“John Locke was not a believer, Jack. He was a sucker.”“Whether you like it or not, you’re with him now.”
“Get off my damn boat.”
“Don’t worry, it’s going to be okay. You’re with me now.”
So, in a jokey haiku earlier today I suggested that the last recruit was going to be Jack. Who’d have thunk that haiku would have given me that moment of clarity?
As predicted last week, all of the storylines are coming together this week, with all of the SW stories merging into one (Hurley’s was the only one we didn’t see at all) and all of the island folk pretty much together. Richard/Ben/Miles were the only ones we didn’t see on the island this week. (Bummer, because seriously, aren’t they like a dream road trip trio?? I want to see a National Lampoon movie with these three in it...)
Another great episode that moved us closer and closer to that end, even if it was another bridge ep. Here’s hoping I didn’t miss too many things (as I mentioned earlier today, I’m not feeling well, so I did this rather quickly....)
Highlights:
• Hurley: “You can always bring people back from the Dark Side. Anakin?” Sawyer: “Who the hell’s Anakin?” HAHA!!
• Hurley: “Hey Claire. You look... great.”
• SW Sawyer to SW Kate: “It would never work, Sweetheart. I’m a cop, you’re a murderer...” LOL!!
• I loved the little Jack/Claire reunion, even if she’s nuts. I want to believe the old Claire is still in there somewhere...
• That scene between Desmond and Sayid in the well. Just heartbreaking. (And no, he totally didn’t shoot him. I don’t believe that for a second.)
• “... and that pilot who looks like he stepped off the set of a Burt Reynolds movie.” HAHAHA!!!!
• Sayid’s cold, dead-eyed response to Locke when he asks if he killed Desmond: “Of course I did. Go and check if you’d like.” :::shudder:::
• The look on Jack’s face when Claire tells him Christian was her father. “Uh... um-I-uh... wait, you... uh... WHAT?!”
• Sawyer and Jack disagreeing... will this be the last fight we see between the two of them? SADNESS.
• The Jin/Sun happy ending. In both worlds!!
Answers:
• Christian in “White Rabbit” was actually Smokey. However, we don’t have an explanation for who Christian was in the hospital, since Smokey can’t travel off the island. Was it the same guy? What about the other dead people? Ilana said that Smokey can only look like one person at a time so was he able to also be Yemi, or was he only able to be Christian? What allows him to slough off one body for the other?
The Numbers:
The adoption agency and lawyer are on the 15th floor.
Did You Notice?:
• Jack is asking Hurley’s permission? WHAT?!
• I found Smokey’s rundown of Locke being nothing but a pathetic waste to be really sad... I don’t like the idea that he was completely misguided. I believed in his faith, even when he effed up. I wonder how tough it was for Terry O’Quinn to deliver that line.
• Jack defends John Locke? WHAT?!
• Sun recognizes Smokey in the SW... how did she recognize him? Was the gunshot a jolt? If it was, why didn’t she see the life she had with Jin in the other world, too?
• I love that Ben is actually helpful and tries to save Locke’s life in the SW, whereas he’s constantly trying to kill him in the original timeline.
• Sawyer starts destiny talk with Kate in the SW, and notice how she immediately figures him out (and why he lied) just like she figured out his real name wasn’t Sawyer in the original timeline. (If Kate was a wanted murderer by the FBI, wouldn’t they be holding her in something other than... a chair? Without handcuffs? Constantly turning their backs on her?)
• Miles points to Sayid on the TV and says “That’s our bad guy.” It made me think back to the episode where Kate comes in to see Sam Austen and Sayid – the army’s bad guy – is on that TV, too.
• Kate points out to Jack that Sayid’s different now. He says, “We’re all different now.” “No, Jack, he’s REALLY REALLY different now.”
• “That’s Widmore’s Number Two.” Prisoner reference!!
• Interesting that Zoe gives Smokey until nightfall to turn over Des, just as he gave everyone in the Temple until nightfall to get out.
• Smokey smashes the walkie... he definitely seems to have a thing against technology.
• As soon as Desmond showed up again, I thought, “Ack! What is he going to do to Claire to make HER see??” “I’m gonna throo ya doon some stee-ahs and help ya have a vishun!”
• Desmond to Claire: “It won’t cost you a cent. Trust me... it’ll be my pleasure.” Funny, that was the same pick-up line he used on me...
• I was convinced the lawyer would be Ana Lucia. Didn’t see Ilana coming. She did look rather, ahem, dynamite, though, didn’t she? Ha. Ha. I mean, she really... blew them away with her, erm, explosive beauty? OK. I’ll stop now.
• Interesting that Ilana had an American accent in the SW. That’s what happened if Jacob hadn’t recruited her at a young age and made her go to Eastern Europe to learn how to take care of the candidates for a full 12 minutes before being blowed up real good.
• Jack takes instruction... WHAT?!
• OK, when Sawyer was saying everyone was going to get in the boat, did anyone else suddenly flash in their heads to the outrigger and think, “ZOMG, Sawyer’s going to be shot by Juliet?!” No? Just me? Hm. I just KNOW we’re going to see that outrigger scene at some point... but I’m hoping Widmore’s peeps are in it and Zoe takes one between the eyes. (Seriously, WHY do I dislike her so much? She hasn’t annoyed me the same way Douche and Douchier did in season 3 but there’s just something about her that rubs me the wrong way.)
• That well is like 15 feet deep and Des went head-first... there’s no way he wouldn’t be suffering from a severe spinal injury.
• “I died... and he brought ME back.” Oh, Sayid, do you really want an empty zombified version of Nadia back??
• Sawyer’s Claire logic is unfair... Aaron is STILL her son, and just because she’s “drinkin’ Locke’s Kool-Aid” doesn’t mean she deserves to be abandoned on an island while other people raise her child... none of this was her doing. Disappointed in you, Sawyer...
• Claire’s logic is equally skewed. “He’s the only one that didn’t abandon me.” No, he’s just the one who drew you away from everyone else so they wouldn’t know where you’d gotten to, and completely brainwashed you into thinking it was totally awesome that Aaron was with them and not her, and then they were forced to leave without her because they couldn’t find her. Of course, Claire presumably doesn’t remember any of this; I’m thinking it’s part of Smokey’s mindwipe of her. I felt terrible as she stood by the tree and watched them abandon her... again. Poor Claire.
• As Kate appeals to Claire, you can hear the quiet Claire music that used to play when you’d see her with Aaron on the beach, usually with Charlie. “I never should have raised him. It should have been you.” Go Kate!!!
• I loved David saying to Jack, “I’m sad for YOU, Dad.” I’m already awaiting the Jears-o-meter on the Ack Attack for that one. ;)
• Did you get a load of the look on David’s face? “Whoa... Dad... I have an AUNT. And a SUPER-HOT aunt at that!!! Oh happy happy day!! This is the best reading of a will EVER.”
• I love Jack’s, “Sorry, we have to reschedule.” Um... I’m pregnant and here for only a couple of days from AUSTRALIA. When the hell are we rescheduling to???
• There was a bit of déjà vu when they were all on the boat... remember in “The Lie,” Frank was the one to go under the ship and get refreshments then, too.
• “You wanna take a leap of faith, Jack? Take it.” Eloise told Jack that he had to take a leap of faith to put the shoes on John Locke, and Locke referred to leaps of faith when he was pushing the button.
• Jack jumps off the boat just like Sawyer jumped off the helicopter.
• Jack: “The island is not done with us yet.” Sawyer: “Yeah, well I’m done with this island.” This is the exact exchange that we heard in “316” between Eloise and Desmond, with her telling Des the island isn’t done with him yet, and Des saying he’s done with the island (d’oh).
• Jack to David: “Hey, you okay waiting here for me for a bit while I perform THIRTEEN HOURS OF SURGERY??!!”
• Nikki’s dream line of the entire season: Oh, how I wish Jack had moseyed into that O.R. and said, “Not only am I gonna save this dude’s life, but I’m gonna make him f*cking WALK again. Because I AM A GOD!!!”
• OK, seriously, as much as I was happy to see the Jin/Sun reunion, I thought it was TOTALLY RUINED by those fences!! My husband yelled, “OMG the fence is still on!” and then they were running together and I was screaming, “NO! NO! Stop... wait... don’t” and half-expected both of them to collapse onto the ground frothing at the mouth and bleeding from every orifice. Cripes almighty. I wish Zoe had walked through the fence first just so we knew they were off.
• When the explosion hits the beach, did you see that thing that landed right in front of Jack’s face? It made me think of the episode of Fawlty Towers when Basil is mocking the woman with the hearing aid and leans in and says, “Is this a piece of your brain?!”
So Many Questions...
• What is the significance of the Western Pacific Adoption Agency? Is Paik running it??
• Seriously, how did Miles and Sawyer trace Sayid to that house?? First, he’s a foreigner visiting, and they wouldn’t have him in a database. Secondly, he had a MAJOR head-start on them, and would have gotten there and been long gone by the time they made it to the house. One of the least believable things I’ve seen on the show. Did Sayid stop for one last snow-cone at the 7-11 or something on the way back??
• WHO IS DAVID’S MOM?! Possibles that are left: Sarah again. Juliet. Kate’s twin sister she never knew about (Skaters and Jaters are both happy in the end!). Cassidy. Ana Lucia.
• Seriously, how did he recognize the bloated, upside-down, lacerated face of John Locke from the nice man in the wheelchair at the airport. Ah well...stranger things...
• Wasn’t the deal with Widmore that Sawyer was going to bring Locke over to him and deliver him to everyone?
Me tomorrow:
I’ve joined Facebook! Come and find me. I am here. :)
Tomorrow listen in to Marshall and Forbes on The Ocean 98.5 in Victoria, BC at 6 a.m. local time, 9 a.m. EST. Go here and click on the Listen Now button if you’re out of the listening area.
And tomorrow at noon I will once again be participating in the Globe and Mail Lost chat from noon to 1pm EST. Go here to ask questions and comment. See you there!
And finally, listen to KEX 1190 at 6:20 p.m. PST, 9:20 p.m. EST where I’ll be on the Mark & Dave show (and they’re big Lost fans so it’s always fun). Go here and click the Listen Now button:
Next week:
As I mentioned earlier today, there will not be a new episode next week and instead they’re repeating “Ab Aeterno.” But the Globe and Mail chat will still be on as we talk about the season up to this point and sum up everything.
260 comments:
1 – 200 of 260 Newer› Newest»Gotta hit the sheets. Read tomorrow.
"You're with me now"
FRICK!
While this show had a Jack feeling to it, it definitely was full complement, as the writers said.
1. Why Locke: he was stupid enough to believe. And now we also know he had to be dead.
2. He was Christian... but was he? I had a feeling looking at Locke's face when Jack was asking that he wasn't aware of that one. Remember we never saw Christian's body, and there needs to be one. One theory was that Christian's body was taken to the cabin and when Hugo saw it that's when MIB was taking his appearance. So the suited Christian could be a ghost/island manifestation or whatever...
I have a recent post on the different Christian appearances over on my blog!
3. Sun's near death experience made her remember Locke when they were being brought in the hospital side by side.
4. "Who the hell is Anakin?"
5. Ilana as the last will and testament executor (?) and also as a friend of Desmond (and hence of Widmore)
6. Sayid getting 'garden hosed'!
7. Sawyer:
-On Frank being straight from a Burt Reynolds movie! Haha!
-On Claire having drunk Locke's Kool-Aid... another zinger!
8. Frank:
-"That smoke things can run a lot faster then we do." Haha!
-"Look like someone got their voice back" Hadn't even noticed myself.
9. Jack: "The island is not done with us yet."
But he doesn't mean Locke, neither did Widmore. But what happens with Jack now?
10. Jack all happy with David was nice to see. Jin's "We're all going to be OK" was sweet.
11. Jack: "I think I know this guy"
12. Locke: "You're with ME now" - That. Does not. Sound. Good.
I hardly know what to think, getting so many answers to big questions all in a row! I like it.
To anyone whose dread of the End of LOST is ruining your enjoyment of these last episodes, I would just encourage you to relax and enjoy every minute of the story as it unfolds.
Nice summary and a lot of great catches. I feel the show is getting more open now and a lot less mysteries being thrown out and, even though we don't have direct answers, there seems to be a resolution coming - though I really don't feel the direction it's going in.
You can feel the resolution but not its direction, and that's definitely building up tension and anxiety in the viewers I think.
I find it AWE-SOME!
Two comments to your review!
@Nikki • [...](If Kate was a wanted murderer by the FBI, wouldn’t they be holding her in something other than... a chair? Without handcuffs? Constantly turning their backs on her?)
Nitpicking, but actually, he arrested her for something and just now got back from the system and finding out about her file. He's probably moving her as we speak, so to speak!
Nikki • Smokey smashes the walkie... he definitely seems to have a thing against technology.
Also, he found a purpose for that stick!
Nice job, Nik! Hope you are feeling better. Even though this was a "moving the pieces" episode, I found it very satisfying indeed. The hint was there early, from Hurley's line about bringing people back from the dark side - redemption for Sayid and Claire? MIB is definitely off his game now, making misjudgments and incorrectly assuming that his plans are working.
Two weeks is a LOOOOONG time to wait for more. Ah, well - lots to talk about with this one!
Verification word: "ackshe" - writes the craziest recaps!
Yeah, I hope that Locke still has a role to play other than "sucker". He was such a strong chracter during this whole series (up until he died anyway). I would hate for this to be the way they wrap up his character's role.
Glad to know I wasn't the only one screaming, "The fence!!" at the tv. ;)
Also... as JS and I started discussing on my blog, I'm not sure I believe Locke when he said it was him in White Rabbit. In fact, I believe in The Beginning of the End, when Hurley sees Christian in the cabin, it may have been the MIB taking over Christian's personality!
There is still a Christian body somewhere on the island, just as there is a Locke body on the island, in fact buried!
Two deja vus:
Kate telling Sawyer "We have to go back for Jack" only this time while going to Hydra Island instead of fleeing it.
Sawyer is a jerk (ok maybe not a deja vu, just a character trait).
Nikki we were also waiting for the sonic fence thingy to zap Jin and Sun, but at least they are FINALLY together. Way overdue, once Jin made it to Sun's time.
Why I don't think Des is dead: they would have shown us if Sayid had killed him. I think Des's question -- what would you tell Nadia? -- hit Sayid and maybe snapped him out of his funk. He seemed to have a different attitude toward John.
Recruiting - I am not sure how this whole recruiting thing works – how is Jack “with” Locke now? Claire said “you were with him as soon as he talked to you”. Is letting him talk to you the way you get recruited? Not even taking his hand? He has spoken to everyone except Jack until then, so does that mean he has recruited them all? How do you stop him from talking to you? Is that what Dogen/MiB may have been referring to about letting “him” talk first? How many questions can I fit into this paragraph?
like brother like sister, claire got a head wound and is now brainwashed to smokeys side and now jack is all injured and earsplit-sound-y (make of that phrase what you will, hopefully you know what i mean) and smokey is all "hiii jack, im gonna be creepy and in your face so i can brainwash you into thinking this happened a totally different way than it did" i am so worried. but somehow still hopeful that jack will overcome smokeys brainwashing and fight back somehow. and figure out how to save his sister...possibly.
Re: 6.13 - THE LAST RECRUIT
What a great episode!
Combining the multiple multi-centrics and the on-island action made it feel like a mini yet epic season finale. Not only do we get a bittersweet (but more bitter than sweet!) Jack and Claire reunion in the pre-credits sequence, we also get a Christian-answer reveal!
The flash-sideways are getting really strong now ... And then we got another Jack and Claire reunion! I also loved the Ilana surprise, even if it was just a legal cameo (I still feel her character was poorly developed and badly dealt with it), it was still a surprise.
I really liked the subtle redemptions for Claire and Sayid's characters. Claire's upset over abandonment was underplayed but really touching, as was the Kate and Claire moment near the end. I hope that little heart-tugging scene helps erase some of the Kate hate.
I didn't want this episode to end. My only complaint is that the ending was a little weak (though, stylistically, it was nice touch to begin and end with Jack and Locke face-to-face). But my disappointment is less due to do with the episode itself and more with the scheduling. Given the brief hiatus, I was hoping for a really exciting mini-cliffhanger.
All in all, I loved this episode and can't wait to rewatch it tomorrow in better quality.
I completely agree about the Jin/Sun moment! My wife and I were both saying, "No! Stop! No, no, no!" thought sure they would die right there in each other's arms. It didn't help that the camera panned back to add the pylons inthe shot. Couldn't enjoy the moment at all!
What was the name of the sailboat?
Darlton have an interview in wired, where they say while the story started out as faith vs. science, it really has always been about chaos vs. order, or randomness vs. purpose. With that filter, everything makes sense. Jack believes there is a reason he is there, and that makes all the difference.
It is sad to think that if the island world is the real world, then almost everyone will have true love in the island world, but Jack will lose his son.
I do not believe MiB when he says he was Christian. Too many inconsistencies (Benny has a nice post on this). I think it just goes with MiB trying to convince Jack that everything is a lie/Jacob chose him, but he has no higher purpose.
I was loving Jack in this episode. He stayed true to his follower-ship, and yet followed his intuition.
There were a lot of reused lines in this episode – leap of faith, the island isn’t done with us yet, we have to go back for Jack (guess who said that).
I am confused on Widmore’s use of dynamite. I cannot think explosives will get rid of Smokey, can he? He wouldn’t need Electro-Magneto if it did.
It seems it may be possible for Claire and Sayid to be redeemed, with the emotion and actions they took this episode. Desmond actually got Sayid to stop and think about what he was doing. How do I know Sayid didn’t kill Desmond? He said he needed a moment. Since when has he needed a moment, especially since his zombification? I am not sure how the undead can be redeemed.
I am guessing the smoke monster can NOT go in the submarine since it would be under water.
Jack is believing there is a purpose to him being there. And if Locke wants them to leave the island, than what WOULD happen if they stayed? Sawyer has been there longer than anyone else, besides Claire.
@Nikki – I am with you, Jack has perfect recall of someone he met once at an airport from a squished up face in an mirror. What is the deal with the dural sac – why does every operation Jack has include it? This feels like Ben’s surgery all over. I wonder what he is going to bargain for this time.
Jin & sun – I expected a bigger moment. Why wait til the end of the episode? Wait, now she can speak English?!? Promise to never be apart again, just like Desmond and Penneh. Sawyer looks uncomfortable – lovey dovey jibber jabber.
Why are they lobbing explosives at Locke – he’s the smoke monster? Or is it Jack? You’re with me now!! So now is Jack the highest value recruit? Why is Zoe shooting at Sawyer et al.
“I’m gonna throo ya doon some stee-ahs and help ya have a vishun!”
Hahahahaaha!
I was honestly kinda creeped out by Desmond there - way too persistent, then I again I hate a hard sell. And then weirdo Iliana - I would have been like "Yeah, actually I'm going to leave now, creeps."
I'm so happy to know that I'm not nuts when I notice and react to certain things...like the sonic fence. I was totally going back and forth during the reunion..."omg yes...omg no...omg happiness...omg NO!" LOL!
One thing that I don't think Nikki mentioned was what Sayid was doing when Locke found him. He was looking up at the trees/vines. I took that to indicate he was going to get a long vine to help Des out of the well. Anyone else get that? But he was interrupted when Locke said "where were you?" That was confirmation for me that he's starting to come out of the dark side. At least I hope so! :)
I thought the single tear from Kate when she told Claire that she only came back for HER was very touching.
Sawyer annoyed me this episode, which rarely happens. I get that he wants off, but kick Jack off the boat???
I'm a bit confused about MIB/Locke. He has this "power" to turn into a force that can take anyone and anything out. Yet he rarely uses it. Just seems weird to me that he acts so human all the time. I don't know what I expect but it just seems off.
And yes, Nikki, when they mentioned a boat, I TOTALLY thought they were going to get into outriggers and we'd be in that time period of the shooting.
This was an okay episode. As you said, a bridge. I guess I'd rather go on a two week hiatus on a bridge ep rather than a super duper cliff hanger killer ep. :)
Jin + Sun + Fence= screaming in apparently all of our households! :)
SO glad to see Sawyer kick Jack off the boat, but I can't wait to see how he manages to not get shot by Baby-Face McGee and the Nerd Crew!
Totally bummed about no new episode next week...
That's all my tired brain can come up with now... Burt Reynolds... snikker!
re Christian: I've thought for some time now that there might be 2 "versions" of Christian. A few years ago Damon & Carlton stated in a podcast that the appearances of Christian were the smoke monster, but some of Christian's later appearances don't seem to fit, especially the off-island one to Jack and the freighter one to Michael. If all appearances of Christian are the smoke monster, why did he need to change clothes?
I do like the idea that Locke was lying about being Christian, but he seemed to know that at that point the Losties were desparate for water (though on the other hand he does have Locke's memories...ok I'll stop arguing with myself now).
@Marebabe: Thank you for that...you must have read my mind. I've been having a hard time watching, reading, and thinking about LOST lately. My husband and son were making fun of me tonight as we watched because I got so emotional. I had to hide my face a lot and was surprisingly emotional when Sun and Jin re-united. THANK GOODNESS IT FINALLY HAPPENED. All I can say is that I will really, really miss Lost. *sniff*
Loved that Claire got on board, and when she did, I was yelling to Kate, "Take her rifle." And she did. See...I could be a writer for Lost too.
Jack is like the "Accidental Recruit." He's not really with Locke, but he is feeling the island and therefore can't just bolt yet. I am loving him. So emo. And he looks truly FINE in a suit in the AU. I *heart* Jack. Kate seemed pretty upset at his jump off the Elizabeth. I would have been too.
Desmond is so "strange" in the AU. He is really zen, but at the same time, extremely persuasive...in a forceful like way. Hard to explain.
@Nikki: totally with you on the finding of Sayid thing. The ONLY thing good about that whole scene was the hilarious way in which he was eventually caught...tripping over a garden hose. Otherwise, completely unrealistic. But...the story must progress. Also, @Nikki, I was thinking that when Jack saw John in the surgery room, he was seeing the John he knew, from the original time-line, not the John he had just met at the airport a week earlier. He looked in a mirror right before looking down at John. One more point about this...I was commenting to my family that this was so familiar a scene as to when Jack was operating on Ben back on Hydra Island 3 years ago.
I loved this episode, but am very tired and will need to start again tomorrow. As for what Marebabe said, I am getting sadder and sadder before and after each episode. Loving and hating all at the same time.
Namaste.
Claire must be the most trusting person in LA. First, after very little prodding, she gets in a car with an accused murderer who just had a gun to her head. Now she is following creepy Desmond to a lawyer’s office. The fact that he would pay for it all should have been a tip off. If I am on an elevator and some creepy dude says, “hey, we’re getting off on the same floor”, I’d pull my “oops, pressed the wrong floor” trick and press a new floor and get off immediately.
So did Desmond know that Jack would be there and hope that Jack has his flashes with Claire, or Claire with Jack? He gets more omniscient with every episode.
@scrvet - The boat is the "Elizabeth".
Sawyer calling Frank "Chesty" - BWAH!
Jin/Sun, finally - lovely, and too short. "Somebody got her voice back" - cheesy with extra curds, but awesome because it was said by Frank.
Jack's leap into the water wasn't quite as death-defying as Sawyer's, but a nice parallel.
Didn't much like Sawyer in this episode. Loved Jack both on and off island. His scenes with David are great. I'm still betting that Juliet is David's mother.
I am convinced Desmond got through to Sayid and if Smokey's behind can be whupped, those two might just help Jack do it.
@Susan: I've been on board the 2-Christian theory for a few years now. We've discussed it intensely a few weeks ago (can't remember which ep).
I've always had a soft spot and intrigue about Christian and tried to tie any bit of info from the episodes or podcasts into Christian, but I do not remember any mention of Christian being the smoke monster from the writers - though I am more or less convinced one of the Christians is. Even a few weeks ago I was contemplating the possibility that neither of the Christians actually was the smoke monster.
If you remember the podcast/reference, I'd like to check it out to take a listen/look at it.
Ha! At last I'm in the first 50 comments!
OK, first question: is next week a new ep or not?
Loved loved loved Sun & Jin's reunion, but was also expecting someone to fall over when crossing the fence! Almost screamed "earplugs!"
Douche and Douchier? Hahahahahaha
Not quite satisfied with the Christian explanation. Maybe Smokey was Christian for awhile, but Claire seems to think they're two different people. On the other hand, that would explain why "Christian" told John HE had to move the island.
Last week it looked like Des was falling to at least FDW level. How come the well's so shallow?
I wonder if Jack recognizing Locke in surgery wasn't because of the Oceanic flight, but because of having a crossover moment.
Do you mean to tell me the "Elizabeth" has been moored safe and sound for three years? What?
Must hit hay. More later after I rewatch.
Still want to see Tom!
tramayse: Tramayse! I'm in the first 50 comments!
@BENNY: You're right. When Hurley first looked into the Creepy-Ghost-Cabin, he saw both Christian and an eye (belongin, we can only assume, to MIB). So at some point in time, MIB may have taken possession of Christian's appearance, but that still doesn't explain where the body went...OR DOES IT???
Nope.
@NIKKI: When Jin & Sun ran towards each other, I was looking at those pylons and thinking that they would both realize the pylons were there. Then they would have to stop on either side of them & have a tender, sad moment where they'd WANT to hold one another, but they can't even touch.
See, Darlton, give me a job! LoL
Also,
I agree with what you said about David: "Sweet! I've got a really freakin' hot aunt who...wait, grandpa's will says that we're related by BLOOD? Damn it!"
I thought I heard Liz Lemon or someone say "Turn off the fence" a second before sun crossed it. I could very well be imaging this though.
I was surprised that Nadia let the cops in without a warrant. She seemed to have it together enough to ask for ID but then let him waltz right in.
I was thrilled we got to see some Sayid! I was surprised when Kate stayed with Sawyer on the boat. Poor Crazy Claire - her face when they all left her again. She is a nutjob though - she also apparently has a hearing impairment. She doesn't remember what happened and yet when she is told - she refuses to hear it.
OH! AND! Did you see the whole Sawyer offering THE apple to Kate? That might be a hint about them being Adam and Eve. Or Sawyer as the Devil.
Benny it might take me a while to find the podcast reference, but for right now I can remember this much: D & C were discussing mysterious appearances, and one of them was listing various apparitions, and the other would answer whether it was dream, smoke monster, hallucination, etc. I will do some checking to see if I can find the date of the podcast.
Well I found the podcast, it's from March 21, 2008, and it turns out I did a little assuming combined with bad memory. What actually happens is that D & C label Yemi as monster, and then list Christian, Yemi, and Kate's horse as undead. So I must have extrapolated and assumed Christian was also the monster.
This is why you should always question my facts ;-)
Yes, it was a bridge episode, but at least we're going somewhere now. Here are some of the random thoughts that struck me while I watched this episode.
I knew Desmond didn't die when Locke pushed him down the well. I mean the island let him survive the hatch getting blown up,drowning in the Looking Glass when it flooded and the freighter being blown up. If he really does have a purpose, it ain't going to be stopped by a well.
Creepiest thought. Desmond has become the new Matthew Abadodon. In the sideways world, Desmond was Widmore's most strusted aid. Now he seems to be playing the part of getting characters connected to the island where they mean to be. Admittedly, it might have been a little extreme to run Locke over, but hey, whatever works.
I was really sad to see that this is what the Man In Black thinks of Locke. I really think that the reason Desmond ran him over was because he was trying to find a way to get the real Locke in the same world with Smokey. Maybe that's the only way to drive the demon out. Stranger have happened on this show.
Is this how they begin the process of redemption? Sayid never hesitated about killing anyone so far this season, but he definitely paused before taking aim at Desmond. I think he may have finally reached into the abyss that is Sayid's soul. It's beginning to look like Claire might be salavagable to. The look on her face when Kate finally appealed to her was astonishing. And kudos to Evangeline Lilly in that monologue. I've always said that she was this show's secret weapon.
Thank you, thank you, thank you Darlton for bringing Sun and Jin abck together! I've been praying for this moment for nearly two years, and seeing it mad me weak in the knees. I hope that in some universe there is a chance for a happy ending for them--- together.
And I knew we couldn't trust Widmore! If he ever represented the side of good, I'm a Vampire Slayer.
I'm writing an essay on whether certain TV shows will give us the opportunity for closure (check my blog later this week)and its starting to look like were going to get it with Lost. I'm glad were getting answers, but I'm happuier certain things are being resolved. This is going to be epic.
So good again! It was definitely a bridge, but I'll take it and love it because heck, the end is coming and I'm in denial...
Anyway. Some thoughts I had:
1. Why did Jin say "We're all going to be okay?" Who's he talking about? Is this a crossover to the island world? (or does he just mean him, Sun and baby-to-be?)
2. I don't believe that Smokey was Christian. At least not every time. Remember the mobisode where Christian went up to Vincent right after the crash of 815 and told him to go wake up "my son" because "he's got work to do"? (also- Not Locke paused for a bit there before he answered Jack's question)
3. Why can't women on the island have babies?!?!? I want an answer to this. (it popped back into my head when Sun woke up in the alt universe and I thought she'd probably lost the baby...)
4.Humanebean- I hope you're right about bringing Claire and Sayid back from the Dark Side. I like the old Claire and Sayid, not the creepy ones. And even though it might not be possible... I really want this show to have a happy ending.
5. Where's Jacob? He was appearing to Hurley a whole bunch a while back and offering helpful advice. Now he's just buggered off?
6. Nikki- I hate Zoe too. Like big time. She just really annoys me. And I did NOT like her pointing that gun at Sawyer. It stressed me out.
7. Gaah! The fence! Thank god they turned it off before Jin and Sun's reunion (I wept, by the way... finally, finally those two are together again!)
I'm sure I have more to say. Just need to go think about it some more...
Also, I was surprised at how quickly Old Crazy earned her gun back. She has to give it up upon entering but by the time they are on the beach she has it back. How long was that boat ride?
The Apple! Why so much focus on the apple offering? I put 10 bucks on Sawyer and Kate being Adam and Eve. 30 bucks if it turns out I'm right.
Well, that ramped things up, and how!
I'm liking Jack, actually liking Jack! It's crazy! And how cute were he and David in their almost matching suits?
While Widmore capturing Sawyer and the others doesn't bode well for them, at least it keeps Widmore seemingly more in the evilcamp, where he belongs.
Speaking of which, how did Team Widmore know where FLocke was when they bombarded him? He smashed the radio...
@Benny: I'm with you: I'm thinking Smokey wasn't White Rabbit Christian; FLocke sure seemed confused for a moment there, like Jack was displaying knowledge or power FLocke didn't know he had.
@Joan: Yeah, Zoe radioed in to turn the fence off before Jin and Sun reunited; I heard it too.
More later...feel better Nik!
I noticed that apple thing too. I think Joan's right. Sawyer and Kate = Adam and Eve.
Oh, and feel better, Nikki!
I'll tune in tomorrow morning to see how you're doing...
29 comments! Pete's sake, don't you people sleep? (she asked at 1:09 in the morning)
I have to go offline tomorrow to get some stuff done that I absolutely MUST do, so here's my 2 cents and I'll catch up with the thousands of comments sure to drop later.
1. Tonight I started a new game. It is called "DIE ZOE DIE". The rules are simple. Simply yell the name at the screen anytime she appears.
2. Please tell me why Locke didn't just step on the walkie instead of almost missing it with a stick? My Dad says it was to justify him carrying that stick around for the entire season.
3. Des totally wigged me out this episode. Like creepy, stalker, shudder. I would have bolted from that elevator.
4. I was trying to figure out who the attorney would be and the only attorney connection I could think of was Michael's ex. I think I would have thrown up a little.
5. The whole Sayid/Desmond thing reminded me of fairy tales (like Snow White and Hansel and Gretel) where the "hunter" is sent out by the "evil" to kill the "innocent" but at the last moment changes their mind, lets the innocent live and brings back false proof. I am certain this is what has happened. Did you see that quirk of a smile on Sayid's face after he tells Locke he's done it and Locke believes him, right before it cuts from the scene? That is the most Sayid-like thing we've seen since he died.
6. I noticed while most of us were saying "David has an aunt!" my Dad's response was, "Aaron has an uncle!"
7. For the first time EVER I liked Jack a WHOLE lot better than Sawyer. Lost has officially turned my world upside down.
8. When Kate yelled, "We have to go back (for Jack)" I focused on the first part and thought about Jack yelling at her as she drove away from the airport.
9. Did you notice that David and Jack were walking almost perfectly in tandem for a little bit. They were so cute.
10. When Jack walked into the OR my sister went, "1, 2, 3, 4..." And I said, if he starts counting I'm shutting it off :)
11. Rewatched it and Zoe (DIE ZOE DIE) does say turn off the fence before Jin and Sun run for each other and if you're paying attention to it there is a hum and buzz that cuts off to show that the fence is now off. But on the first watch my exact reaction was: Did they turn it off?! Did they TURN IT OFF?! DID THEY TURN IT ... oh. good.
12. So, can you be claimed if you haven't made a deal? Or if you haven't died? What if Jack doesn't WANT to be with him? I don't understand?!
All right - time for bed. I'll be back :)
VW: surel - what you use when you start to distrust purel
Loved Kate and Sawyer in matching leather jackets; sometimes they are just way too cute together:)
I was thinking the lawyer Desmond was taking Claire to was gonna be Michael's ex.
Started to really worry that there would have to be choice between saving Sun and saving Locke, a la Shannon's dad and Sara. Guess there were more doctors on duty this time!
Best Dialog:
James channeling Bogie: “Of all the cars (gin joints) in Los Angeles (in all the towns, in all the world), you smash (walk) into mine.”
Sawyer explaining why Claire can’t come with them: “She’s been drinking Locke’s Kool Aid.”
Jack: “It doesn’t feel right leaving the Island; it feels like a part of me is missing.”
Sawyer: “They have pills for that, Doc.”
Hurley references “Star Wars” when he says of Sayid: “Anakin (Skywalker) says you can bring people back from the Dark Side.” Will Sayid be The Last Recruit?
Jack decided he'd be better off on the Island and goes back to discover his “destiny”. (When he leapt from the boat, that seemed so reminiscent of Sawyer’s jump from the helicopter.) Is Jack The Last Recruit?
Kate convinces Claire to join them in leaving the Island. Can they bring her back from the Dark Side? Is Claire The Last Recruit?
Did Sayid really kill Desmond?
Finally! Sun and Jin are reunited! (Did anyone else yell: “Are you sure the sonic fence isn’t on?”)
Attorney Ilana’s office is on the 15th floor.
The boat’s name is “Elizabeth”...
Why did AU-Sun recognize JohnLocke?
I guess Flocke’s stick he was carving told him it wanted to be a walkie-talkie-smasher-stick.
Word Verf: fixotrin : Feeling unglued? Ask your doctor if Fixotrin is right for you!
Wow. Wow. Wow. This was quite the action packed episode and somehow managed to balance both Island and Sideways storylines brilliantly. Outside of the few inconsistencies Nikki pointed out, this is one of the season's stronger episodes. It delivered a few iconic scenes:
1) Evil Locke and Jack's talk.
2) Jack choosing to jump off the boat.
3) Evil Locke saving Jack and saying, "You're with me now." (Chills)
Two weeks till the next episode is pure torture. Damn Sweeps Week!
By the way, I have a theory: The reason why MiB is "trapped" in Locke's body has to do with the formation of the Sideways World. As long as Locke is alive in that world, the MiB will be stuck in Locke's form on the Island.
Why is it that Sawyer knew who Jabba was, but as never heard of Anakin?
Sayid in the AU is totally hosed! Which I guess makes Sawyer a hoser, eh?
When Kate & Sawyer go to swim out to the boat, why don't they walk out onto that rocky point that will put them closer? Swimming fully clothed is hard.
Not to mention swimming fully clothed with guns. I wondered if guns would work if they were wet.
The irony of them all on the Elizabeth is it's Desmond's boat, and he's the one missing member of the crew. (Libby's boat really, or maybe Widmore's. I did a double-take to see Libby on "House" this week.)
So maybe Ben wasn't lying, when he had Sayid pick off Widmore's associates, to protect the O6. Which means it's up to...the three musketeers of Ben, Richard, and Miles to rescue our friends.
SonshineMusic I like your dad's explanation of the purpose of John's stick.
I was actually thinking Aaron has a cousin.
I also thought of Susan when Desmond mentioned "lawyer." Don't know why she always pops into my head.
Another great post Nikki!
I thought the episode was pretty good. Not insanely awesome, but good nonetheless.
I don't know if I can pull too many questions from this episode with it being very plot advancing. Like everyone else here has been saying, I'm not fully agreed on FLocke being Christian EVERY time.
As cheesy as the Sun/Jin reunion was, I got a little teary eyed and let out a big, "...FINALLY!"
@Nikki: Now that you just recently finished The Stand, I was wondering if you were going to write anything about the parallels between it and Lost. Or will you be saving that for your final Finding Lost book? Any outlet is good enough for me!
Also: Was it horrible of me to sit and wait for some sort of spontaneous combustion to happen with Sideways Ilana?
"Smokey smashes the walkie... he definitely seems to have a thing against technology."
I instantly thought about FLocke trying to set the clock on a VCR/DVD player with a flashing "12:00" on the screen. Followed by an angry whack with his giant wooden stick.
It's getting late, and I have to be at the hospital again tomorrow. I get to spend my birthday caring for some newborn babies!!! Cheers to you all!
Feel better Nikki!
WV: pastede - (1) glued together [in ye olde englishe], (2) Dad's trusty horse
As the group comes up out of the water on Hydra island, they are not at the closest point to the boat, either. These people must really like to swim!
VW: paism - a religious tradition centered around the worship of Pa
@ NurseBrian: Happy Birthday!
Nurse Brian
On an earlier post today, my Word Verf was BRIAN!
Happy Birthday, you Bairn Brian-with-a-Brain! Kiss the babies, and we send kisses to you. ;*)
OMG! OMG!!
Nikki, you were spot on! Lost is totally about Love!
Jin and Sun! Yay!
I want to watch this one more time so I will come back tomorrow with more comments! Just had to say WOW!
word verif-lessupd-an oxymoron? How do you have less than one?
Kate's left hand was cuffed to the chair.
The fence thing freaked me out too!! I was so sure someone was about to get dead and was wondering why none of the others were screaming out warnings.
I wrote comments last night and couldn't post 'em. @#$%in' crap Internet connection!
My big question is, What the heck was up with the echo/reverb on some of the characters' voices in certain scenes? I have a vague recollection of it happening before, probably earlier this season, but somehow it fell off my radar. You hear it in Jack's voice as he talks to Kate, after he comes back to camp from his conversations with Smokey and Claire. But it's not just a "claimage" thing, because you also hear it in both Smokey's voice and Zoe's voice when she visits the camp. Then it happens again when Smokey tells Sayid to go take care of Desmond.
I hope you're feeling better, Nikki. Please remember that your whirlwind Media Wednesdays are not more important than your health; only your blog is more important than your health...
VW: kabion — Taxi molecule with a net electric charge.
sawyer would've totally known who anakin is-- he's way too pop culture savvy to not have known that!
great episode, though. loved each and every character interaction-- kate/claire, claire/desmond, desmond/sayid, jack/sawyer, jack/flocke, jack/paralyzed locke, jack/claire, hell, even jack/jack's son.
sure, it was a bridge episode, but it was a great bridge episode. the best of the season so far, right next to the kind of stand-alone 'ab aeterno'.
LOVED that episode. I don't think Desmond is dead. Not for a second. If Sayid did anything to Desmond, it probably would be freeing him (fingers crossed!). I like how their stories in the SW world are starting to intertwine more now. Like, Jack and Claire, Jack and John, Sawyer and Kate (by the way, I loved Kate's line, "Are you hitting on me?!" in the police station) And I think they're starting to notice that there's something going on . . .
I loved the Jin/Sun reunion on Hydra Island. Now they're (sort of) happy in both timelines!
I'll say more once I'm home from school, and I'm actually awake.
I'm assuming Sawyer knew Jabba but not Annakin because he only saw the real Star Wars movies, and not the crappy prequels. I wish I didn't know who Annakin was. :( (Okay, Annakin is mentioned in Star Wars, but it's not the same as having to watch Hayden Christianon.)
Speaking of bad actors, can they just shoot Zoe already? I cringe every time she opens her mouth.
I didn't even notice the sonic barrier, because I was too appalled by what Jin was saying. NEVER promise to be together always. I thought one of Widmore's goons was going to shoot him in the back.
I don't think Locke was a sucker. I think Locke was on Jacob's side (or the Island's side) and that makes him a sucker to MIB.
I agree that Jack found Locke familiar from the Island, not the plane.
I'm assuming the Christian in the cabin was MIB because he was there with Claire.
First of all, I don't believe for a second that Smokey was Jack's dad in the first season. I think Smokey just pulled a fast one on Jack.
Second, I agree with some other people on here who felt the Jin-Sun reunion was a little anti-climactic. After two seasons, they reunite...and that's it. I expected the Giacchino music to swell, grand camera sweeps all around...a scene that would make me reach for my hankey. Didn't happen. Nice reunion, but definitely not worth the two years it took to happen.
Hey all... stomach still in knots so I'll keep this brief.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the fence was on!
Joan: You're right, she did say to power them down, but sometimes that takes a second to do it from a remote location, and with the big ones, you hear this big deflating sound like they're shutting off, but we didn't hear that with these (there was probably some subtle buzz noise that stopped but I didn't hear it).
Rainier: Why is it that Sawyer knew who Jabba was, but as never heard of Anakin?
Because he watched the original trilogy and was smart enough to stay far, far away from the first three chapters. What a smart man. :)
I think when we saw Sayid in the jungle after he met up with Desmond he was looking for a vine to help pull Desmond out. I also don't think I saw him on the beach when Jack came back. Could it be that he is off rescuing Desmond from the well? And as someone else mentioned last week, the well was totally hokey!
Thanks for the heads up Nikki about next week's repeat. I thought Lost was going non-stop until the finale? Hope you are feeling better, you must be running yourself ragged!
I got the feeling this was a bridge episode as well. Nice to see more SW storylines, although many of the storylines didn't really progress much IMO.
It was nice seeing Jack interact with Locke in the operating room and Claire. Jack had the same expression when Claire's mom told Jack at his dad's funeral that Claire was her sister. I love Jack's relationship with David.
I think SW Locke is going to survive and be able to walk! I'm hoping that the SW world is the one they end up in somehow.
I too am perplexed about why Desmond didn't break a million bones in his fall down the well. And from the angle of the camera, it looks like he is only 6 foot from the ground! Is Sayid still redeemable? If he lied to Smokey, it could mean that he still has some kind of conscience buried deep inside.
I know Desmond has a purpose in trying to make the SW's see the other world but I'd think Claire would be smart enough not to fall for a strange man following her up in an elevator and begging her to see his lawyer, its like WTF???
I was surprised SW Sun recognized Locke. I guess it was the shock of being shot. It was crazy putting the fence there, I definitely thought they would do the Patchy thing when they went through, but that would have been a big ripoff!
At this point it is incredibly hard for me to believe Smokey is in any way good. Just like Ben, someone who kills people over and over again "for the greater good" whatever the case may be is not a good person in my eyes.
Where was island Ben this episode???
Feel better Nikki!
Jazzygirl said Sawyer annoyed me this episode, which rarely happens. I get that he wants off, but kick Jack off the boat???
I think Sawyer kicked him off the boat because he saw the waiver of Jack wanting to stay and there was no way he even wanted Jack to have the chance to talk to everyone and also convince them. He is single minded in his mission to get off the island so he has no tolerance for the possibility of staying
I know everyone loved the Burt Reynolds reference but did you all catch when Sawyer call Lapidus "Chesty" on the boat! Haha!
Lisa UFN said Jack is like the "Accidental Recruit." He's not really with Locke
Which just made me think, are we all assuming that the title refers to a recruit for Locke? Could it be a recruit for this Island? Could it be that he is the Last Recruit standing, so to speak?
AH! I laughed SO HARD when I read about your Jin-Sun reunion being ruined by the fence, 'cause I was right there with you. What's wrong with us?
Did anyone else think that early moment with Sawyer, Kate and the apple smacked of heavy-handed "Adam and Eve" foreshadowing?
Rainier said...
When Kate & Sawyer go to swim out to the boat, why don't they walk out onto that rocky point that will put them closer? Swimming fully clothed is hard.
And what about the gun? I am by no means an expert on the subject, but I thought getting guns wet is a bad thing.
Hi Nikki...hoping you feel better. Actually listening to 98.5 right now (at (9:27 ET) and have yet to hear you (I hope you're okay.) My theory about a "second" Christian is it's actually Jacob. Since he can go across water, I think he could have been in the hospital with Jack and also on the boat....
98.5 just announced Nikki will be on at 10:10 ET.....
@Kiki et. al: The guns would shoot, my husband (great white hunter) said that bullets are always in an air tight/sealed casing. The issue becomes later...the guns will need to be cleaned, dried and oiled soon so they do not seize up and rust.
I know the writers wanted us to see that Sun could speak English again, but why right away? How would she know that Jin would be able to understand her? The last she knew, he was JUST BARELY learning a few key phrases from wonderful teachers like Sawyer: "beer", "car", "I'm sorry", "you were right", and the number one phrase: "those pants do not make you look fat." HAHAHAHA.
@ All - I was silent but TOTALLY freaking out during the Jin/Sun Reunion. I was 100% certain at any second their ears were going to start bleeding! I wonder if the writers/editors intended that or if it was disturbing coincidence. Yes, Zoe did order the fence off via walkie mili-seconds before they ran at each other, but how were we to know the chap on the other end of the walkie has lightening fast fence-turning-off reflexes? I'm obviously grateful they didn't fry right there on the spot, but boy was it a scare. If they do go before the end though, I hope it will be in each others' arms.
@ SonshineMusic - I think the Man In Black stabbed the walkie with his stick as an anti-technology statement (as others have mentioned). If he was indeed in the Cabin for many years, then I'm pretty sure it's him who has an aversion to technology. Also, that looked like a fun thing to try and do. He showed everyone he's got great aim :)
Other thoughts:
- Wonder how Sideways Desmond and Illana know each other. Wonder if it's important. I want Illana to be important, dammit! Justify her!
- Least believable thing in the history of LOST - Sawyer not getting Hurley's star wars pop culture reference. The name Anakin is all over the original trilogy, and Sawyer's the king of pop culture on this show! Not that it's actually a problem ;)
Love the episode - big improvement over last week's in terms of justifiable/comprehensible character motivation. I wish they hadn't had Jack decide to ditch Claire quite so fast, but I know they're moving things along at a speedy clip now. Totally bought Sawyer ditching Claire though. All he needs to know is she tried to kill Kate - that's justification enough for him. Very glad Kate stood up for Claire - consistent and strong characterization there. Definitely surprised how soon they gave her back her gun though!
Next week is going to be harsh to get through!
Benny - "He was Christian... but was he?" - Claire mentioned that she knew Smokey was posing as their dad as well. With all the time she spent with him, I would think she would know for sure.
Great recap Nik. I liked the episode, I normally hate these "moving the pieces" but this one wasn't bad. A few thoughts:
-Claire must be wondering "what the hell do I have to do to get some brotherly love around here?" Jack and Co. left her behind and only Smokey was there to love her (what did he look like before Locke died and he took his form?), then she watches as Jack grabs HIS people and leaves her behind to fight Flocke's war, then she follows them to their boat and holds a gun to Claire and forces her to cry and promise to give Aaron back before jumping onboard...only to have Jack have an epiphany and jump off the boat...."Why does my brother hate being around me?" Even in the AU, he gets called into surgery a few minutes after finding out she's his sister. lol
-I think Flocke is lying about taking Christian's form. I have no specific reason for this, I think he's just telling Jack what he needs to hear to get over his sisues and want to leave the Island.
-Flocke is also lying about why he took the form of John Locke. There has to be a better reason for why he NEEDED Locke to die for this all to work. I think Locke is more than just "a sucker" and that's why he's trapped and can't change form anymore.
-I would have liked to see a little more of the Sayid/Desmond exchange. It seemed pretty intense and and I felt kinda cheated that we didn't see how it played out.
-The Sun/Jin reunion was AWESOME!!! I was screaming about the pylons too but got over it once they actually hugged it out and spoke to each other after over 3 years apart. Sawyer's awkward glancing around was priceless (you think Kate though he was thinking of Juilet?)
- "that pilot who looks like he stepped off the set of a Burt Reynolds movie" this had to be one o the funniest lines of the entire series, I couldn't stop laughing.
-I don't know what to make of Sayid, I'm not sure if he's between worlds and is trying to play Smokey or if he's truly a zombie just following orders. I do miss the ass kicking, take no prisoners, shoot first-ask questions later Sayid of old.
-The Illana as the lawyer thing was cool, didn't see that one coming. I thought Des would try to get Claire together with Charlie. He was being overly pushy and I thought Claire would have punched him in the nads and asked him to "bug off".
-I didn't like the way Jack just came to the realization that they shouldn't leave and jumped off the boat, all of a sudden. He asks Hurley if he's OK with him talking to Locke alone, but a few hours later he just up and decides that they are better off without him. And he swam to shore in full clothing and with his backpack on, VERY impressive.
-Sawyer getting all cozy with Claire because they've seen each other twice. She's on the run and he's a cop, seems like it would take a little more than this for him to start getting all suspicious about their encounters. Have you ever run into someone you don't know twice?? Did this make you think something cosmic was going on??
I'll stop here
one more thing about Smokey being Christian. If he indeed was impersonating Christian, does that mean the Cabin is his and not Jacob's? The ashes were there to keep him inside and once the circle of ashes was broken, that's when all this started?
If this is true, does that little portal under Ben's house in New Otherton lead directly to the Cabin?
Hahahaha....that was exactly what my husband was saying when Jin and Sun were reuniting...it totally ruined that moment for me! And when we went back to watch it again he kept making "zzztttt" sounds when they walked through.
I might be off with this, but when MIB was talking to Jack about needing Locke's body, I immediately thought to the scene a few seasons back when Eloise Hawkings more or less talks Jack into taking Lockes body back to the island with him. So is Eloise on MIB's side?
@Rad: "only Smokey was there to love her (what did he look like before Locke died and he took his form?)"
THANK YOU. I've been thinking about this ever since we first saw NotLocke show up this season in Claire's beautiful "abode" as her "friend."
Hope you're feeling better, blogmaster!
To start, I was so glad to have some of my questions answered! The one about Jack's dad appearing on the island was one of my big puzzles! My husband kept going 'yeah!' when the explanation was being told. But, WHY the white tennies? Why the odd choice? Hmmm.
Also, I was with Sawyer 108% when he didn't want Miss Crazygirl on his boat! Would YOU want someone like her going back to raise her child?! HE has a child & he wouldn't want the mama raising HER if she was cuckoo for cocoa puffs!
Did NOT like Ilana as a no-accent, suit-wearin' lawyer! I like her as a tough old gal! So glad it was her and NOT Anna Lucia! Ick! I feel about Anna Lucia the same way Nikki does about Nikki & Paulo!
TOTALLY loved the scene where Sun & Jin found each other again! Did NOT notice a fence! Oh, YES! I would love, love, love to see Zoe get hers! I think she is supposed to rub us all the wrong way!
I do have a question, tho~is Jin being truthful with Sun about the baby? Did you see the look on his face & the hesitation when Sun asked about their precious bundle of joy? Could he be sparing her feelings because she just survived being shot?
I believe that Sayid isn't completely 'feelingless'. He told Zoe to 'run' when he could have shot her. Now, he tells FLocke that he wants his Nadia to be resurrected from the dead. Ick. There has to be SOME good left in him. I honestly don't believe he shot Desmond. Desmond made a good point & I think Sayid spared him. Maybe even helped him out of the well. Who knows with Mr. Expressionless.
How in the world did Jack swim all that way, after jumping out of the boat, with that heavy backpack on him? For starters~you KNOW he is worn out from just going thru all he has gone thru. At least he was a huffin and a puffin when he reached the beach.
As for David's mom. It surely has to be someone with dark hair? Wouldn't it be a little lighter if it his mom were Juliet or Sarah? AND, if it was (gag me) Ana Lucia, he would have some Hispanic in him.
Besides, Jack & Ana Lucia would never fly. They were never even connected in any way on the island.
OR! Remember that Ana Lucia lost her baby because she got shot in the line of duty? Perhaps she & Jack had a fling & in the SW she didn't get shot & the baby was born? Nah. Just grasping at straws & trying to figure things out.
I totally think that Hurley is going to take over Jacob's job. For some reason, the last couple of episodes that Hurley had a major role in made me think that. But, now? Not so sure! I honestly think it is going to be Jack & Sawyer. Ones' first instinct would be Jack=Jacob & Sawyer=no name boy. But, I think it will be the other way around. Jack will be telling Sawyer 'Do you know how badly I want to kill you right now?' in that subtle voice. Sawyer responds 'Yeah, but you can't Metro. You have to find a loophole, Doc & when ya do, this sheriff will be waitin' for ya. So, bring it on!' Juuuust my theory!
I still cannot believe that I didn't see that fence! Guess I was focusing too much on Sun & Jin.
I may be back with a few more opinions & theories after reading Nikki's blog again. She always finds so much in each episode!
Love reading everyone's comments! We have such great fans on this blog. The best fans on the best blog. Period!
I'm still working on the things that matter, but wanted this out of the way. A spinal surgeon will ALWAYS have to deal with a dural sac in order to access the spinal cord. Once vertebral bony elements are lifted out of the way, the dura still surrounds the spinal cord and the dural sac is simply the membranous bag that contains the cerebrospinous fluid, the spinal cord, and the roots of the nerves that pass to the body. The fact that such vital structures as the brain and spinal cord are dependent on such a flimsy protective envelope si why it keeps getting mentioned, I believe: the fragility of our higher cognition and unique mobility and dexterity; the razor's edge of human existence.
I would add, that the dura is itself made of three layers, all of which tickle my schizoid intellectual heritage: the outer dura mater is the "hard mother" (hard is clearly a relativistic term as it's more like a thick plastic sheet); the arachnoid mater or "spidery mother" (vascular and diaphanous fibrous web); and, finally, the pia mater or "delicate mother" which is tissue paper thin and adherent to the spinal cord itself.
Maybe Locke's real problem was a lack of a hard mother to weave him delicate bedtime stories?
@Sonshine Music: he whole Sayid/Desmond thing reminded me of fairy tales (like Snow White and Hansel and Gretel) where the "hunter" is sent out by the "evil" to kill the "innocent"
Oh, good comparison. I like it!
I focused on the first part and thought about Jack yelling at her as she drove away from the airport.
Me too!
@Lee: After two seasons, they reunite...and that's it.
Honestly, as someone who's never been as emotionally invested in their story as others, I'm very glad more wasn't made of their reunion. I was worried they were going to hold off on getting them together again until the very end, making it the emotional climax of the show.
@Lisa (until further notice): How would she know that Jin would be able to understand her?
Presumably, Jack or Hurley told her Jin learned English while living in the 70s at some point when they were hanging out on the beach.
@MilesRules: Claire mentioned that she knew Smokey was posing as their dad as well. With all the time she spent with him, I would think she would know for sure.
I'm willing to buy that the Christian who led Claire away from Aaron and the others in season four was Smokey; I just don't think the White Rabbit, suited Christian was Smokey, but Benny can go into more detail on the differences.
@Anon. So is Eloise on MIB's side?
It seems that way, whether intentionally or not.
Honestly, Eloise is this huge question mark, regarding her motives and true goals, and I'm worried she's going to be one of those things that gets left unanswered. Sorry, I meant one of those things where "the show will speak for itself", which has quickly become Darlton code for "we're not going to answer that and you'll just have to parse it out yourselves."
@TM Lawrence: Maybe Locke's real problem was a lack of a hard mother to weave him delicate bedtime stories?
Haha! I love it.
@JAZZYGIRL - 'One thing that I don't think Nikki mentioned was what Sayid was doing when Locke found him. He was looking up at the trees/vines. I took that to indicate he was going to get a long vine to help Des out of the well.'
- Yes!!! When John questioned whether or not Sayid had completed his homework assignment and Sayid told John to go check I just KNEW that Dez had converted Sayid from the dark side a la Annakin and that the two of them were going to throw John down the well! Of course then I realized that wouldn't bother Smokey one bit! But I do agree with many of you that the old Sayid is coming/has been coming back gradually and that Dez is alive and well and will eventually be the nail in Smokey's coffin!
And did that well look a whole lot deeper when MiB threw the torch into it?
@JS - I agree - how can you prevent someone from talking to you? You don't have to pay attention but they can still be talking. Maybe it's when you listen and heed and respond that the badness creeps in?
@JS again - Yes, I struggle, too, with why Claire is so trusting! I guess she's got nothing to lose by seeing the lawyer but getting in the cab with her kidnapper was bad for her baby at the least! And where has she been living since her release from the hospital? She gave Kate her credit card so hope she has a wad of cash sown into the lining of Shamu.
@NIKKI - 'Desmond to Claire: “It won’t cost you a cent. Trust me... it’ll be my pleasure.” Funny, that was the same pick-up line he used on me...'
- Priceless!!
I think it's strange that Ben wouldn't know John's first name. It's been many moons since I was in school but is it really that formal between teachers?
HaHa!! 'Claire, you look.... great!!'
The old Jack would have jumped up and beat MiB's ass with the news that MiB had been impersonating Jack's father. This Jack just listened and asked why. Ha! Yes, they are all different!
@JOHN HOLTEN - "Given the brief hiatus, I was hoping for a really exciting mini-cliffhanger."
- Yes! I still can't stop wanting that mystery and intrigue either!
I haven't rewatched yet but didn't MiB ask Jack 'Who do YOU think I was?' - like maybe Locke would have agreed with whoever Jack said. Goes along with many of you mentioning MIB/Christian inconsistencies/MiB telling Jack what Jack needs to hear but... @SUSAN - 'ok I'll stop arguing with myself now.' Ha!
@LATELYLOST - Yes! Cheesiest line -by Lapidus - 'Looks like someone got their voice back!' And didn't Sun have a voice? It was just not an English-speaking voice.
@JOANCRAWFORD - 'OH! AND! Did you see the whole Sawyer offering THE apple to Kate?'
- Yes, I loved that! And she didn't bite! It's all gotta mean something!
Broke my heart, too, that the real Locke, sweet and needy, was the throw-away game piece. Oh please let that not be true!
@NURSEBRIAN -' "Smokey smashes the walkie... he definitely seems to have a thing against technology." I instantly thought about FLocke trying to set the clock on a VCR/DVD player with a flashing "12:00" on the screen. Followed by an angry whack with his giant wooden stick.'
- HAHA!! How many times have we all wanted a big ass wooden stick for that purpose? And happy bday!
Yes, I, too, totally thought the sonic fence was gonna get Jin & Sun. Curse you, Lost writers, for that big fake-out!! You GOT us!
(Actually, hadn't Widmore's goons just walked right through the fence line to confront Sawyer's group? Shouldn't we have known it was safe? Will have to re-watch for that.)
I didn't really get a full emotional charge out of the Jin/Sun reunion, though. It was definitely a bit anti-climactic, in my opinion. After three years apart, they SHOULD have both SCREAMED "JIN!!"..."SUN!!", and RAN like crazy towards each other...but the way the scene was filmed was too..ho-hum, if ya ask me.
Still reading...more later.
Sagacious Penguin: Least believable thing in the history of LOST - Sawyer not getting Hurley's star wars pop culture reference. The name Anakin is all over the original trilogy, and Sawyer's the king of pop culture on this show!
It's funny, I've always seen Sawyer on the periphery of pop culture. He seems to get 70s and 80s pop culture (Burt Reynolds, Jabba, etc.) but remember his reaction when Hurley showed him Expose? He hadn't heard of it, even though it was apparently as popular as Baywatch. I think EVERYONE knows who Jabba the Hutt is... my grandparents would have known and they probably never saw the movies. But say "Anakin" to them and they wouldn't know.
So I really didn't find that scene unbelievable. But I'm definitely in the minority, since so many others thought it was!! :)
Rad and everyone who said they think Smokey is lying about being Christian: I agree. The more I think about it, the more I agree. Notice how Jack gave him an open-ended question -- "What forms have you taken?" -- and Smokey turned it around by asking him exactly what form in particular he wondered about, and then Jack said, "My dad," and Smokey said sagely, "Yes." Why not just tell him outright? Because it wasn't him.
I think that'll be one of the big surprises yet to come.
Duke: Hahahaha....that was exactly what my husband was saying when Jin and Sun were reuniting...it totally ruined that moment for me! And when we went back to watch it again he kept making "zzztttt" sounds when they walked through.
LOL!! *I* was the one making the zzzttt noise when we were watching, HAHA!!! ;)
TM Lawrence: I would add, that the dura is itself made of three layers, all of which tickle my schizoid intellectual heritage: the outer dura mater is the "hard mother" (hard is clearly a relativistic term as it's more like a thick plastic sheet); the arachnoid mater or "spidery mother" (vascular and diaphanous fibrous web); and, finally, the pia mater or "delicate mother" which is tissue paper thin and adherent to the spinal cord itself.
Maybe Locke's real problem was a lack of a hard mother to weave him delicate bedtime stories?
Two words: Brill. Yant.
Hey all: Globe chat is beginning now:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts/television/lost/the-lost-club-talks-about-episode-12/article1510636/
Looks like Sayid is gonna recover, since we see him in the previews standing with our heroes, next to the Ajira plane!
@Blam:
Definitely agree that there is an intentional audio anomaly introduced. I also heard it with Desmond in the elevator in LAX timeline as he is talking to Claire. I suggest we are being "triggered" into deeper exploration of auditory perception and speech throughout the episode.
Locke's speech en route to hospital is conserved selflessly. Ben, not Locke, tells the ambulance attendant that his areflexia is pre-existing. Yet John does manage struggled expression of his love: Helen Norwood.
Incidentally, how bad does it suck to be the poor "sucker" who is "lucky" to have had a kidney stolen when you were gutshot and "lucky" to have been paraplegic in a wheelchair when you were mown down by the BMW grim reaper?
The power of logos is again promoted, yet the potency of the MIB and Dogen's admonitions that the cause is lost if the adversary speaks first seems false in Claire's claim that Jack is "claimed" by Smokey. Perhaps for followers, words alone do indeed persuade and suffice. But Jack as a leader and skeptic, should reject the message and alliance, regardless of the words.
Sawyer seems confident that neither air nor surface transport will get them off the island and is heading for the submarine and it's reliance on blind sonar to navigate the escape.
Sun, with expressive aphasia, lodges complaint with Smokey for robbing her of her English as they march across the plain in the ruins of the Tower of Babble. Smokey denies and lies. Words unite and elevate or divide and disrupt the fabric of our social structures: politicians leverage this daily.
Finally, though I could go on, Jack's post-concussive ear-ringing, and the instant restoration of English speech physically within the field of the sonar barrier (Lapidus should talk less) all speak to the paramount importance of auditory perception within this episode.
Placing the auditory clues of this episode in broader context: for all of us homesick, confused, and stumbling in the dark, in other words, Lost, will Jacob's touch, the smell of bacon, the taste of strawberries, and the sound of our loved one's name lead us, wherever it may be, home?
I'm really glad that you heard it too, TM, 'cause the lack of other comment on it here was really freaking me out. I rewound multiple times after hearing it to make sure that it wasn't just a constant soundtrack thing; it wasn't, as it fuzzed and echoed specific characters' dialogue at specific points only. I should note that I was wearing headphones while watching the episode, since I didn't get to watch 'til about 1 a.m. and there were sleeping people elsewhere in the house, so I'm not sure how audible the distortion was in the open air (so to speak) — but it was there.
VW: brinewe — Saltwater sheep.
Jazzygirl said: "One thing that I don't think Nikki mentioned was what Sayid was doing when Locke found him. He was looking up at the trees/vines. I took that to indicate he was going to get a long vine to help Des out of the well."
Hey, good theory, Jazzygirl!! No, that certainly did not occur to me. (But I hope you're right!)
I also expected to hear shots fired, once they got on the boat...especially when Sawyer got up and walked the length of the boat to talk to Jack.
But no, shots were not fired...till they got to the Hydra beach, that is.
LOVED the Burt Reynolds movie comment by Sawyer! Wow, did he hit the nail on the head, or what?? (And, did he call Frank "Chesty"?)
@Nikki: Rad and everyone who said they think Smokey is lying about being Christian
Of course, he is lying. Claire mentioned she could distinguish between Locke/Smokie and "her friend." We've assumed her friend is Christian, but who knows. But one thing that does come out of the conversation with Jack and Locke is that Locke is unaware there is another individual running around the island. Notice in all the scenes with the Losties, MiB is always needling for information--indicative he is not all knowing.
@Sagacious Penguin: Least believable thing in the history of LOST - Sawyer not getting Hurley's star wars pop culture reference. The name Anakin is all over the original trilogy, and Sawyer's the king of pop culture on this show!
An argument could be made Sawyer spent time in prison during the release of this show. He remembers 70s and 80s pop culture because he was a) a small boy, and b) pulling his early cons. But during the 90s he would have been in prison. Life and pop culture would have gone on hiatus.
At this point I am getting a little tired of all the back references to earlier episodes. Does it really advance the story by constant parallels to earlier scenes, or can we live with less of them? In some ways they are distracting from the drama of the action. For instance, Jack's jumping off the Elizabeth was a parallel to Sawyer jumping from the helicopter, but with less impact. Even Locke's remark to Jack, when he got ashore, was a repeat of Juliet's to Sawyer. But the whole scene didn't carry the weight as when it was first played out.
The drama of the story arises through seeing the survivors as pawns, and what else are they as they are bounced back and forth between two players. I almost expected Widmore's order to Zoe was to shoot the Losties on the beach. Now that Widmore has them, excluding Jack, he has effecively checked MiB (not check-mated). And given the current situation, it makes me think maybe Richard's plan isn't that outrageous. Maybe Richard et al. will carry out their plan and rescue the Losties from Widmore. But with all the parallels controlling the direction of the narrative, maybe we'll have a beach scene where Widmore invites Kate to lunch. Or we'll see Sawyer breaking rocks to get the Ajira plane free. We might even see them put into the cages, again. Oh silly Widmore, don't you know people can climb out the top?
I don't expect it, but it would be a huge shock if Sayid had shot Desmond. This scene is so reminiscent of Ben (aka Henry Gale) in the Swan lock-up. Ben manipulated Locke, and I expect Desmond to have convinced Sayid with certain doubts. Ben convinced Locke because of the interpersonal dynamics between Locke and Jack; Des can convince Sayid because of the interpersonal dynamics between Locke/MiB and Sayid. But, you know, Desmond's argument to Sayid really isn't that good. Des is a man of honour, one who has abandoned love for regaining honour. On the other hand, Nadia already knows what Sayid is, considering he threatened to torture her, and she knows he is a torturer for the elite Guard. It's not like adding another penny to the pound will make any real difference to Nadia.
Going back to last episode, Michael telling Hurley not to blow up the plane. That would effectively leave MiB an escape, which would likely leave all the other ghosts on the island an escape. I'm not so sure the whispers are as trustworthy as we might have imagined by Michael. Afterall, Ben did say to Rousseau that if she ever hears whispers she should run int he opposite direction. If that's the case, has Hurley been misled? Are they all moving in the wrong direction, and Jack is going in the right direction? interesting that Jack and Locke have reversed positions--Jack wanted to escape the island, while Locke wanted to remain; now, Jack wants to remain (and probably keep everyone else there), and Locke/MiB wants to esacape.
And if the orignal Locke really was a sucker, believeing in destiny, being manipulated by a few tricks of the island (making him able to walk), then what about Jack? Has Jack been suckered by the island's tricks? In the LA X world, Jack is a more whole person, having given up on the hold his father had on him, and also forgiving his father. We are all hoping Jack can make Locke walk again in LA X, but if that world is reality, then that wouldn't be possible. (But seeing that Sun's baby is okay after being shot, suggets LA X is more wish fullfilment than reality). So, is Jack a sucker, now, as Locke was? And if he is, then so is Hurley. Somehow they have to break the spell of the island.
So much great dialogue, both dramatic and comedic, as everyone has mentioned...
I got a laugh in literally the opening seconds, during "Previously on Lost": The first time around, I didn't hear or notice how (there's no better word for it) sensual Det. Jim Ford's "Son of a bitch" was in reaction to seeing de-hooded Kate Austen. Worth a listen!
My take on Smokey as Christian or not, which leans towards the not, was reinforced the more I thought about it. Aside from natural suspicion that Smokey is playing Jack, let's recall that Claire considered her friend and her father separate entities. Then, beyond Smokey turning the question of who else he's been around to Jack to elicit Jack's visions of Christian (and then concur), Claire says to Jack, "Did he tell you he was the one pretending to be our father?" While this sounds at first like the sharing of common knowledge in interrogative form ("Did you hear that Lost will be a rerun next week?"), it might actually have been her genuinely probing him, either trying to find out what Smokey said so that she knows what story to play along with or confirming her suspicion of what Smokey said deceitfully as she questions whether she's right to trust him after all.
On my first viewing of the scene, I did assume that Smokey was telling the truth about being Christian in the instances that Jack explicitly questioned, although not necessarily about his motives. Doubt sunk in as I was commending Jack's reservation in not asking Smokey if he'd also appeared as Christian off the Island, which I think Jack sensed would've really surprised Smokey and so wasn't information that Jack wanted to give away; mulling that over, and the way the different line readings of Claire's dialogue referenced above danced around my brain, got me skeptical of Christian being Smokey at all, which seems to be the general feeling here. Even if Smokey had been Christian sometimes, however, the seeming flat-out revelation would only be the latest in a string of partial answers we've gotten over the past few episodes that are more frustrating in their incompleteness the more one thinks about them; the fact that Smokey might have been lying to Jack entirely turns a potential partial answer into an bigger question than before, since most of us had figured that, yes, Smokey did at least account for some of the Christian sightings. In a word: Frak!
@Sonshine music. I just want to make sure I have the rules to the game right. Is it okay to also shout "Kill her" whenever Zoe is on the screen?
So did Desmond hit Locke with the car to get him to Jack's operating table?
Desmond is not dead.
Sawyer was a jerk but you can kind of understand where it is coming from - he does blame Jack for Juliet's death and Claire did try and kill Kate. He is pretty protective. A little less sexy this episode, not knowing who Anakin is, come on!
I can't wait to see how they reunite Claire and Charlie in AU! And bring on Juliet.
I can't believe we have to wait two weeks!!!!
Hurley: "You can always bring people back from the dark side. I mean, Anakin..."
Sawyer: "Who the hell's Anakin?"
Hurley's face: "What do you mean, 'Who the hell's Anakin?'"
Me: "Sawyer, you lucky, lucky man."
Did it make anyone else nervous when Jin was all "We will NEVER be apart again". Can you say "jinx"????
Just realized Malkin told Claire she was to raise her child, and not give him up to others. And in LA X Malkin's hopes for Claire will be realized. Claire came over to LA expecting to be alone, her family in Australia. Now she suddenly discovers she has family in the U.S., and well off ones at that. If Christian left Claire any money, then she'll be able to raise Aaron herself. This sounds so much like a Deus ex machina device, and really like something Dickens would put to paper.
Just had to go to bed last night so am only now getting to read Nikki's blog and respond myself.
I loved this episode. I loved how it brought so many elements (and characters) together - providing some answers and opening up possibilities.
My highlights include:
a) Sun recognizing Locke in the Sideways world - and the fear that she is showing
b) Claire telling Jack that he is under FLocke's control. However, Jack is not sure he is. Sawyer isn't; Kate isn't amongst others (not with a capital O!) - I truly believe Jack is not also.
c) Kate nailing Sawyer re. the trip to Australia. haha! Loved the "hitting on me" part. Had to laugh there.
d) Claire: "You're right. It's a boy." Desmond: "I have a nose for these things." :)
e) Ilana to Claire - "We've been looking for you." Until the reveal about reading Christian's will, I was a little afraid for Claire. I am wondering if Christian has provided for Claire - which would allow for her to keep Aaron in the Sideways world. That would be awesome!
e) Noooo, Sayid. Don't kill Desmond! I am sure that he did not. I think he has been already making a move away from his 'zombified' state since he first laid eyes on Desmond. There was just something about that first contact that was not just the recognition factor. Desmond's question to Sayid has moved him even further away. I am sure Sayid lied to FLocke's face - and Flocke could not tell for sure.
f) Was that Desmond's boat? I know it had a different name but I am sure it was the same sloop...especially in the shot when you see it moored off the shore of Hydra Island as our little group makes it there.
g) Glad that Kate talked to Claire. In her hesitation over what was being said, I am sure that some part of Claire returned at that point.
h) Claire: "He finds out we're gone... he's gonna be mad." Understatement. I am sure more like the hurricane from HELL might be more appropriate. :)
i) Jack: "The island's not done with us yet." That he understands that there is something missing from himself, both when he and the rest of the six left the Island and even now, really sets it up (if it happens) for him to take Jacob's place.
J: Sun and Jin - together... :) At last...!
@JS said...
"Jin & sun – I expected a bigger moment ... Sawyer looks uncomfortable – lovey dovey jibber jabber."
Of course, he does! He only lost Juliet a short while ago, is hurting like crazy and desperately wants to be away from where all this happened!! It is understandable that he needs to get off the Island and no one is going to stop him. If he gets the rest off as well (that is the Lafleur part of him coming out there), then BONUS.
@JenniferS said...
"Last week it looked like Des was falling to at least FDW level. How come the well's so shallow?"
A small but understandable error in production. If the well was as deep as it appeared to be, they would have been unable to get the shots needed for the scene when Sayid arrives to kill Desmond.
Okay, must go back to work - will read more comments later. :)
@Nikki: But I'm definitely in the minority, since so many others thought it was!!
Nah, I'm with you Nikki; it made perfect sense to me that Sawyer would know Jabba but not Anakin.
@Blam: the seeming flat-out revelation would only be the latest in a string of partial answers we've gotten over the past few episodes that are more frustrating in their incompleteness the more one thinks about them; the fact that Smokey might have been lying to Jack entirely turns a potential partial answer into an bigger question than before, since most of us had figured that, yes, Smokey did at least account for some of the Christian sightings. In a word: Frak!
Oy, agreed on all counts.
Me: "Sawyer, you lucky, lucky man."
Aw, all the prequel hate makes this Star Wars fan sad...
Nikki: Sun recognizes Smokey ... Was the gunshot a jolt? If it was, why didn’t she see the life she had with Jin in the other world, too?
I think that, yes, the gunshot was a jolt. And her piercing of the veil might only have been temporary or incomplete. But we also have no real indication that it wasn't; her primary focus on waking up was whether the baby was all right, and beyond that she was probably just happy to have Jin there given either the trauma of the restaurant shooting or maybe their separation in the original timeline or both, so for all we know the next thing on her mind is to tell Jin what she's realized about their reality.
VW: failfle — A failed waffle.
@Nikki - "My dad," and Smokey said sagely, "Yes." Why not just tell him outright? Because it wasn't him.
Then again, doesn't smokey have to appear as Loud Ticking Smoke Monster or as a person? How would MiB know that Christian appeared for Jack to lead him to water? Unless a Quiet Hiding Smoke Monster was watching and giggling in the bushes. I kinda like that more, actually.
@LoyallyLOST: "Jack will be telling Sawyer 'Do you know how badly I want to kill you right now?' in that subtle voice. Sawyer responds 'Yeah, but you can't Metro. You have to find a loophole, Doc & when ya do, this sheriff will be waitin' for ya. So, bring it on!"
LOVE THIS...HAHAHAHAHA :)
VW: piterbo; How Ricardo is feeling right now about Hurley blowing up the Black Rock.
@Duke: "Did it make anyone else nervous when Jin was all "We will NEVER be apart again". Can you say "jinx"????
I'm with you here...Double Jinx!!!
Did anyone else find Beach-Explosion Flying Jack awesome enough to deserve a rewind?
I was totally tensed up waiting for Jin and Sun to get zapped and wondering why nobody was stopping them. Yes, I heard Zoe call for the fence to be turned off, but didn't feel any indication that it had been. The reunion was a perhaps uncharacteristically sappy, and I can see why some thought it was anticlimactic, but I preferred that feeling to my fear that it would be climactic — that is, not come until the finale, and be immediately tragic, ironic, or full of undeserved import (which isn't to say that I'm not happy to see the lovebirds reunited, just that their separation was drawn out so long and was so full of almost laughable near misses or obstacles). Why did they speak English, though, other than to show us that Sun could speak it again and to show her that Jin can now speak it too? Not only would they naturally speak their native language with one another out of instinct, but the moment and the words felt intimate enough that I suspect the characters would've preferred to keep them relatively private.
And did anyone else feel like Bonus Jonas Shephard wandering off after that sweet moment with his dad had an undercurrent of "uh-oh"?
VW: datine — Da ting on da trident.
I've been thinking about who David's Mom could be and the idea of constants and who is who's touchstone that will bring back memories to the AU people of the island.
I'm going to stray from the idea of Juliette & Jack being David's parents only because wouldn't Juliette and Jack together cause visions of the orignal timeline already.
I think Sawyer's would be Juliette -- more than Jack. Maybe they will end up meeting at the hospital maybe around Claire giving birth? Or maybe when Swayer the cop stops to get a cup of coffee???
And Kate's would be Aaron -- once Claire gives birth they may end up meeting at the hospital. Those handcuffs can cause some nasty injuries.
And maybe Kate is Jack's touchstone to the original timeline. Same reason as above to be in the hospital.
It seems that in the AU all of our Losties are starting to "cluster".
If we're looking for parallels with earlier epsiodes, I think we can also see Desmond in the well as parallel to when ana Lucia kept Nathan in her pit. Of course, that didn't work out too well for him after Goodwin killed him, when he was trying to help Nathan out of the pit. If parallels are really important, then that doesn't do well for Desmond. Besdies, what is Desmond's role form now on until the end? Resident Zen master? We may be shocked to find him lying out in the open like Goodwin was. Will the writers turn on our expectations?
Kate said to Sawyer shi is not a murderer. Oh, if that is true, then Kate's mum was the murderer of Wayne or someone.
Nikki: Did you get a load of the look on David’s face?
Uh, not really, and I'm glad.
"She's your aunt, David."
"Only my half-aunt. And she's a total PLILF!"
"PLILF?"
"Pregnant Lady I'd..."
"David!!!"
Ick.
VW: PediCA — A Los Angeles chain of foot-care spas.
I agree about the jinx with Jin and Sun....They're on an island where anything and everything happens all the time...Not a smart promise to make.....
Nikki: I wish Zoe had walked through the fence first just so we knew they were off.
Or not? 8^)
Nikki: What is the significance of the Western Pacific Adoption Agency? Is Paik running it??
I hadn't thought about that, but since everything is secretly owned by Paik, Widmore, or the Hanso Foundation...
Nikki: WHO IS DAVID’S MOM?! Possibles that are left: Sarah again. Juliet. Kate’s twin sister she never knew about (Skaters and Jaters are both happy in the end!). Cassidy. Ana Lucia.
Zoe. Nikki. Naomi. Locke's chat-line Helen. Michael's ex. A transgendered Goodwin.
VW: coment — Thoughts left on Bloger.
"LA X" timeline Jin is "Jin X"!
Benny: There is still a Christian body somewhere on the island,
So... Onward, Christian soldiers.
JS: Is letting him talk to you the way you get recruited? Is that what Dogen/MiB may have been referring to about letting “him” talk first?
Apparently. It might've been nice to have that confirmed, and maybe even find out how that worked, before we saw the possible unraveling of the claimage in Claire and Sayid this episode, though. Seriously, folks, this is awfully late in the game to kinda-sorta bring explanations into focus while muddying the waters at the same time.
Joan: I could very well be imaging this though.
You're imagining all of this, sweetie.
Erin, when Jin said, "We're ALL going to be okay"...I thought: the three of us...you, me, and baby makes 3.
Teebore said: "Speaking of which, how did Team Widmore know where FLocke was when they bombarded him? He smashed the radio..." >>>Well, maybe they're spying on him with the submarine/periscope.
Speaking of MIB/Locke smashing that radio...I totally thought, "Well, looks like he found a use for that stick!"
@Blam: Seriously, folks, this is awfully late in the game to kinda-sorta bring explanations into focus while muddying the waters at the same time.
Blam, it's like you're reading my mind today!
Seriously: answer a question, don't answer a question, whatever. But enough with this half-answering, "maybe that's the answer, but what about..." business.
With so many Star Wars references on the show, how awesome would it have been for Flocke to say:
"Jack (deep breath)(deep breath), I am your Father..."
Then Jack gets all: "No, no, that's impossible...NNNOOOOOOO"
Flock: "Jack, you can destroy Jacob, he has forseen this. It is YOUR DESTINY...."
Then an army of Ewoks would rain from the heavens and help obliterate the evil Smokey...
@Sonshine Music...Tonight I started a new game. It is called "DIE ZOE DIE". The rules are simple. Simply yell the name at the screen anytime she appears.
I like this idea! And, sooner or later, it's bound to come true!
Also @ Sonshine Music: I noticed while most of us were saying "David has an aunt!" my Dad's response was, "Aaron has an uncle!
Regarding David's expression when hearing Dad has a sister, I pictured him thinking, "Wow, so grandpa was a ladies man!"
OMG - have you guys SEEN this yet?? I'm sure I'm late to the party on this one but just on the off-chance that you folks have not seen the promo for the new LOST spinoff, Ford & Straume ... you GOTTA SEE THIS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okzueBAxUaQ&feature=player_embedded
Zari said: "Finally! Sun and Jin are reunited! (Did anyone else yell: “Are you sure the sonic fence isn’t on?”)"
Obviously, at this point, Zari had not yet read any of the comments! lol
Teebore: Exactly.
SM: 1. Tonight I started a new game. It is called "DIE ZOE DIE". The rules are simple. Simply yell the name at the screen anytime she appears.
Ha! I think Joan plays this while watching Sesame Street.
SM: 2. Please tell me why Locke didn't just step on the walkie instead of almost missing it with a stick?
I wish I could. That was a pathetic visual.
SM: 12. So, can you be claimed if you haven't made a deal? Or if you haven't died? What if Jack doesn't WANT to be with him? I don't understand?!
Okay... I happened to be reading up on dual citizenship earlier today, and it turns out that even if you renounce past citizenship when taking a boilerplate oath of naturalization (which these days is often considered non-binding) or through active intentional declaration your country of birth and/or another country by whose laws you might be considered a citizen due to ancestry may hold claim to you as a citizen. There may be rules of the Island, of some agreement between Jacob and Esau, or of some inherent ability of Esau/Smokey's, that supersede mere mortals' intentions. "Hey, it ain't my fault I punched you. I said I'd punch you if you kept blinking. Maybe not very loud, but I said it."
VW: eplatio — Plato's electronic patio?
Great comments. Something new just occurred to me. I did think of this last night but forgot to post it. In the ambulance when Locke says "Helen Norwood...I was going to marry her..." my first thought was that he was jolted out of AU and knew she (a) died or (b) was going to die soon. I thought Ben was going to say "why are you saying GOING to marry her" but instead he said "don't worry, you still will" or something like that. Anyway, my point is that I thought it was an odd thing for him to say. More than just chaulking it up to being in shock from the accident.
I have to re-watch to listen for those audio subtleties you guys are mentioning.
Hope you'e feeling better, Nik!
Fred: Jack's jumping off the Elizabeth was a parallel to Sawyer jumping from the helicopter, but with less impact.
He was much closer to the water. 8^)
Teebore: I was worried they were going to hold off on getting them together again until the very end, making it the emotional climax of the show.
We really are on the same mental wavelength today, Mr. T... mostly.
Teebore: Nah, I'm with you Nikki; it made perfect sense to me that Sawyer would know Jabba but not Anakin.
Ditto.
Teebore: all the prequel hate makes this Star Wars fan sad
And this is where we part ways, dude; the only truly worthwhile part of the prequel films, beyond some admittedly cool lightsaber battles, was the very end of the last one. Get Mrs. Teebore to hold you like she did by the lake on Naboo.
loved Sideways Jack's (I think I may open a bar called that)reaction to Claire being his sister. It was pretty much identical to when he found out in the original timeline.
One question: With only 4 episodes left are we going to have time to tie up the flash sideways and get a Widmore / Eloise flashback?
@humanbean. Thank you for the link to "Ford and Straume." AWESOME and WISHFUL THINKING!!!
@The Shout With only 4 episodes left are we going to have time to tie up the flash sideways and get a Widmore / Eloise flashback?
Probably not. *sigh*.
Man, I am such a Debbie Downer today...
@Blam Get Mrs. Teebore to hold you like she did by the lake on Naboo.
Ha!
the only truly worthwhile part of the prequel films, beyond some admittedly cool lightsaber battles, was the very end of the last one.
I mean, I can't really ARGUE with you...
Other than to add to that list Ewan MacGregor (doing a lot with very little and turning in a fine Obi Wan performance), and the music, which was awesome (and seriously, if Episode II was silent except for the music, that love story would have been a lot more believable, and less painful). But then, I'm also a film score nut, so...
No, the prequel hate just makes me sad because they SHOULD have been so awesome that no one could hate them, and that's just not true...
Hmm...how many more ellipses can I use in this comment...?
Rad said (of Jack): "And he swam to shore in full clothing and with his backpack on, VERY impressive."
And, I also noticed he was wearing leather hiking-type shoes...how can somebody swim in those?? They must have weighed a TON, when he struggled to stand up to face Locke on the beach!
Here's one of my hopes for "THE END": Same voice who keeps saying: "The answers are coming." "The finale' of LOST is being brought to you with limited commercial interruptions by____________" Don't care who sponsors it (Just not "V").
If there are going to be a lot of commercials, am I wrong to hope for a two-and-a-half hour finale? I want a m
"John Locke was not a believer, Jack. He was a sucker."
This episode really had a "finale" feel to it, with many crucial events happening, and the pace of the storytelling accelerating. This was the episode that finally made me think, "This is the end." (sigh)
This episode focuses on a gauntlet that Jack must run through. As Claire said, the Monster is doing his best to convince Jack to join him in leaving the Island. Jack must confront his views of Locke, his role as a leader, and his relationship with the other characters he's led through so much turmoil. It is as if the Monster is glad that Claire is following them so that she may be a type of "sympathy card" to convince Jack more easily.
ANSWER: The Monster took the form of Christian in past seasons in an attempt to assist Jack in leaving the Island. He didn't count on Locke not wanting to leave.
"Who the hell is Anakin?" = awesome, and actually an important note. Sayid seems to be fully "evil" now, but can he redeem himself? He and Claire are the only characters who seem to be true "slaves" of the Monster, with Sawyer and others only believing in the Monster's logic, not his mission. Sawyer even refers to Sayid as a "zombie".
Sawyer mentions to Kate how weird it is that they keep running into each other. As we know, "Lost" plays with the idea of a person's six degrees, and these happen-chance meetings occurred in the past seasons as well, yet in this new universe, the characters are noticing these meetings.
The Monster's plan of having two groups surround Widmore's camp is very similar to Jack's strategy in season 2 to rescue Walt from the Others. Both have one main group and a smaller group circling around in a boat.
Sawyer's reference to the horrible Koolaid poison massacre is an interesting way of looking at the Monster's camp. It's actually a pretty accurate way as well.
It's fitting that Kate is the person who convinces Claire to join them. Even though Jack is her brother, Claire and Kate have the stronger friendship. Kate helped deliver Aaron, helped Claire discover the Staff Station, and always cared for Claire (especially by caring for Aaron).
It was nice to see The Elizabeth again, and that it remained stationed near the Island for all those years.
The Monster seems to suspect Sayid's loyalty when Sayid says that he needed a moment alone after "shooting" Desmond. The zombie Sayid wouldn't need a moment, and the Monster knows this. His candidates are slowly losing loyalty to him.
Jack's conversation with Sawyer on the boat is very crucial to Jack's character. He is now the "new" John Locke, fully believing in fate and in the Island's purpose. Jack jumps off the boat to allow the others to leave, just as Sawyer jumped off the helicopter the first time they left. Kate once again says that they must get Jack back (a la season 3). Sawyer is happy that Jack is finally able to take orders, but he is now the one who finds himself needing to control everything.
Jack is going to operate on Locke, and perhaps he'll take a look at Sun as well, further uniting them. Locke's positioning of his head in between the two pads is just how Ben's was positioned when Jack performed the surgery on him.
Finally, we have the reunion of Jin and Sun. Awww...it was very nice how Sun's voice was restored at the sight of Jin alive.
I don't think Widmore is double-crossing Sawyer, but only taking precautions. He expected Sawyer to betray him and lead the Monster to Hydra Island, so he's just doing what he thinks is best.
Jack's face at the Monster finding him on the beach was great. It was just what I thought, "Oh...crap."
The firing of the mortars at the Monster was a great scene. Again, this is the end, and this episode really set the stage for the final quarter of the season. Jack is now stuck with the Monster. Either him, or face mortars, so things don't look too good for our spinal surgeon.
What I expect: The stage is set, and the battle has begun between Widmore's camp and the Monster.
I think Sayid helped Desmond out of the well, and Desmond will make his way back to Widmore. Perhaps he will encounter Jack when the Monster isn't near, and Jack will join him. Ben, Richard, and Miles are still moving towards Hyrda Island, and I think Desmond will definitely find them. After all, we need Desmond to encounter Ben, since the last time they met was when Ben attempted to kill Penny.
The alternate universe didn't supply too much this week, just the expected reunion of Jack and Locke (and Claire). Everyone has now met at least one other person from the flight, and it is now up to Desmond (the new Jacob, in a way) to get them...somewhere. The Island is underwater, so perhaps they will use a large electromagnetic machine (similar to Widmore's in our reality) to combine the two realities. And if that happens...well, I don't think two universes colliding would be good.
Boom. L O S T.
@Donna S: Obviously, at this point, Zari had not yet read any of the comments! lol
You’re right – I hadn’t or I wouldn’t have missed your comment at #7: Glad to know I wasn't the only one screaming, "The fence!!" at the tv. ;)
I should have been honest and prefaced my comments as others do and admitted that I hadn’t read all (or any) of the comments. I apologize for stealing your idea. It won’t happen again.
Fred said: "We might even see them put into the cages, again."
Actually, I recall seeing Kate's face behind bars, in the previews for next episode. And it looked like it was an "on-island" scene-flash, NOT in the alt-world.
Blam, calling David "Bonus Jonas Shephard"
Hahaha! Good one!
Teebore....I enjoyed the Star Wars prequels. Maybe because my son at 8 years old is a huge fan and I am seeing them through his eyes. I admit they do have 1) Bad acting - with a few exceptions (Ewan McGregor, of course), 2) bad writing (the most stilted love scenes ever), 3) annoying characters (hello Jar Jar)but on the upside cool effects, a kick ass Yoda and I liked the story of how Anakin turned to the darkside, it worked for me. Could it have been so, so much better? Without a doubt. But I didn't hate it.
Ok...back to LOST :)
Nikki, you said that maybe in the SW Jacob didn't bring Ilana to Eastern Europe to train her - interesting thought, i always supposed that, being named Ilana and as we saw her in some poorly equiped hospital (her face covered in bandages so we can't guess her age), she came from Eastern Europe - and was recruited in Yugoslavia at war.
I rather think that in the SW, Ilana managed to leave her country at war for the States, become a successfull attorney and be friends with DESMOND!!!
Man, how lucky do they get if they don't meet Jacob!
A thought just occurred to me...at the lawyer's office, Jack and David were there, but...where was Jack's MOM? Ya know, Christian's WIFE...the WIDOW?? Shouldn't she, of all people, be there for the reading of the WILL?
Unless maybe...she was just running late. Okay, typical woman behavior. That's the ticket!
Hope you're feeling better Nikki! And here I am back with my tl;dr thoughts.
I'm digging these last few episodes. Especially since Desmond's, this is looking more like I figured S6 should have been. It's still not perfect, and I think that sometimes the writing has cheesy slips that are sorta un-Lost (the Sun/Jin reunion was cute, but I would have done without the shots of the other characters beaming and making knowing remarks), and I'm not sure I like the romantic slant of most character's epiphanies (seriously, was Hurley's relationship with Libby so significant for both of them?) but I'm invested in this. I loved that The last recruit had no centricity (albeit being sort of Jack slanted), because I've been missing the cast as an ensemble so much! Even if eventually they split up again.
Random thoughts:
- Kate, are you going to make me like you again? Seriously, my appreciation of that girl sky rockets when she interacts with Claire, or Sun, or... women in general. The irony is, Evangeline Lilly seems to prefer Kate to be this way as well, so why didn't the writers take note earlier, WHYYY
- Desmond, the benevolent stalkerish manipulator! Seriously, why all these candidates when he's obviously already in full Jacob mode.
- right now, I'm craving for Jack to connect with Claire, in one of the two realities at least. I'm liking his new self, but I wish he disobeyed Sawyer on the Claire thing, because obviously she felt betrayed and left out once again when they went to the ship without her. Yeah, I have this One Big Happy Shephard Family fantasy, now judge me :P
- sideways Ben being so concerned about Locke=awesome. Although that doesn't bode well for Desmond I guess? And is Widmore just a rich good guy in this universe?
- was Fake Locke lying when he told Jack that he impersonated Christian in White Rabbit? What makes me think is the long stare he gives him before answering, and the fact that Christian's body disappeared with no apparent reason - unlike Locke's. I also liked Jack's rather offended look when FLocke made those disparaging remarks about original Locke. I always felt that, no matter their disagreements, Jack and Locke ultimately respected each other a lot, and now that Jack has understood where Locke was coming from with his destiny talk, he's obviously taking it personally.
- since everybody seems to hook up with everybody in the sideways, it would only make sense if Sideways Ilana ended up with Sideways Arzt. *rimshot*
Sigh. What am I going to do when this show is over?
@Rad, I wonder who Fake Locke/Nemesis/MiB looked like to Claire when Locke was still alive and he dropped the Christian pretense. For clarity's sake, I hope that they stick to the original MiB if they're going to show us - no need to complicate that particular detail any further.
@ Nikki - You may very well be right about Sawyer's pop culture references being dated. I'd never thought of it like that before, but you don't hear many 90s references from him. That said, I guess I'd just hoped he was as big a fan of the original Star Wars Trilogy as Little House... but evidently not ;)
@ All - I really wanna know why Sideways Desmond and Illana are on hug-level friendship terms!
ALso, just got my blog up! Here's an excerpt for discussion:
The Man In Black and His Agenda:
So what exactly ARE the MIB's intentions toward those Candidates!? He wanted them all together, and he's got them. Rather than just leave for the Ajira plane immediately, he waits for Widmore to make the next move and threaten him. If he's confident his group can infiltrate Hydra Island and get to the runway intact, then I wonder what he was waiting for. If he doubts all the Candidates could survive a shoot-out with Widmore's scientists, then maybe he just wanted to give them motivation to blitz the Hydra and get themselves killed. It all boils down to whether he actually wants them gone, or dead. Maybe either is equally satisfactory to his intentions to leave, and his primary concern is keeping them all together so he can guarantee they share the same fate. Which means even after Sawyer's group has abandoned him for Widmore, the MIB values Jack's life more than anyone's since Jack is the only person who might be able to convince the others to do what the MIB needs them to do (whether wittingly or not). As we're running out of episodes fast, I doubt the MIB's intentions toward the Candidates will remain a mystery for very long.
If you'd like to read the full analysis, visit http://sagaciouspenguin.blogspot.com/
Cheers!
I stole your vid and posted it on Facebook, Humanebean.
In exchange, for all Facebookers, the latest installment of Untangling Lost by Pierre Chang.
Untangling Lost
@Donna S. "A thought just occurred to me...at the lawyer's office, Jack and David were there, but...where was Jack's MOM? Ya know, Christian's WIFE...the WIDOW?? Shouldn't she, of all people, be there for the reading of the WILL?"
She is a) on a bender and unfit to be seen in public, or b) suffering from the side effects of her multiple facelift procedures.
Guys, I'm really enjoying the discussions going on here! Some great comments, perhaps the best of this season. The realisation that there won't be a new ep for two weeks hit Batkitty and I hard. As per usual, at the end of the episode, Batkitty turned to me and said 'Get more. Now!' When I told her we wouldn't get another for two weeks, her reply was filthy, but in character for her. :)
Some observations:
@Joan: ...then I again I hate a hard sell.
As do I. There's nothing worse than a fake-smiling, overly enthusiastic salesperson. Makes me wanna not buy just out of spite. :)
@Teebore: I'm liking Jack, actually liking Jack!
Me too! But I have to say that I've always liked Jack, even in his Jears-soaked moments. I was irrationally happy for him when Jack Jr wished him good luck before heading into surgery. I sometimes have to remind myself that these aren't real people, they're just astoundingly great actors that make me think they are.
While Widmore capturing Sawyer and the others doesn't bode well for them, at least it keeps Widmore seemingly more in the evilcamp, where he belongs.
I'm thinking that Widmore isn't evil, just ruthless. Perhaps Widmore knows that in order for Smokey to leave the Island he needs ALL the candidates, and needs them ALIVE. What better way to foil Smokey's plans than to kill the people he needs to help him escape? That is, if his escape plan does in fact hinge on all remaining candidates being alive. Widmore, if nothing else, seems to be single-minded enough to stop at nothing to prevent Smokey from leaving, and from that last glimpse of Sawyer et al, I'm thinking it includes murdering our favourite Losties.
I have other thoughts, mostly about Christian that'll have to go in another post.
@Various Re: The 'Christians'
Please, forgive me in advance, but I think I'm about to be very long-winded (and very possibly slightly off topic) here, as the discussions going on about the two Christains have got me thinking about previous events. I'm firmly in the 'there must be TWO Christians' camp. Obviously the Christian that appeared to Jack back in the world in the hospital wasn't Smokey. And I accept that Flocke asking Jack to ask him what he wants to know was Flocke saying 'Tell me what you want to hear'. But that doesn't mean that Smokey absolutely wasn't the Christian that Hurley saw in the cabin, that Locke saw in the cabin and the Frozen Donkey Wheel Wampa Cavern, and who lured Claire away. The fact that Flocke asks Jack to state specifically what he wants to know suggests he's just drawing out information in order to answer 'correctly', and that suggests that the Christian that Jack chased way back in Season 1 was 'real' Christian. I just don't think many of the other appearences of Christian (apart from the hospital one) were the 'real' him. Flocke, to me, anyway, seems to use a mixture of lies, half-truths and absolute truths to manipulate and get the result he wants.
These thoughts led me to the cabin. I'm just throwing this out there so you guys can weigh in with your thoughts, and tell me if I'm wrong (it's more than likely :) ). Now, after all we've seen, am I right in thinking that 'Jacob's Cabin', as it's most often referred to, isn't actually Jacob's Cabin? When we first went into the cabin, Ben was acting out a scene, talking to 'Jacob', and someone says 'Help me', and Locke sees an old man in a rocking chair for a millisecond. We see it again when Hurley peeks through a crack in the cabin wall, and sees 'Christian' in the same chair, and a mad eye looking out at him (I still say that was Jack's eye). Then, Locke, Ben and Hurley go to the cabin, so Jacob could tell them how to move the Island. Inside is 'Christian' and Claire. When Ilana, Bram and the ineffectual Jacob Protection Task Force burn it down, they note that the line of ash is broken, and something has escaped. We now know that Jacob lived in a foot, and not a cabin. So I'm assuming that the cabin was a little like a prison cell for MIB. The ash was broken, so he could escape and roam the Island. I'm well aware that that last sentence is supposition, but if I'm right (and it's a very big 'if'), when did the line of ash break? Smokey was chasing Losties from the very first episode. Dead people have been appearing on Island since the first season. If the line of ash was what was keeping MIB (or whatever) in the cabin (as Ilana's dialogue when they're at the cabin seems to suggest), then how the hell was MIB appearing as Smokey and dead people? For that matter, why did Ben think that the cabin was where Jacob lived? He obviously thought it was, because when the chips were down, he was looking for the cabin with Hurley and John in order to talk to Jacob. When Ben lead John there the first time, as he was leaving the Others' camp, was Richard thinking "Ben, you tool, Jacob lives in a foot, not a cabin! Silly boy!"?
Sorry, I did warn you I'd be long winded. But the Christian talk here made me ponder all that. Please, pick away!
Didn't have a power cord all day so... I'm late back to the party! Still have over 40 comments to go but here are some thoughts first!
@Zari: Sun recognizing Locke: Because she suffered a near-death experience, just like Charlie. I'm sure if he saw Claire (he probably will) he would recognize her.
@Ambivalentman: Not to be too spoilery, but the writers thought they had been obvious with that but once they received many question regarding Ilana's line to that effect they came out and said: "It's probably because Jacob is dead." They didn't want fans to speculate endlessly.
@Rad: an issue with the cabin and ash is that the Smoke Monster was roaming on the island as early as Day 1 of the crash, long before we saw the line of ash being disturbed.
@Fred: Actually, Claire's "friend" is NewLocke/Smokey, as she introduces him to Jin saying "This isn't John, THIS is my friend." and he probably was Christian when everyone was off the island. In the end, her "friend" is Smokey in whatever form.
So it's HIGHLY LIKELY that Smokey was Christian at some point - in the cabin with Claire - but I do believe he is lying about being him on the third day (White Rabbit)
Comments on Christian
Check out my blog on the various appearances. An update will come later!
@Susan: I do remember that podcast, I looked it up a few times. It's easy to extrapolate that way I agree. I think a big piece is that the horse likely never made it to the island (dead) to be possessed by the smoke monster, so being undead does not necessarily mean being the smoke monster - as you have realized!
But I do believe SM was Christian at some point, and his answer last night, though I believe inaccurate, revealed that.
@Hutch: While interesting theory on Jacob being Christian and would imply A LOT in terms of plot, Jacob has never appeared as anyone in the first five seasons. The writers came out after The Incident because it was causing too much confusion, i.e.: If MiB can take different personalities, maybe Jacob did that before too!
MilesRules: I do believe that he was Christian for a certain time, but not in White Rabbit nor in The Beginning of the End nor Something Nice Back Home, where he appears OFF-island (see my blog for a list of Christian appearances).
@Blam: What if:
The suit-Christian appearances are the one Jack was bringing back from Sydney; and,
The dark-shirt/boots appearance are the one Jack was bringing back from Sydney... IN THE AU! They can't find where he is, and we don't know what he was supposed to be wearing!
Just throwing it out there!
I can rant too...
@Teebore: But, THEY didn't make it a question, WE DID. They never addressed it in anything other than THAT show. The wording MAY be suggestive but let's look at it this way.
Eloise made a comment that a smart man built the Lampost, maybe it wasn't Dharma and they took it over. Her comment could simply (Occam's razor) mean that it's an extremely difficult task to find the island and that it took a very smart man to build something that would be able to find it.
To ME, that never was a question, it would have become one had they provided an answer, otherwise it's information.
Given that it's a TV show wrapped in mysteries and user speculation, a lot of techniques used (Bentham) will be to continue those mysteries.
As viewers we don't know who Bentham is until we NEED to know! While it may jeopardize the narrative of the show, I believe it necessary, otherwise there would be the need for a sub-plot as to why there is a NEED to call him Bentham.
Just having the character call him such to keep the viewer in the dark is fine by me.
I'll be honest. this is an interesting discussion to have. There are mysteries in terms of plot and in terms of narrative. And some questions we are asking may be irrelevant in that they only served a narrative purpose and we'll be disappointed, while other we may think small will be revealed big questions only when answered!
I actually enjoyed that you went long because I think it allowed this topic of discussion to happen and it is, I find, an important one.
The way the show have been developed and narrated, we take it for granted that the writers are nearly perfect but we must accept that it is a TV show and some minor production details will leak through. Because LOST has to answer to much more scrutiny than any other shows, we expect it to behave much more rigidly than them, but let's be honest here... right?
You may be ranting right now, but I'm sure you're not the only one and, even though you may keep ranting past Victoria day, you'll very well enjoy the last hours and feel a relief once the show ends.
vw: potomit -- what Yoda tells in substance abuse programs.
In the ambulance when Locke says "Helen Norwood...I was going to marry her..."
I think he's assuming that he's dying and will never get the chance.
@Batcabbage: I think a key aspect of the "Two Christian Conjecture" is the various wears he has.
1. Suit/WHITE TENNIS SHOES: on the beach to Vincent/Jack, in the cabin to Hurley, in the real world to Jack.
2. Dark shirt/boots: Claire at night, Locke in the cabin with Claire and in the Dharmacakra cave, Sun & Frank in the processing centre, Michael on the freighter.
Since the body was in the coffin with a suit and WHITE TENNIS SHOES and that occurrence appears OFF-island, I posit that [1] is NOT the smoke monster while [2] could very well be, and possibly kept Claire company.
[2] is what is still unclear.
Okay, I'm back and just finished catching up with the comments! But first...
@Rainier @Zari @TiaSabita: Thank you for the birthday wishes! The babies were very awesome today and it was a nice little joy to have while being at the hospital!
@Zari: Happy Birthday, you Bairn Brian-with-a-Brain! Oh man, I gotta write that DOWN!
RE: Why Desmond didn’t break anything when FLocke pushed him over: Like with the rest of the candidates, I’m thinking the Island/Jacob still has use for him (SEE: Jack and Richard VS Stick of dynamite). What Desmond’s further purpose could be? I’m eager to know!
RE: Sayid’s Salvation: What I wouldn’t give more than to see the salvation of this character who has suffered the loss of Nadia, Shannon, and essentially his humanity. With much of his reasons to live already gone, he's basically got nothing to lose. My bets are that Sayid will play out as Lost’s Darth Vader and do something along the lines of “toss the Emperor into oblivion”, if you know what I mean. =)
SERIOUSLY THOUGH! WTF Losties, you’ve got some uber strength to swim fully clothed like that.
@TM Lawrence: Finally, though I could go on, Jack's post-concussive ear-ringing, and the instant restoration of English speech physically within the field of the sonar barrier (Lapidus should talk less) all speak to the paramount importance of auditory perception within this episode. I like this! Maybe I should try and listen to this episode from start to finish and see what else I can find… AUDITORIALLY?! Yeah, that sounds about right!
RE: Zoe – It really feels like they’ve been writing her very… Nikki and Paulo, yes? So far she’s looking to be a very hated character much like the dumbtastic duo. Poisonous spiders are too passé for the last season… so here’s to hoping Smokey tears her to shreds! Huzzah!
@Blam: Did anyone else find Beach-Explosion Flying Jack awesome enough to deserve a rewind? I think I just found my next favorite loop! Someone needs to make this into a .gif, now!
@Kiki: your thoughts on who is everyone’s constant in the sideways world is really good!
@Rad: Then an army of Ewoks would rain from the heavens and help obliterate the evil Smokey... I lol’d!
More feedback later!
WV: depoty - (1) warehouse like, (2) where Desmond and Penny's little Chah-lie goes to make poopy.
@Benny: I completely agree. Something that you said, though, got me thinking: appearing to Michael on the freighter. Now, this could just be because the writers didn't fully know where they were taking MIB/Smokey in season 4, but this season, when Sawyer questions Flocke about just 'flying over to Hydra Island as smoke', Flocke says if he could do that, he would have left already. Much like you've done, Benny, I've narrowed down the reasons for this to three things:
1> Due to the 'water phobia', that projection of Christian on the freighter wasn't Smokey.
2> When Smokey is projecting himself as someone else, he doesn't physically need to be there, and it's more of a spiritual projection.
3> The writers weren't fully aware of Smokey's limitations at that point, and he could go out over water.
I'm not sure which of those I'd go with. Maybe the third one. I mean, as the Claire-napping Christian, 'Christian' was holding Aaron, so I assume there's a physical presence to his projections. Another option, I suppose, could be that he was totally lying to Sawyer about the water thing. This is Flocke, after all.
VW - gentism: 1> a colloquial term used by the gentry. 2> an irrational hatred of gentlemen.
There is indeed some issues.
But I'm also left wondering if smokey wasn't lying.
1. He was on the main island when Sun and Frank landed in the outrigger. (Namaste)
2. That same night, 'Locke' is found on the beach by Ilana and her crew. (The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham)
3. The next morning he's told one outrigger of three was taken, he tells his story and then is brought to Ben. (The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham)
So, if Sun and Frank land on the main island and hear the smoke monster, then talk to Christian, does that leave enough time for whoever he wants to be to paddle back to Hydra? I don't think so.
I think that he was/is able to go over water for limited distances, and he may possibly now be restricted further due to Jacob's death.
He may also need others to try and distract/fight with/kill Widmore's crew? I dunno!
Hey Nikki! We shout you out on this week's LOST-based INNERSPACE episode - tune in on Thursday night :)
Several people have mentioned that Desmond is playing a Jacob-ish role. On the Globe and Mail chat someone asked if it's possible that Jacob is inhabiting Desmond. I definitely had the same thought. I think we're supposed to assume that Sayid didn't shoot Desmond - but isn't it possible that he DID shoot him, and that for some reason - maybe the fact that he was in the well - Jacob was able to inhabit his body?
I posted this on the last episode's blog, but not sure if anyone read it, so I'll mention it again...
If it was Jacob's ash surrounding the cabin, then just how many times has Jacob been burned/died? I mean Ilana seemed to think Jacob's ash was important which leads me to believe that it is Jacob's ash surrounding the cabin...
Just a thought from a long time reader and first time poster...
Lisa
The one thing that really stuck out for me was the APPLE Sawyer munches on while he's hitting on Kate in the police station.
First it just seemed funny that Sawyer was eating a healthy snack and funnier that he was chewing on it like bubble gum. Then I noticed that Kate had an uneaten apple (the one he offered her) sitting right in front of her through the whole scene.
I'm guessing this Apple's another illusion to Paradise LOST- the forbidden apple in Sawyer and Kate's Eden (alternate reality).
And if so, James' chomping away on that apple means he's ain't staying in Paradise :)
Does anyone think that the people in the outrigger shooting at Sawyer & Co. in early season 5 are our sideways characters? What if when they eventually do...something...they end up on the Island in our reality? After all, that scene did take place in 2007, or post-2007.
Loved the episode. Loved Rad's comments especially.
Did you guys hear that youtube is taking down the Downfallen parodies? I don't know what I'm going to do to waste time now. The Lost one was especially good.
@Lisa - If it was Jacob's ash surrounding the cabin, then just how many times has Jacob been burned/died?
That's a really good point - maybe it was the guy/girl/entity before Jacob...the Original "Jacob"? Maybe Jacob body hops...like MiB does. He finds a candidate and then becomes them. Sorta like the Dalai Lama - it isn't the actual same guy but it is the "spirit" of the same guy. I head a Buddhist monk describe all the different Dalai Lamas as currents of water in the same river. He then paid for my whiskey and evaporated into thin air. Good guy.
That's I heard a Buddhist monk.
Joan: Yeah, I'm not touching that one.
Nurse Brian: Belated Happy Birthday from one Brian to another!
VW: revather — To vather, and then vather again.
Joan Crawford: Whatever it was that you did to that Buddhist monk is between you. You are among friends here and no one will judge the manner in which you choose to turn your prayer-wheel... :^)
Word Verf: goenzu : Yes, tomorrow, to see the monkeys and feed the elephants and giraffes.
RE: swimming in clothes - Also, why on earth was Jack still lugging that backpack around. When he got out of the water I expected him to fall over! Whatever is in there can't be any good and it's got to weigh a ton!
@Duke: Is it okay to also shout "Kill her" whenever Zoe is on the screen?
Absolutely. Go with the flow. I just find that DIE ZOE DIE works best for me. I also gives a useless character some sort of purpose, thereby making her slightly more tolerable. Aw who am I kidding. DIE ZOE DIE!
Also Did it make anyone else nervous when Jin was all "We will NEVER be apart again". Can you say "jinx"????
My sister groaned and said, "Oh great. Now one of them is going to die." We're okay with that as long as it isn't Jin. We're kind of annoyed with the other half (Sorry to any Sun lovers out there)
@Joan: Unless a Quiet Hiding Smoke Monster was watching and giggling in the bushes. I kinda like that more, actually.
You would :) You were probably hiding with him.
And that's about the extent of my posting for tonight. I think I got through most of the comments. Fascinating stuff all around. Hmm... Christian. Lots to think about.
VW: noome - dyslexic electronic nighttime light (too far? oh well)
VW2: hummonin - when two hums sound the same but are spelled differently
@Joan Crawford & Lisa: RE: Jacob's Ash: Welcome to the fun-fest Lisa! I really like that idea of the ash around the cabin being composed of multiple "Jacobs"! Whether it be Jacob-reincarnated or Jacob-predecessors/replacements, I do like this idea!
@Joan Crawford: That's I heard a Buddhist monk.
:Ba-dum CHING:
@Blam: Thanks Blam! Aren't all Brian's just AWESOME? Brian WILSON, Brian BOITANO, Brian AUSTIN GREENE, Brian COX... Shrimp COCKTAIL, Shrimp BARBEQUE, Shrimp SALAD... wait, what was I talking about? =)
WV: fousal - skeletal remains preserved by time, accented
WV2 (because I took too long): biltiata - fancy term for breast implants
Jorge has posted his podcast for this episode on his GJB Blog:
http://geronimojacksbeard.blogspot.com/
Word Verf: danes : Really!...AND denes, dines, dones, dunes! Say your vowels, and don’t forget “y” – dynes.
@RebeccaSonshine:
VW: noome - dyslexic electronic nighttime light (too far? oh well)
VW2: hummonin - when two hums sound the same but are spelled differently.
Totally excellent! Well done!
Word Verf: itsms : Yes, I'm married, but I still prefer this form of address.
Nikki-Brilliant write up, as always. Just a few comments-
"• Sayid’s cold, dead-eyed response to Locke when he asks if he killed Desmond: “Of course I did. Go and check if you’d like.” :::shudder:::"
Really? I actually saw a hint of humanity in him, as soon as Smoky turned his back on him. Like Desmond did something to him...
I thought the same thing with the Jin/Sun reunion, "Dont go thru the fence! Wait! Wait!" But they aint gonna stop for nothing!
Fawlty Towers! Funny, my sun was just watching those on-line the other day! I love that show, all 12 episodes!
@Benny-concerning Christian-did Jack ever hear wispering when he saw his father? He was the only one who saw the suited version, right? I totally agree that Locke was lying about being Christian to Jack. But I have no doubt that he was Yemi to Ecko.
"-"Look like someone got their voice back" Hadn't even noticed myself."
She didn't until she saw Jin, or are you being fasetious?
"9. Jack: "The island is not done with us yet."
But he doesn't mean Locke, neither did Widmore. But what happens with Jack now?"
I still believe Jack is very important, and he is Exactally where he needs/is suppose to be.
Oh, yea, Nikki, your comment about Jack recognizing Locke-IMO, how could you NOT recognize him? To me, he has a very distinct face, plus possibly looking at the x-ray jarred something in his brain. But it is probabally just the real world bleeding over again. Ho-hum (just kidding).
@Marebabe-"To anyone whose dread of the End of LOST is ruining your enjoyment of these last episodes, I would just encourage you to relax and enjoy every minute of the story as it unfolds."
Amen, sistah!
Just a random thought-Why in Sam Blazes is Claire so Trusting of people! Is there no crime in Sydney? No rapes or kidnapping? Jeesh!
word verif-notreven-the answer to the Blonde Joke "What did the Blonde say when she noticed one 'leg' (changed for PG rating) 'shorter' (smaller) than the other...
darn didn't work again-another wv-synapoi-someone Chinese/Hawaiian?
@JS-concerning Locke talking to Jack. Didn't Jack talk first? And this was after Hurley had talked first? I don't remember for sure, since I haven't had a chance to rewatch yet, but I think Jack asked Locke first if they could talk. Maybe that cancels any effect MIB can have over him. That way, he can be with them, but still be useful for Jacobs team. Ooh, I like that! Fits with what I said before about him being exactally where he needs to be.
@scrvet-the sailboat was the Elizabeth-saw the partial name at one point. Just a side wondering about the boat, why did Sawyer and Kate start swimming from the BEACH, when they so easily coulve started from the end of that coral jutting! They had shoes on!
@JS (again)-"I was loving Jack in this episode. He stayed true to his follower-ship, and yet followed his intuition."
Yes! Jack jumping off that boat! Loving it! But what the heck was in that backpack that was keeping him afloat? Shouldn't he have sunk like a rock?
"I am confused on Widmore’s use of dynamite."
Do we know for sure what was in that missle?
"@Nikki – I am with you, Jack has perfect recall of someone he met once at an airport from a squished up face in an mirror."
But hasn't been hinted at in the past that he has a photographic memory? He remembers numbers after hearing them one time, whenever anyone asks if something needs to be repeated, he says no. I'm sure it helped with his med training. Personally, it makes my brain hurt thinking about having that much stuff in my head!
word verif-faings-what you see on a Vampire south of the Mason/Dixon line!
@Lisa(ufn)-"My husband and son were making fun of me tonight as we watched because I got so emotional. I had to hide my face a lot and was surprisingly emotional when Sun and Jin re-united."
Same with me only it was my daughter and husband, and it was when we were watching "Ji-Yeon" pretty much from the time she had her all the way thru to the cemetary, where I was blubbering uncontrollably (is that a word?) My husband, who is not caught up yet, was like, "Why are you so emotional?" and I was like, "Because I know what's going on". The same thing happened last week with Hurley and Libby when he was spreading the BLANKET out for their picnic! All I could think was "He REMEMBERED the BLANKET! YAY!" and couldnt stop crying. I think the stress of anticipation is wearing on us, and, I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe a break for a week would be good for us...could it? Can it??
@latelylost-"Jin/Sun, finally - lovely, and too short. "Somebody got her voice back" - cheesy with extra curds, but awesome because it was said by Frank."
hahaha! Cheese Curds! (or is it cheese carrots?) lol
And by the way, are they ever gonna give Frank something more to say than one liners?
@DavidB226Morris-"I really think that the reason Desmond ran him over was because he was trying to find a way to get the real Locke in the same world with Smokey."
Or, maybe that was his way of geting Locke and Jack together in SW? Now that's extreme!
@Teebore-"Speaking of which, how did Team Widmore know where FLocke was when they bombarded him? He smashed the radio..."
I was thinking that too, but just had a thought that maybe the radio was a ruse, and maybe Smokey emits some kind of EM signature, or something that they were able to lock onto.
@Virginia Katz-"Started to really worry that there would have to be choice between saving Sun and saving Locke, a la Shannon's dad and Sara. Guess there were more doctors on duty this time!"
I was TOTALLY thinking the same thing, especially since they were being wheeled into the ER at the same time! And it was also a total shocker that Sun's baby survived. A good shocker though.
@Zari-"Jack: “It doesn’t feel right leaving the Island; it feels like a part of me is missing.”
Sawyer: “They have pills for that, Doc.”
Totally expected Jack to say something along the line of "Been there, done that".
@Nurse Brian-"Also: Was it horrible of me to sit and wait for some sort of spontaneous combustion to happen with Sideways Ilana?"
hahahahahahahahahaha. No. And Happy Birthday. Say, my daughter wants to be a nurse, and she has it narrowed down to a Neonatal nurse. Can you become a specialized nurse, or do you just get a general RN? Just wondering for her (she has 2 more yrs of high school yet before college, btw). Thanks!
word verif-broos-"Hello, Broos", "Oh hello Broos, how are you Broos", "Let me introduce you to Broos"
@Lisa(ufn)-"I know the writers wanted us to see that Sun could speak English again, but why right away?"
Exactally! Seems to me that it would have been more natural for them both to start speaking to each other in Korean. Plus, it bugged me that Sun said just "Jin" instead of "Jin-se-she" (or however it is spelled). "Those pants dont make you look fat" is not the thing to say in this situation!
word verif-woodis-as in, "Pardon me, but could you please introduce me to your friend?"
@Rad-""that pilot who looks like he stepped off the set of a Burt Reynolds movie" this had to be one o the funniest lines of the entire series, I couldn't stop laughing."
You know, the more I think about it, he reminds me of someone who just stepped of the set of an "Airport" movie! (not "Airplane", but...maybe).
I'm never gonna get thru these comments! Too much to respond to!
word verif-vewoutf-Beowulf with a lisp?
@TM Lawrence-Thanks for the "Spine Surgery for Dummys"! How do you know all that stuff??
Now that I think of it, a creature that can be contained by a sonic fence might not be keen on using a radio. That might have something to do with smashing the radio.
I don't know how California law works, but here in NY, there is no "reading of the Will".
Jack says he knew she was in the will, but did not know her relation. A properly written will should have specified "my daughter, Claire" for clarification. Kind of a typical Hollywood blooper of "will reading" Sorry for the vent, but it has always driven me crazy
@Nurse Brian - Happy Birthday, your Brian-ness!
@Kotowski - Nikki raised an interesting theory on the outrigger scenario during the Globe & Mail chat yesterday: she posited that Sawyer et. al will find a way to escape from Hydra in an outrigger, then DieZoeDie & Her Meatsock Minions™ will follow. They will be the ones who see the timeflashing Sawyer/Juliet outrigger and shoot at THEM, actually allowing our present-day Sawyer/Kate outrigger to get away in the confusion. Beautiful, eh? THAT'S why Nikki is the writer, I tellya!
Zoe is this year's Phil.
She'll probably get a memorable death in the finale :)
A few things.
When Jin and Sun did that run towards each other, and they ended it with the hug/kisses, That morbid side of me thought.. and BOOM goes the dynamite. But I did say FINALLY as well.
With Sayid, why does it have to be Nadia, why can't it be Shannon?
And is anyone else getting that Final Destination feel. Like this all ends in a cataclysmic event in both Realities, and Desmond is the glue to make them all be at the same place at the same time? "While I have all of you here brothas and Sistas..." BOOOM!!
And I've said it once and I'll say it again, if this all ends with an austic kid looking into a snow globe, I'm going to have a long talk with my friend who got me hooked on Lost...
D-Ron
I don't think this has been commented on here yet (and I may have missed it - I'm a little wonky with allergies. Better Living Through Chemicals, I say) but I was struck by one element of Smockey's first meeting with Jack. After he senses that he hasn't made the impact that he desires, Claire appears - almost as if Smockey has summoned her to tag-team Jack.
This seems directly manipulative - if he can't manipulate Jack successfully enough by conjuring the image of his dead father, he'll drive that point home by bringing in Claire to tweak Jack's guilt-reflex about 'abandoning' his half-sister to three years of isolation in the jungle. This reminded me of when Smockey had talked to Kate previously - then Claire first attempts to kill her and later apologizes for it. More manipulation by the dark lord.
@crazyinlost:
No whispers in White Rabbit and Walkabout.
Hurley also saw the suited version in the cabin. I have an extended description of EVERY appearance on my blog. Jack did hear Christian on the Hydra intercom.
Also, it was confirmed by the writers in a podcast about Yemi and the spiders being the monster.
As for Sun speaking, what I meant is that when she started speaking to Jin, it didn't even click that she couldn't speak just a few hours prior! Too caught in the moment I guess.
And I've said it once and I'll say it again, if this all ends with an austic kid looking into a snow globe, I'm going to have a long talk with my friend who got me hooked on Lost...
Never happen.
It'll be Hurley in the mental hospital with a snow globe.
@Sagacious Penguin: Zoe is this year's Phil.
Ha! Yeah, you're probably right. Though for all the Zoe hate out their, she just doesn't raise the ire in me like weaselly Phil did. At least not yet.
@Benny: So, if Sun and Frank land on the main island and hear the smoke monster, then talk to Christian, does that leave enough time for whoever he wants to be to paddle back to Hydra? I don't think so.
You might be saying this already and I'm just misunderstanding, but a thought occurs: theoretically, Smokey wouldn't be paddling "back" to Hydra after meeting Frank and Sun.
He'd be on the main island already, wearing his Christian suit. Then, after leaving Sun and Frank, he crosses over to Hydra and puts on his new Locke suit.
A minor point, granted, and it still asks the question of how he crossed from island to island in the first place, and whether he had enough time to talk with Frank and Sun, cross the channel, and change "clothes" before Ilana and the others found him.
it didn't even click that she couldn't speak just a few hours prior! Too caught in the moment I guess.
Or you just forgot a somewhat hackneyed plot point. ;)
Returning to our tangential discussion of mystery on Lost...
otherwise there would be the need for a sub-plot as to why there is a NEED to call him Bentham.
Just having the character call him such to keep the viewer in the dark is fine by me.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. For me, just having the character call him such to keep the viewer in the dark isn't a good enough reason.
For me, (most) every off camera motivation (preserving the shock ending) needs a corresponding on camera motivation (such as 'bad people are looking for Locke, so call him 'Bentham' for everyone's safety'), in order to maintain the integrity of the narrative.
I believe the writers have a responsibility to make sure that whatever actions the characters take (referring to Locke as Bentham) make sense for the characters, and not just the audience. We know why the characters are calling him Bentham (to preserve the secret identity of the man in the casket) but the characters don't know why they're calling him that. To me, that's a bit of sloppy writing in an otherwise amazingly-written show.
But I can understand that it won't bother everyone. Different strokes, and all that.
(And it isn't like I wanted them to spend a lot of time on it. If they'd shown us Locke telling one or two of the Oceanic Six why they had to call him Bentham at all costs, the audience can then just assume he had the same conversation with everyone.)
Because LOST has to answer to much more scrutiny than any other shows, we expect it to behave much more rigidly than them, but let's be honest here... right?
Oh, absolutely. Bottom line, it's a TV show, and as much as the show is Darlton's vision, it's a collaborative effort, and mistakes get made, different authorial voices can conflict, etc.
And for all my grousing in this discussion, Lost holds up to the scrutiny it's put under MUCH better than any other show. No doubt about it.
It's just that as the end approaches and the depth of the answers we're going to get becomes more and more clear (and, conversely, the things we're not getting answers for, or the things, such as the Lamp Post builder, that it turns out were never actually mysteries in the first place), I find myself looking back and grumbling about some of the loose ends that aren't going to get tied up.
even though you may keep ranting past Victoria day, you'll very well enjoy the last hours and feel a relief once the show ends.
Definitely. For me, it's not a matter of whether or not I'll enjoy the finale, just a question of how MUCH I'll enjoy it.
And like I said, I'm really not someone for whom the success of the finale, or the show overall, hinges on what gets answered. I'm far more interested in seeing how the plot unfolds and how the characters interact with it and how it affects them
Besides, after the finale, we can spend our time parsing out answers to the remaining mysteries.
@Teebore:
Smokey wouldn't be paddling "back" to Hydra after meeting Frank and Sun.
AH! Correct my friend, but it is true he would have to get to Hydra somehow! Whether or not he is Christian, we know he was on the main island by the sound Sun and Frank hear!
Or you just forgot a somewhat hackneyed plot point. ;)
HA! Maybe I just did that!
Back to our sinusoidal discussion!
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
I disagree... I meant I agree
uch as 'bad people are looking for Locke, so call him 'Bentham' for everyone's safety'
I agree, this is a simple reason (and the fact that there were no more 815 survivors) for giving him a second name. But that reason is not strong enough for the characters to refer to him as Bentham when talking to each other, unless they fear being under surveillance.
but the characters don't know why they're calling him that.
Let me remember correctly, I think only Sayid referred to him as Bentham. Hurley wanted to call him Locke and didn't know why he should call him Bentham. And the others never used any name, except for Walt (who seemed freaked out!)
-But you are right, the characters don't know why they're referring to him as Bentham, and there could have been a single line to allude to that.
[...] were never actually mysteries in the first place), I find myself looking back and grumbling about some of the loose ends that aren't going to get tied up.
I'm right there with you! We have different things we want answered and we may not get them. And I mentioned that a while back, I think some of the unanswered questions (whether they were intended as such) will lead fans to connect the dots many different way and have different overall interpretations of the show, and I personally think that's a good thing.
Something else just occurred to me (I swear, it's the meds): I suddenly realized why David is with Jack at the hospital while he performs surgery - so that his mom can show up there to pick him up when the surgery (naturally, as Nik pointed out) runs long! We will finally get this reveal, I'm betting, as to who Jack's ex and David's mom is ... and my money is on Juliet. Now, as to how Sawyer gets to the hospital to meet her and discuss going for coffee, dutch, remains to be seen.
Unless of course it's BEN she meets at the hospital and talks about that fateful cup o' joe. How funky would THAT be?
Regarding Smokey getting back and forth between Hydra and the main Island quickly, remember we now know he's had access to The Elizabeth for who knows how long... maybe he's been using it?
@Benny Whether or not he is Christian, we know he was on the main island by the sound Sun and Frank hear!
Definitely.
I wonder...we know (if we take Locke at his word) that Smokey can't "smoke" himself over to Hydra, but can he swim?
Maybe it's as simple as Smokey, as Christian, swimming over to Hydra and then changing into (dry) Locke.
But that reason is not strong enough for the characters to refer to him as Bentham when talking to each other, unless they fear being under surveillance.
Yeah, that's not a good explanation, just one I came up with on the fly. I'd like to think the writers could have done better than me. :)
I think some of the unanswered questions (whether they were intended as such) will lead fans to connect the dots many different way and have different overall interpretations of the show, and I personally think that's a good thing.
We'll just have to agree to agree here, cuz I'm on the same page!
In fact, one of the things I'm looking forward to about the finale is that we'll finally have the whole story, we'll know what is answered and what isn't, and it'll be a lot easier to connect the dots on unanswered stuff and start debating interpretations when we KNOW the show isn't going to change any of that up on us.
It's just that I know there's some dots we won't be able to connect no matter how hard we try, and that troubles me, just a wee bit.
@SagaciousPenguin: that's a fair comment. The only thing not working for me is this:
We wonder how he got from the main island to hydra, but we know he outriggered with Ben back to the main island.
So if he used the Elizabeth, then I'm thinking it should be anchored by the Hydra, not the main island.
I'm starting to think maybe his 'flying-over-water-for-short-distances' ability has been limited by Jacob being killed, just as we know his 'taking-other-forms' ability has.
@Benny: I'm starting to think maybe his 'flying-over-water-for-short-distances' ability has been limited by Jacob being killed, just as we know his 'taking-other-forms' ability has.
Then again, some attention was paid, when Locke and Ben outriggered over from Hydra, of Locke deliberately removing his shoes when boating then replacing them on the island.
It could just be one of those mysteries-that's-not-a-mystery (Locke didn't want to risk getting his shoes wet and walking across the island w/wet feet) or maybe it had something to do with his limitations regarding water, suggesting those limitations were in place before Jacob's death.
Honestly though, the water limitation occurring at the same time as his body swapping limitation (Jacob's death) is probably the easiest answer, and the business with the shoes is a non-issue.
@Teebore: Let me add this, they were Christian's shoes too! Could that serve a bigger purpose?
Was the focus on the shoes because of water-issues or because of Christian-issues!
Just thinking!
@Teebore: Ilana does say he was standing in the water! Could have just arrived.
We'll just have to agree to agree here, cuz I'm on the same page!
I disagree... wait, that was my point! Okay then!
It's just that I know there's some dots we won't be able to connect no matter how hard we try, and that troubles me, just a wee bit.
True. We'll have a bigger picture and we'll know how some dots do or do not connect, but where some fans may connect the dots to draw a horse, others may get a zebra; or,
Elephant v. mammoth;
Tiger v. puma;
Wolf v. fox;
but what's sure is we wont have a kangaroo v. koala debate!
Batcabbage: Nicely done – and no need for apologies! I think that many of us have made the same observations and had the same questions, but not laid them out so cogently. My own apology: Sorry I don't have any answers for you, although I do have one more question, namely, Why could Hurley see the cabin? We know he has the ability to see and hear dead folks (not at will, necessarily, but when they have something to tell him) yet I'm not really sure how that extends or relates to the cabin sighting. Did MIB and/or Jacob make it visible to him? Was it just a collateral vision that somehow fell within Hurley's extended sensory perception? Does it fall into the possible category of things appearing to characters when they "need" to see them for reasons of destiny or right action or Island-blessed knowledge or reassurance, like Kate's horse or cabin-building Horace? Would the cabin have been visible to anyone at the particular moments Hurley saw it?
VW: parbudif — A standard American golfing bet, wherein if one hits par one is treated to a Budweiser at the 19th hole.
Anyone else think that it is somehow significant at this stage that Christian Shephard's body is presumably still missing in the FST? Or, is this just another of the plot points that has fallen by the wayside as all the pieces continue to move around?
Has nobody else heard the reverb that TM and I heard?
Benny "vs." Teebore: I agree with Benny that it's a fascinating topic for discussion, albeit one that I frankly assumed until now was fairly lopsided among Lost fandom in favor of Teebore's position, which is more-or-less my own. While I'll try to chime in later with more detailed thoughts, Teebore has done a pretty good job of representing my perspective, and I'm certainly glad to see the civil agreement to disagree (and even agree) — not that i'd expect otherwise on this blog or from these two gentlemen (of leisure [and theories])[<— reference to their own enjoyable blogs]. For now I'll just throw out a phrase I've used in the past when discussing comic-book superhero continuity: "I don't dispute Emerson's assertion that 'a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds'. You and I just have different takes on when it gets foolish."
VW: whisht — Young Ben Linus did this as he blew out his birthday candles.
humanebean: We really can't do any more than Magic 8 Ball that one at this point, they're juggling so much, but Benny had the rather mind-blowing idea that the "other" Christian, if not Smokey, is the one from the alternate timeline.
@Crazy In Lost: Thank you for the birthday wishes! I think that it’s great that your daughter wants to become a nurse! So basically, for a Registered Nurse (RN) program, you have to be trained very broadly in all aspects of nursing. Meaning you’ll cover the ill adults, the ill children, the eldery, women’s health, newborns, and community health. After you get your accreditation, you take the boards and become a registered nurse! At this point, you are able to sift into any specialized care. The key is that to get your foot into the door to these special points of care, you have to have experience. So even though you may not start out exactly where you want to, you may find your way there eventually! I’m still in nursing school right now, but you still got to admire the prospective students who want to join the nursing field! Here’s a link to my nursing school that you and your daughter may want to peruse!
nursing.sdsu.edu
Though, there are many, MANY great nursing schools throughout the world! Mine’s the only one I really have a pulse on, so there you have it! I hope this little tidbit of info helps!
That’s right internets, I am a San De-AHH-gan… San Di-yay-gan. German for a “whale’s vagina”!
@Humanebean: Thank you, your royal bean-ness!
RE: Christian’s many forms. Y’know, maybe he just didn’t want to wear the same stuff more than once! “Ghosts” could be image conscious too, I suppose! (kidding, of course). Maybe the bigger mystery is where is he getting these clothes from!!!?!?!!?!
@Benny & @Teebore: RE: We'll have a bigger picture and we'll know how some dots do or do not connect, but where some fans may connect the dots to draw a horse, others may get a zebra. Gosh, what a great discussion we have going here. This’ll have to make me reference one of Lost’s many MANY “alluded-to” books, namely The Little Prince. At the beginning of the book, the author references a picture he drew as a child (a snake that swallowed an elephant [? I forget the specific animal and don’t have the book right next to me. Anyway…]). The author goes on shows the picture to other people who have different interpretations (A hat, for example). What I feel is coming in the next few weeks will be something very grand, but very open to interpretation. I guess I’m saying is when all is said and done (:sob:) we’re definitely going to have our “horses” and “zebras”. And dammit, animals are awesome all the same. …what was I talking about? :)
WV: uncraciz - french, phonetical, to return from madness
@Blam: Why, thank you for the kind words regarding our civil discussion!
As for the 'other' Christian theory, while I did posit that idea, I can't say I'm fully on-board that one yet. There are certainly parts that suggest, though not conclusive, that Smokey was Christian, but as to a body crossing, this idea is contrary to the Occam's razor perspective I'm trying to adopt for the remaining episodes!
@NurseBrian: Spot on! It indeed was an elephant eaten by a snake... I like that comparison too!
Benny:: What if:
The suit-Christian appearances are the one Jack was bringing back from Sydney; and,
The dark-shirt/boots appearance are the one Jack was bringing back from Sydney... IN THE AU! They can't find where he is, and we don't know what he was supposed to be wearing!
Just throwing it out there!
As I just said to HB, the notion that one of the Christians is the (heh) lost body from the alternate timeline is an awesome idea even if it's just blue-sky, outside-the-box, gits-'n'-shiggles theorizing.
Your general breakdown of the Christians and conclusions from same I have no quibble with; it's the data itself that troubles me.
For one thing, the Christian who appears in the cabin with Claire should not be the white-shoed one but the darker-garbed one who may or may not be Smokey/MIB but is probably not the real, presumably altruistic Christian. At first I'd figured you must've made a mistake in what he was wearing, but it's apparently either the producers' mistake for dressing him that way or a big messy blot in the pattern.
For another thing, that "mobisode" was news to me when it got discussed during Nikki's Rewatch, as I haven't seen all the extras from all the DVD sets — didn't know who Frogurt was when he showed up on the series, which to those of you who did is probably akin to Sawyer's blissful ignorance of Prequel Anakin Skywalker 8^) — and I think it's way too big a puzzle piece to have not been incorporated into the show proper. Not that it isn't necessarily canon, or that it shouldn't be; given that it exists, I think it'd be even more unfair for it not to be canon, but having Christian speak at all, let alone in such an apparently defining way by referring to his son, when no other characters beyond Vincent were around and thus he was almost certainly speaking honestly, well, again, I think it was wrong to place it in ancillary material and I think it'd be wrong to invalidate it too, so we have to consider it strongly.
VW: hopti — 1. n. A titanium kangaroo. 2. v. To jump seven notes up from "do".
Blam: For one thing, the Christian who appears in the cabin with Claire should not be the white-shoed one but the darker-garbed one who may or may not be Smokey/MIB
But that Christian is indeed the darker-garbed one! We cannot forget that Christian appeared TWICE in the cabin:
[2] to Locke (Claire was also there); and,
[1] to Hurley, he was sitting in Jacob's chair, wearing white tennis shoes, and then Hurley saw the eye!
This makes me believe both Christians were, at some point, in the cabin (no necessarily at the same time). It could be that what Hurley saw was, in fact, only his body!
As for the mobisodes, I agree that the producers were too loose in how they were presented. While the were originally airing on mobile devices and were put on the DVDs, there could possibly have been a show dedicated to showing them... or at least discussing them.
I think they are fully canon, and the fact that Christian refers to Jack as his son in the last one title So It Begin is indicative of its/his importance.
Indeed, Blam, I'll second Benny's thanks!
@Humanebean: Anyone else think that it is somehow significant at this stage that Christian Shephard's body is presumably still missing in the FST? Or, is this just another of the plot points that has fallen by the wayside as all the pieces continue to move around?
Gosh, I really hope Sideways Christian's missing body isn't another dropped plot/mystery-that-was-never-actually-a-mystery.
If there's any point in the series where mysteries the producers aren't sure they'll have time to resolve shouldn't be introduced, it's the premiere of the final season.
Then again, I suppose one could argue that Christian's missing body in the Sideways reality was meant to do nothing more than trigger the audience's memory of his missing body on the island (thus reminding us of the missing body of island Christian, presumably because it is important, and to continue season six's callback to season one) and to setup the conversation between Sideways Locke and Jack, a conversation with thematic significance as well as plot significance (now Jack remembers meeting Locke).
Occam's Razor, and such.
Lisa:: If it was Jacob's ash surrounding the cabin, then just how many times has Jacob been burned/died? I mean Ilana seemed to think Jacob's ash was important which leads me to believe that it is Jacob's ash surrounding the cabin...
We don't know anything about this for sure, of course, but when Jacob rolled onto the firepit in his four-toed beachfront condo it (A) definitely felt like a hint at phoenix-like revival to come — especially since as with Obi-Wan Kenobi and other mythological forebears he seemed to know and accept his death as part of a larger plan —and (2) certainly sparked a connection between the ash in the firepit and the ash around the cabin in many viewers' minds, a connection that only strengthened when the Shadow Seekers pocketed some Jacob Leftovers.
The fact that the Shadow Seekers seemed to know what to do with the ash (even if it didn't really help Bram against Smokey), the connection with the ash around the cabin, and the existence of ash in the firepit before Jacob died and burned there (although, yeah, sure, it's a firepit, so of course there would be ash) to me all point to this not being the first time Jacob will have died and returned.
Yes, I realize that the notion of Jacob coming back, especially if it's via his own physical form like, say, in the kid(s) running around on the Island recently, calls into question the whole "candidate" thing.
VW: stabsout — How Smokey/Locke destroys walkie-talkies.
Benny: But that Christian is indeed the darker-garbed one! We cannot forget that Christian appeared TWICE in the cabin:
[2] to Locke (Claire was also there); and,
[1] to Hurley, he was sitting in Jacob's chair, wearing white tennis shoes, and then Hurley saw the eye!
Oh. Okey-doke, then. (Apparently, we can forget that, and misunderstand someone's methodical rundown of it, too.)
Interesting 'Berditt' discussion in Jorge's Geronimo Jack's Beard podcast!
@ Benny -- good point about Elizabeth being anchored at the Island, but there IS a period of time when Smokey's actions are definitely unaccounted for (after carrying Richard off into the jungle to meeting Sawyer at the Dharmaville). This is probably when he murdered the Ajira 316 folks (which I still suspect was his doing) so maybe he took an outrigger back over to the Hydra then took the Elizabeth back :)
Just details of course that don't really matter. That instance of him as Christian has never bothered me. The one that's of most concern would probably be Michael on the freighter seeing as how he couldn't have physically showed up there (nor probably poofed into existence right in front of Michael) and it's dubious that he would be able to pull a vision of Christian out of Michael's mind since Michael didn't know Christian.
I'm still all for the two-Christians theories though, mind you. I'd want all the non-suited Christians to be Smokey though.
Ok...here's an interesting comment directly quoted from another blog I read (MBPedia@blogspot.com):
"Meanwhile, the timing of events in the sideways ramped up to "Ludicrous Speed"! Somehow, Locke X was able to land in LA, get fired, find a new job, and then get run down by Desmond, in the same two days that we saw pass for Sun & Jin. I mean, how did they both show up in the hospital at the same time?!?"
SHAZAAM...he's right. And I remember Desmond talking to both Claire and Hurley and mentioning that about a week had passed.
Funny Lost...I still love you.
@ Benny and Blam -- I'd always personally taken the Hurley Cabin moment to be when the MIB took over Christian's body. Like that was the actual body in the rocker just being possessed. Prior to clothes change.
VW - Gamses: what Gollum plays for recreation.
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