“This doesn’t matter – none of this matters. All that matters is that we felt it.”“I’ve seen something real. I’ve seen the truth.”
“What if this… all this… what if this wasn’t supposed to be our life? What if we had some other life and for some reason, we changed things?”
Oh. My. Freakin. God. WHAT an episode that was… I had to go to a book launch tonight and it went an hour longer than it was supposed to, so I didn’t even start this episode until most of you had already watched it through once, so I apologize for how late this is, but MAN was that episode amazing!!!! Why? Well… DESMOND. But also, it was true wish fulfillment for me, seeing two characters I’ve longed to see for a while… and one of them actually made me leap off the couch, pen and notes flying, and jumping around the room and squealing. I WAS SO HAPPY.
“Ab Aeterno” made me cry sad tears and joyous ones, but this one just filled me with so much happiness… you know that scene at the end of How the Grinch Stole Christmas where his heart grew three sizes? That’s how my chest felt at the end of this episode.
At the end of season 2, Desmond pulled out Dickens’ Our Mutual Friend and inside it a key fell out, as did a letter from Penny. I speculated then that maybe it will all come down to love. And once again, Desmond’s story is a beautiful, beautiful love story… a story that suggests that no matter how much pain we’re in, and no matter what we want to erase, that is not a choice we should be given no matter what. Will things be put back the way they were?
I do believe that love will be the reigning force in all of this: it’s what will make all of the characters do what they do, it’s what will save the world or end it… it’s what makes all of us do what we do.
And with all of the tie-ins to The Constant and Flashes Before Your Eyes, this episode was proof that the writers really DID know where they were going early on.
Lost writers, thank you thank you THANK YOU once again for another amazing episode. WOW, just when I thought maybe only the series finale will beat “Ab Aeterno” they present me with this stunner. I LOVE THIS SHOW!!!!!!!!!
Highlights:
• Desmond’s reaction to Widmore telling him he’s back on the island. That twitch in his cheek made ME afraid.
• Minkowski!! We last saw him bleeding to death of a nosebleed in “The Constant.” (Well, we also saw him in “Meet Kevin Johnson,” but chronology-wise “The Constant” was his last ep.)
• Did you notice how faithful Desmond was to me by NOT taking Minkowski up on his female companionship offer?
• On Widmore’s office wall, there’s a painting of a scale with a white rock and a black rock, just like in Smokey’s cave. There’s also a framed ship that looks like the Elizabeth, the ship that Desmond sailed to the island on.
• “You heard of a band called Drive Shaft?” EEEEE!
• CHAH-LIE!!!!!! Oh my GOD I was so happy to see him!!!!!
• When Charlie seems to describe Claire as the woman he’s meant to be with. Sigh… ♥
• Charlie putting his hand up and Desmond seeing the flash of Not Penny’s Boat. AAAHHH!!
• Daniel is sitting at the piano and oh my god it’s Daniel and WHY ARE YOU PANNING PAST HIM… ugh. It’s a stand-in, isn’t it?
• OH MY GOD OH MY GOD they’re showing the back of Daniel’s head again just as Eloise is walking Desmond away to give him the big “you’re not ready” speech and if the camera would just come around his one shoulder and… oh balls. He’s a stand-in, isn’t he?
• Crap, he’s about to drive away but OH MY GOD there’s Daniel’s reflection in the window!! Will they show him???
• “My name is Daniel. Widmore. We’ve got to talk.” AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!! Best return of a character YET!!!!!
• Daniel describing Charlotte. “It was like I already loved her.” ♥♥
• When Desmond wakes up after touching Penny’s hand. It was like “Flashes Before Your Eyes” all over again.
• That sweet lovely scene between Des and Penny after he’d fainted. ♥♥♥
Answers:
• Many of us thought Desmond wasn’t actually on the plane in “LA X.” Wrong.
The Numbers:
The 815 flight landed at 10:42. The bags are on Carousel 4. When Desmond stopped the MRI you could see the numbers 15 and 46 (23 x 2).
Echoes
This episode had a lot of echoes of previous episodes:
• Widmore tells Desmond the island isn’t done with him yet; something Eloise said to Desmond in “316” last season when they were in the Lamppost Station.
• Eloise tells Desmond, “What happened happened.”
• Daniel says, “It happened to you, too, didn’t it?” which are the first words Minkowski said to Desmond in The Constant.
Did You Notice?:
• Desmond + vulnerability + neediness = me unable to completely focus for the first few minutes.
• The bunny’s name is “Angstrom.” An angstrom is a unit of length used to measure wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation. And MAN was that rabbit puffed up… for a moment I thought it had a second head.
• As they stood over BBQ boy’s body and Widmore said, “Zoe, are we ready?” and they brought up Desmond, I yelled NO!! NO WE ARE NOT READY!!
• Did anyone else think when that round thing was glowing in front of Desmond it looked like the scene in “Becoming Part 2” of Buffy when Acathla was about to yank Angel into hell? Gah!!
• Was it just me or did Desmond appear to be making a move on Claire?
• In this reality, Widmore happily offers Des the McCutcheon… in the other, he said he wasn’t worth the alcohol.
• Every flash-sideways has the moment of looking in a mirror; in Desmond’s, he sees his reflection in the window of the police station.
• When Charlie leaves the police station, he and Desmond go drink in “JAX” bar. Heh.
• There’s a sign behind them that says “Exceptional Island Colors”
• Of all things, Charlie asks Desmond if he’s ever been in “consciousness-altering” love.
• In the other universe, Desmond really seems to be one of the people who believes in destiny, but here he says, “There’s always a choice, bruthah” as if he’s more on the side of free will.
• Charlie turns the car into the marina where Desmond was shot.
• For all the crapola CGI they’ve used on the show, the very real effect of the water rushing into the car as it went down was AWESOME.
• When Des couldn’t get Charlie’s seatbelt unbuckled, I thought, “OMG, in every reality Desmond is going to have to watch Charlie drown!”
• Oh hey, hiya, people standing up on that boat as the car went under. I really hate to bug you, because I’m sure you have more important things to do like fishing or standing there staring at seagulls or filming the car in the water so you could post it on YouTube but COULD YOU PLEASE COME OVER TO THE CURB AND FRIGGIN’ HELP ALREADY?!
• The nurse asks Desmond if he has any metal on him before doing the MRI, and that’s the same questions that guy was asking Widmore before they put Desmond in the chamber.
• Des looked like Hannibal Lecter in that chamber.
• Oh Jack… so helpful last week… so unhelpful this week. But still lookin’ hot. What IS IT about you? Those greying sideburns??
• Daniel’s playing the Fantaisie-Impromptu in C# Minor (which had better be important or else it looks like it’s the ONLY piece of classical music the writers know about).
• The sideways world, for Eloise, is the world of GIANT HAIR.
• Eloise knows Desmond the moment she sees him.
• Penny is doing the Tour de Stade that Jack and Desmond were both doing when they first met in “Man of Science, Man of Faith.”
• Besides Desmond, it's the two dead characters who can see that things aren't right in the sideways world.
• Zoe says that Desmond has changed in 20 minutes… 20 minutes is the same time Desmond said it would take for Charlie to decide to leave the bar and be in a 5-star hotel. So much can change in 20 minutes…
• Me to Sayid as he held a gun to Zoe: Shoot her!!! SHOOT HER!!!!
• So I did one of those Google Street Map searches on the corner of Sweetzer and Melrose, and there’s a little eatery called Dolce. Will that be where Desmond and Penny meet? Sweet!!
So Many Questions...
• Does Cusick have a new scar beside his right eyebrow, or is that a phony scar on Desmond from the Ben tussle?
• Why exactly is Widmore showing Jin all of this? Originally it seemed they just wanted him there so they could figure out where the EM pockets were on the island because Jin had made the maps. But now… why is he still there?
• Why did Widmore need to look at the charred remains of that guy?! Does he enjoy gore or something?
• What sacrifice is Desmond going to be asked to make?
• Is Eloise like Desmond? Can she see other worlds? Is she aware of what’s happening? In the original world, Desmond really did want Widmore’s approval more than anything. Now he’s got it… but he doesn’t have Penny. She points out that he got what he wanted, but he lost what he had (to quote Gavin Friday).
• Was… was Daniel wearing… leather pants?!
• Is it possible Daniel is the musician who programmed the Good Vibrations key sequence in the Looking-Glass station?
• So… if Daniel is Eloise and Charles’ son, and he was born before Penny, then it means Widmore had an affair with a woman and Penny was the result. Did Eloise take him back after it happened, or did things happen differently? Did he get Eloise pregnant first, then have another wife, then left her for Eloise?
• If Sayid has no emotions inside him, why didn’t he just shoot Zoe? (And I ask that for more than me just wanting him to.)
• “I just need to show them something.” AAHH!! So when Desmond became conscious again, do we assume that the consciousness of island Desmond has moved into that Desmond and he now retains all of the memories of the other one? Was the Desmond who’s had a child with Penny the one asking her out for coffee?
And tomorrow at noon I will once again be participating in the Globe and Mail Lost chat from noon to 1pm EST. Go here to ask questions and comment. See you there!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/
Next week on Lost:
416 comments:
1 – 200 of 416 Newer› Newest»Something has happened in the part of my brain where “Lost” lives. As we get closer to the end, I’m becoming far less analytical, and just “watching for enjoyment”. I love reading other people’s theories and acute observations, but I am no longer so interested in scribbling down notes during the show and trying to connect the many threads. In time, it will all be laid out before us. However, I did pick up my pen a few times this evening to note some very small details in “Happily Ever After”.
The white bunny’s name was Angstrom! How absolutely perfect. Even better than Doc Brown naming his dogs Einstein and Copernicus in the “Back to the Future” movies. And I liked the painting of scales in Widmore’s office. Just like the scales found in the cave on the Island, with the black and white rocks. Widmore’s office... I really enjoyed seeing Charles and Desmond as good friends. And when Charles smiled and hugged Des, well, it was extraordinary how that big smile totally transformed him.
Tonight it was Michael Emerson saying, “Mmm... cake!”
A couple nit-picky things. Head wounds bleed a LOT. Charles would’ve been bleeding like a stuck pig from that gash in his forehead. Although it was refreshing to see someone get bashed in the head with a different sort of weapon. This was the first time an I.V. stand was used. Nice one, Des.
And I’m frankly surprised that they let a couple little goofs get by, when Charlie and Desmond were in the water. I saw Charlie’s eyes quickly open and close when he was supposed to be unconscious while still inside the submerged car. And when Desmond was towing him back to land, Charlie was still supposedly unconscious, but he shook his head for a moment. If you want to see it for yourself, it’s in the last second or two before they cut for a commercial break. You’d think the director and editors would realize that all eyes would be on Charlie’s face in those moments, looking for life signs. Anyway, that’s where I was looking.
Will post more tomorrow!
"I don't want to set off a nuclear bomb Mr Hume, I think I already did"
1. Opening on Desmond's eye; the entire episode was, as man y expected Desmond's ability, an EM-induced reality-shift. While Desmond didn't realize anything during that time, both of his selves remembered their crossing.
1A. Desmond's crossing over in the water is confirmed not to be the first. Charlie's was set-off during turbulence and he saw Claire, Daniel's was set-off after seeing Charlotte and wrote physics notes.
2. Minkowski the driver, sooooo... fitting.
3. Charles working with Widmore? The painting of the balance on Widmore's office door.
And how nice - though odd - was it to see Des finally taste Charles' McCutcheon.
4. Daniel being a musician as opposed to a physicist. No interference from his mother in this life!
5. Charlie: "Consciousness-altering".
6. When Desmond lets Charlie make his choice, Charlie replies "Doesn't really seem like a choice." And Desmond says "There's always a choice". While similar to MIB's 'choice', there's no literal death here, and Charlie clearly has a choice of whatever future comes from that choice.
7. The MRI 'button'. "If you press it, we'll have to start everything over again".
8. Jack confused as to Charlie being on their flight and now in that specific hospital.
9. Eloise: "What happened, happened" and "It's a violation"... of what? the rules?
10. Charlotte having a chocolate bar.
11. "I don't want to set off a nuclear bomb Mr Hume, I think I already did" I just love this line!
12. Penny running the tour de stade.
13. Desmond: "Can you get me the manifest from my flight from Sydney? Oceanic 815. Just the name of the passengers".
14. What is with Desmond? Has his entire personality evaporated? He just agrees to everyone, Widmore and then Sayid, it seems he just earned a trust for Widmore and now that Sayid comes in, he trusts him as an old friend (obviously), no more questions asked.
Daniel. In a fedora. Playing Chopin. In love with Charlotte. Who was eating chocolate. Best.Scene.Ever.
Oh, and Desmond. Yes, there was Desmond.
That was magnificent.
Nikki, you loved this episode, but the one thought that ran through my brain was Desmond leave it alone . Can you imagine that if each of the candidates is told the truth, the LA X world goes, in Hurley's words, bloop .
I can just see Desmond approach Locke.
Desmond: Say brother, this isn't the real world you are in.
Locke: Really? Where am I in the real world?
Desmond: Uh, you're dead.
Locke: Thanks, but no thanks.
Or even Sayid.
Desmond: Nope, Nadia is dead in the real world. Why do you have that angry look in your eyes?
Okay, and just who is Ms Hawking? A manifestation of the island? Given she knows even in alternate realities what is going on, she sounds so much like the Prophets in Deep Space Nine.
Ha, I nailed it a couple of episodes ago.
No question now that the Island world is bleeding into the Flash-sideways world.
Awesome episode.
Hey, did anybody else think like me that when Demond was simultaneously in the MRI chamber in the Sideways world and the EMP chamber in the Island world, he was going to wake up in each place switched?
Meaning, he'd wake up in the Sideways world saying, "Where am I? Just a second ago I was locked in a room on an Island."
And vice versa?
I haven't gone back to rewatch but wasn't Desi wearing a red shirt/jacket when he sat next to Jack on the plane in the "LA X" episode??
Great episode, I'll re-comment in the morning
My favourite bit:
Charlie: I open my eyes and this sodding idiot is standing there asking if I'm OK.
Hahahahahahhah!
Awesome episode! Desmond's eps are always knockouts!
NIKKI- When Minkowski told desmond that there are lots of women available in town, I thought you must be saying "I'll be your companion!" to your TV set LoL
Desmond was totally trying to put some moves on Claire, which is weird because to me it would feel wrong to be flirting it up with a girl who is clearly preggers. then again, it's Des, so maybe he was just trying to be nice.
Jack's hair got SO grey! Wow! he is slowly morphing more & more into Christian!
I really hope Desmond's consciousness is the same, from universe a to universe B. So...is he gonna find all the sideways-Losties & tell them what's really going on?
I haven't the foggiest idea what Widmore's up to, but I'm glad we're cranking up the juice on the electromagnetic anomaly business. It's the key to the time travel and alternate universes and what's more I think the crazy bastards are at least pseudoscientifically RIGHT. (also: desmond as donnie darko? discuss.)
I'm pinning a lot on the conversations w/ Eloise and Daniel tonight. Speaking of pinning, when Des first met Eloise back in S3 and they had a similar "follow the path the universe has set for you" bit, Eloise's pin was a celtic knot or an ourobouros or something, an infinite loop. Tonight, in the parallel universe, her pin was two parallel lines.
I have no idea why Des wants the manifest but my fiancée thinks it's to pair up Charlie w/ Claire.
It seems in the alternate world that each character gets what they want most.
Ben gets Alex to succeed;
Jack gets to be a good father;
Sayid knows Nadia is alive;
Jin and Sun escape from Mr. Paik;
Desmond gets Mr. Widmore's respect;
Daniel gets to be a musician;
Locke gets Helen;
Hurley is lucky;
etc etc.
But each wish fulfillment requires something else be sacrificed. Desmond does not get Penny:
Jack does not end up with Kate; Locke does not find destiny;
Ben does not rule;
etc. etc.
But once they start to move towards the object of pure love, like Charlie said, then it looks like this alternate world will implode. If MiB escapes the island, then it seems the real world will cease to exist, but the alternate world will continue. But if Desmond gets the candidates to wake up to the reality of "true love" then LA X will cease to exist. Then what? If MiB escapes, then neither world will exist. Can this truly be the end of LOST?
Nice DS9 reference Fred!
Definitely not the best Desmond episode. I was thrilled to see Dan for at least a little bit, and his journal, but I am getting tired of Dominic Monaghan's attempts at playing a character way removed from Merry/loveable Charlie. He's the most annoying character on Flashforward, and the FS Charlie is a little too much like Simon.
Most interesting part of the episode: when Des asks for the manifest. So what do the writers do? End title and credits. I wonder how long we'll have to wait to see the next installment of this story.
I had this weird theory that the two Desmonds -- FS and OT -- somehow got switched after the big loud machine thing. But my kids talked me out of it, so now I think there is one Des who is aware of both timelines (like in The Constant).
I recently found out I will be out of town during the finale, and won't be able to watch it until several days after it airs :-( So by the time I get on here, there will probably be about 500 comments. So Des is not the only one who has to make a sacrifice.
Nikki, I always flash back to Buffy stuff when I see other shows like lost. I think the best example was when people were trying to figure out why Sun's father would clear out her bank account and allow the couple to think they escaped his influence instead of just killing Jin as soon as he found out about the couple. I thought about season 7 Buffy episode Selfless when D'Hoffryn (for those who don't knonw is a vengeance demon) said:
"Never go for the kill when you can go for the pain."
I think Sun's father wanted Sun to feel the pain when she defied him.
Now to Desmond and Eloise. I feel both of them are special. I think Eloise may see both time lines. Now can someone physically cross the time lines? I'm thinking it could be important if, say someone like Locke could cross into the MiB's timeline.
Ah, that was wonderful!!! I've seen it twice and might have to see it again before I crash...
I love having Des and Daniel back together! Add (still!) witchy Eloise uh, Widmore back into the mix and this is way too cool!
So where is Daniel going with this...he thinks he already set off a nuclear bomb; is he going to try to somehow undo it? No, no, Daniel, leave it be this time! Yes, we are beginning to see that many things have been lost in the AU, but so much has been preserved or gained...nice if we could somehow have the best of both worlds...Nah. Never happen.
It is great that we now have confirmation that we have been seeing bleedthrough with the different realities. And NOT PENNY"S BOAT was awesome! I also thought that Charlie was about to drown yet again...
My big nitpick in this episode is Charlie. I've always loved the character, but why is he running around so relatively OK in this ep? It's been how long since he last had a fix? Haven't the writers ever been around someone who is seriously strung out on something? NO WAY is he not sick as hell by now. It has to have been a good several hours, at least, by the end of the episode. And if he is not physically hurting yet, he should be a psychological and emotional wreck, and his #1 priority should be scoring some drugs.
I thought that Desmond's statement to him about there always being a choice hearkened back to Season 1 and Locke's discussions with him about addiction and choice.
On a completely different note, I was happy that the poor bunny didn't get stuck in the EM box as a test subject. I was kind of freaked out that they put Des in there without testing it at all first, but hey, it worked out OK. No need to torture the small furry animal.
As always, Nikki, you're fab!
Dez's gown was rising up dangerously high during the MRI! I know many of us had our heads to the side trying to get a better view!!
I too loved that angry lip quiver Dez got right before he decked Widmore with the IV pole!
That MInkowski is some kinda special limo driver. He can get 'anything' Dez's little heart desires, including a flight manifesto?! Or a companion! Ha! He's seemed to be so in on the whole game, kinda almost guiding Dez, or making suggestions.
Yes, totally Hannibal Lecterish in the MRI!
Nikki, I was wondering if Daniel's half-sister couldn't be from Eloise and another man instead of from Widmore and another woman.
At the concert didn't they say 'Milton, Penny'? (Or something like that) Have we been introduced to a Milton yet? The monk maybe? He and Eloise do have that totally Photoshopped picture together!
@Benny - yes, poor Dez is destined to always be a button-pusher!
@? - I thought the same thing - what's the deal with Jack's grey hair?
And I too am a bit confused over exactly why Dez wants the manifest.
Trace, wow.
Three succinct comments, and three home runs.
Desmond as donnie darko?
Yes. Wow.
Eloise's pin(s) - good catch.
And Des wants the manifest to pair up Charlie w/ Claire: Makes sense.
Great episode! Does anyone know the title of the song playing during the promo for next weeks episode? I love it. So does Widmore really like Desmond all along but had to push him towards the island even though it made Penny hate him so? Widmore was keeping them apart to try to save her the heartbreak?
lostfan6676277
Also, right before Dez and Charlie drove off into the water Dez said something about 'all this not being real.' Did I really hear that?!
@Susan - I'll be out of town too for the finale! Is it crazy to want to change my trip?! I'll buy it the next day on ITunes and watch it on the small screen!
Wow, so many of yall are right - it seems like the whole thing is gonna boil down to making the decision to love!
Nitenite.
I tried posting something half an hour, but the computer jammed and suddenly my post was erased. I could do it again, but it's late and I don't have the time or the energy.
I will say that I'm getting more and more convinced that the last four episodes before the finale will somehow involve the flash sideways startign to meld into the real world.Also I said in my original post to Nikki sveeral months ago, I said that I believed that Desmond would be the one who ends up saving the Losties, and now it's looking liek this is going to be correct.
Eloise continues to be the wild card in the equation. I have the impression that, just as in Flashes Before Your Eyes, she knew exactly what was going on before Desmond even arrived.uNLIKE Widmore, she knows exactly what's going to happen, but she doesn't want to try and stop it. Maybe she thinks this is the universe course correcting.
And Penny.No matter what universe they're in, she will always be Desmond's constant. I'm so glad the writers of Flashforward let Sonya Walger fly out to do this episode. I have the greatest sensation that this epic love story isn't over yer. Remember Penny knew how to find the island too.
A few more thoughts on Eloise (which is the thing most bending my mind tonight: Eloise seems to be some kind of time police in both story arcs. (When she said to desomond that his looking for Penny was a "violation", I was almost expecting her to whip out a pad and write him a ticket.) So of course she has to be aware of what is "supposed" to be happening and what needs to happen for things to course-correct. Especially since things are so completely out of whack between the two timelines. She is also apparently the only character who has any knowledge of these "rules" that she refers to. (Though Charles might know something about this, too; witness his actions in getting Daniel back to the island last season.)
I really think that somehow she, Desmond, and Daniel are the keys to straightening out the two timelines. And I was so glad to see them again!
One unrelated point, on the subject of sacrifice: has Desmond sacrificed his creativity in the AU? He was originally a painter, and now he's a businessman (evidently). He says he loves his life, has money, gets to travel. All of which is great. But does he still paint?
One more observation...
We have been noticing how certain details are slightly off in the AU (e.g. reversed roles as to who is frightened by the turbulence on the plane flight, Hurley now being lucky instead of unlucky...)
Did anyone else notice when Desmond and Charlie were driving in the car and Drive Shaft's hit song came on the radio tonight, its lyrics and music were similar to the original, but slightly changed?
I believe in the original it was "Hey you, Everybody!" Charlie kep singing this again and again in his Season 1 episodes.
But in this "Happily Ever After episode, the lyrics were more like, "All right, Everybody" or something different like that.
Whoa. I can't wait to hear what we all have to say about this episode.
Quick hits and I'll join the fun tomorrow afternoon!
I agree Nikki, I was smiling practically ear to ear for most of the episode!
I can't say I was surprised about Desmond's consciousness traveling to the AU, but it sure was an awesome way to find out with all of the allusions to the regular universe (the stadium, Widmore and the bottle of booze [wasn't that just about the same camera angle too], and Charlie's hand to the glass!).
Lastly, during Charlie's run through the hospital in the gown, was anyone else thinking, "Oh no, are we about to see Dominic Monaghan's bare ass flapping in the wind?"
See you guys tomorrow!
WV: fosithle - gangster-with-a-lisp's reassurance phrase
@ Convergence: Nope. It was "you all, everybody" both in season 1 and this episode.
Phenomenal episode, in my opinion best this season. Great post Nikki. I also really liked all the little things as well, Faraday stating he thought he already blew up a nuclear bomb. And agree with the Original timeline world is starting to bleed-over to the FS world. Everything about this episode had me at the edge of my seat.
And like many of you I'm definitely intrigued about what the "sacrifice" Desmond is gonna have to make.
@ Nurse Brian: Lastly, during Charlie's run through the hospital in the gown, was anyone else thinking, "Oh no, are we about to see Dominic Monaghan's bare ass flapping in the wind
Yes! And I wonder if he found some pants before he got outside?
Was really thinking we would see Charlies butt when he turned to walk away in that hospital gown, oh well.
The lyrics sounded the same to me: "You all everybody," which is what they always were.
I've been biting-my-nails worried because of the "lives lost" promos in which the writers are basically promising us that people we care about are gonna die. But having seen this episode, it occurs to me now that the whole island full of them could be blown away tomorrow, and their "other world" counterparts will still be alive and well. Charlie and Daniel are both alive. So I'm okay now with someone on the island dying - they'll still be alive somewhere else.
I hope.
Ah, Rainier, you're right. Thanks.
But still, the song sounded different to me somehow.<
Maybe someone with the DVDs of Season 1 can compare and double-check on this.
@Rainier: Yes! And I wonder if he found some pants before he got outside?
Considering his antics in this episode, I think this universe's Charlie would definitely just walk out of the hospital with his ass hanging out in the wind!
WV: aviodes - What a drunk Penny says to Desmond when she's feeling romantic. "ah -*vhhhh-iiii-*ooouuu, Des."
Great episode. The Alternate Unvierse finally got to be the central story in an episode :)
And while we still don't have all "the answers" surrounding it, I feel it has certainly legitimized itself now...
Eloise was the big "?" of the night for me. Everyone else was getting "wake up" moments - but shee seems to know EXACTLY what's going on! I hope they can adequately explain her character and not pull focus from our heroes too much!
Can't wait for Hurley next week! His episodes always do wonders for bringing out great character moments for everyone.
I wonder if both of these universes will cease to be unless one sacrifices itself for the other: the ultimate "course correction" for the result of The Incident...
Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god!!!!!!! That was the most amazing episode ever!!!!
So what's with Desmond going off with Sayid? First he distrusts Widmore, then later he trusts him. Then Sayid does a commando on Des's body guards, and Desmond is okay with him?
Was he lying to Zoe when he said he had a different attitude because of the sideways flash? Perhaps Desmond is not just a major player becuase he is a variable, but maybe he is a doorway for the MiB to escape. Don't know how that might work.
Perhaps, MiB could hold onto Desmond when he flashes somewhere, and he would go along for the ride. Kind of like a portkey in Harry Potter.
When they strapped Desmond in the chair, I half expected him to time travel back to the cabin. I expected him to be the eye Hurley saw when he looked through the cabin window. Maybe that will still happen if Desmond falls into the clutches of MiB. But where would the cabin be since Ilana bunred it. Maybe it could be Rose and Bernard's cabin by the sea.
@NurseBrian - your WV definition was very funny. Made me laugh out loud.
Okay, one last thing.
Has any comic book fans out there ever read the Superman story called, "For the Man Who Has Everything"?
It's about how Superman is sucked into a sort of dreamworld by one of his enemies. He thinks it is real, but soon comes to realize that it is just a dream and he must make the hard decision to leave the dream world, where everything is perfect, behind and return to reality.
This story was also translated into cartoon form in the series Justice League. I definitely recommend you all watch it. It seems fairly Lost-relevent!
It's been in my mind for the past few weeks and I wanted to share it with you. Could we might see something like this near the end? I've kinda associated it with Jack and his AU son. I hope so. Chat with you guys again tomorrow!
WV: slygawar - ...I got nothin'. ;)
Just a thought, but if someone is the true chosen leader of the Others, do they have insight into time and space? Eloise Hawking sure does. Ben also seemed to have such insight (his, I've always got a plan), but maybe that's just a red herring.
The other option is Eloise is not just an Other, but the boss of Jacob. She could be the island's avatar or spokewoman. In that case, Jacob is second down the rung, and despite his seeming knowledge really is somewhat out of the main loop. I am hoping for this second alternative, that Jacob isn't the know it all, but is himself somewhat out of the loop.
I wasn't too crazy about this episode (maybe my hopes were high when I found out it was a Desmond-one), but it picked up once Daniel came into play! I loved how he's a musician and not a scientist, but he's still so HIM.
@Nikki--don't forget, Desmond also saw his reflection at the airport.
So, does Sideways Eloise know that Daniel was the one that set the nuclear bomb plan into action? Also, in Daniel's flashback, didn't she discourage him from pursuing music?
@Genevieve V.: So, does Sideways Eloise know that Daniel was the one that set the nuclear bomb plan into action? Also, in Daniel's flashback, didn't she discourage him from pursuing music?
She did indeed discourage him from playing music in the OU. Which is really, really interesting. Eloise, as I've already said, seems to be some sort of time police. So in the AU, there evidently is not the driving need for him to become a physicist. Presumably that is because in the AU, he does not end up on the island (it is no longer there), so he doesn't go back in time, get killed by Eloise, and leave his journal there. In consequence, she does not have that "blueprint" of his life and work that she uses to keep him on track for what he must, eventually become and do.
It is also interesting that this does not seem to have had that great of an effect on her character otherwise. It seems like the events in the OU (ie, her decision to push Daniel into going to the island, and her subsequent killing of him there) would have wrought some huge changes in who she fundamentally is But if that is true, we are not seeing it here. She seems like the same Eloise we have always known.
Following “Happily Ever After”, Parallel Universe aired on the Science Channel. The current theory of the universe, M Theory, posits that there are an infinite number of alternate universes: whatever can happen, does happen! In the Lost Universe tonight, Eloise reminded us that “what happened, happened.”
Not only do we exist in these PUs in different lives because we could have made different choices, but there will be PUs where we do not exist at all. In the Lost Universe tonight, Desmond reminded us – and Charlie! – that we have a “choice, brutha, we always have a choice.”
Daniel – Widmore! Penny’s half-brother! – asked Desmond: “What if we’re not supposed to be here? What if this isn’t our life? What if it’s a different life we’re supposed to have?”
Currently, M Theory posits that is was the collision of two parallel worlds (“membranes”) that caused the Big Bang, which brought about our world as we know it. Did the implosion of the Swan Station, or Juliet setting off the hydrogen bomb, create the two worlds -- on the Island and off it in the AU?
“Parallel Universe” is scheduled for rebroadcast on Thursday, 8 April at 4 A.M. (EDT?) on the Science Channel (284 on DirecTV).
Word Verf: calder : Alexander, I noticed you haven’t been quite so mobile lately.
The bunny was named Hagstrom: Hagstrom was a Swedish company that manufactured the first ever mass-produced eight stringed bass guitar. The current M(embrane) Theory includes the String Theories.
The painting in Widmore’s office was of the Scales of Justice: the balance of a law case between its support and opposition, representing the choices made by the parties before the court.
The Scales are the symbol for Libra the seventh sign of the Zodiac. The origin of the word Libra derives from the Latin meaning "balances" or "scales." Libra is the only inanimate sign of the Zodiac, the other eleven representing either human or animal forms. In ancient times, this constellation was associated with the judgment of the living and the dead.
The twin star brooches Eloise was wearing reference the star patterns on the floor of her Lamp Post Station.
In June 2008, a U.S.-British team found a closely orbiting pair of twin stars in the Orion Nebula, where one star is hundreds of thousands of years older than the other. Astronomers say it's the stellar equivalent of identical twins being born weeks apart. Jacob and MiB? The Island and AU?
Word Verf: exhampix : Photos of Sunday’s Easter dinner (the remnants).
One of my favorite episodes so far, and one I think is finally beginning to lead to significant answers. They may really be piling on now.
I'm never any good with these, but Angstrom seems like an odd name for the bunny. It stikes me as a possible anagram, but the best I can do is: rang most but that means nothing.
I am also curious about the last name Milton for Penny. Prehaps it is a LOSt Paradise??
VW: blewo : what Los tdoes to my feeble brain
Celandine
Zari: Word Verf: calder : Alexander, I noticed you haven’t been quite so mobile lately.
Excellent!
@ Zari also @ Anonymous): The bunny was named Hagstrom: Hagstrom was a Swedish company that manufactured the first ever mass-produced eight stringed bass guitar. The current M(embrane) Theory includes the String Theories.
The bunny's name was Angstrom. This is a unit of measurement that equals .01 nanometer.
@TiaSabita: Dez's gown was rising up dangerously high during the MRI! I know many of us had our heads to the side trying to get a better view!!
Indeed! A girl can hope... ;))
@ Nurse Brian: Lastly, during Charlie's run through the hospital in the gown, was anyone else thinking, "Oh no, are we about to see Dominic Monaghan's bare ass flapping in the wind?"
Oh, dear Brian – you say that like it’s a bad thing. A girl can hope... ;}
Word Verf: miankell : “Ow! That hurts!” cried Achilles.
When Charlie appeared before Hurley at the Santa Rosa Institute, was that the Charlie from the LA X world? Did he finally find a way to skip out of his world and travel to another reality. That is a cool possibility.
Then perhaps that is the point of the children, like Ji Yeon, Aaron, and Walt. Who knows, even Zack and Emma. Did the Others know these kids could escape the bonds of this reality? If that's the case, what does that make of Jacob and MiB's contest? Jacob would not then be concerned with any good/evil dichotomy, but finding out of people can perceive this possibility of seeing through reality. MiB would say humans will never accomplish this as they are too limited in their perception. But here we have Desmond, a sort of answer to Jacob. But Ms hawking doesn't want Desmond to act on his knowledge.
In fact Desmond may not be the variable. It was Charlie which pushed Desmond to see. Jacob would never have driven Desmond into the water (also a sign of baptism--die to this world, and be reborn with a new body). Charlie is Desmond's variable.
@Rainier: The bunny's name was Angstrom. This is a unit of measurement that equals .01 nanometer.
Thanks! Angstrom works, too: the 11th Dimension in the M Theory is infinitely long, but very, very narrow across – only 1 trillionth of a millimeter away from us.
The quest for the “Theory of Everything” linking all matter and all forces led physicists deep into hyperspace, where they got horribly lost! But suddenly the way ahead became clear, when physicists postulated the existence of the M-theory in 11 dimensions that shows the five competing string theories are actually different versions of the same thing. (Physicists retrieve our more familiar 4-dimensional Universe by assuming that, during the big bang, 6 of the 10 dimensions curled up (or "compactified") into a tiny ball, while the remaining four expanded explosively, giving us the Universe we see.)
Word Verf: pacti : The desert flora on my private patio.
@ Zari: But suddenly the way ahead became clear, when physicists postulated the existence of the M-theory in 11 dimensions that shows the five competing string theories are actually different versions of the same thing. (Physicists retrieve our more familiar 4-dimensional Universe by assuming that, during the big bang, 6 of the 10 dimensions curled up (or "compactified") into a tiny ball, while the remaining four expanded explosively, giving us the Universe we see.)
Wait! Was that 11 dimensions, or 10? I'm losing count...reaching for a Unified Field Theory of Lost?
word verf: ressate - what happens when you have sex the 2nd time
Darlton’s MTV Blog is up already:
http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2010/04/06/lost-episode-611-happily-ever-after
For you, Nikki, they say: Most Valuable Player: I doubt I'm alone in my hero worship of Desmond Hume, one of my all-time favorite characters. AND All You Need Is Love: The question is, how is Sideways Desmond going to put the pieces together?
They also address Red Is Dead: Here's where I worry about Desmond — the dude's wearing a red shirt, and that's never a good sign....Come to think of it, Hurley (Jorge Garcia) has been sporting red this season, too — forgive the pun, but it's worth wondering if his days are numbered as well.
And speaking of Hurley, they preview next week: The Shape of Things to Come: Next week's episode is titled "Everybody Loves Hugo," a fond tribute to the second season's fourth episode, "Everybody Hates Hugo." But based on previews, it doesn't appear that Hurley is experiencing a love fest. In fact, the arrival of a ghostly Michael Dawson (Harold Perrineau) indicates that "people are going to die" and it's going to be Hurley's fault.
Word Verf: pretect : Prepare to protect.
Oh, Rainier! word verf: ressate - what happens when you have sex the 2nd time
Time to say "Nite, Nite"! ;))
did anybody else wondered if desmond would wake up with no clothes after that room generator thingy... finally explaining why he was naked after the hatch's implosion???
AAGH I gave up a little too soon and shut down probably just as you were posting. Anyway…
Too slow, too fast. I felt like we would need a whole other hour! But it is all coming together. As promised, the flash sideways are important to the story. They have also said that they are NOT an alternate reality, but the same reality, so I guess we’ll have to wait to see that proved out.
Parallels - I love the parallels in the episode with “The Constant” and with other episodes.
- Charlie drowning, and Desmond swimming down, and of course, “not Penny’s boat”. Did Charlie really get up or was it all a hallucination.
- Penny running the stadium stairs
- Jack, as usual, has perfect recall for people’s names and faces (he is seeing him in another life, after all)
- Desmond being Widmore’s number 1 fixer man, rather than someone unworthy of his time and his whisky. The whole scene in Widmore’s office with the MacCutcheon is practically bizzarro world. (Is that the same painting, or were we just supposed to notice the scales?)
- Pairing with Minkowski. Minkowski is also special in that he consciousness jumped too - it makes sense that he is helping Desmond. Minkowski died because he didn't have a constant (I kept waiting for his nose to bleed in that last FST scene).
- Desmond moving consciousness when in the water with Charlie, but more importantly when touching Penny, who is his constant.
- Daniel playing the Chopin piece he played as a child, and that Jack’s son played.
Sideways reality - So what do we know about the sideways? Are they what the characters always thought they wanted, not what they were supposed to have? Maybe. Eloise says this is what you wanted more than anything – to have the respect of Charles Widmore. Is that also true for
Jack – to be a father;
Locke – to have a relationship with his father;
Hurley – to be/feel lucky?
Sayid – to see Nadia?
Sawyer – to be on the right side of the law?
Kate - to not have killed her father?
I am not sure this holds up for everyone beyond the candidates, and the special ones, but it seems to have some consistency. And yet, things aren’t quite right. Like Daniel says, that wasn’t the life they were supposed to have. Is the real reality is the one where you meet your true love?
Wedding band - Still unclear why Desmond had a wedding band on the plane, but clearly is not married, and somewhere between being on the plane and getting in the limo, lost it.
Freighter folks - Notice none of the freighter folk were on the plane, but they all feature in so far - Miles is Sawyer’s partner, Charlotte works with Miles father (and noticed by Daniel), Daniel is living with Mum and Da, Minkowski, Keamy, Omar...We haven't seen the creepy doctor yet, or Naomi, but I wouldn't be surprised if they pop up.
Crossing over - Since Desmond is different, he can cross over. But so can Charlie. What helps them cross over – touching your true love or your constant? Near death experience? Charlie seemed to cross over and saw Claire when he choked on the heroin. He is the only one so far that has had a near death experience in the FST. But I guess that is what the mirror was to symbolize – they know that something is off, that maybe they are supposed to be having a different life.
So Charles & Eloise Widmore really are the power couple. They both must be “special”. She knows in both realities what is going on. Does he? So in the OT, I am even more convinced that these two did everything in their power to make sure what was supposed to happen, happened. She does it overtly with Desmond, he does it more subtly with mistreatment. We are never sure how much he really knows, but he seems to know everything Eloise knows. I wonder how they both got to the island in the first place. And why, if they were so important, Jacob never communicated with them. I guess we know now that Jacob never communicated with anyone but Richard, and I’m not so sure about that either. Has Richard had a conversation with Jacob since 1867?
Curious that Widmore says that his wife would “destroy” him, same word as Smokey Alex to Ben.
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE - @Nikki - And it seems our theory of love conquering all is holding fast!
The notebook - I was holding my breath that Daniel’s notebook would be the same, and it would have a page that said “if anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume is my constant.”!! Or at least it would have all his notations, but maybe he will just receive them.
The Manifest - I wonder how Desmond is going to get everyone from the plane together, or how he will use the manifest to show them the truth. How will he know which ones?
SAYID - BAMF Sayid is back, in a sense. I was afraid for a moment, that he killed Desmond with that neck twist move. (which would have kind of ended the show, really). I am curious why Desmond went so calmly with Sayid, where he clearly knows Widmore is on the right path. (WIDMORE IS GOOD, whatever good means.) Does Desmond truly understand that what ever happened has already happened and will always happen, and that he is the key in bringing the two timelines together? Is that what Daniel was getting at?
I have been sick with a cold (I hope) this past weekend; waited for you to post until after 11pm last night, Nikki but finally had to go to bed. Saw you were out and posted late, so while I am rushing to get ready to go to work this morning - that was all I was able to read so that part will have to wait. And I need to post my thoughts before I leave.
So if someone has already pointed out anything I am musing about below, forgive me. :)
Oh, and before I forget as I can see Marebabe's post beside this while I am typing... I soooo agree. "Watching for enjoyment" is the thing right now and boy!! is it enjoyable. LOL
OMG!!! This week's episode was fantastic. What a great bookend for the last two episodes. And another complete story to follow.... Darleton - I LOVE YOU!!!!!
Where to begin? DESMOND!! I was just elated (not that I am a violent person) when he went after Widmore. And honestly, who amongst us would not have done the same thing if we had been told we had been brought back to the island?
Widmore: "The island isn't done with you yet." Haven't we heard that one before? LOL
I was so afraid after what happened to the guy caught in the (yes, I know you could hear Justin yelling out - MAGNETS!) electromagnetic field - knowing that this could be our beloved Desmond's fate.
Widmore: "Once it's over, I am going to ask you to make a sacrifice. And I hope for all our sakes, you'll help me." And then the tale of 'sacrifice' began...and I truly believe based on what he said that Widmore knows about the Sideways world...!!
...and no usual Sideways transition sounds/music...
Then Desmond watching the Arrivals Board; Hurley and Claire - especially telling her the baby is a boy. Love that part.
George - mentioning Desmond not wearing his wedding band? He was not wearing it when he awoke and Zoe was speaking to him. Didn't he wear one before or am I just imagining that I had seen one on his finger?
Part one... tbc
Part two...
Des working for Widmore... and loving his job/life. Who would have thunk it?
Charrrrlie... coming out of the Airport Courthouse. Didn't know they'd need a courthouse that near the airport. Then Charlie talking about love .,. and his 'dreaming/halucinating' of Claire. I teared up at that point. "All that matters is we felt it."
So many overtones/references to this episode... so many.
Driveshaft! Driving past the marina where Des and Penny's boat was moored and Ben shot him. Charlie in the water-filled car. Justin called it before it happened when Charlie put his hand on the window and the words "Not Penny's Boat". I squeeed at that point. :) Desmond flashing to the point just before Charlie died.
Okay, who was expecting to see Juliet at the hospital when Desmond opened his eyes?
MRI - MORE MAGNETS!!! Did the light overhead not remind anyone of the hatch? And then Penny... :) Awwwwwww!
Look - there's Jack. Okay, back to Desmond... ! LOL
Eloise being the perfect hostess ... not what we have come to know of her for sure. She appears to recognize Desmond for a brief moment upon seeing him. Her telling Desmond that he's not ready. And then Daniel arrives... to add fuel to the fire. hahaha And another discussion about love at first sight. Only this time it is Charlotte... and Daniel.
Quantum mechanics = Quantum Leap = LOST Now I understand... Desmond is Sam!
Nice reveal - Daniel: "I don't want to set off a nuclear bomb... I think I already did."
Daniel: "No, Mr. Hume, she's my half-sister." And at the stadium, not Jack running the stairs this time, but Penny. So good to see her here at last!
Penny and Desmond's hands shaking - and ... a totally calm and assured Desmond on the island. I am going out on a limb here and saying - Desmond is now in both worlds at the same time!
Sayid: "Run." Sounded more like the old Sayid, even down to the killing technique.
Did anyone notice that the transition music between Desmond going with Sayid and waking to see Penny was our usual Island transition music? NOT a flashback OR a Sideways...!!
Final words - Desmond: (re. the passengers on Oceanic 815 -Sideways world) "I just need to show them something."
Can't wait until next week...!!!
OK, last one for this am
@Nikki said: Was it just me or did Desmond appear to be making a move on Claire? – no I think he may have unconsciously recognized her and wanted to help her. Remember, he saved her life too.
@Nikki said: he sees his reflection in the window of the police station. He also sees his reflection on the flight board at the airport.
@Nikki said: Besides Desmond, it's the two dead characters who can see that things aren't right in the sideways world. I was trying to figure out who could see and who couldn’t, and that is the difference. Do you think Minkowski can see the other side as well? But how does that explain Eloise? She seems to know everything in every reality? Does she have Daniel’s journal?
I love that Daniel has to wear his uniform in every reality – Tie, white shirt, black pants. And I think he is a smidge less geeky, but that is probably because he has not lost all his memories.
I’m with Marebabe – enjoyment over analysis.
@Benny said: 8. Jack confused as to Charlie being on their flight and now in that specific hospital. I get the feeling a whole bunch of passengers (our favorites) will somehow find themselves in that hospital. If they did a compare of manifest against patients in the 48 hours after the flight landed, Des might be able to get them all there. Claire, Kate, Sayid, Jack, Des, Charlie, Sun & Jin (I bet).
@Nikki – if only the dead in one world can see through to the other world, what about Locke and Sayid? They do not seem to see anything.
Didn’t the EM box look like Jacob’s cabin?
BTW – I am grateful to Darlton for giving me the finale for my birthday. On the 23rd I’ll be 42. I’m a number!
@DavidB226Morris said: Remember Penny knew how to find the island too. Maybe she comes out and finds him in the OT!! But she had never physically been on the island, I wonder if she again will be the one to get everyone off the island.
@ Nurse Brian said: Lastly, during Charlie's run through the hospital in the gown, was anyone else thinking, "Oh no, are we about to see Dominic Monaghan's bare ass flapping in the wind You know, someone else mentioned that this Charlie feels a little bit too much like Simon from Flash forward. Well this scene seems reminiscent of Simon escaping from the FBI. I want our old Charlie back!
Daniel is still wearing a tie, ha! Must be his real constant.
Crackpot theory: I think Eloise has been in it with Smokey all along. She's made a deal with the devil to engineer an option where Daniel is alive. Desmond can't figure out what is going on until the AU stabilizes/wins out as the true path.
Darn. Vindication for Justin. Magnets!
When I saw Charlie in the hospital gown, I thought I could see the top of an adult diaper (because unconscious people - well, you know). I thought it might be a nod to the Driveshaft diaper commercial.
This episode reminded me that we've seen alternate realities before, in Flashes, and I think it all must be connected.
Leaping from life to life, Desmond Hume...
I KNEW before this episode started it would be GREAT....What I wasn't ready for was just how utterly FANTASTIC it was....I was actually jumping up and down more than the rabbit would have....And Nikki, I kept checking your blog and checking your blog for your posting...then, I finally had to sign off because I had to go to sleep.....LOST is with out a doubt THE BEST SERIES EVER....
I've been thinking that in previous flash-sideways, the returning cast member cameos have been great for fans but not totally essential to the plot. Sawyer didn't have to hook up with Charlotte; it could have been a different woman and the episode would have still worked fine as a stand-alone (but it was a fantastic bonus for fans to see Charlotte again). Likewise, Claire's doctor didn't have to be Ethan, the translator didn't have to be Mikhail, the baddie didn't have to be Keamy. (Though great to have all of those in those roles.)
But this episode was the first flash-sideways where it really felt like all the cameos and connections were absolutely essential. It has to be Claire and Charlie, Faraday and Charlotte, Desmond and Penny. The FS world is reuniting lost loves. The lost shall be found.
Next ep has got to be Hurley and Libby!
Probably one of the best episodes since 'The Constant'. Suck clever writing to link back to ep's years ago and it all make sense !
The only comment I want to make is that the way Charles said to Des " The Island isn't finished with you let' makes me think he's known Des was special for a long long time and this could have something to do with his hatred for Des ?
Much more of a cohesive story this week IMO.
Its funny, I though BOTH Minkowski and Daniel were trying to pick Desmond up. Minkowski with the "do you need company" and Daniel with "do you believe in love at first sight" LOL
This is the first real concrete evidence of the alternate realities crossing. I gather Desmond got his heightened senses of reality when he was exposed to the hatch blast? Did Charlie develop the same skills? As I recall, he was in or very near the hatch when it exploded. That would explain this Alt Charlie recognizing the Alt reality. And also when he visited Hurley at the institution and said he's here but he's not.
What if Widmore was wrong about Desmond? He'd be BBQ'd meat and Nikki would be devastated! Oh and the sacrifice he has to make? Give Nikki Stafford up of course! And Nikki you have to make a sacrifice for the island and humanity by doing the same! LOL
I loved loved LOVED the returning characters. Although it would have been cool to see a glimpse of Daniel getting a glimpse of Charlotte instead of just describing her. Loved Desmond meeting at the stadium where he met Jack. But I somehow doubt that Penny would find some strange man coming up to her in an empty stadium at night mildly amusing and a turnon. I kept expecting her to ask him, who the hell are you and why are stalking me in the stadium? Instead of ok lets go for coffee...YAY!!...but I guess we have to suspend some disbelief for the sake of ethereal romance (just for you Nikki!)
Desmond and Charles being all buddy buddy really left a foul taste in my mouth LOL. Loved that he poured him the drink that he didn't think he was good enough for in the alternate reality.
I just find Eloise Hawking so irritating, am I the only one? She's always acting all high and mighty like she knows everything there is to know about the universe (perhaps she does, but still...) She probably wants Desmond to leave things alone since she has the husband and her son is alive, which she didn't have in the Alt reality.
So what is Desmond going to "show" the survivors to convince them he's not completely bonkers?
I loved watching this on CTV earlier. Although I still think their trailers suck compared with ABCs. Looks like Hurley will get his Libby reunion! YAY!!!
Harold C. "Rabbit" Angstrom is the main character of John Updike's series of "Rabbit" novels -- Rabbit, Run; Rabbit Redux; Rabbit is Rich; Rabbit at Rest; Rabbit Remembered.
It's a fun little allusion, but doesn't have much to do with Lost, as all those novels are about suburban people screwing around on each other.
Rainier said - have been lost in the AU, but so much has been preserved or gained.
Maybe that is it. You make choices in life, things happen in life and everytime you have LOST the possibility of something else. I always thought the people on the airplane defined "lost", but you just opened my eyes!
To Rad and JS: I went back to episode 6.1 and desmond is wearing same outfit, however, the color of suit looked a little different, but it could have been lighting. Funny that George specifically pointed out that Desmond had no ring on. He definitely had a wedding ring on when he was on the plane. Blooper?
Who was the nurse who asked Desmond about hallucinations? Wasn't she on the show somewhere?
studiorose said... I've been biting-my-nails worried because of the "lives lost" promos in which the writers are basically promising us that people we care about are gonna die.
I was worried about that too -- especially Jin and Sun. But I'm starting to think, which "lives"? Could it be that only one of the worlds gets "lost" as things sort out?
Daniel's book showing the quantum physics equations explained a lot. Not the actual equations but the concept of quantum physics - that two events can be happening at the same time! A light switch is on and off. We thought that the AU was what happened if the plane didn't crash but actually both events are happening at once.
Haven't read the other posts yet, so excuse the repeats --
Nikki, loved the recap, but was sure you'd mention Daniel's stupid skinny 80's tie that shows up in both realities! And I nearly wet myself laughing when I saw Eloise's hair.
Still waiting for my favorite Other, Tom.
Jack seems a little dense in this world, doesn't he? "He was on our plane and now he's here?" Yes, bruthah, that's what the man just said. Also, OUR Jack would have chased Charlie down the hall instead of standing there watching.
To whom does Desmond want to show the manifest from 815? I thought he said "him" (Charlie?) but Nikki said "them."
So is Penny "Milton" persona non grata in Widmore World? Is she the result of a fling?
Widmore is faking his great love for Desmond in the sideways world. I think he's one of the people who's aware of the other timeline, and that's why he's kept Desmond from meeting his wife, son, and daughter. Just a feeling, willing to be proved wrong!
essioxi: My Oxie's name is Essie.
Nice to see in this reality that Eloise allows Daniel to pursue his piano talent.
@frecklesnpt - yes, the missing desmond wedding band must be a blooper since there is not explanation for why he would have it on the plane but not in this episode.
This episode was really fun to watch, especially since we've been on a Desmond hiatus forever. It was also nice to see the inside of the main Hydra Island building. It is also the episode that finally explains the importance of the alternate reality. It's a brilliant idea that is actually very plausible in the real world. Humans have dreams of being different people or living different lives, and the great writers of "Lost" just took that feeling or emotion and made it a plot element. Genius.
The idea of having Desmond be a type of science project is really intriguing, and we now know why he is so unique due to his electromagnetic experience from the Swan. He's become an integral piece to the puzzle, and I just kept thinking he's like the Bruce Banner of "Lost", with the superiors (Widmore) wanting the inner "power" inside of Desmond and using him as a tool for their plans.
George being Desmond's driver is great since they were the two characters to experience severe flashes (other than Charlotte). George is also in the same position that he was in on the freighter = working for Charles Widmore.
I laughed out loud at seeing Widmore greet Desmond so warmly in Los Angeles. Fantastic. Desmond is worthy of Widmore's whiskey.
George (awesome) says that Desmond isn't wearing a wedding ring. In the season premiere "LA X", Desmond IS wearing a ring. What happened to it? Why did he take it off?
It's perfect for this episode to focus heavily on the Desmond and Charlie. They have one of the strongest friendships in the series ever since Desmond continuously saved Charlie's life on the Island. Technically, he's doing it again here in the alternate world by taking care of him and keeping him out of danger and from doing anything stupid.
Charlie walking through traffic represents how he is, no matter what, supposed to die young. Due to his experience on this Flight 815, he feels that he must die in order to be with the beautiful woman in his mind (Claire, duh). A similar thing happens to Desmond later in the water and in the CAT scan. It would seem that in times of extreme danger or stress our characters experience "memories" of the Island events.
Charlie's description of love is incredibly important to the series. For starters, it is another piece of evidence that our characters have some memory or recollection of the events we have seen on the Island. He doesn't see Claire physically, but in his mind as he accepts that he is dying.
Another key scene that provides evidence of this is Desmond seeing Charlie's hand pressed against the car window giving him an image of Charlie's death and the famous "Not Penny's Boat" message.
Desmond's panic button in the hospital may have "reminded" him of the EXECUTE button, as it did for me.
Other times this season that characters have had "memories" of the Island are (that I can think of at the moment):
- Claire giving birth to Aaron
- Jack looking at his kidney operation scar
In this reality, Eloise has encouraged Daniel's musical career on the piano, yet in the story we've seen, she heavily discouraged it and instead pushed Daniel on a path of events that would take him to the Island. I also love how Eloise is also messing with Desmond's head and how she knows pretty much EVERYTHING. She does the same thing to Desmond here that she did to him originally = discourage him from having a future with Penny.
What led Daniel to have his surname be Faraday? Here he is Dan Widmore. Did Eloise not want Dan to know about his "evil" father? She obviously wanted to try and avoid sending him to his death on the Island, but knew that it was inevitable and that it was his job or destiny to die in the mission to detonate Jughead.
ANOTHER recollection of the Island happened with Daniel's writing of a math equation in his journal. In our reality, Dan leads Desmond to cope and understand what's happening with him during the time flashes. He does the same thing here. Once again, Penelope Widmore is Desmond's constant. It's funny/cute that Desmond faints when meeting her.
It was awesome to see the return of the Tour-de-Stad made famous by Jack and Desmond in "Man of Science, Man of Faith".
Desmond is the ultimate key to uniting everyone in the sideways world. Widmore's plan must involve doing this very thing. How it will defeat Smokey, I dunno, but I'm damn excited.
Also, how the hell does Minkowski have access to a plane's manifest?
Oh, one more thing...I want to watch "Happy Town"...and "V" has the most annoying commercials ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtxJx2-DUVc
LOST...Baywatch style. Awesome, brotha!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtxJx2-DUVc
LOST...baywatch style. Awesome, brotha!
TiaSabita: Dez's gown was rising up dangerously high during the MRI! I know many of us had our heads to the side trying to get a better view!!
Whew... glad I wasn't the only one. I really hated the nurse for putting that blanket on him. DRAT.
Mmmmm....Desmond!
I thought the bunny was names EGGstrom - LOL!
@ Fred - I was wondering the same thing...there are some lives in sideways world that are better off - Jack and his son, Locke alive and in love, Charlie alive, Sawyer a cop,etc.
Was Eloise the woman who worked in the jewelery store when Desmond was buying the engagement ring who told him about destiny?
@Nikki - I wondered the same thing about Sayid shooting Zoe. He feels nothing so why would he let her go? And wasn't there a fourth person with them - where did he go?
Another question...when Desmond wakes up and is talking with Widmore he asks what happened. Widmore says you were shot by Benjamin Linus - do you remember that? Didn't that happen a lot longer than three days ago? It was before everyone flew back to the island.
After last night's episode I was feeling like things really will all come together and make sense :)
studiorose: I've been biting-my-nails worried because of the "lives lost" promos in which the writers are basically promising us that people we care about are gonna die. But having seen this episode, it occurs to me now that the whole island full of them could be blown away tomorrow, and their "other world" counterparts will still be alive and well. Charlie and Daniel are both alive. So I'm okay now with someone on the island dying - they'll still be alive somewhere else.
However, their lives in the sideways world are similar enough that I think they'd meet a similar demise. A character who's died in one timeline probably doesn't have long to live in the SW. Think of Mikhail getting his eye shot out. We're only a few days after the flight in the SW. Four months from now, will Charlie be dead of an overdose? Will Daniel die in an altercation? Will Nadia be hit by a car taking her kids to school?
I hate to be the Debbie Downer here, but I worry about how similar their lives are over there and how destiny could take over.
Convergence: But still, the song sounded different to me somehow.
Actually, I think it was just that we heard more of it (which... was pretty much the same thing in a loop). Usually we only hear the chorus, and this time they had to stretch it out for a long time. It sounded the same to me, but you're right; it would make sense that it would be slightly different in this world.
Didn't keep track of who said what, but whoever thinks Eloise may in fact be Jacob's "boss" -- wow! I love that idea. I find Eloise hugely intriguing, and was actually a bit disturbed when in sideways reality her power was exercised only in excoriating servants for misplaced butter knives!
Also, the thing about Charlie being near the imploding hatch -- nice catch!
Now I have to go back to the scene in Widmore's office -- I couldn't get past the hug before.
When Des wakes up on the island in the EM chamber, is he Sideways Des who trusts Widmore implicitly? Or has Widmore lost his power over Des because now he knows he'll always end up with Penny?
But then, why did he wander off with Sayid? Maybe he knows that's what he supposed to do?
sishm: drunk trying to say the word "schism."
I didn't pay any attention to Eloise's brooch! Can someone please describe it?
Thanks!
Oops, I forgot -- wonder why Minkowski is the new Abaddon?
And yes, those V promos are extremely annoying. Smugly smiling pixie-haired lady on my last nerve.
unrem: unsatisfying sleep
Sagacious: Eloise was the big "?" of the night for me. Everyone else was getting "wake up" moments - but shee seems to know EXACTLY what's going on! I hope they can adequately explain her character and not pull focus from our heroes too much!
I agree... Eloise has actually been the big "?" of the series for me. She seems to know absolutely everything, yet when we saw 40-year-old Eloise on the island, she was a very different woman. I took her reading Daniel's journal to be the thing that made her so worldly and wise, but it doesn't explain how she just knows how to appear to Desmond in "Flashes Before Your Eyes" or why she knew Brother Campbell or why she knows so much here. What's up with her?
JS said So Charles & Eloise Widmore really are the power couple. They both must be “special”. She knows in both realities what is going on. Does he? So in the OT, I am even more convinced that these two did everything in their power to make sure what was supposed to happen, happened.
I get the feeling that Eloise is just trying to protect this reality because it "happened" the way that worked out best for her. I'm not sure she is so concerned about the universe as a whole, just her universe. As someone else mentioned it would be interesting if Eloise had made a deal with MiB in order to have Daniel back.
Nurse Brian: Great Superman link!! It's also like the episode "I Will Remember You" from Angel's first season where there's a reality where he becomes human and can go in the sun and be with Buffy but he must make the sacrifice to give all of that up, only he will retain the memory of having had that for a few days and no one else (including Buffy) will ever remember the time they had together. One of the saddest and most beautiful hours of TV I've ever watched.
Sorry for the double post -- I had an error and I didn't see the first come through.
Zari: “Parallel Universe” is scheduled for rebroadcast on Thursday, 8 April at 4 A.M. (EDT?) on the Science Channel (284 on DirecTV).
Wow, thanks for this, Zari! I don't actually get that channel so I'll have to see if it's broadcast anywhere up here. I'll be on the lookout for it. :)
Zari: The bunny was named Hagstrom: Hagstrom was a Swedish company that manufactured the first ever mass-produced eight stringed bass guitar. The current M(embrane) Theory includes the String Theories.
The painting in Widmore’s office was of the Scales of Justice: the balance of a law case between its support and opposition, representing the choices made by the parties before the court.
Closed-captioning said the bunny's name was Angstrom, which is a more fitting name, I think. :)
And yes, while any scale could be taken to be the scales of justice, this one had a black and white rock on it, aligning it with the island.
Re: Penny Milton: Are we absolutely sure that the Penny on the guest list is actually the same person as Penny Widmore? It made me wonder... I love, first, that her name would be Milton (I called Paradise Lost about 5 years ago... as did many Lost fans) but it also could very well be a different Penny. (That said, I hope she really is Penny Milton.)
@JS: how about that in AU, Desmond IS married, but Widmore does not know that. He did seem a little wierd when Widmore told him how lucky he was not to be tied down with a family. Hmmm.
Regarding Penny: I would be a little leary if a stranger came up to me in an empty stadium and said "Are u Penny". Then she asks if they had met before. Duh, don't you want to know why this guy (although a hunk) knows your name? I would have asked that question before I agreed to coffee. THen again, he is a hunk. I guess it is TV
@Katowski: I usually watch LOST on DVR so I can skip the commercials. THis AM, I even said to myself that I will never watch "V" just b/c of how annoying the commercials are. Glad to see someone else agrees.
@Nikki - Is it possible Daniel is the musician who programmed the Good Vibrations key sequence in the Looking-Glass station?
Not only that, but I think he built the Lamppost as well.
Re the wedding ring - if it was a blooper, was the blooper in LA X or last night? Hmmmm. Is HIC married?
I wonder if the casting of Sundra Oakley as Charlie's lawyer was a coincidence or an easter egg/fanwank? Probably the former.
I am still worried for Frank. We haven't seen him in the sideways and the best chance would have been to have him fly 815 as originally scheduled. Hopefully, he's in the Bahamas listening to Jimmy Buffett.
Des is penniless in the MTL and Penny-less in the sideways. But not for long. Des and Penny are going for coffee. Who else might be going for coffee? Lemme think.
I think someone above mentioned this but the sound effect used right at the end when we flash to Desmond at the stadium is the old 'flashback woosh' instead of the sideways sound effect. This would have to be in there on purpose? Does it suggest that the island Desmond has now maybe been overwritten by the sideways Desmond, therefore it in fact IS a flashback?
Sooner or later, it was inevitable that we got an episode that was more Flash sideways than island. Thankfully, they made it a Desmond episode AND brought us closer to figuring out what the heck is going on. That made it go down easier. :)
@AliBags: Charlie: I open my eyes and this sodding idiot is standing there asking if I'm OK.
I loved that line too!
@Fred: So what's with Desmond going off with Sayid? First he distrusts Widmore, then later he trusts him. Then Sayid does a commando on Des's body guards, and Desmond is okay with him?
I'm wondering if post-trip to the Sideways world Desmond somehow has his precognitive abilities again, or knows, some other way, of what's going to happen, and thus knows going with Sayid is what's supposed to happen?
He seems down with helping Widmore, maybe because he's seen the endgame and knows he has to go along with it? And going with Sayid is an extension of that, even if, from Widmore's perspective, Desmond falling into FLocke's hands is the worst thing possible?
When they strapped Desmond in the chair, I half expected him to time travel back to the cabin. I expected him to be the eye Hurley saw when he looked through the cabin window.
That would have been awesome! With all this flash sideways business left to resolve along with everything else, I'm growing more and more afraid that little moments like that are going to be left to us to puzzle out.
@Nurse Brian: I have read "For the Man Who Has Everything" numerous times (and seen the stellar JLU adaptation. And, of course, the Angel episode Nikki cited). I wasn't quite sure how closely it paralleled the flash sideways story until last night, when it seemed much clearer that the flash sideways is a world which, on the surface, appears better than the island reality but really isn't (just like "FTMWHE").
If we extend the parallel: The "happy" reality Superman finds himself in (and ultimately breaking free of) is created by Mongul, the villain of the story. So perhaps the flash sideways is a result of FLocke, perhaps the fulfillment of his various promises (which has been theorized before)?
Maybe Eloise knows this somehow, but doesn't want Desmond rocking the boat, because even if the flash sideways is a world without true love, created by evil (FLocke) it's world where her son is still alive? But now, like Superman, Desmond knows the truth, and is going to work to shake everybody else out of it?
@JS: I was holding my breath that Daniel’s notebook would be the same, and it would have a page that said “if anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume is my constant.”
Me too! I was really hoping that's what it would say.
Didn’t the EM box look like Jacob’s cabin?
It did, now that you mention it, but my first thought was "oh, so they're bringing raptors to the island...".
cont...
@Al Hsu: But this episode was the first flash-sideways where it really felt like all the cameos and connections were absolutely essential. It has to be Claire and Charlie, Faraday and Charlotte, Desmond and Penny. The FS world is reuniting lost loves. The lost shall be found.
I felt the same way; I've been a bit frustrated in that the flash sideways give the creators an excuse to bring back old characters, but then do little with them beside have them wave from the flash sideways.
I mean, I love seeing characters come back, but if they're going to get someone, like say, Libby back on the show, I want her appearance to speak to the myriad questions still surrounding her, and not just have her winking at the audience from a Hurley flash sideways.
Daniel's reappearance in this episode was different though, partially because he's so much fun regardless, partially because he seemed a lot like his old self, and partially because his appearance in the flash sideways at least seemed to advance the story along.
@Ashlie: I interpreted it more as his appearance in LA X is the Desmond we know and love, the one who is married to Penny and has little Charlie who is crossing into the AU to interact with the characters, as opposed to the AU version of Desmond.
So you're thinking then, at some point we'll see Island Desmond cross physically into the flash sideways and hop on that plane to talk with Jack, all the while his counterpart is also on the plane? Interesting...
@Duke: Widmore says you were shot by Benjamin Linus - do you remember that? Didn't that happen a lot longer than three days ago?
Nah, from their perspective it was just a few days ago. The Oceanic Six get on flight 316. The morning of, Ben shoots Desmond. While he's at the hospital, the flight flies over the island and the Oceanic Six either crash on Hydra or zap to the past.
All of which means, of course, that when Eloise and Widmore talked outside the hospital in last season's finale, Widmore must have already had his team (Zoe and Neville Longbottom (thanks Ack!)) and the sub standing by.
Which also means, that when Desmond visited Widmore in London to ask for Eloise's address, he already had the plan in works, and was aware then of Desmond's uniqueness, since that would have only been, what, a week before Desmond was shot and Widmore turned up in LA?
@LatelyLost: Des is penniless in the MTL and Penny-less in the sideways.
Ha! I love it.
Ugh, just now getting to the comments of people who sat up late waiting for my post... I'm so sorry!! Next week will be much earlier, I promise. :) (I posted it at my normal time if the episode had been at 9; it's only by luck -- and American Idol -- that I actually get it at 7 and it's up so early these days.)
Chris in NF: Harold C. "Rabbit" Angstrom is the main character of John Updike's series of "Rabbit" novels -- Rabbit, Run; Rabbit Redux; Rabbit is Rich; Rabbit at Rest; Rabbit Remembered.
Great catch, Chris!! Thanks for that.
JenniferS: Nikki, loved the recap, but was sure you'd mention Daniel's stupid skinny 80's tie that shows up in both realities!
HAHA!! So funny you mentioned that because I was doing my radio station recap this morning and I mentioned the pencil thin tie in both realities, but in the SW it was leather, so, you know, 0.1% cooler. ;)
ashlie: I'm surprised that everyone seems to be dismissing the fact that Desmond is not wearing a wedding ring in "Happily Ever After" as a blooper. I interpreted it more as his appearance in LA X is the Desmond we know and love, the one who is married to Penny and has little Charlie who is crossing into the AU to interact with the characters, as opposed to the AU version of Desmond. I definitely do not think that it was a blooper at all.
This is a really good point, and something I couldn't help thinking at the end... was the calm Desmond we saw on the plane somehow yet another version of things? I just think they're far too careful to have let the wedding band slip, but I could be wrong.
Re: Eloise being Jacob's boss.
So if he's the archangel, then she's God?
Hm... well, her HAIR is certainly closer to God, that's for sure. ;) I do like this idea!!
So I've been thinking about "Not Penny's boat" and how when Naomi came to the island for a minute there it seemed like she was after Des, but then the whole mission seemed to change and they were all about capturing Ben. Maybe when she died, that part of the mission died with her? Because I bet Widmore had indeed sent her to get Desmond... because he had "work for his to do"... Hmmm.
@Teebore - yes, I think that's exactly what we saw in LA X. Remember the mysterious way Desmond was there, then he wasn't. Desmond will be the link between the AU and the island timeline. At least, that's what I think now, it could all change by next week! I just don't think the whole wedding ring/no wedding ring is a blooper, I definitely think it has more importance.
@Nikki - you certainly don't have to apologize for not putting up the blog immediately after the episode aired! Although I do admit that I spent a good hour frantically refreshing the page waiting for you post to come up!
Tremendous episode! Desmond-centric ones have always been linchpins in their respective seasons and last night was no different. Damon was right: "the conversation changes". Quick points on Some Things That Jumped Out At Me:
1) someone already mentioned this but I, too, thought that the EM room and the solitary chair set up in the middle was evocative of Jacob's cabin. I think back to Hurley peering through the window and seeing one crazed eyeball. I freeze-framed that moment and spent a lot of time trying to figure out whose it might be - and Desmond was the best guess I could come up with. Will we see that moment again soon?
2) Finally, SOMEBODY bashes Widmore in the head. THANK. YOU. That was a painfully satisfying moment. Can I see it again? *bash* Bee-yoo-tiful.
3) I thought that FST Charlie was remarkably consistent with the dark, abrasive character we saw in Season 1. All that was missing was the hood.
4) Desmond the Fixer. Wouldn't he fit right in a Pulp Fiction II? Later, Eloise skewered him with the "you have what you wanted most" line. His desperate need for approval/insecurity led him to nearly throw away everything before.
5) So, this is how the relative tranquility of the FST is shattered. Charlie "shows" Desmond ... and now Desmond wants to do the same for the other passengers of 815. Jack? Claire? Hurley? And, will it spread from there? Will Jack "show" John Locke? Interesting. Very interesting indeed.
6) We see the ubiquitous starred pattern in Eloise's brooch. Way to work it, writers!
7) Daniel! Oh, how I have missed you my geeky, multi-talented friend. Good to have your pseudo-mullet and skinny tie back. AND injecting your peculiar time-bending mojo back into our "miraculously special" game-changer, Desmond. Now, go find that firecracker Charlotte and buy her some chocolate, you rascal, you!
8) As the episode wound down, I found myself thinking of the fantastic Ben Lee song, "Gamble Everything For Love":
'Tell me are you feeling lost, have you crossed
In the places that you never knew to get through
Tell me are you gonna cry all night
Tell me the truth, and I’ll tell you the truth
If you gamble everything for love
You gonna be alright, alright'
Wow. How's THAT for some relevant lyrics?
Best. Episode. Ever.
I was freaking out while watching it. I love this show.
I think Desmond's sacrifice will be that he has to give up Penny and his son to stop MIB/save the world. Totally seems like Widmore is mostly good - just will do whatever it takes to prevent MIB from leaving the Island.
I really have nothing to add, but that at several points while I was watching this episode, I grabbed my 19" TV the way one might grab the shoulders of a person who is about to devolve into hysterics.
Yes, the episode was so good, I almost shook the hell out of my TV.
I'm not sure if I'm proud or ashamed.
@ JS: BTW – I am grateful to Darlton for giving me the finale for my birthday. On the 23rd I’ll be 42. I’m a number!
NO! You are not a number – you are a free man! And, Happy Birthday early. ;)
One more telling verse from Ben Lee's "Gamble Everything For Love""
'Tell me do you lose your way each day
Are there people you don’t recognise, do they lie?
Tell me does it make you feel too real?
Tell me the truth, and I’ll tell you the truth
If you gamble everything for love
You gonna be alright, alright'
DAMN. Desmond, they're playing your song.
Verification word - "disco": descriptive term used to describe placement of objects. "disco HERE, disco THERE".
@JS: finally, someone else who admits to the 'non-alternate' nature of the flash-sideways!
Daniel and David playing the same piece. I wondered for a bit if Penny wasn't David's mom? She would have got the tour de stade from Jack and perhaps David would have started playing Chopin because of Daniel!
I agree too with the the convergence to the hospital. At least something similar to that will happen.
@Al Hsu: Maybe by the end you'll realize that ALL the cameos HAD TO BE THEM. Right now you just take them in as a nod to fans, but it may be more important and we just don't know it... yet.
@ashlie: Given that AU Des (w/o wing) remembers Jack from the plane, I doubt that they were different occurrences of Des. I think props made a mistake when setting up the Des accessories and put on the band, or they forgot to remove his real one.
Did anyone else have a Beatle's Abbey Road moment when Charlie walked across the street after being "sprung" from the hoosegow? Or was it just that I had watched the first half of American Idol before switching over to Lost and they were covering Beatle's songs?!
Reading. Reading. Reading.
Benny said -- @Al Hsu: Maybe by the end you'll realize that ALL the cameos HAD TO BE THEM. Right now you just take them in as a nod to fans, but it may be more important and we just don't know it... yet.
I totally agree!
@Benny Maybe by the end you'll realize that ALL the cameos HAD TO BE THEM. Right now you just take them in as a nod to fans, but it may be more important and we just don't know it... yet.
Oh, how I hope you're right!
Teebore your comments about the dead characters in the FS are spot on. Sure, it's nice to see some of them in different surroundings, but they don't really serve a purpose. Dan was definitely an exception, and seeing him again made me realize how much I miss his character.
@latelylost: HIC is indeed married. This could be prop error... either 1) forgot to take it off, or 2) put the Desmond wedding ring on by accident.
@Evan: just listened to it, it the hissing flash-sideways sound. There's no sound when we cut from handshake to Des waking up.
Haven't seen any comments on this yet (sorry if I missed it)-- has anyone explained the connection between Des & Penny agreeing to meet for coffee in SW world and Juliet's dying words to Sawyer?
I remember that Juliet's "it worked" was said along with something about getting coffee-- but I don't remember Juliet's specific words.
Nikki said: "...this one just filled me with so much happiness...you know that scene at the end of How the Grinch Stole Christmas where his heart grew three sizes? That’s how my chest felt at the end of this episode."
YES!!! OMG...my heart was all a-flutter throughout this episode!! Well, it started as soon as Desmond flashed over to sideways world. So many surprises! Charlie's ALIVE! Minkowski's ALIVE! Daniel's ALIVE! Widmore & Desmond are BUDDIES! Eloise & Charles are happily married! Daniel & Penny are their happy children! And...Charlie & Claire! Daniel & Charlotte! DESMOND AND PENNY!!!
KA-POW!!! (Heart exploded)
Thanks, Lost! That was awesome!
So I was mistaken about Desi wearing a red shirt in "LA X". My apologies. Did anyone else get a Matrixy vibe in this episode? When Charlie was all "this isn't real" and trying to tell Desmond that there's another world out there for them to see, I thought about Trinity and her chat with Neo early in the Matrix 1. I'm half expecting Desmond to walk up to Jack in the next episode and say "Take the blue pill, and the story ends. Take the red pill, and you stay in Wonderland..."
I also thought of Family Man with Nicholas Cage. He is given a glimpse into what his life might have been like had he chose to stay with his college sweetheart. He gets a taste of true love after a rocky start (and the obligatory hijinx that follow) and is then sent back to reality.
He has now tasted and felt love and decides to change his entire life, starting with tracking down Tei Leoni and trying to win her back. Sort of like Desmond and Penny.
This is how I think LOST works. So far we've been given a number of metaphors: eye opening, mirrors, pendulum, scales. All of these imply perception and mirror worlds or balance.
At the centre of the pendulum swing is the island (see Lamppost). When Desmond turned the key, or Faraday got the bomb exploded, it created in the environment of the island's EM a sub-world (alternate world). These worlds depend on someone perceiving its real--if it appears real, then it is. This goes back to Bishop Berekley and his argument that the world continues because God sees it at all times.
Once someone, like Desmond begins to realize the world is not real, then it dissolves, and you fall back to the island world. In short, once someone realizes it's all a dream, you wake up (very Borgian). In other words, the pendulum swings back.
LOST seems to be heading to either a new world in which all wishes are answered, or one in which not even time exists (scales with a black rock balanced with a white rock, another metaphor). In such a world, Jin and Sun would escape Mr. Paik AND be married; Locke has Helen AND destiny, etc. The island needs a balance, a MiB and a Jacob to be the pivot point of the scales (their position is much like the Dark Tower in Stephen King's novel). A new world in which all wishes are answered needs to be created, so no one ever questions its reality. Love is the answer to maintaining the reality. Such a reality would allow knowing beings like a Ms Hawking. They are variables, and likely Desmond will become one too. On an earlier thread, I suggested the show will end with Jin and Sun marrying. It would fit such a new world. But who would be the new Jacob? My guess is Desmond.
"Rabbit" Angstrom is the main character in a series of John Updike novels, the first of which is "Rabbit Run." Not sure what it has to do with Lost, but there you go...
"The nurse asks Desmond if he has any metal on him before doing the MRI, and that’s the same questions that guy was asking Widmore before they put Desmond in the chamber."
AND...when the MRI tech told Desmond he'd have to PUSH a BUTTON, did you notice Desmond's face freak out? Like he had a bad sideways memory of epic button-pushing in his past? And the guy says pushing the button would reset the whole thing and they'd have to start all over again...like when the timer in the hatch got to 10800!!
Gah! Gone for the morning and you people pass 100 comments! I better get cracking!
Also, is anybody else having wacky things going on with their comment's page? It's formatted all weird and I can't subscribe by e-mail. I've tried refreshing multiple times. Weird.
Susan said: "...but I am getting tired of Dominic Monaghan's attempts at playing a character way removed from Merry/loveable Charlie. He's the most annoying character on Flashforward, and the FS Charlie is a little too much like Simon."
Wow...yeah...I, too, saw "Simon" as soon as I saw Charlie in this episode...and Simon is totally an ass in FlashForward. But, did ya notice? Here, in Lost, "Simon" gets to HAVE a "flash forward"...which he DIDN'T have in FF...and in it, finds TRUE LOVE!
Hmmm...could Lost and FF merge into one reality? After all, Penny's there, too? LOL
@JackFan - I mentioned the coffee thing in my post this morning. Glad you picked up on it to.
@Susan - re the appearance of bygone characters. Maybe the purpose of all the appearances is still unfolding. Charlotte's appearance in Sawyer's episode could have been a throwaway, but it was slightly grounded by her connection to Dr. Chang, and his connection to Miles. Then, last night, she re-emerged as Daniel's "It was like I already loved her.". Having that scene - Daniel spying Charlotte eating chocolate - would not have had the same impact, at least for me. So we saw Charlotte earlier, to prepare us.
Neville Longbottom. BWHAHAHA. Although true HP geeks would scream "movie contamination" because book Neville is blond. I see the baby goon in those Fiber One commercials almost every day and keep looking for his semi.
Sorry, can't remember who brought up Penny as David's mother. I noticed last night that Widmore does have startling blue eyes. I still think David's mother will be Juliet and that Daniel will be David's piano teacher. Even money on whether Ana Lucia or Naomi is Miles' girlfriend. (And Frank is still nowhere in the alt. *sniff*)
I will preface this with the statement that I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED this episode. But if something ON ISLAND doesn't happen soon, my husband is going to bolt. He has had it and hates all the AU fluff. He hated last night's episode. He's an action man.
I for one am not upset at Charlie's attitude or behavior. He really was acting a bit strange when 815 first crashed in the first season. I remember him meandering around the beach in a complete daze and just barely missing getting hit by burning/falling Oceanic debris. That's how he was acting when he got out of the courthouse and wandered across the street. Totally in a daze. Not caring if he lives or dies. And he WISHES he had died. He even told Jack on the AU plane that he was supposed to die.
I have watched the episode twice now and am struggling with the ending. Desmond awakens in the EM box and is completely calm and seemingly on board with Widmore. I am fine with that. I think Des knows that these two universes need to be just one. Then he wanders off with Zoe and the goons and runs into Sayid. Does he know what he's doing heading off with Sayid? Should we be worried? My issue is with the last scene. Which Desmond is with Sayid and which Desmond is waking up from the fainting spell with Penny? Has he traded consciousness? Before, it made sense that he was experiencing the AU because he was unconscious in the EM box. But now he is walking and talking with Sayid in a zombie like state. With Penny, he wakes up and says "What happened?" Just like after Sayid woke up. This reminds me of the two times Des was shown in a mirror. Is this to signify that BOTH Desmond's are in the AU at some point? CONFUSING. But I can't wait to find out.
One more thing. All these AU losties will have to meet up somewhere. Like many of you, I believe it to be in the hospital. Sun and Jin must be on their way there already, but how and why will the rest get there? I thought Claire was in a different hospital with Ethan Goodspeed. Also, if love is the answer, our pairings are: Sun/Jin, Daniel/Charlotte, Charlie/Claire, Rose/Bernard, Sayid/Nadia, Hurley/Libby, Richard/Isabella, and now it gets fuzzy...if Juliet was right in LA X, then I do forsee she and Sawyer hooking up. That only leaves Jack/Kate. She did give him that look when she was in the cab at the airport. But I can't see how that will happen. But are they our Adam and Eve? Maybe. MUCH WORK FOR DARLTON TO TIE UP IN THE LAST 7 HOURS. Sniff Sniff. Lovin' the ride.
I was just thinking about last week's promos for this week's episode...with the Scottish version of "Amazing Grace" playing on bagpipes...
Of course, some of the lyrics: "I once was LOST, but now I'm found..." (WHOA!) And, "was blind, but NOW I SEE." (Could this describe Desmond's coming out of a murky, angry confusion, and now "seeing the light"...sensing the big picture...knowing there's a beautiful, worthwhile ending coming, and having the faith to know it's within his reach??)
BOOM! Lost! You're incredible!
Word verif: "rowlessi" - Yoda is up a creek, without a paddle.
Amend to my last idea. We've had a lot of talk about explosions on this show. First the minor explosion of the Swan with dynamite, then Desmond's turning the key, and finally Faraday's hydrogen bomb. But we haven't had the big one yet, meaning the volcano. Perhaps that will blow the island apart and end its influence.
Jacob seems more in my estimation to be manipulative than ever before. He brings people to the island, and watches them die, all in the name of his experiement. He probably brought MiB to the island as well. His Others seem to have no ethical quandary about selecting some individuals and disposing of others (historically familiar). We've seen in Room 23 the message, God loves you as he loved Jacob. So Jacob is out of favour. Is Jacob a false Messiah?
Convergence...haven't read all the comments yet...somebody has probably corrected you already...but...
In the Driveshaft song, the lyrics are (and always were): "You all everybody...you all everybody".
Yeah, the words don't make a lick of sense, but there it is.
Penny Milton = Paradise Lost; In this AU Penny is Desmond's lost paradise - just another way to look at it.
Erin said: "Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god!!!!!!! That was the most amazing episode ever!!!!"
My sentiments, exactly.
Okay, I'm not really here yet. Actually, I'm rewatching the show right now. Widmore is whining, actually whining, about losing his son here on this island, how he's lost his daughter and she won't talk to him, and he's never seen his grandson. Blah, blah, GAG. Did I miss something in just this part?? From what I've seen, Widmore lost EVERYTHING, except his money, in his all out, everything goes, desire to CONTROL this island. He didn't lose anything! He GAVE IT UP. Where am I wrong? Anyone, Please?
WV: ingens: The motorized part of a vehicle that keeps it running?
@JS: Didn’t the EM box look like Jacob’s cabin?
Yes, it really did!
@asiancolossus: Did Charlie develop the same skills? Whoa! That is such a good thought!
When Widmore was talking to Des I was struck by how VERY similar he and Ben are - both sacrificingfamily, etc for the Island.
I have always like Desmond, but have never found him particularly my brand of palatable. But not last night. AU Desmond=yum.
The absolutely saddest part of this episode was gloomy Charlie. I want redeemed Charlie back, even if it does mean he had to die :(
Charlotte eating chocolate brought to my mind her comment right before she died about not having chocolate before dinner.
HOW does Eloise KNOW everything?!
My mind is blown. I can no longer form coherent thought, although I am enjoying reading everything you all have to say :)
@Gracie: Nah, you didn't miss anything, that's just Widmore blaming others for his problems and not himself.
It's no different that what Ben did for a long time: he blamed Widmore entirely for the death of Alex, before ultimately realizing that he did have a chance to save her and chose not to take it.
Widmore has yet to realize that all he's lost, he lost BY CHOICE.
Pausing again because this bothered me last night: Two things actually. Where do we know the woman who walks Charlie out to Desmond? No, I haven't read a single thing on here yet because I was busy keeping promises. Sorry to one and all. Secondly, AFTER Charlie walks across the street, the camera stays on Desmond, but in a fade in the background behind Des there is a man. He shakes his head like he's puzzled at Charlie's stupidity, but there is something else about him, and the cameraman almost MAKES SURE that you see him. Did anyone else notice that? Is he somebody?
@Gracie et al - If we think of Widmore goal as keeping Smokey on the island, then all his actions make sense. He let things happen or pushed things to happen so that we would end up at this time and place and he would be in a position to save the world from Smokey on the loose. I think we should assume he knows as much as Eloise Hawking did/does, and all his actions are in service to the island, and as a result, mankind.
- He was bad to Desmond, which resulted in Desmond doing the sailing race and ending up on the island.
- He alienated his daughter as that would push her eventually towards Desmond.
- He sent the freighter to kill Ben. He may have believed that though Ben thought he was working on behalf of the island, Ben really wasn't. He ultimately may have been trying to prevent Ben from killing Jacob. That actually would explain a lot of his and Eloise’s behavior towards the now weak and seemingly easily manipulated and manipulatable Ben
- He stayed separate from Daniel so that he could fund his research, and put him on the freighter so he could meet Desmond and help Desmond fulfill his destiny, as well as send him back to 1977 so that he could somehow cause the bomb to explode.
- He became rich so he could fund the activities necessary to serve the island – freighter, fake plane at the bottom of the tranch, new submarine with cool equipment
We may not agree with his tactics (I don’t there any of the player’s tactics hold up to scrutiny without context), but if his destiny is to put things in place in order to prevent the end of civilization as we know it, then obviously nothing is too outrageous. Only a person with a lot of money and power could even come close to pulling off any or all of the things he has done. Maybe these were his sacrifices.
@GracieTeebore: Wdimore realizes he's lost everything by choice.
As he said to Desmond, sacrifices need to be made. He made his sacrifice and the result was the loss of his son, the loss of his daughter's love, the loss of knowing his grandson.
He lost all of this as a result of making sacrifices for the island. Question is, will Desmond chose to make his sacrifice?
@Gracie: You probably don't know her from anywhere else to be honest. She did the Survivor Cook Islands. Here are her credits.
As for the other guy. That's just extras placement. He was centered by the director to fill the void left by the non-centered Desmond. We over-analyze anything in Lost but if you pay attention like that to other shows and movies, you'll see used often.
@Nikki: Every flash-sideways has the moment of looking in a mirror; in Desmond’s, he sees his reflection in the window of the police station.
I have to comment on this part after seeing it twice even tho I still haven't read all the posts. In every other 'mirror moment' it seems like there is a pause. Where that person is kinda like, "Wha? Wait? What just happened? What did I just see and can I see it again?" I was waiting for Desmond's moment, but didn't see it. He walked up to the building, took off his sunglasses, and looked at the mirror. But there was no "Wha?" moment. So, what did I miss? Help me out here Folks. Long past couple days.
@JS: He sent the freighter to kill Ben. He may have believed that though Ben thought he was working on behalf of the island, Ben really wasn't . Perhaps, Widmore knew Ben was not acting for the island when he was tested with killing Rousseau and Alex.
But did the message to kill Rousseau come from Jacob? Jacob just seems to let people go on about their business until either they discover the good in them, or die trying. So why would Jacob want Rousseau killed? It makes no sense.
But then there were all the lists Richard carried from Jacob. These may be lists to protect certain individuals, like the one Jacob sent to Dogen. But if someone wasn't on the list, and they arrived before Dogen, he'd likely have killed them. (A point I think Ilana is guilty of with the Ajira passengers). So Rousseau might not have been on any list by Jacob, and the Others would have interpreted that negatively.
But lists are ambiguous on the island. Danny Pickett noted Jack wasn't on Jacob's list. If Ben was working for himself, or deluded into thinking he was working for the island, then there would be no match-up between what Jacob wanted and what Ben thought Jacob wanted. Ben was on his own, like all those before him.
So where did Rousseau's name come from? Was Widmore as deluded as Ben was? Notice, this event occured when Eloise was off the island. If she had a more direct link to Jacob, then her absence would have severed that tie. Widmore was working on his own wit, and Richard was merely observing and advising. By not killing Rousseau, Ben would have acted in a way Jacob wanted. Which may be why when he was stabbed by Ben, Jacob had hoped he would have changed his mind. Jacob had hopes for Ben, but, without guidance, Ben was truly lost.
In the end, I think the list came from Richard, only. Much as Locke got the personel file from Richard outlining Sawyer's past. Locke merely had to put 2 and 2 together to arrive at a plan. Basically, Jacob couldn't be bothered, and Richard tried his best.
Ah, Jacob, don't you get it. No parent just let's their children wander about in the vague hope they'll figure out what is right and wrong, or how to get on in life. Bad parenting, Jacob.
@Gracie/Nikki: I agree with Gracie, we don't really see him have any moment. I think his reflection moment was in the Oceanic arrival screen. He was pensive when Hurley distracted him.
The door window was more akin to Sayid's reflection in Nadia's front door. They weren't paying much attention to that reflection, my opinion.
@redeem147 said...
"Leaping from life to life, Desmond Hume..."
I knew you might like that one. This also means that we now have a 'candidate' to play Sam, if the series is reworked OR they ever decide to make a movie. :)
"And I'm thrilled you survived, Desmond. When I give you a job to do I EXPECT YOU TO DO IT."
Me: Bite me. He is so loathesome in every life. In every flash. In every side. What a little man! He better not be the hero cause I just can't stand him. I can already here everyone in here jumping on the "Father Issues" of this show, but he reminds me of EXACTLY what my father was like AND why I couldn't stand him!!!!
I'll get off my soapbox now. Thank you.
This episode is shaping up to be very much like last Season's arc with Locke trying to collect the Oceanic 6. There Widmore gave Locke Abaddon to serve as his driver and to get Locke wherever he wanted to get. Here George Minkowski serves that role.
Locke gets into an accident, which leads to his meeting Jack at the hospital. Charlie causes Desmond's car to go into the drink, leading to Desmond meeting Jack once more.
In the end, Locke did manage to get the Ocenic 6 to return, with some help from Ilana, and including Ben. Will Desmond manage to approach all of the Oceanic 6 with more success than Locke initially did? And what does it mean "get them together" in this LA X world? Will merely showing them true love affect them and end the spell they are under?
Clues may be found in the parallel between Locke's quest and Desmond's quest. Oh, yes. Locke did find his true love, but Helen had died of an aneurism. Desmond did find his true love, and is now going to have coffee with her. But there is that sinister Eloise in the background telling Desmond to just enjoy this life. Much as Ben was the sinister figure behind Locke's search. I suspect further parallels.
Again, I repeat, I have NOT read anything yet, but the look on Eloise's face when she first sees Des is THE WHOLE STORY. You can see a little fear peaking through there. Recognition. "Yikes, what are YOU doing here?" That woman knows what happened, why, and exactly what she expects to happen next. She IS the story! IMHO!
@Fred - I think the only thing we may have ever seen from Jacob is lists, and I didn't even believe that until we saw the note in the ankh from Jacob to Dogen. I don't think we can believe every list as truly from Jacob. That said, I do not think anything else has been from Jacob. He has been completely hands off. So the order to kill Rousseau and the baby probably was purely Widmore. But look at what that resulted in. though it gave Ben his one familial relation, her eventual death is what made him vulnerable to Smokey's manipulations. SOOO, the only ones I think are really working on behalf of the island with any true knowledge of what to do and why are Eloise and Charles.
And, if I ever get that rich, if I ever get that petty, if I ever get that anal, somebody just shoot me. PLEASE! What a bore!
VW: reles: what you do when you let go?
I don't know if I saw it mentioned(I think I read all the comments) or maybe it's just assumed and I am stating the obvious(and apologies on both counts), but could it be that the EM box looks like the cabin because Widmore plans to trap the MIB inside it? And perhaps that's what the cabin was for in the first place?
This morning I wrote this with my tongue in my cheek... "Quantum mechanics = Quantum Leap = LOST Now I understand... Desmond is Sam!"
I have not been able to get this out of my mind all day. Then I looked up the words to the opening for Quantum Leap - with phases like "...facing mirror images that were not his own" and "....striving to put right what once went wrong". I am now more than a little certain that, even in a small way, last night's episode especially is paying homage to QL.
Read this and see what you think...
"Theorizing that one could time travel within his own lifetime, Doctor Sam Beckett stepped into the Quantum Leap accelerator - and vanished. He awoke to find himself trapped in the past, facing mirror images that were not his own, and driven by an unknown force to change history for the better. His only guide on this journey is Al, an observer from his own time, who appears in the form of a hologram that only Sam can see and hear. And so Doctor Beckett finds himself leaping from life to life, striving to put right what once went wrong and hoping each time that his next leap... will be the leap home."
Charlie: I open my eyes and this sodding idiot is standing there asking if I'm OK. < LMFAO! Echoes what Jack said to Sun last week. Something along the lines of nobody trusting him anything. LMFAO!
But then, why did he wander off with Sayid? Maybe he knows that's what he supposed to do? <<< Yes yes yes! I love this theory so much. It'd make sense that he's so happy about everything because him being conscious in both worlds lead him to see the future... OR at least up until the point that he has to do what he has on the island AND get reunited with Penny at the end.
Penny having coffee with Des. Didn’t you hear her ask HAVE WE MET BEFORE? She has knowledge of the other world as well just as our heroes. It's not a screw up that she was all but too happy to talk to some creepy dude while she's doing tour de stade.
I’m thinking here's how it goes. Island desmond inside cage. AU desmond looking for manifest. Island desmond in the plane with Jack AND with a ring. He finally is able to use his powers to work WITH him to fulfill whatever he has to do.
I don’t know why people are considering the wedding ring thing to be a blooper. Damon RT’d that same question on Twitter which means it is NOT a blooper. LOST had been mostly careful with these things all six seasons and to let something this big SLIP with only a few remaining episodes left? NO. I don’t think so.
I'm sure somebody has already addressed this, but I don't get it, will keep reading, but hope somebody explains. In life as we know it (I mean in REAL life as we know it), what happened to Charlie and to Daniel would be like, say, a dream. Wouldn't we call it that? But, Desmond has had one too now, inside the CAT scan. Still, they are like, if not dreams, unknowns. Ships passing in the night, if you will.
How did we get from this, with Daniel, to setting off nuclear bombs, to "What if this wasn't supposed to be our lives?" Maybe I'm having a real slow brain connection day, and I know Des has seen Penny now, but why is he falling for these dream things? Why do they matter to HIM? What am I missing cause I'm LOST.
@Nikki: When I saw this the first time last night, I had all kinds of ugly words going through my head about the guy who died (of SuperFry) that I thought you were going to use to describe him. I got this from your description of Claire's beloved, innocent, little bambino in the island crib.
And then you come up with "BBQ boy’s body". Didn't see that one coming. Good laugh!
Oh Nikki!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you. It went right over my head so far, which didn't matter, cause it could have bit me in the nose, and I still did not see it. I don't think I was EVER gonna see it. Then you said: "Besides Desmond, it's the two dead characters who can see that things aren't right in the sideways world." And I'm like "Duh!?!?!" all over the place. Sometimes it's right there, but I don't see it, or can't grasp it. Which is why I come here. Thank you, Dear.
Nikki said: Why exactly is Widmore showing Jin all of this? Originally it seemed they just wanted him there so they could figure out where the EM pockets were on the island because Jin had made the maps. But now… why is he still there?
I thought I had this one, but maybe not. My interpretation was that as long as he's there, he's NOT someplace else. That's one less person Widmore has to contend with, which is smart, and I never give Widmore credit for anything.
@Nikki: Is Eloise like Desmond? Can she see other worlds? Is she aware of what’s happening? In the original world, Desmond really did want Widmore’s approval more than anything. Now he’s got it… but he doesn’t have Penny. She points out that he got what he wanted, but he lost what he had (to quote Gavin Friday).
Yes. Yes! YES!!! She holds the key!
whew - my comment's form is back to normal. I'm so far behind...again, and can't stop to catch up now. Just wanted to start getting the e-mails :)
My brain is so full from last night I really cannot formulate anything cohesive.
@SenexMacDonald: I am curious why Desmond went so calmly with Sayid, where he clearly knows Widmore is on the right path.
Would you refuse to go with Sayid, having just seen him kill two guys, and him with a gun in his hand? Either Des knows EXACTLY what he's doing, or he is just going with the flow, and trying to figure out exactly what is happening.
@ asiancolossus: I loved watching this on CTV earlier. Although I still think their trailers suck compared with ABCs. Looks like Hurley will get his Libby reunion! YAY!!!
Was that in the CTV trailer? Because after last night, with all of the lost loves coming together in the flash sideways, I started really, really hoping that this would happen. Hurley is my favorite character on the show; I absolutely love him, and I hated it when Libby died. That was my all-time least favorite lost moment. It was so, so sad. And of everyone on the island, Hurley most deserves to have something good. So it sucked that it was taken from him.
Its funny, I though BOTH Minkowski and Daniel were trying to pick Desmond up. Minkowski with the "do you need company" and Daniel with "do you believe in love at first sight" LOL
LOL! Me, too!!!
@Rad: I'm half expecting Desmond to walk up to Jack in the next episode and say "Take the blue pill, and the story ends. Take the red pill, and you stay in Wonderland..."
I really like your comparison of Lost to The Matrix. I, too, am half-expecting this...
@Lisa I for one am not upset at Charlie's attitude or behavior.
I'm not either, except for the fact that he has not yet started freaking out about scoring some heroin, or going into withdrawal. As with The Moth and the episodes that followed, I don't think the writers have ever seen someone coming off of heroin. Or any other highly addictive drug...
@redeem147: When I saw Charlie in the hospital gown, I thought I could see the top of an adult diaper (because unconscious people - well, you know). I thought it might be a nod to the Driveshaft diaper commercial.
Actually, I noticed upon rewatching it that Charlie has some dark undies under that gown. (you can see them through the gown in some places. Perhaps the elastic is white, and that is what you are seeing.
LOST seems to be heading to either a new world in which all wishes are answered, or one in which not even time exists (scales with a black rock balanced with a white rock, another metaphor).
I think it is headed to some middle ground.
@Nikki: So… if Daniel is Eloise and Charles’ son, and he was born before Penny, then it means Widmore had an affair with a woman and Penny was the result. Did Eloise take him back after it happened, or did things happen differently? Did he get Eloise pregnant first, then have another wife, then left her for Eloise?
Me: This has hurt my head since I saw it. I understood that Ellie was preggers on the island with Daniel who was/is Charle's son. Penny has ALWAYS been a Widmore. So at first I'm thinking Penny took her mother's maiden name, Milton, I think. And all that works right up until Daniel says she's his half-sister. IF anything in the original story line IS actually true, then Penny has to be the daughter of Charles Widmore. If, after all this time, she's actually not, that gives questions to this show that I don't want to think about. And we know Ellie and Charles are the parents of Daniel. The only possibility left is that Penny is the daughter of Charles and an unknown woman, but because her name is Widmore, that wouldn't make sense. She'd need a back story just to explain that. Oh hell wait. Do we know who the parents of Desmond are? His mother in particular? I just had a very bad thought. I think I need to lay down.
@Fred: In the end, Locke did manage to get the Ocenic 6 to return, with some help from Ilana, and including Ben. Will Desmond manage to approach all of the Oceanic 6 with more success than Locke initially did?...Clues may be found in the parallel between Locke's quest and Desmond's quest. Oh, yes. Locke did find his true love, but Helen had died of an aneurism. Desmond did find his true love, and is now going to have coffee with her. But there is that sinister Eloise in the background telling Desmond to just enjoy this life. Much as Ben was the sinister figure behind Locke's search. I suspect further parallels.
Do you think, then, that Desmond's sacrifice is that he, like Locke before him, will have to die? I also kind of suspect this but hope it isn't so.
@Marebabe: I'm in Ohio. Where are you guys seeing this? I'm looking and not finding it. And I feel like I'm getting robbed here.
"Tonight it was Michael Emerson saying, “Mmm... cake!”
@scrvet: Daniel's book showing the quantum physics equations explained a lot. Not the actual equations but the concept of quantum physics - that two events can be happening at the same time! A light switch is on and off. We thought that the AU was what happened if the plane didn't crash but actually both events are happening at once.
Yes! This is something I should have caught but didn't. I,too, have recently come around to seeing both "realities" as being "real."
@JS: If we think of Widmore goal as keeping Smokey on the island, then all his actions make sense. He let things happen or pushed things to happen so that we would end up at this time and place and he would be in a position to save the world from Smokey on the loose. I think we should assume he knows as much as Eloise Hawking did/does, and all his actions are in service to the island, and as a result, mankind...SOOO, the only ones I think are really working on behalf of the island with any true knowledge of what to do and why are Eloise and Charles.
I think you are absolutely right about this; I have thought for some time now that they are, in fact, working together. I had a really hard time seeing Widmore as the "good guy" because he is such a mean person, but if all that meanness is for a reason, maybe he is not the evil bastard that we have been led to believe he is.
As to just what they know, and why - well, those are some very important questions and I am sure that we will get the answers in good time.
Speaking of which, I found a YouTube video that says it is the last scene of the finale. I could not bring myself to watch it.
jack is hotter with the grayburns. And was I the only one who LOL when Charlie came running down the hallway in the hospital gown?
Fabulous episode all around.
Benny said: 9. Eloise: "What happened, happened" and "It's a violation"... of what? the rules?
Yepper, and I'd bet my last dollar she knows the rules as well as MIB and Jacob and for whatever reason, has agreed that the rules MUST be followed or she has agreed that she will just blindly follow them. If that doesn't make sense, either she agrees to just follow along, or she has to. Remember unlike Charles, she was actually a leader once upon a time. And wasn't Ben just a "follow-alonger" too?
@Convergence who said: Hey, did anybody else think like me that when Demond was simultaneously in the MRI chamber in the Sideways world and the EMP chamber in the Island world, he was going to wake up in each place switched?
YES, I did. Fully expected it to happen and had to back up the show when it didn't.
@Fred - had I read your entire entry before responding I would have just said, agreed. RE: Sacrafice - will Desmond have to die like LOCKE???
Hmm... In the Original Timeline (OT) the thing that best explained Eloise's time-bending omnipotence was the fact that she probably had Daniel's Journal after having shot him in 1977. This would have given her insight into everything Dharma was up to as well as that all-important sentence: "Desmond Hume Will Be My Constant." It would also explain why, in The Variable, she told Widmore that for once she had no idea what was going to happen next (b/c the journal would explain all that needed to go down up until Daniel got shot). The only thing missing from this attempt at explaining Eloise in the OT was how she'd have been able to predict the roof collapsing on that poor red-shoed fellow... though perhaps that occurrence was before the writers knew exactly what they wanted to do with her...
So what could explain Eloise in the Altered Universe (AU)? Maybe the exact same thing. If the events of the AU diverge from the OT at the precise point of The Incident in 1977 as we've been led to believe, then maybe AU Eloise STILL HAS Daniel's journal that she retrieved from his on-island body in 1977. So she knows EVERYTHING that went down and knows that her OT self was successful in manipulating everything so that the Incident occurred exactly as it was "supposed to" and the AU was created to save Daniel's life. And AU Eloise will do what she can to preserve/defend the existence of the AU so as to preserve/defend Daniel -- all a mother's penance for shooting her son in the first place...
@Sagacious Penguin: I like the idea that Sideways Eloise somehow got ahold of Island Daniel's journal, and is fully aware of the nature of the sideways world.
Though, I'm still not entirely comfortable with the idea, while Daniel's comments regarding the bomb seemed to confirm it, that Jughead's detonation is the point of deviation for the two realities. There are still some small but significant hints that the point of deviation occurred before the blast.
@Penguin: But Ben and Rogers suggest to divergence earlier than 1977, if we also believe the bomb sunk the island, then Eloise and Charles being alive also is an issue.
Fred said and my thoughts follow Freds. Patience Folks.I'm still learning how to do this stuff like italics. It seems in the alternate world that each character gets what they want most.I thought this some time ago too, but it's only true in a way and usually it's not what it was cracked up to be. My thoughts follow yours.
Ben gets Alex to succeed; TRUE
Jack gets to be a good father; When did Jack ever have a chance? He didn't have a real son, per se. By the time Aaron came into his life, he was so screwed up over the island, did his actions really matter? He knew he had to go back, and he knew that was his half-sister's kid that he was dealing with. Ya know, the girl he left behind? And it's not like he beat or was just horrible to Aaron.
Sayid knows Nadia is alive; Alive, yes, but he does not feel he can have her.
Jin and Sun escape from Mr. Paik; We don't know that yet.
Desmond gets Mr. Widmore's respect;Yes, and that was important to him, but at what cost?
Daniel gets to be a musician;My understanding was always that he wanted to do both, but Mommy said he was needed in Science and there was no more time to devote to frivolous things like beautiful music. Maybe I'm wrong.
Locke gets Helen; So far, but methinks that story is not over yet.
Hurley is lucky;I agree, or he seems to be as of now.
etc etc.There are A LOT OF ETC'S!
Just my opinion. You're right, but then again, are you?
I loved this episode! Jack with his maturity and self confidence. Desmond with his "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!" attitude. BUT... I am disliking Claire and now Charlie. I hope the both of them get back together and live in that twisted EPCOT igloo forever! They can be the "candidates" and save the island. Let everyone else leave and try to assume normal lives! Maybe they can trade that annoying Ilana for Nadia. Maybe they are sisters? Just a thought...
I have to re-watch. I missed Daniel on the piano the first time around. My husband actually asked me questions during the episode! I like to watch in silence and complete darkness.
I am convinced that Desmond needs the manifest because he is going to "visit" each of the passengers and see if something triggers a memory back to Penny.
Fred: Another thought: It's almost like the show is saying, "Be careful what you wish for cause you just might get it. And if you get it, are you prepared to PAY for it? How MUCH are you prepared to pay?"
@Susan and/or everyone else: Did anyone notice that Charlie's story didn't make any sense at all?
Last time we saw Charlie he was being escorted off the plane after what appeared to be an attempted suicide. And he was angry. In this episode he explains why he was angry, but he was also a junkie. As someone with a little experience with junkies, I don't think the first place he's going when he gets out of jail is to get a drink. THEN he actually sits down to converse with Des. No way! The junkies I've personally seen, as well as the junkie we love as Charlie, are gonna be hot to trot to find a fix NOW in a really bad way. Somebody is going to say we don't know how long he was in jail, and I know it's doesn't matter. Even IF he'd been there a month, as soon as he's let go, he's looking to fire up. No continuity there IMHO.
@Teebore: I know what you mean about little inconsistencies that suggest the point of deviation may have been earlier, but thus far I haven't found any I thought significant enough to deter the "obvious" (a phrase which here means initially presented on the show) viewpoint that Jughead caused the divergence in 1977.
@Benny: I'm of the mind that in the AU, destroying the energy pocket via Jughead DID sink the Island, but it was a slow process which allowed Dharma to linger there, allowed many of the Others to survive, and thus there were various mass migrations away from the Island post-1977. Maybe Dharma even lost interest in the Island after Jughead blew he source of it's powers away. I was thinking this might be the case before the Roger/Ben conversation and if anything that conversation only supported the theory. After all now that we know they WERE on the Island in Ben's AU youth, it means the Island was above ground sometime in Ben's first decade of life, and that's SO similar to the Original Timeline, why suspect divergence here? All we know for sure is that Island was underwater 27 years later as a result of the explosion. Certainly doesn't mean it was instant. After all it's not like the Island was blown to bits. It somehow... deflated...
@Teebore...
Didn’t the EM box look like Jacob’s cabin?
"It did, now that you mention it, but my first thought was "oh, so they're bringing raptors to the island..."."
Gaaaaaaahhhh!!! As I watched the scene for the 3rd time, I also thought of that scene in Jurassic Park!!! (Really doesn't look like Jacob's cabin at all.)
@ Teebore/Donna: We were TOTALLY yelling "Shoot her! Shooooooot heeerr!" as they were walking toward Widmore's Raptor box :)
@JS: I don't think Desmond will have to die like Locke did. First off, Desmond is more special than Locke, as was pointed out to us in the magnetic chamber of Widmore's. Furhter, Eloise seemed to regard Desmond as important to some task, in both Flashes Before Your Eyes and Happily Ever After. Secondly, like probably every other viewer, I expected Charlie to drown once more. But Desmond saved him this time. Obviously the fates are not conspiring to do away with Charlie. In fact, fate does not even seem operating in this LA X world. Thirdly, I think people are beginning to "wake up" in this alternate world, via the little bleed throughs. There is a Castenada kind of feel to this. All the Oceanic 6 need now is some peyote buds and they'll see life is an illusion (and that was one names of the boats in the harbour Ben passed in Season 5). That was how Desmond had to interpret his life in Flashes. And whereas there are little bleed throughs in LA X, it was a gusher in Flashes, with Desmond waking up in a pool of red paint (symbol of blood). Fourth, I don't think Desmond will die because this is the "Happily Ever After" world.
I was just wondering what was missing from this LA X world. While "love" might seem an easy answer, it is present in Locke and Helen. What I think is missing is "story." And this goes back to the Haroun (novel). Rushdie's novel asks where do stories come from, but also raises the significance of fiction. interestingly, the arch-enemy of stories is Khattam-Shud, or The End (oh, nice title for the final episode). but to accept the Water-genie, Iff, is to accept the continuance of stories. The Oceans of the Streams of Story combines all stories, told and untold, much as LOST itself combines stories in its own magical-realist narrative. It is Haroun the child who rescues the Story Waters, and in LOST it is the focus on the children as magical in ability.
So what does the title "The End" mean? Does it imply Khattam-Shud will succeed in his goals? Or is it ironic, that this tale will dissolve back into the Story Waters, but it will be reborn in other tales. LOST is LOST because of its intertextual nature. LOST is telling us as viewers about the importance of story. I'm sure much more can be done with this idea.
One of the ideas in Haroun is the sad city that has forgotten its name. So far the island has simply been "the island," a place that has forgotten its name.
@SP: That's right, we had indeed discussed that now that you mention it. We had included that possibility.
To me, the discussion between Ben and Roger still presents a significantly different situation than what we're discussing.
@Gracie: Another thought: It's almost like the show is saying, "Be careful what you wish for cause you just might get it . Yes, and if wishes were horses .... Well, Kate did see a horse on the island, and so did Sawyer. And Ben did say there was a magic box on the island, and whatever you thought, wished for, was brought there. But as Locke learnt, you have to clean up your own mess. Including what appears in the magic box.
Re: Charles and Eloise.
I don't remember what episode but I do remember Ben telling Charles he was kicked off the island for having another family when he was on the mainland. So, I am guessing that union produced Penny. But who is the mother? Not Eloise.
I also think Penny is older than Daniel. We know that Daniel's parents are Charles and Eloise. I think the priest is Eloise's brother, not Daniels father.
Another question that will not be answered, I would love to know how Charles accumlated his funding and fortune. I know he is OBSESSED with the island, so when was he actually working to make the money to fund all these projects? You can make ridiculous amounts of money in the corporate world, but you have to WORK. So, how does Charles do it???
@Rainier who said: My big nitpick in this episode is Charlie. I've always loved the character, but why is he running around so relatively OK in this ep? It's been how long since he last had a fix? Haven't the writers ever been around someone who is seriously strung out on something? NO WAY is he not sick as hell by now. It has to have been a good several hours, at least, by the end of the episode. And if he is not physically hurting yet, he should be a psychological and emotional wreck, and his #1 priority should be scoring some drugs.
Obviously, I'm posting before I've read everything, but some things just strike me in the face as absurd, and this is one of them. We have so few episodes left, and Lost has (or had) the time. Instead of seeing what would be "real" as in the case of Charlie's addiction, we are seeing WAY too many commercials, and extremely long ads for "V" which I will NEVER watch no matter how long I sit here because they've irritated me to death with it. I know that they've already finished the show, but some of this time could've been better spent IMHO. Or maybe I wanna say some things could be better clarified before it's all over.
I have totally and completely enjoyed this show, and spent more time thinking about it than any person ever should (on a TV show for God's sake), and I don't want every single answer. I want some of it to be left to the mind, the imagination, or to be argued over. But my biggest fear right now is that it's gonna end, and it's gonna be a major disappointment. Just a complete belly flop. PLEASE DON'T LET THAT HAPPEN!
OKAY!! THAT ROCKED!
I feel so late to the party as my work computer blocked the site all damn day until now.. 5 minutes before I leave!
when I get home I will have to read through all the comments but I just had to stick my nose in and say that the scene with Desmond talking to Zoe at the end... oooh boy! My head was like tingling with excitement! anticipation! it was just about damn near perfect! :)
@Anonymous who said: So does Widmore really like Desmond all along but had to push him towards the island even though it made Penny hate him so? Widmore was keeping them apart to try to save her the heartbreak?
Me: I touched on this earlier and it made me ill to think about, but now I'm gonna throw it out there for anyone to reply: Maybe Widmore was such a bastard because Penny is his daughter and Desmond is his son. Does anyone know anything about Des' parents? I don't remember, or can't, because I get a mental block after thinking that they wouldn't be able to be together. I'm holding onto the hope that they have a son and who would care anyway? (This is the only time in my entire life I'd be all for incest as disgusting as that may sound. GAG!)
@Gracie: But my biggest fear right now is that it's gonna end, and it's gonna be a major disappointment. Just a complete belly flop. PLEASE DON'T LET THAT HAPPEN!
No worries. These are such skilled writers, and the showrunners are superb. Afterall, Darlton brought us Nikki and Paulo, two immensely entertaining characters. And their mini-opening of six episodes for Season 3 on the Hydra island was so gut-wrenching tense, viewers would have wanted the entire story arc to focus on the Hydra and the polar bear cages. Then not least of all, there is the introduction of Zoe, whose portrayal rivals that of the Australian accent by Claire's mum.
Gracie, Gracie, put your trust in team Darlton. Have they ever made a mistep?
@Gracie: But my biggest fear right now is that it's gonna end, and it's gonna be a major disappointment. Just a complete belly flop. PLEASE DON'T LET THAT HAPPEN!
Anonymous: No worries. These are such skilled writers, and the showrunners are superb. Afterall, Darlton brought us Nikki and Paulo, two immensely entertaining characters. And their mini-opening of six episodes for Season 3 on the Hydra island was so gut-wrenching tense, viewers would have wanted the entire story arc to focus on the Hydra and the polar bear cages. Then not least of all, there is the introduction of Zoe, whose portrayal rivals that of the Australian accent by Claire's mum.
Gracie, Gracie, put your trust in team Darlton. Have they ever made a mistep?
Me: Um. My bad. I don't know how to take this. Are you being sarcastic or what?
Yes, the writing is top-notch, BUT I hate Nikki and Numbnuts and that whole storyline, if I had to pick of section of the whole story I liked the least, it would be the beginning of Hydra Island, although I did understand that we needed to be introduced to these people, and Zoe to me is just a wash. I personally think she's terrible. Not sure about the accent part of this....somehow that never caught my attention.
YES, I have faith, and YES I can trust, but please don't let me get this involved in a TV show and then drop it. Like they did with Dallas when Bobby got out of the shower, we found out it was all Pams dream, and I quit watching the show. Anything but that!
I don't know if someone else already pointed this out, but I decided to look up fantaisie-impromptu on wikipedia after you mentioned it. it must have been for a reason, right?? I think it really is significant! so, wiki says that the right and left hand parts are written at different tempos. maybe the importance is that there are two different things going on, but it's still just one song! kind of like the 2 timelines? maybe? here's the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantaisie-Impromptu
@Everybody: Spouse wants to throw oen out there as food for thought. Right now we know Des is with Sayid but we don't know if he's staying there or for how long. Or if he will get back to Widmore. We assume (I know, ass u me) that he will go back to Widmore to finish that part that was started.
Don't hit me: it wasn't my idea, but Spouse thinks the Sacrifice is that in order to save the world, Desmond must stay on the island with MIB as he is the only one "different" enough to do so. By saving the world, he would also save Penny and Little Charlie. (That just so makes me wanna cry!)
is it me or is every episode getting better and better as the season goes on????
@insaknitty: Just to clarify, the two hands are not playing at different tempo but are plying 'different rhythms'.
This is indeed a rare thing to do, especially for solo pieces, and can seem as two independent parts, creating a converging melody.
cause I don't see Lost until itunes makes it available I feel like everything gets said by the time I drop by...oh well
Great episode.....my heart was in my mouth thinking I was going to have to watch Charlie die a ..what's the count now...five, six times now. I think it was great seeing Desmond get to save him this time.
Also a nice explanation for Charlies's "Am I dead" comment in the season opener. It was great seeing Daniel and George, Eloise and how they were fitting in. I guess Eloise knows stuff in both timelines.
Sonya Walgner and Ian showed more chemistry and connection in five minutes as penny and desmond than the same actress has managed with Fiennes all this season of FF. Kudoes to the actors but I happen to think it has as much to do with the writing and directing. If ABC is really thinking FF is the next Lost...well good luck with that.
I have to say I'm getting more anxious before every episode now because I know we're getting close to the end and we're going to start loosing more characters. I kind of hoping that the Sideways might be a way to give everybody a happy ending.
Yeh I know...not likely....
cause I don't see Lost until itunes makes it available I feel like everything gets said by the time I drop by...oh well
Great episode.....my heart was in my mouth thinking I was going to have to watch Charlie die a ..what's the count now...five, six times now. I think it was great seeing Desmond get to save him this time.
Also a nice explanation for Charlies's "Am I dead" comment in the season opener. It was great seeing Daniel and George, Eloise and how they were fitting in. I guess Eloise knows stuff in both timelines.
Sonya Walgner and Ian showed more chemistry and connection in five minutes as penny and desmond than the same actress has managed with Fiennes all this season of FF. Kudoes to the actors but I happen to think it has as much to do with the writing and directing. If ABC is really thinking FF is the next Lost...well good luck with that.
I have to say I'm getting more anxious before every episode now because I know we're getting close to the end and we're going to start loosing more characters. I kind of hoping that the Sideways might be a way to give everybody a happy ending.
Yeh I know...not likely....
@Zari, I don't think Eloise said "Whatever happened, happened" she said "Whatever happens, happens." That is subtle, but a very powerful difference from what they've said in the past.
@Palindrome - And was I the only one who LOL when Charlie came running down the hallway in the hospital gown?
Nope, no you weren't.
@Ashlie - I interpreted it more as his appearance in LA X is the Desmond we know and love, the one who is married to Penny and has little Charlie who is crossing into the AU to interact with the characters, as opposed to the AU version of Desmond. I definitely do not think that it was a blooper at all.
Agreed. I don't think that Darlton and the production team would be careless with the details that they KNOW Losties will be sure to notice. Such as a wedding ring. Good call.
A great recap from Nikki, and awesome comments from everyone. When you get to game 200 comments in, there's not a lot to add:P
@tiffanietales/Zari:
her actual words are: "What happened happened"
indeed in past tense, but omission of the suffix 'ever'.
@Jenn/ashlie: need you be reminded of Charlotte's 1979 birthday? or the date of 10/22/04 on Claire's ultrasound?
Now obviously this doesn't mean anything, just saying that errors do crawl up on occasion!
My point is that if Desmond in the hospital remembers sitting next to Jack on the plane, how could the Desmond in LA X have been a different one?
I know we're talking Desmond, we'll just have to wait and see.
@JS who said: Sideways reality - So what do we know about the sideways? Are they what the characters always thought they wanted, not what they were supposed to have?
Me: Back when the season first started, and I miss this, ABC ran a repeat of last week's episode just before the new one. (Maybe they always did, but since I was a newbie, I wouldn't know.) In the repeats they had a scroll that ran on the bottom of the screen that explained some things. This was NOT Closed Captioning, but an ABC thing. (Other people have certainly seen this!) Anyway, on that scroll, it was explained that what we see in the flash-sideways is what WOULD HAVE BEEN if Oceanic 815 had NEVER crashed. At times, I seriously have questioned this, but that is what was on the screen until ABC decided that I really needed to see "Dancing With The Stars" MORE than I needed to see that repeat. Gag me! I wonder if ABC knows how many viewers they lost because they ROBBED us of those revisits?
@Anybody: Who or what is "BAMF Sayid"? Where did I miss that?
WV: misat: placed my butt where it wasn't supposed to go?
From "Lost Easter Eggs" Episode 6.11 'Happily Ever After' on BuddyTV by John Kubicek ~ George Minkowski notices Desmond is NOT wearing a wedding ring after he picks him up at the airport. Desmond, on Oceanic 815 sitting next to Jack clearly had a wedding ring on his left hand.
@Gracie - BAMF = Bad Ass Mother shut-your-mouth!
Way late on commenting on this episode. I'm writing this on an INSANELY SLOW computer in Ottawa. But I managed to find a computer.
I LOVED this episode. LOVED IT. Not on par with "Ab Aeterno", but we have our Desmond back, and Chah-lee and Daniel. I just about screamed in the hotel room when Daniel came.
Umm . .. why did Desmond go with Evil!Sayid? (as Ack would call him). Maybe Sawyer and Kate will keep him in the loop.
Can't wait for next week's episode. It looks like it'll be as good as this one.
@Fred re: Desmond chatting to the flash-sideways characters: I can totally see that happening!
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