Tuesday, May 04, 2010

6.14 The Candidate

“You saved John’s life. Why can’t that be enough?”
“Because it’s not.”


“Because it’s going to be you, Jack.”

“I won’t leave you. I will never leave you again.”

OK, a few weeks ago I wrote a blubbery and passionate response to “Ab Aeterno,” because it was one of the most epic hours of television I’d ever seen. A friend of mine emailed me right before tonight’s episode and said, “Make sure you have Kleenex handy” (he works at the TV station and gets to see the ep a few hours early) and I thought, “Uh oh...” But then it opened with John Locke in a hospital bed and Jack standing over him grinning and I thought, Oh! Maybe he meant tears of joy!!

NO. He most certainly did NOT mean tears of joy. The writers took out not one, not two, but FOUR major characters in one fell swoop. Sayid, like Titus in Edward Gorey’s “Gashlycrumb Tinies” poem, flew into bits. (WAAAAAH!!) And like a certain major character in the series finale of Buffy who’s sort of cut in half with a sword in the midst of battle and it happens so fast we have no time to mourn, it HAPPENED SO FAST WE HAD NO TIME TO MOURN!! There was no sad music, no montage of Sayidness, no characters saying, “Poor Sayid,” no tears, no tearful goodbyes, no body... NOTHING. Oh, Sayid. Let’s pause for a moment before dwelling on the major death scene and say goodbye to this character (and also lend our condolences to redeem147 and Joan...). This is a man who was a torturer, but he tortured himself more than he ever did anyone else. He loved with his whole being, and he hated what he did for a living. He died, and then came back an empty shell of his former self (perhaps THAT was his true death back then?) and only when Desmond talked to him did we see the tiniest shaft of light shine out of his eyes once again. He remembered who he used to be, he remembered that he loved, and he loved mightily, and he spared Desmond, and his final act is a heroic one, jumping on the grenade, so to speak, to save everyone else. Yes, the old Sayid was in there, knowing how a bomb worked, knowing he couldn’t do anything about it, and putting himself before the others. From the moment they arrived on that island, Sayid did everything in his power to get them off. And now, in his final act, he ensured that some of them would live to maybe see their way off the island some day.

And then, Lapidus was conked unconscious and we can probably presume he died, unless he washes up on shore next week. Don’t count him out yet, because he certainly didn’t get any final heroic scenes, but on the other hand, he was peripheral compared to everyone else on that sub, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he were dead.

But... that scene. Oh, that scene. For me, the most painful death has always been Charlie’s. We watched his final act, we saw the water pour in around him, we saw him cross himself and say goodbye to Desmond, and then float upwards in quiet death. The piano, the mournful violin, it all came together in a spectacular feat of sadness that I was gutted. But this? This topped it. OK, maybe, as I wrote in my notes (and then my brother immediately emailed me after) it was a little too Titanic, with Rose letting go of Jack’s hand. But I don’t care. It was beautiful. And YES I kept thinking, “Oh my GOD if you both die, then Ji Yeon will grow up an orphan and she will be raised by the Paiks. THE PAIKS!!!” But were they really ever going to get off that island anyway? Probably not. The beauty in that moment was how they died. I was really unhappy when they were reunited and spoke English (??!!) instead of their native Korean, a language that Jin would still be thinking in, and one that Sun has used almost exclusively for the past three years. So when it was clear she was trapped, I was alarmed, and then when they started speaking in Korean, I knew it was all over, and I started sobbing. SOBBING. I was whipping Kleenexes out of the box and really LOUDLY crying, with my husband chuckling on the couch (he has NO HEART. NONE. See, if a character on The Wire died, he’d have been in tears... but he’s never had that attachment to people on Lost. He said, and I quote, “Poor Nikki and her attachment to fictional characters.” Oh yeah, buddy? Let’s see how you handle it if anything ever happens to Coach Taylor on Friday Night Lights... you will be a ball of goo on the floor). Anyway... And then they vowed they’d never be apart, and then the camera pulled back on the sub... the piano music, and then... the hands. Oh my GOD they had to show the hands. What a beautiful, beautiful image, but when the hands pulled away from each other I cried and cried some more. I wanted them to somehow be entwined for eternity. So I cried even harder. And when I finally got my sobs under control, HURLEY started sobbing and I was a mess all over again. Oh, Lost... four major characters in one go.

Why was I crying so much? I was crying for Sayid, for Jin and Sun, for Ji Yeon, a tiny bit for Frank (love the character, but it wasn’t tear-inducing, really)... but also for the end. This show only has 4 hours left (well, as of tonight, don’t know if you hear this, the finale has been extended by a full half hour, so we have four and a half hours left!) and I don’t know if I can handle these goodbyes. I don’t want to say goodbye to the characters, to the story, to the fine writing week after week... I don’t want to see the island for one last time, and know there’s no more Lost. The speculation will be over... but I LOVE the speculation!! I have to say goodbye to the questions, the mysteries, the clues, the hints. To Damon and Carlton’s skilled crafting of this series, to the collection of writers, to everything that Lost is about. I’m so excited to see it end, yet I don’t want to say goodbye.

And tonight’s episode was a forced goodbye, as if a trial run for the finale. Oh god... can I make it there?!

Highlights:
• Jack saying to Locke, “I think you’re a candidate.”
• Sawyer grabbing the gun away from “Doughboy.” HAHA!!! That was AWESOME.
• Bernard again!! We may never see them on the island again, but I’m so happy to see them in the sideways world.
• “Memory serves you were flirting with my wife Rose when I was in the bathroom.” LOL!
• Sun putting the ring back on Jin’s finger. Aw...
• Hurley when he hears Smokey: “And we’re dead.”
• Jack unlocking the cages and saying, “I’m with him.” WICKED line.
• Smokey taking out the two guys by the plane without even batting an eyelash. Oh my god that was epic.
• Kate shot!! ZOMG!

The Numbers:
Did I mention 4 major people died in this episode?? Wah.

Did You Notice?:
• So in this episode Jack seems to be putting together that something odd is happening. He hasn’t been hit by true love or a near-death experience, but he’s just using his own powers of deduction and, methinks, a faith he has in this world that he doesn’t have in the original timeline. In that one he’d think it was coincidence, but in this world he’s starting to think maybe they were on the plane for a reason. The new Jack on the island seems to have faith and a belief that things happen for a reason, and that hard-fought idea is something that the SW Jack seems to already possess. Can he put it together without falling in love or getting mowed down by Desmond?
• Sawyer gets the upper hand, but gives it up for Kate, exactly the same way he did when they were breaking rocks and he gave it because Juliet threatened to hurt Kate.
• Bernie’s still a dentist in this reality!
• There’s something odd about the way Bernard remembers Anthony Cooper, writes down the name, and when Jack says, “It was three years ago... you remember that?” he says, “Of course I do, Jack.”
• “I hope you find what you’re looking for.” Again, Bernard seems to know something more here. (OK, and I also really wanted Bono to jump out of one of those doors and start singing!)
• As Smokey is talking to Jack, you see the smoke from the campfire billowing behind him.
• Smokey is lying to Jack: We already know he can’t actually kill anyone, and he tells Jack that he spared them when he could have killed them.
• The scene of Jin and Sun chatting in the cages is so sweet. The reunion just didn’t get to me the way I wanted it to (mostly because I thought they were about to be zapped by that fence!!) and so this episode fulfilled the reunion fantasy I really wanted for so long.
• As soon as Chip is killed by Smokey, I started yelling, “Zoe!! RUN OUTSIDE!!! YOU ARE NEEDED BY THE CAGES.” ;)
• Jack being in the nursing home seemed to be him forcing Locke to be fixed... the other timeline Jack was coming through in this scene.
• When Helen went to get Anthony I said to my husband, “So is he going to be senile and drooling?” And then... he was. To which my husband replied, “Oh YEAH! In the sideways world, Anthony gets his!!” Only to find out he’s some sweet beloved man here.
• Ah, the old C4. You know, if I were Kate on the island, I’d take one look at that and say, “Oh for god’s sakes, if I see ONE more packet of that stuff, SERIOUSLY...”
• When Locke is explaining to everyone what could happen with the C4, he says, “Boom,” the same way Desmond says it while explaining the bomb in the freighter to Jin and Michael in S4.
• I’m sure it was obvious to most of us the moment Sawyer said, “I’m sorry for not trusting you” that he didn’t trust Smokey as far as he could throw him.
• OK, and right at this commercial break they had a CTV station ID with Josh Holloway looking into the camera and smirking that I’ve NEVER seen before and it made me melt. Holy freakin’ wow.
• Locke saying, “Push the button” and “I wish you had believed me” made me squeal. The first is obvious, the second was John Locke’s suicide note to Jack.
• Jack gets an Apollo bar out of the vending machine similar to the one Jacob got one from when he gave it to Jack.
• Christian died exactly the same way in both worlds. Significant?
• That rosewood box that Claire and Jack look at had a mirror in it, and notice at first it showed both of them, and then the camera turns so Claire disappeared and it was only Jack. A foreshadowing of something happening to Claire Bear?
• The first ones who run to the sub are the four Listies and Lapidus.
• The guy on the sub looked like Radzinsky! For a second I forgot we were in the same timeline and thought maybe it was him.
• Smokey said earlier that he couldn’t travel over water... I think he meant in his smoke monster form, but Jack and Sawyer seem to think he’s like the Wicked Witch of the West.
• Aw... my heart broke when they abandoned poor Claire AGAIN.
• OK, I know that technically, Jack was right and Sawyer was wrong and by Sawyer pulling the wires when he did, without consulting anyone, at least four people died. BUT... considering the last time Jack gave a big speech and was SO sure that he was right, Juliet died as a result, you can’t blame Sawyer for doing his own thing in this scene.
• “THERE IS NO SAYID!” Oh, SADNESS!!!
• John Locke is momentarily distracted as Jin walks by, as if he knows him.
• Like in the other world, Locke has an African-American male nurse.
• When Jack talks to Locke in the hallway, there’s a “Caution: Oxygen” sign behind them, right after the scene where everyone needed oxygen.
• When Jack tells Locke that he went to see his father, I just thought, “GOD, Jack, you have totally overstepped your bounds here...” I know he wants to fix him, but he has to understand that Locke has free will, and should be allowed to exercise it, even if he is punishing himself for what he did to his father.
• What was with Jack using all the catchphrases there? “What happened, happened. And... you can let it go. Come on, John, if we don’t live together, we’ll die alone. I mean, son of a BITCH! This is the beginning of the end for you. I’m a man of science, but also a man of faith... fine, if you’re leaving, fine. I’ll see you in another life, bruthah.”
• I am NOT choosing sides here, but simply pointing out that... did you notice when Hurley and Kate hit the shore, she immediately ran to Jack, grabbing him and upset that she couldn’t find him, but doesn’t seem to notice Sawyer bleeding out on the beach?

So Many Questions...
• Widmore’s list has Ford, the Kwons, and Reyes. What is his list? Considering two of the people on it are dead... does this mean bad news for Hurley and Sawyer?? NO NO NO NO!!!!
• “He’s coming.” Who is he? Is Widmore preparing for The Rapture or something? Is Jacob returning the same way Jesus returned?
• Seriously, WHY are Jin and Sun speaking English??!! It’s really bugging me. But I must admit, having them speak Korean was more powerful at the end because they spoke English up to that point, BUT then it comes off as contrived, since there’s no logical reason why they would speak in English when both of them are more at ease in that language.
• What is the significance of the rosewood box that Christian left to Claire?
• How is Claire staying at a motel if she gave Kate her credit card? (Assuming she had a second one?)
• How many people did Widmore bring with him? Every time you turn around there’s another dozen shooting at everyone.
• I don’t know anything about submarines, but why do they dive for only 30 seconds and it’ll take 5 minutes to go back up?
• “Because it’s going to be you, Jack.” What the WHAT?! Did Sayid just reveal who the candidate actually is? Because my money is on YES. I think most people have been torn between Jack and Desmond, and I’ve thought it would be Jack from the beginning of the season (though I’d be equally happy if it were a surprise).
• Locke says he’s off to finish what he started. What does that mean? He’s going to drive the rest of them to kill each other? He’s going to kill Desmond? (NOOOO!!!)


Me tomorrow:
I’m on Facebook! Come and find me. I am here. :)

Tomorrow listen in to Marshall and Forbes on The Ocean 98.5 in Victoria, BC at 7:10 a.m. local time, 10:10 a.m. EST. Go here and click on the Listen Now button if you’re out of the listening area.

And tomorrow at noon I will NOT be participating in the Globe and Mail Lost chat from noon to 1pm EST (I will be on a plane to NYC... I’m also missing an opportunity to guest-host Innerspace, ARGH) but it will still be happening! Go here to ask questions and comment.

And finally, listen to KEX 1190 at 6:20 p.m. PST, 9:20 p.m. EST where I’ll be on the Mark & Dave show (and they’re big Lost fans so it’s always fun). Go here and click the Listen Now button.

Next week:
A preview that didn’t actually reveal a THING (all old material) but I know what it’s going to focus on. Let’s just say it might be THE episode we’ve been waiting for. (Please don’t kill off anyone, please don’t kill off anyone...)

477 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 400 of 477   Newer›   Newest»
Benny said...

Blamoooh! I missed 'mostly' apparently!
that would cover Hurley indeed...

Blam said...


SonshineMusic: I don't think he knows because he has some sort of extra-sensory thing going on. My immediate reaction was he knows because he is still stuck on the Island.

Teebore: Ditto.


Ditto ditto.

Casey: And that's how subs work, in a nutshell, and that's why it takes much longer to rise than it does to dive.

Wow... Thanks!

VW: enatoid — Kinda-sorta related on your mother's side.

Rainier said...

@Blam: next time you run across a word you don't know and have to really search for a meaning, could you define it for the rest of us? There is a high probability that if you don't know it, a lot of the rest of us don't know it either.

I also Googled it, and for the benefit of anyone else who is now wondering just what the hell it means, here is the definition that I found:

1. Intended to instruct.
2. Morally instructive.
3. Inclined to teach or moralize excessively.

Susan said...

Blam thank you for reminding me that Hurley can talk to the dead; now I have a teeny bit of hope that we'll see Frank again!

Nurse Brian said...

@Nikki: Goodness! A tip of the hat to you Nikki! Also… tee-hee at your little boy’s superhero name! VERY CUTE! The imagination in me instantly thinks of a cute helmet/mask with the initials “GN” across the forehead area. =)

@Kotowski: I’m liking this idea of the Adam and Eve skeletons being MIB and Jacob’s parents!

@Gracie: Everybody else I may be sad to see go, but I know each of them had their day and time. I KNOW, right?! I mean, when we first have him introduced, his character has some decent substance to him. You know, high in the sarcasm, but still comes off as one hell of a cool guy. And this season, it’s kinda been filtered into cheesy one-liners. Well… at least he wasn’t “Artz’d”

AH!!!! Quick thought!!! If Lapidus IS gone, the plane may still be dangerously rigged, and the sub is hanging out with the bottom-feeders, how are they gonna get off the island NOW?! Even if the plane is “fixed” and useable, who’s going to fly it? (ugh, don’t tell me one of Widmore’s magic “clown car” lackeys is a pilot too; that’d be TOO easy.) The only thing other than the plane would be…. The Frozen Donkey Wheel?! Whoo, Tunisa road trip! And who else better to usher them than… :gasp: Christian?! Am I stretching this too far here?

@Rainier: RE : Sun – Totally agree with you. She kinda went from badass to bore sometime around her noggin bump, possibly even earlier. What also didn’t help her character? Well, IMO it’d have to be when they were all charging the sub… and Sun was GUNLESS. Did anyone else laugh at that?! I know I did! I mean, what is she gonna do? SCREAM at them?! (though that helicopter scream a few seasons back was pretty mighty)

@Rainier: …heart-wrenching Sun & Jin death scene, when they faded to black, they should have held it there at least a couple more beats before cutting to commercial. Oh man, for me, after the scene ended, it cut to that Nicorette (I think, one of those smoking cessation gums) commercial with the guy on the pier and the shark biting his arm. TOTAL MOOD KILLER!

Rainier said...

@ Blam: While it's always shown the white guy(s) in the lead role, from Jack to Locke to Sawyer to Ben to even Jacob, giving relative prominence to a Korean couple and a Frenchwoman and a former member of the Iraqi Republican Guard was admirable — so seeing the nonwhites get stripped away from the core cast at the climax just did not compute, if only because it seems sure to become a topic of conversation.

The decision to include Sayid in the show was a bold one indeed. And making him not only a member of the Republican Guard, but a torturer to boot, and the making his character into a sympathetic one - that was really risky. But it worked beautifully, leaving many of us grief-stricken by Sayid's death.

But what a death! Someone on another forum discussed the fact that the manner of Sayid's death is the moral equivalent of the opposite of a suicide bomber. And to place the one Muslim character into that situation was not only brilliant, but about as PC as you can get! Kudos to the writers for this one, much as I hate them killing Sayid, whom I find to be the finest piece of eye-candy on the sho2w. Also, I just like him in general.

So we are left now with only our 1 Hispanic. (and Rose, assuming she is still around somewhere & that we will see her again...) I do not necessarily agree with this decision, but I think that on the whole the writers and creators have done a bang-up job with diversity on the show.

VW: hathl - to harrath someone. (Thtop hathling me, you thupid jerk!)

Blam said...


Rainier: [N]ext time you run across a word you don't know and have to really search for a meaning, could you define it for the rest of us? There is a high probability that if you don't know it, a lot of the rest of us don't know it either.

Will do... I can't imagine it happening again, though. 8^)

VW: oclamo — Invocation of the great mollusk god.

Nurse Brian said...

@Blam: oclamo — Invocation of the great mollusk god.

LOL! Oh man, my face hurts from laughing so much!

Fred said...

@Rainier:The decision to include Sayid in the show was a bold one indeed. And making him not only a member of the Republican Guard

It was even bolder than one might think, considering that Sayid began his torturing through American auspicies. Does this imply American feelings of guilt in the Iraq war? It's a bold statement, and if you read J. Wood's Living LOST you'll find pages 105 to 134 devoted to covert metaphors and images of the Iraq War and the War on terror read into the storylines of LOST. I'm sure most anyone can read LOST as a dark allegory of the War on terror, ... or they can just see it as a great mystery story. I suppose since a lot of viewers see it as a verification of religious beliefs (or at least an echo of their own beliefs), LOST is so many things. But what is terrific about someone like Sayid is the way they've managed to represent his character. He is not a caricature, he is not an exotic figure (as Achara was), he is not unsympathetic, despite his crimes. If Sayid, Eko and Jin are dangerous, then so are the lily white American characters, like Ben, Keamy, Sawyer, and Kate.

Jonathan Gray sees a relationship in the portrayal of Sayid with Jack Bauer, as action figure (and we know how Jack readily tortures people). But whereas Jack accepts the ends as a reason for the means; Sayid confronts those means when he is face to face with one of his victims. This is a powerful scene of redemption and awareness in Sayid, reminisicent of the Truth and Reconciliation trials in South Africa. When Jack Bauer must confront his past actions in a court room, a terrorist plot allows him to escape the consequences as he rusghes off to save the day once more. But Sayid is never given such luxury to avoid his past. And what a brilliant move to hire Naveen Andrews to play Sayid. How less nuanced would Sayid's character have been portrayed had an American actor been chosen to play Sayid. The internationalism of the cast has certainly added a whole lot of depth to the show it might not have achieved without such diversity.

crazyinlost said...

@Marebabe-I watched the Jorge Garcia interview-it was "awsome"!

I got a chance to comment right away on Nikki's Facebook, but couldn't get myself to go onto the blog...I too was shaking and crying uncontrollably-had to go spash cold water onto my face at the commercial (I actually watched this one live-unusual for me), and STILL couldnt control myself. Then I go back and watch the rest, and when the ended it I yelled, "NO! Wait, that can't be the end!" These eps are getting more and more intense...what kind of emotional rollercoaster are we gonna be on with the finale?

word verif-aliting-what I do to my candles

Gracie said...

@Missing Georgia said...
John 15:13 - Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

With all of the biblical themes that play in LOST, I think this is the biblical reference that is the most important. The series and especially this episode has illustrated this scripture. I think this sacrificial love is what Jacob expected and called "progress." MIB does not have this same faith in people. Perhaps before the Losties, when Jacob and MIB were playing their "game" that the prior candidates did not demonstrate this sacrificial love for one another. That is what will make this group special and why they are the "progress" that Jacob was talking about.


I love this idea!! Their ability to care for one another is what sets them apart from those who have come before them. BRAVO on that thought line. I like it.

Gracie said...

Kotowski said...well, Kotowski laid out a few ideas about Desmond that I wanted to follow up on.

1. It seems Des must still be in the well since that is where Sayid told him to go to find him, but I have a suspicion that Sayid DID get a vine or something a few weeks ago, and then he tossed it down to Desmond. So he may be there, or maybe not. That would be perfect Lost to send everyone running to the well anticipating Desmond at the bottom, getting there, and finding nothing.
2. In the FS they are showing certain people and conversations which lead me to believe that Des has already been there. I think Desmond has already been just about EVERYWHERE, but they are editing it to look as if he's only spoken to a few so far. I really believe he has seen far more than a few.

Gracie said...

To Kotowski, David, Teebore and anyone else I just haven't gotten to yet: Thank you for the clarification.

So had Sawyer left it alone, nothing would have happened, right?

Thanks Again.

crazyinlost said...

@Nikki-Frank? I totally forgot about him! Did they really kill him off too? Wow...intense.

crazyinlost said...

@Blam-"Lost's homage to The Poseidon Adventure will return after these messages..."
Yes! My all time favorite movie! (the Gene Hackman version, of course).
and..."My condolences to the DURALSAC —
Dames United Regarding Ardent Love of Sayid Amalgamated Collective."
LOL! My coworker is looking at me again!...still chuckling...
and...Wow, you dont recognize the "Catch a Falling Star" song? Okay. I guess since I'm a musician, I hear things like that, but every time I hear the song, I think of Princess Diaries, as it played a dominant roll in that movie. Do you remember the creepy version of Claire singing in the montage of "Sundown"? That one gives me shivers thinking about it!

My favorite lines:
Jack, "You can stay with me"
Claire, "But we're strangers"
Jack, "No we're not, we're family"
Here again we see a contrast between SW and OW, where Jack seems to not want anything to do with Claire in OW, and wants to get to know this new sibling in SW.

crazyinlost said...

@Nikki-" When Locke is explaining to everyone what could happen with the C4, he says, “Boom,” the same way Desmond says it while explaining the bomb in the freighter to Jin and Michael in S4."
I love this, especially since I had just got done watching the season finale of s4 w/in 30min of this ep going live. Also, watching what Sun went thru at the end of s4, then watching THIS ep, oh so hard! I also like how you compare the hand holding with "Titanic", except in that movie, somebody lives (also noted that the 2 names are Jack and Rose...just thought that was interesting, since Jack was allegidly flirting with Rose)

crazyinlost said...

Another great line:
Jack, "James, we're going to be okay, you're just gonna have to trust me"
Sawyer, "Sorry Doc, I don't"

John, "Who said letting go was easy?"
Jack, "It's not. I don't really know how to do it myself. That's why I was hoping you would go first"
John, laughs, "Good by Dr. Shepherd"

word verif-untin-to dump the tuna fish into a bowl

crazyinlost said...

you know, for a man who is SO emotional, and Jears at the drop of a hat (actually, I kinda like this trait in a man), WHY couldn't he have shown his emotion to the rest of the losties on the beach, and just sorrowed with all of them?

word verif-sestr-I get to visit mine in July!

crazyinlost said...

@Benny-"So far as we know, Christian's life has been identical in both realities, he died the exact same way too."
But it's interesting that she says she never met Christian.

@latelylost-"Sayid's death was redemptive and heroic. Charlie 2.0."
I agree with you whole heartedly! "No greater sacrifice made than to lay down your life for a friend(s)"

Lisa(ufn)-"Sideways Sayid, Jin and Sun are better than none."
But SW Sayid is in jail, and Jin and Sun are just too good to be true. As much as I hate that they died, at least Sayid went out with a bang (did I really say that) and Jin and Sun are forever reunited.

@Susan-"...he had to learn to speak English fluently to communicate with the others. I'm sure he had help from his friends."
Right, like Sawyer's, "Those pants do not make you look fat"!

@Zari-thanks for the song lyrics!

Kiki said...

Gracie said -- Although I don't think it is her. Or Jack. But my candidate is still alive as of last night.

And others have mentioned to about who will be "The One" . .

Made me think. I have been leaning towards Jack since he really is the main character to me. But this is Lost and I need to expect twists and turns. So who would Jack be helping or protecting? That may lead to who the real "one" ends up being. My mind is jumping. I think I'm going to have to think on this a bit.

Kiki said...

Gracie Said -- The Losties may WANT to kill themselves, be are UNABLE to. . . . .So, after last night, are we supposed to take away from this that Sawyer killed those who died? Or what?

Which also makes me think that if the Losties can't kill themselves, Sawyer would have to survive even if everyone else on the sub perished since his actions cannot kill himself. So for the MiB plan to have worked fully (killing all the candidates) wouldn't the bomb need to have been tampererd with by a non-candidate?

asiancolossus said...

Hey just as an aside, did you guys watch Modern Family with the hilarious Lost joke with Julie Bowen at the airport last night? Priceless!

Kiki said...

Blam said -- what we saw Hurley do — cry real, spontaneous tears that risk looking fake instead of indulge in over-the-top hysterics.

I've seen other mentions of this too and they have made me think about the episode of M.A.S.H. where Henry Blakes dies. The actors have said they did not know before they shot the scene that Radar would come into the OR and give them the news. Even Radar was only given the lines right before he headed into the scene. The reactions were so real as the actors were stunned to find out a character that they had come to love had died. Makes me wonder if Lost employed the same technique . . . Not taking anything away from the brilliant acting.

Austin Gorton said...

@Gracie: So had Sawyer left it alone, nothing would have happened, right?

That's what Jack believed, and I'm inclined to agree with him.

@Kiki: Which also makes me think that if the Losties can't kill themselves, Sawyer would have to survive even if everyone else on the sub perished since his actions cannot kill himself. So for the MiB plan to have worked fully (killing all the candidates) wouldn't the bomb need to have been tampererd with by a non-candidate?

I think the Losties CAN kill each other; the rules just prevent Smokey from killing a candidate. Just like he needed Ben to kill Jacob, he needed someone on the sub to arm the bomb to kill the candidates.

@asiancolossus: Hey just as an aside, did you guys watch Modern Family with the hilarious Lost joke with Julie Bowen at the airport last night? Priceless!

I did indeed, and like most of that show, it was hilarious!

Kiki said...

Treebore -- right . . . But my thinking was along the lines that the Losties cannot kill themselves. In which case, Sawyer detonating the bomb would kill everyone but spare him somehow. One candidate left is all it takes. So if the MiB plan was to be foolproof, he needed to get a non-Lostie to pull the wires

m.l. said...

I'll be honest I wasn't really sad about any of the deaths but Frank, and him just because his death was so crappy. Lost had too many cast members and they need to be cut down. I've never been a Sayid fan so when he died I was like ' at least he got to go when he wasn't an unfeeling cool aid drinker.'

I've never understood how Jin hadn't died before now, I like him but seriously I've been waiting for him to die since Lost started killing characters. Sun pissed me off though, she didn't even tell him to live so their child would at least have a father. Well at least they went together.

Poor Sawyer, Juliet just died like 2 days ago and he wasn't even allowed to grieve. Not to mention he's part of the reason she died, because he still had feelings for kate. But what really sucks is that he still has feelings for kate after juliet died. The guilt must be killing him, and now he's pretty much reacting. Something he hasn't done since he hooked up with Juliet.

And seriously Jake, he said the worst thing he could have said. I'll be honest I knew he was right but once he said trust me I started screaming Juliet. So I get why sawyer did what he did. Now he's going to have to live with the guilt of 4 people dying...I just hope he doesn't kill himself, but it does make me think he's the one who will stay on the island, whether as the candidate or as a spirit.

And poor side Sawyer, the guy he's hunting has pretty much already died. And yeah Anthony Cooper may have been a better dad, but he was still a crappy person.

Fred said...

@Kiki: Sawyer detonating the bomb would kill everyone but spare him somehow. One candidate left is all it takes

In that case, it's a good thing Jacob never touched Arzt as a candidate; the show would have ended long ago with only Arzt left standing.

TM Lawrence said...

Said it before and I'll say it again:

Jack is "the hero" (Sawyer)
Kate is the hero without quotes. She is Eowyn, the candidate unmarked, off the misogynist radar. The fact that evil entities like Widmore and MIB disregard her is precisely what empowers her--the arrogance engendered by prophetic knowledge that "not by the hand of man will he fall" is fatal if there's an able bodied woMAN (Kate) in front of you and a hobbit (Charlie) behind you.

Think I'm blurring my stories? Aren't they? Didn't Haroun's father?

Can't Kate/Eowyn, Charlie/Merry, and Desmond/Gandalf jointly smite the Lord of the Nazgul while Sayid/Anakin, Jack/Luke and Sawyer/Han work a little deathly Jedi trick on the Emperor? I hope so since the white side of the chessboard just experienced considerable attrition.

(Hurley is, by the way, R2D2)

Kate's not a candidate 'cuz she's not on the wall? I'll take my truth from the beacon itself: 51 (a pretty and symmetric 110011) on the compass dial = Austen as proof. And if that doesn't work, I'd remind y'all, in my best Texan accent, that Sam Austen is the reason that lately and dearly departed Sayid was a torturer, and that his good cop-bad cop routine with Inman puts him in Island context. He is clearly not a candidate, but last names can be such a chore on this show.

Kate's last name is Janssen.

Fred said...

@Gracie:But my candidate is still alive as of last night.

Do candidates have to die? Ben's name was listed as a candidate, but was crossed off in the lighthouse. If the rules state that once a candidate's name is struck form the list, they are fair game for MiB killing them, then we should consider wehose name is struck and is still alive. Right now that's Kate and Ben. Does Desmond fall into that category? Or is he just a wild card?

But the way you've phrased your comment, Gracie, highlights how much like Survivor the show has become. We are cheering our favoirte on, and once their off, then it's down to the next favorite. Oh, if they get rid of Hurley, I'll be so pissed. I expect Kate to be next off, and I'm not holding our much hope for Sawyer--something self-sacrificing and glorious for him. In the end it might just leave, Desmond (who'll die sacrificing himself in some dramatic way), Hurley and Jack. It will be the Jack and MiB/Locke confrontation--and who will win? Maybe Jack will lose, and Jacob will appear and say to MiB, I guess you won that round.

Rebecca T. said...

All right. Bear with me as this may run a little long, but it's so freaky I have to share it with y'all.
I have had that song, "Catch a Falling Star" in my head for a while now. It keeps showing up, over and over and over again. I know we looked at the lyrics (thanks Zari for posting them!) and they seem innocuous. Maybe something to do with love.

But what kept popping into my head was a scrap of scripture from Isaiah 14:12 about the fall of Lucifer. "How you have fallen from heaven, o star of the morning, son of the dawn!"

I looked up the passage and started to read through and when I got to 14:19 I about flipped out.
"But you (still talking about the fallen star) have been cast out of your tomb like a rejected branch, clothed with the slain who are pierced with a sword..."

I'm not sayin' that MiB is Satan, I'm just looking at the crazy parallels. MiB seems to have been trapped/cast down/ limited in form by Jacob or the Island or something. And he wants to break free. And everyone keeps saying that if he does it will be the end of the world. Kind of like the apocalypse in Revelation, which is a parallel passage also talking about the "fallen star" who is released to wreak havoc on the earth at the end times.

I don't even know what kind of conclusion I'm drawing from this, if any, but WEIRD.

TM Lawrence said...

I need me some Juliet and some haiku, so...

Juliet brought forth
a field mouse from male mouse,
well not quite, stillborn.

Through Rachel's chemo
ravaged womb she did succeed
to birth a nephew.

Against Island odds
and breech lie Amy gave birth
to craze-eyed killer.

David, some suspect
more direct from Juliet
arose through Jack's seed.

Juliet's greatest
birthing miracle? LA
X reality.

Kiki said...

Fred said -- In that case, it's a good thing Jacob never touched Arzt as a candidate; the show would have ended long ago with only Arzt left standing.

Haha! Thank Jacob for small favors!!

Zari said...

@asiancolossus: Hey just as an aside, did you guys watch Modern Family with the hilarious Lost joke with Julie Bowen at the airport last night? Priceless!
@Teebore: I did indeed, and like most of that show, it was hilarious!

No, some of us missed it – could you share, please?

Word Verf: spifyin : Covert surveillance of the SyFy Channel.

Austin Gorton said...

@Zari: The family is flying to Hawaii to celebrate Jay's (the family patriarch's) birthday. His daughter, Claire, played by Julie Bowen (who played Jack's ex wife on Lost) is nervous about flying.

At the airport she is growing increasingly nervous and approaches her son, Luke, who is probably eight or nine, as he's looking out the window over the tarmac, and, trying to buck up her spirits, approaches him.

From tvovermind.com's recap:

"Claire walks up behind Luke, who is staring out the window, and hugs him. "You know what would be cool?" Luke asks his mom. "If the plane goes into a storm and it crashes on an island just like in Lost." ... Not pleased to be reminded of the possibility of the plane crashing, Claire pushes away her son and leaves. says to him "pretty cool, huh?" or something like that."

Zari said...

@ TM Lawrence: Your Juliet Haiku –

FAB. u. lous!!! All hands clapping here, feet stomping, and whistling!!!

Word Verf: conate : 1. Form into a cone; 2. Place in a cone, as ice cream; 3. Post-prandial at the prison.

Kiki said...

Zari -- the family is going to fly to Hawaii. Claire, played by Julie Bowen aka Jack's wife, is very nervous about flying. She is talking to her young son who says something like, "Wouldn't it be cool if the plane crashed on some island like in Lost?". Which causes Claire to clutch her stomach and walk away quickly.

I love that show!

Zari said...

THANKS, Teebore!

My 2nd Word Verf -- HEARTWED: My sweet David and me, 40 years May 30th... ;*)

Zari said...

THANKS, to you too, Kiki!

Marebabe said...

@Nikki & Joan: *helpless laughter* Regarding your well-documented N&P-hate, don’t hold back. Say what you really feel. ;)

@Blam & Joan: I understand the dangers of spewing beverages all over one’s computer when reading funny stuff online. But I have a different sort of challenge when I’m at work. I’m a receptionist, which means I answer phones and page people over the intercom, and in general, have to sound professional. It’s HARD sometimes to stifle the giggles when reading some of your comments. But it’s a risk I’m willing to take.
Thanks for all the laughs!

@Zari: Happy happy 40th anniversary on May 30th!

Anonymous said...

I'm feeling down about Sayid, so I'm watching Naveen dance. Bride and Prejudice

Because of Lost I found Naveen and because of Naveen I fell for Bollywood.

So yeah, feeling down.

I like that idea of Sayid being the anti-Jack Bauer. I started watching 24 this year for Anil Kapoor. Jack is not a nice man.

Zari said...

Thanks, Marebabe! You "youngster" at only 35 years! Many, many more happy years. ;)

Rainier said...

@TM Lawrence: (Hurley is, by the way, R2D2)

Much as I found this post entertaining, and wonderful as your posts usually are, I think this is far too dismissive of Hurley. I tend to see Hurley more in the role of the unlikely hero, as when he saved the folks on the beach by driving the bus into the bad guys. It is easy not to take Hurley seriously enough; he does tend to be used to provide comic relief, and his character rarely performs the kinds of heroic actions that the others do so frequently.

He does, however, possess two unique properties that make him a force to be reckoned with: he speaks to the dead, and he (arguably) has a mental illness. This latter property may in fact be what allows him to speak to the dead; it may allow him to be open to seeing and interacting with beings who no longer inhabit the material plane. This ability allows him to act as a conduit for information that may not otherwise be available.

Additionally, Hurley is the most constant and faithful of the group. He gets along with everyone, and is never intentionally unkind. He does his best to always contribute to the group effort; in spite of the fact that he is in poorer physical condition than anyone, he nearly always goes along on the treks "into the Heart of Darkness".

So in your scheme of things I am not quite sure where Hurley fits - but I am thinking maybe Samwise, without whom Frodo could not have completed his quest, and in consequence Middle-Earth would have fallen into darkness.

lower case dan said...

I know it's a little late, but some people were wondering how Locke knew that the bomb was on the plane and if this meant he was in league with Whitmore.

An intriguing possibility, no doubt, but doesn't Locke know what dead people know through their memories? He has the bodies of the people he killed (Whitmore's men) - so wouldn't he now know everythint that they did?

Joan Crawford said...

@L.C. Dan - An intriguing possibility, no doubt, but doesn't Locke know what dead people know through their memories? He has the bodies of the people he killed (Whitmore's men) - so wouldn't he now know everythint that they did?

D'oh! Makes sense. I wonder though how he knew only some of the people on the sub were dead?

Austin Gorton said...

@lower case dan: An intriguing possibility, no doubt, but doesn't Locke know what dead people know through their memories?

I think he only knows dead people's memories if he takes their form, and since he's locked into Locke, he wouldn't be able to gleam any additional knowledge from newly-deceased people.

@Joan I wonder though how he knew only some of the people on the sub were dead?

I think he just knows that he's still trapped, which means at least one person is still alive.

Kotowski said...

I think that Jack will be the new Man in White. Each episode is gearing to this, and I noticed this...May 23rd is the finale. Jack Shephard is #23, his seat is 23B, and Sayid said "Because it's going to be you, Jack."

Gracie said...

WHOA @ Marebabe!! That's FANTASTIC news. All of it. The job, the gift of cash, and the planned trip.

I hope it's everything you want it to be and then some!

C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S !!!!

Joan Crawford said...

@Marebabe - Congratulations! “So, are you gonna squirrel that away, saving towards your trip next January?" Aww, you guys are adorable :D

@Zari - Congratulations to you two!

Donnie said...

I think it ends with Jack ending the island reality and by end I mean the whole world. Jacob said it only ends once. I think this is what he meant. His faith in humanity is his faith that they will do the right thing when truly enlightened. This is the natural course of things. Jack was always meant to bring it to the end. Perhaps there were other candidates before but we had not "progressed" to that point. Jack is the result of that progress.

The MIB and Jacob are enlightened beings, not gods. Jacob has always believed in natural law. His perception though is what he has been enlightened to is that love, although deviant from natural order/law, will allow man to see his destiny and reason for being clearly, bring enlightenment. That's the progress, we will have evolved to the point where we have made "love" apart of the natural order of things. Then it ends. "it only ends once".

The MIB has a different perception of what he has been enlightened to. He is evil because he wants to stop the natural order of things. His understanding of "love" is that he can use it as a manipulative tool to use man to subvert what is destined to be. Where he will go and infect the world with this thinking is really what needs to be stopped to because he has become privy to something Jacob has done.

The sideways world is not real, at least not yet. Although there is negative aspects to this world it seems that things will work out in this world without much consequence. Man is not yet enlightened. Not evolved enough to make this world a reality. Jacob created this world along with "the candidates". His touch and intervention allowed them to create this world through their perception of what his intervention (even if it is subconcious) meant. That world is not yet ready to exist.

Love. The key, the constant yet the variable. Our creation. Not natural. Yet it is what Jacob knows will allow what needs to occur to occur and yet save us and through our own design with a little (sorry for this) divine intervention.

Desmond will allow Jack to see things through this lense and bring him enlightenment just as he did for Sayid who was a lot more lucid through the whole episode this week, not just at this end.

Jack will understand that he was right and wrong about things. There is a natural order to things but yet it is unavoidable, like a destiny. He will be enlightened and understand that for the misery to end and for that other world to become a reality, this one, which he now understands, must end.

In destroying it and coming to understand his reason for being and why he is "the one" (ewww, sorry again) Jack will also prevent the MIB from getting to this new reality which is where he wants to go, to keep subverting his own destiny. If he were to get there, there is no evolving, and man has not made any progress. If he stays on that island and in this reality and also understands that Jacob was right and that he lost, he will no longer exist and this will allow us more control over our destinies in this new reality.

There will be no Jacob and no MIB. Natural order and law will not include love. Progress will have been made, the game will have ended and reality will come to the sideways world which will also mean that not everything will be hunky dory in this new world. Sayid will go to jail as will Kate. Others will have a chance at hapiness and of course Jack will die in both worlds, making the sacrifice that needs to be made for this to all happen.

That's all I got for now. I think it makes a little sense, at least I hope.

Donnie said...

one last thing. The MIB will be rendered powerless when the survivors realize that it is their perception of what he is that makes him powerful. Eko was onto this but in the end allowed him to kill him and gave him the power. He was broken by the image of his brother. Jack is on the right track now, "if we do nothing, nothing will happen:. Jack will figure things out, as Desmond did (he was not scared of him and even when dumped down the well, he was not killed) and the MIB will no longer have power. It's all in the perception. Who knows, maybe the MIB will then see things differently and help Jack and company.

Donnie said...

There will be no Jacob and no MIB. Natural order and law will not include love.

That should say "will now include love".

Benny said...

@Teebore/Kiki: RE: Losties killing themselves.

I think that the issue is 'intended suicide' versus actions that lead to one's death. That's my take on it at least. For example, Jack lighting the dynamite in the Black Rock was setup as intending to kill himself, James removing the wires was not.


@L.C. Dan/Joan: I ditto Teebore on both counts!

Blam said...


I have to share the dialogue I'd have shouted out for Jack if we were MST3K'ing this episode:

"C4? He sank my battleship!"

PS: I'm sitting in my grandmother's dentist's office right now (posting later), and just heard the phrase "bilingual flanges". Somehow I thought the folks here would appreciate that.

Blam said...


Fred: Not you alone, Blam, this has been one of the main criticisms of LOST. In the end, the LOST universe is white, male, and American. Still it did for some time offer a wider view of the world, though an Americanized point of view--I mean, no show offered so much non-English dialgoue, nor portrayed so many foreign characters in a postive light. Kudos to the writers of LOST for doing so. But with wrapping the show up, the narrative demands a narrowing of the field of main characters, and we seem to be following the first few minutes of the Pilot in reverse--the main ones then were Jack, Kate, Hurley and Claire; at least those were the ones we spent the most time with. I can live with this resolving characters down to a few, because we always have the LA X timeline where we'll see Jin and Sun, and everyone else.

I'm sorry for not responding to this before, but I probably neglected to paste it into TextEdit for a reply because I really have nothing to add. As I noted above to Poggy, despite my discomfort with the loss of three prominent characters of color in quick succession, leaving us with mostly, if you will, "live white males", I've appreciated the prominence given foreign/minority figures on the show. I kinda hate the term "white", by the way, but it gets the job done.

VW: antanaut — One who travels among insects of the Formicidae family (cf. Henry Pym).

Blam said...


Batcabbage: Ha ha, eat a dick, Anthony so-called Cooper!

It's Richard, actually.

Joan: "More wine? Say, did I happen to mention how it is a submarine dives and rises? No? Well..."

"... Oh, I must admit that I came by this information quite by accident. But I found it fascinating — so much so, in fact, that I simply had to make sure that I remembered it exactly, so I snapped the neck of the gentleman who shared it and partook of his flesh. How do you like the pot roast?"

Kotowski: Great stuff on Jack and Locke!

Rainier: Last time they were locked in the cages, Kate climbed out through the top. This time, she is reaching through the bars trying to get the keys...why?

And why didn't she take off her shoes and try to grab them with her toes?

Gracie: I'm passing everyone a message from my Child, age 19 going on 37. She wishes everyone to know that when the credits roll after the very last show we will know exactly who lived and who died.

I'm gonna hold her to that. 8^)

Sagacious Penguin said...

Oh dear... 257 comments and I'm just arriving to the party! OK - here... we... GO!

(loved the episode, by the way. Felt like Season Finale material already!)

Blam said...


Gracie: WV: dumbo. A really great idea for an animated movie! We could get Walt Disney to do it, and maybe it would star.......I don't know.....an elephant

Hahahahahaha!!!

Rainier: Oh, Blam, I always love your VWs so much - but I loved this one more than usual.

I appreciate the kind words, and back atcha with "refisa - a denial of an entry permit into a country".

TM Lawrence: Juliet's greatest birthing miracle? LA X reality.

Not just a great haiku, but a very insightful comment...!

Zari: conate ... Post-prandial at the prison.

Aaaaahahahahaha!!!!! I'd wish you a happy impending anniversary now, but I hope we're all still here a week after the Lost finale to wish you well closer to the day.

VW: spitiv — A saliva drip.

TM Lawrence said...

@ Rainier:

Hurley is all that and a bag of chips. Calling Hurley R2-D2 is, at least in my reading of the Star Wars narrative, a sincere and deeply appreciative honorific. R2-D2 is the stalwart companion to the Skywalker clan and has saved their galactic butts many a time. I would go nowhere without him.

Hurley's role in Lost is glue, R2-D2 glue. Follow him, would I not. Behind leave him, would I not.

Down and out, island fever? Play a game of Hurley golf.

Downcast, outcast, linguistically shut out? Pull skeletal papa from the vanagon of Peace & Love, and get your chakras aligned over stale beer while bad luck is vanquished.

Hurley has my utmost respect, and I should not have shortchanged him in my haste.

Convergence said...

@Kiki

Re your "M.A.S.H." comments, I wondered that too. Jorge (playing Hurley) did such a masterful job breaking down in tears I wondered if the real emotions the actors must have been feeling filming the final episodes helps them realistically play those scenes.

Another example: Remember the scene where Katey Segal (Helen) hugs and kisses Matthew Shepard (Jack) for saving Locke's life in the AU after Desmond ran over him? Take another look at that kiss she gives Jack, Pretty close to the lips, not really appropriate for the characters but definitely appropriate for members of a cast about to say their goodbyes to each other.

@Nikki:

I'm looking forward to your next book. I'm new this year to your blog, but my loved one and I have purchased and read every one of your books from the beginning and absolutely loved them. You have helped so much in adding extra dimensions to the show. I'm sorry it took me so long to find your blog, but I was definitely drawn here by your books.

I wonder if anyone affiliated with the show ever comes here? Your books are so prominent you'd think they'd check out your blog.

Finally, here's a little tantalizing teaser for you all. I am definitely NOT affiliated in any way with the show. But ... I did know Matthew Shepard personally when we were each in our 20s. All I'm going to tell you is, he is (or at least, was, back then) an enormously nice guy in person. The positive way many of you think of Hurley on the show? That was Matt in person.

Also, he was definitely a girl magnet back then. I'd come around a corner and he'd be standing in the hallway with six girls standing around talking with him. It's not that he was a hound. Rather, he was a good looking guy and so nice I think they just gravitated towards him.

WV: comesod: What you say to your friend when you want him to help you with yardwork. ("Dude? Want to comesod with me this weekend?")

Jazzygirl said...

Nikki, the preview I saw revealed all new footage except for Locke holding up the backgammon pieces. My preview showed Jacob and MIB sitting across a game board.

Benny said...

@Jazzgirl: That's what I saw too (ABC HD).

Also, there's a new sneak peak on Facebook... possibly a bit spoilery but I thought it was more of a tease than spoiler!

Rainier said...

@TM Lawrence:

I agree with you about R2D2, but he is necessarily limited by virtue of being a machine. And I do not agree with you about not following Hurley; the only thing that holds him back from being able to take on a leadership role is his lack of self-confidence.

The island golf was actually a prime example; while everyone else was ready to fold under the stress of the situation, Hurley quietly went off and found a way to relieve it. Even Jack was astounded at his ingenuity in that situation.

In the AU, he is a successful businessman; cast there into a leadership position, he shines. His gentle nature and intuitive understanding of people give him the potential to be the best leader among the group.

Joan Crawford said...

@T.M.L. - Hurley's role in Lost is glue, R2-D2 glue. Follow him, would I not. Behind leave him, would I not.

If ever I meet you in person, my friend, drinks are on me* for this very sentence alone.


*And by that I mean I would insist you spoke like this the entire night.


@Blam Skin Gloves - so I snapped the neck of the gentleman who shared it and partook of his flesh.

I am confused...how else does one fully absorb something? When I said I enjoyed it - I meant it.


vw:Ingra

Olga's ungrateful sister.

Gracie said...

Fred: Locke does seem acceptant of Claire (at least for the moment), so unless she is a pawn to be used for the moment she definitely is back on his side.

Fred raises something here that I've been pondering for the past several weeks. I have three differing theories on the FLocke/Claire relationship. The first I can only lay out simply. I can't get to end game with it.

1. For FLocke, Claire can tie him to Jack and to Christian (?), should he need some kind of connection there. There seems to be a lot of discussion on here about who Christian actually was and when, so I don't know if that could be of any meaning. Any thoughts out there on this one? (I like this one the least because in both realities Christian is still dead, and I can't find any reason why FLocke would want/need him.)

2. Claire is the natural mother of Aaron, and Aaron is still important, although we don't know that yet or why. Maybe Flocke wants Aaron.

3. Having been chained to this island for God knows how long, MIB is looking at Claire to mother (?) the next generation of Smokey Juniors. I keep wondering if you could peel off the FLocke layer of MIB, what would be underneath? If it's Titus Welliver, can he have sex? Can he father children? Whatever is underneath, can it reproduce with a human female? I like this idea the best because he does seem to have a specific reason for keeping Claire around, especially when he could have gotten rid of her so easily and so long ago.

That should give everyone something to chew on for a bit.

Susan said...

Blam: "I have to share the dialogue I'd have shouted out for Jack if we were MST3K'ing this episode:
"C4? He sank my battleship!"

Hilarious! In our family we are always MST3King everything we watch.

To everyone re R2D2 and Hurley: I suggest you rewatch all 6 Star Wars movies, paying special attention to R2. I have long maintained that he is the puppet master in that universe.

vw: redog -- one of the colored dogs in Go Dog Go (sorry I've been catching up on Flashforward and have Dr. Seuss on the brain).

Gracie said...

@Fred again since Fred seems to be reading parts of my mind (how frightening is that?)

I had the feeling that the entire sub thing was a set-up in two different ways:

1. Widmore only brought his dimmest (I'm being kind!) associates with him, and hired killers whom he really didn't care about because he knew they would not be needed for long, AND it's not like he planned to take them back with him, is it? With his connections and his money, if Zoe is the best he can find, he has bigger problems than we've seen. And my daughter can shoot better than some of his hired killers!

2. Somehow FLocke planned for one of those people to shoot Kate. Her shooting, which was meant to wing her, not kill her, was the only way I could see to get Jack in the sub, and FLocke knew that Jack being Jack, he'd assure her safety and get her down the hatch. TADA: Jack is onboard! And if anyone was thinking that FLocke was somehow involved in Kate's shooting, all they had to do was look, because FLocke was busy shooting back.

It just seemed to work out too well for FLocke all the way around. I believe in coincidences, but that just worked out too well all the way around for FLocke.

crazyinlost said...

@Virginia Katz-"Jack always has a patch of skin showing between his shirt and his pants when he kneels down, but Sawyer never does, hmmmm....."

That's because Jack always wears tee shirts, which tend to ride up if not tucked in, and Sawyer always wears button up shirts, that have tails that are longer, so you can tuck them in. His tails are probabally covering up his tail!

crazyinlost said...

@Superbad-"Lastly, why does anyone even question jack being THE candidate. He was the first person we saw on this show, it has always Been jack vs lock. So why not the end?"

I like that alot! It has been rolling around in my head way in the back, but reading this made me go, "YES"!

@DavidB226Morris-(I'm also going to say this once, because it needs to be said. When the raft blew up in Season 1, they were in the middle of the ocean, but Jin managed to float to safety somehow. In Season 4, Jin survived the freighter being blown up, and jumped with the island even though, by then the freighter was miles away. Is it possible, just possible that, he might be the candidate and that the island might save him?..."

I have been mulling this comment over (what I could remember about it) after rewatching the sub scene again last night, and had to go back and see who wrote this. Did anyone notice when they let go hands, it looks like Jin lets go of Sun, and they dont show Jin, but they show Sun's limp hand go down next to her limp body with her head down. Why wouldn't they have showed Jin's limp body also?

Gracie said...

@Fred and Teebore: With a candidates name crossed out, does that mean Smokie can kill them?

For what it's worth, I've always assumed as much.


I've assumed somewhat the same but with a twist. Since I believe the lighthouse is Jacob's and the cave is MIB's, I've left open the possibility that some names MIB has crossed off might have been based on assumptions that HE made. Maybe MIB doesn't think Jacob would actually elect Kate to be the Replacement because she's a woman? This doesn't seem to me to be something those two would actually talk about over dinner, so how could MIB know to cross off someone? Unless they were dead? Another example would have been Sayid, who could have been crossed off based on the assumption that he was dead/taken/ill/zombiefied. (I still don't know what exactly the writers want us to think really happened to Sayid.) If the lighthouse was Jacob's and the cave is MIB's, how could MIB know what Jacob was doing and always be correct?

I have some doubt here, and am leaving open the possibility that crossing Kate's name off the ceiling was MIB's (possibly fatal) mistake.

Gracie said...

Teebore: That, for all the angst he has over crippling his father as well as himself, at least Locke gets to live believing his father is a good man, ignorant of the truth?

This would be all fine and well except in that same reality Sawyer already knows better, and he is still looking for our Dear Mr. Cooper. I wonder if, in this reality, Sawyer will find out what happened to him or where he is now?

Imagine spending your ENTIRE life looking for the person who did this to your family, and when you finally find him, THIS is what you'd find. Ouch!

crazyinlost said...

@Nurse Brian-"- Kate shot? Meh. Sun trapped behind metal debris? ZOMG!!!!!!11!!one!111!"

And just what was that metal debris and how exactally did Sun get trapped behind it? When I was rewatching this scene last night, I just couldn't connect to where these metal things came from, and how are they magically connected to the sub WITH Sun behind them?

and..."For a body to emerge… from ANOTHER body, you women are amazing."

Thanks for the shout out. As a woman having had 2 C-sections, the first one being stuck in the birht canal that the doc had to forcefully pull him out-glad I didnt feel a thing!

Also, MANY Thanks to whoever it was that suggested opening 2 tabs-one to read the posts and one to comment on-this is amazing! (I think it was Rainier)

Gracie said...

@Fred: What would happen if one of the remaining candidates simply said, I'm not a candidate anymore?
This is a fascinating question, but it starts a circle of unanswered questions. What makes a candidate a candidate to begin with in Jacob's eyes? Was Jacob once himself a candidate? Can they change their candidacy (if touched while young) by how they behave in life before they get to the island? Can they be candidates and never even get to the island before their name is crossed off? What do they have to do to disqualify themselves or to become disqualified by Jacob? What is it about them that makes Jacob take notice that makes them candidates? Are they all somehow connected over time beyond Oceanic 815 and the island? Once touched, can they be in a car accident and die from it? (Or something else prior to the island?) And what happens to the entire candidacy thing if they all said, "I'm not interested, and you can keep me here, but I refuse to be guardian for your island bad boy."? From what we saw, Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, and possibly Kate are the only ones left. What if they just said, "Bite me."? I thought of this back when we first learned of the whole candidate idea, but couldn't stay ahead of all the questions that followed, like what MAKES a candidate?

You (among others) also said,"Locke becomes paralyzed in a plane crash."

I'm not sure yet if this is important, but Helen wouldn't say as far as we know, and Cooper ain't talking, but we might want to keep in mind that in this reality Locke has told a few little fibs here and there. He lied to Randy about his trip, lied to Helen about the trip afterwards, and most obviously, lied to Boone about the Walkabout. So if Helen didn't say anything, and the nursing home couldn't say anything, is it safe to believe John Locke's story about his plane crash at all? Maybe that's not EXACTLY what put Cooper in a home? Just a thought.

crazyinlost said...

@Blam-"I can't believe I totally forgot to mention Bernard the Zen Dentist (Zentist?)."
LOL!

@Fred-"I can live with this resolving characters down to a few, because we always have the LA X timeline where we'll see Jin and Sun, and everyone else."
But WILL we see them again in the SW? I still think the two worlds will rise and converge into something totally different.

and..." We'd all assumed Jacob was here eternally, but no, he needs a replacement. Why?"
Maybe because he was killed. He knew MIB would find the loophole, so he knew he needed to find someone to replace him, and he has been looking for hundreds of years?

and..." And where the heck is Vincent?"
Thats so funny you mention this. Did you happen to see Jorge Garcia on Jimmy Kimmel right after this ep? JK asks him if he would spoil the finale for the audience and JG replies, "Vincent dies", as he laughs...I hope he was joking!

Can anyone explain to me how to use the HTML tags? It's getting redundant just capitalizing things.
Thanks!

Gracie said...

@Crazy: Are you pulling an all-nighter too? It's been so long since I haven't had a headache, I just want to stay awake and enjoy it. I'm gonna give a go at the HTML tags, since others were kind enough to teach me, but I'm not sure how I'll do. I hope you're feeling patient. Explanation to follow. Please reply if you're still up.

WV: obensect. An obese insect?

crazyinlost said...

@Kotowski-"The only 815ers left (against MIB) are Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley. These are the same four that were requested to travel with Michael to obtain Walt from the Others, who got their commands from Jacob. Is this meaningful? Are these specific four extremely special to Jacob?"
Wow, I never thought of that, but, Wow!

word verif-droar-where the 'Sawyer' file was!

and..." Anyway, it was very interesting to see Anthony Cooper as a vegetable, and to learn that it was Locke's fault."
Yeah, kinda the reverse of the real world, only John is beating himself up over it, where in real world, AC could've cared less.

Oh, and I loved the bamboo staircase up to the airplane!

crazyinlost said...

@Gracie-yes I am still up. I am at work (shift is 8:45pm to 6:45am-10hr shift)I work 7days on and 7days off. I love it. I am definitely a night owl, and having a week off every other week is fab.
It's been a REALLY (see?)slow night tonight! If you are up to teachin, I'm up to learnin!

Gracie said...

@Kiki said:I think Widmore -- I'm assuming the two are not working together -- needs to keep the candidates alive.

I agree with you except for this. I think Widmore knows the island is a very special little place with healing properties that he wants to exploit for every little penny it's worth. That little building he has is for MIB, I think. Something that will kill him/it. Then if he kills off everyone else, nobody will ever know what he's done to control this place. And it's all his for the taking. He just has to live to tell about it. I'm hoping he won't. Just MHO, of course.

Gracie said...

@Crazyinlost: Okay, here goes. There are three listed below, but I guess you can go on the Internet to learn others. I haven't found it necessary because these three pretty much cover it. The b is for bold, the I is italics, and the a is for underlining. Somebody told me why that wasn't a u, but I don't recall what the reason was. Down below where it shows them, the things in front and behind them are brackets, although some people call them carets (sp?). You should only need to be shown one; after that you just get it and change it to what you want it to be. For my kindergarten demonstration, * will be a bracket pointing left, and & will be a bracket pointing right. Asterisk is left. Ampersand is right. Brackets are located on the bottom row of your keyboard. You also need a / sign to close what you want to highlight. I will explain first, and then just type it. If you type just what I tell you to, you'll be fine. Do NOT space unless I did. It's easier to understand EXACTLY what to type if commas are left out. I don't know how this is actually gonna turn out in the comment box. It might put spaces where we don't want them.

First you type an * to open it and put what you want to do next like b for Bold. Then the &. Then type what you want to say. Do not space when you're finished. Do another * then your / to say your closing it another b and then do your & to finish. So if you type it like below replacing my * and & signs for brackets, it should work.

*b&Crazyinlost is actually learning to highlight from Gracie. Imagine that.*/b&

Good Luck!
SPECIAL THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HELPED ME!!!!

Gracie said...

<000099>I wonder if colors work?</000099/

Probably not.

crazyinlost said...

@redeem147-"Especially when I remembered that he was the one who was there for Sun when she thought she'd lost Jin."
Yes, and when Hurley, Jack and Richard showed up at the old beach sight, Sun ran up to Hurley first and gave him as big of a hug as she could-love that scene!

Gracie said...

Trying again.

crazyinlost said...

Okay, I'm gonna give this a try:

*a&I/a&
*b&LOVE/b&
*i&Lost/i&

Did it work?

Gracie said...

Crazy: Reread my instructions. You have to put a < where I put an asterisk, and > this one where I put an ampersand. I'm not sure you can actually type a bracket in this box unless you're using HTML.

Gracie said...

Type out the example sentence I gave you replacing the asterisk and the ampersand with the correct bracket, or just keep playing with it. You'll get it.

Gracie said...

@Benny, Fred and Teebore (among others): I would love to see the notebooks you have kept on this show. To know exactly what happened when, to whom, and in what order, is Nikki-ish. Did you notice the color of Talbot's eyes too?

You people amaze me!

crazyinlost said...

@Gracie-I keep getting the message, "Your HTML cannot be accepted: Tag is not closed:"
I'm thinking this computer at work (the computer I use most for blogging) may not accept HTML tags, so I will give this another go at home on my own computer.

Thanks so much for the tips!

Gracie said...

I've been reading all the comments on the page about Jack being The One, and I have to say that IF he is, I'm gonna be sorely disappointed. Like, who DIDN'T see that coming?

Jack and Locke have been at each others throat since Day One, and it has always seemed so obvious to me that it just HAD to be someone else. How many times have we said, "Whoa, didn't see THAT coming?" There's no shock value.

I still have my One, and I still hope I'm wrong, but at least it'll be different than the expected. And it can be explained.

crazyinlost said...

@redeem147-"I need a break. Maybe the next one will be a musical episode."
Are you getting ready for Eureka?ha

word verif-aggies-anyone for a game of marbles?

Gracie said...

Kiki said...
Fred -- Interesting game theory. Kind of like a giant games of the Sims. You've got me thinking! Is the game just a way for people to make their lives more exciting?


Okay, first I have a confession. Please don't spit at my monitor. I'm not a huge Star Wars fan. I saw the first three and barely remember the second and third one. I got them and I understood them, but it wasn't a highlight of my life like it was for others. Science Fiction was never a highlight for me. Until Lost.

But along the lines of what Kiki is saying here: There's been a lot of talk in this show about games, game playing, choosing sides, strategy, etc.

What if Lost turned out to be very similar to the chess board that Chewbacca (I think) was playing with? Except it's an island? With real living people? And the last thing we see is the camera panning back to expose MIB and Jacob playing this "game"? Or any two people playing a game like Chewies that involves the lives and deaths of other real people?

Okay, Star Wars fans, let me have it!

Gracie said...

Kotowski, David and Teebore: Thanks for telling me my head was on straight. Sometimes I need that.

Question for Teebore: If they can kill themselves, then why didn't the dynamite that Jack lit with Richard explode? Because the island isn't finished with him yet? And the power of the island being stronger is all the protection they need?

THEN what made the island "done" with Sayid, Jin and Sun? Don't they have the same protections as anybody else who is a candidate? Or at least one Kwon should have.

I really need to go to sleep.
Thanks.

JS said...

OK, so I FINALLY watched it, in full, last night. Unfortunately I didn’t have the same emotional reaction everyone else had because, of course, I completely spoiled myself and couldn’t wait to read blog & comments. The thing that hid me the hardest was Sayid. That was a Charlie level sacrifice.

Couple items I haven’t seen us discuss much yet:
Parallel Lines or power lines, or Paulo lies……
- Jack to Locke - Welcome back :: FLocke to Ben – Welcome back (to the land of the living)
- Bernard to Jack – Hope you find what you are looking for :: Kate to Jack – I hope you find what you are looking for (S4)

Locke’s eye scar - It was fairly obvious this episode, (and I have brought this up before) but ever since FLocke took on Locke’s identity, the top part of the scar, over the eye, has been gone. Were the top and bottom parts of the scar some sort of balance that has been lost because it is now FLocke?

Father of the year Anthony Cooper was actually catatonic, not a vegetable, which is more of a psychological state. Can a vegetable sit up like that with his eyes open (with which to win staring contests – oh, Joan, you crack me up!)?

Locke’s plane crash Speaking of the accident, @Fred, @Gracie, et al - I was curious about the plane crash story (excellent scene, BTW, that whole hallway conversation was amazingly acted, particularly by O’Quinn) since he “doesn’t really know what I did wrong”. Kind of like Jack not remembering having his appendix out? hmm

Kate is Fate @Ninja Raiden, @Rainer, @Gracie – I agree, as others have said, that Kate is the ace in the hole, the one discrepancy between Jacob’s list and MiB’s list. MiB has his own criteria for crossing names out, and somehow, Kate did something that made him think she was no longer a candidate. I think this will be his biggest mistake. I would like to see FLocke say “I was wrong”, since we are repeating lines from prior seasons anyway…..

The Shepards @Benny, et al - Though it does seem Christian died in the same way, Jack’s reason for going down was to get his body, NOT to bring him back on his mother’s orders because it was HIS fault. That makes for a completely different Jack. His lack of, let’s say, self centered fear based decision making, (aka dickheadedness), in the ATL must be because he had a much better relationship with his father. ALSO, though “Catch a falling star” means something in the original timeline because Christian sang it to Claire as a baby, in the ATL, she never met him. Why would he give it to her? Was he still down there to try to meet her? Was her mother still in a coma (from which she amazingly recovered and became a completely different actress, I mean person)?

JS said...

Charles Widmore I have to say, I am not coming up with anything on his motivations. Even if he somehow gets control of the island, what is he going to do? Trade places with the smoke monster? Why? How does he know Smokey is coming? He (and Eloise) know way too much for my comfort. I expect a full explanation of how they got their knowledge and what their motivations are. I also expect to be disappointed. ALSO, clearly, Widmore isn’t expecting to leave, and we already know he thinks anyone working for him is expendable (see-freighter). The fact that he brought scientists to a gun fight tells me he doesn’t really expect to get anything done with guns and explosives, and this is all a masking of his true intentions. Which isn’t new. Who wants to get shot by a GEO-physicist?

Technology Someone else said (I’m sorry) that perhaps the issue with Smokey and technology (I think we have established it was him in the cabin, not Jacob) is that he is very good at it, and figures things out quickly, in addition to whatever interaction he would have with it electromagnetically. He took the watch because he already had a plan for it. Whether he read the minds of the dead people (without smoke-pictures?) or it was some sort of gimme from Widmore, it would have taken him quite a bit of expertise, never mind time, while walking, to put that together. Maybe his electromagnetism gives him an affinity for taking advantage of whatever technology he comes in contact with. @Gracie - I agree it did work out very well for FLocke, though he has been at this for a few hundred/thousand years.

@Crazyinlost: That's because Jack always wears tee shirts, which tend to ride up if not tucked in….
Well thank God for small favors. Is it me or did he look especially delicious this episode? ;p

Gun (for) show Last observation (for now) – The cocking of the guns. It is actually comical now. I Lol’d. And, Sun only ever had a gun when she wanted to shoot Ben, off the island, and it came in chocolate. I don’t ever remember her having one on island. But now that she needs one, she doesn’t get one? C’mon.

Lisa(until further notice) said...

@JS: re: Jack: "Well thank God for small favors. Is it me or did he look especially delicious this episode?"

As Dora the Explorer would say:
"Delicioso"

Batcabbage said...

While we are all sad about the death of Jin and Sun, I have found some light at the end of the... imploded submarine hull. Today, whilst being forced by my beloved Batkitty to watch Beverly Hills 90210 Season 8 (she totally forced me, I didn't watch the first three episodes while she was at work, of my own volition, so I could catch up to where she watched last night while I was out drinking), and I've found that our beloved Jin was Kelly's doctor after she got shot by a violence gang and lost her memory! Isn't it a miracle? He hasn't aged a dae (you know, as in Daniel? Heheh... oh, bollocks), either. Anyway... that was almost relevant, wasn't it?

VW: ultimsts - those who shun the traditional Marvel Universe, preferring the creation of Bendis and Millar.

Fred said...

@Gracie:@Fred: What would happen if one of the remaining candidates simply said, I'm not a candidate anymore?

Isn't this what has happened with Bernard and Rose? They just up and said, enough, I'm not playing anymore. We're retired, and damn it we're going to enjoy it. Here's hoping their plan worked.

Henderson was noted and crossed out on the compass rose at the lighthouse. Henderson is possibly a reference to Rose.

Susan said...

JS remember that Sun shot and killed Colleen in season 3.

Gracie said...

@JS: You have commented on something that I have never seen before anywhere, on any site, written by anybody, about Lost. And this is a running laugh in our home.

My Spouse is a gun collector. Has been all his life. Long, ago and far away he pointed out to me that there really is no point in running through the jungle with a gun, scared half out of your wits, being chased by God knows what, with boars and monsters out there, as well as Jacks and Lockes, and NOT having your gun cocked. What I personally love, is when they don't even have a round chambered.

On one of my DVD's Sawyer, I think, did a "Bonus Feature" called "Best Cock". (Pardon me.) We laughed until we thought we'd fall over.

(Does everyone remember the episode where Michael is leading everyone on HIS list across the island after helping Henry Gale/Ben escape, and Michael suddenly needs his gun. Only to discover that Jack didn't even load it, and Michael's cover had been blown? HAHAHA! Who would be on THIS island and not even check for themselves? More important than your American Express, Folks.)

Thank you for the laugh, JS. I can always use an extra. :)

WV: nestor. OMG! Most beautiful eyes on Lost goes to Nestor with or without eyeliner. And you need never worry about being kicked out of MY bed.

Austin Gorton said...

@Gracie: Question for Teebore: If they can kill themselves, then why didn't the dynamite that Jack lit with Richard explode? Because the island isn't finished with him yet? And the power of the island being stronger is all the protection they need?

THEN what made the island "done" with Sayid, Jin and Sun? Don't they have the same protections as anybody else who is a candidate? Or at least one Kwon should have.


I think there's a few things going on here.

1. There might be a distinction between killing themselves and killing each other

If Jack put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger, it would jam. If he pointed the same gun at Sawyer and pulled the trigger, it would fire and kill him (if the island was done with him...more on that later).

2. There's definitely something to what Benny said earlier about intent:

I think that the issue is 'intended suicide' versus actions that lead to one's death. That's my take on it at least. For example, Jack lighting the dynamite in the Black Rock was setup as intending to kill himself, James removing the wires was not.

I'm completely on board with that.

3. I think there is a difference between being protected by "the rules" (FLocke can't kill Jacob or the candidates himself, but other people can kill the candidates) and being protected because "the island" isn't done with you (FLocke can't kill Jack because he's a candidate, but no one else can kill Jack either because the island isn't done with him, whereas FLocke can't kill Sun because she's a candidate, but a bomb armed by Sawyer can, because the island is done with her).

That's all supposition on my part, but I think "island" protection overrides "rules" protection. After all, if the island isn't done with someone yet, FLocke wouldn't be able to kill that person, rules or no rules, candidate or not.

So why is the island done with Sayid, Sun and Jin now? I have no idea. We'll probably never know. It just was.

The island, like destiny, is a fickle b!tch. :)

@Batcabbage: I've found that our beloved Jin was Kelly's doctor after she got shot by a violence gang and lost her memory! Isn't it a miracle? He hasn't aged a dae

1. Great pun!
2. My wife was watching an episode of Angel last night when I got home from work that featured Jin as Gavin, evil Wolfram and Hart lawyer.
3. It's been so long since I saw that episode of 90210 (I probably last saw it live, when it initially aired) that I had no idea Jin was in it. He's seriously all over TV.
4. Glad I'm not the only 90210 fan around (though I'll warn you: you're in for a rocky season). I love that show way more than I should. :)

Gracie said...

Ok Benny looks like you're the lucky one:

I have often seen on here the mention of something like "the Ab Aeterno enhanced" or something else "enhanced". Benny, if you recall, I hadn't watched TV for years until I ended up in this chair. So call me Dated. Antique. I'm fine with all that.

But when you mention something enhanced, is that a feature on your TV, or are you going somewhere on-line perhaps to see it enhanced, or just what the heck are you talking about? And what's the difference between what I'm seeing on Lost on my TV every Tuesday night and "Lost enhanced"? Is it two different versions of the same episode?

Help me out Benny!

WV: regos. Goes again?

JS said...

@Susan - of course you are right, she shot Colleen. My point is, besides Rose, (and maybe Hurley) she seems to have the least gun time of any major character. She used to be so badass. Sigh.

Austin Gorton said...

@Gracie: re: enhanced episodes.

I'll jump in for Benny here (I assume he won't mind).

The enhanced episodes are rerun episodes of the previous week's episode, "enhanced" with little bits of info that pop up on the bottom of the screen.

These enhanced reruns usually air in the hour before the next new episode. So, for example, on the night "The Substitute" aired for the first time, it was preceded by an enhanced rerun of "What Kate Does" the hour before.

The following week, "The Substitute" was rerun, enhanced, before "Lighthouse" aired for the first time, and so on.

This practice (new episode preceded by an enhanced rerun) stopped once Dancing With The Stars premiered, and one of its umpteen competition/results shows now precedes a new episode of Lost.

But "Ab Aeterno" received the enhanced treatment when it reran last week, because no new episode aired, so they filled that timeslot with the enhanced rerun.

The info given in pop up factoids is usually pretty basic, the kind of stuff intended to (theoretically) catch up a first time viewer. 'This is Jack. He's a doctor. He likes to fix things, and cries a lot.' That kind of stuff. The popup factoids are written by someone at ABC, and not someone affiliated with Lost, I believe.

I've never made a point to catch the enhanced reruns, but every once in awhile, something worthwhile is revealed or, more likely, clarified, such as in the example Benny gave from "Ab Aeterno."

(There was actually a mild kerfluffle caused by an enhanced episode last season when Ms. Hawking's first name (Eloise) was revealed in an enhanced rerun popup before it had been revealed on the show itself).

Hope that answers your question!

Gracie said...

Teebore said There's definitely something to what Benny said earlier about intent:

I think that the issue is 'intended suicide' versus actions that lead to one's death. That's my take on it at least. For example, Jack lighting the dynamite in the Black Rock was setup as intending to kill himself, James removing the wires was not.


In the Black Rock, let's just say Jack and Richard were trying to intentionally kill themselves. (Richard was, but Jack was kind of just checking his notes on where things stand.) In this example, I understand what you've said.

But although Sawyer was the one who pulled the wires, didn't Sayid basically commit suicide to save his friends? His intent when he ran off with the bomb was pretty much what we saw except maybe he hoped to save everyone. Sun was just going to die of drowning, no help for that. But then didn't Jin commit suicide if he could have saved himself? His intent was to die with his wife, to never leave her again, and that she not die alone. Sayid and Jin had a choice, and they made one. That's suicide if you ask me.

There's a difference in there. If you see that and agree, is it an important difference for the next 4 1/2 hours of Lost?

Gracie said...

Teebore: The enhanced episodes are rerun episodes of the previous week's episode, "enhanced" with little bits of info that pop up on the bottom of the screen.

Ahhhhh. Yes, I used to watch those until ABC decided I REALLY needed to see DWTS. And I did watch the repeated episode. Apparently, I missed the reference to Kate.

Still, I gotta believe Kate could truly be a wildcard to anybody's game.

Austin Gorton said...

@Gracie: didn't Sayid basically commit suicide to save his friends?

But the difference, I think, is in the intent.

Sayid didn't commit suicide because he felt his life was meaningless (like Richard did when he tried). He committed suicide in an effort to save his friends' lives. Same outcome, two different intents. That makes all the difference to me.

Ditto Jin, who died because he refused to leave his dying wife. He chose to stay with her in her last moments rather than save himself. Even though he probably should have left so his daughter wouldn't grow up an orphan, he was (sorta) dying to comfort Sun, not to end his own misery.

Granted, Jin's case is a bit hazier, but I see both cases as being different than what Richard was trying to do in the Black Rock.

Both Jin and Sayid committed suicide in a very technical sense of the word (if Sayid hadn't run off with the bomb, he'd have died when it exploded in that room anyway, after all), but to me, their deaths weren't the same as the suicide Richard was attempting at the Black Rock (or, for that matter, Jack, when he was about to jump off the bridge in the season three finale).

Gracie said...

Teebore: Something about the way you said that last comment about intent makes it a little more, I don't know, acceptable maybe? And I can now see what you guys are saying.

Goes to Nikki's idea of love being a big part of this show, right? I was thinking there couldn't be any other way to think of laying on a bomb other than suicide, but the way you worded it makes it fall under John 15:13.

I've got it.

Incidentally, I saw the episode ("Solitary") last night that introduced us to Danielle and her music box, and I agree with the crowd that although they resemble each other on the outside, they are very different.

Gracie said...

LoyallyLOST said: "I do appreciate those who 'set me straight' that they are kind when they give me the info! You all are great! One of a kind & I am so glad that I am on THIS blog & no where else!"

I would like to second this. Recently, I noticed that I comment a lot and figured I was probably a pain in the tush to others. So last night I tried to take notes on what some of you said so I could refer back to my notes and put my comments in one post. At this time I can't do that unless I write out every word you say, because when I went back to my notes, my mental train had completely derailed. I was Lost. It's like trying to read: by the time I finish the sentence, I forgot how it started. So when you see that I've posted a lot, please keep this is mind. You guys are all brilliant in the things you pick up on and assess, and I often want to comment on your comments. If I don't do that when I read it, I won't be able to do it at all. I also appreciate that nobody is rude about it. And people even jump over each other just to be helpful.

So just know that you guys are all very much appreciated, and your time, trouble and efforts DO NOT go unnoticed. Each one of you should pat yourself on the back if you've ever helped someone see the light. (Very early this morning I was trying to help Crazyinlost learn how to do HTML which I learned from you people!)

And I can't think of a better place for you guys than Nik at Nite.

Benny said...

@JS: Jack's words are indeed different.
I think there is a distinction in why he was in Australia and why he was on Oceanic 815. There is some minor differences. Since Claire never met Christian, then right there it shows an altered life for him. But it is possible, that in the bigger circumstances, Christian's life has not been as different compared to others... of all the lives we've seen, it seems only Claire's is also extremely similar.

Benny said...

@Gracie: I'll second what Teebore said, but I think some of the info is provided, or at least quickly fact-check, by someone who is somewhat related to Lost, though not everything all the time. So there are risks to believing the enhanced. But the one I gave seemed to have been sourced (who would know when Jacob's visit to Ilana took place?), though there still are questions surrounding Kate.


@Gracie: A little to supplement what Teebore said. My own thinking was that Jack's intentions with the dynamite implied suicide 'intentional killing of himself' while Sawyer pulling the wires was 'accidental killing of himself/themseleves'.

Since the bomb is activated, no one can escape and therefore Sayid's actions are not-suicidal and more sacrificial. His actions lead to more people being alive than dead - had he not run away with the bomb.

The idea of the island not being done may be some protection granted from non-candidates, but candidates can kill candidates. That would have been Locke's plan that, with all the candidates together, one's actions (Sawyer's) results in all's death... Sawyer activated the bomb in a non-suicidal way. The unforeseen sacrifice has thrown a wrench in Locke's plan.

Seeing it from this perspective, Sawyer (a candidate) killed Sayid (candidate), Sun & Jin (candidate/non-candidate) and Lapidus (non-candidate)... and WOULD HAVE resulted in the deaths of Kate (non-candidate), Jack, Hurley (candidates), and Sawyer himself (candidate, non-suicidal). Therefore this leads to the interpretation that Sawyer is responsible for their deaths.

Gracie said...

@Benny: Too sweet. I thought I had it, and with your use of semantics, I'm now sure I've got it!

That took some time for you to explain and type out for my benefit as well as the benefit of anyone else who couldn't get past why it wasn't a suicide.

A heartfelt thank you, Benny.

And Teebore, you too!

WV: mical. If I phone you, will you be free to take mical?

Kiki said...

Donnie said -- That should say "will now include love".

Phew! Cause I thought I was following it until the not, then thought I was way lost! (!?!?)

Gracie said...

TO ANYBODY: IMHO being a human being is about being able to think and feel. To feel emotions. To know what happiness means because you know what it feels like to experience that sense of love, peace, and contentment in the depths of your soul. To be able to experience the feelings of joy and wonder (awe) that Nurse Brian expressed above at witnessing the birth of a child. To be able to comprehend sadness and despair, because your heart has been broken once or twice, or just completely left in tattered shreds. To be able to feel and respond to any and all emotions is definitely part of what separates us from some of the less fortunate inhabitants with whom we share a planet. Most people, I think, would agree with that. (Please don't misunderstand - I DO agree that many, many of God's creatures can and do feel emotions. I think ours are enhanced because we are able to think about them and explore what we are feeling. Sometimes to our detriment.)

Nikki, I was finally getting somewhere in your original post, which I could not finish for all this time, when I came to this:

"So when it was clear she was trapped, I was alarmed, and then when they started speaking in Korean, I knew it was all over, and I started sobbing. SOBBING. I was whipping Kleenexes out of the box and really LOUDLY crying, with my husband chuckling on the couch (he has NO HEART. NONE......"

Sounds like your house Tuesday night sounded quite similar to mine. Spouse couldn't wait to crack a joke! Can anybody please explain to me how you can watch a show, or follow a story, like Lost for this long, and not become emotionally invested in these people? I was practically catatonic and completely, well, Lost. Spouse is cracking jokes. (He said, "It's a television show!" Well, I know that, but the writers have reached out and touched me, and the actors have been so good that I've just learned to love each of them even when I don't particularly like them.) How do people do this? Stay detached? And I'm not talking about psychopaths, or schizophrenics or any other 'special' people. (I can hear some of you thinking about Charles Manson.) I'm asking about otherwise normal, intelligent, loving people who just don't ........... what? Connect?

Is there a reasonable, adult explanation for how this is possible?

And, Nikki, your post, and the wording used within, was almost as difficult to get through as the show!! And we have to wait until NOVEMBER for your book? (Groan!)

If anybody can explain this to me, I'd love to hear from "the other perspective".

Gracie said...

Stacy said...
I know this was mentioned but Jack did not have anyway to find Cooper other than his name. Right? Strange that Jack found him so easy and Sawyer is jetting to Australia on false leads.


I assumed Jack would have access to all the hospital paperwork which would start with Cooper being brought in to the E.R., maybe include bringing in an expert to cover the dental mess which resulted from the accident (Bernard), any other specialists who saw Cooper, and where he was sent upon release from the hospital. That would probably include the name of the ambulance service that transported him to his final destination.
Seems reasonable, I think.

Gracie said...

Kotowski said...
Since next week will be the Jacob/MIB backstory, I started thinking about what them and what major questions are still unanswered.

I think MIB and Jacob may be brothers who were raised on the Island, and that Adam and Eve may be their parents. After all, Adam and Eve are holding black and white rocks, so they have some connection to a Man in Black and a Man in White. Anyone else think this could be a possibility?


Kotowski: I don't know if anyone came before me, but I first brought this up shortly after joining this little gang of merry bloggers. With the island as the Garden of Eden. And since that post we have indeed picked up an apple in the storyline, which I asked about then. (At that time the closest we could get to an apple was the tomato Jack gave Sun from her garden.) Nikki did a reply post saying something to the effect of that she really liked my idea, so it sounded like I was the first. But I don't think so. It just seems so obvious. Things on the island are so weird, I wondered if Adam and Eve were actually THE Adam and Eve back when Jack was digging through their pockets.

We have Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, and I believe we are still missing a sister whose name completely escapes me. Adam and Eve apparently had a bunch of kids, but these three, and another son (Seth, I think), got top billing. Ooooh, maybe Seth is the boy running around the jungle playing head games with FLocke??

Paithan1 said...

I sobbed as well over Jin & Sun. It's interesting that you bring up Titanic because I mentioned that to my hubby to explain why I was crying (except I referred to the elderly couple who remained together in their bunk because the wife didn't want to leave the husband. When I finally calmed down, then it hit those on the beach that Jin & Sun were gone, Hurley started to sob, and I was a mess again.

I'm glad Sayid redeemed himself. It made me feel better about where he has gone this season.

Kiki said...

Gracie said -- Question for Teebore: If they can kill themselves, then why didn't the dynamite that Jack lit with Richard explode?

Which episode was that in. I tried to do a quick search of the episodes before but my kids kept nagging me about dinner- sheesh -- like you need food to survive! :)

I wanted to go back and see what Richard said exactly -- or does someone know that without me having to do the work!

Kiki said...

Gracie said...
I've been reading all the comments on the page about Jack being The One, and I have to say that IF he is, I'm gonna be sorely disappointed. Like, who DIDN'T see that coming?


I agree and I don't. How's that for taking a stand! I want something surprising but in the same breath I think the show is about Jack in so many ways. It starts out with Jack and I feel like he leads us into all these other peoples lives. But I guess he does not have to be "the One" in the end. I think they could wind it up in a satisfying way with him as "the One". Or not. There I go again . . . .

Nurse Brian said...

@crazyinlost: RE: Sun’s debris – Seriously though! I completely agree with you on this one. If anything (and I’d have definitely sobbed more if it had happened to her), I’d more likely believe Sun was pierced with some sharp metal debris in the abdomen, pinning her down. Honestly though, regardless if the immovable debris was a plot device, it can never change how hard it was for me to see Daniel and YunJin play out that scene. [Yeah, yeah, I’m a big softie! I KNOW!!!]

And RE: Babies – Wowzers, that must have been a real ordeal with the delivery of your first child! Like I’ve said before, I’ve sat in on a caesarian delivery in the operating room, and it’s just as amazing as those natural births. Given, baby (or babies) escape the womb via a different exit, but amazing nonetheless! I remember when the surgeon manually broke the mother’s water bag, and a foot emerged from the opening! Most of all I remember the mother on the operating table, strapped in, numbed from about the chest down, staring at the ceiling. I could only imagine what could run through your head. The entire medical team is trying to interact with her, talk to her and comfort her, but still. Even when baby is delivered, I know mom still has to lie there for a longer period of time while the surgeon closes her up. Sure she can see baby up close, but I can imagine the psychological difficulty of having to wait for an extended period of time to actually hold your baby.

And as much as I’ve said about the whole birthing process, the entirety of pregnancy is a pretty amazing thing! This semester, I’ve met many pregnant women at the hospital and at obstetric clinics. Ladies, the changes that occur in your bodies in those [average] 37 weeks, and to cope with those changes, you ladies are nothing short of amazing.

I’m a male nursing student. I don’t think I’d specialize in obstetrics because of the sheer difficulty of a male nurse in a women’s hospital (I get that enough from being in an occupation that was [and for the most part, still is] mostly female). But because of this semester, I have nothing but utmost respect for women’s health and the miracle of pregnancy. ALSO, I don’t want to be a boyfriend/husband who knows more about my girlfriend/wife’s vagina than she does.

@Gracie: Thanks for the mention! Also: Hehe, don’t forget a little bit of horror! After watching Mom’s facial expression during labor, I caught glimpses of Dad. In videos I’ve watched and during the “live show”, you see something in Dad’s eyes that emotes just a hint of… let’s go musically here and say “O fortuna” from "Carmina Burana". LOL

Joking aside, I completely agree with you about human beings and emotion!

Gracie said...

@Kiki who asked, "Which episode was that in."

Kiki, I believe you'll find Jack, Richard and the dynamite in "Ab Aeterno."

Benny said...

@Gracie/Kiki: Ab Aeterno was a good thought, since it's a Richard episode, but it is in fact Dr. Linus, in which Jack convinces Richard to join them and go to the beach camp.

The episode was short on on-island Ben stuff, they put some Jack-crew bits.

Kiki said...

JS said -- ALSO, though “Catch a falling star” means something in the original timeline because Christian sang it to Claire as a baby, in the ATL, she never met him. Why would he give it to her?

I think is just a way to say that no matter what time you are in your parents will pass down certain things -- like a favorite song. If Claire knows this is from her father, she might take it to heart and sing it to her soon-to-be born son!

Kiki said...

Gracie said -- On one of my DVD's Sawyer, I think, did a "Bonus Feature" called "Best Cock". (Pardon me.)

No, no, that is quite alright! ;)

Benny said...

@Kiki: I like that idea!

Gracie said...

Oh Benny! Kiki! My bad.

Benny is absolutely right. The lack of sleep is catching up with me! I headed for the Richard episode without giving it a second thought!

Thanks Benny!

WV: gagin. When I make a mistake like this, I just feel like gagin?

Kiki said...

Treebore said -- If Jack put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger, it would jam. If he pointed the same gun at Sawyer and pulled the trigger, it would fire and kill him (if the island was done with him...more on that later).

I think that candidates can kill each other, but I also think that it would then cause them to crossed off the list. My thinking is along the lines that the person that will finally win, has to take the second chance the island has given them and do "right".

Kiki said...

Phew - -cause I skipped Ab Aeterno was totally a Richard episode. So when Gracie suggested, I thought "of course, because it the one I didn't watch!

Yikes! Big hail storm!!!!!

Benny said...

@Kiki: Haha... you said Treebore.

I'm sorry, I'm definitely NOT making fun of you, I just had to mention it. We all make mistakes. I had my share, just ask SonShine, I kept writing Soneshine I think, or something like that.

But Treebore, though really minor, it made me laugh. I guess thank you for that!

Kiki said...

Gracie said -- But although Sawyer was the one who pulled the wires, didn't Sayid basically commit suicide to save his friends? His intent when he ran off with the bomb was pretty much what we saw except maybe he hoped to save everyone. Sun was just going to die of drowning, no help for that. But then didn't Jin commit suicide if he could have saved himself?

And I say "Brilliant!". Which action takes precedence. The original (Sawyer pulling the wires) or the end act. . . Things that make you go hmmmm.

Kiki said...

Treebore!!! Oops! I blame it on the vodka!

Anonymous said...

I don't know if this has been said before... I believe Kate is the one who will enter into the role that Jacob once held. Ahhh you say, her name was crossed off, it can't be her. Jacob crossed off her name as misdirection, to mislead anti-Locke.
Kate has been in a process of having her conscience awakened. I think she'll finally stop running and stay on the island, stepping into Jacob's shoes. Perhaps...with Jack.

T. Furneaux

Gracie said...

@Rain: It is a universal truth that every story has at least 2 sides. Lost is not the only show ever to show us more than 1 side of a story, but they certainly have done so more often :).

I knew almost as soon as I hit the button that somebody was gonna check that and call me on it, and I had it coming. You are absolutely correct. Although Christian did not handle that situation correctly IMHO, Jack has a very selective memory regarding it.

In his defense though, since I have been a child and am a mother, I will say that I think we all do that. We remember aching hearts and growing pains with our parents to suit our relationship with them. Sometimes the story can change day to day depending on how well a child and his/her parents are getting along. Child is wise enough to verify that.

Kiki said...

Teebore said...
@Gracie: didn't Sayid basically commit suicide to save his friends?

But the difference, I think, is in the intent.


Plus I think at this point Sayid is no longer a candidate.

Kiki said...

Benny said -- Sawyer activated the bomb in a non-suicidal way.

I agree - it was an act to deactivate the bomb and save them

Kiki said...

Gracie said -- I'm asking about otherwise normal, intelligent, loving people who just don't ........... what? Connect?

I think it is about allowing yourself to suspend reality and connect and some how relate it to your own life. I readily admit that I am a crier. Things tug at my heart strings easily -- watching my daughter sing at her Christmas concert bring tears to my eyes. Why? Not the song, just the joy at seeing her and remembering when I was the one singing. I just like to connect the dots. And every once in awhile I like a real good cry to let it all out!

Kiki said...

Gracie said -- So just know that you guys are all very much appreciated, and your time, trouble and efforts DO NOT go unnoticed. Each one of you should pat yourself on the back if you've ever helped someone see the light.

I also love this forum for these very reasons. You all rock!! This is the most fun, respectful and just plain nice places I have found on the web!

Gracie said...

Kiki said: Plus I think at this point Sayid is no longer a candidate.

Kiki at this point in time if Sayid is a candidate for anything, I can only imagine it to be chum. And I'm gonna miss him!

SORRY RAINIER!! (among others). I'll behave.

Kiki said...

Nurse Brian said -- Ladies, the changes that occur in your bodies in those [average] 37 weeks, and to cope with those changes, you ladies are nothing short of amazing.

I have to say a big thanks to the angels who call themselves nurses. Two girls and a total of something like 5 amazing nurses (my first I went almost 24 hours and had one nurse rotate back on! Thank you Angela!) You all may never know how much you mean to us expectant mothers -- especially the first time when you really have no clue what is going on. I remember them all and always will. I believe it truly takes a special person to help someone, a stranger, through such an wonderful, awkward and scary time with kindness, understanding, and all around aplomb! Bravo to all nurses!!

Gracie said...

Nurse Brian said: I KNOW, right?! I mean, when we first have him introduced, his character has some decent substance to him. You know, high in the sarcasm, but still comes off as one hell of a cool guy. And this season, it’s kinda been filtered into cheesy one-liners. Well… at least he wasn’t “Artz’d”

I think the think that really bothers me the most, although it was funny at the time, is that Frank is gonna be remembered as someone from an old Burt Reynolds movie. I want to remember Frank for all the laughs he gave me on Lost, and that one, now that he's gone, is just kinda sad.

Damn, I'm gonna miss this show!!

Anonymous said...

Crazy thought of the day - maybe Dogen (or however you spell it) was a very bad man, and Sayid knew it. And maybe Sayid was faking being detached all along to fool Flocke. And maybe instead of suddenly switching back and saving Desmond and helping the Losties he was just being himself because Flocke wasn't watching.

Of course, someone that good at faking could fake his own death.

Denial. It's not just a river in Egypt.

Kiki said...

Ok. just rewatched part of Dr. linus epi. Here's what I have:

By the way, you all have me taking NOTES on a tv show. . . .Thank you!

Ben, in his discussion of Napolean with his class says that the loss of his power may as well mean that he was dead -- hmm is that how Ben feels now.

Hurley is the only one of the Losties that has actually spoken to Jacob. Hmmm.....

Richard said -- "I can't kill myself. Even if I wanted to."

Which makes me think he can't do it unintentionally either.

He also said == Once Jacob touches someone, it is considered a gift. and that if he lighted the dyno it wouldn't work. Jack lites it then says "Let's talk".

Jack seemed to know they would be ok. He was never told this by Richard. He figured it out from the lighthouse. He figured if Jacob had been watching him that long there was some purpose and that he was special.

Richard asked him "what if your wrong" and Jack sais "i'm not." And then the lead goes out.

Richard askes him what is next. And Jack says they need to go back to "where we started".

So I interpret this as that the candidates, no matter what, can not cause their own deaths. They can kill other candidates but their actions will not kill themselves.

What do the rest of you thinl?

Joan Crawford said...

@Nurse Brian - ALSO, I don’t want to be a boyfriend/husband who knows more about my girlfriend/wife’s vagina than she does.

LOL! I always wonder about male gynecologists...I mean, really? Talk about taking away the mystery and magic!

@Gracie - On one of my DVD's Sawyer, I think, did a "Bonus Feature" called "Best Cock". (Pardon me.) We laughed until we thought we'd fall over.

Haha! What? I had to do a search in the comments section for the word "cock" to find your original comment; "cock" shows up a surprising amount of times here, ladies.

Shame on you all.

:D


@Redeem - maybe Dogen (or however you spell it) was a very bad man, and Sayid knew it.

I agree, Dogen sucked and I am gl...no, I shouldn't say that. I will say I didn't mourn his passing. Him or that sniveling Lennon. Every time they came around I wanted to close-line them - "Get out of the way you irrelevant ninnies!"

Benny said...

@Kiki: I don't think that's right and here's my argument.

Richard, by Jacob's touch, was given the gift of immortality.
The others were not. They were given the gift of candidacy! So the rules affecting each group of individuals are different.

Richard is ultimately protected from death, the candidates are protected from circumstantial death.

Benny said...

@Joan: You only did that search to see the word "cock" on the screen as many times as you could...

don't hide it!

Sagacious Penguin said...

Well, that took a while... I'm finally caught up on all the comments - here are response thoughts!

Regarding Christian and the Music Box - I agree with Lindsay. The practical reason Christian wanted Claire to have the music box would be that it plays Catch A Falling Star, the song he sang to her when she was a baby. (Same song that she wanted the potential adopters to sing to Aaron, that played on the Others' mobile for Aaron, that Kate sang to Aaron, and that crazy Claire sang when leaving the temple). So in theory, it's as simple as a douchey father wanting to give his kid something that represents the one actual memory she has of him.... but this being LOST, it also made for a mirror moment. I could definitely be wrong, but I'm currently doubting Christian had any sort of clairvoyance or omniscience as to the object's usefulness beyond the sentimental.

@ Nikki, Susan - Regarding the emotional response to Sayid's death -- I thought it was done well since it was in the middle of such a hectic moment. Hurley was the audience here wanting to think about Sayid, Jack was the tragic voice of reason yelling that he's gone and they can't stop and mourn until they themselves are safe. Once the group got the the beach, the tears were for all their lost comrades. And I'm sure we'll get even more closure on the character in weeks upcoming...

Regarding Frank - yeah, even though he wasn't a character on the same level as Sun, Jin, and Sayid, I do wish he'd gotten to DO something this season beyond making quips. He joins Ilana as a wasted opportunity... for now...

Regarding Guilt - I love all the characters, but seeing everyone (accurately) throwing the blame around on Jack and Sawyer for character deaths, I must throw out that I'm still pissed at Hurley for his out-of-nowhere decision that "not blowing up the Ajira plane" meant "throw yourselves into Smokey's clutches." Why did he bring everyone to Not-Locke!? Why!? He's got a heavy dose of the guilt too... Whoever said at least they're all on the same page now is exactly right... And Kate's gonna feel it for losing Claire again, too...

Sagacious Penguin said...

Regarding Somkey and Widmore - I have trouble swallowing them working together. If they are, what sense does their confrontation on the beach make? Why would they need to put on a show for Widmore's lackeys? I mean I guess they could have, but that's MAJORLY deceptive of the writers and seems a bit excessive. If you want them working together, just don't write that scene!

Regarding Smokey knowing Candidates are alive - I agree with those who've said it's because he's still stuck on the Island. Desmond wasn't a Candidate, so Smokey has no idea whether he's alive or dead. The only reason Smokey knew his plan failed was because he would KNOW if all the Candidates were dead b/c he would then be "free." I don't see how that's "cheap and a cheat" as someone suggested - being free is his ultimate objective and (apparently) will result in some crazy calamity-filled happenings - why wouldn't he know instantly if he'd succeeded in freeing himself? I didn't even second guess it when watching... just seemed to make sense...

Regarding the Bomb - Smokey had to trick them into killing each other. I'm with Jack: the bomb would have never gone off if Sawyer hadn't triggered it - alas!

@ Teebore - Regarding Anthony Cooper - I'm with you 100%! He was simply denied the ability to reveal his true colors! It now makes perfect sense that Locke would keep a photo of their hunting on his desk since Cooper was incapacitated before he could turn that occasion into a bitter memory by conning Locke. This is an explanation I'm very happy with as it makes a lot more sense than Cooper and Locke STILL being great buddies up to the time of the Oceanic 815 Flight.

@ Casey - Cool submarine info -- thanks for that!

Regarding Charlie's DS Ring -- I REALLY wanted this to end up with Claire at least temporarily, and be what helps bring her back to herself....

And the best moment of the entire season: "JOHN LOCKE TOLD ME I NEEDED TO STAY!" and Jack shoves Smokey into the ocean. Damn I wanted to cheer, but was too riveted to my seat to do so.

crazyinlost said...

@Nurse Brian-"I remember when the surgeon manually broke the mother’s water bag, and a foot emerged from the opening!"
Ew, that sounds like something from a horror movie! haha
But seriously, I had been in labor for 31hrs before they FINALLY decided to do a C-sec, after only dialating to seven and developing an infection in my uterus. ( I should've sued, but I'm not that type of person. My doc didn't do c-sec's, so they had to call someone in to do it. I ended up using her for the next preg. I think he was waiting as long as he could to get the money.) Anyway, the point I was gonna make is, since he had been in that infectious invironment for who knows how long, they had to do lots of checks on him, and it was quite awhile later, when I was in recovery, before I got to see him and hold him. We were in the hosp for 4days while they monitored him and infused me with Vancomycin. He checked out fine, and the Dr. who did the c-sec. said he was a miracle baby, so that's how I have always seen him. He is 18 now, and a pretty darn good kid. The only health issue he has is ADHD, but that runs in the family, so there you go.

crazyinlost said...

@Nurse Brian-and like I said before (about Jack), there is nothing wrong with a man who is willing to show his emotions. For me, that makes him more attractive, probabally because he seems more approchable. My husband is that way, and I wouldn't have him any other way!

Fred said...

@Sagacious Penguin:Regarding Smokey knowing Candidates are alive - I agree with those who've said it's because he's still stuck on the Island.

At AngeloComet's blog he has a nice review of the confusing plans of MiB/Locke. In a nutshell, if MiB's plan all along was to kill the candidates, he had plenty of opportunity for that before the whole sub business, but instead he has precipitated one of the most convoluted plots on the entire show. So much depended on the chance occurences of events. Had Kate not been wounded, or Hugo seen the med-kit, Jack would never have opened his backpack. What then? Timer runs down, no explosion.

And why kill the candidates? Claire was listed as a candidate, and she is still walking about. Seems no problem to MiB. If the remaining candidates had died, would MiB have escaped the island, even with Claire alive? And she's not the only former candidate walking about--Rose (Henderson) was listed on the Lighthouse compass. Even Ben was a potential candidate.

The problem for MiB is not killing all the candidates, but killing Jack. As Sayid said, Jack, you're the one. Jack is the only one who doesn't want to leave the island. MiB knows Jack is the true candidate to replace Jacob. (Of course, why didn't MiB just let Widmore's shelling do Jack in? Why carry him off?). It makes more sense to see MiB's plans as focusing on Jack, and not the other remaining Oceanic 6. So the one true thing the MiB said to Jack was that he could kill Jack's friends. Trouble is he just can't kill Jack. (There was the apparition of the blonde haired kid who told MiB he couldn't kill Sawyer. But the fact there was a warning indicates MiB could break the rules--despite the consequences--and kill Sawyer. MiB would suffer a penalty, but it's likely he could do it). And it is more satisfying from a storyline point of view seeing things come down to Jack. (To kill Jack would be like trying to kill Jacob, requiring a loophole).

As for MiB knowing not everyone died. It would be knowing Jack hadn't died. Where does this come from? We saw Rose assure Jack that Bernard wasn't dead in Season 1, despite Jack's objective belief he must be dead. But Rose's faith seemed tied to her faith in the island's power, afterall it cured her cancer (did she know that at the time, or just suspect it?). Is the MiB's knowledge tied to the island in the same way, or does it feel to him like chains are still on him (it's telling how MiB's comments to Richard seem more than just an observation of Richard's being released from bondage. MiB feels himself to be in bondage, and some of the sounds of the Smoke monster may have something to do with "chains"). Simply expaining MiB's knowledge that some of the candidates survived the sub as simply feeling free doesn't seem to do justice to the mythology behind LOST. I am hoping in the next episode we get a clearer understanding of MiB's bondage on the island, and why he wants escape and to what place.

crazyinlost said...

@Marebabe-Yay! I know this is late but congrats on your new job! I can hear the sighs of releaf all the way over here!

word verif-punde-when someone tells you a bad joke.

crazyinlost said...

oh and happy birthday (yesterday). Like I said, I'm late!

crazyinlost said...

@Rad-" (oh yea, WE NEED MONTAGE!)"
I hear ya on that one! Bring on the montage! Best part of the eps!

crazyinlost said...

oh yeah, my word verif-nomembeh-when you're having a brain fart

and another one-trephora-when you're euphoric about trepedation

crazyinlost said...

@Rad-"Sayid could have just thrown the damn thing the same distance that he covered by running."
It's the same sinario as with Charlie-why couldn't he have run out of the room and shut the door real quick? They needed(?) to kill them off, so it's not that believable.

JS said...

@SP - on Chistian and the music box. I understand the sentimentality of it, and it makes complete sense in the original timeline since Christian did have interaction with Claire. Though she didn't recognize him when she met him, she knew her father used to sing that song to her. In the sideways timeline, Claire has never met anyone presenting himself as her father. So it would stand to reason that no one ever sang that song to her, and the sentimentality only goes one way - he wishes he had sang it to her. That is the issue I have with the box being presented this way. It is kind of like Jack scar except there is no one there to tell her that he sang it to her.

Make sense?

JS said...

@Fred - I like your idea that the MiB can feel Jack is still alive, and that he needs the candidates to kill Jack, intentionally or otherwise. Claire, we are led to assume, is no longer a candidate, so it doesn't matter if she lives or dies, or kills Jack. Following your line of thinking, apparently a (former) candidate needs to kill Jack. And he is still a candidate because he wants to stay on the island? Well, they all wanted to and left (with the exception of Sawyer) so I am not still not sure what makes someone stop being a candidate. But, somehow, all but Jack may be crossed off MiB's list now, if they are no longer candidates. Yet, they are still on Widmore's list. Too bad they do not have a database with a single source of candidate lists, everyone's lists are out of synch!

JS said...

@Joan Crawford - sorry I brought up the gun cocking issue, I just thought it was kind of ridiculous at that particular moment, and that they did it all at once. Perhaps they were running around half-cocked.

Benny said...

@crazyinlost: I think Charlie's death was ultimately his decision based on Desmond's vision.
The vision had Charlie dying and Claire and Aaron getting off the island, I think Charlie did not want to mess with that vision - though it didn't quite come to pass.


@Fred: I must say this is a well thought out line of ideas and theories, I might want to check it out on my own.

That being said, I don't agree with a single thing in there.
Two of the main points are:

1. he had plenty of opportunity for that before the whole sub business,
since according to what we know so far, he cannot kill them on his own, he never had such a chance to have them kill themselves;

2. Claire was listed as a candidate, and she is still walking about. [...] And she's not the only former candidate [...],
my point here is already written: FORMER candidates. They no longer are candidates. They are no longer relevant. Locke/MiB does not know who the ultimate candidate is, he only has a list. He has insisted all season long he needs to get them ALL together. He wants to kill them all at the same time, and likely needs the candidates to ultimately kill themselves.

Benny said...

@crazyinlost: ...so ultimately, Charlie could have survived (and I have more issues with that death scene) but from a Character perspective, Charlie 'wanted' to die as a purpose.

For Sayid, I agree that he didn't need to die. Though maybe we could think he ran more than we saw, those 30 seconds were just cut from the episode...

Rebecca T. said...

Re: A candidate giving up - Sawyer's been saying that all season, that he's through, that he doesn't want to be there, that he's not going to play the game anymore - but everyone treats him still as one of the candidates and MiB tried to blow him up too. I don't think it's as easy as just saying "no"


VW: Rebio - a really obnoxious nickname for Rebecca?

Fred said...

@JS:Too bad they do not have a database with a single source of candidate lists, everyone's lists are out of synch!

You are so right. As the audience, we don't even really know who is and isn't a candidate, not exactly. Which means there could always be a dark horse candidate; i.e. Kate. Pickett at one time said Shepherd wasn't on Jacob's list. Yet we see Jack's name on the compass rose. Ilana and Bram weren't sure whether Frank Lapidus was a candidate or not, so they erred on the side of caution. As well, some of the past names have been attributed to the U.S. Army soldiers on the island, and they were killed by Richard's Others, so what gives on not killing candidates outright? I agree, JS, the whole matter of lists is really out of synch. Likely, more of Jacob's frustrating management style.

@Benny:since according to what we know so far, he cannot kill them on his own, he never had such a chance to have them kill themselves

Let's consider Sawyer dangling from the broken ladder on the cliff face. MiB could just have let him drop off, killing him. Ben was a former candidate (crossed off), but MiB did put the gun there in the jungle to save Ben. Did MiB expect what was going to happen, happen. If he didn't, we have to question his planning ability. It would have been easier to just let Ilana kill Ben. Why also revive Sayid? Or stop Claire from killing Kate? All perfect opportunities to get rid of candidates. I know, I know, there's MiB's cunning plan to manage to crowd the whole group together and blow them up. Personally, that sounds more like something out of Black Adder, all those cunning plans. And if he wanted them all dead, why not hide the wires on the plane, get them on board and Frank starts the engine. Poof, all dead. We've seen that Widmore's mortar shells did nothing to MiB. I can imagine nothing would happen with the plane exploding. Really, a number of oppertunities missed by MiB.

@Benny:my point here is already written: FORMER candidates.

My point here is how did Claire get to be a former candidate, now that she is off-again, on-again with MiB? Likely Rose (nee Henderson) is also a former candidate. So how do people get to be former candidates? Why not convince everyone to be former candidates. I'm sure Sawyer would be more than happy.

But I think MiB has figured it out that the one he is after is Jack. And we get some inkling that it really is hard to kill Jack when he sat with Richard in the Black Rock and watched the dynamite fuse burn down. The island won't let Jack die. There needs to be a loophole, just as with Jacob. Is this why Jack survived the initial crash, becuase he was always the one? Seems likely, and from the very beginning Jack was threatened with death and always got away. Consider the cliff he fell over, the encounter with Smokie when Seth norris was killed by the monster, and the cave in with Charlie. So Jack needs to be killed by one of his own, just as Jacob was killed by Ben. Actually the best "candidate" to kill Jack is Sawyer.So maybe MiB saved Sawyer for one single purpose, the turn on Jack. Perhaps we'll get a Juliet "ghost" on the island, just as Isabella appeared to Richard in the Black Rock.

Fred said...

@Sagacious Penguin:Regarding Frank - yeah, even though he wasn't a character on the same level as Sun, Jin, and Sayid, I do wish he'd gotten to DO something this season beyond making quips. He joins Ilana as a wasted opportunity... for now...

Don't count Frank out, just like Jin surviving the huge explosion of C4 on the Kahana. Trust the writers to have something in story for that Burt Reynolds character. Afterall, there was that movie Smokie and the Bandit. And I'm sure Frank is the bandit.

Benny said...

Just a note there was A LOT of information in the latest podcast.

Info some of you might want to know, and some of you might not like.

It's a good one, but be warned.

Fred said...

@CrazyinLost:The vision had Charlie dying and Claire and Aaron getting off the island

What if Desmond's vision is correct, Claire does leave the island, but with MiB. Still don't know his name, but there's suspicion it's Aaron. (Of course, there was and still is suspicion, Jacob is Aaron in some version). Maybe Frank will fly them out.

Gracie said...

BWOMEN EVERYWHERE: I'm just jumping in here for a quickie.

Whether American or not, whether this holiday is native to your background or not, if you are a Mother, I would like to send out my wishes that you have the happiest of Mother's Days tomorrow. I hope you get to spend that day with your family, and I hope that they are good to you. And I most certainly hope that YOU do not have to cook!

Convergence said...

Maybe after all is said and done, Lost merely comes down to...

... a way for some Red Hot Chili Pepper fan-writers to pay homage to their favorite group.

Consider:

"Walkabout

I think I'll go on a walkabout
And find out what it's all about - and that ain't hard
Just me and my own two feet
In the heat I've got myself to meet
A detective of perspective I
I need to try and get a bigger eye - open wide
bloodwood flowers in my gaze
walkabout in a sunny daze - do me now
On a walkabout
You could do it in the city
You could do it in a zone
You could do it in a desert
You could do the unknown
On a walkbout
High desert skies are what I spy
So fly - you've got to wonder why
The stingrays must be fat this year
Moving slow in my lowest gear
The digirido original man with a dream
I believe the Aborigine
On a walkabout
You could do it with a shuffle
You could do it with a stroll
You could do it with a stride
You could do the unknown
ON A WALKABOUT
A walk could cure most all my blues
bare feet or in my two shoes - 1, 2,
I think I'll go on a walkabout
Find out what it's all about - can't hurt to try
Use your legs to rock it wide
Take a ride to the other side."


Or consider:

"Parallel Universe

Deep inside of a parallel universe
Its getting harder and harder
To tell what came first

Under water where thoughts can breathe Easily

Far away you were made in a sea
Just like me

Chorus
Christ Im a sidewinder Im a
California King
I swear its everywhere
Its everything

Staring straight up into the sky
Oh my my a solar system that fits
In your eye Microcosm

You could die but your never dead spider web
Take a look at the stars in
Your head fields of space kid

Chorus x2

Psychic changes are born in your heart
Entertain
A nervous breakthrough that makes us the
same
Bless your heart girl

Kill the pressure its raining on
Salty Cheeks
When you hear the beloved song
I am with you."

Just sayin' :-)

wv: salliff: Ummm ... I got nuthin'

Gracie said...

To all of those who have been talking about the sex, nationalities and color make-up of the show, I have a comment.

I HAD an article on here that I had saved from my local paper about just this issue. I can't find it, which isn't really surprising because since my computer crashed, I can't find a lot of stuff.

Anyway, I think it was picked up by my local paper after running in the AP, because some American actually went to Sydney, bought a random ticket for "any day" to Los Angeles, and got on the flight. I'm pretty sure this person was a reporter.

While there, he did a private survey of who else was on board. He said the sexual make-up was about 50/50 or leaning slighty to the male side. There were, I believe, NINE African American, or black, people on board. An Indian woman. Two with British accents. And three people whom he believed to be Muslim based on what they were reading. (He also picked up on the loading of two cats from an overheard conversation that were in holding somewhere. I don't fly. I wouldn't know.) Of the remaining "white" people it would be impossible to tell who was American or Australian or British or what. Most of the crowd were the blue jean/T-shirt crowd, with the rest in business attire.

And this would be representative of a random flight out of Sydney headed to L.A.

If you're any good at searching, I know this original came from the Associated Press. You should still be able to find it. I've been involved in Lost now for about nine or ten months, so I know it was printed since then.

Good Luck!

Gracie said...

I want to stick my neck out here and see how many of you will be overjoyed to cut it off.

Knowing we only have five and a half hours left, and looking back at Season Six so far, I think they should have dropped MUCH of the Temple story and allowed more time for wrapping up. The Temple DOES have to be there, but maybe not in so many episodes.


I would have preferred resolving issues and differences. Learning more of the history from Richard and Ben. Heading toward the end with some finality already in place. (Just because it appears final, doesn't mean it is though.)

Now, it seems they have a whole lot to do and little time to do it. It feels crammed together and disjointed, unconnected. Unresolved. And I don't see any way to fix that in the last five and a half hours.

(Where is Penny?)

There's my two cents.

Kiki said...

Benny said...
@Kiki: I don't think that's right and here's my argument.

Richard, by Jacob's touch, was given the gift of immortality.


I think there is a diffence between the immortality that Richard has and the "protections" that are afforded a candidate. Richard cannot die, the candidate can not kill himself.

Gracie said...

Oh, Fred! Your comment at May 6, 2010 12:07 PM just about tore my very heart out.

True, Ben (or Roger Linus) was no longer a candidate in Jacob's mind. And yes, I think once crossed off, they become fair game for MIB. There are other remainders, though, besides Kate and Ben. Ben and Kate are just the next logical to be killed off, I think. (I'm not sure, but doesn't Miles fit in here too?) That doesn't mean it's going to happen. And what is to happen to Richard? As of now he's immortal.

I think Desmond is somehow uh.. above (?) all this. ('Above' is the best I can do right now.) He's special. He's like a white knight. But I fear in order to do what he was meant to do, he's got to have access to Penny. Maybe.

Somebody on the blog not too far back wondered what Widmore was going to do without a sub. I think he'd have planned a back-up, like a helicopter coming in, say, a week or two after his arrival. I'm hoping for something along this line, and Penny is on it. (Widmore doesn't know this.) If Widmore planned to stay for any length of time, he's got to have access to food somehow.

And, I watch Survivor. Lost is nothing like Survivor and vice versa. Survivor is a one-of-a-kind reality show about REAL people put into difficult situations and may the best man/woman win. Sure I have a favorite. Lost is a drama written for TV by some of the best writers I've ever witnessed, and it is, in fact, the best television show I have ever seen. And I've said that I don't expect the likes of Lost to come around again anytime soon.

MY Lost Candidate was chosen several weeks ago based on something I saw AGAIN that hadn't smacked me in the head the first time around which took me down to two people for Candidacy. From there I picked up on something one of them said, and I'm hanging my hat on that one person as THE Candidate!(Therefore, I've eliminated the other one I had, although that person is still alive too. Neither is Jack.) AGAIN, I've always said that I hope I'm wrong, but if I am right, Rainier will be my witness that I told her in an e-mail a long time ago who I thought the Candidate was. What I was saying in the piece you quoted, that although there were deaths, my Candidate was not among them. That's what I meant. Jack is just so obvious.

This show will be completely ruined for me if Hurley dies. He is the one that must LIVE and GO HOME. (Actually there's two: Hurley and Desmond.) I have very high hopes that somehow there will be a LIBBY waiting for him there.

There was also the question that I had asked for so long: "Did Darlton really say that many fans were going to be unhappy at the ending?" I'm sorry, I think it was Benny who finally answered that, but it could have been you or someone else. Based on just that comment, until it's over, I'm also going to think it's possible that EVERYONE will die except the Candidate and MIB. That's how it will end. One of my possibilities, among many. And again, I hope I'm wrong.

Gracie said...

Zari said...
THANKS, Teebore!

My 2nd Word Verf -- HEARTWED: My sweet David and me, 40 years May 30th


Hey Congratulations!
Spouse and I will have 30 on May 28th. Seems like we just met a couple weeks ago most of the time. Odd how time goes by isn't it?

Benny said...

@Gracie: While I understand what you're saying about having so much stuff to address, I get the feeling, from listening to the writers and listening to the fans, that there is a big disjoint between two groups as to what should be addressed/answered.

That is also part of why some fans may be unhappy with the finale, a lot of unanswered questions, and an ending that is bittersweet, melancholic, unwanted. But it is the end the writers wrote.


One example that comes to mind is Annie. Most fans wanted to know and kept speculating as to what happened to Annie. Some were even angered when the writers came out and said Annie was not important. She was written to introduce an intrigue to Ben's personality and that's it. I really feel that this situation will also take place regarding bigger mysteries.

My two cents

Zari said...

THANKS for the kind words, Grace --

and congratulations to you two, too!

Yes, how time passes is odd. For us, sometimes it seems that we just met "a little bit ago", and other times it seems like we've been together "forever", but in the best possible way. ;*)

(...and I can't believe I said "and me" -- I know better!)

Gracie said...

@redeem147: I like that idea of Sayid being the anti-Jack Bauer. I started watching 24 this year for Anil Kapoor. Jack is not a nice man.

We've rented and seen all the seasons now of "24". I think Jack is not a nice man right now because he was leaving CTU, planning to have a life FINALLY with his daughter, got brought back in on behalf of his country, found love again, watched her die, was told to lie by a president he believed in, was going to be locked down on her orders, escaped, and still isn't able to call it a day! (That's a long 24 hours if you ask me!)

For the most part, I wish we had more Americans like him. He gets the answers. I don't like the idea of torture any more than anybody else does, but I've thought about it this way: If I could go back to 9/10/01, and have access to the information about 9/11 by virtue of torturing it out of someone, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute, especially if my actions saved the lives of everyone who died that awful day. Just IMHO.

Kiki said...

Fred said...
@JS:Too bad they do not have a database with a single source of candidate lists, everyone's lists are out of synch!

You are so right. As the audience, we don't even really know who is and isn't a candidate, not exactly


I think this disparity is intentional. In playing a game, you know what your strategy is and part of being successful is figuring out the othersides strategy. Having one master list would be like handing your opponent your play book. Would make it easy for the viewers but then we wouldn't need to come here and speculate. Then what fun would this be?!

Gracie said...

Teebore said: and since he's locked into Locke,

Would someone please be kind enough to remind what exactly it was that Ilana said that convinced us MIB will never be anyone from here on out but Locke, MIB, or Smokey? I've completely forgotten, and no matter where I go to look it up, I can't locate it.

Gracie said...

Sorry if you get this twice. Some idiot posted it on the wrong page!

Donnie said: I think it ends with Jack ending the island reality and by end I mean the whole world. Jacob said it only ends once.

This goes back to one of my worst theories on how the show might end. Picture everyone at home, sitting around the TV, hanging on the edge of their chairs, and we're down to the last few seconds of the show. We get a conclusion like this, everyone is holding their breath, and the ABC channel just fades to black. As in the world just ended.

Regardless of where you live, you will here me scream if this comes to pass.

WV: mentests. These are the tests the male sex should be required to take in order to leave behind 'boyhood' and move on into 'manhood'. Then so many women wouldn't be able to claim they married someone with the mentality of "a little boy".

Rainier said...

@Gracie: Kiki at this point in time if Sayid is a candidate for anything, I can only imagine it to be chum. And I'm gonna miss him!

SORRY RAINIER!! (among others). I'll behave.


I actually laughed out loud at this one; and that is a rarity for me when I'm reading. I may be in mourning, but I haven't lost my sick sense of humor...:)

Rainier said...

@Kiki, Nurse Brian: I believe it truly takes a special person to help someone, a stranger, through such an wonderful, awkward and scary time with kindness, understanding, and all around aplomb! Bravo to all nurses!!

I heartily second this, and not just in regards to having babies (I haven't.) As someone who despises doctors, I also LOVE nurses. Give me a nurse practitioner instead of a doctor any day! They know about as much, make a hell of a lot less (sadly), and are not constantly tripping over their gigantic egos. IMO, nurses are right up there with firefighters and teachers for being under-appreciated and underpaid for the job they do.

Nurse Brian, I think it is way cool that you are studying to be a nurse! It is a shame that more men don't enter that profession.

VW: avilml - a very small quantity of an extremely unpleasant liquid.

Rainier said...

@reedeem147: Denial. It's not just a river in Egypt.

I have been thinking that exact same thing as I have read all the explanations here about why _______ is not dead. (You fill in the blank.) Much as I'd love to think that our dearly departed characters are going to live on because they have not been killed (yet!) in the FS, I really don't think so. They're dead, Jim.

VW: comes - what s/he does in the best moment of great sex or a truly decadent dessert. Or both. Combined.

Kiki said...

Gracie said --There was also the question that I had asked for so long: "Did Darlton really say that many fans were going to be unhappy at the ending?"

I think that no matter what, some people are going to be disappointed. Part of me will be disappointed if it isn't Jack. A part of me will be if it is! I'd love to see it be Hurley. And I wouldn't be surprised is Locke is resurrected. But in the end you can't please all the peole all the time. I'm just going to go with the flow and enjoy the ending that we get. Then create others in my own mind -- and maybe here too!

Rainier said...

@Gracie: For the most part, I wish we had more Americans like him. He gets the answers. I don't like the idea of torture any more than anybody else does, but I've thought about it this way: If I could go back to 9/10/01, and have access to the information about 9/11 by virtue of torturing it out of someone, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute, especially if my actions saved the lives of everyone who died that awful day. Just IMHO.

Jack Bauer is not, in fact, a nice man. This is best exemplified by the e-card that was making the rounds last Christmas that was a video of Jack Bauer torturing Santa Claus. If you have not seen it, you should. And think about it. hard.

9/11 was a tragedy. It actually might have been avoided based on intelligence that we already had.
But as far as torture is concerned, the ends do not, cannot, justify the means.

VW: exanceph - someone who used to be brainless, but is no longer.

Rebecca T. said...

This is completely off Lost topic, BUT

I can't tell very many people,

AND

I feel like I know you guys so well (even more so after how un-awkward actually meeting some of you in person was)

SO

I just got really great news today - I mentioned a while ago that I was accepted into grad school. Today I found out that I have been granted the Teaching Assistantship that I had applied for!

I am so excited and I had to share with somebody before I exploded. I'm waiting a few weeks before I tell my boss that I'm going to be stepping down and since a lot of people I work with are on Facebook with me and read my blog, this is one of the only places I can share!

Okay, I now return you to your previously scheduled Lost discussion :)

Benny said...

@Sonshine: SWEET CONGRATS...

I LOVED TAing, it was awesome. You're in control and every student is at your command.
Some like you and it's cool, some hate you and you make their life miserable...

TAing is the second reason I'm eventually going back to grad school!


I'm sure you'll enjoy it...

(I may have exaggerated some of my comments - but you'll love it!)

Gracie said...

@Rainier said...
@Gracie: Kiki at this point in time if Sayid is a candidate for anything, I can only imagine it to be chum. And I'm gonna miss him!

SORRY RAINIER!! (among others). I'll behave.

I actually laughed out loud at this one; and that is a rarity for me when I'm reading. I may be in mourning, but I haven't lost my sick sense of humor...:)


All day I've been dreading you finding this because I thought you might verbally take my head off, and I was actually a little sorry after I posted it (if my dreams last night are any indication).

But, well, what else could he presently be a Candidate for? If he got blown to bits, he wouldn't be a nominee anymore for "Best Looking Dark Skinned Male On A Deserted Island In A Tank Top" now would he? Or "TV Actor I Most Want To Spend The Day Alone Naked With".

You know, he wasn't one of the main characters on the show; that I think belongs to Jack and Locke. But the remainder of the show, if in fact it is without our Sayid, is just gonna be empty in a way. His character just added so much, and he could do it seriously or he could throw in a punch line and get away with both.

It is Charlie Part Two.

Gracie said...

CLARIFICATION:

Gracie said: For the most part, I wish we had more Americans like him. He gets the answers. I don't like the idea of torture any more than anybody else does, but I've thought about it this way: If I could go back to 9/10/01, and have access to the information about 9/11 by virtue of torturing it out of someone, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute, especially if my actions saved the lives of everyone who died that awful day. Just IMHO.

I would just like to clarify that I'm NOT real big on the idea of torture as a daily part of life. I truly believe if we put this option in the hands of the few, it WILL be, without a doubt, abused by the many. And in ways most of us cannot imagine or want to.

What I meant above was to be on behalf of the people whose lives were lost (or forever damaged) on 9/11/01 ONLY. I can think of no other time in US history when I would have condoned it, except possibly the day before Pearl Harbor. Please pardon me if I wasn't really clear on that.

On the other hand, I DO think Jack Bauer WOULD be a nice guy if he were real. In the situation he's currently in, the president of HIS great country has put his testicles in a vice grip, and it's making him a little grumpy lately. From his point of view, I can see why he's been a little testy.

Rainier said...

@Sonshine - HUGE congratulations!!! Dude, that is AWESOME!!!! (Yes, I know that strictly speaking, you are not a 'dude', but then, neither am I, and 'Dude' was my nickname for years. Still is, in some circles.)

Where are you off to, and what are you studying?

VW: kneevel - a crazy dude who used to jump motorcycles over canyons and things

Rebecca T. said...

@Benny and Rainier: thanks!

I'm going to Seton Hall in South Orange, New Jersey - studying English in the hopes of becoming a college professor someday :)

Rainier said...

@Gracie: You know, he wasn't one of the main characters on the show; that I think belongs to Jack and Locke. But the remainder of the show, if in fact it is without our Sayid, is just gonna be empty in a way. His character just added so much, and he could do it seriously or he could throw in a punch line and get away with both.

It is Charlie Part Two.


I do not think it is true that he was not a major character; Lost is a true ensemble show, and every one of the regulars is a major character. Each and every one of them brings something vital to the cast, and the show is not about any one of them. Yes, Jack & Locke sometimes seem more central, but not always.

It is Charlie Part 2, only perhaps more so, because the character development with Sayid has been a lot more interesting. With Charlie, until the latter part of Season 3, the character was really a bit of a one-trick pony. Which was a shame, because they could have done a lot more with him. Sayid has developed on several different levels, and his character is perhaps the most interesting of the bunch.

Also, I think he was hands down the finest piece of male eye candy on the show. I wish he'd have spent more time with his shirt off. Or maybe sunbathing in a Speedo...

Rainier said...

Sonshine - That is cool indeed. I only have a couple of bachelor's degrees (so far), but had the opportunity for a number of year to teach studio art as an adjunct, and I loved it. My partner is also a college professor. It is a great job... My goal is to go to grad school so I can teach also.

VW: holovudi - a virtual-reality religion involving the loa and sympathetic magic.

Gracie said...

JS: Regarding your comment on Locke's facial scar: Can you ballpark an area of this episode (or any episode this Season) where you think it's most noticeable? I'd like to take a closer look at your observation but it just looks faded to me. Where do you most notice that?

Secondly, this comment: "MiB has his own criteria for crossing names out, and somehow, Kate did something that made him think she was no longer a candidate. I think this will be his biggest mistake."

I'd like to second (or third) that notion. I also think his "biggest mistake" will either BE or LEAD TO his undoing. THE fatal mistake!

On a more painful subject: I have had the very unfortunate experience of knowing someone who was a house (among other things) painter, and one beautiful summer day, he fell off the roof. He was eventually diagnosed as "catatonic". He was able to sit up (more like spring up) from flat on his back, and yes, he would stare for hours without blinking. (Cooper, if I recall, had an vague expression on his face like "WTF?" My buddy's face was clear - no expression at all. And he mouth was almost always closed.) Once seated, he would also lie back down. He didn't fall back the way you would expect. He would just sort of gently, slowly, lower back down. Oddly, I never saw him roll over onto his sides. He has since passed on to somewhere where I hope there is much to be painted in a wide variety of colors as that is what he most loved to do.

WV: suati. One Christmas I gave Suati?
Second WV: micre. Mispelling of misery? mic r e?

Rainier said...

I still want to know when Smokey had time to assemble that bomb! It just does not track for me...and where did the battery come from? Ideas, anyone?

VW: aboulst - What destroyed the sub, according to Desmond

Nurse Brian said...

@Joan Crawford: RE: Male Gynecologists Talk about taking away the mystery and magic! – Tee-hee, MAGICAL UTERUS! *sparkle*

@crazyinlost: RE: Labor – I’m so sorry to hear that you had that kind of experience with your labor! I can’t really judge the doctor because I’m not familiar with the situation (ex. Was your water broken, the rate of your dilation, was the baby’s heart rate being monitored, etc.). I do know that if there are any concerns regarding the baby, one of the things we can do is manually check the baby via the vagina. Like I said before, pregnancies aren’t all the same! Some ladies may have to labor for days on end, and some labor in half an hour. Some may give birth prematurely, and some may give birth to future superheroes (right Nikki?! lol). The checking of the baby multiple times via the birth canal does increase risk for infection; as does having a baby in the womb for a prolonged period of time after the water breaks. Current methodology (as I was taught by my wonderful clinical professor, a nurse midwife) was to minimize the amount of checks as much as possible.

And as much as I like to chat about nursing, allow me to tie it back to LOST!

@Rainier: RE: Doctors’ Egos. It’s fairly true. I mean, so far in my time in the hospitals that I’ve been in, I’ve met my share of egotistical doctors and surgeons. These guys are the ones who like to act all high and mighty, rarely visit their patients, and worst of all (but rarely happens) treat the nursing staff like dirt. Even with all that, I have met a decent handful of doctors who have treated me with kindness and teachable moments. Anyway, watching LOST and being in the nursing program has really been interesting, namely, the character development of one Dr. Jack Shephard. During the rewatch, and my passing moments of seeing LOST reruns on TV, Jack’s character is a massive ego.

You can say my perspective of him is very much influenced by my training to be a nurse, or simply being a part of the healthcare system. What am I seeing? I’m seeing a man who likes to take charge, who likes to be in control, because he’s always had that when he’s performing surgery. Like rallying the castaways at the start of the series. And when he doesn’t have control? He puts himself in control (i.e. Ben’s surgery on Hydra Island). When he has appendicitis? He doesn’t trust anyone else to do the surgery and even wants to watch the surgery when the option of him doing the surgery himself is taken out of his hands. Even in the Sideways world, Jack’s character persists in trying to heal Locke. “I get to make a crippled man walk again? Sign me up!” For me, his reasons for discovering why Locke was in the wheelchair wasn’t for the sake of knowing, but trying to get his foot in the door to fix Locke and up his status as a surgeon.

And Post-Jughead? Jack has taken a backseat and become a follower for the most part. There’s more on this in my head, but ugh, I’m kinda out of it right now.

Haha, okay, there’s my little rant on Doc Shephard and some Doctors in the hospital!

Gracie said...

@Benny said: That would have been Locke's plan that, with all the candidates together, one's actions (Sawyer's) results in all's death... Sawyer activated the bomb in a non-suicidal way. The unforeseen sacrifice has thrown a wrench in Locke's plan.

Wild thought here. Do you think Locke's knowledge (taken by MIB) about Sawyer's anger in general, his history regarding his parents, his distancing himself from the others when the plane first crashed, his disdain that the others looked down on him, his murder of his own father, and then Juliet's death (I probably missed a few things), are the reason Flocke went into Sawyer's old Otherton house when Sawyer was drinking and asked him to go with him?

In other words, do you think FLocke thought that Sawyer's natural anger would work in his (FLocke's) favor, and selected him purposefully for this reason? As if FLocke knew all along that eventually Sawyer would blow or his anger would get the best of him and he'd do something without thinking? Something he'd later regret?

I think there's something in that line of thought! WOW!

VW: unsubwor. The beginning of a never-to-be-finished scream that this sub is unsubworthy?

Gracie said...

Jennifer said: I'm glad Sayid redeemed himself. It made me feel better about where he has gone this season.

Uh, just for gits and shiggles, would anyone like to try and explain where Sayid went this season? What happened to him that Dogen and Lennon were all freaked out about and tried to get Jack to poison him over? AND to add insult to injury, they were trying to get Jack to poison somebody who was on a list of names that Jacob sent that they were supposed to protect! What was the purpose to that?

I'm asking because it was supposed to have also happened to Claire, who for all intents and purposes appears to be returning to her old self (or trying to). And with the backstory we had from Rousseau about her team, and others, I was under the impression from the writers that once taken, you weren't coming back. EVER! Evil incarnate, remember? Aren't the writers contradicting themselves?

And what was all that, "Don't let him talk to you before you kill him. Don't let him speak"? I originally thought that if MIB spoke to you first, that's what made you "taken" or "claimed", but it didn't happen to Sawyer. Just Claire and Sayid among our group.

Anybody want to tackle this one?

WV: decintin.
1. I have a coupon for decintin?
2. My living room has a bad aroma, and I am decintin it?
3. Jamaican. Before you can get de candy bar out of de machine, you have to put decintin?

WV2: swardi. Cool looking "word". I don't have a good one for this at all, but I like the way it looks! To me this needs a definition that would go with swashbuckling. Anybody else?

Gracie said...

@Nurse Brian: I am so ridiculously, insanely, completely jealous of YOU!

Child (my one and only) was an emergency C-Section. I have horrifying memories of my nurse coming into my room, literally throwing a gown and stuff at Spouse, and saying, "If you're going, get it on NOW!!", and rolling me within seconds into a delivery room. There they put up a drape across my upper middle between my large belly and my boobs, so I couldn't see. Spouse did, but I didn't even get the mirror effect. (Sob!) After the delivery, the nurse ran by me, tilted Child's head down for less than a second (it seemed) for me to "see", said, "You have a beautiful daughter", and ran my Child into NICU. I didn't see her again for almost six hours. She couldn't be brought to me, and I wasn't allowed to go see her. Worst six hours of my entire life!

And you got to see this:
I remember when the surgeon manually broke the mother’s water bag, and a foot emerged from the opening!

Yep, I'm jealous. Not enough to do it all again, but jealous nonetheless. If at all possible, while birthing babies, try not to do what was done above. We want them healthy (obviously), but can we see them too?

WV: erser. An eraser typo?

Gracie said...

@EVERYONE: I just caught up with this again. Has everybody seen this?
Kiki said:
Gracie said -- On one of my DVD's Sawyer, I think, did a "Bonus Feature" called "Best Cock". (Pardon me.)

No, no, that is quite alright! ;)


And I mean has everyone seen this Bonus Feature, not this comment? It is definitely one of the funniest things I have seen on Lost, and we've watched it several times for the giggles. If you missed this on the Bonuses, go back and pick it up. Well worth the time. :)~~~~~

crazyinlost said...

@Benny-"@crazyinlost: I think Charlie's death was ultimately his decision based on Desmond's vision."
and..."@crazyinlost: ...so ultimately, Charlie could have survived (and I have more issues with that death scene) but from a Character perspective, Charlie 'wanted' to die as a purpose."

I'm sorry, but I dont remember writing this, are you sure it was me? Don't want to take credit for someone else's words.

Gracie said...

Joan said: @Gracie - On one of my DVD's Sawyer, I think, did a "Bonus Feature" called "Best Cock". (Pardon me.) We laughed until we thought we'd fall over.

Haha! What? I had to do a search in the comments section for the word "cock" to find your original comment; "cock" shows up a surprising amount of times here, ladies.

Shame on you all.


Joan, does that mean you missed this? OMG! IF you did miss this on the DVD Bonus Features, you've got to go back and see it. It's hilarious, especially coming out of Sawyer's mouth!! I'm not sure which Season is was in, but I could look for it when the family gets up or sometime later today or tomorrow if you haven't seen it. Let me know, okay?

WV: ruding. What other drivers are doing when they cut you off in traffic? Or what politicians do when they call your home the night before an election ESPECIALLY WHEN LOST IS ON!!

Second WV: lediful. When I have a full tank of gas, my car is lediful.

Gracie said...

Oh, and Kiki said...
Gracie said -- On one of my DVD's Sawyer, I think, did a "Bonus Feature" called "Best Cock". (Pardon me.)

No, no, that is quite alright! ;)


Overcome to know I didn't offend your sensibilities there, Kiki. I wonder how many other women on here weren't offended in the least and smiled at the idea? Putting those two in the same sentence seemed like a dangerous move at the time. :)~~~~~

WV: dismall. Not dat mall. Dismall!

crazyinlost said...

@Nurse Brian-"(ex. Was your water broken, the rate of your dilation, was the baby’s heart rate being monitored, etc.)"
Okay, the parts I left out before, I went to the hospital right after my water broke, so it was 31hrs after that that I had him. (I was 11 days overdue by this time too). They started dosing me with pitocin, and I was wanting to push at 3cm's. They were checking my cervix for dialation so much during this time, that I believe this is how I got the infection. So I go in at 4pm ish, and by the next day around 4pm after wanting to push for so long, the FINALLY gave me an epidermal. A few hours later I went lethargic, and doing a CBC discovered I had a high white count, and I only had made it to 7cm. so they decided to do the c-sec. I should say here that they kept trying to zero out the epi monitor, and it wouldn't baseline out, but they just kinda ignored it. SO, when they went to turn off the epi to take me to surgery (why they had to do that I don't under stand...those few minutes being rolled down the hallway were excruciating!)and the pitosin, they noticed that they had been overdosing me with the
pitosin! (Another lawsuit?) You know, I honestly dont remember the state of the baby at that point, but, after what I told you yesterday, I'm sure they were concered for it. His head ended up being up, which is why he seemed to get stuck. I'm glad to hear they have improved methods in the past 18yrs!

Gracie said...

@ redeem147 said...
Denial. It's not just a river in Egypt.


If it's any consolation, there are several things about the entire "Temple" part of the Season that just don't make sense to Spouse and me. Maybe while you're in Egypt you're also onto something really good.

But, look at it this way, at 11:00PM on May 23rd, which is two weeks from today Folks, you are gonna know what happened to whom. I'm pretty sure they will not leave us hanging about specific outcomes of these people we have loved. So if he isn't dead now, OR if he's also gonna die in the SR, you'll know in two weeks what DID happen. And maybe your crazy thought of the day won't be so crazy after all.

WV: reeder.
1. A person who plays a clarinet is a reeder? All woodwind musicians are reeders?
2. I have a lot of reeders growing in my lawn?
3. Before you can become a riter, you have to be a reeder.

«Oldest ‹Older   201 – 400 of 477   Newer› Newest»