Tuesday, May 04, 2010

6.14 The Candidate

“You saved John’s life. Why can’t that be enough?”
“Because it’s not.”


“Because it’s going to be you, Jack.”

“I won’t leave you. I will never leave you again.”

OK, a few weeks ago I wrote a blubbery and passionate response to “Ab Aeterno,” because it was one of the most epic hours of television I’d ever seen. A friend of mine emailed me right before tonight’s episode and said, “Make sure you have Kleenex handy” (he works at the TV station and gets to see the ep a few hours early) and I thought, “Uh oh...” But then it opened with John Locke in a hospital bed and Jack standing over him grinning and I thought, Oh! Maybe he meant tears of joy!!

NO. He most certainly did NOT mean tears of joy. The writers took out not one, not two, but FOUR major characters in one fell swoop. Sayid, like Titus in Edward Gorey’s “Gashlycrumb Tinies” poem, flew into bits. (WAAAAAH!!) And like a certain major character in the series finale of Buffy who’s sort of cut in half with a sword in the midst of battle and it happens so fast we have no time to mourn, it HAPPENED SO FAST WE HAD NO TIME TO MOURN!! There was no sad music, no montage of Sayidness, no characters saying, “Poor Sayid,” no tears, no tearful goodbyes, no body... NOTHING. Oh, Sayid. Let’s pause for a moment before dwelling on the major death scene and say goodbye to this character (and also lend our condolences to redeem147 and Joan...). This is a man who was a torturer, but he tortured himself more than he ever did anyone else. He loved with his whole being, and he hated what he did for a living. He died, and then came back an empty shell of his former self (perhaps THAT was his true death back then?) and only when Desmond talked to him did we see the tiniest shaft of light shine out of his eyes once again. He remembered who he used to be, he remembered that he loved, and he loved mightily, and he spared Desmond, and his final act is a heroic one, jumping on the grenade, so to speak, to save everyone else. Yes, the old Sayid was in there, knowing how a bomb worked, knowing he couldn’t do anything about it, and putting himself before the others. From the moment they arrived on that island, Sayid did everything in his power to get them off. And now, in his final act, he ensured that some of them would live to maybe see their way off the island some day.

And then, Lapidus was conked unconscious and we can probably presume he died, unless he washes up on shore next week. Don’t count him out yet, because he certainly didn’t get any final heroic scenes, but on the other hand, he was peripheral compared to everyone else on that sub, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he were dead.

But... that scene. Oh, that scene. For me, the most painful death has always been Charlie’s. We watched his final act, we saw the water pour in around him, we saw him cross himself and say goodbye to Desmond, and then float upwards in quiet death. The piano, the mournful violin, it all came together in a spectacular feat of sadness that I was gutted. But this? This topped it. OK, maybe, as I wrote in my notes (and then my brother immediately emailed me after) it was a little too Titanic, with Rose letting go of Jack’s hand. But I don’t care. It was beautiful. And YES I kept thinking, “Oh my GOD if you both die, then Ji Yeon will grow up an orphan and she will be raised by the Paiks. THE PAIKS!!!” But were they really ever going to get off that island anyway? Probably not. The beauty in that moment was how they died. I was really unhappy when they were reunited and spoke English (??!!) instead of their native Korean, a language that Jin would still be thinking in, and one that Sun has used almost exclusively for the past three years. So when it was clear she was trapped, I was alarmed, and then when they started speaking in Korean, I knew it was all over, and I started sobbing. SOBBING. I was whipping Kleenexes out of the box and really LOUDLY crying, with my husband chuckling on the couch (he has NO HEART. NONE. See, if a character on The Wire died, he’d have been in tears... but he’s never had that attachment to people on Lost. He said, and I quote, “Poor Nikki and her attachment to fictional characters.” Oh yeah, buddy? Let’s see how you handle it if anything ever happens to Coach Taylor on Friday Night Lights... you will be a ball of goo on the floor). Anyway... And then they vowed they’d never be apart, and then the camera pulled back on the sub... the piano music, and then... the hands. Oh my GOD they had to show the hands. What a beautiful, beautiful image, but when the hands pulled away from each other I cried and cried some more. I wanted them to somehow be entwined for eternity. So I cried even harder. And when I finally got my sobs under control, HURLEY started sobbing and I was a mess all over again. Oh, Lost... four major characters in one go.

Why was I crying so much? I was crying for Sayid, for Jin and Sun, for Ji Yeon, a tiny bit for Frank (love the character, but it wasn’t tear-inducing, really)... but also for the end. This show only has 4 hours left (well, as of tonight, don’t know if you hear this, the finale has been extended by a full half hour, so we have four and a half hours left!) and I don’t know if I can handle these goodbyes. I don’t want to say goodbye to the characters, to the story, to the fine writing week after week... I don’t want to see the island for one last time, and know there’s no more Lost. The speculation will be over... but I LOVE the speculation!! I have to say goodbye to the questions, the mysteries, the clues, the hints. To Damon and Carlton’s skilled crafting of this series, to the collection of writers, to everything that Lost is about. I’m so excited to see it end, yet I don’t want to say goodbye.

And tonight’s episode was a forced goodbye, as if a trial run for the finale. Oh god... can I make it there?!

Highlights:
• Jack saying to Locke, “I think you’re a candidate.”
• Sawyer grabbing the gun away from “Doughboy.” HAHA!!! That was AWESOME.
• Bernard again!! We may never see them on the island again, but I’m so happy to see them in the sideways world.
• “Memory serves you were flirting with my wife Rose when I was in the bathroom.” LOL!
• Sun putting the ring back on Jin’s finger. Aw...
• Hurley when he hears Smokey: “And we’re dead.”
• Jack unlocking the cages and saying, “I’m with him.” WICKED line.
• Smokey taking out the two guys by the plane without even batting an eyelash. Oh my god that was epic.
• Kate shot!! ZOMG!

The Numbers:
Did I mention 4 major people died in this episode?? Wah.

Did You Notice?:
• So in this episode Jack seems to be putting together that something odd is happening. He hasn’t been hit by true love or a near-death experience, but he’s just using his own powers of deduction and, methinks, a faith he has in this world that he doesn’t have in the original timeline. In that one he’d think it was coincidence, but in this world he’s starting to think maybe they were on the plane for a reason. The new Jack on the island seems to have faith and a belief that things happen for a reason, and that hard-fought idea is something that the SW Jack seems to already possess. Can he put it together without falling in love or getting mowed down by Desmond?
• Sawyer gets the upper hand, but gives it up for Kate, exactly the same way he did when they were breaking rocks and he gave it because Juliet threatened to hurt Kate.
• Bernie’s still a dentist in this reality!
• There’s something odd about the way Bernard remembers Anthony Cooper, writes down the name, and when Jack says, “It was three years ago... you remember that?” he says, “Of course I do, Jack.”
• “I hope you find what you’re looking for.” Again, Bernard seems to know something more here. (OK, and I also really wanted Bono to jump out of one of those doors and start singing!)
• As Smokey is talking to Jack, you see the smoke from the campfire billowing behind him.
• Smokey is lying to Jack: We already know he can’t actually kill anyone, and he tells Jack that he spared them when he could have killed them.
• The scene of Jin and Sun chatting in the cages is so sweet. The reunion just didn’t get to me the way I wanted it to (mostly because I thought they were about to be zapped by that fence!!) and so this episode fulfilled the reunion fantasy I really wanted for so long.
• As soon as Chip is killed by Smokey, I started yelling, “Zoe!! RUN OUTSIDE!!! YOU ARE NEEDED BY THE CAGES.” ;)
• Jack being in the nursing home seemed to be him forcing Locke to be fixed... the other timeline Jack was coming through in this scene.
• When Helen went to get Anthony I said to my husband, “So is he going to be senile and drooling?” And then... he was. To which my husband replied, “Oh YEAH! In the sideways world, Anthony gets his!!” Only to find out he’s some sweet beloved man here.
• Ah, the old C4. You know, if I were Kate on the island, I’d take one look at that and say, “Oh for god’s sakes, if I see ONE more packet of that stuff, SERIOUSLY...”
• When Locke is explaining to everyone what could happen with the C4, he says, “Boom,” the same way Desmond says it while explaining the bomb in the freighter to Jin and Michael in S4.
• I’m sure it was obvious to most of us the moment Sawyer said, “I’m sorry for not trusting you” that he didn’t trust Smokey as far as he could throw him.
• OK, and right at this commercial break they had a CTV station ID with Josh Holloway looking into the camera and smirking that I’ve NEVER seen before and it made me melt. Holy freakin’ wow.
• Locke saying, “Push the button” and “I wish you had believed me” made me squeal. The first is obvious, the second was John Locke’s suicide note to Jack.
• Jack gets an Apollo bar out of the vending machine similar to the one Jacob got one from when he gave it to Jack.
• Christian died exactly the same way in both worlds. Significant?
• That rosewood box that Claire and Jack look at had a mirror in it, and notice at first it showed both of them, and then the camera turns so Claire disappeared and it was only Jack. A foreshadowing of something happening to Claire Bear?
• The first ones who run to the sub are the four Listies and Lapidus.
• The guy on the sub looked like Radzinsky! For a second I forgot we were in the same timeline and thought maybe it was him.
• Smokey said earlier that he couldn’t travel over water... I think he meant in his smoke monster form, but Jack and Sawyer seem to think he’s like the Wicked Witch of the West.
• Aw... my heart broke when they abandoned poor Claire AGAIN.
• OK, I know that technically, Jack was right and Sawyer was wrong and by Sawyer pulling the wires when he did, without consulting anyone, at least four people died. BUT... considering the last time Jack gave a big speech and was SO sure that he was right, Juliet died as a result, you can’t blame Sawyer for doing his own thing in this scene.
• “THERE IS NO SAYID!” Oh, SADNESS!!!
• John Locke is momentarily distracted as Jin walks by, as if he knows him.
• Like in the other world, Locke has an African-American male nurse.
• When Jack talks to Locke in the hallway, there’s a “Caution: Oxygen” sign behind them, right after the scene where everyone needed oxygen.
• When Jack tells Locke that he went to see his father, I just thought, “GOD, Jack, you have totally overstepped your bounds here...” I know he wants to fix him, but he has to understand that Locke has free will, and should be allowed to exercise it, even if he is punishing himself for what he did to his father.
• What was with Jack using all the catchphrases there? “What happened, happened. And... you can let it go. Come on, John, if we don’t live together, we’ll die alone. I mean, son of a BITCH! This is the beginning of the end for you. I’m a man of science, but also a man of faith... fine, if you’re leaving, fine. I’ll see you in another life, bruthah.”
• I am NOT choosing sides here, but simply pointing out that... did you notice when Hurley and Kate hit the shore, she immediately ran to Jack, grabbing him and upset that she couldn’t find him, but doesn’t seem to notice Sawyer bleeding out on the beach?

So Many Questions...
• Widmore’s list has Ford, the Kwons, and Reyes. What is his list? Considering two of the people on it are dead... does this mean bad news for Hurley and Sawyer?? NO NO NO NO!!!!
• “He’s coming.” Who is he? Is Widmore preparing for The Rapture or something? Is Jacob returning the same way Jesus returned?
• Seriously, WHY are Jin and Sun speaking English??!! It’s really bugging me. But I must admit, having them speak Korean was more powerful at the end because they spoke English up to that point, BUT then it comes off as contrived, since there’s no logical reason why they would speak in English when both of them are more at ease in that language.
• What is the significance of the rosewood box that Christian left to Claire?
• How is Claire staying at a motel if she gave Kate her credit card? (Assuming she had a second one?)
• How many people did Widmore bring with him? Every time you turn around there’s another dozen shooting at everyone.
• I don’t know anything about submarines, but why do they dive for only 30 seconds and it’ll take 5 minutes to go back up?
• “Because it’s going to be you, Jack.” What the WHAT?! Did Sayid just reveal who the candidate actually is? Because my money is on YES. I think most people have been torn between Jack and Desmond, and I’ve thought it would be Jack from the beginning of the season (though I’d be equally happy if it were a surprise).
• Locke says he’s off to finish what he started. What does that mean? He’s going to drive the rest of them to kill each other? He’s going to kill Desmond? (NOOOO!!!)


Me tomorrow:
I’m on Facebook! Come and find me. I am here. :)

Tomorrow listen in to Marshall and Forbes on The Ocean 98.5 in Victoria, BC at 7:10 a.m. local time, 10:10 a.m. EST. Go here and click on the Listen Now button if you’re out of the listening area.

And tomorrow at noon I will NOT be participating in the Globe and Mail Lost chat from noon to 1pm EST (I will be on a plane to NYC... I’m also missing an opportunity to guest-host Innerspace, ARGH) but it will still be happening! Go here to ask questions and comment.

And finally, listen to KEX 1190 at 6:20 p.m. PST, 9:20 p.m. EST where I’ll be on the Mark & Dave show (and they’re big Lost fans so it’s always fun). Go here and click the Listen Now button.

Next week:
A preview that didn’t actually reveal a THING (all old material) but I know what it’s going to focus on. Let’s just say it might be THE episode we’ve been waiting for. (Please don’t kill off anyone, please don’t kill off anyone...)

477 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   401 – 477 of 477
crazyinlost said...

@Nurse Brian-I said zero out the epi monitor, but I meant the pitocin monitor.

Gracie said...

Does anybody want to jump in with an answer to why Jacob only talks to Hurley? I understand it now because Jacob is dead, and Hurley talks to dead people. But Jacob first approached Hurley when he was alive, and he could've spoken to any or all of them. Why just Hurley? Is it only because he was able to foresee his own death and knew he would need Hurley?

Personally, I would be happy to talk to Hurley myself, but I just wondered if anyone saw that differently.

Also, Benny said: Richard, by Jacob's touch, was given the gift of immortality.

Does anyone think that maybe now that Jacob has died, Richard will begin slowly to show signs of age? OR he would if the show didn't end in two weeks? Like when Jacob died, the immortality he gave Richard died with him? OMG! I just had a horrible thought!

Does anybody think Widmore would let MIB go free if MIB gave Widmore immortality? HBFBM!! (If you don't know what that means, I can't tell you, but it's very appropriate there.) It's a less clean version of OMG!! Is that why Widmore is there? Could that be another thing he wants? OMG!!

Benny, you just gave Joan one more place to find the word "cock", didn't you? Don't hide it!

Sagacious Penguin said...
Regarding Smokey knowing Candidates are alive - I agree with those who've said it's because he's still stuck on the Island. Desmond wasn't a Candidate, so Smokey has no idea whether he's alive or dead.


I agree with this 100% and would only add that I think if everyone had died, Smokey would turn into whatever he/it looks like underneath his John Locke pajamas. Which should send Claire into a crazy she didn't know existed.

WV: friness. That crazy, overwhelming, intense, let's-go-crazy feeling that working people get when it sinks in that's it's Friday?

Gracie said...

Where was it ever written down that "men don't cry" or "big boys don't cry"? Seems to me men who are secure in their manhood aren't afraid to show what touches them emotionally. Somewhere along the way that has become like the Eleventh Commandment or something. Right up there with the belief many men seem to have that every woman who is PMSing must behave like a bi*ch.

@Fred who said: Claire was listed as a candidate, and she is still walking about.

I'm kind of liking my idea that MIB, IF he is physically able, is saving Claire for himself to make little Smokettes.

Also, aren't the remaining survivors who were Candidates (Rose, Claire, Ben) crossed out in the lighthouse? I think you're sort of disqualified (?) once you've been crossed off by Jacob, but not necessarily by MIB. Is this wrong? Why?

Fred also said: "MiB knows Jack is the true candidate to replace Jacob. (Of course, why didn't MiB just let Widmore's shelling do Jack in? Why carry him off?)."

I'm not following. If MIB knows that, then why didn't he let Widmore's shelling do Jack in?

But the fact there was a warning indicates MiB could break the rules--despite the consequences--and kill Sawyer.

I disagree with this. There were island rules that could be broken, but I don't think this is one of them. That seems like a rock-solid rule to me. MIB also seems to be running from or hurrying his plans as the boy appears to age, like MIB feels he is running out of time. As you go on to say, it would require a loophole and having someone to do it for him. It seems to me you left a word out or I'm just missing something after several readings because it sounds to me like you're arguing with yourself.

I will go over to AngeloComet to read what you are referring to, but if you happen to see this, please clarify your opinion in regards to whether or not you think MIB can kill the candidates and/or Jack, and why you feel that way? And if he wanted Jack dead, why didn't he just let Widmore kill him?

One more thing I've always wanted to bring up that crazyinlost reminded me of, "Charlie-why couldn't he have run out of the room and shut the door real quick?"

Even if you exclude the door for whatever reason, in the room Charlie was in, after the water level got high enough to slow the incoming flow, and assuming Patchy died holding the grenade, and HE was no longer a threat, Charlie could have swam out the window that was blown out by the grenade. Does anyone know how big those are? It always "appeared" that Charlie would've fit had he tried. That appearance is significant when Charlie is sort of flowing backwards after showing Desmond his hand.

Then again, in one episode Charlie said he couldn't swim (when Joanna died and Boone was rescued), and in another he's taking swimming lessons, and in another he's volunteering for a specific job that requires a good swimmer. That whole thing right there had to be writer error, and I need to check my books to see if Nikki addressed that way back when.

JS said...

@Gracie - Re: (F)Locke's scar. When he talks to the losties near the plane, or directly to Jack, you can see his forehead is smooth.

Also, if you go all the way back to season 5, when he is still in the suit, there are closeups of him, on the beach, or when he is talking to Ben and says, Welcome back to the land of the living.

Now, I am doing this from memory, so I maybe slightly off.

@SMIERT - Congratulations, great news. Rememeber, with great power (over undergrads) comes great responsibility (to put them in their place). :)

Gracie said...

Benny said about Fred's comment:
"2. Claire was listed as a candidate, and she is still walking about. [...] And she's not the only former candidate [...],
my point here is already written: FORMER candidates. They no longer are candidates. They are no longer relevant. Locke/MiB does not know who the ultimate candidate is, he only has a list. He has insisted all season long he needs to get them ALL together. He wants to kill them all at the same time, and likely needs the candidates to ultimately kill themselves."


Which is what I thought. Fred I'm sorry but I think you've got that one wrong. MIB has a list of people he believes are Candidates (which Kate is not on), and he's got to get all of them. He can't do it himself, so he has to get somebody to do it for him. That's why I was thinking when he went to get Sawyer, he was hoping to use Sawyer's anger as a tool against everyone else. Maybe he even thought it was a bonus at the time that Sawyer had been drinking. I also think MIB has some reasoning that makes time important; i.e. he's running out of time in which in can do this because of the boy's rapid growth or something like that because he obviously was dismayed the last time he saw the kid.

Would either of you be so kind as to let me know what you think is up with MIB and the jungle kid?

Gracie said...

SMIERT said: Re: A candidate giving up - Sawyer's been saying that all season, that he's through, that he doesn't want to be there, that he's not going to play the game anymore - but everyone treats him still as one of the candidates and MiB tried to blow him up too. I don't think it's as easy as just saying "no"

I think that Sawyer is making it difficult for Sawyer, and he's his own worst enemy. What you said is exactly what he says. But every time he says it, he ends up back out in the jungle running to or from something. If he'd have just parked his butt in his Otherton house after Juliet died, refused Kate, then refused to leave with FLocke, and just stayed put, maybe he'd be safe from all of this. It's his own actions that keep him in the "game".

Gracie said...

@Fred: I agree that he could have let Sawyer fall off the ladder and perhaps die, but I really believe MIB thinks he can use Sawyer's temper and anger against whomever is left, including if and when that gets down to just Sawyer and Jack. (There's no way to know if the island was done with Sawyer at that point in time.) As to your other individual "deaths", I also can't get away from MIB himself always saying he needed to get everyone together so they could all leave the island together and at the same time the island has to be finished with each of these people. From what I've seen, I tend to believe that if the plane had blown, MIB and one other person would have walked out of the fire because the island is their protection at that point in time.
I said a long time ago that I didn't know what you had to do to get off the candidate list. Rose has done it, and I think she'd make one hell of a candidate, but I still want to know what she did or what was done to her that got her eliminated to begin with. I, for one, wouldn't screw with her!
If Juliet's ghost suddenly appeared to Sawyer, I don't think he'd do a "Richard". He held that woman when she took her last breath, and he buried her himself. THEN he had Miles "listen" to her. He knows that she is dead. He also knows that John Locke, the original, is dead, but still walking around (in body if not soul), so he's not falling for another Juliet.
I would absolutely be delighted if you were right about Frank! We saw him get hit and go under, but we didn't see the floating corpse, per se, so maybe he'll be swimming ashore this week.
Questions: Does it mean anything to anybody that our four survivors, Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley are the same four people on the first list of people that I ever remember hearing about, that Michael marched over to the Others?
Does anybody think we will get an answer as to HOW the island disappeared?
Anybody (especially Joan):
Does anyone recall, or have easy access to determining, which season did the Bonus Features that had Sawyer and the "Best Cock"? For some reason, it seems that somebody on here might know that one exactly. LOL

Gracie said...

Convergence said...wv: salliff: Ummm ... I got nuthin'

How about the balliff's sister is called the salliff?

WV: shari.
1. A drunken apology is "shari"?
2. What the drunk was drinking while cooking is shari?

Benny said...

@crazyinlost: it was in reply to your 5/8/10 8:30 AM comment, where you said:
It's the same sinario as with Charlie-why couldn't he have run out of the room and shut the door real quick? They needed(?) to kill them off, so it's not that believable.


vw: moninym, word without a homonym

Benny said...

@Gracie: That's a GREAT thought. I think it certainly played a role in recruiting him at that moment. His failure to protect Juliet (and his history) was going to be a catalyst for certain actions.

There is certainly a special sense to Locke as we see him. Though I'm not sure it really is a predictive power, but rather he's a good judge of character (so to speak) to be able to forecast what the candidates are likely to play with Sayer.


@Gracie: I was under the impression from the writers that once taken, you weren't coming back. EVER! Evil incarnate, remember? Aren't the writers contradicting themselves?

Join this to the idea that's been roaming that the Locke is coming through this incarnation. Though we don't quite know how the process of taking over a body works, I wonder if the idea of taking over a candidate may weaken the effectiveness of MiB/Smokey's powers. He had a good hold on Claire until the candidates came back, and he never had a good one on Sayid, even worse when Sawyer and Jin, and now the rest, joined the crew.
Perhaps even, the candidates have a certain ability to counteract this effect, the persuasive power. Something that Dogen and Lennon were not aware of themselves?


@Gracie: Does anyone think that maybe now that Jacob has died, Richard will begin slowly to show signs of age?

I also thought about this possibility, Richard's powers are gone. But this might also mean that the candidates' powers are also gone. Given we're approaching the end, I certainly doubt it is worth discussing, but pointing the idea out is a good call.

Fred said...

@Gracie:I'm not following. If MIB knows that, then why didn't he let Widmore's shelling do Jack in?

If Jack is the ultimate candidate, then he can't be killed by just happenstance. A shell might kill everyone around him, but Jack would just be badly bruised. We had to see Ben kill Locke. If Locke was a candidate, he might find trying to hang himself the ceiling beam might break. This would have got him to wondering what was going on, and perhaps renewed his faith in his destiny. Jack surviving the shelling, he might begin to put 2 and 2 together that he just can't be killed in the normal way, and this would reinforce his faith in the island and his destiny on it. So Widmore's shells, like Richard's stick of dynamite, won't kill Jack. To do so, MiB needs another candidate figure, a sort of Ben figure.

@Gracie:There were island rules that could be broken, but I don't think this is one of them.

We disagree on this point. I believe all rules can be broken on the island, it's just the consequences are very dire for some than others. Further the fact the blonde kid warns MiB indicates MiB could act to kill a candidate. For instance, I could cheat in a game of chess by moving one of your pieces to my advantage. you'd then say that's not allowed and I'd forfeit the game. But what if you didn't see me do it? Hard to believe the island wouldn't see MiB cheat, especially in such a dramatic way, but we never know. I take it the fact MiB is warned indicates he can break the rule. That's why I think Sawyer will be MiB's loophole and do in Jack as Ben did in Jacob. Who knows, and as this is LOST, we can expect most anything. Afterall, what was this whole build up of Ilana, only to have her blow up. One other reason I am hoping Frank comes back, as so far he's done nothing but deliver a few corny lines.

Gracie said...

@Benny, Benny, Benny! You did it again! And made me cry again.

I know I ramble on, but I live in a chair for God's sake! I stayed up all night long so I could carry over my mental status to Mother's Day, and not wake up a zombie that my family has to tolerate. This place has saved me mentally. Literally saved me. I've had days when I could NOT find my a$$ with two hands and a flashlight, and I couldn't begin to tell you what it feels like to think you are slowly losing your mind because everything, the simplest of things, is so confusing to you! And to watch your family watch you disintegrate. Nobody wants to go there.

Lost is very confusing to the smartest of people. I DO know that! It takes a lot of concentration and the ability to remember things and think things through. So here I come to Nik at Nite to think, read, ramble, and try to remember. And here, I've gotten better!

And then Benny comes along once in a while to say that I had a great thought, and that one of my thoughts can go with one of Benny's. Benny, who I respected long before I actually managed to get logged in on here, as a deep and serious thinker and a co-lover of All Things Lost. There are several people here just like you that I followed before you even knew I was alive! Your opinions mean so much, and to get comments like that at this point does nothing but encourage me. I'm heading in the right direction!!FINALLY!

And to you, Benny, just like Nikki, it was probably just another comment which could have had anyone's name on it. And you'll just write it off as a pat on the back. Good Lord! I wish I could write well enough to make you people see what you do FOR me!

Thank you Benny! My Mother's Day is complete now. I'm a Happy Camper! (Just so nobody misunderstands that, my family is here with me today, we are going to have a lovely dinner, and they've made my day too with their thoughtfulness! I am feeling very lucky right now.)

Benny said: Perhaps even, the candidates have a certain ability to counteract this effect, the persuasive power. Something that Dogen and Lennon were not aware of themselves?
Could this ability to defeat Flocke's power be the simple persuasive power, and the ability to recognize that power, of love? And to literally lay down your life for those you love? Maybe the island's former tenants were not able to do or to see that for whatever reason.

Zari said...

@Rainier to Sonshine: - HUGE congratulations!!! Dude, that is AWESOME!!!! (Yes, I know that strictly speaking, you are not a 'dude', but then, neither am I, and 'Dude' was my nickname for years....)

Of course, you’re not ‘Dudes’ – you’re DUDETTES! ;*)

Congratulations, SonshineRebecca, and much good luck and success!

Word Verf: deniden : I’m in the middle of the den...now why did I come in here?

Rebecca T. said...

@Gracie: Does it mean anything to anybody that our four survivors, Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley are the same four people on the first list of people that I ever remember hearing about, that Michael marched over to the Others?

Actually, Jack wasn't on that original list, because that's the first time we hear about Jacob - when Pickett says Shepard wasn't on Jacob's list - only on Ben's.

JS said...

@SonshineMusic - Actually, even tho Pickett says Shephard is not on Jacob's list (turns out he was wrong), Shephard was on Ben's/Ms. Klughs list.

Benny said...

@JS: I think that's Sonshine's point. Jack is on Ben/MsKlugh's list, but according to Pickett, not Jacob's.

Pickett may be right, or he may be mistaken. I think one thing to point out is that the Others let Hurley go back to the beach camp to tell the others.

JS said...

@SonshineMusic - der, I just corrected you by saying the thing you said.
I need to read ALL the words.

Rebecca T. said...

@JS: that's okay. I was confused at first, so I didn't reply, but I guess we were saying the same thing, but in different ways?

Anyways. :)

VW: pinat - marking a point on a map

Gracie said...

@Fred: @Gracie:I'm not following. If MIB knows that, then why didn't he let Widmore's shelling do Jack in?

If Jack is the ultimate candidate, then he can't be killed by just happenstance. A shell might kill everyone around him, but Jack would just be badly bruised. We had to see Ben kill Locke. If Locke was a candidate, he might find trying to hang himself the ceiling beam might break. This would have got him to wondering what was going on, and perhaps renewed his faith in his destiny. Jack surviving the shelling, he might begin to put 2 and 2 together that he just can't be killed in the normal way, and this would reinforce his faith in the island and his destiny on it. So Widmore's shells, like Richard's stick of dynamite, won't kill Jack. To do so, MiB needs another candidate figure, a sort of Ben figure.


Okay on this one, I think we are arguing the same side but using different words cause I agree with what you said about the Candidate BUT I do NOT think the Candidate is Jack. LOL So we agree yet disagree.

@Gracie:There were island rules that could be broken, but I don't think this is one of them.

We disagree on this point. I believe all rules can be broken on the island, it's just the consequences are very dire for some than others. Further the fact the blonde kid warns MiB indicates MiB could act to kill a candidate. For instance, I could cheat in a game of chess by moving one of your pieces to my advantage. You'd then say that's not allowed and I'd forfeit the game. But what if you didn't see me do it? Hard to believe the island wouldn't see MiB cheat, especially in such a dramatic way, but we never know. I take it the fact MiB is warned indicates he can break the rule. That's why I think Sawyer will be MiB's loophole and do in Jack as Ben did in Jacob. Who knows, and as this is LOST, we can expect most anything. After all, what was this whole build up of Ilana, only to have her blow up. One other reason I am hoping Frank comes back, as so far he's done nothing but deliver a few corny lines.


to be continued

Gracie said...

Cont. @ Fred
Okay, I think they want you to think that Sawyer is MIB's Ben Part Two, but Sawyer is very soon gonna see the light of day, I believe. After blaming Jack for killing Juliet, and then being the "cause" of FOUR deaths by his own hand, Sawyer is gonna be deep in the hurts and looking for blood. When he regains consciousness, he's gonna be a man on a mission, and I think his target is gonna be Flocke. IF, big word, Jack can get him to listen to what he is saying, OR just look around, OR just think about what just happened, Sawyer will be looking to avenge Juliet's death as well as the four he caused (particularly his buddy Jin) AND the loss of both of his rides home. Sawyer is going to know that Jack did NOT do this, HE did (Sawyer). He had more faith, sort of, in MIB than he did in Jack. (I think.) MIB, meanwhile has been planning to use Sawyer's anger against Sawyer and direct it towards Jack. I think this plan is about to fall apart.
Also, whomever little jungle boy is, I think FLocke is terrified of him. Or he is terrified of the "time" that the boy represents and the passing of it as exhibited by the boy's aging. Something with this child is giving FLocke the heebie jeebies. That can't be good, for FLocke!

MOST IMPORTANTLY, everyone seems to be so sure that the boy was talking about Sawyer when he said to Flocke, "You know the rules. You can't kill him." Spouse and I always thought the boy was talking about Richard because that's who Flocke was with when the boy first appeared. And, in fact, they CANNOT kill Richard. Nobody can because he's been granted eternal life. But were they talking about Richard OR Sawyer? (When Spouse first brought this up at work everyone was sure it was Sawyer until they went home and rewatched that episode which was "The Substitute". Then they came back very unsure of what this whole thing meant. If we've missed something, his co-workers didn't pick it up either.) I will grant that FLocke runs after the boy when he was with Sawyer, but he first appeared when Flocke was with Richard. So why did everyone immediately assume he was talking about Sawyer, while we thought he meant Richard? I think this is in the eye of the beholder, because NOTHING is ever said that we've seen to say for sure who the boy was talking about. The only known is that Flocke knows the rules and cannot kill him, whomever "him" is. Now, think about it. Or go back and watch it. Are we right? What do you know that we missed? Please explain?

As always, I could be completely wrong about everything. Remains to be seen.

Nurse Brian said...

@crazyinlost: Again, I'm very sorry to hear you had to go through all that! In my honest opinion, I would say that similar things may have happened to other mothers around that time. And like I was saying, methods and protocols have changed much in the past few years, in hopes that situations like yours don't happen again. Actions taken at that time may or may not be standard protocol anymore (I can't really say, I wasn't there!). As much as it pains the medical team, we do have to follow protocols (like the discontinuation of pitocin or your epidural), and we trust that doctors make the best decisions based on current research and medical knowledge.

@Gracie: I didn't even get the mirror effect As beautiful as seeing the birth of your child, I think you seeing your own abdominal incision may be traumatizing. I'm not saying you couldn't handle that, but why risk it? I'm surprised your spouse was able to see that as well. At the hospital I was rotating at, we don't like loved one's in the operating room in fear of them having an anxiety attack, let alone passing out. I don't know if I could handle seeing my loved one like that. Also, if I am in that situation, I'll do my best to be as considerate to a mother's feelings, but maintain my service of keeping both the mother and baby from any harm.

Also, RE: Hurley & Jacob - I'd say Jacob approaches Hurley because he is the most neutral of the group. His major wants are to protect his friends, regardless of them being on the island or not. Jack and Sawyer? They are influenced by their desires of staying on and leaving the island, respectively. Kate and Claire has baggage that is leaving the island and caring for Aaron, which would affect their decision making. Jin and Sun (sigh) operating/thinking as a couple could have been a factor. Sayid (double sigh), I'd say, was compromised with his broken spirit as a torturer and his further sins. I'm not saying the rest of the castaways don't care about each other, I'd just say Hurley cares about everyone; he's neutral in the concept that his caring isn't with major motive. Hugo "Hurley" Reyes just cares.

WV: jispleav - How I respond to an offer of milk after eating a giant peanut butter & jelly sandwich.

WV2: hecces - "hecces, she says; blah blah blah!"

Ambivalentman said...

Wow, lots of comments here! I've got a lot of reading to do.

Great post, Nikki. I'm am still shaken up by the ending.

I finally posted my thoughts at my blog: www.pop-culture-pundit.blogspot.com.

The last half-hour of this episode was some of the finest work we've seen in this series. And if this drained some of our emotions, imagine how we'll respond to the finale...

Well, off to reading the comments...

Gracie said...

I hope it's quiet in here tonight because it's Mother's Day and not because of the elephant in the room. Laugh with me Guys cause I have to laugh at myself sometimes! Or if you can't laugh with me, please just let me roll with it when it's so apparent that I am having a good day. It feels good to feel good.

The people in this blog are just the best!

Blam said...


I'm way behind on comments here, but... Congrats, Sonshine, and Happy Mother's Day, Nikki and all the other moms aboard!

VW: OusLad — Young suffix-oriented superhero.

Gracie said...

@Nurse Brian said: I'm surprised your spouse was able to see that as well.

Spouse is always interested in learning how things work. And the greatest thing to learn about is the human body. Our doctor at that time knew what Spouse was like, and had talked to him about "in the event of an emergency". The men "exchanged agreements" and Spouse would have to step out immediately if or when he was told to do so. When the situation arose, the doctor knew to what extent Spouse was prepared and because he felt the situation was in hand, allowed him to stay. It was an education that he could never get anywhere else, and he loved it. He wanted to see it all and he did. Until they swept by with Child and let me "see" her, we did have a situation going on, and it was frightening, but Spouse watched the whole thing, did precisely what he was told when he was told, and has said it was probably the only thing he's ever going to see that he could never fully describe in a way that would do justice to the event.
We were blessed that everything worked out, and Spouse will always be "Wow!" about the whole thing. I don't think about if things had gone another way, and I'm not sure he ever thought that could happen.

As far as an anxiety attack or passing out, I don't think that's possible with him and the human body. He thinks everything is fascinating. Just the way everything works perfectly together is amazing. I feel the same way.

There is no other design to rival the way the human body works.

I believe it was Rainier who said earlier in the blog that she has more respect for nurses than the egotistical, higher paid, yet equally educated doctors she's had. She spoke of that so perfectly that I didn't comment at the time because she had it all covered quite well. I agree 100%. Sad, but true. I have said that after we shoot all the lawyers, let's line up the doctors next - not everyone sees the sarcasm. Of course, this doesn't apply to all doctors. So far I've met two that were worth the co-pay and more.

You are gonna be a great nurse! Don't doubt it. Your attitude will guide your career.

Thank you for your comments on Hurley and Jacob too.

Gracie said...

@Fred
Gracie said: It seems to me you left a word out or I'm just missing something after several readings because it sounds to me like you're arguing with yourself.


I must have read your comment to which I made this reply 25 times at least. And if I had kept reading what I thought you meant instead of what was actually there, you would have continued to argue with yourself. (I inserted one word that my brain must have insisted was going to be there that changed the entire meaning of everything. Like adding the word "not" to any sentence.)

Thank you for your patience. I understand what you've said now.

Joan Crawford said...

@Nurse Brian - I think you seeing your own abdominal incision may be traumatizing.


I honestly can't think of anything I want to see more. I asked to look but they wouldn't let me :( I made my husband look and he goes green and says "There is...a lot of red and guts." He didn't like it but did admit it was pretty cool.
I got to sit in on a surgery once and it was amazing. I LOVE that stuff. I especially love wound debridement - the incredible satisfaction you get from vanquishing legions of bacteria is the best feeling ever.
I need to have lived during the Black Plague - man, what I would give to tend the ill back then.

It's time to lance your boil - squee!

Fred said...

@Gracie: And if I had kept reading what I thought you meant instead of what was actually there, you would have continued to argue with yourself.

Ah, yes, Gracie. You may be right, and I am arguing with myself. Not the first time as I try to work my way through LOST.

One thing I've pondered all the while is whether what we have been seeing is really real. I am always puzzled by Rose and Bernard opting out of the whole game, as though they've seen through it all. Then there is that boat Ben walked by called the "Illusion." I was finishing Robert Sawyer's Flashback when I ran across the idea that if no consciousness is available the universe doesn't cease to exist, but fails to resolve itself into a particular reality (visually, it is fuzzy white noise). At one point Ben said, even God does not see the island.

There was a philosopher called George Berkley, who postulated that existence is dependent on perception by some being, and all existence is dependent on God seeing all things. On LOST, God is absent (sorry, all those who think LOST is a psalm to religious belief), and so reality depends on individual perceptions. This idea has been kicked around the internet for some time. Combine this with Robert Sawyer's notion of quantum instability, and you have the island is a quantum box, or Schrodinger Box. Reality depends on an observer, but even more so reality changes with observers. Hence, when Miles walked up the stairs to rid the house of the ghost, the pictures were framed in wood, but coming down they were framed in metal. So suppose the island, and perhaps the whole world of LOST we've been watching is a giant Schrodinger Box.

If that's the case, then nothing is real, except as characters see it. (In fact, we never saw the crash of Flight 815, but the instant materialization of the survivors on the beach--did any of us ever believe anyone could survive such a crash landing). If Jack wants to see his dead father, yup, he is there. Want to see a tower no one else saw. Sure. Oh, and, want to time travel. Damon Lindehof had said no time travel at one point early seasons ago. Maybe he wasn't lying. So nothing new here. Much of this has been discussed on the internet.

Fred said...

cont...

Maybe Rose and Bernard figured it out, and opted out. Maybe Smokie has also figured it out, and says there's nothing to protect about the island. All true possibilities. And maybe that explains Jacob's metaphor about needing to keep the "evil" corked on the island. Maybe by releasing MiB, the quantum properties of the island spill out into the real world (i.e. Alt timeline). That would bring Dharmanian science back into the fold of the story.

There was another book referenced on the show, The Invention of Morel. Morel's invention was a machine that recorded people's souls and replayed the same day's events over and over. A loop, sound familiar? We know the island has strange electromagnetic properties, so it might be a Morelian machine, recording consciousnesses from individuals flying over head, or on the real world island. But, like Morel's invention, if the consciousness is so perfectly recorded it becomes aware of itself, it will want a body, a past, a future. The consciousness would think itself alive and act accordingly. But it would never escape the island, even when it thinks it has returned to the wider world. It's all operating within the electromagnetic forces of the island. But if the consciousness on the island is identical with real individuals off the island, then the two might connect,as we've seen in this season. There is a bleed through both ways.

So some people who are aware in both worlds (the Alt timeline and the Schrodinger Box-island) know what is going on and want to keep the two effects apart--hence Ms Hawking telling Demond to leave it alone, or Bernard being reluctant to give into Jack's curiousity about Cooper. At the same time, maybe the Schrodinger Box-island is trying to resolve its own problem of settling into one state--hence find a replacement for Jacob, or find a single consciousness to be the only watcher on the island. Then that reality won't be shifting about as it is now.

Well, that's the big picture. And I'm sure not only that it's wrong but that I would even change it in a day or two. I mean, no time travel, no reality, no one there in any real sense. But if it's right, then no one died on the island. But on the other hand it wasn't just a dream, or something like Matrix. But it certainly would be a con or a magic show we've enjoyed.

Fred said...

@Gracie: continued from above, just another thought:

Also we can think of Jacob as a sort of Maxwell Demon. Maxwell's Demon regulates the entry of energetic molecules into a two chamber box. Similarly, Jacob selects who gets onto the island. Then MiB would be the counter to Maxwell's Demon, or entropy, the smoothing out of energy in the universe. Thomas Pynchon used this idea in a short story, where two apartments represent the two conditions. In one, entropy reigns, and the occupant dies. In the other, where a party is going on, the owner is running round making sure everyone is fed etc. One apartment contains a dead body (cold), while the other is lively, full of energy (hot). So Jacob sees life as energetic, full of possibilities (hot) and hence everyone is running round; while MiB sees it as decaying to the same end (cold) and hence dead bodies (which MiB takes over). Jacob = Maxwell's Demon; MiB = Entropy.

Rainier said...

@Gracie: I hope it's quiet in here tonight because it's Mother's Day and not because of the elephant in the room.

There's an elephant?

crazyinlost said...

@Gracie-i.e. Jacob, " Why just Hurley? Is it only because he was able to foresee his own death and knew he would need Hurley?"

This makes sense to me.

and..."Personally, I would be happy to talk to Hurley myself, but I just wondered if anyone saw that differently."

Me too. I just hope we don't have to be dead yet!

and..."Does anyone recall, or have easy access to determining, which season did the Bonus Features that had Sawyer and the "Best Cock"? For some reason, it seems that somebody on here might know that one exactly. LOL"

I already emailed you with this, but for anyone else who is interested, I think it is on the s4 bonus features titled, "The Right to Bare Arms", where they talk about keeping track of all the guns on the show, i.e. who has them now, and where did they come from. It's pretty amusing, and I dont remember this specific quote, but it seems a logical place for it to be.

crazyinlost said...

@Benny-okay, sorry for the misread.

Austin Gorton said...

@GracieDoes anybody want to jump in with an answer to why Jacob only talks to Hurley? I understand it now because Jacob is dead, and Hurley talks to dead people. But Jacob first approached Hurley when he was alive, and he could've spoken to any or all of them. Why just Hurley? Is it only because he was able to foresee his own death and knew he would need Hurley?

I think it comes down to Jacob's conversation with Hurley outside the lighthouse: some people, he can just hop in a cab and tell them to come back to the island, other people need a little push.

So for everyone else, Jacob had to pop up at key points in their lives and help nudge them toward the island. Hurley, he could just get in his cab and have a straight conversation with him.

Does anybody think we will get an answer as to HOW the island disappeared?

I highly doubt we'll get more of an explanation beyond "weird EM energy". That strikes me as the kind of "midichlorian" answer the producers have been adamant about not answering all season.

Benny said...

@Gracie/Teebore:
Does anybody think we will get an answer as to HOW the island disappeared?

I highly doubt we'll get more of an explanation beyond "weird EM energy". That strikes me as the kind of "midichlorian" answer the producers have been adamant about not answering all season.


I think there is a way to avoid the 'midichlorian' interpretation. My idea is that turning the wheel creates an EM field that puts the island in a different phase than the outside world.

I would say that the 'moving' was not a moving per se but made it out of synch with the outside world and time. So while the island was still 'there', it just wasn't a physical entity in the same capacity as the ocean/earth.

1. Desmond turning the key made it somewhat visible; 2. Ben turning the wheel made it out of synch and unstable; 3. Locke putting the wheel back stabilized it.
[I see the wheel as a resetting device]

Everything revolves around an EM-field obviously, and we now know that there are multiple pockets of EM energy.

There are other theories, and I think that the lack of a definitive answer is what leads to the 'midichlorian' interpretation. But I'd say that the HOW/WHY was just left to the viewer's interpretation, imagination.

Kiki said...

Fred said...
@Gracie:I'm not following. If MIB knows that, then why didn't he let Widmore's shelling do Jack in?


I think I am now thinking a little differently on this whole candidates can't commit suicide and what can kill a candidate. In the end it is all just determined by if the Island is done with them or not. Not sure that being a candidate makes a difference to the Island. Maybe the Island is really in charge and Jacob and MiB do there best to play the game with the candidates (and others) they have until they don't have them anymore

Marebabe said...

@SonshineRebecca: I’d like to add my congratulations for your wonderful news. Mazel tov!

@Joan: “It’s time to lance your boil.” Eewww! ;)

Nurse Brian said...

Gosh, I could have sworn that I commented last night! Oh well. Maybe the ghost of my comment is trapped on the island! (:crickets:) (I'm lame.)

@Gracie: Okay, now I totally see how your spouse was able to sit in. I agree, those kinds of experiences aren't gonna come easy if you're not in the medical field! And thank you for the well wishes in my career!

@Joan Crawford: It's not so much that we don't think you could handle it, we just want to protect you. Heaven forbid a "consenting" patient gets to observe their surgery during the procedure and suddenly going into shock from surprise. It'd be pretty cruel of us to the patient, from an outside perspective anyway! We're trying to look out for you psychologically just as much as physically! Also, LOL at your Black Plague and boil crack!

@Benny, Gracie, Teebore: RE: The Island and Midichlorians - I definitely don't think we NEED an absolute be-all-end-all answer, you know? I mean, how badly did some people groan at the whole Force explanation in Episode 1? I'm sure some people will accept it, but I'm sure some others will have a similar Episode 1 reaction. I think Benny makes some good points on what the EM energy does. Would a "science" lesson at the series finale suffice? I kinda loved how Faraday gave a "Time Travel for the Non-scientists" lesson the last few seasons. For them to sit us and the cast all down and discuss Electromagnetism would be kinda boring, especially in the last few episodes (*tear*).

Nurse Brian said...

One last thing. If you ARE interested in some basic knowledge of Electromagnetism, and you LOVE superheroes, I HIGHLY suggest reading the book The Physics of Superheroes by James Kakalios. In the electromagnetism chapter, he discusses said topic in relation to Marvel Villains (if my memory serves me) Electro and Magneto (hur, get it?). It's an easy read and written in such a fun way that you won't bore yourself to death trying to understand!

Heres the link: http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Superheroes-James-Kakalios/dp/1592401465

WV: ingst - (verb) antonym of oust, to welcome with open arms!

Austin Gorton said...

@Nurse Brian: I'll second the recommendation, and add that the author is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet.

He's a professor at the University of Minnesota and usually makes an appearance at our local comic convention every year. He really is as passionate about superheroes as he is science, which is what makes the book so much fun.

Sagacious Penguin said...

This is a great discussion.

The trouble for me with the theory that Smokey only wanted/needs to kill Jack is that he made such a big deal about gathering all the candidates in one place. And, Fred, you're right - saving Sawyer and Kate and Jack at different times WOULD be inexplicable... but only if it weren't important for him to gather everyone together before offing individuals.

There's got to be some reason why they all needed to be together to finish ALL the candidates off. Perhaps only Candidates can kill other Candidates, so if one is left alive at the end of the slaughter, then Smokey's in big trouble? This might explain whey he didn't have/let them be picked off one by one. Or perhaps if there's only one Candidate left alive, that's how that person becomes Jacob's successor? And Smokey wants to avoid that by wiping them all out at once? Not certain, but I agree there's more to this than we currently know. Do remember that Smokey has some degree of foresight as he was able to pinpoint the exact moment for Richard to patch up time-traveling Locke's gunshot wound and give him the compass in 5.15 (Follow The Leader). Though apparently he's not ALL knowing since his plan to kill them all failed.

One thing I'm pretty certain of: ex-candidates indeed don't matter to Smokey except as bait for the remaining Candidates. And we don't currently know how someone goes from Candidate to ex-candidate, but I doubt it's optional. Sawyer would chose to remove his candidacy for sure if he could... but it's something in "The Rules" that Jacob and MIB play by that controls this, not something the Candidates can control themselves.

Also, regardless of the reason and the motivation and precisely what being "free" means for Smokey -- all of which I expect we'll find out more about soon -- none of that affects that his knowing his plan failed on the dock is connected to his knowing that nothing in his nature or captivity status have changed. Even if he WAS only after Jack, even if he has no idea who all died and/or lived, it felt pretty clear that all he knew was that something went wrong for him because he would physically KNOW if he'd succeeded and won the game.

Sagacious Penguin said...

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I got my blog up.

Here's an excerpt for discussion here on a topic broached, but not explored as much as some others:

Widmore's Mission:
Widmore's roll in all this subterfuge is a bit more unclear. His original mysterious intentions of seeking Island energy pocketts with Jin and Desmond might currently be scuttled, but did he really do as the MIB suggested and move the sonic fence pylons so that the MIB would attempt to escape with the Candidates on the Ajira plane? I kinda doubt it. Widmore clearly has a list of the remaining Candidates (information not even Richard was privy to), and if Widmore knew enough to name the Candidates, wouldn't he know that the MIB also wants them dead? If the MIB is truly his enemy (which their showdown on the beach in 6.12 [Everybody Loves Hugo] sure appeared to indicate), then Widmore's putting the Candidates in a cage behind the reset pylons would be a true attempt to protect them, just as he said. But then who exactly DID rig the Ajira plane with explosives?

Richard's Mission:
Well we DO know that when last we saw Richard (6.12 [Everybody Loves Hugo), he was setting out with Ben and Miles to do precisely that: blow up the Ajira plane with explosives... so where the heck were they this week? Perhaps the trio started the job but then got interrupted and/or captured by Widmore's team before they could finish it. This doesn't explain why Widmore moved his pylons, but it at least might explain how the explosives got put into place -- and maybe even why ghost-Michael was so insistent that Hurley not allow dynamite to be brought to Hydra Island. Either the Ajira plane is important and needs to be intact to avoid further death, or else Michael somehow knew that an attempt to destroy the plane would result in death. Which -- if indeed Team Richard was responsible for planting the C-4 -- it now has. Either way, hopefully Richard, Miles, and Ben will turn up soon and clear some of this up.


As always, if you like my thoughts, you can find more at:
sagaciouspenguin.blogspot.com :)

Benny said...

Random thought

This week's episode is titled Across the Sea, and will be a Hurley episode.

Question: what happens with Hurley in the Sideways now that he has seen 'across' to the other side?
Hmmmm...


By the way... love the credit: "Boy in Black"

Sagacious Penguin said...

@ Benny - That's a great idea, but I can't see it being Hurley since they had one for him so recently. Maybe a different' character "wakes up" in the Sideways world and sees Across the Sea in the same way you describe. I'm still sort of wishing they'd give Miles an episode, though I can't really see that happening. Also, it would be a cool title for a Shannon throwback since she sang the song back in Season 1... though she has yet to make an apperance this season. Would be cool if she and Sayid met up in the Sideways though and that song had significance for them there too... But part of me also thinks they're done with the usual style of 'centricity' now that we've had two episodes in a row that had rather a multi-focus...

If we're meeting Man in Black at a young age as "boy in black" though, that might not fit into ANY typical character focus! MIB flashback would be awesome too. Unless he's just seeing more visions of kids in the jungle...

peacockblue said...

I want to tell you guys some good news! There’s no need to worry about Sayid. He’s in Toronto on business, as he said he would be (disregard that he said it in the Alt world and is in jail). And he’s with me! My regrets to all you other DURALSAC’s. I’m in Toronto and found him first. We had a wonderful weekend walking High Park, going to the ROM, the AGO, the Science Centre (Harry Potter exhibit), and an even better time staying in ;) I know y’all will be concerned that Sayid’s girlfriends have a short lifespan. But don’t worry about me. I don’t plan on going on a picnic with him and I’ll stay out of traffic. But if needed, I’ll take a bullet for h..............................Aaaaagggghhhh

Benny said...

@SP: I also found it odd, but I was only going with the WIRED picture whiteboard, which listed The Candidate as a "Jack/Locke" episode, which it felt, and The Last Recruit as "Roundelay" (podcast said multi-centric).
Now, interestingly, "roundelay" is defined by Merriam-Webster as: a poem with a refrain recurring frequently or at fixed intervals as in a rondel.
Do we remember any thing that was repeated with high frequency last week?
Oceanic 815 connections maybe... (notice in the following episode, the phrase "Oceanic 815" if uttered quite frequently).


That being said, I was looking at the Across the Sea box and because of the photo flash, we cannot see the name well and I thought it said "[HUR]LEY". Upon closer inspection, the 'L' does look sideways and could in fact be the branches of a partially flash-cut 'K'...

Hmmmmm, what (still alive) character's name ends with "KEY"?

Jackey
Katekey
Sawyerkey
Hurleykey
Lockey
Mileskey
Richardkey
Benkey
Widmorekey
Zoekey
Desmondkey
....
nothing yet
...
Smokey!

Which makes me retract my previous post about it being a Hurley episode and thank then Dear Sagacious Penguin for making me rethink and review and analysis... also finding "roundelay" in the process!

Nurse Brian said...

@Teebore: That's what I had heard too! I know he came to the San Diego Comic Con a few years back, but I wasn't able to go because the tickets already sold out!

Haha, glad to hear my book recommendations aren't LOST (hurr, get it? /lame) on anyone!

WV: lista - What Mario and Luigi bring to the grocery store

Unknown said...

@Peacockblue - Hahahaha! Love it :D

crazyinlost said...

@Benny-"For Sayid, I agree that he didn't need to die. Though maybe we could think he ran more than we saw, those 30 seconds were just cut from the episode..."
I really think he did WANT to die at that point, after he got his soul back. That would've been his way of redeeming himself. I remember way back at the beginning of s6 (long long ago...) talking to Hurley, he asked where he was going when he died, and realizing it wasn't going to be a nice place after all he had done. I think he just wanted to be done with it (he was tired of being only MOSTLY dead!)

word verif-disakesh-when you have only taken one sock of so far.

crazyinlost said...

@Fred-"Maybe Frank will fly them out."

You know, I have been wondering about this since they mentioned flying the airplane out. Didn't the windshield in the cockpit, or the side window by the co-pilot get broken? This would've been how the c.p. got inpaled. How are they gonna fix the window? Is AAA gonna come out and give them a new one? Can't imagine Franks would last long in that invironment!

word verif-dectiv-someone who investigates claims concerning decks, i.e. house break-ins, fraudulent contractors, etc.

Max said...

Awesome review!

http://www.somethingeveryday.co.uk/about

Kiki said...

Sp said -- Sawyer would chose to remove his candidacy for sure if he could.

I read this, moved on, then had to come back to it. I'm not so sure that Sawyer would. His main objective this season has been to get off the island. But I think is more about losing Juliet than haveing anything to do with being a candidate. If he knew what he was a candidate for it might change his mind. I feel like he is just looking for a purpose. While Juliet was alive, he was happy living on the island. Early on in the series he asked Kate why she would want to leave the island. I'm not giving up on the possibility that Sawyer might "see the light."

Benny said...

@crazyinlost: That's an interesting thought! From a production standpoint, Sayid didn't need to die (neither did Sun and Jin). But from a storywise something needed to happen.

The interpretation of the character's will is definitely interesting and debatable (and unverifiable). I think that Sayid wanting to die may be strictly within the character's self and unrelated to the overarching goals of the group.

In the case of Charlie, it was a different situation. He didn't WANT to die, but HE FELT HE NEEDED TO. Did Sayid feel he needed to die? Probably not, did he want to die?

That's where your interpretation kicks in. And it cannot be called incorrect because the reasoning is sound. And there also exists a reasoning that would suggest Sayid made a sacrificial move despite not wanting to die.

Kiki said...

Sagacious Penguin said...
@ Benny - That's a great idea, but I can't see it being Hurley since they had one for him so recently. Maybe a different' character "wakes up" in the Sideways world and sees Across the Sea in the same way you describe.


Jack seems like a likely candidate since he was starting to put so many connections together.

Benny said -- Smokey! I think you're right. I remember them showing this weeks episode as a kind of explanation of the whole Jacob and MiB situation. So maybe we find out what Smokey is all about!

Just looked at the picture again. . .could it be something that ends with 'fy'? Might not be a character -- like roundelay.

Kiki said...

Benny said -- Did Sayid feel he needed to die? Probably not, did he want to die?

I think Sayid felt that he had already died. He said he felt nothing, even though it seems that the old Sayid was coming out a little -- that might have even been more torturous knowing that you should care and feel but don't. And maybe his conversation with Desmond made a difference -- He could have shared some of the island's mysteries, just like after he was exposed to the electromagnatism he had a whole new outlook on things.

wv - craicks -- How Desmond desribes the divisions of sidewalks.

Benny said...

@Kiki: It's possible given that a big part of the word is cutout. Because of the visible branched letter leading to 'E/F', I looked for words ending in 'KFY' & 'RFY' & 'XFY' and only found the following:
- Turfy
- Surfy
- Scurfy
Which don't yield much in terms of information. 'Roundelay' felt like 'coming around' or 'rounding out' which the episode did - multicentric.


Looking at the picture in the magazine, I checked the letters with others in the other written parts. If you look closely, the 'E' on the board, all have a rounded bottom (for the 3rd bar), where as the 'F' are all quite straight down.

As for the 'K' and 'R', they both sometimes have a hooked leg, and sometimes don't.

This convinces me that the last two letters are indeed 'EY' while the third from last is either 'K' or 'R'.


@Kiki: And that's another interpretation of Sayid's actions as well. Remember hos in season 4 many believed Claire had died in the barrack explosion. This would suggest that the Claire we see is analogous to the post-Temple Sayid as well.

From what we have been told of the show, I think they are all legitimate interpretations and is one of those things that will be talked about following the end of the show.

Kiki said...

Benny said -- From what we have been told of the show, I think they are all legitimate interpretations and is one of those things that will be talked about following the end of the show.

You had to go and say it, "the end of the show" sniff,sniff

And I do think you are right about the EY -- looking at other letters on the board, very clever! Just thought I'd throw the fy to see if brains more clever than mine could come up with anything. You know on Lost we have to question everything! Sometimes to our own detriment!

Benny said...

@Kiki: The best way to cope with something horrible is by facing it head on!

Also, we'll truly know tonight what might be written on that white board!

Kiki said...

Benny -- I go back to someone's mention of that river in Egypt. :)

I think you all did a re-watch before I found this blog. Any interest by anyone in doing a start to finish once we know "all the answers" to watch for things we missed and pat ourselves on the back for things we caught. It has been so long for me since I watched the first few seasons, I need a refresher. You all blow me away with everything you know! Sometimes I feel so Lost . . .

Kiki said...

Found Nikki's rewatch site and saw you guys just ended in January -- You are probably not up for it all again!

Benny said...

EVERYONE

Does anyone here consider the information given in the podcasts as spoilers?

I personally take it as either:
1. reinforcing already known facts; or,
2. confirming postulated assumptions that won't be confirmed on-screen.

Thoughts? Should we discuss information given in recent podcasts (I assume previous seasons' podcasts are fair game) or should we avoid them as possibly spoilery for some readers?

Austin Gorton said...

FWIW, *I* don't consider podcast info as spoilery, simply because Darlton usually doesn't say much about upcoming episodes, but rather clarifies what's already happened or confirms interpretations.

Zari said...

Benny, I agree with Teebore

Darlton's podcasts only reinforce already known facts or confirm interpretations. More often than not, Darlton say a lot without saying anything!

Cast members, too, have been very circumspect in what they say about upcoming episodes. Jorge Garcia, though, just posted a pic on his blog "To Blow Our Minds" ?!?

Kiki said...

Zari said -- Cast members, too, have been very circumspect in what they say about upcoming episodes. Jorge Garcia, though, just posted a pic on his blog "To Blow Our Minds" ?!?

I just saw that too. Makes me wonder if it is a "fake" though. I can't believe he would reveal anything that would "ruin" the upcoming episodes for fans. In fact, it makes me rethink assumptions about that character. He might of just tipped me off in that direction!

Benny said...

@Zari/Kiki: I can't say this is spoilery. When the 'cave' episode aired, the producers came out and said that "51. Austen" should have appeared in that scene and unfortunately, that sequence was cut in the editing room.

But keep in mind that the 'cave' episode (with 51.Austen scratched) aired PRIOR to The Lighthouse which did not have 51.Austen scratched out.

There is a segment in the latest podcast about Kate, for anyone interested.

Benny said...

So while some people might think this might ruin, keep in mind: IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SEEN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON.
So from Jorge's perspective, he just showed us what (most of the) fans knew already.

Jacob's lighthouse names, Ilana's list, and potentially Widmore's list is what matters in terms of candidacy.

Benny said...

... but also, if you don't like information coming from outside the show, Locke tells Claire Kate's name was crossed out in the cave (The Package) while Sawyer tells Kate herself while in the Hydra cages (The Candidate).

Kiki said...

Benny, you are 110% correct. I know all that and that is the conclusion I came to originally. But this is Lost. I'm not closing any doors for another 4.5 hours. ;)

Benny said...

@Kiki: The doors are certainly not closed. The idea is, we suspect the cave is the MiB's and 51.Austen is scratched there.

As far as we know, her name is not scratched in the lighthouse, but Widmore says she is not important to him!

There is no conclusion to take from that, just information!

Gracie said...

Haven't been on here for two days. And I have not yet read any addition comments. Ohio weather is bogging everyone down with dark, dreary, wet days. The kind of days where you just want to lay in the bed until the sun shines again.

But I wanted to ask a question and get it on here before Lost comes on, we get more information, and this blog switches over to Nikki's newest update. So here it comes.

Everyone, it seems has their own theory regarding Lost. Ok, so take your theory for just one second and set it aside.

Within the first ten or fifteen minutes of Lost: Season Six, the writers wanted us to know that this island is underwater. They showed it to us. Everything as we last saw it, just now under the sea.

Now can anyone pick back up their theory and apply it to an island that we know is underwater?

Anyone?

TO ANYONE IN OHIO: Child just called to let me know that Severe Weather alerts are preempting the shows tonight. The announcer just said that DWTS and Lost will be seen in their entirety between weather updates. RESET YOUR DVD'S!

Gracie said...

@Rainier: I suppose it's possible that the elephant was on my screen and not on the blog itself.

Luckily, my monitor and keyboard don't appear dented or subject to the excessive weight in any way. Both are running normally.

Could have possibly been operator error also. Given the operator, that's always a possibility. :)

Gracie said...

Dearest Fred: In all honesty, way too much of your very long and MOST informative post went over my head, out the window, and is currently traveling down the road.

But, regarding perceptions: In all walks of life different people see things differently. I may see a beautiful flower, whereas you are looking at a weed. Of I am seeing a 200-year-old house that is in need of rehabilitation, while you see a dump that needs to be torn down. So, yes, if this is what you are talking about, perception is everything to everyone. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

After having read your entire post to Spouse, he was wondering what you do for a living? Would you mind sharing? Is this knowledge part of what you do, or just stuff you've picked up from reading?

You have wowed us.

Fred said...

@Gracie:After having read your entire post to Spouse, he was wondering what you do for a living?

What I do now is nothing much. But I used to do anthropological genetics (basically, human population genetics). In a nut shell, anth. genetics usually involves interpreting past human migration and the origin of unique and familiar human dieases that have a genetic basis.

As to perception, you've got it right for the most part. Just that how you see something on the island isn't just in your mind, but becomes a part of the island reality. Think of it this way, for example: Suppose Ben sees the glass full, and it is. In the next scene, Locke sees it nearly empty, and it is. Since there is no single objective point of view (there is no God deciding the reality between these 2 possible views of the glass of water), then the glass is BOTH full and nearly empty. This is why sometimes on LOST we see the same scene from a different point of view, but things in the background are different. The frames in the old woman's house when Miles goes up the stairs as when he comes down the stairs, is one instance.

The philosopher George Berkley argued we need to impose God into the world to allow things not to disappear--if no one is watching, not only doesn't a tree falling in the forest not make a sound, there isn't a tree. LOST postulates Berkley's worst nightmare, a world in which there is no God. Hence everything depends on who is watching; existence itself is dependent on there being a watcher. (Could that be Jacob?).

A similar idea lies behind quantum mechanics. Without an observer, we don't know the spin or direction of an atomic particle. Science fiction writers (and some physicists) have applyed this above the atomic scale, so that the world would become a fuzzy white mass. It still exists, but hasn't resolved itself into any single reality. What might be happening on the island is that if an observer expects to see something, or even imagines it, it comes about. Remember Locke telling Walt to imagine the knife striking the target. (There was an orignal Star Trek episode where the crew landed on a planet where what they imagined was manufactured--usually with dire consequences).

Nope, don't have the level of mathematics needed to understand problems of quantum entanglement. But, hey, neither do the writers of LOST, and they're doing a great job on the story. So none of us need to be too involved in the science bit. Afterall, if it were too complicated then no one would watch the show. The solution to the island has to be relatively simple so every viewer understands, much like Faraday's time travel illustration using an LP. My expectation is I'm probably wrong, but it wuld be so cool if something like Schrodinger's Box was what was going on.

The Rush Blog said...

OK, I know that technically, Jack was right and Sawyer was wrong and by Sawyer pulling the wires when he did, without consulting anyone, at least four people died. BUT... considering the last time Jack gave a big speech and was SO sure that he was right, Juliet died as a result, you can’t blame Sawyer for doing his own thing in this scene.


Jack is not completely responsible for Juliet's death. She bears most of the responsibility. And the plan to detonate the bomb came from Daniel Faraday, not Jack. Sawyer knew this. But in his mind, he decided to place most or all of the blame for Juliet's death on Jack's shoulders. Why? I don't know. Perhaps he needed a convenient scapegoat. Then Sawyer always needed a convenient scapegoat, when he suffers a loss. It's one of his worse traits. And this penchant to blame Jack for Juliet's death led him to pull the wires that eventually led to Sun, Jin and Sayid's death.

Sawyer doesn't have an excuse.

RosieP said...

OK, I know that technically, Jack was right and Sawyer was wrong and by Sawyer pulling the wires when he did, without consulting anyone, at least four people died. BUT... considering the last time Jack gave a big speech and was SO sure that he was right, Juliet died as a result, you can’t blame Sawyer for doing his own thing in this scene.



Yes I can. I'm sorry, but I believe Sawyer had allowed his old resentment toward Jack and his unwillingness to stop blaming the latter for Juliet's death to pull those wires.

It's amazing that Sawyer quickly believed the MIB's revelation about the candidates without any real evidence or confirmation, yet refused to consider Jack's theory about the MIB and the bomb. It says a lot about Sawyer and his issues about Jack.

RosieP said...

OK, I know that technically, Jack was right and Sawyer was wrong and by Sawyer pulling the wires when he did, without consulting anyone, at least four people died. BUT... considering the last time Jack gave a big speech and was SO sure that he was right, Juliet died as a result, you can’t blame Sawyer for doing his own thing in this scene.


I'm sorry, but I can. Juliet was mainly to blame for her death. Jack, Sawyer, and the Dharma Initiative all played a part in her death, but most of the blame lies with her and her insecurities regarding Sawyer's feelings about Kate. Sawyer knew what Juliet had done in the Season 6 premiere, but he decided to place all of the blame on Jack . . . publicly. And I never understood why he accepted the MIB's revelation about the candidates situation without any proof, but could not trust Jack . . . despite knowing that Juliet was responsible for her death.

So . . . I won't let Sawyer off the hook. Sorry.

Liz's Journal said...

OK, I know that technically, Jack was right and Sawyer was wrong and by Sawyer pulling the wires when he did, without consulting anyone, at least four people died. BUT... considering the last time Jack gave a big speech and was SO sure that he was right, Juliet died as a result, you can’t blame Sawyer for doing his own thing in this scene.


I find this hard to accept. You're giving Sawyer an out for making one of the most stupid mistakes of his life . . . and still blaming it on Jack? Really?

Too many people had a hand in Juliet's death for me to solely blame Jack. But the ones really responsible for Jin, Sun and Sayid's deaths? I place it on the MIB and Sawyer.

«Oldest ‹Older   401 – 477 of 477   Newer› Newest»