's perfectly reasonable in context but also utterly, hysterically absurd. This is one of those times. 8^)
...
VW: equilvot — A magic spell that guarantees the election will end in a tie.
My apologies, but since last night it seems like a lot of my posts are showing up twice (not just on this blog, either).
Mike Renna: Here's a shot of the card with the black bar / heart
Thanks! It makes my graphic-designer soul a little happier.
Jenn: I am very, very old school, and so the idea of rewinding a PVR, or pausing my TV just don't exist for me.
You think that's old school? I had to rewind my VCR. And I'd probably never pause the show while watching it the first time through even if I could.
VW: luouser — Someone who brought lice to the luau.
Steven Christopher Coleman said...
"Why can't '42 - Kwon' be for both Sun and Jin, as we saw Jacob touch both of them...."
I wondered the same thing about Jin and Sun since they were both touched by Jacob at the same time. Their story throughout the series has for the most part been treated as one story (until season 5 even their centrics were shared); so I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Kwon could be both.
@Fred - I also like your theory of retrocausative effects. I think we will see a lot of differences in otherverse and I'm not sure they will be able to explain them all by a split in the timeline from 1977 onward.
Jessica said...
"I may be incorrect here, but I believe Sawyer's parents were killed in 1976. I believe Kate mentioned the bicentennial postmark in a season 1 episode and when Sawyer talks to Jack in "The Incident" (1977) he mentions what happens to his parents and says it was a year ago."
You are exactly right with what you say here. Sawyer's parents died in 1976.
Gary said...
"Anyway, has anyone really thought about who is llana? I was thinking that the bandages were from surgery to change her appearance so that she would not be recognized and that she will end up being somebody from one of the earlier seasons that we have all kind of forgot about. Any thoughts?"
I wondered about Ilana's bandages as well, but I saw this about that. (I think it was on an extended version of "The Incident" that aired with the captions at the bottom.) It said that Ilana had been burned in an accident. That was all. What the accident was and how she was involved wasn't addressed. Perhaps it will be this season. (I hope this isn't considered a spoiler since it aired on TV.)
In the scene where Locke is in the bath Helen is talking to a wedding coordinator on the phone and says, " well the wedding is in October!!" Doesn't this imply that it is not yet October as the sonogram from Claire's trip to the hospital may have falsely indicated
I have read all the comments, but I don't remember if someone asked this question or not and I have a feeling they won't answer it on the show. Anyway, if Locke did not attend the conference and did not go on the walk-about, what did he do while he was in Australia?
I also wonder (like others have said) how Sawyer and unLocke are going to get back up the cliff now that the ladder(s) are broken.
@Deb: if Locke did not attend the conference and did not go on the walk-about, what did he do while he was in Australia?
I've seen a couple of people ask this, and it's a good question. Here's what I think is the answer:
He did exactly the same as he did in the original timeline. Now, I have no idea as to what that is, but as you will remember, Locke didn't go on the Walkabout the first time around. So I'm guessing he ended up doing what he did the original time, as there was no Walkabout, and no conference (of course) then either.
Anyway, that's what I think. The only difference between Original Reality and Alter Reality is that in Alter he was supposed to attend a conference. Instead, he went for a walkabout, both times, which he wasn't allowed to attend. He probably just went to the Big Pineapple, the Big Prawn, and the Big Banana, then came home. :)
In thinking about the MIB and his being Not-Locke & Christian, and whoever else, this occurred to me(and I don't know if it has any significance, but I'm curious now):Has post death Christian ever spoken to Jack, or just appeared to him ?
And a second question: has Island Christian ever touched anyone or anything ? Do we know whether he has ever been a "solid form" ?
@Josh: Doesn't this imply that it is not yet October as the sonogram from Claire's trip to the hospital may have falsely indicated
I think you're right; that clearly suggests the current date is NOT October, which means Claire's sonogram was either an error or meant to indicate the due date.
@Paticus: Has post death Christian ever spoken to Jack, or just appeared to him ?
And a second question: has Island Christian ever touched anyone or anything?
I don't *think* Dead Christian has ever spoken to Jack (at least anything more than a word or two). Island Christian has touched things: he held Aaron when he took Claire away, for one, and held the lantern in the Frozen Donkey Wheel cave for another. And I'm pretty sure he handled the picture of the '77 Dharma recruits when showing it to Sun.
Did we see the pilot's name - Seth Norris - on the wall? Maybe Smokey killed him because he mistakenly thought he was Frank Lapidus, who is a candidate. I also posted this on the Jacob = Locke post.
Christian appeared to Jack in the lounge of the hospital when he went to check the smoke detector. Christian was apparently going to have a conversation with him, but after he called Jack over by name another doctor walked in and Christian disappeared.
Gregg Nations has confirmed that part of the date on Claire's sonogram is wrong (prop error), and when asked, he wouldn't be specific about which part, but we can all assume, especially after this last episode, that at least the October part was wrong.
At this point in the show, I have to wonder why these errors are still being made. I think by now they know that Lost fans will scrutinize every detail of the show. According to Lostpedia's list of names on the cave wall, a couple of names show up more than once, which may be intentional or may be yet another error.
@Blam
Believe it or not, next week I'll be watching Lost on VHS tape myself. Won't be home at 9:00, and I will be programming my VCR to tape the show so that I can watch when I get home. The best part of all this—fast-forwarding through the commercials! LOL
So, if MIB can't kill the candidates, then how does that relate to Ben and Widmore not being allowed to kill each other either? I'm really confused about Widmore/Ben.
I loved this episode. I am always so disappointed when the LOST screen shows up at the end. I could have sworn this episode was only 20 minutes in length.
Did anyone else think that the blonde boy in the jungle had aged between the first and second sighting? If so then maybe Jacob had to start over but at fast forward. Lockalike may have realized by seeing him that he must work fast.
Also, I still wonder why dead Locke needed to wear Christian's shoes to come to the island. Does there need to be a crossover item for Smokey to move from one to the other? My memory is a little fuzzy but it seemed that when Lockalike got out of the boat with Sun and Frank he changed shoes or he had taken them off in the boat and was putting them back on. The shoes may be just a red herring but very interesting. This is so much fun
s
Teebore: As I recall it, Ben asked Ilana why she had to bring Locke's body to the beach, and she said it was so everyone would know what they were up against (Smokey). Then Ben asked, what's to prevent what we're up against from looking like someone else and Ilana responded that he can't, that's he's now stuck like this (Locke).
Okay. I got a chance to watch the scene again. You remember correctly, but I see how my (likely) mistake was made: Ilana does a backward head-nod right at Dead Locke in the Hammock when she says, "now that he's stuck like this" (or whatever the exact line is). The head-nod I guess emphasized the "like this" as in "looking like this" but it came across as emphasizing (to me) the, uh, actual words that she was saying, as in, "now that Locke is stuck in this state of no-longer-breathing". Curiously, the closed-captioning reads, "Look, as long as we're going over this, yes, that was The Black Rock, now stop making trouble."
...
VW: dehortic — Of the removal of one's encouragement.
Waitasec. Maybe burying bodies is the Thing to Do because should Smokey be in the form of a dead body when it's buried he'll be trapped in that form. Of course, Dead Locke wasn't actually buried yet when Ilana said, "now that he's trapped like this" and you'd think that Smokey would vacate the Lockalike body if he could under the presumption that the gang left at the Foot would go ahead and bury Locke ASAP, but, y'know, when in doubt come up with yet another theory.
Valerie: This is so much fun
And that's the name of the game.
...
VW: preae — Almost the female plural of Prius.
@Valerie: This whole notion that Smokie/MiB needs some item from the dead person to imitate their form seems a little odd. But hey, we don't know the whole rules behind this game. If possession is 9/10ths of bodily representation, then you'd think Smokie could not have imitated Yemi, since the crucifix on a chain was removed by Eko and the body was burned. But you may be right, this whole business of shoes may be a red herring that has been, dare I say it, an inside joke on the part of the writers. In the Pilot (Season 1), much was made of the fact Charlie had on checkered black/white shoes. We saw a white runner in the fork of a tree, but when we saw Christian he had on his white runners. Did he stop and go back for the runner lost in the tree? In my most cynical moments, I get the impression we've been guided by the show's writers down particular paths that turn out to be fruitless. Haw many times have characters said something that struck us as significant, only to have those words vanish into the air. Is Locke really going to save us all, says once living, and now dead, Charlie? What really did that riddle of the shadow of the statue mean? Is it all mute since Locke is dead? Or does it mean that Ben will save them all? He who LIES (not laying horizontal on the ground) will save us all.
One thing that puzzled me was MiB wanting to escape the island. Now we've seen Jacob leave the island. But didin't we see Smokie leave as Christian in one of the flashforwards, when Jack saw his dead father in the lounge? The smoke detector going off was a not too subtle hint that Christian was Smokie. And we've seen MiB on the Hydra, an island separated by some short stretch of water. So like as not, MiB can leave the island. So what does escape mean? This world? This dimension?
Smokie trapped in Locke's form, is much like in chess where a pawn can become another piece once it crosses the board. Most people change it to the Queen, but once it's changed that's it. I guess we'll learn answers to this new mystery along with the billion other mysteries that need answering. Like now, how does writing a name on a cave wall automatically cause that person named to come to the island? Does Jacob have such an understanding of cause and effect that he can predict how a subtle push will effectively result in a desired outcome. Seems so. So than a new mystery--how does Jacob see all these possibilities and when to give someone a gentle push. I am thnking of the Roman Fates.
Iggy Pop is an appropriate band choice for LOST, as Iggy Pop and the Stooges got their start in Ann Arbor, Michigan playing for university students.
Curiously, the closed-captioning reads, "Look, as long as we're going over this, yes, that was The Black Rock, now stop making trouble.
Hah!
@Valerie...it does feel like the episode was only 20 minutes. But on a serious note...does it seem to anyone else that there's a LOT of commercials this season? It's so frustrating! Like in the premiere, I kept an eye on the clock and every 10 minutes there were commercials! Argh!! I just feel like they're worse this season than normal. So we really are only getting like 40 min of show. :(
Did you notice? Cassidy and Locke/Helen have the same mugs! And me too! :D
Hi guys!
I'm back! Well... not at home... I'm in sunny, beautiful Mexico (which was cold, rainy, dreary Mexico yesterday, which made us incredibly worried we'd chosen the wrong week to come!) and my son is napping in the hotel room right now so I'm sitting here in the dark on a laptop and catching up with y'all.
I don't know if anyone is still reading these comments this far down, and most of the stuff I'm reading way back has probably already been covered, but I'll go in order anyway.
@paleoblues and Teebore: great discussion about the substitute teachers (it seemed like it was getting a little heated for a minute, but then it was all right in the end... you guys are so awesome; I honestly feel like I just don't need to worry about my comments board at ALL when I'm away!) and I was really intrigued by it.
Here's what might be an oversimplification of the answer from my point of view: Paleoblues was asking when Locke would have gone to college (if he needed those credentials) and if not, how would he have passed any background checks if he'd been at a marijuana farm, etc.
My thinking is if (and this is a big if, since you never know on Lost) the AU is a result of what happened in 1977, then things only changed after that. In the original timeline, Locke didn't appear to go to college (he might have, but we didn't actually see it if he did). In the AU, he would have been 21 in 1977, so if he went to college in the original, then he went to the one here, and vice versa. But anything after that -- the toy store, the marijuana farm, etc. -- would be different. Maybe he suddenly felt a burden lift from him when the island went down (if he really is spiritually tied to it) and he went to college after all. Maybe he just took a different path and works in a state where you don't need a degree to do it.
Of course, all of these are big ifs, and I probably didn't help Teebore and paleoblues at all just then. ;)
Frazer: According to the 'Mysteries of the Universe' expose of the DHARMA Initiative from the Season 5 DVD, this is one of the questions asked in interviews for potential DI members. Is this just an inside joke for the fans or could the DI still exist in some capacity (off island obviously) in the ALT timeline?
Wow, awesome catch! I like this a lot.
Trace: When Sawyer sees 23 - SHEPHARD on the wall, and asks "Shephard...that'd be Jack Shephard?", MIB says "He's not the only one."
Another great catch. I always like looking at the actual scripts because when you see the words on the page like this, it really illuminates certain things that were purposely misleading in the delivery. Good one!
And welcome to the blog!!
And later... Then there's the ones who experienced the OU Incident. You know, where the plan didn't work, because the energy pocket is still around in 2004. The plan didn't work, so this version of the timetravellers didn't go anywhere. Those dudes are SCREWED with Dharma, and probably the Others too. (Richard: "don't ask me, all i know is they took our bomb, and uh they knocked out poor Eloise here too") I think that this is the version of the survivors that Richard saw die.
Whoa. My head just exploded... I remember in S5 accepting the 'whatever happened, happened' theory that they always went back and always did those things, but of course this season I'm thinking of the AU as the world where Jack dropped the bomb and the island sank, and just assumed the original reality was the one where they never went back. BUT if they ALWAYS went back then Jack must have made a different decision in one timeline or something happened where they all died but they didn't actually drop a bomb (thereby not taking everyone else -- and the island -- with them).
Whoa, you've really given me a lot to think about!
Mark: I tried to read as many as possible so sorry if said already. I don't see why 42 can't refer to sun and Jin like they are two parts of 1 whole. 2+2=4 or you could read it as for 2. It may be a bit tenuous but we don't know for sure that each number only refers to 1 person. It could relate to whole families.
Shepherd could relate to jack and Christian. Either way whoever wrote out all the numbers has a lot of time on their hands. The devils hands are idle playthings.
I was talking to a work colleague the day after the show and when she said, "Kwon... Jin or Sun?" I joked, "Well, they WERE number 42, so maybe one is 4 and one is 2? And same with Shephard, 23... one is 2 and one is 3." But then Locke is already 4, so could 2 people be the same number? Good observation!
Sagacious Penguin: Sayid (16) heard whispers and... um... saw a cat?
This made me laugh out loud! Well, he also shot Ben... he deserves some island points for that one. ;)
The Shout: It would be great to see Patrick McGoohan on there, as Number 2.
LOL!!! OH MAN how I wish Sawyer had waved his fist and yelled, "I am NOT a num-bah! I am a FREE MAN!"
Deb: 10 MATTINGLEY, 283 JONES, 317 CUNNINGHAM (MATTINGLEY, JONES, & CUNNINGHAM were the names on the US soldiers uniforms worn by Widmore and friends when they caught Sawyer & Juliet in 1954 I think, not certain though)
Oh, GREAT CATCH!! Yes, those were definitely the soldiers on the island. Did Jacob bring them to the island, too?!
Gary: I have been a lost fan since day one, but only found out about this blog this year. You are all unbelievable! I feel like I am home!
Welcome home! :)
Anyway, has anyone really thought about who is llana? I was thinking that the bandages were from surgery to change her appearance so that she would not be recognized and that she will end up being somebody from one of the earlier seasons that we have all kind of forgot about. Any thoughts?
That has been my thought all along. Who could it be? I can't wait to find out!!
First comment: I read most of the ones here, but may have missed it if someone already posted. When Helen was on the phone she said to caterer something like "But the wedding is in October" which means it is not October yet. That comment brings me back to the date of Claire's sonogram which was 10/22/04. It was believed by Nikky that it must have the date of the sono, not her due date, which I suggested. So, I still believe it was her due date, or a really bad blooper on the part of continuity people.
At temple, they all had to say their names out loud. Kate also said her name, which, I kind of believe meant she was on list, and thus, still a candidate.
CBP68: I don't think Esau/non-Locke had to be smokey to fly into cave, I do believe he or, most likey Jacob) built the ladder so they could get in. Jacob would have needed it as he did not turn into smoke monster.
I do not think names/numbers on wall for Shepherd would be christian, as he is dead. As we saw, non locke crossed off Locke's name and thus, Christian would be crossed off, too, if it were his name.
Just watched "The Substitute" again. This time with my husband, as he was in Mexico last week and couldn't watch it live. He liked it, definately more interested than last week. No blackberry action.. The only unsolicited comment that came out of him during the show was when the first appearance of the "blonde boy" occured. He didn't even ask, "Who's that?". He just said..."That's Jacob" I questioned him. "Why do you think it's Jacob?" He said, "Because it's like Jesus. Jesus died, and he came back." The blood on his hands sealed the deal for him. The last time I recalled Jesus in this twisted story of LOST, I thought John Locke had become the new Sayid. Boy was I wrong.
But my husband doesn't get into LOST the way the rest of us do, and he is usually right in his predictions in all shows and movies that we watch. I, for one, am not at all sure. Personally, I go along with the "Smokey's son" theory as well as a general Island apparition, as in the Island itself is a character. Time will tell.
Is there any way that the numbers could represent the numbers on a fortune cookie? We had Chinese food last night and my fortune leapt out at me! Could it be the "game" that every says the island is playing? Could it be so simple? Sometimes you wonder what does "X" represent? Sometimes its just an X..... I am still stuck on the backgammon game with Locke and Walt. Pushing the numbers was also a "game". Could this be where everyone that plays gets a different ending? Remember in "Men in Black" where the tiny ball that was on the necklace, was really a whole universe?
I bet the producers and writers read this blog and say, "those LOST fans are cra-zazy!!!!"
Or some kind of video game where you explode and start over. Or a computer program like SimCity or in this case SimIsland. Or like the Twilight Zone episode "Five Characters in Search of an Exit" when they all end up being dolls in a barrel. Any ending like this would sure result in some angry fans.
Don't know if these have been commented on but one thing I noticed was the Locke's alarm sounded like the alarm in the hatch.
Something else, all those names in the cave, could it be that Jacob has tried to change histories of many other groups of people over a long period of time? Is this the closest the MiB has gotten to achieving his goals with this particular group of people?
@Nikki - Yes, people are still reading and commenting on this thread. I myself have just finished reading the newest comments, but I'm too tired to add anything illuminating tonight. Maybe tomorrow. As a recent defector from DarkUFO (I got tired of all the bickering they do over there), I find it refreshing to come to a site with intelligent, insightful people who are also respectful and courteous. I hope I can add something occassionally.
Ilana = Anna Lucille
I don't know if this has been noted, as I had to stop reading comments at 150, but at the very end of the episode, Flocke says, as the third choice, "We can get the hell out of here." Sawyer answers, "Hell, yes."
If we think of Flocke as Lucifer, this is a hint that makes perfect sense. He wants to go home to Hell!
@Nikki: I don't know if anyone is still reading these comments this far down
I get the comments emailed to me, so I always read them, no matter how far down.
I'm glad you were able to resist the lure of Mexican fun in the sun for a bit. :)
@Teebore- thanks for the "touchy" Christian info. :)
Really random thought that came to me just as I drifted off to sleep, but I can't shake it, so I shall post it so you all can laugh at the absurdity...
Ilana = Annie
But Ilana isn't old enough and they don't look anything alike and Ilana has an accent.
Ilana=Gabriela Busoni (Monica Dean who is Romanian) after recovering from plastic surgery on Nip/Tuck as Shari Noble
Why didn't rose recognize locke from plane at temp agency. They were on the same plane days ago, and if it were me, I would recognize and remember a man in a wheelchair, thru customs, etc.
Also, not sure if this was talked about already, I know some parts of it were re: business card that Jack gave Locke, when u look at it close, it has black across top with name of hospital, however, when he is dialing, it is a plain whtie card, no black bordering on top. I am starting to think that the writers/staff/continuity are rushing to an ending and making too many mistakes
I'm surprised no one has noticed the numbers referenced in the cave correspond to the hatch numbers.
I'm surprised no one has noticed the numbers listed in the cave 4 8 15 16 23 42 were the numbers needed in the hatch that Desmond used to punch in the computer.
I don’t know why, but I just got the weirdest kick out of crazed panicky Richard being the unhinged loser trying to lure Sawyer, who just stands there and tells him to get lost before Richard scurries back into the jungle.
Sawyer should have listened to Richard. Alas . . .
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