“It takes a lot of guts to walk up to a stranger and tell him you know him from some bizarro alternate universe.”
Hugo-centric, Mr. Cluck’s, the return of Libby, the end of Ilana AND the Black Rock... and the answer to what those friggin’ whispers are. Not one of the episodes that had me floating in its epicness, but still awesome. I loved it.
So the BIG reveal of the episode was that the whispers are actually the ghosts of people who are stuck on the island and are unable to move on to Heaven because of something they did. Which means... THE ISLAND IS A PURGATORY. Not for those on the plane, but it’s a purgatory nonetheless. So big kudos to everyone who ever thought at any time that the purgatory idea was a good one, and yet those who argued the survivors aren’t actually in purgatory were correct, too. I’m sure a lot of fans will complain that they hate this explanation because it seemed so obvious and that we’d figured it out long ago, but... isn’t that why we’re doing all of this speculating? I was happy with that one. And it was interesting that Michael – perhaps the only person Hurley has ever hated on the island – is the one to appear to him, and when Hurley finds out that he’s basically doing time... for eternity... he actually feels sorry for the guy. I love you, Hurley.
Just as Daniel and Charlie knew the other world existed the moment they saw Charlotte and Claire respectively, and Desmond saw the other universe when he touched Penny’s hand, Hurley sees it when he locks lips with Libby. I posted something last night about how so much of Lost comes down to love, but I also believe that entwined with the notion of love is the idea of connection, as I said in that post. Connections are so vital to Lost – the connections people had before they go on the plane; connections to each other on the island that they created there; connections that they failed to actually make because they didn’t talk to one another; connections that were lost when the groups split up – and it’s when these four men have a real, definite connection to the other person that they’re able to break through.
Highlights:
• Pierre Chang is still a speaker, but he’s introducing philanthropists rather than trying to confuse viewers of Dharma videos.
• During the video presentation about Hugo, seeing the bizarrely-located Mr. Cluck’s restaurants next to the Himalayas and Pyramids made me laugh out loud. Haha!!
• In the screen still where Hugo is wearing the t-shirt that says "Humane" on it, Jorge Garcia is holding Nunu, his real-life dog and the star of his blog.
• The T-Rex statue. LOL!!
• “She will love you. And if she doesn’t... WE WILL FIND SOMEONE WHO DOES.” Smack! Hahaha!! Everyone talks about spinoffs they’d love to see... I’d just love to see the Hurley and Carmen show.
• Hurley talking to Libby at her grave again. We’ve seen this a couple of times and it’s always sad and lovely.
• LIBBY!!!!!
• OMGWTF ILANA BLEW UP??!! I couldn’t believe when this happened... it was as shocking (and less funny) as when it happened to Arzt. But why did she make the dumbass move of just tossing her bag on the ground? The women seemed to have healed from severe facial burns when she was in the hospital and now she does this? She just seemed smarter than that. I was surprised... but I’m hoping the final episode gives us the background of Jacob and that she’ll factor into that somehow. I don’t think this is the last we’ll see of her.
• Neal Schweiber from Freaks and Geeks works at Mr. Cluck’s now!!
• Ah. Desmond. How I love that you’re back and a regular on the show again.
• Desmond to Hugo: “That is a LOT of chicken.”
• “All women are a little bit crazy, bruthah.” Haha!
• “How do you break the ice with the smoke monster?”
• “Clearly she was well enough for a... fajita field trip.”
• I love when Alpert asks if anyone wants to join him so he can do something totally insane and counter-productive to what everyone else wants, and Ben is the first person to stand up and join him. Ha!
• The look on Jack’s face when he finally sees John Locke. I have been waiting for that moment ALL SEASON!!
• Ben Linus going all To Catch a Predator on Desmond. HIGH-larious!!!
• OMGWTF did Desmond just run over John Locke with a frickin’ CAR?!
Answers:
• The whispers are the dead people whose ghosts are stuck on the island because of bad things they did.
The Numbers:
Desmond’s chicken is meal order 42. Ilana grabbed 4 sticks of dynamite.
Did You Notice?:
• Pierre Chang mentions the museum, and if you think back to “Recon,” Miles had mentioned to Sawyer that his father worked at the museum. So Chang is still his father in this reality... once again begging the question, why is Miles’ last name Straume?
• Speaking of which, now Miles, Charlotte, and Daniel are all connected to the museum. Will it actually play a role in anything in this sideways world? Will we have an episode where we actually see this museum? Will there be any ancient relics of anything like, oh, I don’t know, a Tawaret statue?
• During the video presentation, you could see the Mr. Cluck’s chicken mascot over and over again. This reminded me of the opening of this episode’s prequel, “Everybody Hates Hugo,” which opened with a dream sequence of English-speaking Jin standing next to a man in the chicken suit who said, “Have a cluckity cluck cluck day.”
• I was a little disappointed to not see Carmen puffed up like a peacock at the kudos her son was getting. In our universe she would have been standing on her chair cheering and yelling, “More applause for my ’Ugo!!”
• The blind date that Carmen is sending Hugo on is with Rosalita... in the other world, he was in Santa Rosa.
• Looks like in every reality, Senator Robert Kelly is going to be a doctor at Santa Rosa. Nice to see some consistencies over here.
• Again, Libby – someone who is dead in the other universe – can see through to the other side, just like Daniel and Charlie.
• Smokey is becoming more and more like Locke every day. His “oh, this old piece of wood? Why... I’m just a-gonna whittle this baby until it speaks to me and tells me if I need to make a spear or a tiny wooden ornament of an old lady in a rocking chair that I can put on my mantle” was something Locke would have said.
• Empty Sayid wears his hair quite distinctively pushed off to one side all of the time.
• Despite Jack having the fitting last name, Desmond seems to have become the shepherd for the other side, helping people see this timeline and realize they’re in the wrong one.
• With the end of the Black Rock, Crazy Arms Richard returns. I can understand why he’s upset, though... not only did he remove their greatest chance at getting rid of the plane, but the Black Rock was the last place where he physically saw Isabella, and it probably holds a lot of resonance for him.
• In the doctor’s office, he has the exact same picture of the island that we saw in “Everybody Hates Hugo.”
• In the rec room, there’s a chalkboard and on it someone has drawn an island with a shark in the water, and a turtle, fish, a giant alligator hovering over it, and what looks like the silhouette of a swan in the water (for the Swan station? Where Libby died, perhaps?) In the corner of the picture there is what appears to be a baby buggy with a butterfly floating out of it. Butterflies in mental hospitals seem to be a mainstay no matter what reality you’re in. Perhaps encouraging patients to see the metamorphosis they could undergo with treatment?
• One of the inmates was playing Connect Four, which Hugo played obsessively when he was at Santa Rosa.
• Oh no!! The great team of Miles and Hurley have been split up for good! Say it ain’t so...
• Jack says maybe he’s supposed to let go... this stems all the way back to the beginning of season 3 when he heard Christian’s voice over the intercom of the aquarium cage he was being held in and Christian was saying, “Let it go, Jack.” But interestingly, last season in the DI Jack seemed content to let other people run the show and tell him what to do, as if he was relieved to let someone else take over.
• So... if the whispers happen and the dead person appears (just like Michael standing nearby when they heard them) does that mean Harper, Goodwin’s wife who appeared to Juliet in the jungle in the rain right after the whispers... is dead? What terrible thing did she do to get stuck there? Is she the one who told Ben about the affair between Goodwin and Juliet that led to Goodwin’s death?
• In the sideways world, Hurley remembers the blanket. :::sniff:::
• I thought for a second that the well where Smokey takes Desmond was the one with the FDW, but it clearly wasn’t.
• Just before Smokey pushes Desmond down the well (deep breaths, Nikki, DEEP BREATHS) Desmond asks him what the point of being afraid is, and you see Smokey begin to open his mouth and then close it, as if he’s stumped.
• I do not believe that Desmond is dead. I am like Rose and her faith in Bernard. He is fine. He is fine. I heard water when Smokey dropped the torch. He’ll be just fine. I mean... you can high-dive into five inches of water without anything bad happening to you. Right? Am I right?!
• When Smokey returns to the camp and tells everyone that they don’t need to worry about Desmond anymore, you can hear the Locke motif in the music... something we haven’t heard used with Smokey yet, I don’t think. AGAIN a suggestion that he’s actually Locke again.
• Sun coming through the jungle and scanning every person in that camp for Jin’s face was heartbreaking...
• I think I said this a few episodes ago but I’ve noticed that Hurley is never called Hurley in the sideways world, and I wonder if we’ll ever find out what that nickname refers to in this world?
So Many Questions...
• Did anyone know what that Russian book was that Hurley picked up? I wrote down the lettering and tried it through a translator, and I think I wrote it down wrong because all but one word was a jumble, and the one that wasn’t was “law.” Could it have been the paperback Russian edition of the Book of Law? (Har.)
• Who was the other boy that Smokey saw in the jungle with Des? It’s interesting that both Sawyer and Desmond have also seen the boys with him. Could THAT one be the Man in Black when he was a kid, and the blonde one was Jacob? Or vice versa? Smokey tried to chase down the blonde one, but just waved this one off with a dismissive flick of his hand, which was interesting.
• How did Hurley know immediately that those were ashes in Ilana’s pouch? He seems to know whatever is in there is important, when it probably looked just like the sand to him.
• Does Desmond get it wrong when he says Smokey is John Locke... or is it not a coincidence that he’s seeming more and more like John? Could the John inside of him be coming through and controlling Smokey more than the evil that’s inside him?
• Richard, testing Hugo, tells him that a while ago Jacob told him what the island was, so ask him. So why didn’t Jack or ANYONE jump up and say, “Oh really?? Then WTF is this island??!!”
• Michael tells Hurley not to get himself killed in response to Hurley asking if there’s anything he can do for him. It seems like a formality for him to say that, but maybe there was something more to it: maybe he really DOES need Hurley and the gang to stay alive and if they can, they might help those ghosts trapped on the island to finally move on.
• So why did Desmond hit Locke with a car? On the rewatch I’ve noticed just how much Smokey seems like Locke, and now I’m wondering... is it possible that the Man in Black was able to switch places with alterna-universe Locke? Could it be that Locke is actually the man we see on the island, and Smokey is the one who looks like Locke in the sideways world? Was Desmond trying to eradicate Smokey? OR... is poor Locke doomed in every reality to bring people together based on his demise? Does Desmond think that somehow he will round up the troops he needs if he causes some major rift in things like this?
Me tomorrow:
I’ve joined Facebook! Come and find me. I am here. :)
Tomorrow listen in to Marshall and Forbes on The Ocean 98.5 in Victoria, BC at 6 a.m. local time, 9 a.m. EST. Go here and click on the Listen Now button if you’re out of the listening area.
And tomorrow at noon I will once again be participating in the Globe and Mail Lost chat from noon to 1pm EST. Go here to ask questions and comment. See you there!
And finally, listen to KEX 1190 at 6:20 p.m. PST, 9:20 p.m. EST where I’ll be on the Mark & Dave show (and they’re big Lost fans so it’s always fun). Go here and click the Listen Now button.
Next week: (Get a load of the creepy music from the Gene Wilder Charlie and the Chocolate Factory... did anyone else ever have nightmares from that movie?!)
348 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 348 of 348@ JS - I like your theory. And maybe if the Original Timeline's dead "wake up" in the AU and are the first to be aware of both universes (Charlie, Faraday, Libby), then perhaps the AU's dead will "wake up" in the Original Timeline and be aware of the "AU". Not sure how this applies to Locke since he's sort of dead but his personality lives on in the MIB...
@ Humanebean - yeah, the Orchid well looked a lot better :)
@ Teebore - We may get that Libby tidbit yet. Now that both AU Hurley and AU Libby are together and remembering their "other" lives, there's no reason he couldn't ask her "hey, what was up with that?" -- though hopefully scripted in a more subtle way, of course ;)
@Sagcious Penguin: there's no reason he couldn't ask her "hey, what was up with that?" -- though hopefully scripted in a more subtle way, of course ;)
Frankly, at this point, I think I'd be happy even with just the blunt question/answer. :)
Ben chose to go with Richard because he has no intention of leaving the island again. And he doesn't care about anyone else.
Hurley leaving the museum, "Maybe I'll give to the Human Fund next."
Maybe he'll celebrate Festivus too.
I think Desomond hit Locke with the car cause Locke threw Des in the well. I told my daughter "I hope he doesn't throw him down the well." and then he did and I screamed and told my daughter "Nikki is going to be so mad".
In the previews it looks like Sayid is standing at the well.
Can't wait till next week.
I wonder if Miles Straume's last name is actually Traum. Traum being German for dream
Just came from the Globe and Mail talk about Lost, and know one ever really got into how quick to the draw Des was when asked what his son's name was and then saying Charlie. But Charlie has not been born in the AU. I think that means something.
@Douglas - yes, I mentioned that {Desmond replies to Ben with Charlie's name withouth hesitation} in one of my posts last night. That is why I think he has either absorbed all of island Demond's consciousness, or that they have somehow swaped, which would explain current Island Desmond's level of non-chalance.
@Nikki, Sonshine & JS - you are too kind. Occasionally, in the process of amusing myself, I am startled to find that others are Collaterally Amused. My humble thanks!
@Teebore - yes, I do watch in HD - and the problem was that the well was created in NO-D. I'm pretty sure I played that well in a 2nd grade production of "The Pilgrims Land On Plymouth Rock". *hint* I did not play a Pilgrim.
@Douglas - I viewed Desmond coming up with "Charlie" so quickly in the same vein as Cle-ah blurting out "Aaron" in the hospital. It could have been a direct result of the timeline-bleedthrough or a more spontaneous creation, hard to tell
Random thoughts as I'm reading the posts:
As soon as I saw that Ilana had dynamite in that bag, I had a feeling she might blow up. Then, as she kept jamming water bottles in there, I KNEW she was gonna blow...any second now...BLAM!! Bye-bye, Ilana.
Thanks, whoever mentioned that the preview music was from Willie Wonka. I thought I recognized the voice, but couldn't place it. Gene Wilder! Creepy, creepy music...a lot like the lullaby they used at the end of the Smokey massacre.
A couple of other observations about the preview footage: 1) Obviously Des survived the fall into the well, but...will he survive next week? Cuz the last thing shown is Sayid shooting a gun, seemingly down into the well. 2) I watched the preview in stop-motion on my DVR...at one point it showed flashes of Locke's face on the left of the screen, then Claire on the right side, then Locke, then Claire, then Locke, then Claire again! WTH does THIS mean?? Are Locke & Claire like two sides of a coin? (Just a feeling I got from seeing this.)
SenexMacdonald said: "Desmond seeing the boy. That is interesting since the only other person to see him was Sawyer." >>BUT, was it the same boy? I didn't think so. Darker hair. Very mischievous expression as he turned to run off. Looked like a different boy, older too. Someone else said maybe one was Jacob, the other MIB as boys? Interesting theory. (Will we EVER learn MIB's NAME?)
Benny said: "@Nikki: I think Desmond hitting Locke was a way to make him see through. Charlie and Desmond were able to see through the first time by going through a near death experience." >>Okay, but hurling him through the air with his car? Isn't that just a bit HARSH? Again, an interesting theory, though.
Marebabe, when Ilana blew up, I was SO glad Hurley didn't say, "I've got bits of Ilana on me." I was sorta waiting for it, but relieved he didn't say it.
Blam said: "I rarely re-watch an episode in its entirety if at all. That's mostly due to (1) time and (B) only having a VCR, which is often needed to tape something else." >> Wow, that really sucks. I feel like I don't know how I lived until I got my DirecTV DVR...it has SO greatly enhanced my TV watching enjoyment! Blam (and other not-so-fortunate ones), you truly have my sympathy. And, as per your mention of GLEE, when I got home from my meeting last night around 9 PM, I watched: 1) Lost (of course!), 2) Glee, 3) American Idol, and then 4) Lost AGAIN. Of course, fast-forwarding through all commercials, thanks to the DVR. Yeah, I was up till about 1:30 AM watching all that!
to be cont'd...
One of the writers' key narrative methods is to represent MiB, his association with Locke and the island as a sort of "negative Jesus."
Points to consider:
Locke was told he was immaculately conceived (nope, he wasn't). Unlike Jesus who healed the lame, Locke himself was healed. Jesus had a destiny that had been prophesized in the OT; Locke felt he had a destiny, only to be murdered in a shabby motel.
Wine and water are reveresed in terms of purity on the island (Pearson Moore has a nice write up on this--Ab aeterno recap).
MiB can't cross (walk) on water. His body is missing (after the ressurection, Jesus' disciples found his body mssing). There was a ressurection of a dead man; Jesus called Lazarus out of the tomb. Jesus prophesied the destruction of the Temple; MiB destroyed the Temple. The MiB wants to return home off an island we know as purgatory to some; after his death, jesus went to Hell to releaase the souls, and following some time with his disciples ascended into Heaven (home).
Hurley was tempted by Dave to throw himself off the cliff; jesus was also tempted by Lucifer to throw himself off the cliff. Jesus fed the masses with bread and fish; Hurley fed the suvivors from the Swan hatch.
Now I'm not going to say that MiB is Jesus, or that LOST is like the film The Last Temptation of Christ. But the writers sure have utilized a sort of negative-Jesus story and embedded it into LOST.
If there was a hint in the Pilot, it may have come from Locke's description of backgammon as older than Jesus. The conflict between MiB and Jacob is likely older than even the Egyptians (though I did ponder the possibility it arose during the early Christian times--Jacob a disciple and MiB a Roman, perhaps Pilate). There is something archetypical about the way Desmond was pushed into the well. Did Jacob do something like this to the original MiB?
Finally, one last query. How do the Others speak Latin? Richard was no onlder then mid-nineteenth century. Jacob told him everyone before them was dead. So where did the choice of Latin as the language of the Others spring up. If Richard had led the Others, wouldn't it have been Spanish? (I am excluding Jacob taught them Latin, but Jacob spoke in English to Richard, so why wouldn't he continue in English)?
So Penny and Miles both appear to have different last names from their OT dads (Penny Milton and Miles Straume). I know Straume was crossed off the list in the Cave, did anyone notice the name Milton anywhere? I'm just curious
@JS: I cannot imagine what kind of conversation is going to happen. Now that they are all together, and Desmond is gone, and anyone else who has additional knowledge of the island is gone, how far can the candidates really negotiate with the monster?
I don't think a whole lot of negotiating will be going on! And I think the candidates are the candidates for a reason. I don't think they need anyone to lead them in how they deal with Smokey. They are who they are and in the end it is their decision on what to do -- kind of what Jacob said.
@Kiki - that's my question. What is it they are supposed to do, exactly? Keep MiB from leaving the island? How? Destroying the means of transportaion. OK, and then what?
That's why I think there is going to be some sort of battle -- this thing doesn't end until either MiB is contained/dead/otherwise nullified or until all the candidates are off the island, either because they have left or because they are dead.
I think MiB's next move is to try to get them killed (since he cannot do it himself) or to get them ALL off the island, or both, so they can never come back, if that is an issue. And the candidates main counter will be to survive, and to try to contain him.
OK -- not done on catching up on all the posts but I just remember the one moment I almost gasped in horror! Desmond took Flocke's hand after he cut the ropes! I was sitting there willing him to NOT TAKE HIS HAND!!!
so since I do itunes I just finished my first watch...loved this episode. Libby, Dr. Chang, Desmond taking a more active role.
Loved that Hurley and Libby finally had that beach date. Smokie...I know you will pay for throwing Desmond in the well although I was totally unsurprised when you did.
Just one nit....from all of us who actually work with people in wheelchairs...Lost prop department..wheelchair technology has improved since that horse and buggy contraption you poor have Terry O'Quinn pushing himself along in...can't ABC spring for something with at the very least, better wheels.
Anonymous said...
Gotta love the Springsteen references - meeting Rosalita at Spanish Johnny's. Also, did Hugo drop a Seinfeld reference, telling his mother they were doing the Human Fund next?
Yes -- the Huamn Fund! I forgot about that. hahahahah
So the whispers are the souls of people stuck on the island. Now I have to rewatch every episode with whispers. But why then did Ben tell Danielle (when he stole Alex) to run if she ever heard whispers in the jungle?
I think because this was Ben's MO -- keep 'em scared. And Ben might not even know what the whispers are himself. He has been learning things about the Island himself!
Jason said: "Also, it does seem a bit fitting: Locke throws Des down a well, Des runs over Locke. They're even!" >> Hey, I kinda thought that, too! Welcome to the blog, Jason!
Kotowski said: "A word of warning to the survivors - dynamite is very unstable!!!" >> Well, at least THAT dynamite is...was. That 140-yr-old, leaky, humidity-drenched stuff. (Guess we don't have to worry about that anymore...Hurley took care of the rest of it! Bye-bye, Black Rock.)
Benny said: "The credits are up and it's the same kid." >> Well, thanks, Benny, for that enlightening bit of info. ;-)
Kotowski said: "If you're curious, here's the poem:
There's no earthly way of knowing
Which direction they are going!
There's no knowing where they're rowing,
Or which way they river's flowing!
Not a speck of light is showing,
So the danger must be growing,
For the rowers keep on rowing,
And they're certainly not showing
Any signs that they are slowing..."
Wow!! Thanks for giving us these lyrics! No way of knowing where the writers are going, huh? Well, we sure can spend a lot of time trying to guess, anyway! (lol)
A few thoughts:
1) Desmond sitting in the car watching Hurley and Libby,brought back memories of Leonard Nimoy in The Simpsons. I was waiting for him to say 'my work here is done'
2) Anyone else think Desmond was waiting for Locke to push him down the well? Desmond + electromagnetic energy well= Alternative Reality Time Travelling Super Desmond
3) Maybe Ilana thought The Island needed her and she couldn't be harmed.
4) I think we will see the return of our Locke before the series is out
@ JS, wondering why we heard no whispers when Isabella appeared...don't the whispers apply only to those who died ON the island (someone correct me if I'm wrong), and are now in "purgatory" for something they did wrong? Isabella died off-island, and did nothing wrong, that we know of.
Then again, Michael didn't technically die on the island, but on the freighter. And Christian...did we hear whispers before his appearances? (Not recalling, offhand.)
MiB collecting the candidates to get off the island is a variation of Stephen King's Langoliers. In King's story, they fly through a hole in time and end up in an inter-temporal space where the langoliers are eating the past. They have to recreate how they flew into the hole to get out, but one has to pilot the plane, and he will disappear.
So MiB needs the candidates to recreate the plane ride. This will allow him to escape, but the world he is escaping to (say Alt LA X) cannot accomodate the candidiates (remember the same bunnies that Chang freaked about). So when they fly through the rift to Alt Time, the candidates will al disappear, but MiB will survive. What will that do to the original timeline? My best guess is without MiB on the island, it will simply collapse--Widmroe's warning that everything will cease.
Carrying further, if Desmond gets the Alt time people to remember memories form the island, perhaps they can communicate with the island Losties not to follow through on MiB's plan. That will be their sacrifice.
@ Donna S. said... : My thoughts exactly about the Isabella and purgatory connection. Also, why did Libby appear to Michael? She appeared twice, onece in the hospital and once on the ship. Is she also trapped like Michael on the island? And what about Christian? Is his body ressurected, or just his ghost? And he appears like Libby in multiple places on and off the island. Further, he can hold Aaron--so far we haven't had any idea a ghost can hold someone.
Personally, I think they've been a little bit iffy on this whole business of ghosts and purgatory. Cause then we have to decide on the kids we see, lately. I personally think they are manifestations of the island, and I'm not too sure we are even seeing ghosts, but further manifestations of the island. We still don't know what the island is, but lately the writers have been hinting at answering that question. Richard's saying, do you know where we are? before he took off in Ab aeterno. The key to understanding all this is what is the island?
I speak Russian. The red book that Hurley finds is by Fyodor Dostoyevsky. The book is called Записки из подполья. Which means, "Notes from underground."
Gracie said: "WAKE UP FOLKS. YOU'VE FORGOTTEN SOMETHING TRULY IMPORTANT!!
Has everyone completely forgotten what happens to people on this island when they finally get the problems of their lives resolved?"
And, to add to your list...we haven't seen Rose and Bernard ever again, since they settled down in their peaceful island seclusion.
Gracie...Daniel's connection to the museum: Dan told Des that he saw a beautiful redhead at the museum (eating chocolate). Who of course was Charlotte, who works with Miles' dad, at the museum.
JW said: "I was just thinking before the dark haired girl blew up, "You know, this show has been getting far too casual about dynamite." >> "dark haired girl"...lol, obvious newbie!
asiancolossus said: "Where was Jin??? I was totally expecting a reunion...he was MIA all episode."
Well, Jin is with Widmore's group, on the other island, of course. We didn't see any of them this episode. By now, Zoe has high-tailed it back to Widdy to tell him that their secret weapon, Desmond, has been kidnapped by the enemy!
P.S.: SLOWLY making my way thru all the comments! It's taking all day!
Nikki said: "You know, when she (Sun) first scanned them I thought, "Yes!" and then suddenly remembered he (Jin) wasn't there and said out loud "Oh BLOODY hell." I'm getting tired of it a bit, too. Just get them together already."
Regarding the Sun/Jin way-overdue reunion: Does anyone understand how it was that the people from 1977 were reunited from the people from 2007 (or was it 2004? the Ajira flight people?) with no particular problem? I remember worrying...how were the two groups ever going to meet up, when they were separated by 30 years? And then, viola! Together again! Well, except for Sun and Jin, of course.
Am I making any sense? Does this SHOW really make any sense? Hmmm...
Who is Kate's constant? Think it might be Sawyer. She was handcuffed by Edward Mars, so he ain't. She bumped into Jack (sorry Jaters) but that eliminates Jack as Kate's constant. And she helped Claire, so not her either. Only one she hasn't touched is Sawyer, and he's about to handcuff her. Likely a constant has to have been on the island, so memories of the island will associate the other person with them. Sawyer is a good bet.
But Jin isn't Sun's, neither is Sun a constant for Jin. Wierd! So much for true love. Sun's constant could be Michael (didn't mean to open that can of worms). But who would it be for Jin? It could be Michael again. Afterall, Jin wanted to risk his own life to go after Michael.
Which brings us to Sayid. If it ain't Nadia, then who? The only one I can think of is Rousseau or Ben. Ben did make Sayid, and vice-versa.
So far everyone's enlightened memories, except for Desmond, have been glorious. Hurley remembers Libby in technicolour fragments (uhm, kinda like flashes before your eyes). But so far none have gotten to the crux of their memories. Hurley didn't recall Libby's death. Charlie didn't recall sacrificing himself for Claire. There's a downside to these memories that have to still bleed through. When they do, Ms Eloise Widmore will be very displeased with Desmond.
TM Lawrence...LOL - your entire post at 10:29 AM !
Kiki said: "Regarding the island being Purgatory -- ok so Michael said it's where some people are stuck -- but this is Lost. The only place to get stuck is Purgatory?" (Spelling corrected...sorry, I'm anal)
Well, being that the Catholic concept of "purgatory" is where dead people go (to await judgment?) when they're not good enough to go to heaven (but not bad enough to go to hell?)...that definition kind of fits with how Michael described the whisper-people. So, it seems that's the word that Lost bloggers are going with, unless and until a better explanation comes to the fore.
I am relatively certain it was a different boy. The earlier one had very blonde hair (and it was curly)...seeming an allusion to Jacob. This one had straight dark hair...and he LAUGHED at FLocke's reaction. I also think that Flocke's reaction to him alludes to the fact that they are different boys.
I have some ideas about what the whispers might be, but it's too complicated for this space. I posted about it over at my blog: http://pop-culture-pundit.blogspot.com/ if you're interested. Tell me what you think!
Just got my blog on 6.12 up as well. Here's an excerpt for discussion here:
The Whispers:
So the Whispers are the voices of dead people "stuck on the Island." But, according to Michael, not everyone who dies on the Island is stuck there -- he says that he specifically is stuck there "because of what I did." So while we at least know that committing double homicide for a reason other than protecting the Island is considered wrong and punishable there, we're again left to wonder who's making the moral judgements on the Island -- Jacob? The Man in Black? The Island itself? Whoever it is, chances are the decision process is connected to the white and black stones that Jacob and the MIB exchange. Somewhere in the MIB's Cave or Jacob's Foot, there's probably a black stone for Michael, and the instant it was laid out, his spirit was doomed to join the collection of souls who walk the Island whispering about redemption boars, backward-speaking apparitions of Walt, warning about appearences of the Others and the Smoke Monster, and visitors' proximity to the Haunted Cabin. One has to wonder what all these dead folks' agenda(s) are. Are they out to help Island visitors? Are they out the help the Others? My guess would be that they're ultimately out to help the Island, that being the only way they can atone for sinning against it. Michael at least sure seems to have gotten it into his head that Hurley shouldn't lead anyone to blow up the Ajira plane or else "people are gonna die." How he knows this and what alternative he's hoping will happen, only the dead can say. ...And maybe the writers ;)
If you'd like to read more, it's at www.sagaciouspenguin.blogspot.com
Been busy and watching the Sens-Pens playoff game (Sens 3-1 with 12:00 left in second for the record) here are some quick reply to comments directed at me!
@Teebore: currently working on studying the different Christian appearances. When I looked at that one, it hit me in the face! Will get back on it.
@DonnaS: Harsh yes... but cool to watch though and shocking, you gotta admit!
We've figured it out! Okay, not everything. I was giving my sister the highlights of the conversation since she hasn't had time to jump on and (I'm sorry I don't know who said it) how someone had joked about how difficult the MiB was finding all of the candidates.
SO, we've decided that Jacob chose these particular people, not because they were special or because they had something in common or were "good" or "right", but because they were difficult and needy and had Super Issues. This way, when MiB killed him, he would have to fight against all of the differing factions and attitudes and problems with the candidates, therefore giving Jacob time to regenerate and grow back to adulthood. *brushes hands off* our work here is done :P
VW: claddess - A lady's maid, dealing particularly with the putting on of clothing
Agh! Blogger didn't publish my comment!
Anyway, I didn't get a chance to post a comment this morning, as I didn't have any time.
Everyone else has stated the same opinions as me on this episode.
I hope that Desmond isn't dead! I don't think he is, because he's going to defeat Not-Locke and become the new Jacob of the island. Either him or Jack.
OK, what is wrong with me? I'm actually thinking that Jack is half-decent this year. Am I crazy?
Speaking of Jack, I loved his expression when he and Not-Locke met for the first time since they were fighting in the hospital room and Jack basically told Locke that he wasn't a special guy.
And Ma Reyes. I think that she and Hurley should have a spin-off along with Ben and Locke.
Oh my . . . weird at the promo featuring that creepy Willie Wonka . . . music. Nightmares anyone?
Hopefully this will work this time!
@me re: the Desmond or Jack beating Not-Locke and becoming the new Jacob: this is JUST a theory. I'm not a spoiler person. At ALL.
Teebore, I buy the Libby backstory except that Libby gave Desmond the boat to sail to the island.
Which implied she was somehow aligned with Widmore. I don't remember what she was supposed to be doing in Australia.
@KIm-I thought Des hit lock with the car to give him sight into the alt island world, like Charlie submerging Des' car. Which will send Locke off to hospital to be repaired by Dr. Shepard.
Agreed. I came on to say just that, and found that you've already summed it up perfectly:)
Probably already posted but desmond hit locke with car to get 2 birds with 1 stone, who'll be mending him at the hospital? And i'm sure jack will pull off that miracle and get Locke walking again! This season is awesome, every Week ups the ante, top marks to Darlton and co
@ Nikki : So why didn’t Jack or ANYONE jump up and say, “Oh really?? Then WTF is this island??!!”
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!
You know how you get to thinking about some random element of LOST and one thought leads to another ... and suddenly you find yourself face to face with a complete mystery that hasn't even occurred to you for awhile? No? Just me? HA! You KNOW you know what I'm talkin' about.
Sooooo, there I am pondering the recording of the numbers that we heard when Ajira Flight 316 landed on Hydra Island, puzzling over whether or not that was Hurley's voice ...when suddenly it hits me - we still have NO CLUE what the heck took place on the Island during the three years that the Oceanic 6 were back home and Sawyer et al were playing house with the Dharma Initiative.
What happened from early 2005-late 2007/early 2008 when Ajira 316 landed? We saw the Island disappear, at least from the perspective of the helicopter ... and the on-Island gang started time-flashing. What about Richard and his merry band? What about Jacob and MIB? Did the Others sent to the temple by Ben just spend a quiet three years in the hot tub? Did the Book Club carry on without Juliet? Did Smokey roam the jungle, scaring the boar to keep in shape?
Most importantly ... how did the recording of the numbers start playing again? Who fired it up? Who finished the runway? Was Dogen the leader? Yes, folks, it's this sort of thing that keeps me up nights, ruminating. And ... now that time is running short and there are so many important story lines to resolve ... will we ever find out?
In regards to Locke, I don't know if this has been said but in the alternate universe he has the woman he loves. Maybe he needed an extreme accident to jog his mind and get him thinking about the island and Jacob.
I had wondered since last week how Des was going to convince Locke when it seems as if he's happy and with Helen, and maybe running him over is how to do it. And maybe in the hospital he'll meet Jack and they'll have a moment of connection.
It also would answer a question that I had as to who Kate would connect with more? Jack or Sawyer, but if Jack's connection is with Locke then maybe it's destined to be Kate and Sawyer forever lol.
@SenexMacdonald: Jack is almost constantly asking Hurley who he is talking to now... LOL
I noticed this too and rationalized this as, "Are you talking to my dad yet?"
Also, with Ilana's "departure": I was literally having a one-sided conversation with the TV during this scene, as follows: "Umm... Ilana, I know you're like Jacob's go-to gal and all, but I don't think you should be handling the dynamite like that. See, there was this guy a couple of years bac-" :KA-BOOM: "...:sigh: nevermind."
@Nikki: I totally thought about "To Catch A Predator" when Ben was at Desmond's car. "Hi, I'm Ben Linus from Dateline NBC, could you tell me why you're staring at the children from your car?"
So many comments already and I've barely caught up!
WV: crudl - poorly formed pastry
Desmond in two realities reminded me of "Click" the movie when Adam Sandler fastforwared, the more he did the more absent he was.... Maybe we have on the island a "fastforward" Desmond and in the sideways real Desmond waking up Candidates!
Okay, now I'm convinced. Sort of. The following is far-fetched and crazy, but so much of Lost is about convergence I feel like I just had my own "what reality am I in?" moment myself.
Chills went up one side of my spine when the Shout said, "I think we will see the return of our Locke before the series is out."
Somehow I do, too. Earlier in this thread I posted about how I thought the AU is really Opposite Universe (OU) so, so if Locke dies there in OU (after the auto crash) he will come back to life on the Island.
I started idly fantasizing about how the episode might play out. Maybe in OU, Jack tries to save Locke's life in the hospital but fails to fix him, and OU Locke dramatically dies. And then in true dramatic Lost fashion, with dramatic whoosh music playing in the background, the scene shifts to the island, and we see a hand come out of the dirt and Locke crawling out of his grave. (The island's not done with him yet - he still has work to do, to kill off Flocke, maybe).
Just as I was savoring my silly probably ludicrous fantasy of the dramatic end-of-episode image of Locke climbing up out of the island gravesite dirt, I started to read Anonymous's recent post above, where he reminded us that the book in this episode was called "Notes from underground."
And then the chills ran down the other side of my spine.
WV: Snish: "She's a snish, that one" (a cold fish. As in snow? on a fish?)
@Donna: He's [Desmond's} not even gonna DIE...by electromagnetism, or by getting dropped down a well on his noggin!...He's the COURSE-CORRECTOR, and nothing can stop him!!
I think he is going to die...nobody else seems to want to touch this one, but I think the reason we saw the "Not Penny's Boat" scene again was to re-illustrate Charlie's sacrifice on behalf of Claire and Aaron, and that Des is going to have to make the same sacrifice for Penny & Charlie.
Wow. Been traveling and unable to access the net all day; I come back and there are almost 200 comments! I have a LOT to say, so I'll break it into a couple of chunks:
@asiancolossus: I'm not quite sure I believe Hurley, he's turned into the old Locke, I was reminded of Locke blowing up the sub in front of Jack the same way Hurley blew up the Black Rock.
But for an entirely different reason. Locke blew up the sub to keep people from being able to leave the island; Hurley seems to be trying to protect the plane so that the will have the option of leaving (though I'm not sure that plane is ever getting off the ground again!)
I hope they don't turn the island into the figment of someone's crazy imagination at the end of it all.
That would be a total cheat, and darlton have said that they will not do something like that.
VW: emistu - How the guy felt when you had been gone for a while
@Nikki I LOVE how we're all trying to come up with humane explanations for why Desmond would have mown down a guy in a wheelchair.
Count me out of that one...I think Desmond is seeing something else entirely where Locke is concerned. I think he has more knowledge about the two timeline (I think he retains his knowledge when he jumps between them)than anyone else, except maybe Eloise), and I think he knows what's up with Locke.
@Black and Purple: I had a thought on the reason why Desmond hit Locke. If someone dies in the alternate world, they have to stay on the Island. If they die on the island, they get to stay in the alternate reality.
I think that, as things go in quantum mechanics, at some point these two divergent threads are going to collapse and only one will survive. They might to a variation on that which combines elements of both, but I think at the end, only one timeline will remain.
@Gillian Whitfield: I hope that Desmond isn't dead! I don't think he is, because he's going to defeat Not-Locke and become the new Jacob of the island. Either him or Jack.
I'm telling you, they are both going to end up dead. Des because he has to make some kind of "sacrifice" so that Penny, Charlie, and everyone else in the OT does not go "poof"; Jack because he has finally resolved his issues. (And this isn't a spoiler either, just a different take on things.)
@JenniferS.: And Nikki, I don't think he's [Desmond's] dead.
I don't necessarily think he is dead either - yet.
@rad: I think Desi is not afraid because he's already seen his own death, he knows it's not caused by being pushed into a well or even by Flocke (I think he knows who Locke really is but he's just casting some doubt in the man). I think has already seen the event that are unfolding before him so he know exactly what's supposed to happen which gives him the quite confidence that the ladies love so much. He's not afraid because he has already seen and has to come to terms with what's about to happen.
This could also be true. I like it better than my sinking feeling about Des. But I think he knows he is going to die, understands the necessity, and just, as he says, sees no point in being afraid, brutha.
@TM Lawrence: Sawyer, dude, I know the Milennium Falcon is idling out in a jungle clearing somewhere or tied up to a dock under Widmorian goon guard, but get your groove on, conman dude.
It might be a little easier for him if he could manage to get together with Chewie.
@ Donna S.: I remember worrying...how were the two groups ever going to meet up, when they were separated by 30 years? And then, viola! Together again! Well, except for Sun and Jin, of course.
Interesting point. And since the two who cannot get together are Kwon, maybe we should be taking something away from the lack of a reunion to date.
@Fred: Which brings us to Sayid. If it ain't Nadia, then who? The only one I can think of is Rousseau or Ben. Ben did make Sayid, and vice-versa.
Could Sayid's constant be Shannon?
VW: gamods - what I'm betting on this week in Reno.
VW#2: austskee - well, they really don't know how to ski in Australia, do they?
That was supposed to say that there were almost 250 comments.
VW: currep - fix what's ailin' that congressman!
@Rainier: I was thinking of Shannon too for Sayid. But it has to be someone on the island, AND in LA X. We saw on the Oceanic airline that Shannon remained in Australia. My expectation is that if we see Shannon again, it will be as a ghost on the island.
@ Rainier: I think he has more knowledge about the two timeline (I think he retains his knowledge when he jumps between them)than anyone else, except maybe Eloise), and I think he knows what's up with Locke
I think Desmond only has memories, that he is not travelling back and forth between LA X and island. If he were, he'd not be so complacent about meeting MiB/Locke on the island. The island Desmond may have flashes of the future, so he knows where he is going (the usual line--he's right where he wants to be). Meanwhile, LA X Desmond is acting despicably, running down an individual. Really!! Come on!! It doesn't just border on the ethically questionable, it is criminally unacceptable behaviour. And if that's all for the island, well it's like Michael shooting Libby and Ana Lucia for Walt. no one was accepting of that. And here we are trying to analyze Desmond's behaviour away by reinterpreting it in terms of plot or narrative. I felt disgusted when Desmond ran over Locke, and I lost all sympathy for Jacob and the island if their behind Desmond's actions.
I know this has been touched on, but what would make Jin & Sun see the island world?
They are already in love with each other or something like it and Sun has had a near death experience being shot.
Rather than needing a constant, if we go back to the idea of it being love that makes the difference, wouldn't it be great if realising his daughter has been shot and he has possibly lost a grandchild, Mr Paik comes rushing over from Korea, and begs for forgiveness and cries etc and that makes Sun feel enough love to see some of the memories of the island?
Can't think of anything for Jin though.
Still hoping for Juliet in the AU.
@Wanda: Teebore, I buy the Libby backstory except that Libby gave Desmond the boat to sail to the island.
Which implied she was somehow aligned with Widmore. I don't remember what she was supposed to be doing in Australia.
I think Darlton said that while giving Desmond the boat implied a connection to Widmore, it was intended to be just another one of those crazy Lost coincidences: Libby's husband dies, she goes crazy with grief, gets better, and gets rid of her husbands stuff, including his boat. And Desmond happens to be the person who gets the boat.
This is all "podcast canon" of course, so who knows?
I also don't remember why Libby was in Australia, or if we ever even learned that.
Donna S. said...
TM Lawrence...LOL - your entire post at 10:29 AM !
Kiki said: "Regarding the island being Purgatory -- ok so Michael said it's where some people are stuck -- but this is Lost. The only place to get stuck is Purgatory?" (Spelling corrected...sorry, I'm anal)
Thank you!! It looks so wrong now -- I'm awful at spelling and not Catholic, so there are my two best excuses!!
I do think the term fits well, since this is Lost I was just wondering if there could be some other kind of twist. But maybe this time it is what it is!
vw - warmani - what the fashionable wear to an armed conflict.
Rainier said...
@Donna: He's [Desmond's} not even gonna DIE...by electromagnetism, or by getting dropped down a well on his noggin!...He's the COURSE-CORRECTOR, and nothing can stop him!!
I think he is going to die...nobody else seems to want to touch this one, but I think the reason we saw the "Not Penny's Boat" scene again was to re-illustrate Charlie's sacrifice on behalf of Claire and Aaron, and that Des is going to have to make the same sacrifice for Penny & Charlie.
Interesting!! But how I hope you are wrong!
@Rad and Ranier: Desmond is not afraid to die because he has already seen his own death? That’s like Billy Pilgrim in “Slaughterhouse Five”. That’s probably the real reason that book has been referenced on LOST before. And way back then, did anyone theorize that the endgame of LOST would have to do with a character who is not afraid of anything because he has already seen his own death? Of course not! This is all so amazing.
@marebabe- I thought I had posted something just before lunch on slughterhouse 5- but I didn't finish. But I was thinking Desmond was more like the aliens that could see all time. But yes Des is like Billy in that once he saw he ws going to die, he wasnt' afraid of dying anymore.
@Marebabe: Desmond is not afraid to die because he has already seen his own death? That’s like Billy Pilgrim in “Slaughterhouse Five”. That’s probably the real reason that book has been referenced on LOST before.
Excellent! That connection had not occurred to me (though it should have; I'm a huge fan of Vonnegut) And it makes sense, and might help to tie these elements - fate, free will, love, sacrifice, and death - together.
But I also hope that I am completely off base about this. I do not want Desmond to die; I especially don't want to see what that would do to Penny and little Charlie.
@Rainier & Fred: ...I think Desmond is seeing something else entirely where Locke is concerned. ...and, I think he knows what's up with Locke.
I just watched this episode again, and I was struck by Desmond’s determination in running down Locke. I wonder if Desmond is acting in the same way that Sayid did when he shot Young Ben, that killing that person could prevent the evil he would later be responsible for.
Word Verf: stsme : What the Pope does when he canonizes me.
Charles Widmore is Scrooge McDuck. Not the one that sits on his pile of gold but the one who hunts for lost treasures and is the uber-capitalist of Ayn Rand's fantasies... Discuss... (mostly just to adrenalize a flagging commentary aka bear-poking)
On a more germane note, the unfolding of Libby and Hugo's romance has been one of the show's greatest potential hold cards and we need more than the beach blanket bingo and a affirmational peck to sell it. She was stalking him with crazy, drugged eyes in the asylum the first go-round when she was unquestionably not there on a daypass, and she did NOT have her toes stepped upon by him on the plane based on her seating assignment. I too want nothing but a deservedly solid love connection for Mr. Reyes, but Libby's motives now are as suspect as her askew glances were at the hatch laundry or the edge of the cliff (go rewatch them if you don't know what I mean).
Both Desmond and Libby were, after all, almost doctors... (WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?)
@Terri: I know this has been touched on, but what would make Jin & Sun see the island world?
Good question! Since their marriage was somewhat strained in the Island Universe, it's possible it may be harder for them to be eachother's "link", or "constant" if you will.
The only thing that I can think of is their child, Ji Yeon. How could that be if Jin hasn't even seen his daughter? AHHHH... what if Widmore's play to bring Jin to his base of operations was simply to show him the images of Ji Yeon on Sun's camera to create that link?!
Also, I am VERY hopeful for a Juliet cameo as well!
WV: refyit - (verb) what to do when Hurley's bucket of Mr. Cluck's isn't cooked properly
TM Lawrence said:
"Charles Widmore is Scrooge McDuck. Not the one that sits on his pile of gold but the one who hunts for lost treasures and is the uber-capitalist of Ayn Rand's fantasies... Discuss"
LOL!! This guy cracks me up!
I just read that Darlton said that Ben will have a very unlikely romance and that we won't see it coming. I think it will be with Juliet in the AU. He wanted her badly on the island - maybe he'll get her now? I would think it would be Anne...but then that wouldn't be that unlikely.
@Joan Crawford: I'd lay money on Alex's mom: Wouldn't we all love a happy ending for ol'wildhair Rousseau? Wouldn't Ben, her longtime island nemesis and voleur d'enfant be parfait reconciliation? No?
@Joan Craawford: And pretty sure based on the hat collection in Little David's home, that Jack got Juliet (and lost her)
@TM- And pretty sure based on the hat collection in Little David's home, that Jack got Juliet (and lost her)
Oooh, this is very interesting! I hadn't noticed a hat collection. What kind of hats were they? Why did they lead you to believe his mom was Juliet?
Yeah, I like the idea of Ben and Rousseau :) Then he gets to be Alex's step-dad.
Someone has probably posted this question and it was answered somewhere in the 267 comments...I read through most of them over the last couple of days but must have missed it....When Flocke had Desmond at the well, why didn't he just turn into Smokey and kill him? Why take a chance that he would survive after tossing him down the well?
@Joan Crawford: Big-brimmed sensible ladyish hats with bands and or ribbons, hanging on on hooks, surrounding mirrors. See them just inside the front door after Jack lets himself into David's mother's (easier to say Juliet's) house with the key under the bunny and "Previously On Lost..." see them in the background in Juliet's book club meeting. I know because I kept looking for books and bookcases to place Nikki's product.
@Joan Crawford: Big-brimmed sensible ladyish hats with bands and or ribbons, hanging on on hooks, surrounding mirrors. See them just inside the front door after Jack lets himself into David's mother's (easier to say Juliet's) house with the key under the bunny and "Previously On Lost..." see them in the background in Juliet's book club meeting. I know because I kept looking for books and bookcases to place Nikki's product.
TM Lawrence: Sun and Jin just need to get their Wonder Twin rings into physical contact and assume the form of insulated smoke-eating dragon and shape of zero-Kelvin refrigerator.
Question: In this scenario, who is Gleek? Zoe? Miles? ;)
@Nikki:
I'm letting out a little thread as I make my way in here, because I think you're trapping me.
There is no such thing as a Gleek. There are poor souls whose television channels are discombobulated whenever they attempt to view Lost: as a result they have perforce adopted a mass delusional construct in which they perceive the programming as fresh, the dialog as witty, and the songs as enjoyable, all the while failing to recognize the actual show as a synthetic hybrid of the Teletubbies and the Wiggles.
Zoe is clearly a disingenuous brunette woman with glasses who is the co-runner of an old conservative warmonger in a conservative candidacy to take over the most powerful piece of land on the planet. She is in fact not Liz Lemon, but Tina Fey does play her on late night comedic TV.
Miles is a reluctant spiritualist whose witticisms are as spiky as a mutant porcupines butt -- he's nobody's savior, but fun to have along on the ride for distraction.
I could be wrong on all those, but I feel solid on the middle one.
@TM Lawrence: http://members.shaw.ca/gorillagallery/myweb2/gleek.htm (if the hotlink won't work, just copy and paste)
@Nik: I think it's Frogurt.
VW fbopsyci - holy crap, Blam, help me out with this one!
Relax, Batty. Just remember that a verification word has no Constitutional right to be defined.
(And then I remembered that you live in Australia. D'oh!)
So, like, what do you call your Writ of Law? Nobody ever made me learn about your government in school, so I really don't have a clue. Sorry. Parliament, right? (All this from a pesky VW!)
@Nik & @Batcabbage:
Ahh...got me. Man down in the Saturday morning cartoon labyrinth. Teach me to make Wonder Twin references without brushing up first, and here I thought I was being topical. I thought I'd get called on a technical foul because hello, Jan and Zana are siblings? Eeww, gross!
No takers on the Scrooge thing? Even though the opening to Raiders of the Lost Ark is Scrooge-inspired? Even though he's a globe-trotting, ruthless, vicious industrialist who abuses his own family relations in service of the ethical zeitgeist of the robber baron? Not even considering that his adventures include St Brendan's Isle, fishing trips to Canada, Expeditions to Tralla La (Shambala) and Xanadu? And not even considering that in the Guardians of the Lost Library, Scrooge enriches himself by buying the captains' logs of lost ships in order to chase literally books from the papyri of Alexandria's Egyptian library (The Lighthouse) to the illuminated manuscripts of Venetian renaissance (in Latin, the language of the enlightened), on to Sayid's humanitarian Santo Domingo to Pizarro's Lima (prominent poster in Dr. Benjamin Linus's classroom) to their resting place in New Albion (California's coast = LAX)? No? What if Donald says, annoyed by their literary quest, "Cripes! They're still going on about their stupid library. As if messing with books was as interesting as watching TV!" ? Not even then?
Marebabe: Yes, we are a federal parliamentary democracy, which is not interesting at all. I sought Blam's help because fbopsyci is an interesting looking word, and because Blam is the King of VW, I thought he could come up with a good one. I could probably come up with a lame one. Here, I'll try:
fbopsyci: the part of the human psyche that deals with dancing. Geddit? silent 'f'? 'bop' = 'dance'? 'syci' = 'psyche'? See, told you it would be lame. :)
Hmmm.
Did Hurley stare into a mirror in this episode?
The way the other AU people have all done?
WV: quillycn. The compromise Quinton and Allison came up with when they could't agree on a name for their baby.
I don't think we can assume the island is purgatory. this is a very specific christian idea and I think lost has bigger more universal ideas in play. It might be something like it.
I'm totally loving Jack this season as well. He's had such a great journey and his character's growth process has been something I've felt with him in my reactions. I remember really liking him, then being annoyed by him, then really irritated, and now loving him. I love that he's let go. I don't think this means he won't take a leadership role again, it means his leadership will come from a different place now. A more honest and open place, and he'll be a better leader for it. Yes, he may die soon but maybe what Jack needs to do for the island is something that required this growth.
I loved Hurley and Libby as well. So sweet and touching. I admit I love the love, so these romantic connection episodes are winning me over in a big way.
Oh and someone asked about how Sayid will connect to the island: Shannon!
I've been bereft of 'Net access for most of the past couple days, but while the connection's working I must offer this thought if it's the only thing I do:
What if Hurley left a circle of Jacob Ash around Locke's camp before entering it?!?
Joan: I drove a Tempo in high school called that! "There goes Joan in the Tempo of Doom."
Did they call you Indiana Joan?
TM Lawrence: I thought I'd get called on a technical foul because hello, Jan and Zana are siblings?
Actually, you get called on the technical foul because Zan and Jayna don't use rings, they just bump fists. But I'll let it slide because you flashed me back to Fred and Barney Meet The Thing — in which Fred and Barney (of The Flintstones), sadly, did not actually meet The Thing (of The Fantastic Four, in name and rocky orange appearance only) except in the title sequences. "Thing Ring... Do your thing!"
Batcabbage: I sought Blam's help because fbopsyci is an interesting looking word, and because Blam is the King of VW
No pressure, huh? Hmm... fbopsyci — In an alternate universe both like and unlike our own, the merger of (A) the recording-industry conglomerate founded by the pop trio Hansen, named after its biggest hit, "FBop", and (B) the cable outlet SyCi, recently rebranded from Sci-Fi Channel.
You're welcome.
How lucky is this Island that folks can do things like, say, blow up an old wooden ship full of dynamite without the surrounding jungle going up in flames?
And I promise I didn't bring this up just to say "Only Hugo can prevent forest fires!"
Really, I didn't.
VW: comackin — When two people are mutually into totally sucking face.
On to replies to Nikki's recap!
“It takes a lot of guts to walk up to a stranger and tell him you know him from some bizarro alternate universe.”
Hurley speaks for the fans encore. This was just one of many great lines that I can't wait to hear again whenever I'm able to rewatch the episode online.
Nikki: and the answer to what those friggin’ whispers are.
Yeah. About that...
Teebore: The whispers! Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best. Though I still wonder what triggers them; it isn't like they're ALWAYS whispering. And for awhile there it seemed like they were linked to the Others' appearances, but maybe that's just coincidence.
I don't dislike the explanation so much as, first, like you, Teebore, and others, I have doubts that it's as consistent as one might want, and second, like, well, still others (I've read all the comments now but didn't always make notes), I have problems with just how nonchalantly it was delivered.
Simple explanation, fine, and even straightforward answer, fine, but Hurley's weak, low-key "Wait, I think I know what this is..." almost sounded like the preface to a punch line in a Mel Brooks takeoff on Lost.
And why did Hurley then have to leave the group through some brush into another clearing to talk to Michael? It reminded me of how on Star Trek: The Next Generation an away-team member would often step apart from and turn his/her back on whomever he/she was with before slapping the communicator to talk to the Enterprise — at which point, as the character would stand purposefully and stare at the sky, I would invariably shout (at least in my head) "Shazam!"
The quandary raised by the revelation that the whispers are spirits chained to the Island because they did a baaaaad thing there is, of course, that it fails to explain the presence of spirits of those who died off the Island and yet show up on it, a number of whom we're pretty sure aren't just Smokey, from Richard's wife to, probably, Ben's mother to, perhaps, Kate's horse. I like having the source of the Whispers revealed, but it hasn't actually brought us any closer to whittling down or understanding the various "categories" of ghosts or mimics of same.
Nikki: So the BIG reveal of the episode was that the whispers are actually the ghosts of people who are stuck on the island and are unable to move on to Heaven because of something they did. Which means... THE ISLAND IS A PURGATORY. Not for those on the plane, but it’s a purgatory nonetheless.
And this also says a whole heck of a lot about theology and the afterlife in the world of the series, by the way, not only establishing that there is an afterlife but that the Island is powerful enough to deny certain souls the ability to move on and/or serves as a repository of certain souls at the direction of whomever's in charge of sorting the afterlife out.
VW: rearsxu — The back entrance of Southern Xanadu University.
“How do you break the ice with the smoke monster?”
1. "So... You kill here often?"
2. "Nice body, dude."
3. "Cigarette? Heh-heh-heh."
Nikki: OMGWTF did Desmond just run over John Locke with a frickin’ CAR?!
Technically, no, he ran under him.
Nikki: [W]hy is Miles’ last name Straume?
Uh... 'Cause Widmore, Hawking, Faraday, and Milton were taken?
Nikki: Again, Libby – someone who is dead in the other universe – can see through to the other side, just like Daniel and Charlie.
Great observation that others made, too, and I totally didn't...
Nikki: His “oh, this old piece of wood? Why... I’m just a-gonna whittle this baby until it speaks to me and tells me if I need to make a spear or a tiny wooden ornament of an old lady in a rocking chair that I can put on my mantle” was something Locke would have said.
Or Joan.
VW: mantab — 1. Indentation personified. 2. The #1 best-selling diet cola for dudes. 3. A screwed-up vanity plate for the Batmobile.
Nikki: The great team of Miles and Hurley have been split up for good!
I don't think they were total bosom buddies or Miles wouldn't be surprised that dead people tell Hurley what to do. Was that conversation in the van in "Some Like It Hoth" the only time they compared notes on hearing the departed?
Nikki: Could the John inside of him be coming through and controlling Smokey more than the evil that’s inside him?
Er... And that's why he pushed Desmond down the well?
Nikki: Richard, testing Hugo, tells him that a while ago Jacob told him what the island was, so ask him. So why didn’t Jack or ANYONE jump up and say, “Oh really?? Then WTF is this island??!!”
That was a primo tremendously exciting, suspenseful moment of potential revelation ("No... They wouldn't...") followed by tremendously chain-yanking letdown ("Of course they didn't... But seriously... Everyone's just letting it hang there?"). Although I kinda think that Richard was meeting Hurley's bluff with a bluff in the sense that Jacob never really told him what the Island is.
VW: bousnext — The way the maitre d' at a tacky Halloween-themed restaurant greets folks in line.
Other highlights, besides the great comedic and romantic dialogue mentioned earlier — mostly Hurley's ("Dead people are more reliable than alive people"):
• The moment of realization that we were hearing the voice of Dr. Pierre "The Pseudonym" Chang, by the way. So ticklishly bizarre!
• Libby and Hugo's beach date, complete with blanket.
• Ms. "I've been training my whole life for this" going boom — just for the shock value. (You must've slept though Dynamite 101, honey.) I thought it was kind-of brilliant, then got frustrated upon realizing of how much import her backstory carries since she's met Jacob face-to-face and considered him like a father, then figured, look, there's all sorts of stuff I'm hoping we'll learn but also resigned to being hacked off over our not learning, and Ben's casual but accurate commentary about the Island being done with her was valid storyline-wise.
And how about Hurley getting his first taste of the seduction of speaking for Jacob, only to have his conscience prompt him to come clean with Jack, only to have Jack tell him that he knew already and was prepared to follow Hurley anyway?
VW: jarrebox — A jukebox that only plays Al Jarreau. He's done more than the Moonlighting theme, people.
@Blam: I like having the source of the Whispers revealed, but it hasn't actually brought us any closer to whittling down or understanding the various "categories" of ghosts or mimics of same.
You're definitely right, the whispers are just one of more tool in the show's zombie box. I have a feeling, in the end, we'll be left with several explanations for the appearances of the dead (Smokey mimicry, trapped, whispering souls reaching out to Hurley, etc.) and it'll be left to us to suss out which explanation accounts for which dead person.
Though I think that the dead who constitute the whispers can only be seen by Hurley, meaning Kate's horse and Ben's mom are probably not trapped, whispering souls but something else.
but that the Island is powerful enough to deny certain souls the ability to move on and/or serves as a repository of certain souls at the direction of whomever's in charge of sorting the afterlife out.
I wonder if there isn't some kind of pseudo-scientific explanation for that, like if we view the soul as a form of energy that leaves our bodies when we die, then perhaps the island's unique EM energy prevents that unique energy from "ascending"/rejoining the universal lifeforce/energy field. So that energy ends up hanging around the island, retaining enough of its identity to appear as an apparition to Hurley or effect the physical environment (whispering).
Or maybe it's the reverse, and there is something theologically powerfully about the island, and in trapping souls it's also trapping the soul's energy, creating pockets of weird EM energy all throughout the island.
And how about Hurley getting his first taste of the seduction of speaking for Jacob, only to have his conscience prompt him to come clean with Jack
Oh, I hadn't made that connection, but I like it! In that moment, Hurley was doing what Ben (and presumably, other Others leaders) had done for so long, exploiting his connection to Jacob to get people to do things the speaker, not Jacob, wanted done.
Of course, Hurley being Hurley, he came clean about it pretty quick, and Jack, either because he knew Hurley better or he's smarter than the average Other, saw through the ruse from the get go.
@Blam:
Unless that little baggy of ash has an outside way bigger than its inside (like Mary Poppins' carpetbag), I don't think Hugo could complete a circle around himself, let alone the whole camp.
As far as Hurley's flat expository revelations, don't you think they always come off a tad simplistic and patronizing unless they are mellowed by an immediate contrast in the form of sharp quasi-rejection by Miles? The writers have done such a tremendous job of "show don't tell" that when they tell unimaginatively, it stands out in vivid relief.
I won't make another Wonder Twins reference or play the VW game with this crowd, because I am at play in the field of the Lord ("regonse") ;)
Upon second watch, some sleep and reading 3/4 of your wonderful insights I'm not so much of a hater as I was previously. I have accepted that there are lots of loose ends to tie up and some of the explanations will just have to be made in a lame fashion. And mostly I have a much better 'understanding' of Desmond's actions - that his actions go deeper than face value, that he does seem to have taken on the role of Jacob, of guiding and directing, and that he now has a lot or possibly even total convergence of the two worlds, and that he just knows stuff! That bit of intrigue helps balance out the cheesiness for me! Thanks everybody!
LoVe the idea that forest boy is Jacob rapidly aging after being reborn from the ashes of his fiery death!
**(My apologies - can't give credit to the authors)** Makes 'sense'! MiB was so irritated at Boy and and Boy was loving it!!
Noticed that Libby has something brown on her front tooth during one scene of the beach picnic!
Sun, don't walk behind Jack when he's carrying his rifle military style with the barrel pointed towards your head!
Hurley really is a crappy liar! I love how his eyes shift and roll and scream guilty when he lies about agreeing to follow Richard to the Black Rock and then again when the group agrees to go talk to Locke per Jacob's order!
@TM LAWRENCE -"I too want nothing but a deservedly solid love connection for Mr. Reyes, but Libby's motives now are as suspect as her askew glances were at the hatch laundry or the edge of the cliff (go rewatch them if you don't know what I mean)."
I, too, was so suspect of Libby's motives on the cliff - her look after they kissed screamed a setup to me at the time! But I'd forgotten about it and now I interpret the look as confusion and fear and maybe a little bit of crazy. I believe her story this go around!
And your posts in general - hilarious and poetic!
@TMLAWRENCE and JOAN - Ben and Rousseau would just be the best! And it fits! Ben teaches European history, she's French! Another fun tidbit to wait for!! And I still wanna see Miles' gf - I'm betting on Naomi.
@BLAM - "What if Hurley left a circle of Jacob Ash around Locke's camp before entering it?!?"
OMG!! Effin PeRfeCt!!
There was evidently another big mystery answered that I haven't seen anyone here mention - does or doesn't Jack wear underwear. Well, evidently when he sat down on a rock the band of his Hanes showed over the top of his jeans. My buddy at work has been wondering, and fantasizing, about the answer for six years!! You can add this to your 'solved' list, Nikki!
Blam said: "What if Hurley left a circle of Jacob Ash around Locke's camp before entering it?!?"
Well, Blam...I seriously don't think there's enough of Jacob in that little bitty bag to go around much of anything. On the other hand, Hurley seemed to have SOME sort of plan in mind when he snatched up that bag! You could see some wheels turning in that big fuzzy lovable head of his.
Hmmm...I wonder what he's gonna do?
@Blam: "a Mel Brooks takeoff on Lost."
Now, that's something I'd definitely pay good money to see!
* I fully expect Hurley to throw a hot-pocket at the Man in Black next episode.
* More realistically, I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really hope that Sun gives Claire Charlie's Driveshaft ring at some point. I just recalled the other day that Sun found it in the S5 finale... soooo here's hoping!
Doesn't the last scene of the series have to do with the plane?
The plane is the common denominator of the entire series. It brought them to the island, brought them home in the "Oceanic 6" episode. It brought them back on Ajira. It is what they are looking to fix to get off the island. The plane is a major character of the show.
Their adventures always involved modes of transportation. The Black Rock, the plane, the helicopter, the raft, the boat, the freightor, a camel, a jeep, etc. What else is there? It is about "TIME TRAVEL" get it???
Addtionally, it looks like non-Locke is moving quicker than usual and some old Locke is peeking through. Someone said that Sayid is looking less robotic and his "flat affect" is disappearing. Is the old Sayid in there? I think so. Seeing the tween-Jacob laughing at Locke, I think it is definitely Jacob and he is growing stronger and more confident and that shook non-Locke to the core, made him angry at Desmond for not being afraid and shoved him down the well. Desmond does not look worried at all. I bet Penny somehow saves him as "well"! (Wouldn't that be Penny's first time on the island? Everyone else's true love has been on the island. Even Sawyer, because his love is Kate, not Clementine's mother.
wv: congsted- I am so congsted from Springtime allergies!
@Blam - I am going to do what all the Blam Fangirls (Blamgirls) do when they get individual attention from you:
Eeeeeeee! ;)
@Tiasabita - Ben and Rousseau would just be the best! And it fits! Ben teaches European history, she's French! Another fun tidbit to wait for!! And I still wanna see Miles' gf - I'm betting on Naomi.
You are adorable :D and good guess on the Naomi/Miles thing! I really am still curious about who gave Naomi that bracelet - it will never be answered as it was just a prop to give her character more depth...maybe Miles will give her the bracelet in the AU.
Blam said: "I kinda think that Richard was meeting Hurley's bluff with a bluff in the sense that Jacob never really told him what the Island is."
Well, except that Jacob DID tell Richard that the island is "the cork that's holding all the evil inside the bottle." Maybe that's what he wanted Hurley to say.
"Did anyone know what that Russian book was that Hurley picked up?"
It is Fyodor Dostoevsky’s short novel, Notes From the Underground, in the original Russian.
http://lostandlit.wordpress.com/2010/04/14/wondering-about-the-russian-novel-in-everybody-loves-hugo/
And Tia,
Thanks for clearing up the mystery of whether or not Jack wears underwear! Now, we can all sleep a little easier at night. (LOL)
WV: "teablism" - I'm not in the mood, but it seems like something clever could be done with this one. Anybody else wanna take a stab at it?
*sound of crickets chirping*
@Donna S: "teablism" - either a profound but misspelled belief in tables or a sense of contented joy brought about by theobromine in a hot beverage.
@Donna S: "teablism" - either a profound but misspelled belief in tables or a sense of contented joy brought about by theobromine in a hot beverage.
ok... new poster here... finally broke down and added something to this blog I've read and loved for so long... in thinking about Jacob's ashes... has he died before? Just whose ashes were surrounding the cabin?
LIsa
@Anonymous Lisa who said: "ok... new poster here... finally broke down and added something to this blog I've read and loved for so long... in thinking about Jacob's ashes... has he died before? Just whose ashes were surrounding the cabin?"
I would be remiss if I did not say "Welcome Aboard" cause I am relatively new also.
That is a damn fine question you asked right there! And I'll be waiting just like you will to see if anyone has an answer to that.
@S.M.I.E.R.T. who said:
@Gracie: WV: verfeds. Verifiably given vittles? or people that regulate Verification Word Definitions :)
I like yours better.
Kiki and S. Penguin said: "What didn't work for me?
1) The Anticlimax. Well, we spent Dr. Linus, Ab Aeterno, and the Package gearing up Richard and Illana to lead their team to the Ajira flight, and to have it all fall apart so senselessly just seemed like poor story-telling.
I think you fell into the trap of thinking you know what is suppose to happend only to find out the creators have a different end in mind. I think it had to happen so that whatever comes next can happen. Just another twist. Just when you think you know what is suppose to come next - BOOM - Illana had to go and play with unstalbe dynamite!"
Me: This is either going to be earth shatteringly amazing or just a miss to everybody but me (I've been out of it completely since Wednesday's appt), but here goes: I got the feeling all through the episode that Locke was kinda freakin' out. i.e. his reaction to the kid, his impatience with his "team", Des and the well, just the looks on his face at times.
Anyway, so Ilana is dead, but it never showed anybody bury her. Leaving yet another dead but unburied body behind just like John Locke's. So what happens if Locke sees that opening and jumps in and takes it. He could carry that off with everybody except the people who were there when she died (Hurley, Ben, Frank, Sun, Richard). Does anybody else see that? Does that even make sense?
I think it's possible, although it's not at all what I expected. To spend all this time building her up as Jacob's bodyguard, she feels like he's her father, she's been training for this all her life, and then she just blows herself up? That might be a real quick way to kill off a storyline, but I don't think I'm buying what they're selling just yet.
WV: ingfu. Doggy style?
Sagacious Penguin said:
"@ Gracie:
I suspect the MIB can't harm the candidates, and that the candidates can't kill themselves.
So either:
A) The MIB needs them together so he can convince/trick someone to kill them for him, or so he can convince/trick them into killing themselves
or
B) He actually wants them to leave, and his freedom is possible only if Jacob is dead and all possible future-Jacobs are off-Island
or
C) He does himself actually want to physically leave the Island with them like he told Kate and Sawyer. I kind of doubt this option, but you never know...
Me: All of the above. There are seven candidates left: Jin, Sun, Kate (?), Jack, Sayid (?), Sawyer and Hurley. To some Kate is questionable. To others so is Sayid. MIB cannot kill any of these seven and they cannot kill themselves or each other. But of all the remainders from Ben to Widmore to Zoe to Claire, if MIB can get any of them to kill the candidates for him, they're dead. I'm not sure this applies to Richard. I know he cannot die because he was granted eternal life. With that I don't think he has a killer instinct anymore (for lack of a better term).
MIB's freedom is possible if Jacob and all the candidates are off the island OR DEAD.
And, if he's been held prisoner there all his life, of course, he wants off the island, Plus, if/when he gets off, he can wreck havoc all over the world and not just this little rinky dink island. Picture Smokey on the lose all over the world.
My WV was actually undes. I'll let Nikki take that one. underdes would've been better, but I'm sure Nikki can handle this one.
Got a second one: feart. I could have handled undes, but feart Nikki's reaction if I took it on myself.
I have a thought on why Des is not afraid. Maybe he has NOT seen his own death, but has seen enough of the future to know he can't die soon. For example, maybe he has foreseen the day little Charlie goes off to Kindergarten, and he (Des) know that HE was there for it. Little Charlie is what? About three now, so Des knows he has two years left at least. So he is unafraid. Does that work for anybody?
WV: undevis. To devise a really great plot line and then tear it all apart again.
Lisa(UFN): Why is he still acting so scattered? Get it together Ricardo.
I don't know and didn't like it.
JS: I couldn’t understand why everyone who has seen FLocke so far knows it isn’t Locke but Desmond sees Locke.
I think he was just trying to lull Man in Blocke into a false sense of security.
Fred: Obviously, it isn't romancing Helen that wakened Locke, but meeting with Jack that will waken him to the true reality.
Do ya think they'll smooch?
Sagacious Penguin: Hurley just makes the break from Richard without explanation, and we're left wondering why our characters have just handed themselves over to the most dangerous man on the Island. Where's the thought process and/or rational follow-through here?
I don't like the sudden split from Richard on Hurley's part any more than I like Richard's return to freaking out, but I do think Hurley's mental gears are grinding and his instincts are likely good ones.
Justin Mohareb: Nikki, the Mr. Clucks by the Pyramids isn't that hard to believe. They used to have a KFC there. I think they moved it since then, though.
Do they have a place that sells wraps? (*rimshot*)
TiaSabita: Dez spying on Hurley and Libby over the top of his shades then driving off with that job-well-done smirk was very corny to me.
Me too. And there's never any traffic when the car suddenly pulls out, even though I'm practically bracing for it to get rear-ended.
Convergence: If this boy is little Jacob (re-born), or whoever he is, he has doubled in age in a day. Unlike Richard who didn't age, this boy is aging rapidly. ... Which led loved one and I to another tentative conclusion. The "next Jacob" on the island won't be Jack. It will be ... Jacob. All re-grown up again.
Do you think that Jacob transferred his katra to Ben before he died? That'd be a kick in the head.
Gracie: I can't say if this is true of Locke but this is the second week in a row I've noticed differences in Sayid. One week he's telling Locke that he doesn't feel anything and looks the part. Last week when he snatches up Desmond, there's some brightness to his eyes and almost a kindness in his face. Then about the same thing this week showing there are changes happening to Sayid, in a good way. Locke thinks he's got Sayid, but I'm not too sure.
Sayid may just be coming out the "other side" of the claiming experience; Claire, after all, is clearly emotive.
Gracie:like Blam shooting at Locke and the bullets falling off,
Ahem. That was Bram. 8^)
Nikki: I LOVE how we're all trying to come up with humane explanations for why Desmond would have mown down a guy in a wheelchair.
His name is Desmond Hume. Aren't his actions by definition "Humane"? 8^)
Nikki: Hurley gets a kiss; Locke is slammed with a car. Karma's a bitch.
So's ma kar! Mwaaaaaaahahahahahahaha!!!
humanebean: The Hurt Locke in which a suspected child molester with a Scottish accent turns out to be a consciousness-travelling Course-Corrector bent on vehicular homicide.
No, that'd be The Locke Hurter. (I came up with this weeks ago but may never have posted it here. Great minds...)
Fred: Locke was told he was immaculately conceived
I love the phrase "negative Jesus" — so evocative — and appreciate your thoughtful posts in general, so please understand I mean no disrespect when I point out that "immaculate conception" does not refer to the supposed virgin birth of Jesus but the birth of Mary, whom the Church felt it had to establish as being born without Original Sin.
SonshineMusic: we've decided that Jacob chose these particular people, not because they were special or because they had something in common or were "good" or "right", but because they were difficult and needy and had Super Issues. This way, when MiB killed him, he would have to fight against all of the differing factions and attitudes and problems with the candidates, therefore giving Jacob time to regenerate and grow back to adulthood. *brushes hands off* our work here is done :P
Nice job, gals!
Gillian Whitfield: Agh! Blogger didn't publish my comment!
This happened to me Tuesday night -- it would've been the first comment, too. 8^(
SenexMacdonald: Jack is almost constantly asking Hurley who he is talking to now... LOL
Nurse Brian: I noticed this too and rationalized this as, "Are you talking to my dad yet?"
Wow! I hadn't even thought of that. Good one!
Kiki: warmani - what the fashionable wear to an armed conflict
Ha!
One more thought, if I can get through it... I'm wiped, hence no VW defs, but I wanted to at least post accumulated replies while the 'Net was up.
Watching Hurley drown his sorrows in the alternate timeline reminded me that the AU folks clearly lack something. If they have purpose in productive careers or philanthropy, they don't have love, and vice versa. Desmond and Hurley lacked Penny and Libby; Locke had Helen but was denied the walkabout and all that it meant to him. I had more to say beyond that obvious part, but I'm totally fading and should've stuck with just posting what I'd already written.
@Gracie: Anyway, so Ilana is dead, but it never showed anybody bury her. Leaving yet another dead but unburied body behind just like John Locke's. So what happens if Locke sees that opening and jumps in and takes it. He could carry that off with everybody except the people who were there when she died (Hurley, Ben, Frank, Sun, Richard). Does anybody else see that? Does that even make sense?
Well, but she kind of exploded. That does not leave much back for anyone to bury nor for Smokey to use...
VW: reinsu - a university for horseback riders
VW #2: cellban - what I think they should have in movie theaters
@Blam "One more thought, if I can get through it... I'm wiped, hence no VW defs, but I wanted to at least post accumulated replies while the 'Net was up."
Me: Is it LEGAL on here for Blam to post and NOT leave a WV?
@Blam: that "immaculate conception" does not refer to the supposed virgin birth of Jesus but the birth of Mary, whom the Church felt it had to establish as being born without Original Sin
Huh, didn't know it refered to Mary. Makes sense though, since Christ himself, being God, would naturally be without sin. The Church's logic on this is rather good. If Mary had been human in the normal sense, that is born with Original sin, then like some gene it wuld have been passed to her son. (Uhm, where did the Y chromosome come from?)
Do ya think they'll smooch?
There's been complaints there haven't been any real gay characters in LOST. Tom (aka Mr. Friendly was really a throw away; and Juliet's line was hilarious, but that's all). At last with Locke and Jack and your suggestion, Blam, LOST can rectify such an oversight. Six episodes of Locke and Jack on Hydra island, locked in the cages, eating fishbiscuits, and being watched by a salacious Ben.
There's been suggestions Hurley ciclred Locke's camp with ash. unlikely, but if the volcano goes off, there'd be enough ash to bury MiB. He'd simply be done for. Personally, it would be too much like those disaster movies of the 70s. But knowing Cuse and Lindelhof, they have been channeling a lot of the 70s into LOST.
@Nikki: Hurley gets a kiss; Locke is slammed with a car. Karma's a bitch.
I can only think of the one song we haven't yet mentioned and which makes sense of LOST. Instant Karma's gonna get you/gonna knock you right off your feet/Better recognize your brothers/Everyone you meet. Why in the world are we here/ Surely not to live in pain and fear/ Why in the world are you there/ When you're everywhere/ Come and get your share. Need anymore be said about what Darlton are up to in LOST. Yeah, we all shine on.
By the by, Stephen King used Lennon's Instant Karma for the title of his horror book, The Shining.
@Rainier
@Gracie: Anyway, so Ilana is dead, but it never showed anybody bury her. Leaving yet another dead but unburied body behind just like John Locke's. So what happens if Locke sees that opening and jumps in and takes it. He could carry that off with everybody except the people who were there when she died (Hurley, Ben, Frank, Sun, Richard). Does anybody else see that? Does that even make sense?
Well, but she kind of exploded. That does not leave much back for anyone to bury nor for Smokey to use...
And I said but this is the Island!! Doesn't Smokey need like just a scrap of her to transform? Seems to me that if Smoke can put together just a scrap of Ilana, he's got himself a new wardrobe.
@Fred who said: Tom (aka Mr. Friendly was really a throw away; and Juliet's line was hilarious, but that's all).
Please refresh my memory on Juliets line? It's somewhere in here. I just can't grasp it.
@Fred: ...But knowing Cuse and Lindelhof, they have been channeling a lot of the 70s into LOST. ...Need anymore be said about what Darlton are up to in LOST. Yeah, we all shine on.
You’ve got a unique, thought-provoking theory here. Perhaps you can condense it into a 30- second video and send it to CNN: How should 'Lost' end (in 30 seconds or less)? http://www.ireport.com/ir-topic-stories.jspa?topicId=431905&hpt=C2
And as for Mary-the-Immaculate-Conception: (Uhm, where did the Y chromosome come from?)
From the Holy Spirit, so proclaimeth Roman Catholic Doctine. (Genuflect, genuflect. ;})
Word Verf: antsin : 1. Sit still! Keep your pants on.; 2. Quick! Take ‘em off.
@RAD for this: Does anyone else get the feeling Jacob is laughing at MiB? He though it was all so simple:
Step 1: Get Ben to kill Jacob
Step 2: Get off the Island
Now he has to deal with Candidates and their shenanigans. Sawyer's constant "I'm bored, what are we doing?? Let's do something...ANYTHING!!! Let's blow something up, or shoot something, or at least let me walk around shirtless..."
Claire and her constant need for attention "I'm not you favorite anymore, I'm not on the list, and when are we getting my son you promised me we would get my son and now you have Sayid doing your dirty work and he creeps me out I don't like when he's around and why do I have to wait so long to kill Kate YOU NEVER LET ME DO ANYTHING I WANT!!!"
Sayid and his newfound numbness "I'm dead inside and you won't tell me why"
Jin and his love life "I want to go see my woman, I don't care if my leg is oozing puss, I'm leaving. and no, I'm not letting the giant gash on my leg get some air, I taughf myself the English language I'LL DO WHATEVER THE HELL I WANT"
Kate with her flip flopping ways "Why do you need Jack to be here, we've got Sawyer and he's just as good...until Jack gets back and then of course we can just send Sawyer home...until Jack yells at me, and tries to 'keep it real' with me, then I'll need Sawyer's shoulder to cry on...unless he gets all 'I miss Juliet' on me, then I'll be ready for some Jack lovin'..."
And now Jack and Hurley have joined the group and we all know how good they are at being patient and following instructions lol
Maybe this is everybody's way of saying, "DON'T TELL US WHAT WE CAN OR CANNOT DO!!!"
@Zari:(Uhm, where did the Y chromosome come from?)
From the Holy Spirit, so proclaimeth Roman Catholic Doctine. (Genuflect, genuflect. ;})
Oh, Zari, Zari, let us not go down this path. You know what I mean. The Holy Spirit has a genome. Damn, I said it.
But Zari this brings us to Desmond and his falling into the well (at least from a theological perspective). Metaphorically, this is a man being condemned to death--the soul is toppled into Hell. Yet was Desmond's state of not being afraid analagous to not having sinned? In other words, he was wrongly condemned. So island Desmond pays a price. But for whom? I think he pays the price for LA X Desmond. His action of running down Locke is not only criminal (making Desmond a villan) but sinful. Here we have LOST's symbol of the balance, white and black of equal weight. This is why someone like Keamey dies in both worlds: he sins in both, and therefore the balance is to one side. Now, if island Desmond is toppled into Hell, and he is innocent, does he also have precognition as he did in Flashes episode? This would undermine the whole notion of balance. No I lean towards the idea of innocent, and following this Christian analogy, we should probably see Christian come to Desmond in the well and serve as a sort of guide (shades of Dante's inferno).
@Gracie: In Through The Looking Glass Season 3 Episode 22 (see Nikki's book for more info) Juliet and Sawyer have this little dialogue:
Sawyer: So you screwing Jack yet?
Juliet: No, are you?
@Nikki who said: Crap. After posting this I went and paused that scene again and wondered if it might be Dostoevsky. More light reading to be added to my pile of things to do for the book. ;)
Me: When you feel this way, just remember people like me who are counting on you to do the reading for us and get it right! :)
@Fred: @Gracie: In Through The Looking Glass Season 3 Episode 22 (see Nikki's book for more info) Juliet and Sawyer have this little dialogue:
Sawyer: So you screwing Jack yet?
Juliet: No, are you?
Thanks Fred. Don't need to go back to the book, just needed the hint of a reminder. Thanks.
Second or Third time I've thrown this one out there: When was the last time the actual John Locke and Desmond Hume were together?
Anybody?
@humanebean: Good Grief Thank YOU!! for this: @ Gracie - the episode you are trying to recall is Season 5's "The Lie", where Ben goes to Simon's Butcher Shop and speaks with Jill and asks about the two other 'Others', Gabriel & Jeffrey (who I always assumed were the two guys sent to grab Sayid at his Apartment of Extremely Clean Upended Chef's Knives).
I've been trying to think of those names for days on end. Couldn't even come close to actually placing them in an episode! I had Jan too, which really screwed me up because it IS Jill. And I never caught the connection with the two dudes at Sayid's apartment. Loved the name of said apartment BTW.
BUT when I keep thinking about what you've said there, something doesn't ring true.
We know Gabriel and Jeffrey were in kahoots somehow with Ben, but at that time wasn't Ben trying to gather everyone together to get them back to the island? If so, why would he have sent G and J to the apartment to kill Sayid? That doesn't make sense to me.
@Gracie: When was the last time the actual John Locke and Desmond Hume were together?
Hm... You've got me thinking here. In S4 Des chose Jack's group when Locke took off, and he was on the beach but then joined the crew next to the helicopter when Juliet brought him there. Locke was in New Otherton. I think that might have been the last time Des and Locke were together... by the airplane in the rain when the group split up into Jack and Locke followers, and Desmond stuck with Jack. I remember thinking it rather odd at the time, because Locke represented the group of people who believed Charlie's message -- i.e. that the freighter folk were not there to save them -- a message that DESMOND had delivered. But I guess even the message couldn't overpower Desmond's idea that Locke was more than a little batshit (especially after he'd had that intimate moment with him in the hatch).
Back at Nikki following her post:
Hm... You've got me thinking here.
"In S4 Des chose Jack's group when Locke took off, and he was on the beach but then joined the crew next to the helicopter when Juliet brought him there. Locke was in New Otherton. I think that might have been the last time Des and Locke were together... by the airplane in the rain when the group split up into Jack and Locke followers, and Desmond stuck with Jack. I remember thinking it rather odd at the time, because Locke represented the group of people who believed Charlie's message -- i.e. that the freighter folk were not there to save them -- a message that DESMOND had delivered. But I guess even the message couldn't overpower Desmond's idea that Locke was more than a little batshit (especially after he'd had that intimate moment with him in the hatch)."
Me: And this was the last time they ever saw each other??? WOW!! No wonder I couldn't mentally find it! This was right after Charlie died, and Des and Locke (the real Locke) never saw one another again!?!?! Ok, that deserves some thought. THANKS!!!
WV: pudle. One of those little dogs that makes a better football than an actual companion.
Has everyone seen the list of titles of the remaining shows?
Does anyone want to see it?
Ummm, Nikki, am I even allowed to post that? Cause I really don't know.
CNN Poll: I just hopped over there and took the poll on which character from Lost I am.....They said I was Ben.
WTF? Shoot me now. WAIT! Is that a good thing? I'm confused. There's a SNAFU, for ya.
@Anyone: Does anybody see a very powerful power if we can get Miles back together with Hurley, and they actually start working together? Onc can talk to the dead pretty much anywhere. The other can see and talk to the dead, but he has to wait until they come to him.
@Convergence said...
Gracie: Maybe because you're, umm, using Windows 7? :-) Try something better, like Linux.
Me: Just found this Convergence, and ran your reply past Spouse. Both of us are completely in the dark about Linux, but the subject has come up at work with Spouse and Computer Guy.
From what Spouse is relaying to me from what he UNDERSTOOD Computer Guy to have said, it sounds like Linux is not available in our area, OR we need something to get Linux that is not available. Computer Guy, who fixes computers for the city, wants to change everybody in the city departments over to Linux but because of the lack of something, he can't do that. As a homeowner, we can't either for the same reason. And I hope this makes sense to you because I admittedly have no idea what I'm talking about, and Spouse is just relaying what he thought he understood.
Incidentally, if anyone else wants to chime in on this subject, I'll relay to Spouse.
WV: nifid. The identification number on the knife.
Gracie said...
Kiki and S. Penguin said: "What didn't work for me?
1) The Anticlimax. Well, we spent Dr. Linus, Ab Aeterno, and the Package gearing up Richard and Illana to lead their team to the Ajira flight, and to have it all fall apart so senselessly just seemed like poor story-telling.
Kiki - I think you fell into the trap of thinking you know what is suppose to happend only to find out the creators have a different end in mind. blah blah blah
Me: ---
Anyway, so Ilana is dead, but it never showed anybody bury her. Leaving yet another dead but unburied body behind just like John Locke's.
Kiki -- But she blew up into what I'm thinking is a million little pieces. Not much left to bury. But interesting theory about the dead bodies.
Gracie said -- Seems to me that if Smoke can put together just a scrap of Ilana, he's got himself a new wardrobe.
Hahahaha love that!
TM Lawrence said...
No takers on the Scrooge thing? Even though the opening to Raiders of the Lost Ark is Scrooge-inspired? Even though he's a globe-trotting, ruthless, vicious industrialist who abuses his own family relations in service of the ethical zeitgeist of the robber baron? Not even considering that his adventures include St Brendan's Isle, fishing trips to Canada, Expeditions to Tralla La (Shambala) and Xanadu? And not even considering that in the Guardians of the Lost Library, Scrooge enriches himself by buying the captains' logs of lost ships in order to chase literally books from the papyri of Alexandria's Egyptian library (The Lighthouse) to the illuminated manuscripts of Venetian renaissance (in Latin, the language of the enlightened), on to Sayid's humanitarian Santo Domingo to Pizarro's Lima (prominent poster in Dr. Benjamin Linus's classroom) to their resting place in New Albion (California's coast = LAX)? No? What if Donald says, annoyed by their literary quest, "Cripes! They're still going on about their stupid library. As if messing with books was as interesting as watching TV!" ? Not even then?
I'd take you up on the convo but everything you just listed sounds pretty good to me and I'm just that smart to come back with anything else. I was hoping to lurk on this one.
@Gracie: you are most welcome. Also - I think Ben sent Gabriel & Jeffrey (if indeed it was them) to Sayid's apartment to snag him for roundup and return to the Island. That's why they were toting those tranquilizer dart guns. Again, in the hospital, someone tried to sedate Sayid - perhaps Ben wanted him unconscious before his arrival? It is confusing when I wonder who else may have been involved here - Bram & Ilana's group? I'm not sure ...
@ humanebean said...
@Gracie: you are most welcome. Also - I think Ben sent Gabriel & Jeffrey (if indeed it was them) to Sayid's apartment to snag him for roundup and return to the Island. That's why they were toting those tranquilizer dart guns. Again, in the hospital, someone tried to sedate Sayid - perhaps Ben wanted him unconscious before his arrival? It is confusing when I wonder who else may have been involved here - Bram & Ilana's group? I'm not sure ...
@Me: This doesn't make a bit of sense to me although I know exactly what you're talking about HB. (I hope I can call you that.) If memory serves, as Sayid and Hurley are getting close to the apartment, Sayid notices the broken tape. And I think somebody shoots at him. SO why would Ben send these guys with guns when he knew he needed them alive to get them back to the island? The darts fit in there, but I thought THEY started shooting real guns FIRST.
Feel free to correct me as I am often mistaken. Maybe these people weren't even Jeffrey and Gabriel?
@EVERYONE because I know I'm long overdue to post this. Not to mention that I think it belongs on another post of Nikki's, but I can't find it, and I have to say something or Nikki will think my last two brain cells have vacated the premises for sure.
Regarding a Buffy rewatch: I have been on the phone all over the place trying to locate Buffy DVD's. Or even Buffy VHS. That includes all the local libraries, everything listed under video rental in the phone book, and places like Best Buy to purchase the dang things. I've stopped just shy of sending Spouse to eBay and/or Amazon to look for these cause I know they don't come cheap.
NOBODY HAS THEM!!!!! Nobody! The best I could come up with would be to purchase them and I'm not too sure Spouse would fall over in joyous rapture over that.
Does anybody else have any ideas short of that?
You can watch every Buffy episode online:
HULU: http://www.hulu.com/search?query=Buffy+the+Vampire+Slayer&st=0
TV.com: http://www.tv.com/buffy-the-vampire-slayer/show/10/episode.html?tag=list_header;paginator;All&season=All
You can buy the complete series from these two sources, same price, but Amazon ships free:
http://shop.logotv.com/category/37923487961/1/Buffy-the-Vampire-Slayer.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Buffy-Vampire-Slayer-Collectors-discs/dp/B000AQ68RI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1271715895&sr=8-1
Word Verf: croish : Half-hearted bragging.
@Gracie...if you are a NETFLIX subscriber/member, they have all seven seasons. You are able to
a) rent the actual discs and play them on a DVD player, or b) play them directly from netflix on your computer...they are live streaming. This only helps you if you are a Netflix person. This is how I watch a lot of shows...all 5 seasons of lost are on it, and Arrested Development, etc. Hope this helps
They are also available on Netflix...both disc and live streaming to your computer, Wii or blue-ray. This may end up being a double post. Blogger lost my first post!!!
Blurgh!
Yep...it'll be a double post. so let's make it three!!!
@Lisa and Zari: Thank you. No Go on the Netflix, but I'm looking into Zari's ideas. One seems to want to start at Season 3 and I have to see why that is, and the other won't play anything. So I need to check it out further.
THANKS TO BOTH!!! :)
@Gracie: If you look on Amazon, you can find them used for around $10-15 per season.
VW: karbs: those sneaky little things I try to avoid because of the kalories
Gracie -- Don't be afraid to try ebay too. I know a couple people who buy "on the cheap" there. They have had good luck and the discs are in good condition.
I may just be daft, but do we know what the title of tonites episodes is?
Someone else mentioned the (F)Locke/Claire thing on the promo for this episode and I wonder if we are headed for a bit of a showdown tonite.
Along with Sayid getting Desmond out of the well. No! No! I will not tolerate any other option here!
Found it -- The Last Recruit. What will I do after only 6 more episodes?!?!
Oh, Anonymous: This would be hilarious if you knew my Spouse, and please take my word for it that I mean NO disrespect by what I am about to say.
Gracie -- Don't be afraid to try ebay too. I know a couple people who buy "on the cheap" there. They have had good luck and the discs are in good condition.
Spouse lives and dies by eBay. I doubt if there is anything you know about that website that he hasn't known for years. I think his comment number (or whatever that number is) is like 10,000+, so Spouse knows all about eBay and has been buying and selling there for years.
He also buys and sells for me at times, but I use extreme caution when asking him to do so, because since he is taking care of me on top of a full time job and everything else, his eBay time has been cut in half. If not more. He is a VERY serious eBayer.
Thanks Anyway Though!!
Here are some thoughts on some things before tonight's ep. Just red through 200 comments in the last 2 hours... yay?
-------
Occam's razor people, really! Desmond said "I'm gonna show them". So he's showing Locke something, Locke will see something.
We'll have confirmation tonight of Locke's accident, but if we go by love/death causing see throughs, there is no possible 'love' option to force Locke to see his island life, he never encountered real love on the island, barely even off island. This leaves a death situation, remember that Charlie had 'died' on the plane, so it has to be a big event!
The island is not purgatory. The actual explanation is about those who died on the island and cannot move on because of what they did. The island is only 'purgatory' for those who died there!
-------
Replies
Gracie:
-Locke being dead: agreed, Dead Is Dead, he could appear as a ghost to
Hurley
-Nikki&Paulo: we won't appear, as confirmed by Darlton
-Jill, Gabriel, Jeffrey and the man who built the Lampost will not be answered, sorry to spoil it, but I don't want you to be disappointed when it (does not) happens.
CBP68:
-Wonka: has nothing to do with the ep. It's promo department (latest podcast) who just fits some music over some video. They thought the show was getting crazy intense and used that song.
DonnaS:
-We did hear whispers when Christian appeared on the freighter. More to come!
Jennifer (4/14/10 6:00 PM):
- Maybe it's intended as a different boy, but it's the same actor!
humanebean:
-Ditto on those three years. keep in mind that Claire was also NOT time jumping, as evidenced by Justin and Aldo's discussion (or lack thereof)
@Benny: Not that I doubt you, but where did you hear about Jill et al and the lamp post builder not getting explained?
Just curious; I listen to the Darlton podcasts and somehow missed those discussions.
Hmmmmmm.... I thought I heard it in those podcasts. Maybe something in the Geronimo Jack's Beard ones... but that would be odd.
I definitely know they said they won't answer everything. This week they said only the big questions would be answered.
I can't remember exactly where I heard it, so maybe I'm projecting.
I personally don't see why they would spend time answering them!
@Benny: This week they said only the big questions would be answered.
Yeah, I caught this week's podcast and heard that as well.
My only issue with it is that "big" is such a relative term. Their "big" questions might not be ours, or something we assume is a big question isn't for them.
For example, I feel like there's still a lot to learn about the Others, and to me, the Others ARE a big question. But I get the feeling we won't be learning anything more about them.
I'm not one of those people that needs every minor question addressed, and I'm perfectly fine connecting dots and drawing some conclusions, but here's what's starting to bug me out some of the minor questions that will go unanswered.
Let's take the Lamp Post builder for an example. Most can agree, I think, that's a minor question; it doesn't affect the main characters, it has no bearing on the show's theme or the resolution of its major plot lines.
However, by not answering it, it makes me wonder why they even made it a question in the first place. Why not just have Eloise say "Dharma built this station to locate the island"? B
y writing it the way they did, they suggested there was a mystery behind who build the station, and by introducing that mystery, they also implied, intentionally or not, that there would be an answer to it at some point.
Now, it's become clear there will be no answer to that mystery, which further clarifies the real reason the dialogue was written that way: not because the identity of the lamp post builder is important, but because the producers wanted us to THINK it was important. It was mystery for the sake of mystery, and that sits wrong with me.
At that late point in the game, knowing full well how many episodes they had left in which to parse the story out, they shouldn't have been introducing new mysteries they had no intention of answering (or mysteries where they figured "we'll answer it if we have time; they knew EXACTLY how much time they'll have!)
To me, that becomes as bad as the Bentham business; why did everyone call Locke Bentham despite him never really using that alias? Because the writers wanted to keep his identity a secret. Which is a perfectly legit answer, but one which seems to undermine the narrative integrity of the show.
Mysteries for the sake of mysteries, introduced with no intention of ever being answered, have the same effect on the narrative, as far as I'm concerned.
Questions with answers peppered throughout the show, left for us to connect at the end, are fine by me; I'm just getting a little irritated at the mysteries which, it's becoming more clear, were introduced with no intention of every getting answered, introduced just to maintain an aura of mystery and to keep us talking.
After all, there's plenty to discuss without interjecting what is, inevitably, a non issue like "who built the lamp post station"?
Sorry to go off on a rant there, Benny. That wasn't directed at you, at all. Just something that's been nagging me recently, and the discussion brought it out.
I'm really not a person who needs EVERYTHING answered to be happy; I'm thoroughly enjoying this season, and I'm more concerned with seeing where our characters end up than in what answers await us.
I just don't like the way some of these unanswered questions muck around with the integrity of the overall narrative.
Word to your mother, Teebore.
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